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Free Weekly Episode - Italy Qualify For Euro 2024, Was Mudryk Foul A Penalty?, Probable Finals Squad, Can Azzurri Retain Trophy? & Much More (Ep. 380)
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From Italy qualifying to Euro 2024 after dramatic draw against Ukraine, penalty controversy after Cristante's foul on Chelsea attacker Mudryk, how Barella and Chiesa biggest winners with Di Lorenzo and Scamacca biggest losers this international break, who Luciano Spalletti should call up to his 23-man Euro 2024 squad, to how far the Azzurri can go in Germany next summer, and previewing Juventus vs Inter Milan in Serie A as well as Baggio and Premface of the week and much, much more when Nima and Carlo break down all the main talking points from an absolutely crazy week in Italian football.
Every Monday episode of The Italian Football Podcast is free for all.
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Transcript
Italy's Euro 2024 Qualification
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Italian Football Podcast. I'm Carlo Garganese, joined, as always, by Nimat Savali. We're happy today because Italy have qualified for Euro 2024. It was the most nerve-wracking, stressful night in Leverkusen as Italy just about saw out a nil-nil draw against Ukraine, which means the Azuri finished second in Group C.
Controversial Penalty Incident: Mudryk vs. Christante
00:00:32
Speaker
and qualify for next summer's Euros, but it was almost taken away from us right at the end with a controversial penalty incident with Michaeli Mudryk and Brian Christante. We'll talk about whether it was a penalty, we'll analyse the game as a whole, and then we will look ahead to
Italy's Euro 2024 Squad and Performance
00:00:51
Speaker
the Euros. The draw is next week, of course.
00:00:53
Speaker
and we'll look at Italy's squad. What will Italy's squad be and how well can Italy do in Euros? Can we retain our title? So, plenty to talk about. Let's get into it.
Relief and Stress of Qualification
00:01:09
Speaker
Okay, so to start with,
00:01:12
Speaker
Italy draw 0-0 with Ukraine in Leverkusen. Italy went into the game just needing a draw to qualify for the Euros. But it was very, very nerve wracking. And we had to see it off in the end, the final 20 minutes. Ukraine were coming onto us and then they could have got a penalty.
00:01:34
Speaker
deep into injury time, which we'll talk about in a little bit about whether it was a penalty. But first of all, I just want to I just want to talk emotionally. I mean, I don't know. Were you happy? I was just relieved. That's the one word to describe my feelings. I was just relieved. I wasn't even happy. I didn't even celebrate or do any. I was just like. That's the only thing I did, because this has been
00:02:01
Speaker
I mean, you and me, we've watched and covered Italy for what, 20 years, 25 years, 30 years, however 35 years we've watched them. This has been the most exhausting qualifiers I can remember.
00:02:19
Speaker
And it feels like one long qualifier from the World Cup till now, which tells you everything you really need to know, because there really wasn't an end where the World Cup qualifier ended and this began, at least not mentally.
Challenges in Italy's Qualification Campaign
00:02:34
Speaker
And of course, with North Macedonia again, and Mancini quitting just a couple of months ago out of the blue, and Spaletti coming in.
00:02:43
Speaker
It has not been easy. I was just utterly relieved. You've just described the feelings of the entire qualification campaign, but I was relieved more so for just the game last night, watching those last 20 minutes.
00:03:04
Speaker
I mean, it was so stressful. So stressful. I mean, I feel like I feel like I aged 10 years in the last 20 minutes, I feel. I now look my age. Everyone says I look younger than I am. I now look my age. I mean, did you lose your hair fully, fully like completely? What's that guy's name who everyone says you look like? What's his name?
00:03:38
Speaker
I mean, I skipped a heartbeat. I think everybody skipped a heartbeat. There's a famous saying that in Italy that during the 1982 World Cup
00:03:50
Speaker
when Italy beat Brazil 3-2 and there was a famous moment right at the end of the game when Italy are holding onto the 3-2 lead where a cross comes in from a free kick and Oscar does a header and Dino Zoff makes his fantastic save right on the line and the ball just moves as he makes the save and puts the ball on the line he just moves his hand a little bit and the ball moves onto the line slightly
Analyzing the Referee's Decisions on Penalty
00:04:12
Speaker
you know, part of the ball slightly over the line, but not over, but not over the line slightly on the line. And there's a there's a there's a saying, I can't remember what the exact saying is, but kind of like that was the moment they say that everybody in Italy skipped the heartbeat, when that ball went soft, made that save, because they thought it'd gone in, it looked, you know, and that's how I felt when Mudrick went down in the penalty area. I mean, we'll come on to the penalty discussing, like, was it a penalty in a minute, but
00:04:38
Speaker
But I mean, God, yeah, just just overall just just relief because also because like, you know, we're not qualified for two tournaments in a row.
00:04:48
Speaker
Two World Cups. Two World Cups in a row, sorry. And if you go since Euro 2016, I was speaking to our friend, our good friend of the show, Adrian Del Monte, the other day, and he was saying to me, he was at the game last night, and he was saying to me, you know, if we don't qualify for this tournament, that means by the time the 2026 World Cup will have come along, that means Italy would have been to one tournament in 10 years. I mean, that's just...
00:05:14
Speaker
For me, what we were talking last week, I think it was on Thursday when I said, look, this was all psychology. Qualitatively, there is no discussion who is better out of Italy and Ukraine. Anyone who saw that game will understand that. For me, it was all about
00:05:41
Speaker
the quality, like it was all about the mental aspect of the game, pretty much. That's what it was for me is the fact that can Italy, when they started missing these chances, they created this chance, they couldn't bury it. I was just like, Oh my God, this is going to cut. You know what I mean? Like I was just, I was just playing it in my head night, you know, added minutes, injury time, you know, stuff like that.
00:06:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Those are always the thoughts that creep into your mind when you're holding onto the game, for sure. You've created more than enough chances to win. That's what we're aiming for.
Italy's Position as Group C Runners-Up
00:06:17
Speaker
We'll come onto that. First of all, just so everybody knows, we finished second in group C. Group B.
00:06:27
Speaker
I forgot. So we finished, we finished runners up in group say, uh, England win the group with 19 points and it's 20 points. Sorry. I forgot the equalized again. It doesn't
00:06:47
Speaker
Anyway, England 20 points, Italy second with 14 points. The same number of points as Ukraine, but Italy finished above Ukraine because of the head-to-head record having won the home game against Ukraine. Macedonia come fourth with eight points and Malta's no points. So, Italy qualifies best runners-up as runners-up and Ukraine go to the playoffs. The draw will be on December the 2nd.
00:07:14
Speaker
And the playoffs will be in March and the finals, of course, will be in Germany next summer in June and July. Right. So first things first, we have to talk about the penalty incident because this is what everybody's talking about. Then we'll talk about the game as a whole. So it's three minutes in time. Mudriq has the ball in the Italy penalty area. He should have the ball. That's the thing, though, that this is this is I think this is one of the most interesting situations
00:07:42
Speaker
that I'm sure they will use in when teaching refereeing courses, because it raises so many different things at once. I really think it's a very interesting situation as a whole, if you look at it, because the ball is squared into the, like, towards the center of the penalty area, right? Christante is closest
00:08:04
Speaker
to where the ball is headed. But Mudrik is traveling into that space, right? And he's got his eye fixated on the ball. He takes the ball first. Christante doesn't touch the ball. He takes out Mudrik. But Mudrik proceeds to make the worst dive I have seen since Jurgen Klinsmann in the 1990 World Cup Final. It was one of the most exaggerated
00:08:34
Speaker
embellishments and dives I've seen ever in football. It was atrocious. It's the way he flies, it should be embarrassed. Like that's all I'm going to say about the dive because it is shocking. But there is contact. So the situation then becomes OK. Because remember, it is completely up to the discretion of the referee to decide whether or not a contact warrants infringement or not.
00:09:03
Speaker
And the referee, I think, I haven't seen anything, but I think his line of reasoning was this, the way that Mudrik flew with both feet into the air, like an airplane,
00:09:20
Speaker
I think he just said there is no chance I can give a penalty for that dive. Meaning there was contact, but the contact didn't warrant enough of a contact for him to give that penalty because in his communication with the VAR, if he says anything else other than that, it falls under clear and obvious error. If he says, no, Christante took the ball first.
00:09:40
Speaker
Well, it's conclusive from the images that Cristante did not take the ball first. If he says that there was no contact, it's conclusive from the images that there was contact. So clearly, the referee was there. So exactly what happened, communicated this to VAR, which prevents the VAR from intervening as well, because it doesn't fall under clear and obvious error. So it becomes a judgment call on the pitch.
