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Fake Donald Trump Shooter "Mark Violets": Interview With The Man Behind The Hoax (Ep. 438)
1.7k Plays9 months ago
The Italian Football Podcast interview the person behind the joke that fooled journalists and commentators the world over, into believing that Italian football YouTuber Marco Violi aka Mark Violets was the shooter in the assassination attempt of former US President Donald Trump.
Here is the link to the episode about the Marco Violi origin story referred to in this episode.
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Transcript
Introduction & Welcome
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian football podcast. Hello, everybody, and welcome to a very special interview edition of the Italian football podcast.
The Hoax Begins: Trump & Italian Football
00:00:13
Speaker
I say very special because the last five days were recording this on the 18th of July. The last five days, Calco, Twitter and an Italian and an Italian football story got connected to the attempted assassination of US presidential hopeful and former US s President Donald Trump. of who's obviously the Republican Party's presumptive nominee in the 2024 presidential election.
Details of the Trump Shooting Incident
00:00:36
Speaker
He was, as everyone knows, on July 13th, shot and wounded in his right ear while addressing a campaign rally in Pennsylvania. The shooter, Thomas Matthew Crooks, was a 20-year-old man from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania.
Roma YouTuber Misidentified as Shooter
00:00:50
Speaker
um But somehow a Roma slash YouTuber was
00:01:00
Speaker
his face was spread all over the internet by journalists and media outlets as having been the person who fired those shots after a hoax, a joke on Twitter. And we have the person who started that joke. He's known as Mussolini on Twitter. um Welcome to the Italian football podcast. Thank you, Nima. I'm very happy to be here. um look okay let's Let's start ah because we're with all of this. because
00:01:34
Speaker
with the tweet, because you sent out a tweet when you saw that Donald Trump was shot. And you took a you took a screenshot of a YouTube video of Marco Violis. I think his YouTube channel is called Radeo. Sorry, Romato Rosa or something. Yeah, should be. Yeah. and And you took a screenshot of him and it's a photo of him. it's it's It's a screenshot of him when he's looking like like he's a gangster rapper, do you know what I mean? Yeah, it was sport sort of ah pretending to be a thug if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, I remember that video very when he threatened everyone watching essentially as well in that particular clip. um And then you tweeted out, do you have the tweet? Because I know you deleted the tweet, but do you you know do do you remember exactly what you said?
00:02:17
Speaker
ah not I mean, not exactly war by war. I think you should, you should there's probably, it should be a screenshot going around or like website and stuff. But yeah, essentially it was that the ah police department from, I don't remember which town said, publicly stated that they caught the ah do person who shot Trump.
The Viral Spread of the Hoax
00:02:38
Speaker
And it was like a member of an T4, T5. I'm not really sure how you spell out pronounce it. And there was of course mention about Trump and so on. Yeah, that was it pretty much.
00:02:49
Speaker
And then this went viral when a Twitter account, a more conservative Twitter account, yeah he did he quote tweet you or did he just basically copy paste? Yeah, you know, that's the funny thing. I mean, funny between quotation marks, because it's total, of of course, it's totally nonsensical. But this, ah let's say, account from, let's say, the you could say from the alt right side of Twitter, you know, I was I think remember one was Wall Street fielder, then there was some sort of another like I'll try journalists or influencers or whatever. It's not like they quoted or tried to you know mention me as the source of the, or it's obviously an idiotic and totally crazy thing because you can see you know it just a picture of this guy from an account named Mussolini, that a profile picture of myself with the ah face of this guy photoshopped on it. So just by the logic, it's completely nonsensical. It's not like they quoted me or just they used me as a source.
00:03:46
Speaker
what the dog essentially was that i was giving the news and they try to steal the news from me essentially just go with the text of the tweet war for war and the picture included because i guess there were some sort of you know for more like you're missing out you know i was on twitter something goes. When it starts to get rid of the ghost viral maybe ah some important account see it it starts to mention it and maybe another account see it that has all the followers and they want to break the news before they want to make clicks they want to have engagement therefore yeah i remember uh even the the
00:04:19
Speaker
I think initially the one that really made the explode the thing was and i one account called Wolster Silver, but then after a while, I think maybe a few hours later, but personally, I mean, for me started as a joke, as a joke, sorry, because I don't know if you know, when it comes to the English speaking part of Twitter, they have this sort of meme with a guy named Sam Hyde was, I think, like a comedian.
Memes and False Identifications
00:04:43
Speaker
And every time there's some there's some sort of ah news about you know a shooting or some slight kind of terrorist attack, pretty much everyone posts the picture of this guy like we're holding, I think, AK-47 or whatever with his pink hair and like identifying him as the shooter. So it's kind of overrunning Mimi. If you even Google the name of this guy, it just even shows up on the Wikipedia page. And on our, let's say, on our
00:05:05
Speaker
sub-community of Italian ah football Twitter. We have this thing where we take one of these characters and of course Marco is is one of them and we make a joke when the same things happens, you know, when there's a one of the server event happening. But it it was supposed to be constrained, let's say, to our little bubble, you know. Yeah, the Twitter or bubble, yeah. Yeah, exactly. What happens usually, it just, you know, some people really need to make fun of it, maybe some totally deranged and idiotic person just falls right I think it's actually real that you know what totally nonsensical tweet can be tweeted by an obviously you know
00:05:40
Speaker
a normal account, a running her account can be real. And sadly, I think I, I mean, no, sorry, overestimated the ah the level of the alt-right Twitter because I realized after a while ah that they were actually taking the streets seriously.
