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Italy Euro 2024 Reaction: What Went Wrong? From Luciano Spalletti To Players To FIGC & Much More (Ep. 431)
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A full post-mortem on Italy's abysmal EURO 2024 tournament after crashing out against Switzerland, analyzing the Azzurri debacle from every angle possible from Luciano Spalletti to the players, the FIGC role, but also looking forward to FIFA World Cup 2026 qualifiers and beyond, as well as Baggio, Premface and Serie Ass of the week and much, much more when Nima and Carlo break down all the main talking points from the crazy world of Italian football.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Promotion
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian football podcast. Hello everybody and welcome to the Italian football podcast.
Italy's Euro 2024 Performance Analysis
00:00:09
Speaker
I'm Carter Garganese joined as always by Nima Tzavali. Italy are out of Euro 2024. On today's show, we will react to two Italy's embarrassing exit from the tournament on Saturday, a 2-0 defeat to Switzerland in in one of the the worst performances, what I called it on my post-match reaction, the worst performance I've ever seen from an Italy team ah at ah at a major tournament. and So we will do a deep post-mortem on this disastrous defeat and and disastrous tournament.
Reasons Behind Italy's Poor Showing
00:00:43
Speaker
what went wrong, who who is to blame will go for all the reasons, there's many of them including Luciano Spoletti, the players, the FIGC and that will take up most of the show I imagine and we'll also then look ahead, try and find some lights and look ahead now that Spoletti is staying for the for the the new Italy what players must stay, what players must go, who should be part of the group looking ahead to the the 2026 World Cup if we get there. So that will be plenty to talk about on to today's show. and We probably won't do anything on club football today but we will see how it goes and we'll have our usual Padbaggio, Premface and Celia as of the week.
00:01:26
Speaker
For all our first time listeners, this is our free weekly episode that we do every Monday, reviewing the weekend, setting action, and all the biggest talking points in Italian football.
Comparing Euro 2024 to Past Tournaments
00:01:33
Speaker
If you want to support the Italian football podcast and receive all of our content that we do throughout the week, including a weekly Q and&A episode every Tuesday, where we answer all the questions from our patrons, plus the weekly Thursday midweek review show, plus interviews, post-match reaction, and much, much more, then go to patreon.com, slash T-I-F-P, and become a subscriber for just $2.99 a month plus VAT. You can also sign up to be a paid subscriber on Spotify. We'll provide the link in the description. Same price, same terms. For all of you that do listen on Spotify, Apple and iTunes podcasts, we'd really appreciate it. If you give us a five star rating, give us a follow and like. Follow us on YouTube as well. Our YouTube page is really starting to explode. It's it's gone mad during during the Euros.
00:02:15
Speaker
and so follow us and on or subscribe to us it was the correct terminology name my for ah subscribe oh my god yes subscribe to us on on youtube because it's uh it it really helps us grow and do more quality content you can't be this much of a boomer like it's like it's like talking to mr burns which mean it's v was he called it the veloc The velocitator and de-velocitator, when he's talking about the gas pedal. Well, on that note, ah let's park our ah ah laughter and our smiles, because there ain't going to be much of that in this show. ah let's Let's talk about Italy at Euro 2024.
00:03:01
Speaker
Okay, right, so Italy are out of Euro 2024. We lose 2-0 in Berlin and the place of our our triumph at the 2006 World Cup Final, but it was so far away from those glory days that you couldn't you you can't i mean if i' express how how bad Italy were. So Italy lose 2-0, fully deserved. ah One of, I said in my post-match reaction, if you haven't listened to it yet, go onto our Patreon page, patreon dot.com, slash t i p which I did straight after the end of the game, um where I said it was the the worst
00:03:36
Speaker
performance ah I've ever seen from from an Italy team at a major tournament, at a Euros or or a World Cup. net I've never seen and I think that's kind of echoed by by ah what meant what what many people have said. For me, if you saw my what I tweeted was it was the worst performance by an Italy side at a major tournament since 1994. That game against Ireland will always stick out for me as as as an eyesore. when they lost to Ray Houghton and also if you look at that squad and the players they had and how little they created and little they could string together. um But yeah, it's it's up there. it's up yeah It's definitely up there. I mean, yeah, Ireland is a good. I didn't think of the island. I mean, North Korea in 1966 was a disaster and they had great players yeah in that in that team as as well. And obviously they went out, the fact that they went out as well in this in this game. People are talking about 2010 and you know New Zealand and this, that and the other. I'm like thinking, well, they weren't really good like they like that. I take everything into consideration, like the New Zealand game and that Italy side and where they were. And and and and and if you look at the game, Italy did create enough to win that game.
00:04:44
Speaker
right Yeah, I mean, yeah, Ireland and against Switzerland, mean Switzerland, they were asphalted. Yeah, they were asphalted by Switzerland. Let's not. Yeah, I think what was different with this one is what was different in this one is, um you know, at least even in the 1994 one, as bad as we were, like, at least we were, we were controlling possessions, heresy, so much the game without doing it. But, you know, and the same in 2010, I mean, it was awful as we were. yeah we were kind of like the the bosses on the pitch if you want to say even though we were carved open like in that Slovakia game we were you know you looked at you watched that game and you knew that Italy were the big team and and with the you know had the whereas in this game you know it was we we did have we looked we looked like a minnows a minnow team.
00:05:32
Speaker
ah click like em Yeah. Yeah. Horrific. So it so it was it was it was it was it was horrendous. It was it was it was absolutely horrendous. What I want to do though, Nima, is because you know we're two days on now. I think you know everybody's done that to death now. is I want to do a deep dive on all the reasons for for for not justice disaster just before this game, but we will talk about that as well.
Critique of Spalletti's Tactics and Leadership
00:05:55
Speaker
But the tournament in general has been a disaster. So I want to go through and we've we've got a list of them. I think we've got about six or seven ah different talking points here, ah factors in this disastrous tournament and disastrous defeat to Switzerland. We're going to work through each one and we're going to go in deep on each one. So the first place to start is Luciano Spelletti and what a disaster. Because before the tournament started, we both agreed and I think most people do and anybody that's saying they don't is it's its probably it's probably rewriting history. We thought that he would be
00:06:27
Speaker
the the you know our our biggest strength that he was something that we had over the other nations that it was Luciano Spelletti after his miracle with Napoli you know being so happy being such an innovative coach during his career tactically being advanced the fact that in international football you know generally the club football is where the best managers are we thought right we've we've got this is something that we've got yes we don't have the quality players our squad is bad but we have a great manager that can raise the level of our players. And that's all you expect. Here's the thing though. I still think that tactically, in terms of football knowledge, in terms of player development, in terms of his career, in terms of where he is, I think Spaliti is the best coach still in his Euros. I absolutely still think that. There's a difference between ability
00:07:20
Speaker
um and getting you know and expressing that on the pitch. and what he've got he His decision making was atrocious this tournament. There's no doubt about that. and His decision making in particular, every single key decision, I mean i tweeted this out, i I still believe that he is tactically one of the best coaches in this tournament. But every single decision, except for one or two, that he has made has been an unmitigated disaster. He's got it wrong. um And, you know, i my perspective on this is when when you use the word pragmatic, people automatically associate that with, this use the synom synonym, defensive football. No, that's not what pragmatism means. Pragmatism means is getting the best with what you've got.
00:08:11
Speaker
Right. Your job as a coach, whether it's national team club or whatever, is to mitigate your team's weaknesses, not ex accentuate them by being stubborn because you want to play a certain formation or a certain style. First of all, there was no style. Italy had no style after the Albania game. Okay. They were just reactive. It was, I don't know what was going on and hopefully one day we'll find out what happened because that's not how they should have reacted. was Spaletti overconfident in playing the way against he did it against Spain and destroyed the player's confidence, which is what I thought after the game, that I thought the way that he approached that that game was insane and he should have continued with with what he had done before. But regardless, you know we'll see what happens there. But my thing is, if you know anything about Luciano Spaletti's career, if you know anything about the players that he has developed, if you know anything about
00:09:05
Speaker
how the the football that he's played, the the formations that he has mastered, all of these things as a coach, and also what he did with Napoli as the chilegina su la torta of that career. then you have to be a football illiterate if you say that he was lucky to win the Scudetto with Napoli or that. That's stupid. I mean, you don't understand football. You're a football illiterate. Well, look at Napoli after he's left. No, but look, not just that. As we say in Sweden, you're a football illiterate if you don't understand that he is, based on his entire career, the best coach in the Euros. But equally as true, his decision making has been atrocious and he's got it all wrong. Is it a question, Nimr?
00:09:47
Speaker
because I mean, I was going to discuss this after and also I want to caveat everything that I say about Spoletti that, you know, I'm not
Coaching Styles and Decision-Making
00:09:53
Speaker
saying Spoletti. Like I said, there's there's lots of reasons why Italy failed in these euros. Spoletti is one of them. We're going to get to all the other reasons. So just bear that in mind that everything come caveats. I'm caveats and everything with with with that. um is it Is it possible that he's the best manager in the Euros but is he the best club manager at the Euros and not the best manager? and that Is it a case that maybe he suited more to club football than international football or he hasn't worked that he hasn't that that was his mistake that he needed to realise?
00:10:27
Speaker
the um I hope that is that and I hope it's not the alternative which is he has his way of succeeding, can only succeed in club football in that he has a style of play or a style of play which suits club football. That style of play doesn't suit international football. Could that be the case? This is exactly what I mean when I use the word pragmatism. This is what I mean when I use the word pragmatism. You know, Antonio Conte in 2016 took a world-class goalkeeper, three world-class defenders and utter dross from that part of the pitch upwards to the quarterfinal of the euros against penalties, losing on penalties against the reigning world champions or sorry, the soon to be world champions in Germany, right? Or were they world champions? They were world championship they were there already in 2014. Yes. Sorry. I got my ears mixed up. But.
00:11:20
Speaker
Mitigated that's what I'm saying you your job as a coach in my opinion at national team and club level when you don't have Guardiola budgets is to mitigate the weaknesses in your team because if we see what if we look nima if we look nimma at what has succeeded for Spelletti let's just say take most recently at Napoli you know what type of football did he play with Napoli okay of course the players were were were far far superior to the players he had with Italy that's part of the point his but his success at at Napoli was you know he wanted to press high high line
00:11:52
Speaker
press high up the pitch win the ball you know in the final third win it back quickly you know move one touch one touch two touch passing lots of intensity you know that was his style of play now he didn't have those type of players to to succeed with that with italy or good enough players to succeed with the style of football which which succeeded at napoli so the question comes that yes as you're as you're saying you have to play a different style of football no no my question My question is, is letti but letti does he have the game to be able to to play that? if think that's a very valid question I think that's a valid question. But I'm not even asking him to change his football. I'm not even asking him to change his identity. All I was asking for was to use a formation which the players themselves told him they feel more comfortable in.
00:12:43
Speaker
That's all I'm saying. When, again, for me, formation is irrelevant other than to get balance on the pitch. That's part of the question, though, is can Spoletti succeed in in in using a different formation? I don't think it was down to formation, personally. I think it was it was down to to to to... to other issues which we'll come to, in terms of the mistakes that you made. that to deny that Italy were balanced in a 3-5-2, as opposed to the horror show of this 4-3-3, where if the answer to your question is Stefan il Sharavi and Brian Christante in the Year of Our Lord 2024, you're asking the wrong questions.
