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Juve Crowned Champions, The Relegation and Champions League Races, and Torino (Ep. 11)
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The Serie A Show's Chloe Beresford, John Solano, and Nima Tavalley review Juve's eight consecutive Scudetto, the relegation and Champions League races, and the impressive season of Torino and Walter Mazzarri.
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Transcript
Opening & Personal Updates
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Seria show. Hello everybody, we are back. We are back. It is another episode of the Seria show.
Juventus: Victories and Challenges
00:00:22
Speaker
After a week off, we have returned. Everybody, how are we doing?
00:00:27
Speaker
I'm good. Thank you. I'm good. I'm good. I mean, Chloe are good, but, you know, how are you, John? I mean, you know, congratulations. The Solano clan has grown by another member. So, yeah. So for all the abusive tweets you sent to Chloe and Nima for us not doing an episode last week, I thank them for taking the bullets. It was actually my fault. My wife and I, we welcomed our third child, his son, Antonio.
00:00:56
Speaker
And we're very happy, but very tired. So that is why we missed last week. I was overwhelmed with the lack of sleep, but we are back. I'm energized. I'm excited. There's a lot happening. My goodness. I mean, we come back. We have another Juve Scudetto. We have this race for the Champions League, Nima's favorite, the relegation race. I mean, there's a ton going on.
00:01:24
Speaker
Let's start no further. Juventus, once again, for the eighth consecutive season, are Crown Serie A champions. And as a Roma supporter, when I go on Twitter and I see some of these Umatini, just, eh, okay.
00:01:42
Speaker
I want to rip my hair out, Chloe. This is a spectacular achievement. I mean, maybe the way they flamed out in Europe has a lot to do with that. But I mean, this is still an incredible achievement. Yeah, it's completely amazing. And they
00:02:04
Speaker
I think the mood was down from the Champions League exit and that was the problem. And I guess for people who've not supported UVA for a long period of time, that's all they've ever known. They've not known anything else. And it was just like, yeah, it's Tuesday. We won the Scudetto. Yeah, let's move on. But to teams such as Roma, Inter, Fiorentina, the teams that we all support,
00:02:34
Speaker
Escudetto would be completely incredible and it is something that needs to be celebrated, otherwise it makes a mockery of the league. I understand that it's hard to perhaps get back up after that Champions League disappointment, but it really was a fantastic achievement. Even though they didn't play particularly well at times this season,
00:03:00
Speaker
I saw Nima tweet, you've just got to take your hat off to them. They've on and off the pitch. They've been head and shoulders above everybody else in Serie A for the last eight years, and that is completely unprecedented. No, it really is. I mean, sure.
00:03:19
Speaker
I mean, we've got to kind of unpack a little thing, a couple of things here. Sure, winning the Scudetto eight years in a row is simply sensational. It's never happened before. It probably never happened again. And the way that you have done it, the way they've built themselves up from 2006 when they were relegated in the Calcho police scandal and everything that happened there, and then go from that to getting your new stadium and
00:03:49
Speaker
getting their own stadium that they own and then you know Antonio Conte coming in because I mean you have to remember the first two seasons under Marotta and Paparazzi were pretty disastrous you know you had you know you had Del Neri you had I think you know Ranieri was there, Del Neri was there, Ferrara flopped and then you know they got it right with Antonio Conte and they laid down the foundations for for this Juve and then Allegri you know and then
00:04:18
Speaker
content quitting the way he did, you know, really, really serious, you know, putting you on the spot, they replace him with a, with a, with a very heavily criticizing quit and doubted Massimo Allegri, Max Allegri, who comes on and, and has blown away. I mean, four doubles in a row. This is the first season that they haven't won the double in four, in five years, which is truly amazing. And, and two champions league finals on that. Now, obviously,
00:04:48
Speaker
there is no doubt about it then that's the positive side but on the other hand there's also the side that
00:04:53
Speaker
they did not spend 100 million euros on Cristiano Ronaldo and give Kaldara to Milan to bring Bonucci back in order to win the Scudetto. They wanted to win the Champions League, there's no doubt about this. This was what they said outwards and they failed. They failed pretty miserably against Ajax after coming back from
00:05:19
Speaker
you know I gave giving the best performance you have done all season I guess that let's go Madrid completely just destroying a political Madrid in that second leg and being and I thought in the first thing is that I say they they seemed in control they seem to be in top on top of things and then they just completely you know I like you looked gobsmacked and the team looked completely unable to react to to how how
00:05:48
Speaker
how Ajax played. So that's where that disappointment comes from, and obviously that coming from immediately after the Fiorentina game coming immediately after the Ajax knockout. That's why I put a little damper on things, but at the end of the day, eight squaretos in a row. And to be honest with you, I don't see that ending any time soon.
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't see it ending any time soon either. I would think most reasonable people don't. One thing I did want to get to though, I mean, following the elimination against Ajax, the hot topic
00:06:31
Speaker
so to speak, was the future of Allegri. I'm curious as to what you two think that should be. Obviously he came out after, Juve came out after, and immediately said he's going to return to the bench. But I saw a lot of Juve supporters saying, you know, he's got to go, we got to take the next step. It's time for us to find a better manager for the Champions League. I'm curious as to what you two think about that because
00:06:58
Speaker
I really don't know who you could get beyond him. I truly don't. I think that's the issue, to be honest. Now that Zidane has gone to Real Madrid, who else would you get?
00:07:15
Speaker
Yes, there have been quite a few mistakes from Allegro this season and some bad ones, but perhaps in the last five seasons, he's earned the right to have one more crack at it with Cristiano Ronaldo in the side. I think it's hard because
00:07:36
Speaker
He just cannot keep repeating those same mistakes again and again. He can't keep choosing these more conservative players and keeping his more dynamic players.
00:07:47
Speaker
on the bench because he was completely embarrassed and shown up by Ajax. And this was no surprise because a team that are just like Ajax, Atalanta, were the ones that knocked them out of the Coppa Italia. And why in a second leg you are not prepared for that when you've played them already once is completely ridiculous.
00:08:09
Speaker
But I think he perhaps has enough credit in the bank just to have one more go at it. And then maybe after that maybe Keilin is getting old and you know maybe they're new if they need to rebuild completely and have an entirely new project with a new man in charge but I don't know.
