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Perspectives: The Middle East’s new economy
806 Plays11 days ago
Areeb Pasha and Khaled Alfakesh, the respective CFOs of fast-growth, consumer-focused tech firms in the Middle East, Dubizzle and Talabat, join Samer Deghali, Co-Head of Capital Markets and Advisory, MENAT, HSBC in this video podcast.
They discuss their growth stories (including Talabat’s experience post-IPO and Dubizzle’s acquisition strategy), how they are adapting to changing consumer needs, the UAE real estate market, and their priorities ahead. They also share their advice for other businesses looking to expand in the UAE.
Watch or listen to find out more.
This episode was recorded on the sidelines of the HSBC Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) Exchanges Conference in London on 18 June 2025. Read more about the GCC conference here https://www.business.hsbc.com/en-gb/campaigns/hsbc-gulf-cooperation-council-conference-gcc
Disclaimer: Views of external guest speakers do not represent those of HSBC.
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Transcript
Introduction to HSBC Global Viewpoint podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to HSBC Global Viewpoint, the podcast series that brings together business leaders and industry experts to explore the latest global insights, trends, and opportunities.
00:00:13
Speaker
Make sure you're subscribed to stay up to date with new episodes. Thanks for listening, and now onto today's show.
New economy in the UAE discussion
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Perspectives podcast series at the HSBC's GCC Conference 2025. My name is Samr Dagheli. I co-head the Capital Markets and Advisory Business in the Minat region.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm joined today by Khaled Al-Fakish, CFO of Talabat, as well as Arib Pasha, CFO of Dubizil. We're here today to discuss the new economy in the UAE.
Talabat's business success and strategy
00:00:43
Speaker
particular focus around the technology sector.
00:00:46
Speaker
Khaled and Arib, welcome. If I can start with a question to you Khaled, can you tell us please more about Talabat and the post IPO journey? Sure. First of all, thanks for having me. Talabat is ah the largest in the media now when it comes to online food ordering and grocery business.
00:01:02
Speaker
It's been the business since 24, 21 years so far. ah I joined as a nine years ago. and Believe me, I had a black hair at that time. we We operate in eight markets, all GCC countries, with the exception of Saudi. We are also in Egypt and Jordan and and Iraq.
00:01:19
Speaker
ah We serve roughly seven million customers on
Dubizil's focus and acquisitions
00:01:21
Speaker
a monthly basis. so We were lucky to have the largest IPO in 2024 in GCC and also the largest tech IPO in the world. I think that was inspired by also being in Dubai.
00:01:32
Speaker
So if you want to do an IPO, you have to do something special. So far, we are six months already now in the journey. It's been amazing. We are here already in London and as you can imagine, spend lots of of time meeting investors, making sure that you continue providing color and understanding on the equity story that we basically laid out through the IPO process and also make sure that we continue explaining what is the strategy, what's the result, etc.
00:01:57
Speaker
Amazing. Arib, you're a CFO of another fast growth company. Can you please tell us more about Dubizil and as well the growth and acquisition strategy
Changing consumer behaviors and online commerce innovations
00:02:06
Speaker
of Dubizil? Sure. um Again, thank you for hosting us.
00:02:10
Speaker
I am a Talabat customer. I am a Dubizil customer. I've been with Dubizil for five years, so the hairs started to turn gray, but maybe in another four years, and it'll be more gray.
00:02:21
Speaker
So Dubizil, basically, we're Dubizil group. um We operate in the GCC market. ah We operate two main brands. One is Bayouth, which is focused on the real estate sector. And we call it like a vertical. And then we have Dubizzle, which is a horizontal platform, which serves autos, um goods, services, pretty much everything. So if you're looking for a furniture item, you can go to Dubizzle. If you're looking to sell a phone, you can come to Dubizzle.
00:02:46
Speaker
um In addition to that, we kind of focus on the GCC market. um Our two core main markets are the UAE, and then KSA is the other key market for us where we've started investing more recently.