00:13:23
Speaker
okay Well, yeah, but the fact that they played has nothing to do with the formation. It's just that they shouldn't have played a 4-3-3. They played a 4-3-3. They played Christophe. Yeah, but they could have played a 4-3-3 without those players. it's not about It's not about the formation. It is. they Well, they couldn't have. They shouldn't have because he shouldn't have been playing Stefano Lusciara in a 4-3-3 in 2020. Well, instead of an association, he shouldn't be playing full stop. It's still got nothing to do with the formation. hes well it has light we do with the formation because that's the formation that suits him this is again what i'm saying now they could have played suanny on the left they could have played they could have played kieza on the left is is that the formation is irrelevant of those plays those players played those play shouldn's have played
00:14:00
Speaker
No, weren't. I think that's wrong to say. They were balanced in one. No, I disagree. If they'd have played a 3-5-2 against Switzerland, it would have been the same exactly the same story. The only reason was that croatia the Switzerland are a far superior team than than than Croatia. And they were losing with the back three anyway. The formation for me is irrelevant. that The issue was But if we're talking about formation, the problem with the formation with Spelletti is he changed formation too much. He was 4-2-3-1 for the first two games. Then he went to 3-5-2 for the third game, and then but then then scrapped it after they went wherever they went behind and went back to a 4-2-3-1 in that game. Oh, no, he didn't. He changed it a half time. No, no, he didn't. He changed it.
00:14:42
Speaker
No, the formation stayed the same. No, the formation stayed the same. He went into a hybrid. No, the formation stayed the same. The formation changed after they went behind. Then he went to a 4-3-3 for the third game. He changed his formation too much. He was changing his formation too much in the build-up to the tournament. Remember when they went to the USA, he tried a back three. Then he came back to a back four with the friendlies before the tournament. as well so the players there's too much change in too much too confusing that was his biggest mistake with the formation because it meant that the Italy players were confused the players didn't know their positions and their movements there was no kind of ah fluency or or patterns of play because the players were moved around too much and then
00:15:24
Speaker
too many personnel changes. I mean, it's absolute madness to make five or six changes. I know, you know, who the players were were probably a bit tired. Obviously, that was his reason. But that's insane because that's due to his in game management. Why the hell was was Georgina playing? How many 90 minutes in in a row? I mean or eighty minutes eighty five minutes in a row I mean we know that he can't do that same with DeMarco playing in eighty ninety minutes two three games in a row when you're playing every four days I mean again this is what I mean his every single decision main decision that he had to make he got it wrong barring zakani
00:15:56
Speaker
I mean, playing Mateo Darmian as a left winger. Which was too late, which was too late of a change as it is. He was lucky in that game. He avoided utter disaster by that viewpoint. But also throwing players in from the cold nimmer. Like, we're talking about overplaying players, which I agree with, but I also again, I'm caveatting it and we'll get to it later with the fact that we just didn't have any other options. Like for me, Giorginio, you could see how much Giorginio was missed in the game against. i'm talking about bringing him your switzerland because in terms of just we had no control in the middle well that's another point but throwing players in from the cold like elhirawi
00:16:27
Speaker
zero minutes in this tournament all of a sudden you throw him in and why elsehira we why not suanies the canes son is such a height after scoing that goal and then and actually in the few minutes that as a canny got I actually think he played pretty well. i Yeah, me
Player Performances and Selections
00:16:40
Speaker
too. I thought he did all he did. I thought he did quite well. why why Why would you start El Shiroi out of the fagioli? You throw him in in a big game like this, you know, and he obviously made the mistake. This is what I mean about easing players. If you rotate in the games and you give these players minutes to adjust themselves, you you you just basically avoid burning them out, especially if they're older or whatever, or have, you know, like DiMarco who starts holding his sides at the 70th minute regardless.
00:17:07
Speaker
you know if you if you rotate these players you don't exhaust them you don't burn them out and you rotate them and you get everyone else into the tournament so that people are just sitting as tourists on the sidelines for two for one and a half weeks and then all of a sudden thrown in yeah this is what i mean it's it's it's a certain picks full stop certain picks full stop i mean i said i said in my post-match i said in my post-match that damyan who had who had a okay he had a horrendous tournament but damyan um you know I cannot accept them and think of Spelletti even though he's 65 he's such a modern progressive coach and you know you like you're saying tactically what a great tactician is I cannot believe that Spelletti of all people would play a right-footed fullback in 2024 at left back when it's so obvious if anyone watched England in this tournament with Trippier at left back you cannot play
00:17:55
Speaker
a right-sided full back at left back in 2024. Unless it's free. Exactly. Unless it's free Islam in 2000. Yeah. He was both footed. He was both footed as well. You cannot play him. You lose all balance in your team, even regardless of how good your team is further forward up the pitch. You lose all balance. And you certainly don't play Matteo Darmian as a winger either. I mean, look, people, it's been annoying And Christante, full stop, can somebody explain to me what the obsession is? It's not just Spoletti, Spoletti, it's Mancini, it's Mourinho. He's the Italian, what's his name, Paredes. How does he keep fighting this? There is this thing with Christante and Galliardini that for some reason, it's like Galliardini at Inter for all those years.
00:18:46
Speaker
coach after coach continued playing him, nobody understood why. I don't know what Cristante does during training. I don't know what he does off the pitch as a person or whatever it is, but there's just some players who are just tactically inept, but the coaches seem to love them. And it's it's the same thing with Galliardini and Inter and we see now with Cristante Roma and and now... I can't accept that, Nimmo. Playing Cristante, full stop. I can't accept it because it doesn't matter. Of course you should accept it. It doesn't matter. I'm not defending it. I'm explaining it. No, I can't accept it. No one no one that played, no game that Cristante ever plays in, if you play Cristante,
00:19:23
Speaker
your midfield loses control of the game, which is what happened in it. Even against weak opposition, I remember the Bosnia friendly, which we played well in before the tournament, we completely dominated the midfield in that game. We looked really good. I remember Christante come on in the second half, all of a sudden, Bosnia dominates and controlling the midfield as soon as he come on. If your Christante is in your midfield, even if you play next to Javi and Iniesta, suddenly the team the team doesn't have possession of the ball anymore. That's what happens when Chris Stenson comes down. Listen, I'm not defending it. No, I'm not saying it to you. I'm just saying I but i can't believe it myself. This is a Galliardini syndrome. This is something they all catch and and it happens and it's just it's exhausting to watch because you don't understand it and you're wondering why are you hurting yourself again.
00:20:04
Speaker
like, and mitigate your weakness. Next criticism of Spelletti Nimmin, the squad choices. Now, I don't place too much on this because as we'll come and see after as we'll come on to after, that we just don't have the players, there just isn't really many, or we just don't really have any alternatives. But I do think that this tournament showed that, not take not saying he would have made a massive difference, but I think he would have been better than Cristante if you're not taking Locatelli, I think was was was shown to be a mistake, wasn't it? Of course it was. He's a dynamic player and he's a player who's won the Euros and he has the experience and it's... No, listen, I think he he should have brought on Locatelli. There's no doubt about that. I mean, there's no there's no discussion. It was a huge mistake. The others...
00:20:50
Speaker
Politano, Niento... Or Saline. Or Saline, yeah. Who cares? Well, I think, listen, I think you're yeah you're're you're fighting over crumbs, as they would say. You know, when when when you're if you're if you're really if you really think that that would have been the the game changer, then then then it it wouldn't. it Maybe it would have been better to have a a left footer in our attack, maybe ah having another winger, and But that brings me on to the point where I think this is where the issue was, was his squad selection didn' an all i didn't an align with the systems that he had used.
00:21:29
Speaker
what was the point What was the point? No, yeah. I mean, it's it's just stupid. like He had no clear plan of what he wanted to do. and Well, that that's that's that that's just just to expand on where I'm starting, Nimmer, that the the squad selection didn't align with the systems he then used. Because clearly, if you look at the squad he picked, picking all those... How many sensor backs did he... Five, I think. Yeah, it might have even be more if you include like Dami and you know like plays that can play a sense of that Yeah, right and then he picked five five full backs as from wing backs as well. That's ten in total I mean that for me that that's that suggested that that he Clearly that he wanted to he picked his squad to play a three-man defense, right? obviously a chair be got injured and that you know that maybe that that that that that He panicked a little bit with that, but you don't his squad selection was was for a three-man defense, but then he basically it became clear that you know and as you know only one game, he started with a back three. All the other games he played with a back four and basically used wingers, but we didn't have enough wingers in the team. and The wingers that we did have but we're obviously weren't very good either.
00:22:36
Speaker
so You know, the squad selection didn't align. Again, that just adds to the whole what confusion and not really having a clear idea oh of of an identity of what you want to do. And I think that's the show.
00:22:51
Speaker
what is yeah um um Yeah and that's my biggest criticism all this together that that you know you've got to go into a tournament with a clear formation a clear idea everybody understanding what you want to do everyone understanding their movements and their patterns because they are using a clear system and yes occasionally you might have to adapt And, you know, if that means you play with a four or you play with a three, you know, whatever it is, you've got to pick a formation. You've got to stick to it. Okay. In games, you're going to adapt sometimes. If you're ahead, you might need to go to a three. If you're losing, you might need to throw an extra map. That's fine. That's no problem. Everybody does that. But to to to so to to be basically experimenting and so so to to be flipping and flopping between formations and then to pick a squad that didn't suit a formation that you ended up ended up using.
00:23:36
Speaker
yeah this is this is This is where i I'm so critical. And then also his communication in that, saying that he changed the formation from a back three to a four because we weren't creating enough, ah but but Italy were but but were balanced defensively, to so fielding that cluster F of a lineup against Switzerland, where what Switzerland had 59% possession in the first half, Italy barely created, got out of their own half. And I mean, I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. That's utter nonsense. and it's you know and And he was nervous. This is what everyone saw was Spaletti at his worst. This is Spaletti at his absolute worst. This this is what he that' this is what got him sacked at Inter in the end.
00:24:21
Speaker
um You know, this is what people... His media communication ima was was bad. but it's not Not just his media communication, but all of these things together. This is what his first tenure at Roma, despite delivering good results, people were fed up with him when he left and were happy when he left because they couldn't deal with him. Again, this comes back to what we said before about the club versus international um ah debate. like You've got to have a demeanor in front of the media but in everything that you do that suggests that you're a leader, that people can look up to you and have trust in you. And he didn't give off that demeanor. His media communication was not good. He was too emotional. He was unclear with his messages.
