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Jessica "JJ" Owens - Creating Your Own Daily Grails In Bespoke Jewelry
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Today’s guest is jewelry collector, JJ Owens. The founder of Daily Grail may be best known for her work in the watch industry, but her love for collecting jewelry predates all of that. In fact, for as long as she can remember, jewelry collecting has been a part of her childhood. I was eager to learn about the drastic differences between working with jewelry brands versus watch brands, and just how easy it is to get custom pieces made from designers. JJ is living proof that when it comes to collecting jewelry, there is no idea too big or too small, and some of the biggest names would be happy to execute it for you. Honestly, I find it hard to believe that you won’t feel even the slightest inkling to delve deeper into the world for jewelry collecting after listening to this episode. So without further adieu, my friend JJ Owens, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Daily Grail Official - https://www.dailygrailofficial.com/
Jessica "JJ" Owens Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jessicajjo/?hl=en
Daily Grail Official Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dailygrailofficial/?hl=en
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Transcript
Customization and Vintage Jewelry
00:00:00
Speaker
People like to kind of edit and change the piece and the brands were quite open to that back then is some of the pieces I've been shown just because I'm fortunate enough to be around people in the industry especially an antique and vintage. They've told me the most ridiculous stories about someone going in and saying well I want this to have more diamonds or I want this to be a different color and the brands back then would do it.
Introduction to Collector's Gene Radio
00:00:22
Speaker
What's going on everybody and welcome to collector's gene radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening and please enjoy today's guest on collector's gene radio.
00:00:47
Speaker
Today's guest is jewelry collector JJ Owens. The founder of Daily Grail may be best known for her work in the watch industry, but her love for collecting jewelry predates all of that. In fact, for as long as she can remember, jewelry collecting has been a part of her childhood. I was eager to learn about the drastic differences between working with jewelry brands versus watch brands and just how easy it is to get custom pieces made from designers.
00:01:09
Speaker
JJ is living proof that when it comes to collecting jewelry, there is no idea too big or too small, and some of the biggest names would be happy to execute it for you.
JJ Owens' Collecting Journey
00:01:18
Speaker
Honestly, I find it hard to believe that you won't feel even the slightest inkling to delve deeper into the world of jewelry collecting after listening to this episode. So without further ado, my friend JJ Owens for Collector's Dream Radio. JJ, welcome to Collector's Dream Radio.
00:01:34
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me, Cam. It's been a long time coming. Yep, no doubt. So a lot of people know you as one of the voices in the watch world, but today we're going to be talking about something slightly different, which is collecting jewelry. So what's the jewelry stack today?
00:01:49
Speaker
Today, so I have, let's start with the fingers and we'll work our way upward. I have a yellow diamond pinky ring that's a set east-west. Then I have a vintage Cartier cigar band that took me years and years to hunt down.
00:02:06
Speaker
Then on my wrist in terms of bracelets, I have a Lorraine Schwartz evil eye bracelet that I wear almost every day. A Carolina Buchi beaded bracelet with my initials on it. And then my watch is a Cartier Tank America. Love it. On the Carolina Buchi bracelet, is the initials something that she does or is that something that you added after?
00:02:28
Speaker
Uh, so it's the two beads are made by her, but I actually made the bracelet first, fell in love with it, bought another beaded bracelet by her and then added the initials later.
Influence of Family on Collecting
00:02:40
Speaker
Love it. Yeah. And the Cartier cigar bands are kind of like a low key yet really collectible thing. I spoke to Lori Hirschleifer not too long ago and she was hunting for one and eventually found one. Tell me about those a little bit and why they're so sought after and why they're so difficult to find.
00:02:57
Speaker
So I would actually think that they've had a bit of a resurgence thanks to a more modern jewelry brand called Funder. They actually have enamel cigar bands as well and that I think they actually are like even though they pretty much
00:03:11
Speaker
took the idea from Cartier, they I think are responsible for a bit of the more like pop culture and like more common resurgence. I had first seen them probably a good decade ago. And then it took me three, four years to find one. And the reason why they're so difficult to find I think is a number of reasons. One, they're at least 30, 40 years old. So anything like that, there's a difficulty. And second,
00:03:41
Speaker
Because it's enamel, you can't size it. So it's very difficult to find your size. They made very little. The price has gone up significantly just in the five years since I have been familiar and been looking. But they're also just really,
Personal Connection and Sentimental Value
00:03:57
Speaker
really... It's a statement piece that you can wear every day, but it's also...
00:04:01
Speaker
a statement piece made by a jewelry brand that is so trusted. So I think there's so many variables as to why it makes them quite cool. And they've been kind of seen or spotted on pretty prompt, like a Lori who like is known for her taste in jewelry. So that doesn't hurt either.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah, they're super chic. I love them. I think they're really, really interesting and cool and something that is almost so not Cartier that you kind of do a second. So not Cartier. Right, like it's very of the like must-day Cartier era when they were doing all these things and yeah, super, super cool. So you grew up in a family of collectors and I'm curious to know what kind of stuck with you as you were a child growing up because you were collecting jewelry far before watches.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I grew up, my parents had always worn watches on their wrists, so that's some of my earliest memories. They both had watches as their wedding gifts, but my mother always was very into very simple but very good jewelry, and so, and then I immediately got into that and got interested. She was always very into fashion, and I think jewelry and fashion kind of go together in a similar way that watches in cars or watches in jewelry go together.