Media's Role in Spreading the Hoax
00:05:55
Speaker
When I did like, I would i actually did like this in 30 seconds when I was in a boat, which is funny, and I even had like some not clear connection so I couldn't I could barely even understand what was happening but after a while I realized that you know several prominent let's say members of the outright community in terms of followers on on Twitter were actually taking it so I deleted it but it was too late because essentially as I told you before it's not just that they people started quoting me I think I deleted it when you got some sort of you know 100 retreats so maybe I don't remember exactly the screenshot I went through
00:06:27
Speaker
That was futile because suddenly as I told you before all these wall street silver ah There was another one which ah with a lot with a large following base, which is common world I think pretty much copied the tweet war for war and include the picture so they try to Pass the news in quotation marks by themselves and so I guess that's when really exploded because personally yeah I thought it would be like reduced to the limited to our bubble but after a while I just deleted the tweet and a lot of everybody was too late I guess And then I saw Dave Rubin, who's a very famous common political commentator in the United States, he co-tweeted that, so was it silver, what it called? Yeah, I guess it was, exactly. yeah He co-tweeted that and talked about Antifa. Then the absolutely most insane thing happened. yeah Then Simon Ateba,
00:07:18
Speaker
who is the White House white house correspondent at Today News African Washington DC, part of the official White House press pool, tweeted out a photo of Donald Trump when he's punching his fist in the air and said that that it it had been confirmed that Mark Violetz was the shooter. Yeah. And you see, that wasn't even because of me, we're just thinking like those tweets from those outright accounts from for granted, like Wall Street Silver, Clown World, whatever it is, which, you know, tells you a lot about the the standards they have in terms of fetching when even like a White House chief correspondent just
00:07:57
Speaker
Feel it's free to just make a name without, you know, any, you know, verification whatsoever, because I i mean, I couldn't understand if it was it came came up on the, you know, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, whatever, but it probably wouldn't end up there in the first place, because serious newspaper just check and of course they didt they don't straight out believe an account like mine or even Wall Street Silver or car'or something they find on Twitter, of course. So yeah, it's definitely a testament to the situation of the press in the US, I would say.
International Broadcasting of False News
00:08:27
Speaker
Well, i'd I'd say it's media in general, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. i mean Correct. Definitely not limited to the US s because i' I've seen it made the rounds even in South America, for example. so and that get to That's what I going to get to. This was then
00:08:41
Speaker
After this, if this was then broadcast on local stations in the United States. I saw it in a Mexican mexican TV station. I think I saw a Chilean TV station. what Which other TV stations did you see this on? uh you know the thing really exploded and to be honest with you i just i didn't even care that much i went to bed like shortly after so i didn't i can't really tell you uh exactly you know specifically where where when we would go personally even myself i probably missed a lot of it so i personally have seen as you mentioned like the maximum one the region i i don't think it was original american TV channel i think it was more like an online thing but in on on twitter they just showed the
00:09:22
Speaker
the someone recording the screen of ah of a TV so they probably assume it was a TV channel, but I think it was like a web TV or whatever and Now that I think about it a Yeah, I think I've seen some screenshots about our TV channel maybe in Spanish so but I cannot like for yeah So maybe probably some Italian media as well, but mean I think the sky News 24 maybe in Italy, but I don't think they actually they might have mentioned it but so but actually not show them Because afterwards, then then of course, people started debunking it because the police were the the actual police were telling people. who exactly yeah um and and And of course, you know this was then reported all over the world.
00:10:08
Speaker
NBC, CNN, I've seen Newsweek do a story, I've seen i've seen um all in italy over Italy, and then of course it ended up on Jon Stewart's The Daily Show.
Mussolini's History of Hoaxes
00:10:19
Speaker
That's like the the pinnacle of it. You can't go beyond that, really, to be honest. i Imagine me making ah a tweet on a boat, I was drunk in 30 seconds, a like and two days after there's this guy on ah ah right on The Daily Show, its so you could call it the butterfly effect. One could say that that's a butterfly effect. ah someone somewhat would I mean, it's it's truly unbelievable. But i let's go back, because I mean, those who listen to this part now, who maybe didn't listen to us two, three years ago when we did it, because because this is not the first time that you've done this. OK, so this is not the first time that this is hoax and joke that you've done has in in a similar situation when there's been a terrorist attack or something horrible where you yeah made a joke about it in the sense that you
00:11:05
Speaker
you turned Marco Violi's name into, in Norway, especially, I remember, you're calling it Vjölingberg and then a a AKA Marek Al Viol. Yeah, it's like Islamist version. But you see, I think it was not only me, because as I told you, it's kind of a recurring meme, you're probably gonna, you know, every time that there's some Cesarosa, there are probably some no accounts on our ah you know in the italian football twitter bubble that does this sort of thing but it probably doesn't go as far as it goes probably because maybe they don't have as many followers as i have and sort of stuff but the previous two were like really contained because it pretty much we're only believed i think by you know some gullible people on twitter and maybe i remember even some you know very niche if i'm not wrong romanian or like a website so it didn't
00:11:56
Speaker
go nearly as much in terms of scale to the level these are reaching was that's what I was that it was I was telling before, it's a joke we do ah routinely, not just with Mark, but with a lot of, you know, characters that we make fun of in in a little bubble. And usually it's just the impact is very limited, you know, it just doesn't go it just maybe one or two, you know, online newspaper reporting, and then maybe the they cancel it, or maybe, you know, some, you know, tabloids to within maybe a very, you know, unknown country does it, but that's it. But in this case, of course, you went way in, you know, way beyond, because again, this couple of very
00:12:32
Speaker
ah large Twitter account. just i copyd i To get back on that Maricalviol thing, the thing that really blew me away on that is because you did it like it was so obvious that it was exactly because if you look at that photo, it is probably the worst Photoshop. ive but my Yeah, you know what? It's not even my job, the Photoshop. It was just a picture of fun like on my timeline, I think. Really? Yeah, yeah. It wasn't on my... It's not like I took a picture, I went on a Photoshop, and yeah I just... I think I didn't save it on my phone, because someone else did it to make fun of me. And it was it was Marco Violino Roma shirt wearing a cathedral. Exactly, yeah. And it's so badly edited that you have to be a child or an idiot. Exactly. That's true. Correct.
00:13:19
Speaker
But it's this these other jokes i mean it's it's been on that level that it's been done but to go back a little further ah john solano who runs roma press who was part of this podcast when we started it. sha out a yeah Yeah he was we didn't we did an episode when the only nation the hashtag went viral. I think it was twenty in November 2021, because you spaces had just been introduced to Twitter. And you of obviously Marco Violi, he does lots of songs. but and And the most famous one was at the expense of John. Of John, correct. anybody And he trained all over the world. That was very funny. Yeah. And and so you you collected all of the songs and you did a space called Violi Nation.
