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Episode 424: Things went from bad to unwatchable
71 Plays2 years ago
Coming out of a three-week break in which they presumably worked on tactics, got rejuvenated were hoping to start the stretch run off strong, the Sounders instead turned in one of their worst performances of the season, a 2-0 loss at home to Atlanta United.
The first half was especially bad with the Sounders surrendering 70% of possession and getting run off the pitch at times.
Jeremiah and Aaron discuss where we go from here.
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Transcript
Introduction & Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Here we go. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS co-pointers! Here come three games through the middle to crowd it! The vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations.
00:01:04
Speaker
Seattle Sounders the greatest MLS team in history This is a tiny doll
Episode Introduction & Sounders' Performance
00:01:34
Speaker
Is that why you young people call twerking?
00:01:38
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Fullpool Wines, Watson's Counter, and our new subscribers. This is episode 424, and we're recording on Tuesday, August 22nd, 2023. I'm your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me as usual is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and of course, our producer, Lickit.
00:01:56
Speaker
Well, coming out of a three week break in which the presumably worked on tactics got rejuvenated and were hoping to start the stretch run off strong, the Sounders instead turned in one of their worst performances of the season, a 2-0 loss at home to Atlanta United. The first half was especially bad, with the Sounders surrounding 70% of possession and getting run off the pitch at times. The second half was only better by comparison.
00:02:18
Speaker
All that leaves me about as concerned as I have been about the prospects of this team.
Analyzing Sounders vs. Atlanta United: What Went Wrong?
00:02:25
Speaker
Aaron, what did you make of it? Oh, I think they say you're supposed to make chicken salad with it. But you know, I wasn't super successful. And that I was I mean, I was as mad after that game as I've been in years, I think after a Sounders game. I and I think it's it
00:02:46
Speaker
It was the same stuff, right? I mean, that was sort of the crux of it for me is that you had three weeks. We heard a lot about, this is a veteran team. There's plenty of talent on this team. This team still has plenty of talent to win the league. You know, we've been, we think we've identified like some things we need to work on. We're going to come out sharp.
00:03:07
Speaker
And they didn't, they came, they played at home against a team that had just as long of a layoff, just as, so they didn't have the excuse of like, well, you know, Atlanta went deeper. So they were a little sharper. All the normal excuses, like, and I, and I think that a lot of their bad performances here, you can fairly chalk up to short rest or tough road game, or they're missing a bunch of starters. None of that applied. Yeah.
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, Atlanta has not been a good team this year. So it's not like this was a juggernaut coming in there. I mean, Atlanta, I think, has been kind of similar to the Sounders, where there's a team with a lot of talent who just haven't been able to put it all together.
00:03:51
Speaker
And it looked like Atlanta figured something out over the break. And it looked like the Sounders, if anything, got worse. Things that they had done well all year, even in poor games, even in games that had been frustrating or what have you, they were not executing. The second half was nominally better. The possession was a little bit more even. There were more chances created.
00:04:14
Speaker
But a lot of that is because Atlanta just didn't have to do anything and they kind of knew they didn't have to do anything. The Sounders were just completely toothless. And you know, it's one of those game state things, right? Where if you're leading 2-0 at halftime on the road,
00:04:30
Speaker
you're probably just going to kind of chill out and seed some possession. And considering that Atlanta did that and the Sounders still, I don't think were able to even come anywhere close to getting even in possession for the game, didn't create a ton of chances, didn't really create any good chances until late when they had sort of like a little bit of a flurry of chances. It was just as bad as that could have possibly gone, I think.
00:05:00
Speaker
I will add, the sounders weren't down 2-0 at half and they were down 1-0. So it was the 63rd minute or whatever that Atlanta scored. But your point stands, I don't think the sounders were threatening and I don't think Atlanta had to feel threatened. The chances that the sounders created were mostly
00:05:19
Speaker
off of, you know, poor plays by Atlanta, like just bad giveaways. Their best chance was that chance that Freddy Montero hit wide somehow, where he basically got passed to him, which is the second time in two games that a Sounders forward has had it passed to him and they've failed to convert the chance. Rui Diaz had a similar situation.