00:02:57
Speaker
um We have a very scalable tech stack, which we roll out to any GCC country that we want to. ah This is very centralized, and depending on the local requirements of a particular geography, we can tailor it or tweak it fairly quickly and launch or access the market quite quickly.
00:03:13
Speaker
um and at a very quick pace. um In addition to that, we serve about 50 million, or host about 50 million sessions on our platforms on a monthly basis. This is unique traffic coming to our platforms.
00:03:27
Speaker
um And in addition to that, we're serving the agencies and the dealer markets specifically in the UAE and in the KSA market as well. So overall, I think we're in a very exciting stage um in in our growth.
00:03:41
Speaker
um We see a lot of further growth opportunities both in KSA and in the UAE. um We look to acquire companies as well, so we build in in organic growth in addition to the organic growth that we have.
Enhancing consumer engagement through personalization
00:03:52
Speaker
More recently, we've completed the acquisitions of two other platforms. One's called Drive Arabia and one's called Property Monitor. And when we're looking to um acquire businesses, we look at companies that can add to our current value chain. If I look at Talabat and Dubizil today, both of you are obviously major tech players, but as well both of you do speak to a lot of consumers in the UAE economy.
00:04:18
Speaker
How do you see um the consumer behavior is changing and what are you doing about it? Maybe I'll start with you, Khadr. I think first of all i think we are lucky also we are in MENA region, I would say in general, of course we are lucky to be also in UAE.
00:04:32
Speaker
I think in specific on Talabat, what we've seen in terms of the consumer behavior and what's changing is probably two things. One, my generation is fading out and we've seen this new generation is coming in.
00:04:43
Speaker
So we have a very small percentage of our customers, so probably less than 0.2, 0.3% of the customers. is basically people who places 120, 130, or 150 orders a month on Tala. So they transact like almost every day once or twice or three times, right? yeah And this is basically, if you look at the persona of those of those customers is really young, 18 maybe 25, 26 years old, right?
00:05:08
Speaker
and it's fascinating because it is ingrained in their in their brain nowadays that if you need something you need it now you need it instantly it's not like where grocery shopping becomes like a family out outage or you go with a family outside and you enjoy grocery believe me now if i take my kids out they don't they don't really love it so you've seen this change ah in general and in specific on the grocery side.
00:05:30
Speaker
So similar to how food transitioned from being offline or via telephones and into mobile, we've seen now in the grocery business is the same. So if you look at the at our grocery business on the app is quite large, it's roughly $2.5 billion dollars if we include also Instashop, which we acquired lately.
00:05:50
Speaker
But that is probably 2 to 3% of the offline market only. And if you look, for example, the numbers that the listed retailers share, you will see that they are growing at probably at a low single digit, but their online share is is growing at 70, 80 or 90 percent. right yeah So this shows you now we are at this inflection point where customers and basically the share of wallet on the grocery side is switching to ah to basically to online.
UAE's business-friendly environment and its appeal
00:06:15
Speaker
So this is this is the biggest, I would say, two two behaviors that that we've seen. And of course, with that becomes where you can add value in the customer journey. with the more you the more The more value, the more ah reasons you create for customers to come to your app, the more the customers become sticky.
00:06:33
Speaker
So in fact, for example, it's very interesting when we you look at the data. If you are a food-only customer on Talabot, if you place only food orders, on average, let's say you do three, four orders a month, The moment you switch to become multi-vertical, so you transact food and you transact grocery and retail, your frequency, your activity on the app, it triples. You go from like four orders to 12 or 13 orders a month.
00:06:56
Speaker
And this increase does not come on the grocery side only, but comes also on food. So the app becomes more sticky. And I would assume it's the same probably for Dubizil. The more reasons, the more vertical you would provide for consumers, the more the more you would see them that they they they transact and they engage with you.
