Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to this new episode of Tierra Libertad.
Speaker: technology in agriculture and the dangers the capitalism.
Speaker: In this episode, I receive Tanguy Martin. An agronome of training, Tanguy is also a local to European.
Speaker: Our exchange is mainly focused on his essay, Cultiver the Commun, a release of capitalism by the land. In this book, Tanguy comes back to the fundamental role that the appropriation of the earth has played in the birth of capitalism and on the effects destructive that this logic continues to produce on societies, ecosystems and human rights.
Speaker: In counterpoint, he explores the and
Speaker: Hello Tanguy, thank you for accepting this invitation and welcome to the podcast Tierra Libertad. Hello, you for the invitation. So for starting, could you tell us more about you and your journey?
Speaker: I'm Tanguy Martin, work and I'm working on the agriculture, democracy, justice in agriculture and alimentation.
Speaker: France. pria pre de manard beevval mil don de ferranes pass ah not tamon they callif se saint frontier is the ter one call ah collective pool security so elderly mo as merci togepo said prisonestion don pore or viv du sogege rure par don livre couere anti tule tv le comma sortted with capitalism butla And of
Speaker: umfeziana andtre androla In a
Speaker: It's to the the
Speaker: And so the peasants who, in the regime of the feudal, the problem is a guaranteed access to the land and their subsistence. They will not have access to their subsistence, they will have to sell their work force continue to nourish themselves.
Speaker: And so in creation capitalism passes by a rise land, luc said please doter directly liisan cruure ah or you unique investors So in
Speaker: to be able to launch capitalist exploitation by the land taking into the colonial space. The capitalism
Speaker: So that is really one of the fundamentalists of capitalism. Vast subject, we can talk about it for hours. So to France, field?
Speaker: not mon for procy Yes. ah as you beie do thepartia goodant and die m ccpi to more van m six said do dear likepato be don doesn in take you and yeahvi de division to incorporat letter some system fiel shitish almon de raisono composisance pireu lumoage sitimu po javao butre po jean gen alu that the modern or the capitalist period, because I think not at from the problem. It could be analyzed for a we a little tendency fall into these traverses.
Speaker: There are some inspirations in the medieval period that we can take, but it wasn't better before, far from there. And, actually, there are plenty of things pretty moches that been passed in agriculture,
Speaker: sous la pression du capitalisme au XXe siècle, notamment France. Mais il y a eu aussi des conquêtes sociales, des choses extrêmement intéressantes, et qui se du
Speaker: There is a reform that comes with the
Speaker: A right access to land with a loan fixed by the prefectural law of a modic way, It has a very long time for the proprietor to commit the practices of his locator.
Speaker: because the the
Speaker: it lu So sorecha islet more lesultareuc says it the say that it's a quasi-proprietary. ah when i said jeu lufi du travalater deandro these desire bi re ah blarinoic ah or uppiar and That the example, an example of reform very interesting and
Speaker: which has perhaps vocation to need to.
Speaker: um iquifioparttinit trado letter acujily equalka it soundswy between indian and a a Unfortunately, these institutions are rather devoted and instrumentalized with a vision and identifiable of the agriculture and and don't have the right to say anything in this story.
Speaker: We can keep in mind that the XXe siècle in France im needconque sua ah a ahotu or sortto de luqueli beral ah or do we need to
Speaker: Effectivement, the syndicalism agricultural in France a complex question, which I will surely discuss in another episode. Why is regulation of the agricultural only by the market? Is it not adapted to the issues that it is around the market? What it that the idea that the soil is the soil and la la It could be, or could be a the
Speaker: niandra um What does that mean? That would mean that it would be a like
Speaker: son bien peut détruire la chose appropriée, qu'on appelle l'abusus, un droit qui est issu du droit latin.
Speaker: Et donc ça, ça pose tout un tas de questions sur un petit peu le... you didn't yeah doop work ah let remember a works on a planet don't don't getism you don'tudanniuch in ontaldo and i lo rome the to everything is encadrado by the laws and it's not caricatured and simple as But it's really a lot of questions.