00:08:26
Speaker
What do you think? I think bank, using that word, has got everything to do with the reason that Allegri is staying. And that is simply because the Juventus cannot afford to sack Allegri. He's got one year left on his contract, and I think he will see that through. I don't see them giving him an extension. And the reason for that is because, well, you have a Higuain problem that Juventus have created all on their own.
00:08:55
Speaker
Well, he turned into a problem when they signed Cristiano Ronaldo, because if Chelsea don't redeem Gonzalo Higuain, Juve are in a world of trouble, because they have to balance the books, and they'll have to sell one of their bigger players, like a Di Bala or someone like that, and that is something they absolutely, under no circumstances, want to do.
00:09:23
Speaker
And so I think he will stay for that reason. Or if they sack him, I think it will be a situation where it's a mutual termination kind of situation where
00:09:35
Speaker
where Alegu is already sure of his next job and therefore he'll agree the terms with Juve and he'll swiftly move over to his next job and that won't cost Juve anything. As to who they would replace him with, I think if there ever was a time to take Antonio Conte back it would be now. Because this was the Juve, this cycle was the cycle he started.
00:10:04
Speaker
Marotta was the one he had problems with, the famous quote, you can't go to a 100 euro restaurant with only 10 euros in your pocket. That Antonio Conte said, Marotta is a frugal spender, he was the reason why they didn't spend like that. Now Marotta is no longer there and it's clear that that is no longer an issue.
00:10:27
Speaker
if you can bring in Antonio Conte into that, why not? I don't see why they couldn't do that. I think he would, I think Conte is clever enough to understand the club, the club know him. Anieli and him have already forgiven each other and they kind of made that very public as well. So I think that, you know, Antonio Conte would be
00:10:53
Speaker
would be the ideal solution. And having said that, I think the ideal solution for Inter would be to take Max Allegri. I think he's exactly what Inter need after the insanity of Luciano Spalletti for the past three seasons.
00:11:08
Speaker
We have to, following their elimination at the hands of IX, I'm curious as to hear your two opinions and suggestions as to how they improve. I think we're all going to point to the same area of the pitch as to where they need to improve, which is the midfield, which I think is obvious.
00:11:30
Speaker
Who do you bring in? Who do you sell? I mean, there's also, and I feel like this has sort of been somewhat of a talking point, but maybe not to the degree that it should be. Dybala has been horrific this season, and even that is putting it lightly. And Allegri's got a problem.
00:11:51
Speaker
with playing him out of position, he's too good and has too much quality to keep on the bench. So, Chloe, what are your suggestions? How do they get better? Obviously, I think we all agree it's in the midfield, but what other tweaks do they need to make? Who do they need to bring in? Who needs to go? What do you think?
00:12:11
Speaker
I think they could certainly afford to get rid of DiBala. Obviously, we know he's a quality player. I'm not doubting that for a second. But I think if Allegri stays, I think it's clear that pressing ahead with trying to play DiBala is just not working. And they could get a really decent sum of money for him if they let him go elsewhere, which could then be used to
00:12:39
Speaker
improve the midfield perhaps where they do need so desperately some new players because, you know, time and time again, they've been undone by how slow they are with all the same pace to players with, oh, Kadira is the worst example. But
00:12:59
Speaker
But with Pjanic, Chan and Matuidi, you know, they're all good players individually, but as a unit, they are very, very slow. So they need, I think, obviously, Milinkovic Savage would be an ideal addition to the squad because he provides the pace, he's good quality, he's strong, he can run box to box, he's
00:13:21
Speaker
here's everything that U of A need right now. I think they need to get rid of Dragani because against Fiorentina again, he was just awful. So they need to get rid of him and bring in a better central defender. I think I've heard one or two rumors about man or less. No comment.
00:13:45
Speaker
But the thing is, to me, to me, that is where they lost it. You don't send Benatiyah away in January and think that Daniele Rugani will act as cover because, you know, it's like this notion of it's like.
00:13:59
Speaker
Inter fans have this mental hiccup with Rannocha and D'Ambrosio and Juve fans have it with Rugani. These are not world-class players, nor will they ever be world-class players. Get over it. Rugani is not good enough for a team.
00:14:17
Speaker
for taxes back up for a team that wants to win the champions league it's just that simple i'm sorry and then it's very evident and to sell ben at the end january i think that's where that's where you've lost the champions league in my opinion you know you do you know you need to have a solid defense that midfield i understand the criticism against the midfield regarding the pace and the dynamism of that midfield but that's not where my opinion where they lost it they lost it
00:14:41
Speaker
due to not having salinity at the back. Bartali is 155 years old. He's seen his prime. Rugani is not good enough. It's just that simple. And then you have Benatiyah, who clearly wasn't happy for staying on the bench. Fine, but you can rotate him into the team, the first team, so that he feels included.
00:15:01
Speaker
but whatever you do you don't just let him go and then think expect Rugani to resolve the issue again in the Champions League. That to me is a huge mistake and that's why that is a big reason why I think Juventus were knocked out of the Champions League. It's laughable that they would try and press on with Rugani in that way and I think Allegra has a lot to answer for with not making Bernatia feel like a valued member of the squad.
00:15:30
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. I think if you're going to criticize Allegri for something, it is that. It is that he seems to not have the ability off the pitch to include players that aren't doing too well or won't be guaranteed playing time to feel part of the project. I think the Dibala issue
00:15:51
Speaker
is a perfect example of that as well. I think Dibala has never been as good as he was, in my opinion, than he was during the first season with Allegri. But since then, when Juve decided to go for this kind of win-now strategy, it was clear that he needed to find a way for Cristiano and Dibala to co-exist.
00:16:14
Speaker
And for him to do that, you know, he needed to get that also to work off the pitch and to make Di Bala feel like he's been part of it. And he's been absolutely atrocious. And Di Bala is, in my opinion, one of the biggest talents out there. I mean, for me, a few seasons ago, if you'd asked me, I'd say this guy is, you know, after Ronaldo and Messi retired, this is the new superstar. But he's been unable to get Di Bala, to help Di Bala reach that level consistently. And especially since Ronaldo came.