Collecting Styles and Trends
00:05:15
Speaker
And that just always kind of sparked my interest. She was, and still to this day, is a massive collector of vintage Cartier, down to their antiques, down to, she primarily collects a lot of their 50s pieces in terms of jewelry. So that was always kind of a brand that stuck with me, held a special place in my heart. Those were, that Cartier has my heart for my first significant pieces of jewelry. And it's traveled with me into my watch collecting as well.
00:05:42
Speaker
I'd be hard pressed to find out if I'm wrong, but in the 50s, the stuff that Cartier was making, I mean, a lot of it was kind of one-off stuff, wasn't it? I mean, there was very like little production pieces back then. A lot of it is kind of like, you know, a few pieces here, a few pieces there. It's kind of why the rarity is so insane, right?
00:06:03
Speaker
Yes, and I think that with jewelry, people like to kind of edit and change the piece, and the brands were quite open to that back then. Some of the pieces I've been shown just because I'm fortunate enough to be around people in the industry, especially in antique and vintage, they've told me the most ridiculous stories about someone going in and saying, well, I want this to have more diamonds, or I want this to be a different color. And the brands back then would do it, because I also don't think there was that much corporate bureaucracy to say no.
00:06:32
Speaker
And there wasn't exactly Cartier can sell how many love bracelets and do well. Whereas back then, a brand like Boucheron or a brand that's so well-made and such high-drawer, even like a jar, someone could go in and say, can I change this? And they're just regard for clientele, they would. And there was a motivation to try and appeal that I don't think so many brands have to this day for a larger group of their clientele.
00:07:01
Speaker
So collecting seems like it's a common theme kind of within your family. It seems like everybody knows your story with your dad collecting watches. He's got you into watches, but your mother collecting jewelry, siblings, grandparents.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, my sister's really,
Bespoke Jewelry and Modern Accessibility
00:07:17
Speaker
she has an appreciation for jewelry and watches as well, but I just don't think it's ever necessarily been her vibe. I think she really respects the craftsmanship and the provenance and all of her favorite pieces are all pieces that she recalls my mother wearing, which I find really sweet.
00:07:36
Speaker
All the most prominent pieces in her collection are what she grew up seeing my mom wear. So that's what matters to her in collecting is she would rather not go and get something new or get something that is strictly her taste. She would want to wear something that was worn by my mother, which also just demonstrates how genuinely sweet my sister is. I love it. Her one collecting caveat is it should be she should have a fond memory of it that was my mother.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, makes sense. I could see that. I mean, especially with something so sentimental as jewelry, you know, there is this heirloom aspect to it that a lot of other collectibles don't necessarily have because a lot of collectibles you can't necessarily wear on your body or on your wrist. Or have the memory of seeing it on someone who you just love dearly.
00:08:26
Speaker
Right. There's something to say about seeing something in someone's home that was a grandparent or something and that gets passed down to you and now it's in your home, so it puts a smile on your face when you walk by the hallway that it's in, but it's different when you can physically wear something. Yeah. There's an intimacy and a sentimentality that I think is developed when you can wear a piece. I recently wrote an article on comparing watches to vintage watches, kind of the world of watches, to dating.
00:08:55
Speaker
And there is an intimacy to wearing a watch that I don't think is like, or a piece of jewelry that I don't think is like any other kind of collectible in a really kind of endearing way. I couldn't agree more. And so I'm curious to know, you've been a jewelry collector for a long time and you're still a jewelry collector. So what were you collecting early on and how has that changed to what you're collecting now?
00:09:21
Speaker
So I primarily started collecting rings. And I would get a ring for a significant occasion. I would get a ring if I went on a trip somewhere.
Influence of Watch Collecting on Jewelry Taste
00:09:32
Speaker
And this shows how my tastes have drastically shifted. I used to easily wear eight or nine rings and stack them. And that was also...
00:09:44
Speaker
10, 15 years ago, that was very of this like Tumblr girl style, which that's just not the case anymore. Wearing two rings, I'm like, I have enough. And I usually just wear one. But I used to love looking down at my hands and thinking, oh, this marks this occasion or this marks this trip. It was like I had a walking kind of photo album in a way of memories.
00:10:10
Speaker
Or if it was given to me by someone significant, it was like I had all of my favorite moments and my most significant occasions just at my fingertips. Would you say your jewelry collecting style is different from your watch collecting style?
00:10:25
Speaker
I think my jewelry collecting style is actually my watch collecting style amplified in that my personal style in terms of fashion as well as like home decor and basically everything is very uniform. It's very black and white. It's all neutrals. Whereas I always like to say my watch collecting is where low key and over the top met meat.
00:10:45
Speaker
And I think you can kind of see that as I love the serpentine. That's such a fun watch that if you would match that with an outfit, it would not be a plain black t-shirt and jeans. And that's how I would always wear it. My jewelry is the only element of my style that has color. I love blues. I love a lapis stone. I love malachite now.