Speaker: don And in a capitalist caps telling and remarhi function don deu and with the to give resources in the way of accumulating capital and so to maximize the rentability the investment for making profit.
Speaker: And if we take that, to Allouer la Terre aux usages les plus productifs, au sens productif de profit.
Speaker: de l'espèce humaine, parce que l'usage le plus productif de la Terre aujourd'hui, c'est de faire du logement. Donc fait, si on devait allouer les terres de cette manière-là, en disant qu'on allouait l'allouer à...
Speaker: to what is the most efficient in terms of profit, we would have an immense zone of aviation on the whole France, for example. And so we could not live on the whole earth. So there is and and how we will renew this resource.
Speaker: in addition, there is a need to be able to superimpose different uses on the same surface, on the same place. Because fact, the Earth is what we call It serves to produce food, but it also provides the landscape. It an event recreational space for a walk. It can be a spiritual space for a lot of people.
Speaker: um so so you carbon probablytro mathematics so aqui dulaverity sovakyoerpa faimo nizma ah proju moation menly butisted parme It's a to mean you could Well, the same thing is
Speaker: The anthropology and history are going be able to manage the terms of the land that by the market. And even historically, for example, an economist like Leon Valras, who is one of the pairs of economics classic, who doesn't necessarily be someone who is opposed to the market.
Speaker: They said that the earth is complicated in economy, in addition, it's not a merchandise that is manufactured, so maybe would be the case of the nationalization. And that's the pair of the classic economy that says that. So we can still ask ourselves questions, according to a large pen traditional ideological tradition, that the market is not the right way to manage the earth.
Speaker: Justement, it's what I was asking. Is it the idea of releasing the alimentation of the capitalization of the sphere is necessarily a gauche, or a revolutionized? mean, from there, we can start with big theories all, love it, but...
Speaker: um are little bit of a schematical and we look at what's going on in history and in the world since the capitalism exists, we see that the an it doesn't work in any case.
Speaker: What I know about the is and devalorized.
Speaker: And so even because the agricultural agricultural, the mechanization, the chinesis,
Speaker: Today, farmers, yes, have perhaps physical work less difficult than before, but, despite everything, they always have lot of work. we see that despite the the the free exchange,
Speaker: the likeyro on is that called ybraon the food in the world has not regressed since. And even in France, which is supposed to be a great agricultural power, there are plenty of people, there are about 10% of the population who recoured to the alimentary. There are a number of people, so not people who are under the soil of poverty, who are eating a meal of food for economic problems. So it's not very effective to fight against the food. And in addition, it has a very environmental cost absolutely astronomical. It defies the biodiversity, it participates to the climate, it perturbe the cycles of the water.
Speaker: or really it's a system that doesn't work I think that what we can say about that is that if we study really in a naive and empiric the thing the capitalism in the alimentation think we could do it in a lot of activity but in the alimentation in the agriculture it doesn't work and so I have to say that it's question survival So, after, is it a question of gauche?
Speaker: I have the impression that the right is nihilist and so, I have the impression that, aujourd'hui, it is defended only by people who are being elected. me But, uh, well, it's...
Speaker: The phrase of Marx was that the capitalists will perish in the ice ice ice ice. The question that we have today is that, as far as we are going to go, we will perish with them in the ice ice ice ice. It's not very cool, so it will have to do something quite quickly.
Speaker: <unk> But, is it an idea revolutionary? don't know if it's an idea revolutionary. In for So
Speaker: Thank you Tanguy for this very interesting answer. And going to continue on this question of transition in order to capitalism. Can you tell us what role the state plays or could he play in a communalization the agricultural land?
Speaker: And what are, according to you, the limits of his intervention? and Just before say what I'm going to say, I'm insulating in a and which is
Speaker: au dépassement ou au dépérissement de l'État, en tout cas de l'État au sens moderne
Speaker: Voilà, je m'inscrive pleinement là-dedans. um But at the point of it's very pragmatic. si We see that the options revolutionary at short term, the perspectives of grand soir are not necessarily there.