00:25:05
Speaker
He spoke too much. two and we actually We were kind of half praising him, half criticising this after he went into real detail of that Albania game about tactics and all this kind of stuff. Well, maybe, but I just want i just want a straightforward manager that he spoke too much for me. He talked too much. e carlo goes to sean dake no he was too physical too philosophical none and it wo nonsense no but he was too false so too He was too philosophical at times. I just wanted him to be straight. And I think that game, especially when things start to go wrong and you're talking too much and you're you're going into, you know, you're you're debating, ah you know, life after death and all this kind of stuff, you know, that's pal he's never going to, you can't ask him to do like, he's always going to do that. My issue is not that. My issue is when he
00:25:55
Speaker
when he goes on unhinged tirades where he did against an Italian journalist and he called him in the middle of the night to apologize afterwards. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. My problem with him in communication-wise is referring to di Lorenzo as his son. who was atrocious and continuing to claim that destroys your credibility like stuff like that is what I'm what I what I all of it I just I just don't think I don't have a problem with him being Spaletti that's why I wanted him appointed in the first place because I think you know look he's who you are who you are and he's not going to change the 60 plus okay you know you can't teach an old dog new tricks or old pony new tricks like you just can't right
00:26:32
Speaker
So you know but he gave off he gave off the smell of of of he was he was feeling the pressure, that he was panicking, that he was talking too much, he was going off on tangents and waff and and waff waffling. Yes, waffling. that's That's what I mean. For me, if I'm a player, I'm looking at that and that that doesn't, that's not giving me the positive, you know, anything positive to to take to the games. That's that's going to affect my performance, I think, because you're you're also so you're starting to question the manager, you're starting to think even subconsciously, you're starting to think, well, the manager is under pressure. The manager doesn't seem to be in control of the situation. The manager is not in control of the situation that that then the man plays it in security, creating security. Yeah, that's my that's my point. yeah
00:27:14
Speaker
No, I think you're absolutely right there. He he he he oozed insecurity. He oozed ah a person who was experimenting and didn't know what he's doing. And that's why he made these stupid decisions and in-game management because he looked panicked on the sidelines. And I think after, what is he, 64, 65? How old is he? ah he shouldn't He shouldn't be in that position. And especially if he's had 10 months to prepare. No, that's what I mean. Could you imagine like an enchilote in front of the media? Never going to happen. Or you know, he's going to just, you know, he's, you're going to look at him and and you're going to just, he's just going to command respect and authority. And and that's going to, the players are going to feed off that. um That's what he didn't give. So I criticise him for that. And also I think it showed like the the the whole mental side of things, he failed in his tournament because if you watch the Switzerland game, the lack of urgency
00:27:58
Speaker
he He looked like he was somebody that just couldn't motivate. He couldn't motivate his players. The players looked unmotivated. They they they they they weren't. They were two-year-old down and they they were walking around the pitch, some of them. They they they weren't put throwing men's and men into the box. That's on Spoletti. You cannot motivate your players to show a bit of fire. There was no fight. There was no glinter. Where was the glinter in this game? You know, when you watched Italy in 2016, which was a terrible team as well, you know they were they were all fighting they were running they were firing their bellies conta this is what conte does conte is a master at building ah like a group like that that fights you know his teams are an extension of his personality i believe to some extent a lot of football like it's like this that teams are extension of that manager's personality not just spirit spirit wise but also tactically and i think spalletti he's not a green tagai
00:28:56
Speaker
He's a passionate guy. He's a philosophical guy who sometimes waffles and goes off the reservation. But he's also an artist, artistic guy. But we're not asking for Conte Guinita. We're not asking for the guy from, the captain from Mike Bassett who punched the hole in the wall as he led England out. No, we're not asking for that. We're just, we're asking, what was his name? Gasser or whatever, Gasser, Gasser or whatever his name was. No, Gary Wadock or something. I can't remember what his name was. anyway We're not asking for Gary Waddock. What we're asking for is you're too kneeled down. You're about to go out in the Euros that you'll fight you're fighting. You're showing a bit of fight and desire and you're put throwing men into the box trying to get a go and not ah not just walking around the pitch. you know That's what we're asking for. you know And that is the bare minimum. And we didn't even get the bare minimum. i mean it was i fear It was horrendous.
00:29:47
Speaker
But Spaletti is the kind of coach throughout his career that he he he needs. He's not the kind of guy to react. He's the guy who will build something. And then once, you know, it's harvest time, he harvests. He's not the guy who will change things mid game. He prepares for games in one way. And he he he is very much live and die by the sword kind of, you know, he doesn't change at all like that. um That's just who he is. He he doesn't change mid game. He prepares in one way and then he's willing to die, you know fight win or lose that way. That's just who he is.
00:30:26
Speaker
Um, and, and, you know, that's, that's just, you know, he's, he's an old school Italian coach. Well, let's, let's, let's, I'm sure he was the same way. You know, most of these guys are their school that way. Yeah. Yeah. And I just want to, just want to echo your point about De Lorenzo. That was his other really big mistake in terms of personnel. Persisting with De Lorenzo was, was madness because he was, he was clearly having a, having a, I mean, he had a very bad season as well, but he was clearly having a disaster at the tournament. but Williams broke him. Williams completely broke him and he was a disaster. Because he left in 1v1 again. That's another thing. like again like Regardless of that, he had to be had to swat he had to sub him. Your job is to mitigate your weaknesses. You know who di Lorenzo is and you know who hopefully you know who Williams is. right You don't put in 1v1 with space behind him because that's going to not just destroy
00:31:22
Speaker
him every time he goes past him, but he's also going to... But once that had happened, Nimmer, to persist with him when he was he was disastrous, he wasn't just disaster, he was disaster on the ball as well, wasn't he wasn't just defensively, he was everything, he was he was ah he was he was gone, he was completely gone, he was done, he was broken. Well, except for against Croatia, where him and Darmian look pretty good together. But again, this is what I mean. Like, yeah again, you know, ah I always come back to this. When I interviewed Ricardo Ferri and I asked him, many years ago, after the interview, and I was speaking to him about, you know, comparing the best coaches, you know, if it's era, and and and I said, well, you know, Trappatoni had unbelievable success everywhere. And Saki is a legend at Milan. Who do you think is is the better coach? And he said, without a doubt, Trappatoni, because he said he likened it to a good chef. He said, a world-class chef looks into the pantry and creates you a three-star give Michelin, you know, dishes with whatever he's got there.
00:32:21
Speaker
That's trappatoni. Saki needs specific ingredients in order to cook something. And for me, that's not ah that's that's the difference between a great coach and a legend and world-class coach. And I think... Well, Republico gave a fantastic quote, analysing Spelletti's Euro 2024. He says, you know, you can only make carbonara if you have the the eggs, the pecorino, but if you only have... I'm the guanciale. Don't forget the guanciale. I'm sorry, the guanciale as well. Yeah, sorry. Can't forget that. and If you only have garlic.
00:32:53
Speaker
If you only have garlic and a little olive oil, you need to change the recipe. He didn't understand that. And I think that's the overall point, really. But the question I added to that at the start was, is he able to? Or is it that his recipe is the only recipe of success, and that recipe doesn't... He's more sucky than his trappatoni. But I guess the two teams... Well, we'll see, because he's been confirmed now. So we'll see if he can change the recipe slightly. He's been confirmed. So the question is, Nima, Is it, was it the right decision to confirm it? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not even going to go into that. Cause I don't know. I really don't know if it's the right decision. Personally, I, I, I, I prefer someone who, I mean, I'm, I'm very conservative when it comes to these things. I want to lately, I want to lately.
00:33:39
Speaker
I want Max Alegri. I want to feel comfortable. I want to watch the game win 1-0, snooze in and out. I don't want drama. And I want him afterwards to piss you off so we can have something. That's the real reason. on no I'd say it's probably the majority of the reason, but not the only reason. But I want Alegri. If Ancelotti is not coming, and he's not coming because he's he's doing writing history at Real Madrid, um then and and and can someone please hire allegory please just somebody hire allegory soon please just just anybody like that if ancelotti's not coming in he's not because he's writing history at real madrid um then i i want allegory but that's not going to happen and i think that's fine that's absolutely fine but this is the only caveat and the only demand i have and it's non-negotiable
00:34:28
Speaker
Stop calling up players that don't suit your system. Play your 4-3-3-4-2-3-1 hybrid. Do not call anyone up that doesn't suit that system. Do not call DiMarco up ever again to this team because he cannot play in your system. okay well a question stop that's they talk about that yeah If it means you can't call star players to your team, then don't call them up. build so you have two years now two years to build something properly with an identity stick to your guns and adapt and and pick players that suit your system that's all i ask yeah that's fair enough we'll we'll we'll talk about how we will build after i i would say that
00:35:10
Speaker
he He has disappointed me very, very very much in this tournament and having gone away and thought about it since since the game a little bit more, I have started to question more whether he's the right man for the job. But I um want to give him the benefit, the doubt because of the fact that he you know he didn't have much time. I know people will criticize about 10 matches before the tournament and only two get-togethers. um you know For a manager like Spelletti, when he needs more time with the players, I do think that doesn't need to be taken into account. But at the same time, you could go the other way and say, well, he's never going to get that time with with Italy. So again, is he the right man? Do you need someone like an Ancelotti, for example,
00:35:52
Speaker
you're gonna say a leg group but somebody that will keep things simple someone that will keep things simpler when you don't have the time you know can you have a complex way of playing like Spoletti i say complex but you know try and do the thing you can't do three years to prepare like yeah maybe and that's why i want to give him that that's why i want to give him well that's exactly what i mean and and and see if he see if he can do it because i do think that longer term you know, if we want to try and build something and we'll come to the whole youth stuff afterwards, that it's better to have a Spoletti that is prepared to to have a a more self-sustaining project over a period of time that will be aligned with what, hopefully, Italy wants to do in terms of bringing through places. We'll come to the youth stuff afterwards. so yeah i I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but now his life is used up now. ah There's no doubt about it. Exactly. look looks this my My point, the reason why I punted on your question if he's the right man is because it's... It's irrelevant to this point for me. I think that what matters is identity. Again, I think yeah I'm okay if you sack him. I'm okay that he stays. But what is not what I'm not okay but with and what is non-negotiable is this tinkering.
00:37:00
Speaker
Again, if he's going to stay and he looks like he's going to stay, I want him to stick to his guns and start building a proper identity, a proper style of play, and stick to his form. Yeah, and not betray his principles. Yeah, well, that's exactly what I mean. That's the experiment. Don't let appease the media. Don't even appease the players, which he shouldn't have done. He should have just stick stuck with what he had, whatever it was. He should have stuck with it. But the problem is that he can't send mixed messages like his squad selection. pick like we we've gone through that you want a little bit of this a little bit of that no you need your he's not that guy he's an ideologue just like mancini was you know he had one way of playing that's fine but then stick to it yeah okay stick to those guns
00:37:45
Speaker
caught up with. And that's another reason why Nimmer, just to come in on that, that's another reason why again coming on the kind of the confusion and making himself look a little bit weak and confused with the players that once, I think it's always, you're always on to a little, as soon as you appease the media or your players, you're on to a loser. always. There's hardly any evidence ever of a manager appeasing the media or appeasing the player so openly. No, it doesn't work. It doesn't work because even if it might work for that one game in the long term. You kill your own ability, you kill your own authority. We all know that. No, what I'm talking about is don't call up players.
00:38:22
Speaker
if they don't suit your system. Meaning, Alessandro Bonjourno, forget about him. He doesn't exist. Federico Di Marco, he doesn't exist. You don't want to play, you want to stick to your guns, play your 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, call up only players that suit that system. yeah Regardless of what the... Agreed. I'm obvious of anything else. Because if you don't, and you try to appease him or appease Nat, you have the, you have what what we saw now. Yeah, no, um I agree with you there. Let's move on to the players now. First of all, quickly, because I just want to talk about the top players underperforming. I know this this will be partially collected, sobaettti but it's also down to the players as well.