00:05:42
Speaker
against Monterey but yeah this was just they weren't creating much you know there's a there's a stat called expected goals on target and it's not very predictive but I do think it's pretty illustrative in this case the sounders had 0.07 expected goals which just I think really illustrates how
Comparing Past and Present Performances
00:06:06
Speaker
Undangerous. The sounders seemed in this game. Yeah. They had, they had plenty of shots, but it's 16 shots. A lot of shots. Yeah. And I know like one of the most, I think fundamental things about understanding analyzing soccer is that shots on target is not a super meaningful statistic from an addictive perspective perspective, right? Like if, if you've got 30 shots, that tells you a lot more than having four or five shots on target.
00:06:36
Speaker
out of seven or eight. But I think in this game, it tells a pretty accurate story.
00:06:44
Speaker
of what happened in the game. The Sounders just, they had to take a lot of speculative shots. They just were not breaking down Atlanta at all. And yeah, I mean, it was dire. It was pretty rough. For me, it was as bad as anything in 2016.
00:07:07
Speaker
with obviously the difference being the Sounders have won a ton of things since then, but just in terms of how I felt during this game about where this team was at and where they were going, just as bad. I think there's been times that the Sounders have looked bad or worse from a purely aesthetic perspective, but those were mostly in years where ultimately there was the hope that a big addition would bail them out. And I think what
Midfield Concerns and Player Performance
00:07:58
Speaker
This is a highly, highly decorated roster, and everyone was fit, everyone was ready to go, and they just didn't look good. I don't think they can roll out that central midfield again, where it's Nico, JP, and Rusnak. That, to me, is your first choice midfield, and I don't think they can afford to use it again. It just got completely overrun. It was a mess.
00:08:01
Speaker
is going wrong right
00:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean that's I think that that is the scary thing and I think if I'm being charitable to the decisions to keep running these lineups out.
00:08:41
Speaker
I can understand how it's, it's difficult to give up on that collection of players to say like this, these guys that have won so many games for us and been so successful are just not getting it done. And we have to do something different. And when doing something different is going to entail going to younger players who maybe haven't shown that much yet, right? Like trusting that somebody is going to be able to take advantage and, you know,
00:09:09
Speaker
take advantage of, of getting the playing time that maybe they, they didn't think they were going to get. Uh, I get that that's a difficult decision to make, but it's past due at this point that you have to do it. Yeah. And along the same lines, like I don't, I don't think it's fair to scapegoat any one player. Like Nico Ledero is going to end up, I think taking a little bit of a fall in this switch situation. And, and he doesn't want, I think he's probably sensitive to that idea.
00:09:39
Speaker
And it's maybe it's unfair. I mean, he's working his butt off. I don't doubt that. I think his desire is there, but there's just that the margins. I think this is a good reminder. The margins between being one of the best players in the league and barely being able to get on the field are not that are pretty thin. And if you just lose a little bit of sharpness,
00:10:00
Speaker
that's going to knock you down. And when you're a Nico Ledero, who that's where you're you excel in those margins. He's not excelling in those margins. I don't know the last time he hit a pass that I was like, oh, that's that's Nico Ledero. Yeah. Let alone, you know, he had that he obviously had that goal against Monterey. But other than that, he's not been dangerous offensively. And that's why he's on the field. Like you need him to be your best offensive player.
00:10:28
Speaker
He's not been anywhere close to that. Similarly, Raul Rui Diaz, he had a chance this game where he got it near the top of the penalty box, he popped it up to himself, and not really being challenged, and then he hits it 10 feet over the bar. And that's just... Go ahead.
00:10:51
Speaker
Well, the thing that's weird about Raul is that with Nico, you can just see it, right? He's just not. He just doesn't have it anymore. You know, and that's understandable. It's it's not shocking. It's socks. It's depressing to see. But like there are physical changes to him that have made him this way. Raul does not look that way to me like when I watch him like a
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, clearly he's not quite as quick as he was two or three years ago, but. He's just doing things wrong, like he's he's just he's taking poor touches. Yeah, his his his finishing touches his way off. He and so in that regard, it's like he's he's always kind of been a streaky player. And so I.
00:11:47
Speaker
I think you can deal with that a little bit when you're playing well and winning, you know, in spite of that. But I have some hope that rule will put it together. And I have some hope that Nico will be able to find a niche that he can excel in. Although we've kind of talked about this before, his skill set is not really necessarily one that lends itself to coming onto a game and changing it.