Speaker: And that the wait or o a c du costre or like condition possibility du go so may also designed to to the intermediate action would be in an an ah jole ram puro marism a ah boston there is the to a battle.
Speaker: ahnita it um dulabata
Speaker: at traver le re with the state as it is today, we can build institutions who are radicals, who are already there, in a post-capitalist society. And the idea on the table is, for example, the social security system,
Speaker: We have to can put to make great radical reforms that are already there and that could survive the of capitalism
Speaker: and So the configuration rapport force, can allow this type of radical reform. So it is necessary to do it.
Speaker: So it is not to
Speaker: But we can still have an ambition before have abolished the Etat. I think that what is...
Speaker: C'est-à-dire d'avoir des choses qui se créent. La sécurité sociale, finalement, elle est instituée par une loi ou des ordements en 45-46. the you know some system tipo sobi ra family a but know as je frankeloppeo robville be jail as security rianttere but vi j later the
Speaker: gfer but in fact, after it capitalism. ah well you see in The is se paraer i and know sortmo if for back what i certainly in this strategy so that the
Speaker: revolutionnaires, proto-revolutionnaires, qui, finalement, favorisent le dépérissement de l'État ou pourraient survivre à l'État.
Speaker: Je pense qu'on a des institutions qui relèvent vraiment ces déjà-là, donc voilà, je... I'll give you little teasing, but we'll come back later. But there are examples agriculture this subject. There's no class IQ.
Speaker: Maybe you could talk a
Speaker: Yeah, well, actually...
Speaker: um see ah luinis material schna more less solo visual perceive eucommunismism ah and that, as it's quite easy to build because Stalin the USSR
Speaker: well telling the your assessor on sotupaullinist and na ne gro cho zavoir have gen while we measure non-communism what else says to more and build mo satam a la yeah onru um even what were the cold cause and the soft cause.
Speaker: in the the of the Soviet bloc. And, for example, think that one of
Speaker: and mon in the Soviet Union and that they did not have at benefit from the capitalization. that it created feeling, and that this feeling was then captured by the extreme-right, which is another problem. But really, there are many to imagine the collectivization of the Earth, which is not the great bond front of Mao, nor the cold cause and the soft cause.
Speaker: and and in Berman it's really to study how it was going to happen in cold cause and the soft cause there were maybe things that weren't as bad as that in these organizations and in plus it evolved to the level of un nivo you storie are The in 17 is the it I to
Speaker: be me ahroilillarois franc booialet terre grico de la lu maant so There's something very interesting with the that production and the entry of France in the capitalism.
Speaker: put that said like have original frances prisonir neutrally umla look in arranging the co previous eerpa you dont say look at c desonquere issu called svila napoleo ninety two hundred are circuitulate yeah ahfin on
Speaker: It's the of it In fact, between 1804 and 1950, agriculture will remain an agriculture um dis vison cat ah ah dis new sun saant leg culture valesttin like equal culture proto-capitalist where farmers produce their own subsistence sell the surplus to the cities.
Speaker: And so there, we will have between 50% and 30% of the active population française who will work the land.
Speaker: but luxessisyre franzeky gi wrotepe on capitalismism the capitalism sit on donny manufacture don justri evenvan tremon don and meva pa remo sitton or don don like get to e and So but France. And it will be until the end of the Second World War.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: we, that yeah yes it's a there is this not
Speaker: And so, the the
Speaker: state decides to make the agricultural capital with the aid of a minority of the farmers. And for the do, it will have to embark this minority the farmers in their demand rights, in their giving power.
Speaker: it's going to be the creation of these institutions.
Speaker: They had touched rampant financier, they were the oil in this system. So it's going to broken the proprietors. to raise their arms and modernize the agriculture, to make the tractors and the chiming in the fields.
Speaker: And for that, it's important to embark on the farmers, because we don't have envie of having revolt of 30% of the active population, it's not at all acceptable in the political world. And it's important to embark on the farmers there.