00:16:43
Speaker
I mean, since Ronaldo arrived, Di Bala is murdered. I mean, you could say, Cristiano Ronaldo murdered Di Bala, but I think that's not true. I think it's Allegri's way of handling the situation that has killed Di Bala. And I wonder, in that sense, in that regard, Juve and Inter are a little bit in the same
00:17:04
Speaker
situation because if if if Alegri stays I think Dubala will leave and the same thing with the Atinta I think if if Spalletti stays there's no doubt Spalletti if Spalletti stays there's no doubt Icardi will leave so they have to make a little you know they have to weigh things here and it's a really important decision both clubs have to make you know either you stick by you know obviously from different they've coming in from different positions
Serie A Top Four Race
00:17:28
Speaker
but you have to um you know you know they're coming in from different angles and different positions but
00:17:35
Speaker
pretty much the same decision. Do you stay by the coach that maybe has taken you as far as he can or do you stay, you know, build around your superstar?
00:17:46
Speaker
I have something to say about the performance against Fiorentina. I think that was Juve's season in a nutshell because Mantella have really got Fiorentina improved. He's actually put some midfield structure in there and it's given them a platform to attack from and in that first half they were just
00:18:10
Speaker
pouring forward they were just they were just they looked like unstoppable and Juve were really really on the ropes and obviously Fiorentina took an early lead 1-0 and they just they just looked dreadful but then obviously they managed to turn it around and they got the 2-1 win and they won the Scudetto but I think that was a real example of how Juve just
00:18:40
Speaker
they just won regardless of everything else. And everybody would look at that score line, Juventus 2 for Argentina 1, and you think, oh yeah, you know, standard day at the office kind of thing. And it really wasn't. But that's kind of how UVA have been all season, I think. They've got this huge lead in the table and they're so far ahead, but they're not really impressed in the way that they've played or they've not really looked convincing consistently throughout the season.
00:19:11
Speaker
While the Scudetto is decided, what is not decided is Champions League places. And once again, it is a weekend of who is not better than the other, it is who is less incompetent than the other. Because neither Roma
00:19:32
Speaker
Milan Lazio decided to win. What happened was Milan decided to drop points against Parma. Roma decided not to score another goal, even though I thought Mima is going to disagree. I thought that
00:19:53
Speaker
I thought they had the better quality of chances, but we'll get into that in a minute. Roma decided not to be Inter. And then, do we even need to go into what Lazio did? I mean, do we even have to discuss what they did? And I, listen, I'm not saying this because I'm a Roma supporter. I watched that entire match. That was, first off, Kievo is well known for their shit-housing. They've been known for it for a decade.
00:20:21
Speaker
So I wasn't surprised as to the approach they took. But oh my god, Rolaccio, just horrific would be a compliment. That was embarrassing. I mean, they completely what happened. I mean, I watched that game too. And in my opinion, what that game was lost the second. So gave me link of its savage decided to do a
00:20:44
Speaker
to mistake the pitch, the green grass of the Olympics for an octagon and do a drop kick in the side of whoever the KFL player was. That was the most straight red card I think I've ever seen all season. And he's lucky he only got one match suspension for that. For me, that was at least two, three games.
00:21:04
Speaker
But probably Simone's moaning has probably paid off for something because that was insane. He just kicked the guy in his stomach. It was absolutely crazy. And after that, it was complete freefall. And they looked shaky. They looked nervous. They looked out of shape. They lost their shape. No, it was crazy. And then
00:21:28
Speaker
And Kievo started to do exactly like you said, what Kievo have done for the past 10 seasons. They remembered that they were Kievo and how they've managed to avoid the relegation for the past decade. And they were just the classical Kievo that have driven teams up insane for such a long time.
00:21:49
Speaker
And they were really, really good. They had a... They were Kievo at their best. It was peak Kievo we get to see. And they frustrated the hell out of Lazio, who, although having a lot of the ball and chances, they just completely were unable to score. And Lazio looked shaken. They didn't seem like a team imbalance. So...
00:22:16
Speaker
I don't know it was I mean this this is insane you know place four to eight are are separated by three point or four points now three points is it even yeah 53 to 56 three points from Torino in eight uh it's it's um Torino in eight has uh has has got 53 points and Milan in fourth have 56
00:22:39
Speaker
um you know it's crazy uh this this is uh you know sorry it's Laziora eight 52 to 50 yeah 52 points Milan 56 that's four points from fourth to eighth and you know if you look at the the the the remainder of those fixtures on that list i i actually give give the advantage to Roma i think they have the one they're the ones who look to be kind of in more working themselves into form
00:23:06
Speaker
and also have an easier fixture list. So I give the advantage to Roma. Niemar in-house mathematician with some quality. Yeah, no, I didn't have a list in front of me. Yeah, sorry. You had my mind racing too. But Chloe, I thought the biggest shock of this entire weekend was yesterday with Atalanta somehow nabbing a victory off Napoli at the San Paolo.
00:23:34
Speaker
Well, I think the one thing we can rely on Atalanta for is just to keep surprising us. Every time you think, you know, although they won't be Napoli and they go and do it. And now they're on 56 points, the same as Milan. And, you know, you just think they couldn't, could they? They sure they couldn't.
00:24:00
Speaker
They do keep surprising. And I just think they've got this whole attitude of, we don't care. We're just going to do our thing and we're going to throw everything at it. And they've got these crazy fans behind them. And, you know, considering the size of the club compared to the very near neighbours, the two Milan sides,
00:24:26
Speaker
It is crazy to think that they could reach the Champions League, but they actually could. And win the Copa Italia. Well, yeah, obviously. That's to be cited tomorrow night.
00:24:42
Speaker
Going back to Lazio, I think, you know, Simonian Zaghi has shown some flashes of good coaching and he's pulled off some good results this season. But I think it's the same thing that is with the same problem that Spelletti has, that when you have this tendency to moan and be negative,
00:25:08
Speaker
you cannot achieve the consistency of results that is necessary. You're always going to have this roller coaster ride and the peaks and troughs. And I think to be stable, like Claudio Ranieri, you know, he's brought some stability now to Roma.
00:25:27
Speaker
that you have to have a more positive approach and I just think that is the problem with Inzaghi all over. He's got the tools, he's got the skills to be a good coach but his mindset is holding him back. I mean you said earlier that the Juventus game against Fiorentina was a nut, it was like the perfect season in a nutshell. To me that Napoli Atalanta game was a nutshell, was Napoli's season in a nutshell because
00:25:57
Speaker
I mean, all this season with Ancelotti, they've looked so good at times. They've looked so strong. They've, you know, they score one goal and then they completely roll teams out, but they cannot seem to finish games off. And you saw that against Atalanta. I mean, Napoli have no one to blame but themselves for losing that game. They gave away that game as far as I'm concerned. I don't know how many chances Milic and Mertens need.