00:11:10
Speaker
Um, I obviously have the yellow diamond pinky ring, which I mean that to me is the definition of low key and over the top So I think that that's where I allow myself to have fun Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting because I think we're seeing Jewelry right jewelry for women has been a thing for forever obviously, but for men it's becoming more and more of a thing, right? I think we're yeah, and we're we're transitioning into this like
00:11:37
Speaker
cocktail watch jewelry watch era and men are kind of going crazy for that right now. And we're already seeing men like start to dabble in the jewelry thing. Like obviously love bracelets and just include stuff has been been a thing for a long time. But now I was going to say we're seeing the Alhambra bracelet being worn by a lot of people. I mean, I was just at the post office the other day and this guy was in workout clothes wearing an Alhambra bracelet. I was like, Oh, that's pretty cool. So it's kind of interesting to see this transition.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, I'm still waiting anxiously. I gave my friend who's a jeweler the idea. I
Process and Collaboration in Bespoke Jewelry
00:12:12
Speaker
think it would be incredible if a man for some red carpet did a lady's cocktail watch, but it was reconstructed and they had it as a lapel pin. I think that's incredible. Like, especially like thinking of how ornate even the not even a vintage cocktail watch, but the modern cocktail, the high jewelry,
00:12:32
Speaker
Cocktail watches to have it manipulated into a lapel pin would just be like oh That's like that kind of set the world ablaze and I'm waiting for so it's only a matter of time Like someone is going to do it and I've also been so obnoxious and telling my friends who can do it to do it I'm just waiting for it to happen. It'll happen for sure
00:12:54
Speaker
So you mentioned earlier kind of this idea of these bespoke pieces being such a thing with jewelry houses. They were so used to doing it back then. They didn't have the corporate bureaucracy that you're mentioning. It's still very much a thing and I think people don't really realize that these high jewelry houses will do bespoke pieces. I mean, is that where you kind of find yourself most of these days in terms of your jewelry collecting is bespoke pieces?
00:13:19
Speaker
I like pieces that have a personal touch, whether I have to suggest that or not. So obviously like the buchi bracelets, you're sent the beads and you can make the bracelet however you want, and then you can add charms. And so I really appreciate any kind of personal touch to it.
00:13:36
Speaker
In terms of bespoke pieces, I don't think people realize that going to a jeweler, so many people do this. I mean, having an engagement ring made, which is very common to go and, you know, have a diamond and then pick the setting. It's the same thing. It's just on a bigger scale. On 47th Street, it's very, very common for people to go in with a reference pick and they can recreate a piece or manipulate it in the way you want.
00:14:02
Speaker
with an established brand, it's a little different. But I remember I was at Bergdorf's and I tried on a bracelet that I really liked and it was huge. And I said, oh, you know, is it possible that there are different sizes? And I was talking with the representative and she said, no, but she said, we can talk to the jeweler and see if she can make you a smaller bracelet. And then I started asking about other
00:14:26
Speaker
kind of amendments to the bracelet as to what charms could be on it or if some charms could be taken away. And she said, of course. She said, you know, we can ask. And I think that that's something that I would have never necessarily been comfortable suggesting had she not already opened the door with the size. But I think so many, especially smaller, fine jewelry brands are super open to it.
00:14:49
Speaker
from the standpoint of it's not that big of a change and you're already working with a piece they had to just kind of make it more wearable and more personal to you, which is never a bad thing.
Industry Insights and Renewed Interests
00:15:00
Speaker
And I love jewelers who are open to that. And if not, I mean, obviously there's kind of more of the wholesale people who that's half their business is they do custom pieces. Right. I mean, it's kind of interesting
00:15:14
Speaker
to think of a jeweler who wouldn't be interested in that, right? Because they can do just about anything for whatever price it costs and whatever lead time it's gonna take. And it's just a matter of if you wanna pay for it or not. And I think you hit the nail on the head is some of the stories I've been told by kind of the more established houses and what they've done, what they've created, it's mind blowing. And it's just a matter of if you're willing to wait and you have the finances to,
00:15:40
Speaker
bring the creation to life. But I think the general public, and I would love at one point for maybe a Reishman or an LBMH to make a coffee table book of some of their most dreamy bespoke pieces. Because I think it also just opens the door to people who might not know they can do it. But also these are some of the most incredible pieces that aren't seen to the public. And I think that as collectors or enthusiasts,
00:16:07
Speaker
It's such a shame to not be able to share that with the world, especially when the craftsmanship is at the utmost and when the quality is at the museum level. It should be seen. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. Would you say the value of bespoke jewelry pieces can even compare to that of a piece unique watch? I mean, or is it so subjective to taste and size that, you know, it's not even the prices don't even make sense?
00:16:35
Speaker
It's so subjective. And what someone finds special in jewelry, I think, is there is a million and one more variables than when someone finds special in a watch. And obviously, the barrier to entry when creating a piece unique from a watch brand is much higher. And I think that in the watch collecting world, they hear a piece unique from Patek or from AP or whomever.
00:17:04
Speaker
And there's a certain value immediately attached with that. Whereas if you hear a one-off jewelry piece, like I explained how, well, you could have a one-off engagement ring. That term piece unique is hardly used in jewelry because so many things are technically a piece unique. Whereas in watches, that's not the case, especially if a brand is doing it. Interesting. Whereas obviously there's some
00:17:29
Speaker
pieces in jewelry that have been done that garner high value. But I feel like a lot of the value is not just in the fact that it's a piece unique. It's in the quality of the stones. It's in the rarity of the stones. There's something concrete that's adding to the value in a way that's far more than just it's a piece unique from Patek. Provenance, of course, too. Yes.