Speaker: ah a du conva create this institution likeel lano um ah And because street ah sta fer me is any wasant yeah didn wellform so Edgar Pisani is the minister of De Gaulle, even if he is a socialist, be a socialist after the end of his life.
Speaker: And he will be in place ah you know complex So, and lisa fer nux marie devan de ta rico institution coger ri and hospitalit is saniaricco you an re nire dirma tellter is hapa vonduea tellperson is chandria terut troperson ah evos regularly ah lurid lavo the tarigorilu lupri de tago la france so restta asimundic papo uriter of va brazilta um And the second thing is
Speaker: And so, also, for being able to sell a the right of the modern, classic. It is also the accord of the state, it is to suite to an study ah do it of the right to buy by a commission which is the agricultural and the state.
Speaker: It's called the Commission Department of Orientation Agricola. It's not very interesting, but it's just to keep in mind that the allocation of the resources in the is shared between the market for the market,
Speaker: paul levan and institutions who are all over the land, independent of the regulation, so the SAFER and the control of the structures.
Speaker: So we have already there, there are institutions who exist, who exist, who are completely capitalistic, even in a way ah liro du lu in person The
Speaker: The right to access the land by location not to a merchant.
Speaker: and so, of the way counterintuitive, these social conquests are what will allow to and So
Speaker: ahandres sula co de monier So it's not really a fantastic guy the end. You mentioned the
Speaker: And if you
Speaker: Very quickly, the the
Speaker: It's a particular society because we have the the associations of protection of nature and the environment.
Speaker: Their role is buy and to sell some land. But when they revend the the fix the state says that the priorities for access to land, it's going to be...
Speaker: And so, the FFAR, they have to, in regard
Speaker: So, this function that is
Speaker: a little bit on the logic marchand, or in any case, the logic capitalistic maximization of profit, because there is no competition in the most off-froats. The second thing is that they are titular of a law of preemption, so that means that when there is a bank who happens out their intermediary, they can eventually, according to some criteria, again once, fix by the state, substitute a initial acquiesce, buy buy
Speaker: du va varietyor pump sore san revis criier caci has this team could appreciate roche to runfo simone dehiterchie parletta elvoardiaba amre the um So,
Speaker: So, we see that our lives are very, very, in-dehors of the logic of the classic, liberal, that we can know in this system, and that it comes to act that the earth is not a merchandise like this. So, this is very beautiful, and, actually, for...
Speaker: ah who All our neighbors, and even ailleurs in the an institution that allows us to get out of the market on their purchase and their price.
Speaker: The problem is the organization of the agricultural sector. is to say that the syndicality and the institutions have been created an where the agricultural population was the majority of the rural population and part the substantial population.
Speaker: yeah in participantseldo de lapo france Today, the are 1,5% of the population, population. So and a decision to decide.
Speaker: But they behave in a start the principle that the farmers want to define all them what is good for agriculture, but it means what is the territories, the landscape, the alimentation, the environment, the climate.
Speaker: without having no money to the all of its orientations. ah For reasons both symbolical, because the agriculture remains figure very French and and all the and and capacity capacity to blockage.
Speaker: but this capacity bo casually detpa power ab jaance delay touch on on the re long milon cat manyday rutor ah ah don look at we can he <unk>o like a pastit dere of by letri okay yeah so do in restaurant like i best them at har or the will So the and
Speaker: and So, I think that, in a
Speaker: For example,
Speaker: in these organizations, so it would be necessary to integrate them. ah The system of representation of the syndicalism agricultural, today, is completely biaised. I don't want to go into detail because will take while, but it's quite documented.
Speaker: So there, there is a problem on the perimeter lookingour the the la as ah please sure it objective key with song ah bycriic simone pa um plaistron kolujiki trerebu crian char once his organization in a
Speaker: yeahosco servevo has strong effective upwards which is a aure ah yeah on the up you know modi du but the yeah And and Access to Land.