00:07:12
Speaker
I think that holds true for our platform as well. We are a slightly different business model, but just on that point, um you know a customer comes to our website maybe looking for a car. Let's say somebody from the UK is moving to the UAE. They'll look for a car, then they might be looking for furniture, they might be looking for a property to rent.
00:07:32
Speaker
If they have the money they might be looking to buy. So you know there's a network effect that's created within within our platform and the customers are looking at various things when they're searching through the platforms that we have.
00:07:44
Speaker
In terms of um consumer behavior for our business model, um what we see is that the users are looking for more and more information. and They want everything to be a little more transparent and the way we tailor to that is we continue to upgrade our our tech offerings.
00:08:01
Speaker
For example, you know we have a facility or an option on our website um which can give you a true estimate. So you can go in, select a property um in a particular area, click through a few buttons and it'll give you an estimate of what the value of that property is.
00:08:18
Speaker
In addition to that, consumers we see are also looking for efficiency. So if again you've moved to Dubai, you can go to our app and use a functionality called Search 2.0.
00:08:29
Speaker
um You can put in the coordinates of where your office is or potentially is going to be. Where are you going to again send your kids to school? And based on that, you can triangulate the information and you know the website will tell you this is the best place for you to rent or buy an apartment or a villa based on your exact requirement, whether it's a three bed, um how many bathrooms are you looking for, et cetera, cetera.
00:08:52
Speaker
um So again, customers are getting smarter and smarter. I think it's in line with the trend that you're seeing, you know, as the users are more younger, they are more tech savvy, they want more transparency, um and they want to do things in a more and more efficient manner.
00:09:07
Speaker
So on the tech side, we have to continue to cater to that and continue to develop our tech tech stack to meet their
UAE real estate market outlook
00:09:13
Speaker
needs. but That's actually very interesting, maybe just to add, because It might sound a bit controversial, but we we really don't believe in the super app rather than probably what you've explained exactly. Because if you have the customers, doesn't mean that you own them.
00:09:24
Speaker
You need to provide them with value. You need to create like more adjacent verticals for them to transact with you. So you will not see us, for example, getting into selling cars on Talabat because we don't have the right to play. We don't have the right to win.
00:09:36
Speaker
And that's why we, for example, ride hailing, we partnered with Bolt, right? Because it's good to to provide this value for customers, but it's something that we cannot operate ourselves. So we do it through partnerships. So if you are a subscriber on Talabat, for example, you enjoy benefits of ah discounts on Bolt.
00:09:53
Speaker
And it's similar to what you mentioned, when you kind of fact acquire the customers when they need probably a car or they need a house, and then you build on that journey, right? we we We see the same and this is where we believe we are getting into grocery, we are getting into retail, we launched the post-paid feature which is in line with this. So for example, what we realized is that it was very interesting if you look at the ah the ordering behavior of the customers in the week of salaries, usually our consumers start to transact slightly more on Talabat.
00:10:23
Speaker
And you will be surprised that still large percentage of the orders is placed with debit cards, not with credit cards. It gives kind of an indication that access to formal credit is not that easy. So we launched the postpaid feature, which is basically a deferred payment. So we'll give ah a minor credit, $50, $100, and you pay after 30 days. And what we've seen really, really good amount of adoption to that. So to your point, it's very important to look at this what customers need. Do you have the right to play? you have the right to win? yeah To provide the service or not?
00:10:53
Speaker
it's It's amazing. I heard you saying tailoring needs. I heard you saying acquisition of customers. As you said, you don't own the customers, but you really have a lot of data about their consumer habits and you can suggest products to them.
00:11:07
Speaker
The UAE has become pretty much a center for global innovation and technology, but as well as a center of a magnet for entrepreneurs to come to the UAE.