00:14:04
Speaker
And I remember this because it was, for a brief moment, the most listened to space in Twitter history, the most people on it. It was trending, the only nation was trending all over the world. yeah And I remember there were famous people like Fedes, Errani, even Silvio Berlusconi's Twitter account joined in. rat i mean this i how do you I mean, obviously it's just a joke for your smart for the small community of Italian culture, Twitter. exactly yeah how do you Have you thought about what how this like what are your thoughts on the fact that this thing has become like a juggernaut?
Who is Marco Violi?
00:14:45
Speaker
like it's It's living a life of its own almost now.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, when it comes to this thing you're speaking of, I think it was some sort of a perfect storm back in the day because we were during the ah pandemic era and pretty much like half of the developer world was locked in at home at that time, sort of. ah there were and and you know There's ah people always sitting in front of their phone or their computers. So like a few days before the thing happened, I just you know i tweeted one thing saying, you know just I have an idea. One day I might just do a space with a virtual mic on my laptop where I play all the the songs and the rants with this guy. Because again, this guy's a sort of a recurring meme and you know and you know just sort of character that we always make fun of and we make meme you know reaction videos and stuff.
00:15:33
Speaker
So I did it. And essentially what I've done, again, just as I said before, I used a virtual mic lock on an emulator to just use ah Twitter for Android on my on my laptop. And I just played this you know compilation of songs at the lower of my PC. And it just went away. I think for for one hour, when I came back, 5,000 to 8,000 people connected to this thing. So it's just totally, you know even from not just from Italy, but from um all over the world, I think we just the hashtag became like top three or top four like ah of the worldwide trends. So yeah yeah, just again, this is just didn't make any sense. Then it doesn't do the tweeting that happened a few days ago. It doesn't make any sense. Now, I guess sometimes you just, you know, there's a perfect storm in the sense that there's a few maybe highly influential account.
00:16:21
Speaker
that engage totally, you know, randomly with one thing. And of course, they bring in their following into it. You know, maybe when I was doing the donation thing, maybe some new some, you know, journalists came in. And then maybe this journalist was followed by a sports star like it was in Iran. is And maybe she joined in, and then all her followers see it, and they join it. It's like a snowball effect. yeah And it grows. and it's sort And it's sort of what happened with the with the tweets the other day. I mean, when i when I realized it was getting a little bit out of hand, of course I deleted it, but I i couldn't realize it. It would just copy and paste and use the picture of something that was obviously, you know, totally, it was always worth a joke. It was just just a meme. So, but sadly, again, I think I overestimated a large part of the so the, the part of Twitter, I guess,
00:17:07
Speaker
I think we're going to get to what this means later, but I mean, just to put talk a little bit more about Veoli, of course, we did a podcast and I'm going to link to that podcast episode that we did back then, because this was about mar this whole thing started when Marco Veoli ah did a song about John Solano, a rude, very rude and aggressive song exactly yeah um about John. And we did a podcast on that who Marco is and his relationship with John, or harassment of John, rather, over two, three years. yeah um And and and that's when that's when I discovered, that's when your account and and and Logic SEO, ah who had in the past worked with Roma on an SEO thing. And that's what I wanted to bring this to, because Marco Violi,
00:17:53
Speaker
As we are, you know, we as I said on that part, if you don't want the the cliff's notes of that is He was a very famous Roma journalist in the late 2000s. He started a very big fan site and it was very followed. He was working with a woman there um and she he was interested in her. She wasn't interested in him. He started stalking her. um And then he had some sort of a mental breakdown because he then, he he then of course, on his web page, has published an interview with his doctor
00:18:27
Speaker
with the doctor lists all the medication he's on, right? I'm not really sure that's actually true because you see the problem with this guy is just you cannot reliably believe what he's saying every single time because I mean I don't know there's probably someone listening listening to this podcast who actually knows it but we're talking about the guy who pretended to die or to kill himself I think at this point like 15 times Yeah he's done many times and he's he's lied that his mother has died many times. and correct exactly Exactly. I mean it's ah you know it's ah it's very difficult to understand this point but it's just a very fine line between a guy actually having issues or a guy actually playing the character of the guy you know who just sues everyone because it's not only the the fake suicide and you know the rant videos and the songs. So it comes to ah to a point where you just, you know, hold on, is this guy actually, does this guy actually
00:19:16
Speaker
have any issue or it just you know it's playing this character just for entertainment because you know you said before that like towards the late uh 2000 it was relatively followed and reliable uh like Roma I mean I wouldn't put it that way it was probably like let's say average I mean now is now is it I would say pretty much relevant because if it wasn't for ah this sort of shenanigans I guess his website is one of the probably one of the We threat when it comes to the at least the roma ecosystem and this guy has of course ah built like his his entire existence on you know ah blaming everyone else for his failures because before us, you know, this guy was ah did getting made fun on on the ah you know, and the on the local I don't know if you know this thing but in Rome we have we we are famous for in multiple
00:20:04
Speaker
you know radio shows correct yes for glacial roma mostly for for roma we have you know many local radios that talk about the football and stuff and i think he briefly worked into one of them but eventually he just moved to the to his website and of course this thing about his uh his rants that he just posts online about people there's one very famous one where he just is lishing out against another YouTuber because he was making fun of him, buying fake followers for his YouTube account and just goes saying things that I cannot repeat because I like homophobic slurs. So this is one of the most famous ones. But initially, let's see, from 2010, I think up to 2016, it was pretty much like an irrelevant character that was being made fun of on local radio sometimes, for example.