Speaker: There are plenty exchanges on what are the good the bad uses. There were reforms in to transform radically their farm regime? Could you give us some examples?
Speaker: going to be kind question I'm going to that fact, we have talked about it because technically in reform of the regime of the the
Speaker: in the economy, including the World Bank or the FMI, or other exchange exchange at the level smaller levels, will push to the merchandising of the rights fonciers. There are still countries where the land belongs to the state, so these are the state regimes and the state yeah yeah said This land is managed by the on basis in the South Africa, where it generates certain of conflicts.
Speaker: and the able to take problems. I think in Mali, for example, think one of the Sankara was assassinated and reversed was this relationship
Speaker: this relationship to maintain a right and or from cki the agriculture which was not fully integrated into the capital. I think that in the imaginary collective, the question of changement review foncier in the capital, it is associated with the idea reform agrares and associated with an imaginary rather latino-american.
Speaker: you clo genvo with cittra du So
Speaker: It's a slogan invented by Florence Magogne, Mexican revolutionary. And one of the great agres reforms, a little emblematic of the XXe century, is the reform agres of Mexican Revolution, which creates a common regime on the Mexican ah territory, which tries to emancipate the workers of the territory.
Speaker: It's not a the internal power and re-accapement of the agricultural economy by the old pali enant the land of have no land, but they have no land of economy.
Speaker: commerce. So they will put the peasants a regulated way in the commerce. So it has not completely worked, but it clearly in the right sense.
Speaker: And what's interesting that this regime of the city,
Speaker: finally, the abolition the regime of the Eridos, it's not Florence Magone who puts the word in place, it's the revolution zapatista. And in fact, it a little bit concomitant with the Oshia Paz, which is one of the great revolutionary movements around the issue of access to the earth, recent.
Speaker: And so, since the Eridos are abolished by the Mexican government, there a popular movement. The causality would be bit complicated to put in mind, but in all cases, there is a symptom of the cause of the communs concomitant with a and revolution in Mexico. So there, we have some interesting information.
Speaker: ah pay i song even dead but termi tuipposis so to ah do rio um celllo the ge committeeist ah pier um law t key k d liy vouchchatorque degen fraie so they do the se And put back to one yeah in u on google in correationtro as a first untralatability the region poli ear And
Speaker: And for example, they cite the coup state of 1964 in Brazil. um go yeah know proe from marero bra brazilli In reform for poor meronas super and you what ah are says sits setsp mi needs to And,
Speaker: agriculture is less important, or in the I in mind.
Speaker: lookses again move from my strong pay and tersson like out I'm going to change a little bit of subject to talk about an idea that you defend, the social security of the alimentation.
Speaker: What would it be like, and according to you, in which measure is its work? Yeah, we were a little bit talking about that earlier when I said that...
Speaker: alimentary system oriented by capitalism has led to the exploitation of the in the transformation alimentary, are not a job super.
Speaker: the the chain, we see that there are environmental restrictions and that it doesn't allow an alimentation quality. or in quantity sufficient. So there is a And measure society?
Speaker: not so rivia cor um um and
Speaker: how could we start from what was done in 1946 with the and
Speaker: which is ze reant ah the and is So the
Speaker: So there we have the health insurance.
Speaker: this convention would be decided by social security and social health care, local, organized democratic and who would say that we would do a society together around such a food and 150 € per person and per month would be
Speaker: production, and in its quality nutritional, symbolical, etc. yeah So the second pillar the democracy. democracy The third pillar is is produced.
Speaker: The idea is to have an income which is to regulate social inequalities. But it's to say that the produced in society because society exists and therefore society has ju donte yeah la partition said valer ah umummo walllihi i ba vi niro um madi in negelit duncovel restef chessis ne mu duvara du san san contoro pakistani pamoir a de pance shi ah de prodduy
Speaker: auprès de professionals conventionnés, le tout financé par de la cotisation sociale. C'est ça l'idée de sociale de l'alimentation. Et donc, ce n'est pas une sortie du capitalisme.
