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PI Sleuths
268 Plays1 year ago
Private investigators have long been favorites of mystery authors and readers, and they feature in both gritty and cozy tales. In today's episode, Brook and Sarah discuss the different types of PIs that readers might encounter and what they like about this sub-genre.
Discussed
- Alfred Hitchcock's Three Investigators series, (1964-1987) Robert Arthur Jr.
- Kinsey Milhone in the Alphabet series, (1982-2017) Sue Grafton
- Cormoran Strike series, (2013-present) Robert Galbraith
- Maisy Dobbs series, (2003-2022) Jaqueline Winspear
- Spenser novels, (1973-2011) Robert B. Parker (series continued written by Ace Atkins)
- A to Z Mysteries, (1997-2005) Ron Roy
- Calendar Mysteries (2009-2014) Ron Roy
- The Missing American (2020) Kwei Quartey
- IQ (2016) Joe Ide
- W.I.S.E Enquiries Agency series (2015-present) Cathy Ace
- The Wakeland series (2016-present) Sam Wiebe
- Hammerhead Jed series (2018-present) A.J. Devlin
- Agatha Raisin series (1992-present) M.C. Beaton
For more information
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Music: Signs To Nowhere by Shane Ivers – www.silvermansound.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts' Passion for Mysteries
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke. And we both love mystery. Hi, Brooke. Good morning, Sarah. How are you doing? I'm all right. Thank you. How are you? I'm great. We're enjoying some springtime weather finally in my neck of the woods. It was a chilly spring so far. So we're really happy about this sunshine we're getting.
00:00:35
Speaker
We've had a short spring and it is going to be full on summer this weekend. So I'm pretty excited about that. I think that's where we're headed to.
Exploring PI Sleuths and Noir Fiction
00:00:45
Speaker
So today we are going to talk about PI sleuths, which I think will be really interesting. Yes, I'm looking forward to it. And I'll start us off with our little summary.
00:00:58
Speaker
So in season one, we did a two-part series on noir and hard-boiled detective fiction with Frances of Chronicles of Crime. And she is an absolute expert. And in those shows, we highlighted the grim and gritty urban PIs of the 1940s and 50s and their creators, such as Raymond Chandler, Dashiel Hammett, and Ross McDonald.
Characteristics of the PI Subgenre
00:01:20
Speaker
This time, we'll investigate the beginnings of the subgenre a bit more, discuss some things we especially enjoy about private detective stories, and explore others in the space, including some more contemporary PIs.
00:01:36
Speaker
Private investigators are self-employed, self-proclaimed loners who hang out their shingle to earn a living helping others solve puzzles, gain justice, or prove innocence. This subgenre is situated firmly between police procedurals on one end, where police officers are the main characters, and cozy mysteries on the other with amateur sleuths solving cases.
00:02:01
Speaker
To me, PI fiction contains the best of both worlds. As readers or viewers, we get a skilled detective hired to investigate a crime. Like in a police procedural, this automatically gives the character a believable reason for becoming involved in the case.
00:02:17
Speaker
but more similar to a cozy, they primarily work alone and the cases they are originally hired for inevitably become more complicated and they turn personal, which means the sleuth becomes emotionally invested.
History of Private Detective Agencies
00:02:33
Speaker
The first real life detective agency was formed in 1833 by a French soldier, criminal, and privateer named Eugene Francois Vidoc. He also hired ex-cons to work for him.
00:02:46
Speaker
His and other agencies offered investigative services for hire to individuals who believed the police weren't doing their job or that they weren't honest or fair. So this immediately created an intense rivalry between these new private detective agencies and the police forces.
00:03:05
Speaker
The seeds of two important PI tropes in fiction are embedded in this tiny bit of history. First, that of the shady character working as a detective sidekick or heavy. And second, the ongoing friction between the cops assigned to a case and the private investigator also trying to get to the bottom of it. Both of these components are popular tropes in private eye fiction even to this day.
Real vs. Fictional PI Work
00:03:33
Speaker
In actuality, the work of a private detective in our day and age is mostly administrative. Insurance agencies hire them to investigate insurance fraud such as fake injuries or other suspicious claims, and attorneys hire them to perform due diligence work such as serving paperwork and completing background checks or locating potential witnesses.