00:12:10
Speaker
Yeah. So, so I don't know, but it's just, it's rough, man. It's, it's, it's depressing to watch. And I think my thing is that I think that this is where I'm at and it's not a great place to be. And I hope I'm wrong. I don't think this team is going to turn it around.
00:12:30
Speaker
I think they might limp into the playoffs. I think that they might, you know, they'll, they'll win some games here or there. Like they're not going to lose every game the rest of the year, but I don't think that they're going to hit their stride.
00:12:43
Speaker
But I would much rather them get there and have that experience trying new things, getting younger players some playing time, just not like letting allowing me a different 90 minutes than the one I've been watching for the last year is really all I'm asking at this point.
Integrating Younger Players and Tactical Changes
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah. And I, you know, I understand there's some irony in in me saying this because I think we were both sort of beating the drum that Obed Vargas can't be playing 90 minutes every game.
00:13:14
Speaker
But like in my defense, I also, because I wanted to see Josh attention playing, uh, who was another young guy, but like, I don't think there's anything to lose at this point in playing a Reed Baker Whiting at left wing back or a, or getting Obed and Josh onto the field, or, you know, like these are the kinds of changes that I think they centers need to be open to. I think the worst thing they could do this year is limp into the playoffs.
00:13:41
Speaker
relying almost exclusively on their veteran players, knowing that most of those veteran players aren't gonna be back next year. What a waste of time for everybody. It's one thing if you think those veterans potentially gonna catch lightning in a bottle and lead you to MLS Cup, I suppose that's one reason. And if they had won this game and you're like, look, they still got it, you don't really think they're gonna do it for 10 straight games, but you at least can
00:14:11
Speaker
There's no reason right now to think that this has it. I don't think this is the 2013 galaxy. Right. I don't think that this is a team with a ton of talent that still has has it in them that is playing poorly during the regular season because they know they just have to turn it on to come playoffs that I don't think that's.
00:14:32
Speaker
I mean, I do think there's something to be said about, I think there is potentially the talent on this team to do that, but I don't think there's any more reason to think that that talent is the veteran, is like all 11 veteran players. Like this team can't...
00:14:52
Speaker
Again, like I don't think it's any one guy's fault, but they do need someone in there that's going to spark them. And I just don't know who that's going to be. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my focus is probably unfairly on Nico honorable at times. Um, but they're also, I mean, they're like, yeah, exactly. They're the obvious one. Like if, to me, if Christian rolled on is starting, I think it's almost a no brainer. You got a bench, Rudy Diaz and put Morris up top.
00:15:18
Speaker
You got to try it. Like, I'm not saying it's 100% going to work, but you have to try that. You got to try it once, at least. Right. And similarly, like, I think you are probably better off, even though Rusnak didn't look gangbusters as a 10, I think you sort of owe it to yourself to try him there a little bit more. Even if it's just so you can get Obed or Josh onto the field, I'd really like it to be Josh. I don't know what Josh did to, like,
00:15:47
Speaker
be banished from the field the way that he seems to have been banished. Yeah, it's very weird. It is very weird, especially since I know he has he has, you know, he has big fans on the on the coaching staff. Yeah.
00:16:00
Speaker
But it's a weird one. You can also play without a 10. You don't have to have a 10. Right. That's also a very good point. You have to be willing to abandon your tactical philosophies to some extent. Frankly, I think a lot of the reason Niko has been struggling so much is that
00:16:23
Speaker
teams have come up with strategies to neutralize players that play like him. And for a while he was so good that didn't really matter. And that's not really as much the case anymore. You know, so maybe you want to explore the idea of just not relying on that position for your creativity. Um, but well, yeah, they, it's a very.
00:16:48
Speaker
very weird situation. Not very weird, very sad situation. And I don't have, there's not easy answers. I think that's what's the other, it's not like, if you, like there has definitely been a stretch where I kind of convinced myself, if they can just get Christian Roldan back, he sort of unlocks this whole thing and it all fits now. I don't think that's what's going on anymore. There's- I agree. Yeah.
00:17:13
Speaker
Like I don't think I, like I said, I don't think the season's totally lost, but I am less. I am far more pessimistic right now than I have been at any point this season. Yeah. I think that, um, my, my perspective on this is that I understand how the sounders ended up here and I'm okay with them ending up here in a vacuum. Right. Like, but they can't let it.