Speaker: Ce n'est pas tout à fait une sortie même du marché puisqu'il un marché très encadré, très régulé, mais un marché quand même
Speaker: of the food of the food of the food of the food.
Speaker: long pool she said the pririmin boli travao de fijali monter viu rimi laronos solveva viis le ramur ah yeah liprodu or just pri orchestra justellaer It also allows us to orient and transform the a substantial part of the food food food ah don show two su tetro de case ah the security association ma asron ah And so it's in that we defend. Is it realisable?
Speaker: um ah technically, juridically, yes. There is no need to the Sixth Republic. There no need to be released from the European Union. We have worked it the jurists.
Speaker: It is totally envisageable. After, the question is the
Speaker: which aims to popularize this idea, to defend it can do a and so the all kinds of experiments, of all kinds of practices at the exist before the Second World War II, that even sous Vichy, Pétain will create the location of the workers and in 1946.
Speaker: And so, to arrive at this level of appropriation. So, it goes through the education popular,
Speaker: It's not universal, it's... It's... It's... It's...
Speaker: misa perid ba duty still the work ispa is so mo she and allusic le aus are someones pure asquitileques su conreo de bi in seno france <unk> san san java la for toiamo e dulualle ah for a c the me complexity de reform ah you usual plant pool ruha ma javia yeah su dos on li remotea so yeah They could be instituted by the
Speaker: Thank you for the to the social security and alimentation. We could probably talk long about arguments for, the critics, the question of its feasibility, you have already made concise presentation and interesting.
Speaker: So now, for a little bit of activism, face to There is the political action.
Speaker: How do you evaluate the in and
Speaker: they say like he some suppose on fat ago And the world in general and perhaps in France and in some countries in particular. And it's a little bit in an between-deux, it's to say that for very long time, we were so the communist China. And in fact,
Speaker: these experiments at large scale, think they're going to have to be better worse. And it's not the place to make the best and worse of the
Speaker: the of these regimes, but in any case, it has about. And so, this know how much we can say things,
Speaker: There is no more models. In the on
Speaker: So we have two roles there. One is going to to etc.
Speaker: And the the
Speaker: Well, this is the end of the 90s. 20, 30 years later, we realize that it is not revolutionary it is totally incapable of reverse the vapor.
Speaker: And new two se on epu like is on the come on not i'm the she emon do miro experience command de fmar who kid you up all the from
Speaker: I think there is something that relates to autonome temporaire.
Speaker: » On
Speaker: La boue à Notre-Dame-des-Landes, je pense que les hadistes les plus endurcis sont pas fanatiques de la boue à Notre-Dame-des-Landes, mais c'est… what they have been doing for a long time, they say that want to
Speaker: and sa vier mu de ro restaurant soe ave de aroeritori some pade actually liberrter So to the So it means working with the elected elected officials, working with the political parties, working with the unions. I think one of the very strong points was the capacity to embark the CGT Vinci in the fight against Notre-Dame-des-Landes.
Speaker: ah in plan vocahuki sore she do And and we're going to be moving an alliance that will surpass just of ultra-gauche and political autonomy with different forces.
Speaker: That's from the point view the people the more radical and the more revolutionary. yeah do not cookte yeah tutanta And the
Speaker: very legalists and who, in fact, accept to who are revolutionists.
Speaker: And that I think it's really a very important creuset of the strategic alliance in France today and which has created something very interesting where la you this su out ah reformary revolution ah a lipalet mo if ii yeah to pronoun The But it is made of side with the idea of composition.
Speaker: It is to say that we don't have all same political horizons, we don't have same ideological traditions. but we are able to a
Speaker: And so that, it will be mobilized. So will be crystallized, I think, around the date of Notre Dame de Longue, but will be mobilized throughout a lot of fights. And think it's what they're doing today, the rise of the earth, despite the great difficulties action and the repression very strong. And I think that the repression of the rise of the earth and the height of the political ambition which is brought by this
Speaker: ah poantiste ah lareamon a gu duruchi retoreso the deepesttc ah in time day knew niconori kiss aafot charles that bay you show the pi um um it's a direct etcter du la napu said to the
Speaker: extremely different and anddu girba we ah in reform ah this affair or in reform ah ah dula restaurantron like say alaa far probably if you see i did not and fans of legalism and political legalism.