00:26:24
Speaker
It's clear that Mertens, Kaichon are a bit over the hill and that Arek Millik is simply not good enough to be a starting player at Napoli. He's a good squad rotation player, but he's not good enough for an Napoli who aims to be the anti-Uwe and has been aiming to be the anti-Uwe of the past few seasons.
00:26:52
Speaker
It reminds me a bit of Jeko. It can be really good some days and then also the next day. Yeah, he's a poor man's Jeko, exactly. I think that is a brilliant description of him.
00:27:08
Speaker
And I think Ancelotti, I think it's very clear to see that this season that Ancelotti has done exactly what can be expected of him with the material he has at his disposal. I think he could have done better in some parts, but I think that squad is really, really good. But it needs tweaking. They need a striker next to Insimia. If he's going to play that 4-4-2, they have the wingers for it. They have the central midfielders covered.
00:27:35
Speaker
But they need to sort out their defense. They need to find someone to, I mean, Chiriches is not good enough. Chiriches, or whatever, how you pronounce his name, is simply not good enough. Milik is not good enough to be a starter. And in my opinion, they have one of the best registas in Italy sitting there on the bench rotting in Diabara. Will he stay?
00:28:00
Speaker
they have some questions they need to answer as well, and also I think this, before the season, this three goalkeeper, Karmelis, Merez and Ospina, having three goalkeepers that were basically of equal quality,
00:28:16
Speaker
was a sign of strength but that's I think that's turned out to be kind of a weakness because the you know not having a first you know an out you know an outspoken first goalkeeper has hurt Napoli at times I mean Merec this week Ospina the next Carnes is the third I mean it just doesn't make any sense so I think they need to they need some clarity in that project and I think if Ancelotti is to be able to win and repeat what
00:28:46
Speaker
well, Capello did at Roma, which I think is his greatest feat as manager. And I think that Ancelotti, you know, has what it takes to do it, but he needs the tools to do it as well. And that that fight, therefore, I think they they need to sort themselves out in Napoli this summer, because otherwise,
00:29:05
Speaker
It could, it could, it doesn't, I'm starting to get worried. I'm not really yet worried for Napoli, but if they don't sort themselves out this summer, it could be a long and difficult season ahead.
AC Milan's Challenges
00:29:16
Speaker
So as, I forget which of you mentioned it, one of you mentioned the easier, that Aroma do have sort of the easier run in.
00:29:25
Speaker
It is interesting that each of these teams has these varying degrees of difficulty for their remaining calendars. Milan, obviously, they have the Copa Italia. Then, on Sunday, they play Torino, which is a massive, massive, massive, massive fixture that Bologna, Fiorentina, Frosinone, and then Spal, Roma. This weekend, they are at home against Calieri.
00:29:53
Speaker
And then they're also at the face, Genoa way, Juve, Sasuolo, Parma.
00:30:00
Speaker
At the Lanta, I really don't know what the make of them. Obviously, they got the good result, but they have a very difficult schedule as well. They have Utanense, away to Lazio, home to Genoa, away to Juve, home to Sasuolo. So, the way this is shaping up is very, very, very interesting. So, Nima, I want to, while we're sort of on this topic for the top four, I wanted to get your opinion on the draw between the Romainito at the weekend.
00:30:30
Speaker
What a weird, weird fixture that was. Very weird. You just looked at the statistics. You would have thought Inter would have pumped Roma, especially if you looked at the possession statistic. My God. It's insane. I believe it was 75-25 at one point. It really was. Close to 80-20. Yeah.
00:30:48
Speaker
So it was very, very odd. But then again, as I said earlier, I do think Roma, just in terms of quality, had the better opportunities, particularly at the end. My God, I don't know what the hell Kolarov was doing, looked like he was looking for the penalty. But what did you make of that match? Because I was very surprised at the approach Spaletti took. I thought,
00:31:16
Speaker
I thought just not trying to cut Roma through between the lines, instead of just playing on the flanks, I thought they sort of played right into Roma's hands, even though they got a goal picking on Florenzi, who I don't even want to talk about anymore. Yeah, no.
00:31:34
Speaker
I mean for me it was as soon as I saw you know during the week that Vasino was going to play in that deeper midfield position where he should not be allowed to play by law. I'm sure Chloe has some very strong thoughts. I mean he is not a deep... I mean the thing with him is he's very dynamic and as we said before he can play in a false 10 position because his movement and his dynamism
00:32:01
Speaker
gets himself into good positions and he can you know he does good he actually has fills a role there he pulls a shift but when he but when you play him in that deep midfield position and then you have Raja Naingolan who looked hungover again you know you're playing with two men short there already because they you know because Vicino does not know
00:32:24
Speaker
He's not good enough when it comes to his positioning to play in a deeper role in a double pivot role It just simply doesn't work and it's not been working for two years now and you think that You know, I tweeted it out that you think that he'd understand that Spalletti but I think You know what Spalletti's problem is is it's not just that he's the negative. I don't think it's the negativity I think it's the it's the it's the
00:32:53
Speaker
It's the stubbornness that is reaching a point of you know
00:32:59
Speaker
It's almost psychotic behavior from him now. It's like he's pushing a square pig in a round hole and he's going to make it work. No matter all the evidence to the contrary, whether it be empirical evidence through trial and error or just by sheer factor of being conscious and having eyes, he just doesn't get it. And when he's decided that he's going to do something,
00:33:29
Speaker
come hell or high water, he just does it. I wouldn't say lucky, but I'd say that InterSquad is too good and has saved him this season when he's been full on Spalletti. We saw that against Roma as well.