00:20:52
Speaker
there's There was one speaker that really liked to, you know, make make fun of him and poke him and used to play live on on on on on his radio and to do it in his show. It's like his his songs and like a little excerpt of his, you know, his videos when he rants and he said his sort of things. And of course, ah ah Marco just threatened to shoot him and he pretended like to have killed himself because of what he was doing and so on. Then and the thing you moved a little bit on the on that on the Twitter. Because I think around 2020, and if I'm not wrong, as is as how all these entire things started, an account that I was following, because I didn't even know. I mean, I knew it, let's say partially, because I used to listen to one of these radios that sometimes made fun of it. But I just realized what kind of character it was when
00:21:39
Speaker
someone on my Twitter feed posted his very famous video, and known known, I will be your terror. I'm translating from Italian, but it just makes a rant. Yeah, exactly. And I i saw it and this guy posted this this video from YouTube, just linking on Twitter and lie laughing and said, I'm dying for water. And I opened a the video and I just quoted and said, who the hell is this guy? And I just you know started researching and watching this other like totally nonsensical video and we kind of it it became some it became some sort of a you know cold character um inside the Twitter bubble, and that's how it developed. Yeah, and and what i'm what what I basically wanted to... Yeah, but that's true. I was just saying basically some sort of cliff notes. So he was a journalist, he had this he worked with this woman, this he stalked this woman. According to the report that I read, it was one of the worst instances of recorded stalking, um according to that journal according to that newspaper report.
00:22:34
Speaker
Then, you know he um he the whole thing with his his he the whole thing with John broke out. Yeah, and before this, he also, he actually, I mean, this is probably not well known, but in 2013, I mean, you can even find the news actually seen online if you just ah google and and if computer if you Google in Italian, like, Sabatini Terchetta,
Violi's Conspiracy Theories
00:22:55
Speaker
which means... Yeah, I was just about to come to that. So because he he he also believes that James Palota, the American businessman who used to own Roma, is paying you and yeah heers everyone and everyone else on Twitter to harass him. So I know this is a ludicrous question, but I have to ask for the record. Have you been paid ever by James Palota to do any kind of work? And if if if so, have you done any? have Has James Palota been in contact with you to harass Marco Violi?
00:23:27
Speaker
You know just one of the reason i came here was just to to set the record straight on on all of this because you know when it comes to me like i have no problems you know i personally. I think i've done nothing particularly wrong and i'm not particularly like trading or scare from what's happening from a legal step point again because i think i've been sued by market for like seven times but of course i am willing to bear all the responsibility and i can hear just as a. because I am responsible what to do not for other people. So I came here to set the regular strike and say that he has this sort of weird ah conspiracy theory because you see for him it's all about now we're just in the third phase that he had like at the start it was I think maybe at the start of the previous decade he was blaming the Roman radius or for the local radio for just like pushing me now I'm not allowing to work and move a block.
00:24:12
Speaker
Then around maybe two thousand and ten twelve started ah you know creating this sort of conspiracy theory that like local ah let's say that the local press was trying to you know try to hinder him in his career and they were like stealing news from him and they were just making fun of him and just not letting him have his job. And that's why the video was referring to the one through which I discovered him. It's like pretty much a rant where he mentioned all these journalists. I think he sued pretty much any journalist who works with Broma in existence over the last 20 years. And then it seemed that... It's spent every time, hasn't he?
00:24:48
Speaker
Excuse me, sorry. He's failed. Every lawsuit has failed so far. I mean, I wouldn't even call it a lawsuit because essentially what this guy does is goes to the ah to the you know local police station when it's just trying to. you know, try to do a criminal report for stuff which are absolutely, you know, out of the mind. We're talking about a guy would try to, you know, ah start criminal proceeding against people because they put a, you you know, laughing emoji reaction on on on ah on a post of his on Facebook, or because someone, you know, posts a song which are freely available on his YouTube accounts. And so, I mean, yeah you understand that if you do, even if you if you're like, a
00:25:24
Speaker
You actually, in the right, if you start doing this for you know hundreds of times, eventually, nobody is going to take you seriously. cultivat And to finish the the what I was thinking, and then there was the third phase, obviously, let's say, but conspiracy theory and things that he built ah that he thinks that it's the reason why is you know they cannot he cannot do a jewice it cannot do his job properly and so on. And the third page is essentially that since it was very critical of the previous ownership of the club, which was, of course, run by the... ah be what I mean, James Palota was the president, it was more of a group of American investors, really, but it was as the forefront on the whole thing. Since he was criticizing him, and also because, as a side note,
00:26:06
Speaker
He used to own a website, not just ah his website, that he has now ro jerusalem but also a one called ASRomaRadio.id, which was pretty much the the the website where he just was but was ah was having his web radio, because now he does this stuff mostly through YouTube. And what happened is that he had he actually went to court, ah brought there by one of the one of the people in management from Roma at the time, because of course, There used to be, there's not anymore, but there used to be an official you know radio station for the club. in ah It was just headquartered in Tigordia and stuff. And of course, if there's an official radio station for the club, which is called the Romoradio, you cannot make a website called AS Romoradio because it's sort of... No, it's intellectual property. Exactly. i Exactly. in yeah
00:26:55
Speaker
And if you actually can easily find a line because there's been ah an arbitration and this thing has been ruled, of course, in favor of Roma. And of course, ah this is what, let's say, pushed him towards the edge, because essentially what you think is that the previous ownership and management of the globe just got rid of, you know, just try to you know, persecuting him and just got this thing away from him. And so he started to be incredibly bitter and playing the part of the guy, you know, criticize the, the, you know, the, the running the club, the president, what's happening and so on and so on and so forth. And to be fair, like nobody really even care or even notice because before he became against and sort of this internet character, nobody, but I mean, if you went on his, his YouTube account, as I said before, it was pretty much forced to to buy followers and views and likes on his channel to, you know, give at least
00:27:43
Speaker
some sort of you know, idea to people that he was being following a moderate success about probably, you know, we're talking about videos that were your reality watch, but maybe I know 50 100 people, it was totally, you know, most people, most people were totally oblivious to this guy. And then when you know, we discovered this guy, and of course, you know, we just went crazy, because it was the most nonsensical character we've ever seen, it was started making fun of impossible news video. ah since you know ah logic used to actually ah i mean it's not actually the right way to put it because it was a freelancer and it was let's say employed for ah
00:28:17
Speaker