Speaker: e a la four ah la preion needs shali ba sin ah and lu fa ro rio likeron the the it i'm the fa so ccon A
Speaker: The OGM is to be authorized in the law. And in fact, we see that there is an interpensation between the fauchers who make an election illegal ah e de jacquesvo sayie de ferac deo ala some and the Assembly. So, there is all that.
Speaker: To talk quickly about the link where you work, can you tell more about the missions and actions this organization, but also about the limits that can find a model that even the organization assumes?
Speaker: Terre de de
Speaker: what is can we do with land and that it is a vocation to bring voice to the society civil the land.
Speaker: So that's the big principle of Terre de Lin.
Speaker: the question of the We need to talk about the property. And the best way to talk about the property is confront it pragmatically. And so one of the options preza v partage la turkeyqueish was say to the that
Speaker: in agroecology, in agriculture, and in agriculture, and in the territory. So to put in place a principle of solidarity between inhabitants the territory who have a little bit of money who will decide put it there rather than livre A,
Speaker: and allow the development agriculture. In this action, Terre de France on about 400 farms.
Speaker: ah a p you know instead i true once um and yourar ideas and ah sure aviion get off um lu i soundus yes good steve vernora a oka team he did the ji ba on actually could achieve on the day actually move So And
Speaker: ni pretty much as fond do but yeah <unk>ter de vinnao command de mar on la jeque and all It's complicated because we're not out the capital, so we have to pay attention to the capitalist society, to pay attention to the bourgeois. So all that remains little broken at some level, but it's already an enthousiasmant.
Speaker: yeah it's also something to say, look, the private private, bourgeois, the maximization of profits, it's not a fatal thing. In fact, we can organize it differently, including society. Today, we can find people who want to organize it differently. The link is mobilized.
Speaker: umni be neval leron chemer piach jean um ti dero associationity from The France today.
Speaker: So, see schmoke shoeske j j srena and respond to thema um sweet and I
Speaker: land in France is 28 million hectares, so 10,000 hectares on 28 million. It's not like change agriculture in France. It's not we're going change the the necessary to reflect on the scale.
Speaker: France. and So this limit is there. And then there's a way to find it in an economic capitalist economy. so depend should botro okay ah the connecty yeah and pafapa foren while yeah but did negative pi and then ni and well i plan these needers so and and It on it I
Speaker: and to say at the same time that the agriculture paisan and biologically works. We always say there is no solution for the agriculture in-deliver pesticides, there solution in-deliver of the endettement.
Speaker: And we are always trying to prove that there are different ways and they are not even in the
Speaker: that is the the the France at all sair the movie dis own and on edge yeah umris like It
Speaker: and of the side it would allow to lead this culture and eventually to go see the you it and
Speaker: and political actions, that lets us make force of putting a force which at the end could be gagnant. That allows you to rebondir on our question.
Speaker: You said that the actions of Terres de allows to move the lines. What are, the
Speaker: if we think about it, that earth would become a common, for example.
Speaker: in the idea that this resource is preserved and not destroyed. and call lu chancelet andla on the andutia shop no ah lales from like soer france So it's the community.
Speaker: What is the legitimate community for managing the land? And clearly, the current tour of the table of the SAFER or the control the structures for the market of the land, We not the and the so orientation.
Speaker: ah thear a ladies intro c a liisonetro Where are the
Speaker: ahpoli agriculture someletment decoratco The corralled by the agricultural needs, and
Speaker: ah example and The region is the Venice, which is the region of the Maritime region around La Rochelle, which in general produces only the blé.
Speaker: So people who want to everyone is only producing the milk. do only produce the milk? Because we have invested heavily in the port palace, we have export the grain.