00:33:50
Speaker
the way he played right into Roma's hands and then kept pushing and pushing and pushing and finally Roma took advantage of playing on that down that far Roma's right side of defense where Florencia isn't good enough and we're able to score but other than that I think I mean just this notion that you bench Icardi and play Lautauro
00:34:18
Speaker
after Lautaro has been injured and not played for three, four weeks and start him. I like Lautaro and I think he should build around him because I think he's a brilliant player and I think he could be the next biggest thing. But I also think that in important games, when you have a player that's not match fit, that's coming from an injury,
00:34:36
Speaker
it's better to play the match fit guy who scored 123 goals for you before. It's stuff like that that drives me absolutely insane. It's the things that with playing Vasino in a deeper role, you clearly see that it's not working there. And it hasn't been working there for two years. It's stuff like that that just frustrates me to no end. And as you said, Roma
00:35:01
Speaker
had the better of the chances and you know Edin Jeko looked like he was playing for a contract with Inter because he was he gave the that was his best performer arguably his best performance of the season for Roma he was he was fantastic um I personally hope that Inter don't fall into that trap and and and you know if Roma said that they're not as you know Munchi famously said that Roma aren't the supermarket I'd prefer it after the Raja Naingolan
00:35:31
Speaker
fiasco that Inter doesn't, you know, relegate themselves to being some sort of a dumping ground for Roma for their overage players, because that's pretty much the danger we're seeing now. If Inter replace Maori Kari with Edin Jekko, I mean, what? And they expect to be the anti-Uwe, maybe in another galaxy far, far away, but not in this reality, because Edin Jekko isn't good enough.
00:35:57
Speaker
as we've already spoken and is inconsistent. And if your team is already suffering from that, you don't go and get a guy who's inconsistent and is 33. But no, but he did well against Inter, but Inter were
00:36:11
Speaker
Again, saved by moments of brilliance because the team has quality. It was a very bizarre match. We've been seeing these rumors about Jeko to Inter. To me, it makes no sense. It makes sense for Roma.
00:36:30
Speaker
Well, you know, you know that there's people I got to tell you I am still on the side of Jekyll I mean they paid 13 million euros for this guy. He's one of the most prolific goal sores in the in the club's history I would give him another season. I know I'm in the minority of that camp, but I Absolutely would I would ship
00:36:51
Speaker
Patrick Sheik out and I would find a replacement. But I think for a club of Roma size, I don't know who you replace him with that is within their financial means. I think it's incredibly difficult. Don't you get frustrated watching him though, John?
00:37:11
Speaker
Oh, hell yes. Yeah. Oh, without question, without question. Chloe, you talk about some of the attitudes of players, how sometimes they moan, and that is Jekyll. If things aren't going his way, he mopes around the pitch. Very, very, very moody. I think at times when he's supposed to be a leader, the Senetati, as we call them in Italy, of the dressing room, he drops his head. And I think it's incredibly frustrating.
00:37:39
Speaker
I mean, Roma, I mean, especially if they don't make the champions, like, I don't know how they're going to spend 40, 50 million euros for a guy to replace Jeko's goal output because this is his work. He's likely going to end with double digit goals this season. I believe he's at eight. That's going to be his worst season since his first, which was in and of itself a meme. It was a joke of a season.
00:38:05
Speaker
but I just think it's incredibly difficult to replace him and I truly don't know who would be a realistic replacement so I don't know. I just think it's an interesting conundrum that aroma have at their feet because it's truly
00:38:23
Speaker
there's risks with either decision they make. If they keep them, it's a risk. If they let them go, it's a risk. So I don't know. I guess you need a sporting director first before any decision like that is made. Yeah, right. Yeah. You would think that would be better in the smarter thing to do, but apparently sense and doing the right thing at Roma is a bit too much to ask at times. But when it comes to risk,
00:38:50
Speaker
One of the things we've been seeing is regarding Reno Gattuzo staying, going. It is interesting because I feel like within the last two weeks, I mean, since our last episode, I feel like the tide has really, really turned on him. Do you guys agree? I just feel like the mood surrounding him is very, very negative at the moment. And I feel like even if they do make Champions League, it sort of feels like the tone coming from Milanello is that they will make a change.
00:39:20
Speaker
Yeah, he seems to be really struggling somehow. He seems to be... they're still in force somehow, but he just can't seem to find the consistency of results. He's just...
00:39:35
Speaker
You can't seem to make the team play well. Even if they win, it seems to be a big struggle and a hard slog for him. Like we've said before, I think he's clearly got a limit to his abilities. But on the other hand, he has done a lot of really good and unexpected things that people just didn't think he could do. So it is a really hard one.
00:40:04
Speaker
I guess it depends how tonight goes. They play Lazio in the Copper Italia and how the race for the Champions League ends up.
00:40:15
Speaker
I mean, for me, I think it's an issue of can Milan afford or do they think that they can afford to let Gattuso learn on the job? Because it's pretty clear that he has developed and that he is a coach that knows how to adapt and knows how to grow with the task at hand, which he has done at Milan several, several times throughout this season and even the season before this one.
00:40:40
Speaker
The issue remains, can Milan afford to let him learn on the job? That's something that Maldini and Leonardo have to decide because
00:40:52
Speaker
I'm not so sure, because I think this season they've been handed an absolutely golden ticket to the Champions League, which I didn't think they would have, because I wasn't expecting Roma to implode the way Roma did. I did not think that the Montchi project would end in utter disaster the way it has. So they've been really handed a golden ticket here. This is a golden chance.
00:41:22
Speaker
You know, I've said at the end of the day, it depends on how it ends. If they finish fourth, if they get to the final of the Copa Italia and win that, how do you sack him? But having said that, if he doesn't get fourth and if he doesn't even get to the final of the Copa Italia, if he doesn't even win the Copa Italia,
00:41:41
Speaker
I don't you know I struggle to see how they keep him to be honest because this project needs to need some life in it and you know Gattuso for everything he's done for Milan both as a player and also since taking over as a coach Milan this is you know Milan needs to move on they need to build the new Milan and
00:42:04
Speaker
And I don't think that they can do that with Gattuso at the helm. But I mean, it depends. It depends. I mean, as I said, if he gets to the Champions League, I don't see how they can sack him. I guess in the long term, if he does get to the Champions League, it could end up holding them back. Like you say, Nima, they want to move forward and they want to recapture all ground.
00:42:27
Speaker
If he does win the Coppa Italia stroke, reaches the Champions League or both, that's surely ultimately going to hold them back because we've seen that he's things that he struggles with and he admits that himself. Yeah, he does. He's a very honest coach, isn't he? I like that about him.
00:42:48
Speaker
I like that a lot. Gattuso is pretty much the kind of person you'd expect him to be. There's none of this media savviness, there's none of this mind game stuff. He just blurts out exactly what everyone is seeing and that's pretty refreshing. He comes across really sincere and honest that way.