00:17:51
Speaker
Something else we're seeing more and more of is gemstones showing up in watches, right? Has there been anything that you've seen in terms of gem set watches that now have you on the hunt for their jewelry reciprocal?
00:18:05
Speaker
I mean, my yellow diamond pinky ring came from seeing a yellow diamond watch, and I had never liked yellow before. And I saw a watch that was covered in yellow diamonds, and I thought, oh, maybe I like yellow diamonds now. So a lot of my watch collecting has informed my jewelry tastes in a really unique way.
00:18:29
Speaker
From a gem set perspective, I mean, I think I really would like a cocktail watch. That's what I want to be my next watch. And I think at the end of the day, if you're looking at a watch that's covered in diamonds down to the clasp, that is a piece of jewelry. Sure, it tells the time, but that's a jewelry piece. I think of the Royal Oak, and I think of its... I typically wear sports watches, and I don't think that the Royal Oak, especially the vintage ones that are
00:18:56
Speaker
covered in diamonds, that's a jewelry piece now. I can't hold that in the same ilk as I hold just a steel 15202. I mean, there are also so few watches I can think of that have a
00:19:13
Speaker
complimentary jewelry piece.
Collecting Beyond Jewelry
00:19:15
Speaker
I know that Patek does a few of the rings. I know that there are a few out there. I know Cartier does a watch that has the love bracelet like screws on the bezel, but it's really, I look at like, okay, if they have a steel version or they have a gold version, do they have a diamond version or do they? And that's what I look at as the quote unquote jewelry version.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. On the same side as that, we're also seeing jewelry designers, right? Team up with watch brands like Carolina Buchi and AP. And I know you have an affinity for her and her brand and her products. What is it about her brand that excites you so much? And why do you think she was such a good fit to do that partnership with AP?
00:19:55
Speaker
I mean, I'm just in awe of everything she does. And I think that it was such a smart partnership, her craftsmanship, her insight, her creativity was when she did the first collaboration with them.
00:20:11
Speaker
It was so revolutionary to think that that old of a brand would collaborate with that youthful of a designer, that kind of whimsical of a designer. What I think her design ethos is or what her designs represent to me is it's someone who is very serious, who gives the utmost attention to detail, but the product is still whimsical.
00:20:34
Speaker
And I love the idea of there's a bit of a reverence to her pieces. And looking at the bracelet I always wear, it looks like a typical camp bracelet. But then when you look closer, all of the beads are lapis, malachite, turquoise. They're stones. And you wouldn't know that at first
Collecting as a Connection to the Past
00:20:53
Speaker
glance. So I think that she has a ring that I'm obsessed with that it's a pinwheel. And you can actually spin it. And it's covered in different gems. And so I think
00:21:03
Speaker
My affinity for her is that her design ethos is a lot like my personality and that I'm quite a serious person, but I think there's a lot of times where you just need to have fun. Yeah, we're seeing this day and age of jewelry getting more and more fun and playful. I mean, look at Nadine going, crushing the game with hamburger rings and pencil bracelets, right?
00:21:24
Speaker
I mean, I would love to see her collaborate with a watch brand. I mean, even she wears G-Shock, and
Rapid-fire Questions and Reflections
00:21:30
Speaker
I think that would be an incredible collaboration from the standpoint of G-Shock rarely collaborates with women, and a lot of women grew up wearing a baby G. I mean, throughout, especially our lives, that's such a watch that has been worn on women. Seeing her do something with them, I think would be amazing.
00:21:50
Speaker
I mean, we could totally see her doing not only something with AP in the same vein that Carolina Bucci did, but as someone like you said, like G-Shock, and kind of almost recreating with stones these pieces that Pharrell was doing, right? Covering his G-Shocks and Diamonds. My dirty secret with watch collecting is I have such a desire for a blinged-out G-Shock. I think we all do, secretly.
00:22:16
Speaker
Never owned a g-shock. I've never and like if I will it will be a blinked out one because I just think that looks incredible I think it's so fun and like that level of irreverence that I strive for That's why I kind of fell in love with the elegant is I think there's a level of irreverence in that You know, we we don't need this is such a privilege collecting in general is such a privilege You don't need to take it that seriously when you know, the product is excellent. I
00:22:45
Speaker
Right, right. And explaining it to somebody who's like, why are you wearing that? What is that? And you get to tell them about all the materials and the work that goes into it and the stones and how the watches may be worth $150, but all the stones on there are just, yeah, be super interesting. You've worked on a lot of custom pieces.
00:23:02
Speaker
Tell me about that process and I just want you to take the listeners through the process of going in and creating something bespoke because I think a lot of us shy away from doing something like that because it seems so avant-garde and so out of bounds. Well, first I would encourage anyone if they have an idea to
00:23:21
Speaker
Explore it. Just explore it and see because jewelry is meant to be personal. And don't ever, to me, I've equated it too. If you see a dress or you see a jacket in a store you love, but you'd like to make these little amendments so that this is your, like,
00:23:38
Speaker
ideal item that you have for a decade, why wouldn't you tailor it? To me, it's like I look at every piece of jewelry I see as a first offer. I know that sounds terrible, but that like it can be built off of or it can be changed. And so first, obviously the idea has to pop in your head or not. I mean, you can have like a concept, but my most recent piece was the yellow diamond pinky ring I keep mentioning. And I had fallen in love with yellow diamonds in the spring.