very small amount of time i think maybe a few months when paloto was not even involved in the whole thing because the president was Was Thomas the Benedictine? Yeah, correct. Yeah, yeah, it was um correct. It wasn't safe for the first two years and essentially work like as a CEO consultant to, you know, fix, you know, things when it comes to Google searches and, you know, improving the performance of the website when it comes to searches and bla blah, blah, blah, like a few months. And essentially what what Veoli has done is done and going to just Google around and so like this news then it went back to the tweets which are even mentioned by and by the i mean the official roma mention account official Roma Twitter account mentions him like maybe with tweets from 2012. So it created this absurd theory according to which there's some sort of link
00:29:07
Speaker
between him and Roma and that is like the guy was getting paid and just ah you know let's say he's given resources by the previous Roma ownership because he criticized the previous ownership but oh of course it's it's a total fabrication and just a coincidence it's just that you know Logic was following me at the time I think Logic actually found out this guy through me because I quoted the tweet of the guy that that posted the video you know the boss of the road and then he saw it and of course we both started many fun of him And he kind of we kinda made it like a cult icon and in the culture of Twitter, let's say. And therefore, let's say, it builds this conspiracy theory. But again, like I said before, one of the reasons I came here is to set the record for this thing. I'm not you know doing these things
00:29:51
Speaker
ah As a group with everyone, of course, like I know ah logic a logic about only true, you know, as a, let's say, in quotation marks, ah internet friend, I never even met a person because he lives know in the US. I mean, I know you used to live in New York, I don't know where it is now. i I know John because we, you know, i the following and I've been interacting with me like for years. ah But we are not in any way, you know, part of a group. And most importantly, I've known of us as like ever met or having anything to deal ah with James Pollock in our lifetime. And like the thing is a total fabrication. And, you know, again, as I said before, I don't really care about me and getting the responsibility for what happened this viewing that is never going to materialize anyway. But when you start bringing other people into the conversation,
00:30:35
Speaker
and especially when you have a platform like see like he had ah going on the national newspapers like, you know, Republica Correia de la Serra saying that this is happening because he criticized that the previous Noshio Roma and, you know, Palota is just not paying these people to persecute him. I mean, if I was him, I mean, probably he probably doesn't care, I guess, but, you know, I would be very upset and maybe even distressed to see my name on national newspaper be associated, you know, with this crazy and nonsensical theory of, you know, getting forming some sort of the Avengers or Twitter to against against him, which is you know me, John, and Logic trying to harass him. because Also, for for what reason? i mean He hasn't been the owner of of the club for like three years. it's like but Is this some sort of, I don't know, mafia boss who owns the garage and has to make him pay like for but the rest of the life? It totally doesn't make any sense.
00:31:26
Speaker
i No, I understand completely. so But then yesterday, because we're recording this on a wednesday and sorry ison of on on um on a Thursday, thursday yeah um yesterday, on Wednesday, you were on a radio station. Correct. Yeah, but probably the the most followed show. and it's Yeah, it's a talk show and you were there with Marco. No, no, no. He didn't want to join because they they actually even tried. Of course, they they even added this show to the long list of the people they threatened to sue. They posted, you know, with sounds, vibes and songs and all that. I initially started going alone and then the lawyer from ah the the
00:32:08
Speaker
ah The the the violi family like you know that is you know dealing with the yoi family joined and yeah with a quick talk and of course it was so real because essentially they call this the this poor woman and they just started you know making the whole stand the other guests in the in the studio started pretty much making fun of it. you know, they just, they were saying, you know, Mussolini is right, it's the fault of, you know, blah, blah, blah. So it totally yeah ended up in ah in ah in a total core crash, even on my side, to be fair, because I had, you know, a terrible connection problem, I could barely hear what was happening, like in the last half of the gala was pretty much like answering at random. and And towards the end, there was like this, is you know, this surreal moment where like the the host of the
00:32:52
Speaker
of the show asking like, ah do you regret like ah doing this? And and I said, ah yes. And then it's and then Danny asked me, are we going to continue to like, ah you know, do this stuff, make fun of this guy and I say yes, which is like nonsense, you know, but the the the reality is that I was barely alien and I Couldn't understand if you were saying do you regret it and like or do you don't regret it and you know this thing with a double negatives and you know I what I actually answer was so you don't regret it yes in the sense that I do not regret it and and because I think what happened essentially I made a joke and then when I realized he got out of random course I deleted the tweet.
00:33:25
Speaker
But when it comes to responsibility, I think when the idea that the thing went viral has to be attributed to all these huge accounts with a huge following that pretty much made it credible. Because I mean, I was before the whole thing, an accountant, I think, 14,000, I mean, I think 14,000, 15,000 followers, and I just made a tweet that went to maybe 100 retweets as something that was an obvious joke. But I understand if I keep the tweet there and you know maybe another news outlet or another you know account, they just quote me and they say, according to Mussolini, which would be absolutely totally nonsensical. But at this point, I i don't even no what ah you know what makes sense or not. I mean, that it makes sense. But if they literally just copy and paste and my the text of the you know the tweet and and the picture and try to make it
00:34:09
Speaker
pass for yours. I guess we all share the responsibility, but when it comes to the, you know, the weights, you know, and the whole situation, I guess I have probably the minimal, because I mean, I don't have like millions of followers, and I don't have the reach that this guy has. They probably randomly found this to it and thought, you know, this is, this might be true. Let's try to break the news and not steal it from some guy. And if it goes well, good. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. So that's what happened. Again, Well, that's exactly it. I think one of the maybe that wasn't your intention, but one of the unintended consequences of this is that you've exposed some pretty big journalists as being absolute frauds. I mean, I'm not surprised, to be honest. Yeah. Because it would have taken about five seconds of background research to understand that this was nonsense.
00:35:01
Speaker
Absolutely, but that's as I was saying earlier is the the fear of missing out thing. It's not really about you know It's not about i think you know Giving the right news is about being first and you know making it making a clicks making the engagement like they they want to be at the forefront and it just it doesn't really matter for them if it's true or wrong if it's if it's Sort of looks credible, you know, they might have to go away it with it with just because in case something wears up and it gets you know, just disproved or like debunked, they just delete the tweet. Sadly, when a lot of these large account do this thing and they leave the tweet on for like hours, because I've done this thing and it kind of sort of started to explode, I couldn't really realize again because it was on a boat, I barely had signal. But as soon as I realized I deleted it and the whole thing I think between the the tweet and the deletion lasted maybe half an hour.