00:43:11
Speaker
which is, which I think is the reason which I think actually helps him a lot in his coaching as well. I think that's what the players respect a lot and listen to him for because he comes across as really, really sincere. Yeah, I agree. And their fixture this weekend really is, I mean, aside from their Copa Italia run. Torino. That is a real game.
00:43:35
Speaker
Yeah, so let's talk about that. Before we get into Nima's favorite of the relegation race before we end the episode, Torino Milan. Honestly, the fact that Mr. Katsari is even at this stage of the season is pretty, pretty astonishing. I think we said it a million times before on this podcast. I think
00:43:58
Speaker
This is the type of manager he is. This is his level. He can't go above this and he's way too good for any below this. He is a mid table manager and maybe he's like Gasparini in the sense that he can really, really, once he has his players, his system in place, he can really spur a club forward. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, they've been great this season.
00:44:19
Speaker
Finishing second with that Napoli side with Paolo Cannavaro in defense, with Arronica as their left wing, left wing back. I mean, you know...
00:44:31
Speaker
When he gets it right, he gets it right at these, you know, I don't want to say that Napoli is a medium-sized piazza, but back then they were. They were hardly the top four sides that they've since become, and that's why it was imperative for him to leave Napoli, for them to grow. Torino, you know, he's done absolutely brilliantly at that place, and it would be so... I mean, a part of me kind of likes the fact that he's
00:44:58
Speaker
I mean, likes his antipathy, likes the fact that he looks like a villain in a children's book, the fact that he behaves like a villain in a children's book as well, in a children's story book as well. I mean, part of me kind of likes that. And the fact that he plays the very definition of what people would say is anti-football, and the way he
European Competition Contenders
00:45:28
Speaker
frustrates his opponents to tears, to literal tears, by being so disciplined and by packing that midfield and by shrinking spaces. It's really, really impressive to see. And Mazzari at Torino has been simply sensational.
00:45:49
Speaker
And to be honest with you, I mean, but if you look at the games they've got left, you know, that's where it goes. Well, where I think this kind of all falls on its feet or face a little bit because, you know, they've got they got the touring Darby as well. They've got Milan. I don't expect them to beat Milan. I expect them to draw that game and frustrate Milan. I think they can win it. But I think that they they they in terms of how
00:46:18
Speaker
those two teams are matched in terms of Matsari's ability to neutralize Milan's attacking ability. I think they're very evenly matched. But I mean, they have Lazio at home in the last game, they have Milan at home next and they have Juventus away. I don't see them getting that. I don't see them, you know, I think they'll disappear after the Juventus match. But having said that,
00:46:46
Speaker
I mean, Roma have got Caliari Genoa, Juventus, Sossola and Parma left. Mila have got Torino, Bologna, Fiorentina, Frosinone and Spal. Lazzi have got Santoria, Atalanta, Caliari, Bologna and Torino. Again, for me, it's Roma. For me, this is a race between Atalanta and Roma.
00:47:06
Speaker
and Milan, with a big, big weighting, weighted towards Roma, because Atalanta, Udinez, fighting to avoid relegation, Lazio, Genoa, who are now in the relegation zone again, Juventus, those are difficult games. So I think this is basically match point Roma. Koli, who do you think makes it? I believe you said Milan on the last episode. Yeah, yeah.
00:47:34
Speaker
I don't know, it's really difficult because... Wouldn't it be absolutely delicious, from like an ironic point of view, if Milan's Champions League hopes were crushed away at Florence, would that be the definition of revenge? You know what I mean? Like, Montella crushes Milan's champions. I think Dream would love that, to be honest. I really do.
00:47:58
Speaker
oh oh my god talk about a story we talk about the seria being this this you know it's the stories in the seria that make it that would be a story to write really would so i think um malan fans really don't like montala um
00:48:15
Speaker
And in all honesty, I think that he has a bit of an unfair reputation from that because, you know, he did do a really good job with those young players in the first year and they did win a trophy with him and that's more than they can say from the last
00:48:34
Speaker
however many years it's been since the last one on. So I do think it's maybe a little bit unfair but they definitely don't like him so it should be interesting should Fiorentina be the ones to stop them from getting that champion. I agree with Uri Montela, I think he was really given a hard deal. I mean he did really well at Catania
00:48:56
Speaker
I mean the brief period he was at Roma was pretty successful as well and he did really well at Fiorentina. I think what happened, I mean coming in any coach that would have taken over at that period at Milan would have struggled. So I agree with you there.
00:49:11
Speaker
Yeah. And Chloe, correct me. Well, not correct me if I'm wrong, but you may disagree. But I think Fiona, Tina, while they may not be getting the results, I think they're playing infinitely better. I don't think it's even comparable. Oh, no. They're just like so much better. I mean, obviously, if you look at the results, like you say, it's a draw with Bologna and a defeat to Uve, which is disappointing. But if you actually watched those games,
00:49:40
Speaker
They've actually got a midfield now, which is like this, you know, it's really crazy. If you have a midfield, you've got a platform for the attack to build on. And it also protects the defence a little bit. It's like this new revolutionary idea. 35, 34 days into the season. Yeah, like, who knew? Who knew?
00:50:05
Speaker
I'm actually really looking forward to tomorrow night now because with the Copper Italia against Atalanta because I think obviously the 3-3 in Florence it was two teams who were just going at each other and Fiorentina conceded the three basically because
00:50:22
Speaker
Atalanta's players Illichich Papugomez just went straight through the midfield that wasn't there and managed to score. So I think it will be an interesting test now to see how much this revamped side under Montella can cope with Atalanta's relentless attacking and if having this midfield in place really is going to make a difference.
Relegation Battles
00:50:46
Speaker
It is interesting. And now to shift to Nima's favorite topic, the bottom of the barrel of Syria, the basement. It is an employee look like they are doomed because they are looking worse and worse. And I forget which of you said that bringing back Andre Itzoli, I think it might've been you, Chloe, might've been the wrong decision. Yeah.
00:51:13
Speaker
wrong decision. They do not look good at all. It's just, I do feel bad for them because there was a glimmer of hope there. But these last few match days have absolutely killed them. And the thing that's killed them is their defense is just getting torn apart. It's terrible.