00:24:08
Speaker
My birthday is in the fall and throughout the summer I had seen Yellow Diamonds and obviously there's no better time to see a colored gemstone than in the summer. You're like, oh, this is a riot. And so I had looked at multiple stores on Madison at Yellow Stones and what kind of options they had in terms of Canary as well as Yellow Diamond. And then none of their options were really exactly what I wanted in terms of a pinky ring.
00:24:38
Speaker
So then I went to my friends and brought up the idea and basically had it fully baked. Like it was, there was no, nobody was stepping in and telling me to change something. The only thing I needed their input on is the size as to what would be appropriate to wear daily. And this is actually probably a good advice when considering making a ring that you're going to wear every day is they said when it's a single stone, never go bigger than your ring size.
00:25:08
Speaker
Interesting. And I like that a lot. And I tend to have very little fingers. And my pinky is a 1.75, which is small. But I think it was some of the best advice. And also, any diamond guys telling you to maybe be on the more conservative side, you trust that advice.
00:25:27
Speaker
Right, when they're not selling you. Yeah, that's advice you should take. And I did grab a smaller stone than I had originally intended. But that's where I heed to them is they're the experts in that matter.
00:25:43
Speaker
Whereas from a design perspective, I knew what I wanted. But they are far more versed in terms of sizing and what looks nice, what looks appropriate, what will fit on the band I wanted. So with that, when I came with a fully, an idea that was just
00:26:00
Speaker
fully already in my head and I knew exactly what I wanted. In other experiences, I've completely let my friends take the design, basically just let them do the whole process, and they've really created something beautiful. So it all depends as if you know what you want or you don't. And it boils down to, I think, the people who are making the piece for you, you just have to trust them. And you said you did that stone east-west, right?
00:26:26
Speaker
Yeah, so it's set east-west as opposed to like typically, which is north-south. I mean, most stones are set north-south. Right. And it's an oval. So whereas if it obviously is like a princess cut, setting it east-west wouldn't really matter. But with like an emerald or a marquis, setting it east-west makes a huge difference in the look of the ring.
00:26:46
Speaker
And did you do it in yellow gold, like with a yellow gold band or? Yeah, so very, and this came down to which I needed their expertise, and I wanted an incredibly thin yellow gold band, like an incredibly, incredibly thin. And that's when they step in and say, okay, we like that idea, we like that concept, but this is basically how much this stone can take without it being too delicate. Right, because typically when you see pinky rings, the setting is a little bit chunkier, right? It's not really usually in a thin setting.
00:27:16
Speaker
And I wanted it delicate, well as delicate as that ring could be. And then obviously they had to go source the stones once we talked about it. And then the process was, I mean, it all depends on the complexity of the piece. Obviously that was a pretty cut and dry piece from the standpoint of it was one stone in a setting. There wasn't any kind of high craftsmanship involved in that other than the most difficult element was sourcing yellow diamonds.
00:27:44
Speaker
which obviously if there's a craftsmanship element involved, that's a little more complex with a different, even if it was like a snow setting or a more difficult setting, it would have taken longer. It really, I think came down to like three months, which is not a long time for a bespoke jewelry piece at all.
00:28:02
Speaker
Not at all. I mean, anybody who's interested in watches, if we could spend three months waiting for something. Three months is ideal for a service. It's unheard of if your watch is being serviced that quickly. It takes three months to get a response. Yes. I know for Hermes with the bespoke pieces that have been done, minimum it's eight months. You're a handbag. So that's a little more accurate. Eight to 14 months, I would say, is a more accurate
00:28:32
Speaker
expectation for a handbag or a watch. And that's on the minute like 14 months for a piece unique watches. A fair estimate. Yeah, not not too bad. It goes back to I think jewelry is far more common to make bespoke jewelry. Right, right and easier and the materials are way more available, I would say. Absolutely. Would you say the process of making custom jewelry is more exciting to you than the idea of doing it with watches?
00:28:58
Speaker
Well, I've never been fortunate enough to do it with a watch. I'm not very patient. I'm working on it, but I'm not incredibly patient. I like the idea that this is quick. Also, I suppose I've never looked at the watch market because there's so
00:29:22
Speaker
I don't know if this, not that I don't trust jewelers or I don't trust what's on the market, but I've never felt the need to be like, there's a watch out there that I want to create. I'm very happy with what's in the market in terms of watches. And I think the reason I created some of my jewelry is that wasn't on the market. Or I wasn't aware that a piece like that was on the market. Whereas with watches, I don't feel the need to in any way.
00:29:49
Speaker
Also like Rolex is Rolex, Patek is Patek, AP is AP. Like they're top three for a reason. Like they know what they're doing. Like I don't think I could, in my wildest dreams and I'm not just like saying this, I don't think there's anything I would want done to a Royal Oak. I think that's a perfect watch. Right, you just want to be offered a frosted Royal Oak with a rainbow bezel. Yes, and like looking what like Carolina Buchi brought to the table and what she did to that watch,
00:30:19
Speaker
I could never conceptualize that. Right. It's already been done, and if you could get access to it, it'd be perfect. But if I was offered to do that, I couldn't even come up with doing a mirrored dial or the prism dial that is reflective with rainbow. I wouldn't even know that was a possibility where someone with her expertise, she's the perfect person to do that. Whereas I would just be like, I have no idea.