Speaker: yeah i don' compet to ku media orientte we proja du gra lepaig gra or u is a bittanni terta projo gigra poor li partte partudan ah equal clearly viju betaak no and can So make sense.
Speaker: in migaba con sweetna says so niceilap pourri irige lierriel convavavi nasisittala that's ah and
Speaker: i don't in building institutions of the land in common at long term which
Speaker: based on the aspirations of the population. And in branching, there are of the
Speaker: where they are. So there are these issues very pragmatic, very rapid, which require either laws or even regulations, which totally feasible in the VIII without being taken from the European Union. And at the same time, all this participates to build the idea that we could manage the food and food and food like communs at the end, in the capital.
Speaker: Okay. Are you seeing models or wars in other countries that could inspire you in France? Can you give examples movements in for an appropriation of the
Speaker: they can organize them to to
Speaker: which is to that he has been given by the past with political assassinats, etc. So there is something very inspiring.
Speaker: We talked a little bit earlier, but... and lavinun zapati disi special shepas so so so homoti mua sanzi thes abuleme second and this experience extrememo results um and caprea will sit tu ta one the mar sound the region ko mutammo and a ship saen maad dish so manypa and calledna on sankarico on a for and ki did do yeah and and pagu one zi berjaza likeeter each fute control is like apamentely go system cu find is it ah i film the productionand is triel andla yeah yeah dilutexreman piance So
Speaker: Well, certainly in the and
Speaker: yeah they were producing food for the
Speaker: ah on pense aussi à des luttes contre l'accapement des terres dans le delta du Niger, voilà, il y a plein de choses qui se sont passées là, et si on regarde dans l'espace européen, donc sur la question des communs, il y je pense, deux endroits où il y a des choses qui sont faites de manière intéressante, c'est-à-dire la Via Campesina, donc il y a une...
Speaker: a coordination of the the the population rural.
Speaker: very institutional, on the international law, which is not the most invested space today. he said theka astro you see the derivative um montte for laguov's de detectment i see when wantal when And
Speaker: they have in part managed and managed. So there are things very interesting to look at. yeah know far yeah laphon foncerri romonez And the to the land.
Speaker: so like so there in Ireland, which is an area of great landowners, with an exploitation very capitalist, even if it but very capitalist, very industrialized their work.
Speaker: And there is a foreign reform in Ecosse which is coming to sacralize some rights the village of the access to the land and to their alimentation.
Speaker: So it's very honest, but there are things that happen. Thank you on a
Speaker: Well, not only on the
Speaker: who has been a factor of radicalization on these issues of politics agricultural and alimentary. It's Reprendre la
Speaker: It's in the collection Anthropocène du Seuil. think it's really very nice to read. It's very long, it's very evocative and very mobilisative. So think that's really very incontourable thing today.
Speaker: And it's also a which in
Speaker: And it allows you to put a of challenges. After, we had produced a lot of things with the also the...
Speaker: did ro de subbelitter notaire because as's one of france when you want an astronnae libain like city fautter ah la prian to the the that
Speaker: but It's a 180 pages, but I but they're quite nice and nice, and then we can go to the same collectives.
Speaker: pre yeah click t from then kiunna And in a trimestriel called Fracas. of political ecology, which I on the the podcast platform.
Speaker: So, there's a question of the question of the water question of Deter, which is on the platform Blast.
Speaker: it's here like and are going to and a and sexual in agriculture um It's pretty good. So in fact... Even in the podcast. But in all of sudden, it's really important to inform you there.
Speaker: Thank you very much. You have made excellent recommendations, some that I And and complex.
Speaker: It's a is about it. There's plenty of things.
Speaker: as yeah potentialial Thank you very much for having taken the found it very interesting, but I also learned new things during this discussion.
Speaker: Thank very much and to see you, Tanguy. Thank you.
Speaker: I hope you enjoyed this conversation. If it's the leave a note of 5 stars on your favorite podcast platform. It's thanks to your support that more people can discover these essential subjects.
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