00:51:34
Speaker
Yeah, and there's daylight now between them and Udinese. There's four points. So from it looking like it could be anybody that got that 18th spot, that last relegation place, it now looks pretty much like it's going to be Empoli. But we should note that Bologna play at home to Empoli this weekend. We should also know that... Yeah, true.
00:52:00
Speaker
It's over. Come on. This relegation battle this season has had so many ups and downs. You just wanted to carry on. I am absolutely loving this. I have never enjoyed a relegation season like ever as much as I do this because these teams are so, you know, I mean, they're so interesting. I think I've got a little bromance with Spaal because
00:52:23
Speaker
They the way they have handled this relegation race, you know winning the games they have Five out of five out of the six last ones and and just going at it and playing some damn good football beating Roma at home beating Lazio at home beating Juventus at home I mean, it's just and then and then away against Empoli. No, I'm just you know, I I have a little bromance with spa. I have to I have to admit that I'm really really
00:52:49
Speaker
I agree, I agree. I absolutely love Semplici. I just think he's learned so quickly about how to survive in Syria and he's just done an incredible job and they've been great. It's like this little underdog team who you're just rooting for all the time. Yeah, agreed. And it's really, really nice to see. And Petanya, I mean, Jesus, I mean, I think, you know, given the fact that
00:53:18
Speaker
Spal have a forced option to buy him, you know, if they, you know, if Atalanta don't make it to the Champions League, I think they will, they will be forced, you know, I think Zapata will definitely be gone because he's scoring over 20 goals. Then, then, you know, Petania would have been the most natural replacement. I mean, I'm not saying, you know, obviously they can, they can buy him back.
00:53:40
Speaker
for sure with the Zapata money. But still, it's not like Atalanta to sell good players to other poor teams. They usually cash in big on their big talents. Because Petanya has been great. I'm really impressed by him.
00:53:57
Speaker
And also we've got to say, speaking of the relegation battle, Bologna is exactly what we thought. The Bologna, the Mihailovic insanity, it works for teams down there. And he looks like five points down to Empoli.
00:54:15
Speaker
For me, a draw, you know, they're safe, let's say. I mean, Bologna are safe. Now it's down to Udinese to see how they react because, you know, next round, as we said, Empoli play a way to Bologna. Udinese play a way to Atalanta.
00:54:33
Speaker
Then Udinese have Inter at home, whilst Empoli have Fiorentina at home, and I expect Fiorentina to lose that match because of this, you know, I don't expect Fiorentina to go full on there because of, I think it's, you know, it's good for Fiorentina's interest to have Empoli in this area, also in terms of loaning players and stuff like that.
00:54:54
Speaker
So I don't expect the Fiorentina to win that game at all. Then you have the next round, you have Udinese away to Frosinone, whilst Empoli are away at Sampdoria. So this is going to go down to the wire. I think Udinese are really, really in a risk zone here. It is interesting because I don't know if this is sort of like the Champions League race where it's who is less shit than the rest because it's sort of what it feels like. Except Spal. We can't say Spal. Yeah.
00:55:24
Speaker
Listen, just the quality that sounds like Empoli have, I just feel like it's so, I mean, besides Ben Eser, Dragowski, maybe, I don't really know who they possess. Isn't that Traore guy who Fiorentina have already bought? Isn't it? Yeah, he is, yeah. And also, can I just say about Dragowski, he had that one good game,
00:55:54
Speaker
And all of a sudden they're now saying, you know, he's going to sign for Roma. God damn it. I knew you were going to bring this up.
00:56:11
Speaker
In fact, I have on my notes here that Agowski with a question mark. Let me erase that question mark. I knew you were going to bring that up. Okay, so let me just clarify because I this goddamn interview I did got picked up and I feel like people are blowing it out of proportion.
00:56:32
Speaker
Roma are looking at him, but is it in no way for a first-choice capacity? Let me be clear. In fact, Roma had a scout present at the match against Atalanta where he, yes, had the match of his life and that will probably never happen again because
00:56:51
Speaker
Atalanta had something like 30 or 40 shots. That will never happen. Their XG for that match was like 5.7 and they ended up with zero goals. So I don't know if we'll ever see anything like that again. But I did find, find it interesting because I, you can tell like when these agents, when I, when I, when I'm interviewing with them and talking with them, like when I say Roma, like they totally milk the subject.
Roma's Struggles and Monchi's Impact
00:57:17
Speaker
Like, no, pal Roma are not.
00:57:21
Speaker
going to bring him as a first choice player but it is it is it's worth mentioning that aroma I've looked at him and he was Chloe complimentary of Lafont and to me it wouldn't make zero sense for Fiorentino to hold on to him I mean no no no they need to sell him that Lafont needs a an experienced
00:57:48
Speaker
he needs an experience back up, we don't need another young goalkeeper and I have to say there was an occasion last season when Sportiello was sent off against Lazio and Dragowski was brought on in like the 10th minute or something and honestly it was the worst horror show
00:58:11
Speaker
Lazio ended up, Fiorentina were quite on top, attacking Wise, and Vertu got a hat-trick in that game, but they ended up losing 4-3, because Dragowski was just so bad. So when I saw the links with Romer, I was like, oh, do they realise that one performance is like a fluke?
00:58:35
Speaker
Oh, dear. Listen, after Robin Olsen, it's fool me one. Listen, I can't imagine that they're going to do this again. Surely not. I can't tell you. So Antonio Mirante, other than almost shipping two more goals because he spilled it against Inter, has actually looked pretty good. I feel like he's one of those...
00:59:03
Speaker
Well, I feel like he's one of those guys that he's brought to Roma, and he's sort of like a banter player, like people are having a go at him. But I feel like it wasn't too long ago when he was leading Panama. He was fantastic for Panama. I think he's a good goalkeeper. I think he's 36 now, so he's a good backup. But he's a good goalkeeper in his day. He was good. And I'm sitting here watching him actually do pretty well this last month or so.
00:59:33
Speaker
And through one match, one entire match, Inter Roma, I've gone through all five stages of grief because I've accepted the fact that Monchi completely dropped the ball with selling Ali Son and replacing him with Robin Olsen. I've cried. I've tried bargaining. Well, maybe he was good. Just I've gone through every single stage of grief with the Roma goalkeeper position and
01:00:02
Speaker
Whatever. I mean, I'm over the depression and I've accepted that that was just one of the worst moves I've ever seen in my entire life.