00:30:45
Speaker
Whereas the jewelry, to me, it's a bit easier. It's a little bit easier to be like, well, and a lot of my bespoke pieces in jewelry have been quite simple. They haven't been really revolutionary. But it's your taste, right? And so I'd be curious to know if something like the Alhambra bracelet has lost a little bit of its intrinsic value because it is just something that you can go out and buy, whereas before it was like,
00:31:13
Speaker
almost more of a privilege to be able to get something like that and now they're becoming more and more popular. I mean, I love the Alhambra. I used to wear three of them. I think that's a great bracelet. So many of my friends still have it.
00:31:26
Speaker
It's just like my style has shifted a bit. Now, do I go back and wear them? Yes, of course, because they're so much fun. Look, the classics are the classics for a reason. There's a reason the love bracelet has been around forever. Here, and they have their longevity for so many reasons, I like stacking that with a really unique watch, or I like stacking those with something unexpected. So then, to me, the biggest thing with jewelry and watches is there should be a personal touch.
00:31:56
Speaker
And even if it's mixing different alombas that wouldn't typically be mixed together. I love that, because it's something I haven't seen and it looks different. If you want to wear six alomba bracelets, but you're mixing gold and white gold and you're mixing colors, great. There's a personal element that I really like. I would imagine being a collector of both watches and jewelry has opened up a lot of doors for you.
00:32:23
Speaker
I also think working in the watch industry has helped in that I think it's just A, it's helped my awareness and knowledge of what goes on behind the curtain and that being a collector, you wouldn't necessarily ever have that insight.
00:32:41
Speaker
In terms of collecting, you know what's possible and you know kind of a little bit more as to what can be requested or asked for. But you also, I think, have an awareness for brands and actually what goes into the process in a way that you would never be afforded if you were just a collector.
00:32:59
Speaker
When some of my friends who love Patek or love AP ask me about the wait list and ask me about, oh, is there a shortage? I'm always like, yes. And my insight is actually trusted. Whereas I understand if you go into a boutique for two years and they still tell you, you don't have a watch, you're going to roll your eyes a bit and you're probably going to lose faith in the brand. Whereas there actually was a material shortage for a very long time due to COVID and there
00:33:23
Speaker
is the demand is far greater than the supply, not in an artificial way, but a lot of these watches that have 300 plus components and there's four guys in the world who can do it, they are making them as quick as possible. Right. It's really tough. I think that that's not something the average enthusiast necessarily believes.
00:33:45
Speaker
And I get that. I fully get that. But I think going to a manufacturer, trying to put a component on a watch is one of the most frustrating things I've done. The craftsmanship and the skill level required is insane. And I don't think I would have that sensitivity or sympathy to if I hadn't been in this industry.
00:34:08
Speaker
And you don't really have those problems necessarily with jewelry, right? Like the materials are way more readily available. They're less complicated to do. And if the material that you want is for whatever reason having a shortage at the moment, right? There's something else that will be complimentary that you could do.
00:34:29
Speaker
It's a lot, I think from a manufacturing side, there's a lot less variables in a very good way. And that because there's more options, it almost makes things far easier. Would you say as a whole, you're more interested in jewelry than you are watches?
00:34:45
Speaker
at this current moment, yes, but I also just came home from Sotheby's where I was surrounded by watches and that sparked back my interest because being surrounded by vintage watches, you're like, oh, I do love this. And I didn't even pass their jewelry specialists. So right now though, I think I had neglected jewelry for a good decade and I'm slowly getting back to that.
00:35:12
Speaker
Whereas I'm so content with my watch collection in that I want to develop my jewelry collection a bit more, but I love them both. But yeah, at this current moment, it's definitely, I have a bit more interest in jewelry just because personally, I am more comfortable having fun with jewelry. If you could work with one brand to make custom jewelry for you, who would you go with? Jar. Because they're just there. I mean, they're like,
00:35:39
Speaker
dream worthy. But from a modern brand, it would absolutely be Carolina or Nadine Goh. Absolutely. Because their creativity and their craftsmanship is, I just love it. And their personal style, I love. But yeah, Jar and then those two ladies. Yeah, I feel like with Carolina and Nadine, there's nothing that they wouldn't consider, which I love.
00:36:07
Speaker
Like, there's no boundary of what you could bring to the table as a suggestion that they would scoff at. And I think there's very few brands and people that have that these days. Also, based on that comment, I would say Pierre Salanitro, who I recently got the opportunity to interview him when I was in Geneva.
00:36:27
Speaker
Pierre Salanitro is basically the man who's responsible for the most significant gem setting on every watch from Tiffany to AP to Patek in the past 30 years. And talking to that man and hearing how his creativity is basically just like the universe in that it has no boundary, it's endless.
00:36:47
Speaker
He has this childlike infinite like glee of design, but it's counteracted and almost juxtaposed with such just like an OCD level of care to craftsmanship. And he's just a mesmerizing person to hear that someone can be that dedicated to craftsmanship and skill at almost a methodical mathematical level, but still say his creativity is infinite. And I love that.