00:35:49
Speaker
But these people like with you know million followers under 16 hours 16 hours Simon a tuba's a tuba's yeah Yeah, but even like the the other one that posted the picture like Wall Street Silver or clown world all this like right wing influencer I don't even know the names they just kept it for hours on and When it was obviously that it was a joke and they couldn't of course do a you know fact-checking on the thing so when it comes to you know That's why I say this before, I mean, I'll say it again. I'm not like feel threatened, scared or whatever. um First of all, because I've been sued by this family like for I think maybe 700 times and I was going to want to do 701, feel free because I've been sued first. and yet don Again, from from the crime of, you know, streaming songs in space to, you know, making fun. redre I mean, we're talking about a guy who
00:36:34
Speaker
ah suit me logic and all of our followers. I mean, what's the logic? It's not like you follow me, you're associated with what I do. It's like when you have those... Did he actually sue you though? Because I just saw those tweets. like Was it an actual lawsuit or was it just like him saying it on Twitter? You know, the the thing is, I don't really know how to convert this from ah when it comes to the, from, ah let's say, Italian to maybe criminal or general foreign justice system, like he went to to push, I guess, the criminal charges, how you could put it. I mean, he wasn't assuming, in a sense, it was like a civil case, he actually went, but it's not like just this time. I mean, he went to, to prove the, to do this, for example, for the real nation thing, and of course, for 700, you know, times, because of course, he blames me, logic and John of being, you know,
00:37:21
Speaker
ah the cyber bullies or you know ah stalkers i mean i don't know how the fuck can i stalk him when i leave i don't know 10 hours flight from from from his house but anyway so it just pretty much accused us of any possible crime even non-existent crime and of course no um not any of this has ever gone through uh because yesterday again i was on this radio show talking with um with this lawyer of their family. And I explained, i't i don't need I don't need to expose myself, and and especially to people that have like threatened and and you know to kill me and like to quarter me alive and get the my heart out of my rib cage several times and they're like creates a screenshot and stuff to prove it. I just said, you know if there's an actual crime, if you go in to report someone, I mean, it's not anonymity on a
00:38:11
Speaker
you know, on a face-to-face, if I'm going to save it, because I'm no, like, tech-savvy, like, cybersecurity expert. I'm no adverse, as I say, to the, to the guy who just interviewed me yesterday. I mean, if you can, if I really actually commit a crime, like, a serious thing, let's say I tweet on my account, there's, there's now, you know, I'm going to put a bomb to the, to the, you know, the crowd of the tailors with concern kill everyone or if I go under your account and say Mima I know where you live I'm gonna under your house I'm gonna come with a knife and and cut your heads off
00:38:42
Speaker
I mean, of course, I mean, that's actually a serious allegation. If you go to the police, they will just get in touch with the local offices of Twitter. They will check my account and they can easily find boy a boy hand by exactly several digital fingerprinting, like i know IP addresses. There's my real numbers that I use, email addresses that they can be important to me. So she was actually trying to blame the that it's ah an issue when it comes to the bureaucracy of the you know authority police. But that's actually not true. All these you know criminal charges that have just been dropped because this guy shows up. You know, how do you say, you know, you know, police station and it just brings a a folder of nonsensical things like this guy is harassing me because he retreated. And of course, they don't take it seriously and they trash everything, which I'm pretty sure what I'm pretty sure is going to you're going to do the same thing ah with this whole thing. ah Yeah. I mean, one one one thing to give an idea well because one thing that I remember that he did, which you were talking about when but Walter Sabatini that was was pallota of the owner then I think when Walter Sabatini was a director of sport. but ah
00:39:39
Speaker
I mean, Palota was always the owner because, i again, it wasn't the only way. It was a shared ownership by a group of Americans. 2013, it was this, I think, I need to double check, but I think it was, it just came, like, Benedetto went back to the U.S. and he was probably, ah yeah, put it ah as the president. I need to double check the dates. Because you see, what if you actually Google around, not about the trial, but if you ah Google on, for Sabatini in Tertia, which in Italian is like Sabatini is getting, you know, ah Why hot mike yeah hot mike yeah not really why but it was a hot mike really so essentially what happened is that it's probably you could argue that it's the only serious you know news that it like ah you know exclusive that it broke in his life because essentially was talking it was some sort of you know let's say credible you know borderline normal journalist back in the day it was talking with sabatini on the phone.
00:40:31
Speaker
And essentially what ah what happened is that they they stopped the call, Sabarini put down his phone, it was so but he didn't actually turn off the call. He didn't hang up, he didn't hang up up. He didn't hang up and he was talking with Fenucci, who was the ah the CFO of the of Rome at the time. and the starting of the record conversation saying, you know, we might sell, and de roi we might sell, I think it was Marquinhos back in the day, like like the the breakthrough start star of the previous season, and essentially Marco was listening to all of this and recording this, and then what is done is done like an incredibly idiotic thing, because it didn't just
00:41:10
Speaker
break the news in the sense that he made an article on his website. Romano is considering selling Martinez or De Rossi, especially when it comes to De Rossi. It's a pretty huge thing. That's holy. Yeah, that's that's gigantic. by i mean Can you guess what it's done also as well to make the whole thing more understandable? Did he did he did he publish the recording of the call? Correct. just food this Oh my God. Did he actually do that? He did that and actually and that's the reason he went to trial for it. I mean if you just break the news saying ah you know ah Roma wants to... but First of all it's not corroborated by anything and it's actually not that like an exclusive blah blah and especially if you're something like him which was like pretty irrelevant as a journalist back at the time it's also nobody's going to take it seriously but if you actually
00:42:00
Speaker
published on your website, a phone call. So I guess that was the time, you know, that just the moment that you decided, you know, I said, you know, my career is pretty much like into the ground, I have nothing to lose, let's try to go lean, let's see if I can just do something which is obviously, you know, I cannot say illegal because I'm not aware of ah how the trial actually actually ended if you were senders or not but I just know that he went to trial and I know a few people went actually as witnesses to this thing <unk>nna and yeah essentially just went all in and maybe had like I don't know it maybe it's maybe his week of fame because of course these things started making the rounds in the news and you know it was of course pretty embarrassing from the club of course we're getting you know caught right ended talking about something on this and especially considering selling one of the you know
00:42:46
Speaker
symbols of the club. But again, if if the um because of course there's always some politics involved, you you know, with the but journalists, press offices, I mean, it's and a in any in any like ah business, in any environment really, of course, maybe there's some clap that has a preferential treatment towards others and doesn't have a good relationship with other journalists, so it doesn't involve that much. And of course, now I'm not saying this happened, but of course, if I am Roma and this guy pretty much try did a hot mic and tried to you know do something which is pretty
00:43:18
Speaker
At worst, let's say at worst illegal and at worst illegal. Very immoral, very, very immoral. Yeah, very unethical. Like if you're a journalist from a journalist from a journalist, like a standpoint. So I would totally wouldn't blame like the the club or like the the press office at the time for, you know. hindering him and just not maybe consider like ah giving him an interview and news and all of us. I mean, is that the obvious thing to do?