00:10:05
Speaker
And that's where the discussion should be. Was it a right or was it a correct or an incorrect call? Look, if this was 1991, there is no chance you'd give a penalty for that. None. Because they just didn't back then. Today, that is a stonewall penalty. I mean, if you look at the level that we see in Syria, La Liga, Champions League, World Cup, that's a stonewall penalty.
Debating the Penalty Incident: Replays and Referee's View
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, well, talk about Stonewall when I saw the replay from in front.
00:10:41
Speaker
towards the goal. It looks a Stonewall penalty from the first angle. They showed three replays on the TV that I was watching. The first replay, it looks a Stonewall. He shifts the ball to the right, Madrid, and then Cristante moves into his space and he, and it looks a Stonewall. It looks like he takes him out with his knee or the bottom of his knee and he takes him out. It looks Stonewall. And when that happened during the game, I just, I stood up and put my hands in my face.
00:11:11
Speaker
Because at that point, at that point, and also the friends I was watching it with did the same thing. Oh, we were talking about watching it, by the way, because that's a cliffhanger from last episode. I actually returned to my friend Arnie's house and watched it there, where Italy lost to England. So I took a bit of a gamble, but I broke into the jinx. I mean, you say that jinxes don't exist. Because they don't, Carlo. Because I just also have to share with everyone that before we did the preview on Thursday,
00:11:41
Speaker
There is zero correlation. We argued for about five minutes, me, Nimr. And Nimr was getting really angry because he was getting really angry when I said that. Because it doesn't exist. I begged Nimr before we started the part, please do not say that Italy are going to qualify for the Euros because you're a jinx and we're going to end up not qualifying. And Nimr got so angry. Of course they got this. It's not additional.
00:12:06
Speaker
Witches don't exist. Magicians don't exist. Of course they don't. They do not exist. There's nothing to do with that. Me placating your superstitions is more me being your... Let's just say Nimmin didn't say it and we qualified. I did say it to everyone else but you. That's fine. As long as I don't hear it, that's good enough for me. No, I watched it there.
00:12:33
Speaker
And the friends I was with, actually one of my friends, Andrea, I'll give a shout out to him, he walked out of the room. Well, of course he did. He walked out of the room. But that was my initial reaction. When I saw the first replay right in front, I put my hands on my head and I just thought, that's a definite penalty. It looked stone wall. Then after that, they showed two more replays. They showed one from the side and then they showed one from the back of the goal.
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, the behind one, the one... They look inconclusive. They don't show...
00:13:07
Speaker
The one from behind shows that there's contact without a doubt. Well, I don't know which one you saw. The two replays I saw, one from the side and one from behind, you might see on a different replay. They are inconclusive. They don't show contact. The one from the front, well, the one I've seen from behind, the one that I've seen, I don't know which one you've seen. The angle that I've seen, I watched it on rye. I was watching rye. Well, I was watching it on rye, but anyway. And rye said... The first...
00:13:33
Speaker
I think it was Adani's comment. I think it was Adani who was like...
00:13:42
Speaker
like that's, that's, that's a penalty. Like the, the, the silence in his voice was just like, I mean, the first, the first, listen, wherever you want to start the other two repays, the first one looks off a stone wall. It looks an absolute stone. What I would say though, is, um, I agree. I think the way that the, the, the, how dramatic he was with the fall
00:14:03
Speaker
Um, he also overrun it a little bit. Like the ball went straight through to Donna Ruma. I'm not saying that that should play a role, but sometimes in the psyche of the referee, if you overrun it and you don't have control of the ball, that does play a role in the, in the referee's decision-making. I'd also say this that, um,
00:14:20
Speaker
Mudrik was diving all game. It was awful. All game he was driving. There was one horrible one where he should have been booked in the first half when it was against Di Lorenzo. And Di Lorenzo just looked at him like, what the... This was shocking. Look, if you're going to dive, can you please do it good? Can you do it properly? What was that?
00:14:42
Speaker
I mean, he looked like, when
Italy's Tactics and Squad for Euro 2024
00:14:44
Speaker
we were nine years old, pretending to be professional wrestlers in the schoolyard, like, fake hurting each other. Like, it was amateurish, his diving. Like, it was genuinely amateurish. Yeah. So, what I'm saying is, I think that the referee and the VAR will look at that, and Mudrik has a reputation for someone that throws themselves to the ground, and that worked against him.
00:15:06
Speaker
This is exactly what I was going to say. The only reason I think he did not get that is because, again, as I repeat in the beginning, it's because the referee looked at that reaction. He knows there's contact, but the way that he dives, and it is a dive, there is contact, no doubt, and it is a dive. Both of those things, I think, are inconclusively beyond a reasonable doubt, true.
00:15:32
Speaker
And he goes, that can't be a penalty. I'm not going to give a penalty for that because that's too much of a simulation. And I think that's what hurt him in the end, to be honest. It's going to be really interesting to see how other referees come out, you know, analyze this. And I'm really keen to see what Marrelli says on this because this is one of those situations where I think he's probably the best in the world in terms of explaining the different
00:16:01
Speaker
parameters that come into play. And also, whether you agree with him or not, the way that he explains the laws of the game is truly unmatched and unrivaled. But I look, let's just say it's okay. It's okay to say Italy got away with one and that's fine. And we can acknowledge that we don't, we don't need to... Well, put it this way, it's about time we had a... I knew you were going to say that!
00:16:27
Speaker
Well, it's true. I mean, the last time Italy had a referee, the Italy Nationals, he made a ref call go their way. It was probably 1934 World Cup when Mussolini went into the referee's room before the game. That's the last time we've had a call. So exaggerated! I'm exaggerating you all!
00:16:49
Speaker
We have to go back to 1990, Mussolini calling the referee into his room before the game. Well, now there's a lot of that. I promised one of our patrons, Art Morelli, that I was going to read this to you. And after he said that, I'm going to read his message to you or his tweet to you without an ounce of feeling bad about it. He said,
00:17:18
Speaker
By the way, Nima, the next time Carlo Garganese wants to do another 120-minute special expose episode of the Italian football podcast on anti-Italian bias in UEFA FIFA refereeing, kindly remind him of today.
00:17:33
Speaker
That's fine. I mean, you know, a broken clock is right. Nineteen thirty-four! Mr. Levy! Come on! You've got to be joking! Stop. Look, there is no doubt that Italy got away with one. And to be honest, I just reminded of the when I looked at Spalletti's face, I don't know why, but I was immediately taken back to that Mourinho quote.
00:17:59
Speaker
of I'd rather be a bad and lucky coach and win than a good unlucky coach and lose. Spaletti won there. And I think given what Spaletti has gone through in his career and all the bad luck he's had, he deserved things, one thing to go his way. And he deserved that to go his way, because now he gets some peace of mind because he was literally thrown into the deep end. He had no time to prepare.
00:18:29
Speaker
if we're perfectly honest, lots of injuries, this betting scandal that exploded. I mean, let's be honest, he's not had the odds in his favor. It's not been easy for him. No, three days rest, whereas Ukraine could prepare for it properly. I mean, yeah. I think he deserved
00:18:48
Speaker
that I think he deserved it. He deserved this to go his way just based on his entire career. I think, luckily, he got away with one, but it's fine. It's fine. Let's talk about the game itself and then we'll look at the bigger picture of looking forward to the euros itself. The game itself, the way that I would summarize it is, I thought that
00:19:11
Speaker
For most of the game, if you take out maybe the first 10 minutes, in which I think Ukraine came on strongly, were pressing well, and the last 20 minutes where Italy brought on Christante and basically just played to hold out for the 0-0.
Italy's Strategy Against Ukraine
00:19:27
Speaker
If you take away those, I thought Italy were in total control of the game in terms of the ball, in terms of possession, in terms of territory. They didn't concede. Although, Donnarumma did make a couple of big says from Sudakov,
00:19:41
Speaker
and then that mudrík chance of the far post when it was a terrible defensive error from De Lorenzo when he let the ball bounce from a throw in. Apart from that, Ukraine didn't create anything. So I thought we controlled the game well
00:20:03
Speaker
I thought the positives of the game were, and this gives me hope going forward with Spelletti, is I thought our pressing and winning the ball in the Ukraine half was brilliant for long spells of this game. With the exception of, like I said, the first 10 and the last 20, I thought we were winning the ball high up. They couldn't get out Ukraine. They were struggling just to put two or three passes together because our pressing was so good. It was like Napoli. It was like the Napoli of Spelletti.
00:20:31
Speaker
in which they just don't, they smother you and don't let you out. And that's brilliant. That is something that is going to be a big weapon for us going forward. So that is something that I think Spelletti has already put his print on the team, which was great. That was great. I thought we kept the ball pretty well. We'd become in a possession team on Spelletti, which is good.