00:37:15
Speaker
Amazing. Let's talk about your company for a second, Daily Grail. It's one of my favorite sites to produce. It's super informative and concise and just so fun to look through. I want to hear about how you came up with the IT List and the Grail Matrix and all that. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. Well, the IT List came about as I grew up in the time where it was really fun to make collages and clippings out of like old harpers or in style or vogue.
00:37:45
Speaker
They were famous for doing like top 10 lists that were kind of superimposed in the way that the it list is. So that was where that inspiration came from. And my first it list was with my dear friend Malaika Crawford, who she is Hadenke's style editor, the first ever. And I believe she's a veteran of your podcast as well. She sure is. Yep.
00:38:07
Speaker
And that I knew she has such unique style. She has such an eye, but she also loves watches. And everyone who's done an it list has a love of watches, but they also have such individual taste. And that's what I really wanted to champion is I don't ever want Daily Grail to be fully watches. That was never the goal is
00:38:30
Speaker
There's a million other publications that are about watches that I think do it incredibly well. I don't want to throw my hat in that ring, but there wasn't a media that did watches 60% of the time that obviously there was an interest and there was an emphasis on watches.
00:38:47
Speaker
but done through the angle of every other luxury medium. Whether that be food, whether that be fashion, whether that be wine or art. And that was my kind of bridge of getting people who are into all other craft-based mediums into watches in a very kind of cheeky, fun fashion magazine way.
00:39:07
Speaker
I love it. I'll make sure to link it up because it's, it's so it's, there's very few sites and, and informative blogs that keep things concise and do it in a way that is it's knowledgeable. It comes from the heart, you know, and it, and it's got this like old school, like you said, people Harper's Bazaar, vanity fairs sort of feel to it. I love it.
00:39:32
Speaker
Thank you. Well, and I'm 26. I recognize that attention spans are only going lower. Yeah, they're gone. So, look, the Hadinki Boys for Tello Revolution, they're phenomenal at writing the deep dives into a watch. And believe me, I as a collector and an enthusiast, I love that. But I think a lot of people my age,
00:39:55
Speaker
reading that for the first time, they might be really intimidated by the language, by so many things, whereas, okay, maybe you saw that Chris Hemsworth wore X at the Met, or you saw that John Mayer just became AP's creative conduit. That can be your bridge to then going to a revolution or a head inky, because you saw John Mayer becoming the creative conduit on the matrix with the fact that Kendrick and Drake are beefing, or that another restaurant that you know opened.
00:40:23
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, it all makes sense and hats off to you. So cheers to that. Thank you. Another thing that you've been collecting before we wrap it up here is first editions. Yes. What was the impetus there and where did you even start? Because there's so many avenues that you can go down.
00:40:39
Speaker
So I famously, I would get made fun of in my friend group. I am not a big reader because I only would read the same five books every year, probably since I was about nine years old. And I realized that these five books hold such a significant meaning to my life.
00:40:59
Speaker
in that how i have basically every year i would read them since nine years old and your perspective shifts your input shifts your environment changes and i would obviously understand the book more i would see it from a different angle and i thought
00:41:14
Speaker
These five books have had such an impact on my life. I'd love to kind of treat them with the same respect I've treated watches and that I look at myself as a custodian of all the watches I have and that it's such a privilege to have these, but it's my job to take care of them as the people who had them before me have for the next group to have.
00:41:35
Speaker
And with first editions, I just love the concept of having something from the time in which the author conceptualized and wrote that story. I find that so kind of meta and otherworldly and special. And so that's kind of was the impetus to me looking into purchasing first editions.
00:41:58
Speaker
And as you've collected and learned a bit more about the industry, what makes the prices on them so varied, right? Because you can find five different price ranges for the same book. So I'm curious to know that. I was so naive and such a newbie when I approached it in that I know all the nuance in watches and wine and even fashion. I thought first edition, it's super cut and dry. There's one.
00:42:27
Speaker
No. There's first editions in terms of which cover it was, where it was printed. So obviously an England first edition is different than a US first edition than as a France first edition, the language it was written in. Ian Fleming famously did different covers every few years for his Bond books. So it could be a first edition of said cover, but not exactly of the book. Obviously it goes without saying the condition, whether the slip covers on, but also what I've found so special is
00:42:57
Speaker
with Beautiful and Damned, which is one of my favorite books by Fitzgerald. There are first editions where he has personally inscribed them to people and his wit and humor and kind of sass shows through to who he's inscribing it to. And so to me, I've read all of Fitzgerald's pieces. So seeing something written by him, even if it's a personal letter that I haven't seen before, I find so special.
00:43:24
Speaker
Amazing. Before we wrap it up with the collector's gene rundown, I'd love to know because you're a young 26 year old woman who's an entrepreneur and who's immersed herself in this world of luxury and fashion and jewelry, why is collecting so important to you?
00:43:40
Speaker
I think it's a connection to the past in a way that when we live in such a fast-paced world where we get rid of our phones so quickly, everything we're so used to instant ratification in the world we live in, that it's a really important connection to the past. And I know we touched on how sometimes some of the skills that are required to produce a piece, only four, four is a lucky number. People in the world know how to do it.
00:44:06
Speaker
And some of these skills will die if people our age don't start to respect and value them. And also, I just find it super special in the way that we're taking care of something for the next generation. And there's an awareness of that that I find really sweet in a way where I don't think many pieces today, there's the same sentiment. I love it.