Highlighting Key Players and Performances
00:39:04
Speaker
i I would say out of this tournament, only two players come out of this tournament as big positives. And those are Donna Ruma, who I thought, I think as we speak now, has been the best goalkeeper in the tournament. Without doubt without a doubt. He's been absolutely brilliant. so
00:39:21
Speaker
again you know all we can say he's been the captain he's shown why he should be the captain you know when he's been a leader he's been a leader at the azzurri and he's he's he showed it once again this tournament yeah and the other player of course was califuri who has been really the only new positive let's say because i think don aruma confirmed himself whereas califuri is the new positive he's come out he's emerged and he's and and that is something that we can take from the tournament and we've we've got this great you know hopefully going to be a great center back and he was you know fantastic in those first three games it's a shame he missed the he missed the Switzerland game but he was he was he was absolutely brilliant and we've spoken about him already I thought Bastani was decent I thought he was decent to good you know I showed that he's ready to lead the defense of the Azurian forward. I think he was, I think Donnaruma Calafiori and Bastogne... And that said, everyone else was... I mean Barrella was decent. I think this notion that Barrella... Until the last game, he was horrendous against Switzerland. Yeah, against Switzerland, he was in no man's land. He looked hungover. He looked like he'd been in one of his own wine cellars. the night before drinking one of his bordos or borgons. And he looked absolutely over. But other than that, those first three games, I think he was. Yeah, but you need it, but you need your big players to you need a Pirella to perform in that game, especially with with your midfield as it is. And he failed when it mattered in that game. But the other big names, if we go through them,
00:40:53
Speaker
Di Lorenzo, horrific Scamaka for me, flop of the tournament. but um I'm trying to think of players from other, I mean, maybe England, we'll see how they get on, but there's some some big names there that have been flopping. but Well, Fodum comes to mind. Yeah, but but you know if we're talking about Italy, Scamaka, flop of the tournament, I mean, for what we expected, you know because we were we were hoping that he would be, because we knew our attack was bad. um But we were hoping that he would be the... you know Look, he he needs to... I love Skamaka. I'm not giving up on him. At all. But this... That's an unforgivable tournament. He needs to sit down, look himself in the mirror and ask himself some serious questions. Because he's 25 years old now. He's not a child. um he These are his peak years.
00:41:47
Speaker
And what we saw this tournament is simply unacceptable. and he come And he was coming off the best form of his career. Exactly. So what more can you want? I mean, what else? you And the attitude, the body language, the the ni the the the complete defeatist look on his face. yeah I'm sorry, but what are you doing? So his performance against Switzerland was was was was was just totally unacceptable. He was just not there mentally. The first half was embarrassing for him. He wasn't moving. He wasn't making any runs in behind. I know. we were we were deep and and we were awful as a team. But if you watched him, his movement, he was he was just walking around the field. He wasn't making runs in behind. He was giving no option deep or behind or coming will come in you come in for the ball. ah Then when he did get the ball, he was panicking and just giving it away. There was one instant where he got the ball kind of just on the halfway line to the right. And he just he basically just panicked and kicked it away and gave it straight back to them. i mean
00:42:45
Speaker
he was so bad um and yes okay you know different styles different managers but i'm sorry if you're a top player if you're a top striker you make it you make it happen you make it happen for you you can you this is this is this was psychological and this was also his attitude his attitude is what the problem is he loses he looks disinterested he looks he looks all the criticisms that we have particular this way i think he's he looks like he suffers from confidence issues Like he's the kind of guy to me that seems like he needs someone one to kicking up the arse to use very frank language in order for him to stay to stay on top of his game. He needs a manager who's constantly kind of knows how to handle him as a person and kick him up the backside to keep him fired up and going.
00:43:31
Speaker
um because the talent I don't think is up for discussion. I think this is a psychological and mental issue and you know what? um I hope he stays at Atalanta now. I hope that Gasperini, because apparently whatever Gasperini does works. Well, no one's going to want to buy him after that. No big club watching that is going to want to... Oh, you don't know. I mean, if if if if the choice for Milan is, after Zilce is Lukaku, I'd rather go with Skamaka. But regardless, ah I think, I hope he stays there. I hope he continues. I hope he has a full good season ah across <unk>aked three three tournaments for Atalanta. And I hope that he learns from this. All the criticisms that we had, Nima, before he went on this, because we people forget, until March, he was having a really bad season. People people forget that now. He was having a really bad, all the criticisms that we had, or what I had anyway,
00:44:17
Speaker
I don't want to speak for you, but all the criticisms that I had on Skamaka going into March were shown during this tournament. and you know his his his his his His lack of movement, his lack of only his lack of game understanding, and his laziness, his movement in the box, especially, was horrendous in this tournament. The best example is that Kiesa bought across the box against Croatia, where you know he has to make that. You have to make that run and get in front of your man. And he was too slow and he he was too reactive. I mean, again, I think it's I think, well, I agree with all of that, because we said it at the time, too, and both of us that, you know, all all of his weaknesses have been laid bare. And then, you know, Gasparini got him going and then we had hope he needs to get he needs to all of those things need to be addressed. And he has to show that it's not just ah he's not just a foreign player, but it's a consistent player. um And I still think that he is
00:45:12
Speaker
I mean, I still think he should be the starting number nine. I just think that he needs to start learning. He needs to start showing development and mental strength and the only way to come out of such a disappointing a horrible performance is to work harder and and do better next time. That's all you can do. Yeah, I'll just run i'll run through the others quickly because we will speak about these after when we get to the but look at the the squad for the World Cup. Giorginio obviously has passed his best now. Giese, sadly, not not the same anymore, though I did think he actually was okay against Switzerland. but and and Federico Giese, we need to stop this now. I've been with but his his biggest proponent ever since he came through it for Fiorentina.
00:45:51
Speaker
Let's just, it's over. This is ah this is a 5th, 6th, 7th Serie A player. level now. but That's who he is. He's not a top player anymore. It's it's over. Look, you know, how we've watched him after the ACL killed him. It's as simple as that. The ACL injury has killed him. He's killed his career, just like with Zagnolo, who looked like a generational player. Two ACLs later. I mean, look at him. He's he's become a meme. I'm sorry. It's it's it is what it is. You need to stop this. You need you need to he's how old his kids are now.
00:46:23
Speaker
26. Yeah, you need to look at what he's done in his career. He's 26 years old. I'm sorry, but no. The saving gears I think needs to stop. We need to look very bluntly. We need to be very honest and just look at the results and what he's achieved. And it's just not good enough. It's just not good enough. And it's not just one year. It's not just one game. It's season after season after season. Yeah, it's sad. It's sad. And indeed it's it's as simple as that. Zanyo, Lokieza, you know, these these were generational players that that the the injuries... Well, we'll come on to injuries. that that way that We will come on to that, Nima. Don't worry. Darmian as well. Horrific tournament. I don't want to see Darmian and DiMarco ever again in the... italian Oh, DiMarco as well. Gosh, we forgot about him. We're talking about flops.
00:47:08
Speaker
He was horrendous, horrendous tournament for DiMarco. There's one thing you expect from him. We know that, you know, as a left-back, he's not going to be that suited to the defensive side of the game, to the run-in. You know, he doesn't last the full games and stuff. We know about all that. But one thing that DiMarco always brings is when he has the ball at his feet. he He, you know, his delivery, his use of the ball, he didn't hardly ever see him give it away, even if it's just a simple pass for Inter. His crossing, his his chance creation is well-class, what has been for Inter. Even that's that side of his game was horrendous in this tournament. He was crossing, neb but wasn't even beating the first man. well yeah He was giving it away. We know that he had physical problems, but we but more than that, he was just not there mentally. um and and ah And that's another thing.
00:47:57
Speaker
I don't, as long as Spalletti is the coach of the Italy national team, I don't want to see DiMarco there. It's a waste of DiMarco's time. It's a waste of Italy's time. It's a waste of everyone's time. he's If you're going to play Federico DiMarco, you have to play a system that suits him. Spalletti does not want to play a system or a formation that suits Federico DiMarco. It's a waste of everyone's time to to to call him up. Simple as that. Yeah, yeah. Simple as simple as that. You might you might be right. You might be right. It's it's like it's it's getting ridiculous. Like there's no, you know, the same thing with Darmian. Like you play him as a left winger. He did well in the first half against Croatia playing as a right centre back, which is his position now. Left or right centre back maybe can cover the last 15 minutes as a wing back. But if you're going to play him as a winger, attacking winger, and then wonder why he's not doing well,
00:48:45
Speaker
yeah yeah well okay Let's move on off from that then, Nima. So we've we've we've been very, very critical, of course, of Spelletti, of the players, but we now have to acknowledge that Italy lack quality of players. We have to be open that, and again, as I said, when I was caveating on Spelletti, we have to accept that this is one of the weakest Italy squads in history. There's there's no doubt about it. If we look at the attack, listen listen to these names of attackers. schmmaca litagueza kany alshirawi kieza raspidoi Those are the six attackers that we took. That's a Roma reserve wing bat for the last two years, let me say. A Napoli reserve, a lower half, lower Serie A striker from Genoa, a Lazio player, an Atalanta striker with one goal for Italy.
00:49:31
Speaker
and a winger who sadly, as we've just as you just said, has been a shadow of himself since since the a the ACL. The number of goals for Italy that these players have, seven, seven, six, four, one, one. I mean, it's a horrendous attack. The the equality is just just not there. Our attacker scored one goal in four games. Our strikers had one shot on target in the tournament. only four Only four teams in the Euros had less shots on target than us in total. zero shots on target for but for our team, but let's just say, talking about the attack against Spain, one shot on target against Switzerland. We had no shots in in full stop against Switzerland until the 73rd minute. So, I mean, that attack is absolutely horrendous. So, I mean, there's only, yes, we can criticise pretty, but there's only so much you can do when you've know and listen when you've got an attack like that. And we have to we have to, everybody has to accept that. There's no doubt about that. We have to acknowledge that there's a problem in quality.
00:50:27
Speaker
but let me just compare to 2016 what Antonio Conte had. Simone Zaza, Grazia Nopelle, Chiro Immobile, Edder and Lorenzo Insini who doesn't really suit suit his 352 system. So compared to that with and brought brought to the quarterfinals losing on penalties to the world champions to the absolute mess that we saw. I do think that, yes, even again, I go come back to this. Your job as a coach is to mitigate your weaknesses, not accentuate them. Antonio Conte did that with that squad. Spalletti did the complete opposite with this squad. It doesn't mean that this squad of attackers or are or the creme de la creme in Italian football history. Of course it doesn't.
00:51:17
Speaker
nuance. What it means is that Spaletti took a bunch of players that maybe aren't the greatest ever or aren't the greatest ever or good players and he didn't get the best out of them. So it's not one or the other. It's right hand washes, left hand, left hand washes, right hand. No, no, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. But, you know, we've done the coach. We've done the coach. No, no, I'm just saying. No, no, you're absolutely right. I think everybody will agree with you there. There's no doubt about that. But, you know, we have to acknowledge that this is not good enough. No, they're not good enough. But this is not good enough for Italy. These are our attackers. If we were taking this group of attackers to a Euros, we've got a serious, serious problem. And I would also go for the midfield. See, I think this hasn't been highlighted enough about how weak our midfield was in this tournament. You know, we've gone from the best midfield in the world at Euro 2020. Spain might try and fight us for that. But I think Italy had the best midfield in the world. Yeah. I mean, that's three world class players, right at that time. And we've gone from the best midfield in the world to one of the weakest midfields, in my opinion, among certainly among the top nations, and one of the weakest midfields we've ever had in the space of three years. And obviously, there's some reasons for that missing players, which we'll come to. But you know, against Switzerland,
00:52:37
Speaker
were and again i know this this is also partly spettti choices but against Switzerland in the first knockout game at the Euros. We're playing Brian Christante and a player coming off a 7th month betting ban in our midfield, in our three man midfield. I mean that says it all. We have a midfielder who who you know if we're looking at the squad who's passing his pub level standard for Atezi 40% pass accuracy against Croatia it's embarrassing we have a Verona player our number 10 is Lorenzo Pellegrini who I think is a good player but he's not a great he's he's he's clear he's not more than a good player he's a good player
00:53:12
Speaker
Maybe at the club level a very a very good player at most at club level, but he's too slow. He's not a top player Pellegrini. He's not. no He's not a top player at world class. No, no, of course not. And but he's and then we've got Giorgino who's obviously 32. He's passed his best. He can only play once a week now. um So, you know, I think our midfield was very weak as well in this tournament in terms of... in terms I agree with a person everything he said, but again, again,
00:53:39
Speaker
Stefano Storaro, Daniela de Rossi at 32, Tiago Mota at 33, um Jacarini, Marco Parolo. These are the players that beat that Spain side 2-0 in 2016. You cannot sit here and tell me that this midfield is qualitatively worse than that midfield. No. No, you can't. But again, we can't use that. No, I'm not using it as an excuse. No, I'm not using it as an excuse, but we've got to acknowledge that as a nation, we cannot be going to tournaments with an attack in line up like this, with a midfield line up like this, and then just blame the coach and not accept that this is a good one. I'm not blaming the coach. I'm not saying that. This isn't direct to you. I'm not direct to this at you. I'm just saying that this is a big, big problem if we go into tournaments with this level of players. We can't win tournaments unless you're creating a miracle. I mean, Conte got to the quarter-final. He didn't get further than that, but he created a miracle to get to the quarter-final. That was miracle stuff. The reason why I keep banging on about that, about what Conte did, because I think that is his greatest achievement as a coach, is because that's when I think Conte is at his absolute best.