00:11:17
Speaker
What's your advice to the entrepreneurs in the coming to the UAE? Maybe we start with you,
Talabat's data-driven approach for consumer engagement
00:11:23
Speaker
Khaled. I think what is really unique about UAE in general and maybe Dubai in specific is how governments are really pro-business and the way they look at regulation, legislation, is really in a mindset of allowing businesses to thrive and grow. And and something really fascinating. You don't see this often across across the markets.
00:11:42
Speaker
Secondly, of course, access to talent extremely important, and specifically specifically was speaking about tech. So I think the fact that we have our headquarters in Dubai allows us to really scale our tech capability. We have roughly today, I think around 500 engineers between Dubai and Egypt. The vast majority of them is Dubai, right?
00:12:02
Speaker
And this allows us to really tap into a large pool of talent. there is You can see this migration of talents that is coming to the region that they want to to to live in Dubai. And I think probably you would see them from ah ah from your side as well.
00:12:16
Speaker
Definitely they need to buy cars, they need to lease or buy properties, etc. Also, I think what is really unique is the diversification you see.
00:12:27
Speaker
So we have more than 70 nationalities across the organization. And this is really powerful because it gives it gives you lots of perspective. You get people like really from across the globe with different mindsets and with different perspectives. And this really helps you in in building something unique for the consumers and that caters for 200 probably nationalities that he lives in Dubai.
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah, just building on that, like a lot of the traffic that we get um on our applications is not from the UAE. um In fact, what we've seen is that maybe in 2022, the percentage of traffic that we were getting on our platforms from the UAE was higher.
00:13:03
Speaker
And then in more recent months, we've seen that a lot of international traffic is coming in. it's It's a very easy place to do business. um The regulation is very, very helpful.
00:13:13
Speaker
um The government will understand your needs and cater to those needs. Just to give you an example to make the real estate industry more transparent, um the DLD or the Dubai Land Department issues a specific code and without the issuance of this code you cannot list a property online. yeah Which basically means that any listing that you see on a platform like ours is true, it's real.
00:13:37
Speaker
And you're not dealing with spam or listings that are not you know real. So the regulation really, really helps on that front. um And then it's supplemented by the infrastructure that's available, both the hard infrastructure and then, as you mentioned, the talent pool is available within the region that you can tap into.
00:13:56
Speaker
um So I think it's an excellent destination for any entrepreneurs. Arib, one of your key verticals is obviously in terms of products exposure is the real estate market. And you're kindly contributing as well to a panel today about the subject of the GCC conference.
00:14:09
Speaker
What's your view about the UAE real estate market?
Benefits of doing business in UAE
00:14:13
Speaker
you know How do we see the growth going going from here? yeah I think that's a very interesting question and it's very, very hard to predict the future. But I think my view is super positive.
00:14:22
Speaker
um And there are a few reasons for that. I think you have to understand the fundamentals of um of the UAE, the country itself. um it's it's It's a tech destination. It's a talent hub.
00:14:34
Speaker
It's a logistics hub. um You can travel in and out of Dubai very, very easily. So, you know, communicating to other parts of the world is super easy. On top of that, you have the infrastructure available. If you're driving around Dubai, um you know, roads are, you know, really good. There are a few traffic jams that we can debate about, but I think it's a good thing.
00:14:53
Speaker
um And then finally, if you look at the real estate prices in in the UAE, they're still cheaper than other big cities across the world. know, the London's New York, Hong Kong, Singapore.
00:15:04
Speaker
um So Dubai um in the UAE has established itself as is a key destination. It's a real option for people to live in. It's safe, it's secure. You've got good schooling.
00:15:15
Speaker
So the underlying fundamentals are absolutely sound and great. And based on that, um I think in the future, the volumes will continue to grow. um The prices can vary, but specifically in the villa sector, um we feel that there's still an under supply. You can get different views on supply and demand, but I think you know those prices will continue to go up.
00:15:35
Speaker
um So overall, in terms of the total transaction volume that we'll see in the real estate sector, and then also the pricing, and one times the other, I think the overall transactional value will will continue to grow.