Legal Battles Against Perceived Enemies
00:43:41
Speaker
How can you reliably trust and you know build a you know serious relationship with a guy who just gets on a hot mic and just pretty much like... yeah and then publishes the conversation. Exactly, exactly like the mp file absolutely mental. so and yeah That is pretty mental, to be honest. yeah um okay um that's um this this This situation ah with Violi Nation, which is the hashtag and of course you your your account which you called Mussolini, which is, if I remember it correctly, that you're you named it Mussolini because it was a Portuguese report
00:44:17
Speaker
calling Mourinho when he was appointed, the Il Duce after Mussolini, of Roma, right? No, I think it was, ah if i don't remember if I remember correctly, it was a Spanish actually i mean is of a of the ah fact that, you know, just the not not because he was appointed as a Roma coach, it was like a few months after, because as ah it was essentially saying that i like as a manager he was finished and there was this absurd claim saying is the Portuguese Mussolini. And what i used to what I used to do with this account is that I just changed my nickname back and forth because when I see this you know very funny thing, I just maybe change my you know my hat temporarily and just dedicate it to this sort of stuff. And that's what I've done. I just you know i read this thing and I just ah cry myself kind of myself laughing. And I just made this nickname, which was supposed to be temporary. you know Just maybe after maybe a few weeks, I would just switch back to some other stuff and make it more normal.
00:45:12
Speaker
but after a few weeks there was the real mission thing and like my name became pretty much like you know immortalized and all over the press website and stuff so it kind of i got stuck with it that at that point because it sort of became you know my I just want to ask a little bit, have you been contact, because I know this has been all over the Italian news, it's been over the global news. yeah Have you been, have you have have like who's who's been contacting you to do interviews? Because I'm sure like your DMs must be full.
00:45:46
Speaker
Actually, not quite. I mean, I've got in touch from the from this radio show that I went yesterday on and from, let's say, from a journalist from Republica who was going to publish an interview ah with me that I made yesterday on, I think, on the on the web version. So, but in general, there wasn't, I mean, I had my DMs open by default even before, but yeah, there weren't wasn't actually huge amount of interest, which again, I'm not to be honest, that that surprise because I think this thing is has been really blown out of proportion in the sense. Yeah, of course. I was an oaks. But you know, this sort of stuff happens all the time when you with a lot of you know,
00:46:28
Speaker
news up and on there's like people be making fun of when it comes to the tramp shoot actually i am something happened with another guy i've seen some pictures of the long blonde hair which has been my study identified so it just you know it is very common and i don't think it's something you know history making of course i mean he made history in some sense i mean we're gonna. on the daily you know the day show we joined you and stream that you end up going on wikipedia of course they made a huge impact but you know it's not something you know groundbreaking stuff so of course i had my attention which i don't really need because i don't plan on becoming you know just
00:47:02
Speaker
uh live my life as an internet sensation like make any money out of it absolutely not and just add this dis account just to you know for fun and love exactly just to yeah totally interact with the with uh you know football cultural community and just to have fun to draw people i totally don't for me i mean and my follower account has pretty much exploded but for me just i could have 500 followers like 50,000 i would start behaving the same way it's not like something that i actually plan to do or just that i you know You're not trying to build a career is what I know. I'm not even a following, to be honest, i'm not to mention a career. So, yeah, absolutely. and Well, I mean, this story is quite the cultural phenomenon and it touches on very, very, you know, like we've spoken about throughout this 45, 50 minutes about lots of things. And so I assume that you're just going to continue having fun with this. Right. I mean, that is that what you want to do or do you think that you do or have you felt that maybe given what happened here,
00:48:02
Speaker
Like, what are your thoughts? Going forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I was drinking. Yeah, I mean, let's say, just as I told that that radio station yesterday, that was like that it' your surreal moment that you said to your gradient and i said, yes, you keep on doing it and i say yes. I mean, I'm going to keep on doing what I think and actually what I think law enforcement think I'm doing since I've been suing 800 times. And just know and then there's been no no no show for it, which is essentially like making fun of a of a surreal character, just like I do with many others. You know how many Roma YouTubers that we also make fun of? him Or i just, you know, other people? I mean, you you follow me, of course. So it's not like I live my life. or say Of course, I've been tweeting about this guy mostly for the last a few days because it's totally
00:48:48
Speaker
I wasn't proportion, obviously. But the thing is that they're trying to build this case in the sense that there is this sort of persecution, like we're bullying and stalking. But we're doing, this is not bullying, this is not stalking. It's posting his own content, his own surreal content on his own social media, on his own website. And we just maybe take a screenshot of the page. It's not illegal to screenshot a page or to post an acceptable video. I mean, this guy, I don't know if you've seen actually his own interview that he did on the radio show that I went, i did it I don't know if you see that I did actually that episode, it was a few days ago, like the guy himself went on the show and and what happens essentially is like the guy who was running the show, he said that they were started making fun of me, they started playing like his brain slide on radio and actually the the host of the show said that the only should thank me for what happened because like this is of course something that made the news but it's not like something you know
00:49:41
Speaker
which is going to be at any sort of relevancy irreleevancy from a criminal standpoint. Like, its I'm not going to get sued because, like, as he said, he usually said the host of this guy, like, you know, judges, you know, a prosecutor don't have time to waste any sort of crap. Just like all the other, you know, 700 life suit or, like, criminal charges that he tried to push me. And so, yeah. i mean yeah i yeah yeah Sorry, sorry. No, I understand your your perspective and and I get that. I just want to ask you, Can you see this just this from his perspective that he's at home at 2 a.m.