00:54:55
Speaker
when and that he proved it in that as well when his back against the wall when he has to when you have to deliver come hell or high water turning Perisic into a wingback when he had failed to do so previously, winning him over, getting him at that point in his career to accept the wingback role, getting Ericsson at that point in his career. These are experienced players. I agree with you. But, you know, getting him to play as an Agista. If we're relying on our manager. No, no, I'm just saying that's what I want from my manager. to to do it, to to to to ah react like that as well, of course, as qualitative. Yeah, listen, we we I agree with, listen, no again, no one is disagreeing with you. The point is, though, we're going to these tournaments with this level of players. If we're having to rely on a manager performing a miracle for us to have a great tournament, then then then that is the problem. you know we can't we know if If Italy were going to get to deepen this tournament and try and win this tournament,
00:55:52
Speaker
Spelletti would have had to have done a miracle, basically. Maybe maybe when you look at the draw, maybe not. but we got a weak draw but If we were on the other side of the draw, for example, and we we got deep in this tournament, Spelletti would have had to perform a miracle with the squad that you've had available. That is a problem. We can't go to tournaments having to pray that we have a manager like Conte or whoever performing a miracle. And the quality of players, I mean, even a sense about one player is out, one player is suspended, and Gianluca Mancini is coming in. Yeah, you know again, Yeah, but okay, you can say Spoletti made the right wrong choice, but Bongiorno is there like, but Alessandro Bongiorno exists. Like, yeah you know, but again, what we're having to play all the left-sided centre backs in this tournament. Where are the right-sided centre backs? Why are we not producing any right-sided centre backs? You shouldn't have to play two left-sided centre backs. That's, that's also a problem as well. Our full backs we thought was going to be a strong point for us this tournament. They weren't.
00:56:45
Speaker
They were horrific. Cambiaso, when he played, was horrific as well. Yeah, he was. He was supposed to be. But I think, you know, there's the quality, basically the point that the quality of players just isn't there. And our terrible recent record proves that this is this is systematic. You know, the Euro 2020 Again, let's not rewrite history. The Euro 2020, we were great from start to finish, from qualification to winning the title. or We were the best team. We deserved to win that title. There's no doubt about it. Manchini did a great job. We had a world-class midfield. We had two world-class centre backs. We had a great goalkeeper. We performed well as a team. We went on a long unbeaten run. We deserved to win. were not not Anybody that starts saying, oh, that was a fluke, blah, blah, blah. Oh, piss off. I was talking stupid. But
00:57:28
Speaker
Euro 2020 as a whole tournament from qualification, that is an exception to what we've seen from Italy in general over the last 15 years. like we've not We've not qualified for a World Cup for ten for tooth well what will be 12 years if we get there since 2014. We've not played a World Cup knockout game since winning the World Cup in 2006. It will be 20 years In what will be twenty years both on the next one we've had basically two great tournament two thousand and twelve and two thousand and twenty we had one tournament where we punched way way way above our way with a terrible team in two thousand and sixteen to get to the quarter final and then you had which is not a you know. which is ah which is not the semi to the final, but we punch way above our weight just ah just to get to the quarters. ah Everything else has been a disaster with it. So what we have to say is that this, what we've seen in this tournament is, is closer to our true level than, than winning Euro 2020. There's no doubt about it. Absolutely. So we can't, that's just the hard truth. That's the hard truth. And we can't, so we can't, we can't just say, Oh, you know, if we had a better manager, we'd have done this or that. Yes. Spelletti had a horrible, horrible tournament disasters tournament.
00:58:36
Speaker
But the bigger picture is the that our quality of players is not is not good enough, Nimr. No, it isn't. and And I think that overall, and and I think that's the thing, though, and that's why I want Allegri, all jokes aside, that when you are in this in this situation, again, when you have a coach, that you when you have a crop of players that are who they are, then you're going to have to try to work miracles in order to get results. And as opposed to, I mean, you're at a crossroads. Do you go with the ideologue with like with Spalletti and you try to build something long term playing one way or do you try to and or do you just look at it and go, look, this is this is the best I've got. I need to make the best out of the situation. I need someone who can make the best out of the situation. So, you know, but that's personal choices. My issue is regardless of which crossroads you take, left or right or Allegri or Spalletti or whatever.
00:59:30
Speaker
stick to your gun, stick to your identity, and if it fails in two years time, we'll know, and then you proceed from then on. yeah ah this This back and forth needs to stop. yeah That's what I'm saying. Yeah, now for sure. i mean my my ah I'm more concerned with the bigger picture, and the the the manager, who is manager of the senior Italy national team, only plays a very small part of this so it's not really so much so much although I do think he should be aligned in the synergy should be there from top to bottom is we need to work out a way to to to make sure that we are producing more players and developing more players and that brings us down to to to to the youth youth development which is a very big talking point it was a big in in the press conference that Gravena
01:00:13
Speaker
ah had it was it was asked a lot about the lack of opportunities that youth players get so this is the bigger problem ah and the path we've discussed it before and I wanted to discuss it when we have a week we're going to be interviewing someone from the under 17
Youth Development and Its Impact
01:00:29
Speaker
youth Italy national national youth set up in part of the staff and we go I want to ask them about this and in a few weeks when we we when we speak to him. The pathway from youth to senior football at club level is abysmal and it's killing the Italy national team that there is no pathway. The last 15 years there has been no pathway and Italy right now are under 17 and under 19 euro champions. We're under 20 World Cup runners up we are right now the best youth team in in international football. That's that's that's just fact with that over the last two years. Now the problem is, is how can we get these players from getting from under 17, under 19 level and under 20 World Cup into Serie A, playing regularly, from a young age and then developing because that had just has not happened and is it still isn't happening. the others under night I went through and looked at this in preparation for this show because I wanted to make sure I had my facts right.
01:01:26
Speaker
Only one player from the under 19 euro champions last year is played played regularly in Serie A last season That was Michael Coyote at Fiorentino had 26 Serie A appearances That also came about partly thanks to luck because Dodo got a ah serious ACL injury missed most of the season So Coyote came in but okay, whatever it happened. He played that's good um That's it. Only one player from the under 20 World Cup team Matteo Platti at Caliore ah had has played regularly, and in and they're a little bit older, but has played regularly in Serie A last season. Baldansi got scraps at Empoli, who were at the bottom of the table when he was there. Then he went to Roma and got even less scraps at Roma. ah One of the most exciting youngsters in Italian football, ah at his age level, I mean, he he looked incredible at his age level, Simoni Pafundi, he couldn't even get a kick. And I love Udenezer, we've got a good relationship. He couldn't even get a kick at an Udenezer team with one of the worst that attacked in Serie A.
01:02:24
Speaker
you know, they had that, what, who's it? The Watford lad that scored like one goal in two years, you know, he was playing instead of him. I mean, he had to move to Switzerland and then he got the under 17 winners. Okay. They're a little bit young, but you know, there's some really big talents there, you know, Kamada, Liberati from Milan. I know what you're saying. So the pathway to get these youngsters from youth to senior. it just isn't there. I think you're absolutely right. I agree 100% with there is a problem from in terms of pathway to the Serie A because they don't need to start for Inter Milan and Juve or Roma or Lazio, but they need to at least play for the smaller Serie A teams, the Empolis, the provincial side. I think Leccia is actually doing a good job, but at the same time,
01:03:17
Speaker
There's the other, I understand they're trying, they're fighting for their survival in Syria. So they want to, you know, they'd rather cut their, you know, minimize their risks, which I understand. But I do think that there is a problem with, with youth, the, the, the, the, the, the, the non-existence, the non-existence road between youth ah success at international level and Syria being in Syria asides or Syria asides in particular. That I do think is a problem. But I do want to say this. I'm getting really exhausted, really exhausted of listening to people piss and moan about youth, comparing Italy to Spain. Italy does not have, uh, Nico Williams. Okay. Italy does not have, uh, what's his name? Lamine, um, what's name it eludes me now? Lamine Yamal. Yamal. Yeah. they Where, where is he? Where is he?
01:04:14
Speaker
in Italy. Who's that supposed to be? i sorry this is but This is nonsense. this is This is what drives me insane. No, it's not just the pathway. It's also the quality. It's deeper than that. it's not It's not black or white either way. you know this this is This is where we can go deep. We can go into the youth systems and we can look at how in Spain, for example, every single every single youth team in Spain from from like under eight under nineteen nine level, and you know, they they all generally, ah so certainly at teams like Barcelona and other and other teams, they all have the same style of football, the same patterns of play, the same formations often in every single youth level. And so look they all understand so that makes that pathway. Let me finish. Let me finish them. That pathway becomes a lot easier to move up from under 12 to So from under 16s up straight into, so the La Miniamel going from under 16 straight up into the Barcelona youth team, that pathway is easier because of course cause because he already understands all the patterns, it's it's not so much of ah ah of ah of a jump because he already can already fit in technically and and tactically. so Because you're talking about you're talking about uniformity, I get that. And I think that's, you know, if you look at Real Madrid even, Real Madrid and Barcelona, what are the traits that are important there?
01:05:27
Speaker
well it's a technical passing style of football and so you know the patterns of play all of that is very similar and so therefore there is also ah you know pipeline almost to those teams from youth as well right in Italy we don't have that and we need to you're not going to if you expect as Sven always says Italy's Italy it's never going to change you're never going to get Italy to you're never going to get an identity change where you have 20 teams in Serie A all deciding together that they're going to play a specific style of football. That's never going to happen. Every country has its identity, every country has its culture, its own history. So what you need to do is to find a way to that where you can start getting players into Serie A so that they can start playing in the Serie A, show that they're good enough, and then take the next step. My problem is that is with that stat.
01:06:19
Speaker
only one player of the under 19 euro champions played regularly in Serie A last season. That is a problem. Yeah, that needs. Yeah, no, we're not. We're not. Listen, when you use extremes, you know, with Yamal and and and Williams, you know, that that kind of clouds over the fact that like you said, there's one player. I mean, yeah that's not that's not acceptable because you can't I'm sorry, you can't tell me that that they did you I know you you've success doesn't always doesn't always translate into senior success because there's lots of lots of things that happens can happen in between. But the fact that, you know, we're Euro under 17, Euro under 19, under 20 World Cup runners up and none of these players are getting a chance. I'm sorry, but they're not getting the chances. You know, we're not saying that these players should become Yamal or Williams and be playing 3-0-6-0. But they should at least play for a cameo or an empoli or a lectre. Yeah, exactly. And the problem is, is the pathway isn't there from there. They're either having to go out on loan, they're going out on loan to substandard lower leagues. I mean, there's the steady achieve thing. OK, I think that's a positive and a step forward that they try to address.