00:15:47
Speaker
um By what percentage is anyone's guess. um But overall, I think it's it's it's it's the place to be. um mean, it's fair to say that the days of booms and busts in real estate market are no longer there.
00:15:59
Speaker
There must be a trend and a progressive trend. yeah And clearly with the amount of data that you have, you can see probably the buildup of that trend building up on the platform. So I suspect you're not seeing any weakness in the market coming in the in the short term. I mean, i can talk about the historical data that we see and and yeah, i mean, ah the transaction value in April was up, I think, 95% against the same month last year.
00:16:25
Speaker
It was up by 30% against March. amazing um Yet to get the data for May, but you know those numbers are are unbelievable. um And I think, and again, I'll get to the underlying factor of what the UAE is offering.
00:16:38
Speaker
And based on that, I think everything looks positive. We... um you know We also get ah details of where the traffic is coming from. So a lot of the people a lot of the traffic that we're getting is is from the UK, Germany, Italy, so covering Europe.
00:16:54
Speaker
We get a lot of traffic from Africa, the likes of Egypt. You get a lot of traffic from um Asia, Pakistan, India. um you know all the fear out all the way out to Australia.
00:17:04
Speaker
So when you look at the traffic trends on the platform, you realize that you know it's it's really a popular destination. and That's very interesting, and especially because the more properties you sell, the more people need to eat on Talabat. So that's the point. Absolutely. So yeah, it's... Khaled, de you spoke about many initiatives and many, many products that you're trying to develop on the platform. How
Investing in human capital for innovation
00:17:24
Speaker
how are you keeping pace with technology and what how are you using it to develop new products at at the Taliban platform?
00:17:31
Speaker
So it's mainly, to be honest, it's mainly about how can we monetize the data without selling a data, right? How can we really use the data? So, for example, similar to what Arib was mentioning, if you look at the data from the consumer side, but also from the merchant or the partner side. So today, for example, we're really focusing on two things, one, to make the app personalized, like really a high level of personalization. So if you open the Talabat app, vertically or horizontally, any swim lane you would see it is actually personalized to your needs, right?
00:18:01
Speaker
For example, if you, from a couple of orders, we would know that, okay, if Samir or Khalid is a pizza lover, right? So then this would reflect on your search algorithm.
00:18:12
Speaker
This will reflect on the filter on the cuisine, that wherever you go to the filter, you'd see first pizza. And we have enough depth and breadth of brands and and promotions and offers that caters for you in this particular area.
00:18:26
Speaker
So all of this data can be used for the restaurant's partners. So instead of a pizza place to give, for example, a generic discount of 50% to the three of us, We also said, don't do this because Samir most likely would transact with you. Don't give him the 50% discount.
00:18:41
Speaker
Why don't you give 60% discount to Khaled and Arib that is much better for for you as a restaurant because your return on ad spend is much more because the likelihood of conversion is is higher, right?
00:18:53
Speaker
So really the focus on personalization and data. Same with, for example, for the postpaid product. I often get the same question. Okay, you give $50 or $100 or $150 for your customers to allow them to transact and then pay after 30 days.
00:19:09
Speaker
We don't charge any fee. if they If there's a late payment, we don't charge a fee. If they don't pay us, we allow them to transact on the app, etc. So why are we doing this, right? I would say we do it because it's really good ah feature for the customers and food becomes a commodity, you need to provide more value for the customers.
00:19:27
Speaker
But the main reason is that our default rate is very low, right? And we've seen that the customers who use this feature, their frequency increases by 15%, right And the main reason that the default rate is low is that we know the customers very well.
00:19:42
Speaker
So we know what, for example, similar to what you mentioned about the demographic, we know where you live in the city. So based on that, we have an idea of your credit worthiness. As a banker, you would yeah we definitely appreciate that. So we know what device do you have. Is it an iOS or an Android or is it a latest iOS device? If you transact with HSBC, which card, which tier?