01:00:14
Speaker
I don't even know what to say about it anymore. It's just beyond poking fun out. It's just, yeah, he's shit. I mean, the way that that project completely capsized under Monchi is truly remarkable. I always knew that building a new project with the sporting director from another country, another footballing culture, was always going to have its challenges. But for it to go
01:00:43
Speaker
completely tits up to go pear-shaped the way it has with him being sacked slash resigning going back home between the tail between his legs and Roma not having a sporting director and a team that is just so wrongly built and wrongly calibrated and you've got no there's no balance in it and then you're talking about Acostas Manolas who was going to Juventus now because which I think is brilliant
01:01:13
Speaker
You don't think that? I think that would be a brilliant move for you. I mean, I don't think he'll go. Yeah, Roma have been shit this entire season, but I mean, what does it say about Milan? What does it say about these other teams that Roma could actually get in the Champions League now after without even
01:01:33
Speaker
I mean, other than this last month, they have been a nothing team since November. They've done nothing. Milan have missed a huge chance. Lazio have missed a huge chance. Atalanta have missed a huge chance.
01:01:48
Speaker
You know, I feel like this is one of those, you know, you've got to make sure they're dead before, you know, make sure the body isn't moving anymore before you declare them dead. Because if Roma do sneak into the Champions League, I will declare that a miracle beyond miracle. And it would be shit how three to the level of the team of Verona. Will you finally sing?
01:02:12
Speaker
I mean, they've been that bad.
01:02:21
Speaker
Chloe, my only concern is Fiorentina are not going to just give up, right? Because they need them to get a result. I don't think they will. I think that now with a new coach that they need to get that feel good factor flowing before next season. And I think that's their aim now, even though they're like in terms of the league, they're in no man's land. They can't go down, but they can't go anything else either. So now they're not going to give up, no way.
01:02:49
Speaker
Yeah, cuz Roma really really need them to do a favor because as Nima said I do think just in terms of pure calendar I think Roma have a massive massive advantage
01:03:01
Speaker
And it's just stunning to me that they're even in this position. It's just crazy because it's been without a doubt. It would have been so typical, wouldn't it? It's Uncle Claudio comes home and all is well, stabilizes the ship, brings his Roma to the fourth spot, which is what they needed to do after the chaos that's been. I mean, it's not really that surprising. It's what Ranieri does, isn't it? I mean, he comes in, he's a safe,
01:03:30
Speaker
he's a safe uncle character that comes in there with peace and calm serenity and studies the ship you know that's what he does yeah i mean it's particularly at the back i mean roma wore a horse show for six months until palalta decided to finally pull the plug i mean ranieri has at least brought a semblance of cohesion at the back they're compact
01:03:56
Speaker
It's very clear how they play. I mean, they shithouse, which, okay, I can live with. I mean, Nima, they were, they basically allowed Inter Vibol, especially that second half. I mean, Roma had no interest whatsoever in taking possession of that ball. And they're so much more organized.
01:04:20
Speaker
It's just astonishing to me that this wasn't done three months ago. I feel like had this been done, if they had just pulled the plug on Deef and Francesco at the proper time when it was evident it was not working, that they would be in a much better position that they're in now. And the more surprising thing and the bigger indictment for me
01:04:44
Speaker
is beyond those links for like five days to Fiorentina. I mean, you haven't seen Deef and Francesco linked to anybody. I mean, Genoa were on the, they were nearly going to Sacramento. You're singing the name again, Balladini coming back. I mean, you haven't seen Deef and Francesco's name come up for anything, which is such a massive indictment and says a lot in my opinion. It says everything.
01:05:13
Speaker
It says everything. It says that he was, you know, aside from a miracle against Barcelona, he didn't look happy. His team didn't look happy. No, it was pure misery around Roma. And the Roma, you know, before that, Andres Paletti was a team that scored goals, were stable defensively, that finished second even one season. I mean, it's been complete misery ever since that man took over at Roma.
01:05:40
Speaker
and then you have the munchy munchy on top of that year and a half later of just confusion and replacing Alice Mbekke with Robin Olsen as the perfect example of that and no it's not good for Roma at all and I'm surprised I mean there was always going to be a power vacuum and you know there was always going to be some reaction when Totti finally you know
01:06:06
Speaker
retired, but for it to be this shaky and for it to capsize this way, I didn't expect it. I really
Fiorentina's Potential and Conclusion
01:06:15
Speaker
didn't. I always thought that, you know, I mean, Monchi was like the hipster sporting director, wasn't he? I mean, everybody wanted Monchi.
01:06:22
Speaker
And it just went so wrong. It just goes to show that people listen. Real life is not like FIFA. You don't just buy a player and automatically expect it to work. These are humans. They have to function on and off the pitch. They have to work in the environment. They have to be happy in the environment and find their places in a group. And Monchi never really did that.
01:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was very odd. Just to end it here, Chloe, because I watched all of Juve Fiorentina at the weekend. We mentioned how much better they play with Montella. I wouldn't be shocked if they're the ones challenging for Champions League next season, especially if they have a proper summer, no? Yeah, well, I guess I haven't really thought about that because I've not really dared to.
01:07:14
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I guess so. I mean, they've got, they've massively underachieved really. They, they had a, you know, they've brought in these young players and built this young squad and, and I don't really think, um, I think Piola kind of reached his limit with it and he couldn't really take it any further. But you know, at the beginning of this season, everybody was talking about Fiorentina might be a surprise Champions League contender and you know, um, so I guess, I guess, yeah, it could well be, but.
01:07:45
Speaker
If they strengthen the midfield and if they can keep hold of some of the good young players we've got, then yeah, why not? So real quick, agree or disagree. I frankly don't think they need to do a lot on the market. Do you agree? I mean, I feel like they have a lot of pieces in place.
01:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, players like Federico Chiesa, obviously they've got to actually keep hold of them. But, you know, there is a really good striker. There is a really good striker hidden inside Giovanni Simeone, and I think Montela can bring that out. And yeah, I think we need a bit more quality in midfield. But apart from that, not really that much.
01:08:34
Speaker
All right, everyone, so that's where we're going to leave it. As always, thank you so much for listening. If you continue to rate, like, subscribe, share, all that good stuff, we really, really appreciate it. Your support means everything. Without you guys, this podcast is not possible. So we'll leave it there. And until next week, ciao.