00:20:52
Speaker
The other positives I thought was... I just thought on that point, to me, that's Georgina. I mean, people talk shit about him for missing a penalty, which is he should never be allowed to take a penalty in his life ever again. But his ability to retain possession, the calm that he brings to the team in terms of his passing, in terms of
00:21:13
Speaker
It's just, I thought he was very, he was key in these two games. The way that he allows the team to build from the back, to calm things down, to change tempo was key. And to keep the ball, to keep the ball and dominate the ball, yeah. I mean, both of us, I mean, I... Give him Barrella together. I'm so annoyed that Locatelli was injured, because I really think that Locatelli Barrella's Virginia,
00:21:41
Speaker
that in this game, particularly with Ukraine playing the way they did, I think Italy would have won that game.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think, listen, I think that Georgina on the Georgina point, I think that he had, I did actually say before this, before these two games that Georgina has been playing much better for Arsenal recently. I was, I was not ready to write him off, but I was thinking he's way past his best. I thought he's shown that he does still have something to give him. He's still playing like, I mean, he's going to be a bit older by the, if he's still playing like this at the Euros, I think he does have something to give, whether or not
00:22:15
Speaker
you can still trust him against a France against England who are so ferocious on the transition, where he's going to be, you know, there was a moment when mudrick went past him at pace, for example, in the second half, didn't do anything with it, of course, because it's much rig, but
00:22:30
Speaker
But, you know, but, you know, against the really better athletic teams, there is still maybe there will be maybe a question mark there with Georgina still, but he has shown that he's got something to give still. He's he was very good in these two games. And the other positive is I thought the defense, we have to give a shout out to not only a chirpy, but Bonjourno in his first. Well, and Bonjourno, I mean, after getting a yellow card in the first 10 minutes, I thought he grew into the game really well. I thought those two were were fantastic.
00:22:58
Speaker
I liked what I saw from Buongiorno in terms of baptism by fire, and
Buongiorno's Debut in Defense
00:23:05
Speaker
I think he passed. I don't think he passed with flying colors. I think he passed. There were instances in the second half where he scared the shit out of me for a lack of better expression.
00:23:16
Speaker
But I do like, we were talking about a fairly inexperienced young lad. This was by far the biggest challenge he's ever been faced. I thought he did well. And I think he did well. No, that's fine. I'll tell you one thing that was also good about him is he's used to playing the Spelletti system. I know he pays in the back three with Djuric, but in the sense that Djuric likes, Ivan Djuric, the coach of Torino, likes playing with a very high line and pressing and being aggressive. And that's what they were doing. So he knows that
00:23:43
Speaker
I'm not sure how quick he is. I need to see a bit more of him as I'm not sure what he's like, what his pace is like. Because if you play with a high line, that is obviously, again, against better teams going to be in this shoot. But, yeah, listen, we defended well. Our defensive record's been terrible in the last year or so. I mean, just look how many goals we've conceded over the last year. I think they're the only clean sheets we've had before that last night was against a Malta.
00:24:03
Speaker
I think
00:24:21
Speaker
Their attack was better than their defence. I mean, Italy created more than enough chances to score. The problem is the finishing touch wasn't there. How many clear chances did they create? The only clear, clear chances they had were for Atezi was one-on-one. That's a clear chance. The Kiais won if the ball hadn't crossed the line. I'm not sure if the ball crossed the line. I think it might have gone out of play.
00:24:43
Speaker
If it didn't, then that's the other picture. And also Skamaka. I think Skamaka, Kiazaa, and Fratesi were really... Skamaka was offside. Yeah, I know. But I'm just saying, like, in terms of chance creation and...
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah, I know, but you can't really count. They're offside. I mean, Italy had two shots on goal. And I think for the amount of times, I mean, we were winning it off them time and time again in their own half through that great press. And I would say, yeah, we didn't really create much with it after. So I mean, that is the lack of quality in attack was again evident. The amount of possession and ball we had in the opposite and on transitions, it wasn't sterile possession in the opposite. And this was breaking, winning the ball off them.
00:25:19
Speaker
and then break it into space and we couldn't create chances and I think that that is, you know, Zanyola was, I was very disappointed with, he didn't do anything, didn't do enough and Shkamaka when he came in was abysmal, was just absolutely abysmal, he lost everything, until the last few minutes when he finally...
Italy's Attack Needs Improvement
00:25:35
Speaker
No, I don't think he lost everything but he didn't have a good night. Until the last few minutes when he started to hold up, he was abysmal, he was horrific. He had a bad game, he had a bad game, I think there was a couple of people,
00:25:46
Speaker
I have to be a little bit critical of Spaletti's lineup. I think Zagnolo was a ridiculous decision and how he got 70 minutes. I understand the thought process behind it. It was really interesting to see how, OK, you've got DiMarco and Kiazza on the left. So you overload that, you invert DiMarco, and in order to balance that up, you basically shut down the right wing with the Lorenzo and Zagnolo essentially kind of also inverting into a back three with possession and Zagnolo kind of shutting down the right hand side.
00:26:15
Speaker
But I get the idea behind that. I just think that the way that Zagnolo played throughout and how he got 70 minutes is just he's just not good enough at this level right now. Right now, at this moment in time, he's just not good enough. And Gilorin also didn't have a very good game either.
00:26:36
Speaker
But I mean, Bonjourno was a gamble, it paid off. Fratesi for Bonaventura, I think Fratesi really struggled. Again, Fratesi shows his technical limitations and that's fine because we know the kind of player he is. He's a player that is, I mean, he's a poor man's notcherino. And I wouldn't even say he's a poor man's Barela, he's a poor man's notcherino. Good. Are we getting that low?
00:26:59
Speaker
No, no, we are. I mean, I hope so. No, but he is. No, no, he is a poor man's Nocherino. A poor man's Nocherino, come on. No, he's a poor man's Nocherino. And that's fine because he has particular traits that are, you know, his timing of runs, you know, when he goes, gets himself into those spaces, but his passing and technical ability is very mediocre. His passing is not good enough. He gives the ball away. And that's why I think Bonaventura should have started.
00:27:23
Speaker
I think he, I can understand why he went for Francesi, what the legs, and I think it worked. I mean, we, we, we, I feel that it was, it was because of Barella and Jorginho who were outstanding. I mean, this is why I say it's such a shame that Locatelli was injured because I think Locatelli skill set with these two in the playing like they did yesterday.
00:27:45
Speaker
I don't even think Ukraine gets to seize the ball at all. I mean, they were so... That's how good I think Jorgino and Barela together were. Complete domination in midfield. Our most obvious limitations in this game was the attack for me. This is the thing. I liked Raspadori. I think Kieza Raspadori and Skamake is what I wanted to see. I think taking off Raspadori and his movement
00:28:08
Speaker
for Skamaka was a mistake. I would have liked to keep Raspedori, Kiesa and Skamaka. But then again, you're not chasing the game. Ukraine are chasing the game. So I kind of understand Spaletti. But I mean, these are... Raspedori links the midfield and the attack very well together. But even with Raspedori, we lack goals in the attack. I mean, let's be honest, Kiesa was brilliant. He was absolutely fantastic. He was everywhere.
00:28:33
Speaker
He was even chasing, he was even chasing back. He was even, he created, all the chances of creation came through, through creating that amazing pass for the protestor chance. He was chasing back. That was the Allegry side. That was the Legry. And he was chasing back. I mean, he was, he was, he was doing everything. I thought he was good.
00:28:49
Speaker
I thought he was good, but this notion that he was like fantastic. No, he wasn't because he's approaching the level that we know he can play at. And I think that when Federico Chiesa is at his best, there is no discussion that he is this undeniable star and focal point of this team. No discussion.
00:29:08
Speaker
Even, even below his best. He wasn't. He wasn't. I mean, there were, there were instances there. I think it was in, I think it's 77th. Yeah. He gave the ball away. He gave the ball away. That's fair. He did give the ball away, but he was getting tired there, but he does try to do too much sometimes. He is a bit greedy, but you know, you, you take Kiezer out of this attack and there's nothing, there's nothing. It's the most mediocre attack.
00:29:48
Speaker
We have to pray, he's fair, I think. The attacker's not doing enough. I said before this interview, the strikers, the attackers need to step up. They need to make that leap, and still none of them have. They did well against Macedonia, but it's Macedonia. In this game, they didn't make the step up, none of them. Only Kiezer showed the sparks that he's at the level to make them up. He's on his way. What I thought was so encouraging was to see glimpses of the Kiezer
00:29:52
Speaker
you can possibly get.