00:20:03
Speaker
Right. And you've seen this correlation between the personas of customers and their likelihood of repayment. Customers who places healthy or let's say who orders healthy food during the day, their likelihood of repayment is high compared to someone order junk food at night.
00:20:20
Speaker
That's the data, right? So the focus is how can we keep pace on all this technology? How can we make sure that we have enough data? how can we sure How can we make sure that our data scientists really use the latest technology, especially on AI, to enrich the customer journey, is to enrich the services we provide for customers and
Reflecting on ecosystems and customer engagement
00:20:38
Speaker
partners?
00:20:38
Speaker
You should partner with banks with this data. That's the plan. Assessment of credit worthiness using it. Amazing. i'll I'll ask one last question and probably I'll start with you, Ari. What do you see as the most significant investment opportunity in the Gulf and in your line of business?
00:20:56
Speaker
ah It's ah not an easy one to answer. I think there's so many opportunities, but I think I'll stick with the the talent that you can find in the region. I think ah you had a question on entrepreneurs, um you know whether they should come to the region, but I think and the kind of talent that you can find in the market is is unbelievable. A lot of great minds are moving from all parts of the world to the UAE, and you get access to some amazing people.
00:21:23
Speaker
And, you know, one of the things that we really, really focus on as as a company is getting the right people in, getting motivated people in. So if you invest in the right talent, I think you've secured yourself for the next few years because that talent is going to drive innovation.
00:21:40
Speaker
It's going to you know drive your growth. So I think and and people will mention, you know, investing in. You know, AI and data, that's us all. I love your answer, by the way. But I think it's it's the people at the core. Like, um I think intelligence for me will always be human.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yeah. So invest in the human capital and you can build something amazing in the region, I think. I love your answer. and As a technology company, people would expect you're going to invest in yeah in further technology or expanding.
00:22:09
Speaker
That'll happen in any case. Investing in humans is amazing. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more because the biggest assets you have is actually your team, your people. Especially when you are a tech company, you don't have really tangible assets. You really have your people.
00:22:23
Speaker
So I think i would I would definitely agree with that. And also I would say focus is very important because there's plenty of opportunities in the region that we are in. And extremely important to focus and and make sure that your investments is really within your strategy.
00:22:36
Speaker
So for example, if you look at us, yes, we are doing a lot. But in fact, it's it's mainly focused around three things, right? want to make sure that we have the largest selection. Being a technology player, want to make sure that the content we have is basically all the cuisines, the restaurants, the grocery SKUs that we have is the largest. So we we we focus a lot on that.
00:22:57
Speaker
Second is on experience. want make sure that we have the largest fleets, the most efficient fleet, and we have the reliable service. And third is basically affordability. and make sure that we provide value for customers when they come to our platform.
00:23:09
Speaker
And the last one is how can we create an ecosystem around this? How can we make sure that we create an adjacent kind of features and verticals to make sure that customers are sticky within the app? So I think investing in people and making sure that those people are actually very focused because you will get lots of ideas and especially because of this talent and the pool that you have.
00:23:30
Speaker
There's plenty of ideas. There are plenty of opportunities. It's very important to stay focused. I'll just pick one word that I really liked is, you know, it's about creating that ecosystem. yeah And if you can get that or mix right, um you know, it'll just kind of, it's like, it'll have like a snowballing effect, um both on the numbers and in terms of your brand reputation in the market.
00:23:51
Speaker
Absolutely. Khaled and Areeb, thank you very much. really enjoyed our chat today. Likewise. And I look forward to keep discussing with you how we can help you further. you so much. And keeping using our platforms, Ray. Of course. I'm a key customer for both of you. Buy properties. I've sold cars and I bought houses. Or sell your car.
00:24:09
Speaker
Thank you very much. It's brilliant. Thank you. Thank you for joining us at HSBC Global Viewpoint. We hope you enjoyed the discussion. Make sure you're subscribed to stay up to date with new episodes.