01:07:19
Speaker
bringing in these these B teams for Milan. ah Milan, now Milan events has already had one. Milan and Atalanta have got them. I think that's a step forward. You know, I'm not going to sit here and say that that's, you know, that that that said, I am. But the problem is, though, is that city isn't a high enough level. You know, you go to city, that's better than playing at Primavera level. I would accept that. But it's still the level is not high enough. Have you ever watched city of football, you know, or city of the football? You know, I'd say it now and again because Fodger, my dad's team are in there. The level is horrendous. I'm sorry. No disrespect to all these teams. You know, we've got friends in those levels, but it's not good enough. You know, Kamada is going to go there next, next season. That's not good enough for Kamada. I wish Kamada would have gone to Serie B. That's what I wish. I think at that age, he would have been, it would have been very interesting to see him play in the Serie B. I think it would have been very, very interesting to see him play in the Serie B.
01:08:15
Speaker
um I don't want youth rotting away on the bench. I don't. I want to see them play regularly. Now, I agree with you that I think the seriachi could be a little bit, you know, for some players, it could be too low. But regardless, I want to see them play regularly. I really do, because that's the only way they learn. um And someone like Camarda would have liked to see him in Serie B. But regardless, I think this format, the under 23 sides for the bigger clubs, is, you know, going up the the youth, of the system up to Serie B, Serie C, and then capping them so that they can't get up higher than Serie B. I think that's the way to go. I really think that's... Well, they did that in Spain. Yeah.
01:08:56
Speaker
But Barcelona B or Real Madrid Castilla can't get into the La Liga. Well, I think that's the way to do it. I really think that's the way to do it. um Because that way you at least have resource rich clubs. or the biggest clubs, financial with the biggest financial muscles in Italian football, being able to to play, quote unquote, young players and talented players. And and then, you know, like, I think Juve, you know, with Varnachea and in Sule, ah you know, have have shown the way there, you know, Samuel Elling Junior and so on. I think they've actually shown that, I think that's a really good good way to do it.
01:09:36
Speaker
um Then, of course, the question becomes, well, you know, why doesn't Uwe keep Suleian? That brings me on nicely and to, you know, ah again, how we how we how we view young players in Italy. One, we view them with caution. We don't want to give them chances, as as we've just discussed. um But also, you know, we we're we're viewing ah young footballers as financial assets rather than sporting ah assets. And and you know clubs are selling off youngsters for the plus valenza because when you sell off a player that that has grown in your uses and that represents full profit.
01:10:15
Speaker
on your accounts. So clubs are selling off and and you know and we've seen this, look at Juventus, look at the history of Juventus, Inter ah Milan, look at all the big clubs, the the the number of young talented players that have come through the academies that they've sold for for money, just to just so that they can then fund their transfer market. And again, this comes down, this is why it's a cycle. This is why England have produce had been producing so many talented young English players, because there's so much money in the game, they can invest in in their youth system, they can invest in the best coaches, the best sports science, but they also, you know, when they get youngsters, they don't have to sell them off to try and fund their transfer market, because they've already got enough money for their transfer market um already. So, you know, we are we are just setting off, that probably Atalanta are the exception, they're the one team that
01:10:59
Speaker
they actually use their youngsters that come through and before selling them off. But you know, you look at the other teams, I mean, they're just using them just to, just to, just to, and Juventus are doing it again, this, this, this summer, you know, they've sold off Barre Necea, they, they, if the right offer comes in for Sula, they'll probably sell in, if they get a lot of big offer for Sula, they'll sell in. But I mean, but there's also fine, you have to also live in the, live in the financial reality you live in. And you ah and this is and The but point is, this is where Serie A doesn't help. Serie A is not helping us, the state of Serie A. I mean, if you look at Inter with Carboni, for example, Valentin Carboni plays regularly now part of the Argentine national team setup, right?
01:11:38
Speaker
um They've made it clear they don't want to sell him. They want to loan him to another Serie A club and see how he develops and then try to integrate them because they believe in it. yeah you know So I do think that we have turned a corner with this. I'm going to be honest with you. I do think that we have turned a corner. I think I look at that's why I'm not too negative moving forward. uh with with with this Italy team um because I mean I guess I guess that's a nice segue to to the next well just just to finish off on this Nima is that I do I do want to make because it was raised again about the the number of foreigners that are playing in in Syria 67 percent of footballers in Syria are foreigners Milan have one Italian in their starting 11 Juventus probably doing working it out what their team is how their teams can love um um
01:12:25
Speaker
I'm thinking it's going to be two outfielders that are Italian, three at the most. If Locatelli can break back into the team. Napoli have got one, I think we'll have one Italian, maybe two actually, because they're buying Bordeaux, aren't they? Two Italians. as well if they decide to keep it. Well, yeah, but I think I'm not sure if they'll stop. But Udenezer, the big one, again, I'm going off Udenezer, they've got one outfield Italian in their 30-man squad. A 30-man squad, only one outfield Italian. Yeah, that's a problem. And in the most recent study done by the CIES, Serie A ranked 38th out of 40.
01:13:03
Speaker
out of forty out of the top 40 leagues in Europe in terms of percentage of minutes played by club-trained players. So that's players. Again, that comes back to the point of not giving your players that you train, that you've played as a chance. They're not giving them chances. They're just selling them off or loaning them out. and So I think it is this this there needs to be a culture change. in That needs to be addressed. That absolutely needs to be addressed. um but but That for sure needs to be addressed. I mean, obviously, the EU law means that it's not possible unless we leave the EU. I don't think it will leave the EU. Do it in full Brexit. Yeah, do it in Italy. It'll exit because Carlo's unhappy with how you think it's going. I'm full Farage and Salvini now. Just bring back the foreign rule. 11 Italians, I believe. Oh my God. No, but listen, I mean, that's just not going to, you know,
01:13:58
Speaker
But the bottom line is that the pathway needs to change because if it doesn't... That's the most important thing. If this doesn't change, then fair enough. Complain as much as you want that it's untrue. We're going to continue going to Euros with these kind of squads and we're going to continue not qualifying for World Cups. We're going to go three World Cups without qualifying. Fine. Listen, I think that is the main takeaway, the lack of pathway to the Serie A as a whole for these youngsters. That is what worries me. um and And that's what I would like to somehow address. But, you know, moving forward, I'm not disappointed, a long word, but I'm not too worried. Because if, you if like I said, you stay now that you've decided to stick with Spaletti,
01:14:45
Speaker
You full on stick to the Spalletti project. You fully on marry that Spalletti project. Similarly to how you married the Mancini project when he took over after the disaster that was that preceded his era. You give him the time. the two It's a two year project now. Give him the time. Give him the space. to fully integrate with the ideas he wants, meaning if he doesn't want to call up certain players because they don't suit his style, then so be it, no matter who that player is. yeah So when I look forward, I'm looking at, it's I'm not too worried.
01:15:21
Speaker
I look at Udoji. Let's move on. to can of Can we just come on to that in a little bit, Nima? I just want to just quickly, um three more reasons why Italy, or three more factors that we need we need to just just just go through quickly. First of all, the FIGC needs to be held accountable. All the criticism is of the players and and the and you know a lot of criticism on the players and obviously of Spoletti, but the FIGC in general the way, you know, and the Italian said, yeah, it's not helping Italian. I mean, stadiums not being developed, the backwards marketing, the pathetic TV deals, you know, it's all, it's all, it's all into what? It's all connected. It's all connected. It's all connected. as Yeah. said Yeah. Yeah. No, it all does. It all does. But should Gravina go?
01:16:07
Speaker
No, I don't think so. um He's got he's his friends with the right people who control Italian football. hes There's no need for him to go. And also, you know, if you look at ah youth level, they are delivering the results. No, he's not. He's not going to go. I think it would be at this point. It's it's not time for him. His election is up next. I don't see him going anywhere. um I don't see him going anywhere. Well, the the buck stops with the ne with the senior national team. You can say what you want about the club, about the youth team. if you If you don't qualify for the World Cup and then you produce this kind of performance, I think your job has to be on the line. Yeah, but I don't... It has to be on the line. this That's just... that's just he's He's not going to go... If Italy lose the Euros in 2032 due to this mess with the stadiums, then they all the entire board should resign.
01:17:00
Speaker
um But other than that, I don't see him going. I really don't. Two more points. In fact, we'll we'll we'll talk about them together.
Impact of Fitness and Conditioning on Performance
01:17:07
Speaker
The injuries, we have to again, we have to accept the injuries also played a big reason in this in this failure. Like we were missing or injuries and absentees. We were missing Tonali, Udoji, Achebe, Beradi, Zaniolo and Scalbini. All six of those would have been in the squad. That's three first team players at least. I think Tonali, Tonali in a chair be definitely full first would have started. Berardi, if he's playing a winger system, which is what he wanted to play, he would have started as well. And then a dodgy as soon as DiMarco is performing as badly as he was, I think a dodgy comes into the team, you would think you would think he'd come in a team if he would have picked him, you know, so that's for first team players there, you know, and I'm sorry, any any team.
01:17:45
Speaker
um or any squad any country would would would would suffer as a result of missing all those missing all those places we have to acknowledge that needs to be but that always but that brings us on to a bigger point uh and that is the physical condition of the players was was terrible in this tournament it's not just injuries but we were so badly conditioned this tournament like we we just we didn't have the energy we didn't have the intensity we just looked physically completely inferior, to certainly to Spain, but to Switzerland as well. um This has been a problem you know for a while now. you know are we true about the train i mean I've spoken to people that that say that the way that we train and condition players, injury prevention, we talked about the ACLs, the big players, Akiese, Zagnolo, Scalvini,
01:18:29
Speaker
um the injury prevention but also the way that we condition our players to get them fit and running and at a physical level required is we're behind the rest of the rest I don't think it's just that I think it's also how they're trained um I don't think it's just that I think they burn out easily um lots of players um and
01:18:51
Speaker
They don't do it in other countries and they play just as many games. And so you have to ask yourself what the difference is there without being conspiratorial and referring to bangs bow and whatnot. I seriously look at France, look at England. Well, it's come back at it. very fair. No, this is what I mean. Like, what is it that, you know, they play just as many. Those those are top players, world class players. They play for the biggest clubs. They play just as many games as Italian players, but they don't look burned out. So what what what's happened there? I think that's the question you want to ask and that's what you need to look at. What's the difference there in in in training, in in keeping these guys up in the fitness tests, in the analysis, all of those things. that That's what I want to know.