00:44:32
Speaker
All right, JJ, let's wrap it up with the collector's room rundown. We can answer these questions based on jewelry or first editions or watches or handbags, whatever else you collect. Totally up to you. Okay. What's the one that got away? That's a great question. I would say, and I mean, anything that I, since I've been collecting for almost half my life, I can't imagine what someone like Goldberger or someone who like has been collecting for
00:44:57
Speaker
forty plus years would say when the like Rolex star dials weren't ridiculous not the sixty sixty two but Rolex has done other star dials that weren't obscene whereas now they're just ridiculous. Yeah unobtainium the on deck circle. So what's next for you in collecting maybe something you're hunting after because you just got your Canary pinky ring.
00:45:18
Speaker
I would really like a cocktail watch and like the idea of just wearing that every day with a t-shirt and jeans I love. And then I also don't, like from a lazy perspective, I don't need to wear jewelry. I can just wear that and be set. In terms of first editions, I'm hunting down the Petit Prince. Love it. The unobtainable, so one that's just too expensive in a museum, private collection.
00:45:42
Speaker
So I, as a collector, don't like to think anything is unobtainable. I like to think it's just not right now. I think half the fun of being a collector is never necessarily putting a cap on anything. And it's fun to dream. It's fun to think, OK, maybe not today, but maybe it'll come into my life in some way in 10 years or tomorrow. I think having that mindset that something's unobtainable is counterintuitive to being a collector.
00:46:11
Speaker
Is this is this is supposed to be a little frivolous and ridiculous and that's what makes it fun Best answer to that question. Yeah, no doubt. Thank you The page one rewrite so if you could collect anything else Money is no object. What would it be?
00:46:26
Speaker
This sounds so corny, but the one thing that's brought me as much joy as watches and jewelry and kind of the passion I've shared with my father in that is I'm my like alter ego life is I'm really I love spending time with animals. I love gardening. I love just being in nature.
00:46:46
Speaker
And so I think I would just kind of collect up a lot of land and have tons of animals. And that's what would make me just as happy. You can't not have a smile on your face for that, right? I'd still be wearing watches and I'd still be covered in sparkly things, but I'd be incredibly happy just being on acres among endless acres with a bunch of animals. Love it. The goat, who do you look up to in the collecting world?
00:47:13
Speaker
I, so I thought a lot about this. I love Vivian on Instagram, OwlWatchLady, because she has such a diverse collection, but she's also just a powerhouse as a human. And her collection, I, if you're going to follow one watch collector on Instagram, please go follow OwlWatchLady. Her collection is just mind blowing. But also, I was thinking of my father and how he collects.
00:47:40
Speaker
He has never had an ounce of jealousy. He's always been content with what he's had. He's always implored upon me to drink your wine, drive your cars, wear your watches. I think I admire anyone who is incredibly content with their collection. They're always looking for something else, but if they stopped collecting tomorrow, they would be so grateful and so happy. Amazing. Yeah, Owl, she's fantastic and super sweet and generous with her information and time for sure.
00:48:09
Speaker
And her taste, I love someone who's not, especially in the post-COVID era, everybody is so concerned about resale value and hype. She just buys whatever she wants and is so unapologetic about her taste, and that's so admirable. Yep, I absolutely love it. She is a true collector. True collector, and she was wearing this amazing,
00:48:36
Speaker
Bvlgari Genta watch when I saw her in New York and it has this kind of cushion shaped. It's very Cartier pebble like I'd never seen that before. It was just fantastic. And that's the like half the joy and collecting is because you're so inundated when you see something you've never seen before you're immediately the love of kind of you first
00:48:58
Speaker
your first foray into collecting comes back and you're like, this is why I do this because just seeing something you've never seen before and feeling like you're eight years old again is so much fun. A hundred percent. The hunt or the ownership, which one do you enjoy more? It used to definitely be the hunt, but now I think especially with watches, it's the ownership.
00:49:22
Speaker
Like a few years ago, that wouldn't have been my answer. But for my 25th birthday, I received a vintage day date. And I remember the day I received it, I was like, I'm kind of content. Like I'm done. At 25 years old, I feel so ridiculous saying this, but I got my favorite watch. I don't know what to do. I didn't go on Chrono24 the next day. I barely looked on Instagram the next day to see other watches.
00:49:46
Speaker
And I think that's at the end of the day, I'm so privileged and so fortunate that that's where I am in my collecting that I'm slowly starting to be like, no, I'm super happy. Now, that obviously has dissipated about a bit and I want the cocktail watch. But like, now it's the ownership, I think is you're meant to enjoy this. Like you're you're meant to enjoy these pieces. You don't always need to be looking for the next. Enjoy it for, I think, a healthy amount of time.
00:50:13
Speaker
Most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene? Yes, and I think everyone is because at the end of the day, it's a way to look to the past. Whether you value your own past in your family or whether you value a past that wasn't yours, it's a way to look back or forward in a really incredible way. I think it's a way to preserve the now, the past, and the future.
00:50:40
Speaker
J.J., thank you so much for coming on today. You are super impressive, and I'm super excited to see a photo of that pinky ring because it sounds so cool, and I love it. And send a picture of the Cartier Cigar Bantu because those never get old looking at. But thank you again. I look forward to getting together in New York with a bunch of us soon and talking all things collecting. Thank you so, so much for having me. It was such a joy.
00:51:08
Speaker
All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.