00:17:39
Speaker
But yeah, they have to acknowledge that they're here and at least try to do something. And like you said, even if that something is, we got to see what we've got in, you know, our younger players, we've got to throw them into the fire and see what they can do. We've got to try some new tactical looks. We've like whatever it is they need to do, but.
00:18:02
Speaker
It's a waste of everybody's time to keep doing what they're doing right now. Yeah. I will say if I'm being kind, I don't know if this is even kind, but I think maybe the one argument for using the lineup that they did this week is sort of.
00:18:20
Speaker
to get to the point, like they felt like they needed to get to this point. Like you kind of had to hit rock bottom and, and now it's a lot easier to make those lineup changes and saying like, look guys, there's no way we can't run away from what just happened. We have to accept this. And if we don't do anything, it's, you know, we look worse. And, and so maybe this is the.
00:18:42
Speaker
You know, this is the spark they maybe that's the spark they needed. I don't know. But this week is going to tell us a lot about this team's prospects. They're going to go at Minnesota at Austin home to timbers.
00:18:57
Speaker
If they do well in these games, you know, I think we're seeing a very different tune and I reserve the right to, uh, become enthusiastic about this team again. Yeah. But if they don't do well, this, you know, like they won't be out of the playoffs, but I think if they, like this week could really, uh, determine their season. And I say that with high, without hyperbole.
00:19:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think it can determine a lot of things. I don't necessarily expect them to play well in these games, but I think the approach they take to these games, I think the lineups they use, I think all of that stuff is going to tell you a lot about what the next, I don't know, three to six to nine months is going to look like. Yeah, exactly.
00:19:50
Speaker
We have a really long mailbag episode later in the week. I'm thinking this might do it for this one. We don't want anything else to say. There's not that much to analyze from this game. I did want to add one note. If you are a Sounder at Heart reader, and I assume
00:20:14
Speaker
virtually, if not literally, every listener of this podcast is. You surely noticed that we went through a rather tectonic change this week.
Sounder at Heart's Transition to a New Platform
00:20:25
Speaker
Sound at Heart has officially left SB Nation Vox Media and is on a new platform. It is a reader supported platform. We've been blown away at the support that we've received. We are not yet at a point where we can say like, oh, this is where
00:20:42
Speaker
Everyone did their part, we can do this forever, but we made a lot of progress, a lot, a lot of progress and I'm thrilled. I was blown away at the support. We have people reaching out. It's interesting, the readers that kind of came out of the woodwork saying like, I read you
00:21:03
Speaker
every day, I listen to every episode, you've probably never seen a comment from me and it's like, oh, well, that's nice. Like, I appreciate like, like, it's kind of neat to hear from these people. So it's really cool. I think, you know, a woman named Jasmine Wu, Lickett and Erin and I worked with her pretty closely and actually Emily Cummings helped out with
00:21:26
Speaker
feedback as well on, uh, this logo that she designed. We're going to have a whole like system design system that, uh, kind of incorporates no study at this and right out of the Valkyries. I'm really excited to be able to unveil that soon, but I hope people like what they're seeing. I mean, it's an ad. I think the platform is pretty slick. Uh, there's not ads everywhere. And, um,
00:21:51
Speaker
You know, I think this can be a fun, good thing for the community. Yeah, I agree.
00:21:57
Speaker
I have to say, a couple of weeks ago, I was really worried because how dumb is it to try to launch a reader-supported website for something that people are mad at the product of? Yeah. In some ways, possibly the nadir of the sounder's popularity. Right. Yeah, maybe. It could be.
00:22:22
Speaker
Anyway, I just wanted to say it's been really fun. I feel like I almost like I don't know. I have a lot of emotions, one of which is like I almost feel like I diffused a bomb just because I was really worried that this thing was going to blow up in my face. Yeah. And it doesn't seem like it is right now, but who knows? You know, I guess. So far, so good. Yeah. I haven't regroobered this thing quite yet. Yeah. But all right. Well, Aaron.
00:22:49
Speaker
It's been a pleasure. As always. And so I guess thank you to our sponsors, of course, Full Pool Wines and Watson's Counter, neither of whom we could be doing this thing without. So I really appreciate their support. Thank you again to everyone who signed up to become a subscriber to Sounder at Heart.
00:23:13
Speaker
And with that, I'm going to sign off. I'm Jeremiah Shan saying goodbye for Aaron, Campo, and Lickett. This is No Study Yetis. And remember, you will never yell alone.
00:24:23
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!