Moral Implications of the Hoax
00:50:16
Speaker
His phone starts burning up because he's being named as the Trump shooter. I mean, it's absolutely absurd. happy But can you see this from his perspective that
00:50:28
Speaker
going on maybe Maybe, I don't know, move away from him or just leave him alone? Like, like can you see that? Like, from his perspective, but can you see it at all? Like, do you have you thought about it from his perspective without without for one second absolving him of all the, you know, harassment that he's done to you and John and everyone else? But can you can can what do you think of this but when when I say, like, can you see it from his perspective? I mean, as ah as I said on the on the interview I've done with the Hubigot, which is going to get published from a moral perspective, I ah so i absolutely agree. like if If I was in in his his position, I would probably believe it, to be shown on the you you know the entire world, and John Stuart Shurrow being identified as ah and the shooter of Trump. But at the same time,
00:51:16
Speaker
What I'm trying to say is that I don't see this as ah something which is going to have legal repercussions. So again, I'm not trying to, you know, come here and just hear i and say what is wrong. I mean, I understand it's wrong. Like if when it comes to a moral judgment, I mean, objectively, when it comes to my moral code, it's probably I understand it's something that got out of hand. Again, it was supposed to do a It's about a joke limited to the little bubble of of the food world here, like the many that were done before, just to have a laugh. And of course, computer experience. So I mean, from a moral standpoint, I totally understand the responsibility. And I'm not trying to find any justification of it. And of course, I'd be busy if it happened to me. But at the same time, I probably wouldn't you know try to sue or push the election, because I think it's futile. But and when it comes to to the fact about living alone, ah
00:52:03
Speaker
I guess it depends on how the you define all of this, because let's say I start not worrying about it. But for example, like yeah like it's done today, like literally maybe half an hour ago, I just ah but posted like ah one of a shorter accept of the of one of his videos from his his YouTube a channel and he just instantly like after five minutes because obviously I i guess they're stuck in my account flagging me for copyright infringement sending me like a totally nonsensical and incredibly funny like report that came out in my mail so I mean I'm not gonna you know
00:52:35
Speaker
Just like I said in the in the in the radio show yesterday, I'm not like persecuting everyone. I'm not just not a stalker or like a bully or whatever. This guy just does this stuff by himself. He makes like this delirious, you know, press statement on the website. He posts these sort of absurd videos, absurd songs. And me, just like everybody else, like if you search his name on Twitter, even before this thing started, even before the initiative started, there were and hundreds of people, you know, posting his video and making fun of him and just just to set the record straight. I mean, yeah, there might have been some people who tried to kill him and suck it to the side. Of course, I have absolutely
00:53:10
Speaker
nothing to that, just to support this video and make fun of women, that's it. So when it comes to leaving him alone, I mean, I'm just going to definitely say that I'm not going to try anything like this with him or any other person ever again, because and I probably, you know, when I don't know something, I think something honestly really changed with the ah we we Twitter ah since the maybe in the last few months, because I realized even outside of the, you know, the huge situation, there's just some it tweets now that are maybe algorithm stuff or just new system of engagement that just blow off for some for for no reason even when you know when I've done something I realized there's something going on and that's probably what happened you know if it was maybe a few months ago like this thing would have been probably you know being you know fenced around the you know the football villainy yeah exactly but of course maybe you know if you post on the video you're not threatening to sue me or randomly insulting you know probably
00:53:58
Speaker
there's a solid chance like me or just anybody else I'm going to make fun of him because again, it's not a crime, it's not nothing. I actually, you know, but you so you see the thing, I think you pretty much leaves off this character you just created.
Violi's Enjoyment of Attention
00:54:10
Speaker
You realize that pretty much the only way you can get relevancy is doing this sort of stuff. And I wouldn't be surprised if actually like secretly happy because the moment me and maybe other people start, you know, Posting in videos, making fun of me. It's going to be back like to ah to where it was like five years ago, just being a you know lonely, 40 years old, and then this little woman is somehow just running on a relevant website. And I think he's actually doing this on purpose. He does this delirious you know press anyway and I'm suing ah Twitter for $50 billion. $50 billion. fifty billion
00:54:44
Speaker
yes god And I'm doing Omen. So I guess he's actually built a character out of this and he actually wants to you know push us to do this sort of stuff. So of course I'm not going to um not goingnna push again with ah with with him or any other person with the Sam Hyde style tweets with him, but you know when it comes to this sort of stuff, making fun of him or just the video. I understand. Well, this has been an insane week and this is, I've i've been an independent journalist since 2012 and this is the most insane story I have ever come across, the Marco Violi internet phenomena. And every time, I said it on our Monday pod, that every time I think that this has reached the the the pinnacle, that it can't get crazier,
00:55:29
Speaker
the thing just spins out of control into something else. um But it's good to hear that, I mean, at least that you feel that, OK, after this, that you're not going to do something similar again, because, I mean, it's not with him or like with anyone else in general. It's not just with him. um I just realized that maybe sometimes I don't know, maybe another Roma YouTuber might be identified. I don't know what I can. Or, you know, ah russian whatever a whether pro-Russian, you know, Sephardis leader in Ukraine. like so No, I don't want to. I remember that, yeah. I remember that that that tweet as well. No, look, um thank you so much, Mussolini. Dean Clanger. For coming on and really appreciate it. And um and and and I and i but know that you you know this has been an intense five days and so long five days yeah ah for you. But so thank you for coming on and giving your side and explaining a little bit what's happened and and who Marco Violi is and and who you know your interactions with him and so on.
00:56:28
Speaker
So I really appreciate that. um pleasure everyone Thank you so much. Everyone else, we will be back on Monday. Take care of yourselves and each other. Until next time. Ciao, ciao.