00:30:16
Speaker
from before the injury. And that made me very happy for Italy, because again, he is by far, him and Barella, they play at a level that no one in this team is close to. Gorilla was very good in these two games as well. He was outstanding. He was outstanding. It was about time we had him back, the real Barella. And together with Giorginio as well, the way they retained the possession was just these two games. They did whatever they wanted. It's such a shame about Tonali.
00:30:45
Speaker
We just want to stress that we need more from the attack and we need more goals. We don't have enough goals in the attack at all. I mean, who's our top scorer in the squad? It's Berardi with eight goals. I mean, that says it all, but you know, even at club level, I mean, Moisakin came on, he hasn't scored a goal this season.
00:31:05
Speaker
as good as he's been. He's actually been pretty good for Aston Villa. He hasn't got a goal for Aston Villa this season, you know, and he's playing in a very attacking Aston Villa team who score a lot of goals. Yeah, he's done his groin as well. You know, so, you know, and then the other attackers, you know, a lot, a lot, I mean, elsewhere always in the squad, for goodness sake. I mean, you know, this is, this is, this is, this is what we're talking about. So, you know,
00:31:27
Speaker
We'll come on to how well we can do, but from a positive point of view, we're back. We can relax. We can start to build. Spoletti has time now to work his magic. Yes, you don't have a proper competitive game for at least six months or something like that. Yeah, six months.
00:31:49
Speaker
five six months and you can focus on building well five four months four and a half four and a half four and a half it's mid november december january february march that's four months four and a half months we're in 20th november i mean january february march is actually three months we both we've got a mess for
00:32:08
Speaker
December, January, February, January. I know four months. Yeah, good. Yeah. Four and a half months. It's not four and a half months. It's four months. It's the 20th of the 25th of March. Four months and a third. Is that is that me? Is that all right? Four months. It's a third. It's 30 days in a month. It's 21st today. We're recording. This is fantastic content to listen to, by the way. You may argue over time. But listen,
00:32:32
Speaker
But listen, he's got this time to calmly build now. He can do, like you said, build his magic, work his magic, try to build a structure in place and try to put something and try to reintegrate new players. I mean, someone like Kalpani is someone I definitely want. If he continues playing like this, I think he should be a part of this team.
00:32:52
Speaker
Just whether or not we've got enough games. But yeah, absolutely. At least we can relax. We can enjoy the build up as well as fans. We can enjoy the build up storm. We can enjoy the draw next week, next week, next Saturday. The draw. I'm just saying that with Italy in pot four, because they didn't beat Ukraine, because otherwise they would have been in pot three. It's not certain. But we'll come on to that. There's a 97 percentage chance that they'll end up in pot four.
00:33:20
Speaker
First of all though, I want to discuss the squad. I want to discuss who is going to go to Euro 2024 for Italy. It's still obviously a long time to go and a lot can change, but I've worked this out.
00:33:33
Speaker
And I've split this into two sections. First of all, I'm going to read out the players who I think are already on the plane, who are guaranteed to go. And then we'll discuss those that are fighting for a spot and who the options are, and then who me and both Nimr and myself would actually select ourselves. So the guarantees are
00:33:53
Speaker
Let me just first of all specify it's now a 23-man squad. It's not 26 anymore. At Euros and the World Cup, it was 26-man squads. They increased the squad because of COVID. Now it's back down to the usual 23. So the guarantees are Donaruma in goal is a guarantee. In defence, Di Lorenzo and Di Marco are both guarantees.
00:34:17
Speaker
And then it's centre back, I have a chair being Bastani as guarantees. In midfield, I think Barela obviously is a guarantee and I would add Locatelli to that as well. I think he's a guarantee as well. Tonali would have been a guarantee, but obviously he's suspended and he misses the finals. As for the attack,
00:34:35
Speaker
I only right now have one guarantee and that's Kiesa if he's fit. Apart from that, I don't think there's any other guarantees right now, but I mean you can argue against that. We'll come down to the pool of players that we have. So let's start off with the goalkeepers. Goalkeepers, three goalkeepers will be chosen as always. As I said, Donaruma is a guarantee. The other options are Vicario,
00:34:57
Speaker
Provedel and Merret. The way I see this NIMA is, as it stands, Vicario is a certainty if it's picked right now because he's been maybe the best goalkeeper in the Premier League.
Vicario's Impact in Premier League
00:35:07
Speaker
I was going to say. But it's going to be two from those three for the other two spots. Would you say there's no one else really is there that's in there? No, I'd say it's Vicario and Provedel as things stand today. But I mean, we're eight months away. So
00:35:23
Speaker
It's impossible. But yeah, no, I think it's things down today, Vicario and Providel for me. I mean, those three are the best. It's not even close like a merit. God bless. No, not compared to Providel and Vicario because of the kinds of goalkeepers they are. I mean, don't add almost the number one.
00:35:39
Speaker
I mean the third goalkeeper I think has barely ever played in a tournament ever in any nation in the history of football so I mean it doesn't really matter but yeah I'd agree I think right now it's Vicalion Progdell right now but then again I guess Spelletti Meret was Spelletti's goalkeeper Napoli that might you know he might have more of a chance because of that but yeah those are the goalkeepers that's an easy one right at right back
00:36:06
Speaker
I should say first of all that Italy will take either eight or nine defenders. That's how it will be. It will be eight or nine defenders. So you would usually divide that between two right backs, two left backs, and four center backs. And then if you pick a ninth,
00:36:23
Speaker
you would probably pick someone that's more of a utility player that can maybe play as a centre-back and as a full-back or both full-back positions. That's all up in the air, but if we go on the premise that first of all, there's going to be two right-backs, I think obviously Di Lorenzo is a guarantee. Right now, we're looking at Dami and as the back-up, aren't we? Right now.
00:36:42
Speaker
Yeah, no, without a doubt. I think you're spot on. But the other options are Calabria, Lazary, Florenzi, Bela Nova as a very outside option. Those are the other natural right backs that we're looking at. But assuming Darmian keeps up his form, I mean, he's going to be 34, so he could lose his form.
00:37:05
Speaker
We're looking at Darmian, aren't we? I think we agreed on that for the other right-back to start. The good thing with Darmian is that he can also play as a centre-back. I mean, he has in a back three. And I think because of the experience and the utility, man, that he's become, he can play to the left. He can play as a left wing back, left centre-back, right centre-back, right wing back. I mean, he gives you so many options. But I think Darmian is almost a certainty if he's injury-free and continues to perform at a good level.
00:37:36
Speaker
the options he provides tactically. Yeah, he's been really good and he was really great against Macedonia as well. But it's like in a short tournament, you want to have options, don't you? I mean, it's a very short tournament. It's only six, seven games. Players, utility players are very, very welcome. Yeah, absolutely. And if we're desperate and we need another left back, he can play there as well. Exactly. He came on for Polytown and played as a winger. I mean, he can play everywhere and that's a really important quality in a short tournament.
00:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, Ani's experience and there's the inter block at the back and I think it's always useful to have like we've often had with the Juventus defensive blocks in the past. It's very, very important. Okay, left back. Now this is interesting. This is probably our best area in terms of depth that we have anywhere in the squad is that left back. So DiMarco is a guarantee. I think that's for certain. Injury, as long as there's no injuries or anything. Then,
00:38:28
Speaker
Let me list out the number, the left backs we've got Udoji, Cambiazzo, Spinazzola, Biragi, Emerson, Parisi, Ruggieri as well as coming on strong at Atlanta. So we've got a lot of left back options. Right now, I think it's
00:38:45
Speaker
DiMarco and Udoji as the first two left-backs right now, but so much can change between now and June, can't it? Yeah, look, for me, I will be pissed off if Udoji and Cambiazzo aren't called up and included. You want both?
00:39:04
Speaker
I want Udoji, Dimarco, Cambiaso, Spinazzola, Darmian, and di Lorenzo. Again, Darmian can play in many positions. And Cambiaso, Spinazzola can play on the right. Di Lorenzo is a right back. Dimarco and Udoji are left backs. Like, again, I'm looking for options. And since there aren't any definite center backs, except for Acherbi and Bastoni, as things stand today,
Coaching Prowess of Italian Coaches
00:39:32
Speaker
For me, you need to bring the best players. Spinazzola, Cambiaso can play on the right, they can play on the left. Udoji and DiMarco, you know what they can do on the left. So you have to have them. Di Lorenzo is a leader in this. This is Spalletti's Italy. So, you know, Di Lorenzo has to be there. And down me on for everything we said. So for me, they all have to be called up, these players.