01:19:33
Speaker
for me more than anything there's no doubt about the injuries there's there's no doubt about that there's they need to have a deep deep talk there they need to have very good introspective because again you if you if you were to go through all the big nations and you were to take their two best up-and-coming players and give them ACLs see how they would do in the next few tournaments they're going to suffer as a result aren't they well za or double I mean, imagine imagine you went to Germany. Pick who are their two best young talent. Yeah, Luciano and Würz. Well, Würz actually did have an ACL, to be fair. but oh but i' i'm taking i'm taking um well Well, that's also another question then. Why is Würz able to come back from an ACL and play as well as he did, but it's Italian players, Chiesa is looking finished. yeah that's a good I mean, I know they're playing different positions, but I mean, again, I think when you when you look at these things, when you look at sports science,
01:20:20
Speaker
because it's a science, you should everything should be open. You should be look under no stone unturned. yeah ask if Ask every question. we're no longer the collector data and the Collect the data and then analyze it. In the 80s and 90s, we were at the forefront of of of ah of of of the medical world in football. and We were. you know I remember when all the likes of Vialy and Zola and Ravinelli came to to England. i remember that I remember at the time, you know it was all they used to laugh at the way that physical preparation and the way that they trained here you know in England and and how Italy was so far in Milan lab you know how how far advanced Italian football was in the medical department and now we're we're behind the rest of the world and yeah we find and keep our players fit. Well I think that's addressable I think all of those things are addressable because it's not like Spanish players and French players and German players or English players are a different species
01:21:16
Speaker
They're all humans, so they should be able to this should be addressed. this This lay at the sports science and and and analytic analytic analytical level. so you know it's it's This is addressable, and that's why I'm thinking, you should I want to collect all the data, all questions, then based on that, draw your conclusions and and choose a pathway forward. I think that's the best way to do it. That's the evidence-based way of of of looking at that specific issue. um And I think that's something we need to worry because it is worrying. I'm i'm really like, Zagnolo, 2 ACLs, Kia, Zaskalvini. This is not good. this is you know These are really talented players who who have careers ruined.
01:22:01
Speaker
because of these horrible. And then it then affects the Italy it then affects the italy team. Of course it does. yeah Okay, just before we finish off, um let's look ahead now. Let's try and bring some light to all this darkness and look at what the next, the new Italy can look like under Luciano Spelletti now that he is staying.
Future Squad Considerations for Italy
01:22:20
Speaker
Spelletti said in his press conference on Sunday that he will be looking to pick a younger Italy squad with more energy, with more energy going forward. Fantastic. So what we what we will do, Nimmer, is let's go through, first of all, the Italy's Euro 2024 squad. I'm going to read through each player very, very simple, in or out, whether we we remember they should be part of the new Italy looking ahead to the 2026 World Cup or
01:22:50
Speaker
this should they should be axed and this should be the end of them so starting off with the with the three goalkeepers Donnarumma that's an easy one in he's the captain so yeah Dicario in in the squad second goalkeeper Meretz Out, Karanaseki or Di Gregorio. Yeah, agreed, agreed. Di Gregorio for me. Let's go through the defense now. Di Lorenzo, out? Out, I think. it's He's not going to because that's his son, quote unquote, um which is stupid, but he's not going to. But I think, yes, I think it's time to start looking for different options. Federico Di Marco. Out, he doesn't suit Spaletti's system and it's a waste of everyone's time.
01:23:33
Speaker
I would keep him in for now, but I would certainly probably pick Udoji as my starter and maybe DiMarco could be someone to come somebody to come on when they when the tempo ah is dropped last 30 minutes or something to give that quality. But but yeah, I do see your point there. Bonjour, no? Well, no point in calling him up because he's a center center back in the back three and he doesn't want to play with that. So no, he can. He can. I would say in, listen, he, I would say in not a starter, but it has to be in. We need, we need, we need, he can't play in the back four and he can't play in a high line. What?
01:24:11
Speaker
What's the point? but I mean, this is what I mean, Carlo. Look, you can't we can't sit here and say you can't tinker. and Look, you will come to me. Listen, I remember when Roberto Mancini was not called up on the Italy side due to also off field issues, but also tactical issues. Right. I remember when when when when when Lippi got rid of Roberto Bajo twice. Well, yeah, but we had we had sorry, we had world class alternatives. Yeah. No, no, don't call up on John. No, you can who'd you to call up? Jennifer Mancini? I mean, no, but no, um listen, my point is, if you're going to play with a back four, if you're going to play with a high line, you need either that or get rid of Spaletti. You can't have it both ways.
01:24:50
Speaker
because it's obvious that when Spaletti's not capable of doing things. Well listen, for me for me he's in because until until you can give me better alternatives to be in the squad, I can have the guy with Bongiorno. We have to work with him. Just just to just ah before I have some idiot coming at me, I'm not saying that Bongiorno's not good enough to be in the Italian team. what i'm saying is yeah we're talking about the squad yeah this one no no no no no listen i'm not saying that bonjourno is not good enough to be in the italian national team that's not what i'm saying so i don't need someone coming at me saying oh you said he's not good no that's not what i'm saying i'm saying if he doesn't suit his system they shouldn't be in the team because otherwise
01:25:26
Speaker
like I said earlier, look at what happened against in this tournament, the tinkering back and forth. It doesn't work. Well, yeah, listen, I hear your point. I hear your point. I'm just saying that also we have to be realistic with the options. And if you don't call up Bonjour because it doesn't necessarily suit his style of play, then well, you have to have another sense back in the squad. So who are you going to have? You know, you're not going to have Gatti, you're not going to have Mancini, you're not going to have, I don't know who you're going to have, Casale, Romagnoli, these plays are ill-fitting as well. We don't have the option. So, you know, I think for that reason, he has to be in the squad. I wouldn't start in there. Gatti out for sure. Yes. Damián out. Yeah, for sure. Belanova in, but actually given a chance. Yeah, but again, he's not a fullback, is he?
01:26:09
Speaker
Until I see him playing as a fullback. Yeah, what's the but then those are Nor was all dodgy dodgy wasn't a fullback and he and he managed to it Yeah dodgy is different because he's shown that he can play as a fullback. Yeah and ah to We need Bella Nova to join ah back a team and play the place back for basically improve himself. Yeah, and then we can have him in mancini Look, I think John Luca mancini in a back for I like John Luca mancini in the back three um but I want to see what he can, if De Rossi is going to play with the back four, which it seems like he is, I want to see Mancini to the right of that. So I want to wait before I say anything. I want to wait because I think Mancini has grown. I think he has improved. I think he's matured. I want to wait and see. That's what I want to do. I want to wait and see. Yeah. Okay. Uh, Bastoni in Cambiasso in, I think we'll agree there.
01:27:04
Speaker
um for rattezi This is an interesting one, I'm not sure on this one. I think Fratese can be part of the squad because what he does do, if you remember Simone Perota, no other comparisons between them, but he was a similar style of player in the sense that he would is very dynamic and made runs from deep and that really really worked for Spalletti. So I think Fratese is useful to Spalletti. if as a rotation player coming in off the bench when he's chasing a goal and he needs runs from deep. But if he's going to use Davide Fratese in the build up phase, hell no.
01:27:38
Speaker
Yeah, I would say at most for Atezi, a squad player that can come on, I just can't trust him even to start in any type of system. If you can't, if your past success rate is 50%, I don't know. Well, that's what I mean. It's just not, I don't care whether you're in the build up or whether you're further up the build. No, no, I don't want him there. I just can't, you just can't, that's just not doable at all. Giorgino, I think we agree, he's going to be, he'll be 34 by the, or 34th, almost pushing on 35, so he will be too well. Thank you. great chris That might be the last time he's he's played for Italy. Renzo Pellegrini. In, I still believe that a midfield trio with him to the left as a Metzala works. I absolutely believe that. I would keep him around, um maybe not as a starter, but he'll be 30 at the next tournament, maybe keep him around for one more. Christante has to be out. Oh my God. Catapult him into the sun.
01:28:32
Speaker
butla Barella in. Fagioli, I would have in as well. Me too. And Fodorun show. I mean, let's see how he does it. a Napoli. Let's see how he does it. Napoli. I don't want to say definitely out because we i mean we didn't really see much of him. The attack now, Skamaka, I think, has to be in. We have to give him another chance. and We need to see more from him. Raspadori. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But the question is, does he work in a 4-3-3? I'm not sure. Raspadori, question mark for me. I mean, again, we have to look be realistic with the options. Kiesa. No.
01:29:08
Speaker
um Unless he he he... You knew something magical happens and he starts... performing at somewhat acceptable levels? I would have Kiese in for now, but I would have him as a as a sub-player. Someone to bring on for like 20 minutes. Again, we got them to be realistic with our alternatives. We don't have anyone, but I think we need to find the different... We need to find we need to find some attackers, basically. And and and we can't we can't be starting with the same attackers that started in this tournament and expect different results because no because it's not going to happen. So I would keep Kiese right on, but but but as of now.
01:29:41
Speaker
as a backup. I don't know if you mentioned Calafiori, but we definitely. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Calafiori. Yeah. Goes without saying. But I think goes without saying. Yeah. Uh, let's agree. I think out has to be out. Yeah. No. Yeah. Just not, just not, not, not, not based on what we've seen. And and I think he was, you know, it just. Just too limited. He's just a box player. and ah can you yeah I want to say well done to him. I thought he did well with the scraps he did. and I think he should be in the squad if he delivers. He's 29 years old. He'll be 31 at the next tournament. I think he will be passing past his best then. So I'm going to say no. We need to think how old they're going to be at the next tournament. And elsewhere are we, definitely. and Out. Out, definitely.
01:30:19
Speaker
OK, so that's the players that are there. um In terms of players who didn't go to the Euros, who need to be part of the group going forward, I've got a list here. I'll read them out and then you just tell me if there's any you would ah you would add to or when you would disagree with. So Gregorio's third goalkeeper, as we said, Odorgi as one of the left-backs, I was making the left-back start actually going forward. Scalvini is one of the send-backs, assuming he recovers OK. Fingers crossed from the ACL. Tonali will be a pillar of the centre midfield. ah Huge, huge miss from it from this tournament. We said it at the time. I think we were doomed as soon as he was got as soon as he was ah ruled out of the tournament way back at the start of the season. I want him back in the city. ah Bring him back from for the Premier League.
01:31:00
Speaker
Locatelli brought back in the squad. I'm hoping that Thiago Motta can resurrect him and back in the squad, Locatelli. And then in the attack, again, we're really, really struggling for for attackers coming through. So there's not much we can do here, but I'm hoping, again, Nianto potentially, if he gets a move from Leeds from the championship and develops, at least he's the the that style of player that, you know, you're saying about what suits the Spelletti style. um I'm thinking that he is that that that kind of player. um Are there anyone, anybody else that you you would... I'm looking at youth. I really believe in Michael Coyote. I really, really believe in in him. I think he he has a huge future ahead of him and I think he could be the right, starting right back for Italy and back for for for a long, long time. You know my love for Samuel Ericci.
01:31:51
Speaker
that's not new Parisi I hope gets starts playing football properly now and and and you know I don't know what they're gonna do now because Parisi you know now that Paladinos talked about playing with a back three taking over at Fiorentina so either you play Parisi as a wingback. We know that he works as a fullback, but regardless, I want Parisi. I want Parisi in some place where he can play. I want Baldansi to start being reintegrated into Roma and playing regularly. Ruggieri, I think, has done really well at Atalanta.
01:32:27
Speaker
um No, I do, I look at that squad and I see, you know, Keo De Bastoni Calafiori Udoji Donaruma is a good place to start. Yeah, Keo De, I want to see him develop more technically, and but physically I think he's got the attributes they' definitely um to play the kind of Spelletti kind of, you know, and then i look at to bring more intensity, but I want to see him more technically. He's been a a little bit limited from what I've seen with him technically, but We'll see how it develops. And I look at the midfield, Barrella Tonali, Pellegrini, or Barrella Fagioli, Ricci. What would be a possible 11 at the 2026 World Cup? Donnarumma, if we're going to go with a 4-3-3 slash 4-2-3-1, which is, we know that's what Spelletti wants to play. No, we need to do that. We need to scrap all this nonsense. Donnarumma in goal, then if Bellanova can develop, Caio Del Bellanova at right back,
01:33:18
Speaker
ah dodgy at left-back, then the centre-backs, Califuri and Bastoni, but then Scalvini is kind of an alternative option as well there, hopefully. if you can you know And then the midfield, I think Barrera and Tonali, definitely to start. And then we kind of need to find a kind of a regista. We need someone we need someone to to emerge as a top regista. yeah and That's what we need. So we hope that maybe Fagioli Ritchie can develop. Or you can you can play, because Barela is a Toto Campista, you can play Tonali there, Barela is a Rigista and you have Tonali in Pellegrini. I mean, you've got options. I'm not worried about this. The attack is going to be the problem again. And right now we basically we we need we basically need players to emerge. Players that we haven't mentioned, players that are not ah not there yet.