00:39:57
Speaker
Well, the problem is that we won't have the numbers to pick all of those. You can't pick six fullbacks because if you pick six fullbacks, then even if you pick three centerbacks, which you can't go with three centerbacks, you're going to have nine already. So you'd have to go with four centerbacks. So you can't pick all of them. At the very maximum, you could pick an extra fullback. So you could go
00:40:16
Speaker
Udoji and Cambiaso. Maybe pick another one, which he might do. He might end up doing because he might see Udoji as someone that can even play as a sentiment fielder. But absolutely, you can't have four full pats. It would be too many. And the reason for that is, I mean, we have to decide who's going to be a centre-back.
Selection Challenges for Italy's Defense
00:40:33
Speaker
I mean, first of all, I would take Udoji. Let me just tell you that, that 100%. But a centre-back, the guarantees are Achebi and Bastani, for sure.
00:40:42
Speaker
If I have to sacrifice a player out of Cambiaso or Dodgy... No, Cambiaso or Sounazola. Yeah, it's Sounazola. With all due respect. But we have to see how they play the rest of the season. Sounazola might come strong. Cambiaso might lose his way. He's young. He might get a leg read. You don't know. So let's go to centre backs. So centre backs. Bastoni and Echebe guarantees.
00:41:09
Speaker
We need another two minimum, another two centre backs, maybe three. Most international managers for tournaments pick five centre backs, most. Let's be honest, our options are not good at all. Let's be honest. So the other options are... This is what I've done, Bianna, is a back up, right centre back. Well, that's the thing. I would, I mean, I know he's never played in a back four, but I would do almost, like you said, I'd rather him be our fifth centre back. This is what I mean, like this is... In a desperation situation, you'd go with him. Yeah.
00:41:39
Speaker
I agree. Because he can do that. I mean, he is such an intelligent player and he knows his limitations. He knows what he can do. He knows what he can't do and he adapts. He just goes out there and does his thing. I'm with you. I would go for four centre backs and then pick an extra full back and then have Darmien as somebody who can come in. I agree with you. Listen, there's no point picking a fifth centre back like
00:42:01
Speaker
Toloy or Casale or Basquirotto. What's the point? You can't trust them in a quarterfinal or semi-final in the Euros. You're going to lose. What's the point to bring them? They don't offer anything. They really don't. No, I'm with you all the time. Let me read out the other options. We've got Scalvini, Gatti, Mancini, Toloy, Casale, Buongiorno, Romagnoli, Basquirotto, Benucci. I mean, we shouldn't even name him, but let's just name him anyway.
00:42:30
Speaker
We need two or three players from these options. We both agree we should pick two. So who are the two you take from these?
00:42:42
Speaker
Yeah, I would probably, right now, again, things can change. Right now, I agree. I would agree with you. I don't want to see Toloy ever in it. I think both have done well in these two games. Again, not elite opposition, but Spelletti said he wants to play elite opposition in the March friendlies. So that would be a good opportunity in those games to play these centre backs and see who can cut it and who can't.
00:43:07
Speaker
No, I agree. Mancini is too much of a liability. He scares the shit out of me every time he steps out on the pitch. Scalvini is not raw. I still haven't seen what the fuss is about with Scalvini. He's too raw. I don't think this is easy.
00:43:24
Speaker
look it's a short tournament you don't bring players to to to learn you have to be ready now it's a tournament it's it's it's a final so you're you're disagreeing nations league is to learn that's yeah use the nation needs to learn now that's the only use of that tournament now exactly yeah okay let's go to this now let's go to midfield so usually you would pick five or six sentiment fielders we play a three
Midfield Choices and Regista Role
00:43:47
Speaker
man
00:43:47
Speaker
central midfield, so six-centre midfielders you need for a free man. And we have guarantees, as I said, Barella and Locatelli I think are guarantees. So we need another four. Now the options we've got are
00:44:06
Speaker
Christante, Giorginio, Verratti, Ricci, they're the registers, they're the register options. Metzala options are Fratazzi, Bonaventura, Colpani,
00:44:20
Speaker
and you maybe you include Pellegrini in that. I don't know. I wouldn't do that. I mean, given how he plays, he's somebody that could be this, again, he could be a six choice and somebody that can double up as an attacker. That's one thing he's a winger. That's a possibility. But anyway.
00:44:36
Speaker
I think we need to break it down as registers first because you're going to always pick two registers in the squad. If we're calling him a register, then you need one other one. You would pick Georgina, but you see, I think that
00:44:53
Speaker
Spelletti could consider Locatelli also to double up as a Mezzan, in which case you could take Giorgino and Cristante and have... I mean, I wouldn't do it, but I'm just saying, the way that he looks at it, he could pick Giorgino and Cristante as his two registers, and then
00:45:10
Speaker
pick Locatelli as a Metzala who can also play as a Regista. That's a possibility. I think that's pretty much what's going to happen and I'm annoyed because I know it's going to happen. If Christante is not injured, he's going to go to the Euros and it's going to be a waste of a space in that team because I don't think Christante is good enough and I think he's shown time and time again. He is a very limited player and he's not good enough at this level and he was lucky.
00:45:38
Speaker
not to concede a penalty because he's so reactive, he's so slow in his reactions and in a game against a France or an England or whatever in the Euros and he does what he did on Mudrik, I'll bet you anything that's a penalty and that's it.
00:45:55
Speaker
No, he's not good enough. He's not good enough. It's simple. It's simple as that. He's not good enough. I don't even see him as somebody just to bring on to see the game out because look what happened yesterday. As soon as Christante comes on, you lose control of the midfield. That's my big thing. I want my midfield to control the game. I want them to dominate the game, dominate possession.
00:46:16
Speaker
He doesn't do that, and he doesn't even necessarily close the game up very well as we saw with the Madrid incident yesterday. He's not a bad player, he's a good player, but he's not an Italy-level player. He's not good enough. He shouldn't be on this team. Even against Macedonia, we lost our way when he came off. Immediately, those changes is when they scored twice. Kristanter shouldn't be anywhere near this team.
00:46:38
Speaker
No, we'll always thank him for that flick on that he did in the Euro final from the corner, you know, but that's it. You know, thanks for that, Brian. No, no, thanks, Bri. But Brian. Yeah, Brian. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I mean, you can't have a name Brian and be good. I mean, I mean, you know, some people just have names where you just know they're just there's Brian. Brian. Brian. Brian Laudrup was pretty good. But from that, I don't know.
00:47:04
Speaker
No, no, no, we don't need, no, no, Christanthe, just... No, no, no, no, no, just Christanthe, just... No, no, no, no, no. Look, when you ride your luck and you know that you've been lucky, don't push it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you got away with one with Christanthe. Don't push it, because he'll make you pay. Mark my words. So if we don't think it'll happen... He'll make you pay in the euros, Christanthe.
00:47:37
Speaker
for me. Yeah, it's your 6th. He's your 6th. He's your 6th. I don't count Pellegrini as a midfielder. I count him as an attacker. So if Kalpani continues to play like this, the thing with Kalpani that I really, really like is the fact that he's a big guy as well. He's technical.
00:47:57
Speaker
So who do you take then? Who do you take as your...
00:48:06
Speaker
He's got a brilliant left foot. He's powerful, the way that he drives the ball forward. Good finisher, big guy. He gives something different to this Italy side that they don't have. He can also play on one of the wing positions as well.
00:48:27
Speaker
No, for me, for me, it's as I go, I go Loca Telly and Giorgino right now as the, as the reduced is. I mean, variety, I would love to take him because he's my favorite Italy player the last 10 years, but he's been in Qatar and I just don't see how it can put how you can possibly take him. It's just just
00:48:46
Speaker
It's funny that, isn't it? Because if you were to bet, I mean, if I were to bet on who out of those two would still have a future under Spaletti, you know, in August. You would have thought before that the Verrati would have lasted longer, but he's killed himself. If he was still playing in Europe, I'm sure he would still be in the mix.
00:49:06
Speaker
whilst Giorginio's playing fast? Well, listen, things can change. Giorginio was not looking good at Arsenal up until the last month or so, and now he's found form, so we have to see if he can continue that. Yeah, so I go Giorginio Lopetelli for the Regista position, and then Barela and Fratesi, I think, absolutely. So that's four. I think right now, you go Bonaventura, but again, he's 33, going to turn 34 next year. You know, again,
00:49:32
Speaker
he could age. If you're on scene and have a lot of games to play in Europe, you know, we have to see how he does in the new year. And then, yeah, then there's, I mean, there's Copain, there's Pellegrini. I don't know who I would have as the sixth, to be honest. It's crazy that we've gone from so many midfield options. It's annoying to me. This phenomenon thing really annoys me because he would have been perfect in this midfield.
00:49:57
Speaker
like it just, it annoys the whole family. Well, he's just a big player. He's just, he's a huge player. It's a huge play. It's going to be a huge blow come the tournament and against the big teams, for sure. It isn't going to win anyway, this, the Euros. Well, I don't think so, but yeah, we'll come to that. As for the sixth one, I don't know. Maybe I...
00:50:15
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. I want to see Kalpani first before I say I want Kalpani. I want to see how he does it much. Well, that's the thing. I mean, if we're doing it today, then yeah, Kalpani, but it's impossible to say anything now. It's eight months away. Okay. All right. I'll go with that then for now.
00:50:31
Speaker
Attackers attackers then so this is this is really really difficult. I think he is the only guarantee I think he's the only guarantee right now if he's fair and this will pray that he is because he's so important Then you know, they're gonna we're gonna take six forwards, right? So you need
00:50:47
Speaker
Generally, you need at least two players who can play on the right, two that can play on the left, two that can play in the middle. A lot of these players can play right and left, like Yeza can play right and left. So that's going to allow us to be flexible here. Now, I'll read through all the options. The right-wing options, we've got Beradi, Politano, Orsollino, Orsollini, Zaniolo, who can play on the left as well, Nyonto, who can play on both sides, Zakanyi on the left, El Shurari on the left, Raspedori, who can play on the left or the middle,
00:51:13
Speaker
Keene, who can play right, left, or middle. Shkamaka, and then the sense, it's purely center forward option, Shkamaka, Rettaghi, and Imobla. And then as I said, Pellegrini is kind of midfielder stroke attacker that can potentially play both.
00:51:28
Speaker
Well, we have to pick Domenico Berardi because otherwise Patrick Kendrick will put out a fatwa on us. So we have to pick him out. So Kiesa Berardi, Rasbadori, Skamaka, Pellegrini, Moisken is what I would go with. But I think he's going to go with Politano because even though they have a love-hate relationship. So you wouldn't pick Zagnolo then?
00:51:58
Speaker
no not on current form and not on i just don't think he's good enough at this point point point in time and i think he's shown it time and time again i'll tell you who i think will go i think as it stands right now i think um on chiesa obviously i think beradi
00:52:14
Speaker
Ferrari for sure, Raspadori for sure, because of the Napoli collection. And I think he wants to take Schumacher because I think he wants to have a big centre forward option. He wants to have an aerial threat centre forward option. So I think he would pick Schumacher for that reason. Those four I think are different. And I think he likes to take, he would like to take Zagnolo as well. He would like to. So I think those five, then I think the six spot is up for grabs. Who I would take,
00:52:41
Speaker
As my right wing options, I probably would take Berardi because I think he's probably the most consistent out of a bad bunch on the right. So I would have Berardi and Kiesa as two right wing options. Then as my two center forwards,
00:53:00
Speaker
As much as I've been critical of Shigemaka, we need a big center forward. So it's got to be Shigemaka or Retiki. You have to pick one or the other out of these two because you need a center forward option. If you're chasing the game, you're one nil down, you need to put balls in the box, you have to have someone tall that you can go long to or someone that you can put crosses in. For that reason alone, we have to pick one of those two.
00:53:22
Speaker
Right now, you're probably going to Scamaca. I'm not happy with him. He needs to improve his movement. He needs to improve a lot. He's failing at the moment. The thing that with Scamaca is the fact that he's one of the few players in Italy who can have a moment of magic out of nothing. He can create something that was just wow. And that kind of unpredictability
00:53:50
Speaker
I think is important in tournaments, because he does have the talent, he has the ability, he can literally create something out of virtually nothing. And that kind of unpredictability is something you need in a tournament. But yes, Berardi Kiesa Raspadori... Yeah, Berardi Kiesa Raspadori Pellegrini Skamaka Moyzken.
00:54:17
Speaker
I think, listen, I pick Kiesa, Kiesa and, Kiesa and Bharati is my right-wing options. My two center forward options, I go Raspadori and Shkimaka. As my left-wing options, I go,
00:54:36
Speaker
I probably pick Moise Ken. Yeah, definitely Moise Ken. I think Moise Ken, because he can play in all the positions. And also because Moise Ken has become a very tactically useful player, not just under Allegri. I mean, I don't know what Allegri is doing with him, but he's got him thinking football for the first time in his career in a way that we haven't seen that. And he executes those those attacking roles
00:55:04
Speaker
in defence and in attack really well. I mean yesterday when he came on he didn't play too much but immediately you can see he can hold up the ball in that number nine position and Italy are going to need that and he's also a very quick player and dynamic player so for me I think keen on current form has to be in the squad because he's a utility player just like D'Armey and he gives you options. Yeah and my other one would probably be I think I would go Zaniolo for now for now
00:55:32
Speaker
because I want another winger, I want another wide man, I want someone that can run at players. I'd rather have Pellegrini then because I think Pellegrini... Pellegrini can't do that either, he's the slowest person ever. Yes he is, but he's got something that Daniela doesn't have and that is a set pieces and the foot is just...
00:55:47
Speaker
Pellegrini, possibly because you can switch to a 4-2-3-1 and he can play in that 10 position. But that's why I would maybe pick him as part of the midfield six, maybe. That's why. But anyway, listen, those are the six, but I think a lot can change. I personally, I still really like Nionto, but he needs to join a new club. If he joins a new club, if he joins Lazio, for example, he's been linked to, or if he joins Tottenham, who he's been linked to, he joins a club like that and he does well.
00:56:11
Speaker
I like him. I do like him. So I wouldn't rule him out. Also, yeah, like I said, Pellegrini is an option as well. So, you know, those options, I could, what I can say for sure is the players that I absolutely don't want to be in, for sure. In Marbella, for sure. I don't want him to be, there's no way in Marbella, I want Marbella to go to center forward. And then from the outside forward positions,
00:56:36
Speaker
I don't want Orsolini, I don't want Zacagni, I don't want El Schirawi. These players are not at the level required. Those for sure. Then it becomes out of the others that are available that I listed. It comes out of who's playing the best, who's in the best form, who plays well in the friendlies in March and before the tournament. So it's all dependent on that.
00:57:02
Speaker
The place is up for grabs because, like I said, these players need to step up and they're not stepping up to that level right now. None of these players need them to.
00:57:12
Speaker
right okay nothing more to add okay that's that's a detailed little breakdown of the squad and we'll do it again i'm sure back in well in well i guess in in may before the before the before the squad gets announced we'll break it down again then um i am very annoyed at this that they've reduced the squad sizes again i think it's stupid uh one of one of the few good things that came from covid was that they
00:57:39
Speaker
you know, enlarging the squads because these guys are human beings, the amount of games they play a year, and now they're going to reduce the squad size. It's just, it's absurd. I mean, a lot of managers don't like the 26 man squad. If you speak to most of the managers, they hate it because, um, because we're training. It's impossible to train. It's not impossible. They just
00:58:00
Speaker
It's just not useful. You can't train 11 against 11 when there's 26 players. It makes training drills very, very difficult. People removed three goalkeepers. That's the reason why Deshamps and Southgate and who was in some of the other big teams didn't call up 26 for the World Cups. Yeah, but you've got extra goalkeepers. No, nonsense.
00:58:20
Speaker
I just, yeah, humbug, humbug. It's just not used to it. Stop. I mean, it's just, it's just this notion of, oh, I can't, uh, we're not, you, the people like to whinge about it. And Maureen used to whinge about it as well. Oh, I don't want to have more than 23 players.
00:58:35
Speaker
I'm not that fussed because it doesn't have much depth in the squad, so I'd rather the other teams be weakened by not being able to kill what they could play as, so I'm fine with that personally. Oh my God, you've got such a godbot. It's unbelievable. That is like, it's as if you're channeling Modji talking to me right now. That's like, hehehehehehehe. We've been sitting there rubbing our hands, going, weaken everyone's death by a million small cuts.
00:59:01
Speaker
Oh no, let's have 40 man squad so France can... No, 40. No, 26 is... 26.30. I mean, I'm thinking about this player's health. I mean, these guys are going to
Managers' Preferences for Squad Sizes
00:59:15
Speaker
burn out. I'm fine with 23. Basquiatoto can stay at home and tend to his farm. I'm fine. I'm fine with it.