01:34:02
Speaker
um Nionto, I still want to hold on to some hope for Nionto, but it really develops on where he needs to join a team that plays a 4-3-3. Yeah, and leave the championship. Yes. and So again, that's cut and it straws a little bit. I put Kiei's question mark again, that's because I'm just, um I'm looking at where are the alternatives like, this is the problem. And Skamaka, we're hoping that he can emerge. It might be, it probably is going to be too early for someone like Kamado, but again, you never know. You know, he absolutely destroyed the under 17 euros. He's way too good for that level. So why can't he move up to a senior? Well, what about, you can still play a 4-3-3 and you can invert maybe Pellegrini instead of on the left wing. Yeah. I think, listen, if we want to play, if we want to play the style of Spoletti, I just think we need, we need five players. Because if you've got all dodgy marauding up the wing,
01:34:53
Speaker
um You could kind of have Pellegrini. No, no, you could in a kind of way, the way that Insinia did it. Yeah. But I mean, I think that I think that we need quicker players. We need players with more pace and intensity. and I just don't think Pellegrini fits into that into that same reason for DiMarco doesn't like and they're just too slow. Both of them. I don't think that suits the press. if You try and win the ball up high and quickly. You can't have players like DiMarco and and these kind of players. So, yeah, but in the day, where are the players?
Optimism for Italy's Football Future
01:35:21
Speaker
That's the problem in the attack. Anyway, let's leave it at that. list i think Look, let me I just want to end by saying I'm not too negative moving to the future because again, I'm actually pretty bullish.
01:35:33
Speaker
I look at what happened, what how Italy is the you know performing at youth level, and um and I see some interesting players there, and I see some and i and i look at this lineup, and I finally see a hope for the back four, which we haven't seen for or the central defenders for the first time in ages. um I look at the midfield, I think it's fine. The the goalkeeper, there's no discussion. I'm worried about the attack behind Skamaka, Nyonto, Kiesa, like the the front three is an audition. We need, that's what Italy need, the front three. And there's now two full seasons, a lot can happen in those in those two seasons. But yeah, that that's where I'm more worried, more than anything is is those areas. But I'm not worried, I think that I think that'll be fine. I think the most important thing now is this, like I said, and I keep repeating it.
01:36:27
Speaker
Spalletti has to, if you're going to stick with him, which you've decided that you're going to, you have to give him the mandate to pick and build what he wants, how he wants, irrespective of who he excludes. Don't put pressure on him to call players that he doesn't believe in, that he doesn't think fits his system. That's it. That's all I want to see. yeah okay I agree with you there. I agree with you. Let's just finish off with Baggio, Prem Face, and Celia Ass of the Week. Baggio. Is there a Baggio? I think we have to go with Donnarumma. I do. i want to i want to I want to give a positive to someone, and this is more of Donnarumma. This is more of Baggio of the tournament for Italy. like
01:37:13
Speaker
He was so good. it like He was a monster. shot stop one of the great One of the great performances by a goalkeeper at an international tournament. That sounds crazy for a team that went out in the last 16, but he was so amazing. His shot stopping is unbelievable. And he's a giant. yeah like When he jumps, he looks he covers the whole damn goal. Zenga said he's made the goal look smaller. He really does. He got beaten by that first goal because he took a deflection off Manchí. He probably would have saved that one as well. Probably, yeah. but He's massive. He's huge. um but and and and And that's another thing. i
01:37:50
Speaker
Spaletti can't expect him to be like, cause he's not good with his feet. He's not going to change. And I don't care. Spaletti needs to find another way to build from the back. That was a total non-bat to in this tournament. No, wasn't it? Like it didn't map make any difference in this tournament. I mean, yeah, but I'm just saying none of our defenders could pass the ball two
Controversial Opinions and Cultural Sensitivity in Football Media
01:38:07
Speaker
yards. A lot when we were trying to build out when it wasn't, you know, it was horrendous against Switzerland. Trying to build out from the back. It was unbelievable. Unbelievable. Um, Zacangi's goal as well. Yeah, I mean, we had him for last week, didn't we? At least it gave us one great moment from the tournament. Prem face of the week. um I've got a few here. So Rory the Tory has been on a rampage this this week. Rory the Tory said that all Italians and Spanish people will agree that Ashley Cole is the best left back of all time.
01:38:39
Speaker
He's in, he, I, is he, like, is he, does he suffer from something? Like, what, what is he, is he, because he says it was such a conviction. This is a big week February as well, you know, it's the, it's the election in, in general election in, in, in England. It's a big week. He's going for idiot of, you know, minister of stupidity. But it wasn't, it wasn't the only one. He also, they were also talking about who's the greatest Italian player of all time. And he's like, Gianfranco Zola. ah get that it was He's such an idiot. um He also said that PLO was overrated as well. but they also said that he He also said that Erling Horland wouldn't succeed in the Premier League. He just talked that flu nonsense.
01:39:26
Speaker
um Who is this guy? I'm sorry, but who is he? Who is this guy? why is he even like Wasn't he like some third rate soap star that decided to use his fame to talk about football? I think no he was in EastEnders for like like half an episode once. Yeah, well that's what I'm saying. Third rate soap star using his claim to fame in this to to to talk about football, a subject he's evidently not qualified to talk about. Like, it's it's it literally is this influencer culture that I despise and can't wait for end. But it literally, he he embodies that. Idiot, who's famous for being famous, has opinion. More at six. It's just... I mean, it's just... I love it. Finally, though, another prim face, although it was an American. ah The American journalist. Did you see the American journalist who asked Marcello Dielsa in the proper America?
01:40:27
Speaker
what he likes about McDonald's in a post-match press conference. It was so weird.
01:40:35
Speaker
He was like, first of all, what did you think of the performance of Darwin Nunes? And secondly, what is it that you like about McDonald's? It is so weird. And Bielsa was so confused. He was like, McDonald's? What is this? And the funny thing about McDonald's, about Bielsa, is that he just loved press conferences with him. I'm fascinated by Bielsa, I really am. um sir ass of no No, wait, there's more. there no um the Was it this week or last week, the Illichich thing? No, it was this week. It was during Slovenia versus England. yeah Lee Dixon, he should apologize for that because I think that was just because he knew about it too, didn't he?
01:41:20
Speaker
I've no idea. I've no idea if you knew about it. I mean, most of the pundits on on English TV, the ex-player pundits just just turn up with no research. They don't even do any research. they'd say i mean when enterprise didn't Yeah, I mean, when Illichich stepped onto that, I mean, well, Declan Rice knew about it. and And that's what one of my budgets of the week for what Declan Rice did, told Josep Illichich, you know, gave you know, give support on the people. He also called the um Calzona a board, see you next Thursday. Oh, did Lee Dixon do that? No, Declan Rice did.
01:41:59
Speaker
When did he called Kalzona at the end of the game? They had a, they had a bust up into the game. Yeah. Well, that's, that's fine. That happens either the moment. I'm talking, I'm talking about what he did to, um, that he came up to Illichich and, and, you know, gave him compliments for coming back from the severe depression and mental health issues that he's had. and Lee Dixon says, blind me, he looks older than me. I mean, it's just, you know, but Declan Rice knew about it. And I think that was a very, that was a close. He also asked him how to do some forward passes as well. it
01:42:29
Speaker
Declan sideways. And also one more prim face that bleacher report image. I'm sorry, but that is just... Oh, the spaghetti. What was it again? It was Giorginio. Oh, yeah. When Italy got knocked out, it was Giorginio with, ah for some reason, a bowl of spaghetti thrown on his head, being poured on his head. Like, I didn't even know Bleacher Report still existed. I don't even know. Yeah, that's because you're not 14 anymore. um Most people, I think it's only 13 or 14 year olds around Bleacher Report.
01:43:02
Speaker
But seriously, it's it's it was like that's borderline racism. nice It's just so tasteless. So um but because it's Italy, they get you get away with it, you know, anti Italian discriminations. OK, calm down. OK. It's anti-Italian. It was just tasteless by the way. Well, you said to yourself that's borderline racist. Yeah, it's borderline racist. Yes. And that's the point I'm making, that it's acceptable to be racist or discriminatory against Italians. that's what I mean, it's well known now. It's just it's accept not acceptable. Well, it is acceptable because if this was any this happened anywhere else, that there would be there would be repercussions to that to the to to who did it, and you know, to bleach your report, you know, and it's just just brushed off, as lot as fine it's fine. These tired old racial ethnic stereotypes is just, it's so boring. yeah It really is. And it's like, you know that whoever did that thought he was really clever too.
01:44:00
Speaker
and And it's like, I was actually, you know, if I was thinking of creating an image of Declan Rice having, if next time England are knocked out, you know, not in this tournament, but next tournament or whatever, next time England, or I was thinking of doing an image of Declan Rice having what the English called quote unquote food, what we call dog food in the rest of the world, poured on his head. Fish and chips. Well, ah poured on his head. and and and and then post that on Twitter and say, you're going youre you're you it's not going home, you're going home. But i didn't want I was thinking of doing that, but then I thought if I do that, I'll probably have my account suspended for posting graphic images on Twitter because
01:44:41
Speaker
Well, again, what the British or the English refer to as food, the rest of the world refers to as... You kicked off over the food, not for the... No, but I mean, so I mean, you know, I'd rather have spaghetti thrown on my head than whatever, you know, baked beans or whatever, black pudding or whatever else it is, whatever else that they consume over there. Just remember to eat the spaghetti with a knife and fork. That's what I'll say. And catch up. Right, listen, let's set it as of the week, Nima. Politano. I mean, what is he doing? What is he doing? but um the Did you see the Instagram post? Yes. and This guy thinks, I mean, if Alexis Sanchez thinks, doesn't live in reality, thinking he's some sort of top player still. Politano seems to think he's like, I don't know, Maradona or something. but he has he has some He has some beef, doesn't he? with with
01:45:35
Speaker
No but they've they've always had the beef but that that that that emoji of him shrugging his so shoulders that as if he could have changed. ah Dude, yeah no. but I've gone for Juventus as well, they did an on this day post and they had Carlos Tevez signing in 2017 so they got the year wrong by by four years.
01:46:01
Speaker
You're actually one of the better at kind of not making stupid factual mistakes. They're one of the better. They're one of the better serial count. Oh, also Monza as well. but Although I mean, I thought that was funny people found that bit funny. I thought that was funny. Although I think it's ridiculous that that was the goal of the year, the goal of the season, because DiMarco from the halfway line, I don't care if he meant it or not. It's the goal of the season. Simple as that. yeah But, you know, it is what it is. um But no, I thought that was pretty funny. yeah that That was like, you put you know, a current pop culture reference that actually worked. Yeah. Yeah.
01:46:40
Speaker
ah like two a Right, let's leave it at that. Thanks everybody for listening. A longer episode for you today because there was a lot to to ah tu the to talk about. Let's hope that things get better for Italy ah going forward. um We'll leave it at that. We're back on Tuesday for the Q and&A. We'll have some more content later in the week. Until then, ciao ciao.