00:59:24
Speaker
Just to finish off, how well can Italy do? Just before I get to that, let's start off by saying that it is like you said before and there's a 97% chance Italy going to be in pot four. So we're going to get a more difficult draw. I would say that though that I wouldn't be that worried about that because
00:59:46
Speaker
Two teams qualify automatically from the knockout stage, into the knockout stages, and then four of the six best third place teams qualify, because it's 24. 24 teams in the tournament goes down to 16. So, you know, really, and I've looked at the teams that are even going to be in some of the pot two teams, and I've looked at the pot three teams, and, you know, Italy should be okay. They'd have to be quite unlucky to get a group of depth, put it that way.
01:00:13
Speaker
And with that, I don't believe Mr. Jinx's are real, just jinxed Italy. Yes, you literally just jinxed Italy. You're the one who believes in jinxes and then you go and say that. Why would you put that into the ether and then blame me about being a jinx?
01:00:28
Speaker
It's all right. My jinx is broken. It's you. You're the one. No, no, no, no. There's nothing broken about your jinxes. Don't try. Don't try to project that on me, neither of that. No. Well, listen, the draw is made on the second December. That's next Saturday at 1800 CET. So it's not a long way. We'll preview. We'll definitely react to that after the draw, the Monday after that draw. So we'll definitely talk about that more.
01:00:54
Speaker
But yeah, so it's not going to be an easy, easy group stage, but we shouldn't be too worried about it, I don't think. I think depending on the draw, realistically,
01:01:07
Speaker
quarterfinals. I mean, for me, this is a France and England tournament to lose, really. I think they are head and shoulders above everyone else. And I've said for many years now that I think England are bound to win a tournament. And I think this is going to be the one. I think England are going to win. I would say for putting it in by, let's say, five star rankings, I would say like England and France.
01:01:34
Speaker
France and England, five star. Then I think I put Portugal as a four star. And then I think everybody else is three star. Like that's- I have Germany three and a half, if that makes sense. I don't. Did you see? I mean, their estate. I don't like them. I don't rate them at all. I think their defense is horrible. They've got no striker. They still play that fuckrog, whatever his name is. Fuckrog. Fuckrog. Jesus Christ.
01:01:56
Speaker
So they still play him up front. I think they've got quite an agent team and they've got a few really talented youngs. I mean, Musiala is brilliant. Wertz is quite talented. But apart from that... Kai Havert is playing in the left back and scoring. Yeah. I mean, Neuer, if he can get back to his best, they've always got Neuer. But I mean... They have to stick. They've got home advantage, of course. That's always going to be massive. So you can never rule out the Germans. There's the right off the Germans. The Germans.
01:02:26
Speaker
right off the Germans, but I think, yeah, I don't like Germany. Holland, I don't like. Who else? Who are the other big nations? Belgium are horrible. I think aside from France and England, I think Italy can fight it out with anyone. I think Portugal would be difficult, but then I don't like their manager, Roberto Martinez. They don't have a good manager. What Italy have?
01:02:52
Speaker
We have a world-class manager, and at international football, even the top nations don't have world-class managers. And I include in that Didier Deschamps. As crazy as it might sound, winning a World Cup and getting to two World Cup honors. I don't think he's a top manager at all. I think he's a good manager, but he's not a world-class manager. I agree with that. And then England, who have a fantastic squad, fantastic team, amazing attacking talent.
01:03:17
Speaker
They've got Gareth Southgate as their manager. Yeah, but you don't always need, I think we've learnt from the euro. Don't always need, but I'm saying this is the weapon that we, this is what we have over the other teams, is our manager. We have maybe the best manager at the tournament, probably the best manager at the tournament, the most proven manager at the tournament. Who else is there?
01:03:36
Speaker
I mean, Nagelsmann, but he's still a little bit unproven. He's very young. Yeah. And he hasn't started well either. He lost to Turkey on his debut at home. You know, so I think we've got the best manager at the tournament. So that can be our weapon. That can be, he, Spelletti, can make us greater than the sum of our parts. You know, we've already seen some of his... Well, we have to give a shout out to...
01:03:59
Speaker
Patrick Kendrick tweeted this. I didn't think about this until he tweeted it. But Italy have four coaches at the Euro 2024. Five even. You could even say five if you include Tedesco, who was born in Italy. Yeah, but he wasn't. I mean, I'm talking from a cover channel point of view.
01:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, Tedesco was born in Italy and he's Italian. But he was developed in another country. Yeah, but I mean, it still shows. I mean, look, it's Rossi, Montella, Calzone and Spoletti. I mean, that is, again, just goes to show that when it comes to tacticians and coaches, Italy, there's no one close to Italian coaches.
01:04:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll definitely win the Euros for the best coaches. No, for the best coaches. I mean, there's no doubt about that. Caltona, Slovakia, Vincenzo Montella in Turkey, Rossi at Hungary. For sure. It's very, very impressive. It's very, very impressive. It's one thing about Italian football, we can criticise everything else, but we always produce the best coaches and I'm sure we always will. But yeah, talking about Italy as a whole,
01:05:05
Speaker
I think that, yeah, I think France and England are on another level to everyone. Italy can fight it out with everyone else. We have a lot of holes in the team. We have to be honest. We're weak at centre back. We have no depth at all at centre back. We're relying on Acherbi hopefully continuing this level into his 30. He's going to be 36 by the tournament. We're preying Acherbi's last. We're preying on Acherbi and you age quickly at that age. You can suddenly go from one day to the next. You can be
01:05:32
Speaker
you can be finished at that age. Look what happened to Benucci, Cellini after the last euros. They were world-class at those euros within a few months. They crashed. We have to pray a cherby stays well. We're not defending like we could at the past. I'm midfield, having lost Sonali.
01:05:53
Speaker
Verratti going to Qatar, our midfield is not the same. And an attack, as we've said for many years, we lack quality in attack. We don't have the same quality. I mean, just compare our attacks to France and England. I mean, if we had their attacks, we would probably win the Euros. So that's the difference. But seriously, it really feels like it's the preliminaries until France and England meet. It really, really feels like it.
01:06:21
Speaker
Thing is, you never know.
Realistic Expectations for Euro 2024
01:06:22
Speaker
I mean, listen. Of course. In a tournament, anything can happen. You can get hot. And it's the beauty of international football as well. It's the unpredictability. Yeah, we hit form. We've got to pray that we keep our players fit. No more injuries. Look at Denmark, look at Greece. We are like one or two more injuries away from total disaster. I would say that because our depth is so... But then, let's say England lose Harry Kane.
01:06:45
Speaker
I mean, they're totally they lose so much. So England lose Harry Kane, or even if they lost Bellingham, or they lost a couple of they lose a couple of players, you know, everything can possibly can certainly can suddenly change, you know, France might have another 2010 where they they all start arguing, you know, you know, you just don't you just don't you just don't know.
01:07:07
Speaker
He's not arguing. Lambapay takes over the team, from desk shops. Which he kind of already has. No, but I'm with you. I'm with you. I think that's fair. We get a good draw. We keep our play. We keep our play. We play collectively as a team.
01:07:29
Speaker
You know, we're in Germany. Germany is a good place for us. We won the World Cup there. It's just over the border. We're close. We'll feel at home. You know, it is. Who knows? Who knows? I'm just I don't think I'm happy that we're there again. I'm happy that we can enjoy the tournament. I want all I want from Spaletti. For me, Spaletti's target isn't the Euros. For me, Spaletti's target is the World Cup. I want him to bring it. For me, that's when I want Italy to deliver in two in two and a half years time. I want
01:07:58
Speaker
You know, that's when I want Italy to be at their best in the World Cup, because it's been too long. It'll leave all reigning champions. I don't really care about the Euros, having seen them won it in 2021. This is for me just warm up for the World Cup. I want Italy to mount a serious World Cup challenge at the World Cup, at the next World Cup. That's what I want. So for me, everything until then is building up until that moment.
01:08:28
Speaker
Fair enough, fair enough. I mean, there's always the chance also that we could get a breakout star like during the season that can suddenly explode. I mean, it's unlikely. Look at the options, but you never know. It does happen. I mean, who knows? Imagine Colombo suddenly explodes and 20 goals between now and the end of the season. Someone like that that comes out, then maybe it could give us a chance. It's unlikely.
01:08:52
Speaker
There's always that possibility as well that gives us more hope. But anyway, like I said, I'm glad to be there. I'm going to enjoy the build up now. That was the most horrible thing about the World Cup, wasn't it? Those waiting seven, eight months, the whole build up and you're not there and it's just horrible. You just want it to be over, basically. I mean, I'm looking at the pots now and
01:09:19
Speaker
Germany, Portugal, France, Spain, Belgium, England. They're in pot one. And then Hungary, Denmark, Albania, Australia, confirmed pot two. Austria. Sorry, Austria, not Australia. Turkey, Romania, Switzerland. Turkey either pot two or three. Romania, Switzerland, pot two or four. Scotland, Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Netherlands, in pot three, confirmed.
01:09:41
Speaker
and Italy either three or four, but 97% chance, but four and then Serbia in pot four. And then you have playoff winner A, B or C in pot four. There's no group of death here unless the nether even if Netherlands, say it's France, Netherlands, Italy, and Denmark. Yeah, that I'm sorry, but yeah, no, I agree. I agree. We all do respectively should go through.
01:10:09
Speaker
Yeah. So if they don't, it's a failure. Let's be honest about it. But I mean, no, I think I'm not too worried about it, because I think the euros... No, look, it is, like you said, it's France, England, five-star, then Portugal, four, then I have Germany, three and a half, and the rest of three, so...
01:10:28
Speaker
Well, it's going to be an interesting Euros. But for Italy's perspective, for me, I have a quarterfinal. But that's what I think we can ask of this Italy, a quarterfinal. That would be respectable. And that's what I demand. Anything above that huge point? Yeah, I agree. We should be good enough to get to the quarterfinals, assuming we get a decent draw. We don't meet like a France or England in the last 16. And then from the quarterfinals, I guess it depends on the draw.
Concerns Over Potential Complacency
01:10:57
Speaker
What happens next? The reason I don't want Italy to win this tournament is because I don't want them to do everything they did wrong the last time around they won it.
01:11:06
Speaker
and go into this, they start acting like the senators of the Roman Empire that brought glory to the Empire and start like, and forget to do the hard work. They're going to do that. They're going to do that. They're going to do that win or lose, Nima. I mean, we've not qualified for two World Cups in a row. That's the thing. They're not going to do that. If they don't win it, they'll go hungry into the World Cup. I do not want them standing there like last time when Bonucci was taking laps of honor before the game. And it's just you.
01:11:35
Speaker
I listen, I'll take a win all day long because I know it said this is Italy. We don't change it. We're not going to change anything anyway. So I mean, I'd rather take the win. I love the defeatist attitude. Okay. Let's leave it at that. I hope you enjoyed that. It's nice to have someone to look forward to again, isn't it for Italy?
Euro 2024 Draw and Reactions
01:11:52
Speaker
Good to lead national team fans. We will, like I said, the draw is next Saturday, so we definitely will do a reaction to that on the Monday pod. And maybe we might even do a preview. If we get time, we'll do a preview next Thursday as well. But is it Champions League next week? Yeah, it is. We will have a lot to talk about, but if we can fit it in, maybe we'll do a little preview of the draw as well next Thursday.
01:12:17
Speaker
Okay,
Upcoming Serie A Matches and Derby d'Italia
01:12:18
Speaker
right. We'll be back on this Thursday. Before we go, we're doing a Q&A this Thursday, aren't we? So we're not going to do a preview, or on Thursday. But I do want to... I mean, there's some juicy games coming up this weekend.
01:12:31
Speaker
in the Serie A. You've got Atalante. Well, Milan Fiorentina, Juventus Inter. There's quite a few juicy games in the Derby d'Italia on Sunday night. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about Derby d'Italia on the Q&A. We'll find space for it on that. We'll preview it on Thursday's show, for sure. But it is going to be great. It's going to be fantastic. Two points separate the two teams. Top of the table clash. Both teams have a lot of injuries as well.
01:13:01
Speaker
This is what I was going to say. What is the state of Locatelli's injury? Who knows? Who knows? Because I mean, Juventus are Juventus-ing this. He's feeling pain, apparently. He hasn't been able to train. So I mean, I don't know. It's one of those that he played through the pain in the last game. So it's one of those kind of chronic ones, which is always difficult to tell, isn't it, with those ones? Who knows? Who knows? I mean, there's other injuries as well for both teams.
Controversies in Italy's Qualification
01:13:30
Speaker
You know, before we go, though, we have to do Bajoum premise of the week because I saw yesterday Bajoum premise that I think is one of the biggest premises in history. Go on there. Tell us all. Well, let's do the let's do the Bajoum and premise swoosh. So this is this is this is truly
01:13:54
Speaker
When I saw this, this was sent to us by one of our patrons on the DM on Patreon, and I just couldn't... I thought he was having me on. And it's just... I don't know what to say. It's truly one of the most... I mean, the game had barely ended when this...
01:14:18
Speaker
when I received this message. It comes from our patron. I'm just bringing up the chat here. But yeah, Reese McQuig sent this to us. And it is, I mean, the Daily Mail have outdone themselves this time. Listen to this headline. This is the headline.
01:14:46
Speaker
Italy reached Euro 2024 in controversial circumstances as Ukraine are denied a late penalty, dot, dot, dot, just days after UEFA chief said it would be a disaster, in quotes, if holders didn't qualify. Look, how is that in our news article? I mean, just to wait and then and then just go haranguing about, you know, the penalty situation and blah, blah, blah. And then we go into the really
01:15:15
Speaker
Italy defender Brian Christante looked as though he swiped at the winger's legs and brought him down inside the penalty area, though the referee waved play on. Ukraine players and staff vented their frustrations and astonishment at the decision, but it fell on deaf ears as the officials suggested there was no further doing.
01:15:37
Speaker
The incident comes just days after UEFA president Alexander Chefarin said it would be a, quote, disaster if Italy failed to qualify for Euro 2024, which was lamented by Ukraine head coach Sergei Rebrov.
01:15:54
Speaker
I don't even know. Not surprised at all. Okay.
Criticism of British Media Coverage
01:15:58
Speaker
The fact that Chefferyne said something incredibly inappropriate, I don't think anyone thinks that was an intelligent thing by him to say. I think it was stupid, but then it's par for the course with Alexander Chefferyne.
01:16:12
Speaker
In Sweden, we say when someone says something stupid, we say a frog jumps out of their mouth. Alexander Cheferin has a farm of frogs and is living in his mouth, so there's nothing new there. But this insinuation stuff, this is the kind of stuff that if you were to say,
01:16:29
Speaker
at them. They'd call you conspiracy theorists. They'd call you everything. But this is madness. They're literally insinuating that Italy rigged the game or that sorry, UEFA rigged the game on behalf of Italy. That's what they're insinuating. And it's just like, I couldn't believe that.
01:16:50
Speaker
It was truly, truly remarkable. I can believe it because this is just what we expect from the Daily Mail. My head exploded when I saw that. A lot of the people that have been up and up for all, they didn't even watch the game at all. They just see a little highlight. I mean, I've seen all on social media and I've seen in the media Chelsea fans as well. They're going ballistic about Mudrick and the referee has robbed Mudrick. They're Chelsea fans. They have literally nothing to be happy about other than that.
01:17:20
Speaker
Mutarika has been robbed by the referee of dragging his nation. They're talking about how amazing he was because there was a couple of like, you know, somebody put together like a 30 second highlights compilation of
01:17:35
Speaker
of mudrick going on a few dribbles last night and they seem to the consensus around just google is just good not google just go on to twitter and have a look uh search mudrick and see what everybody's saying about him and and you know apparently he was he was mad at the match and he was he was he was good
01:17:53
Speaker
He was awful. He was absolutely dreadful. People didn't even watch the game. He completed one of his five dribbles. He won one of his nine duels. He lost possession 20 times. He let a ball run underneath his studs in the first half when he would have just had blood on his feet. And he made the worst dive.
01:18:11
Speaker
since Jürgen Klinsmann in the 1990 World Cup Final. You know which one I mean when he does that ridiculous thing with his legs and he's holding his head and it's the most theatrical embarrassing thing ever on a football pitch. And he manages to somehow not beat Klinsmann because that is no one will ever beat him. Neymar and Klinsmann are just no one will ever come close to them. And I know what you have to do to come close to them in terms of
01:18:40
Speaker
diving and ridiculousness and exaggerating an impact. But he came to the vicinity of those two doing that. But this is what I mean, this is what the McDadey Mail and these mainstream media in Britain are like. They don't even watch the games. Then they write features and articles. I know, because I've seen them do it. It's agenda pushing. They write a feature in an article on a game. They've not even watched the game. No, they've decided what the agenda is. What can we do on the game? And they pick out a narrative.
01:19:09
Speaker
No, the narrative decided beforehand and then they adapt the facts to the narrative, which is the very definition of what isn't journalism. Look, it's truly, truly, it's just... Anyway, we need
Plans for Future Podcast Episodes
01:19:23
Speaker
to wrap this up. Bad Joe of the Week, though, of course, we'll go with Spoletti in Italy for taking us to the Euros and giving us some joy again. Right. Okay. As I said, back on Thursday, we'll do the Q&A and we'll also preview the Derby d'Italia. Until then, have a good week. Ciao ciao.