00:03:55
Speaker
Really, few private detectives actually get hired to investigate murders. But thankfully for us mystery lovers in the world of fiction, we see it all the time.
Favorite PI Characters
00:04:04
Speaker
What's even better is when a seemingly simple case like finding a long-lost sister or helping evict a troublesome tenant reveals something completely sinister and takes the PI on a fun, twisty adventure.
00:04:19
Speaker
That dark, rather pessimistic vibe of Sam Spade and Philip Marlowe may be less popular in today's fiction. But I think the allure of PI fiction with its succinct, dialogue-heavy scenes, friction between the cops and the PIs, and the heroic yet flawed sleuth remains. These are definitely the things that keep me coming back to the subgenre over and over.
00:04:42
Speaker
Some of my personal favorite PIs are The Three Investigators, Jupiter Jones, Peter Crenshaw, and Bob Andrews by Robert Arthur Jr., Kinsey Milhone by Sue Grafton, and Cormoran Strike by Robert Galbraith. But I also met some new ones this week while preparing for the show that I really enjoyed. And I'm interested in finding out your favorite, Sarah, and if you have any suggestions for me.
00:05:10
Speaker
Well, thank you, Brooke. I think that was an excellent overview, just bringing us up to speed on the history of PIs and PIs in fiction.
Cozy vs. Dark PI Stories
00:05:20
Speaker
So I think we've talked about this before. I've never read any Sue Grafton, and I haven't read any of the Cormorant Strike books. What was the other one that you mentioned?
00:05:32
Speaker
Oh, it was my favorite as a kid, the three investigators. So that's a juvenile series where three kids provide investigative services for their friends. So yeah, and I haven't read any of that. But I think at some point I will dive into each of those because you've recommended them a couple of times, I think.
00:06:00
Speaker
I think have read more of the cozy type PI fiction. And I think within the subgenre, there is almost a sub-genre where there's the noir or the hard-boiled, the really gritty PIs. And then on the other side of the spectrum, these cozier ones. And you kind of alluded to this in the introduction.
00:06:29
Speaker
So I really enjoyed the books that I've read from the series, The Number One Ladies Detective Agency by Alexander McCall Smith. So that's set in Botswana and features a female PI who sets up her investigative services and helps members of her community to solve local crimes.
00:06:58
Speaker
It's a really sweet series. And another series along the same vein is Alan Bradley's series featuring Flavia Deleuze where she is, she starts out as an 11 year old, but I'm not sure that I would categorize this as young fiction or fiction for young readers because
00:07:22
Speaker
She definitely is dealing with some adult themes, but it's post-war Britain. Initially, she's not a private investigator, but over the course of the series, she does take on cases, even though she's quite young, but that's kind of fun.
Modern PI Stories and Recommendations
00:07:46
Speaker
Those are probably the ones that I read the most of, but there are some others in preparing for our conversation today that I've read as well.
00:07:57
Speaker
That's great. So we, I think kind of bookend this because my experience in reading it has been more at the, um, I would say grittier and then you're more at the cozy. And I've, I did the opposite. Like this week I read, um, the Maisie Dobbs series by Jacqueline
00:08:19
Speaker
Well, I didn't read the whole series, but I read one of her books and really loved it. And it's exactly what you say. It's like a cozy PI. And someone else I would put into that category is Miss Scarlet from Miss Scarlet and the Duke, which is a series of course on PBS. And I found that I really enjoyed combining those two, those two flavors because
00:08:49
Speaker
While I do really enjoy the way a PI novel is told because it's kind of told as a report, isn't it? You're getting a report on this investigation that this person did almost like you're sort of in the shoes of the person that hired them. You're getting like this.
00:09:06
Speaker
this report on how the investigation went. I really enjoy that about the way these stories are told, but I don't necessarily need a really grim and dark story. So when you bring in the lighter feel with the female detective and even historical makes it even better. I just thought they were a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I did something similar, Brooke. I read a few of the darker, kind of noir side of the spectrum to prepare, but more modern books. So I read The Missing American by Kway Quarty. And so this is a P.I. sleuth, is one of several characters in the book. Most of the others that I've read have really just been told from the perspective of the P.I.
00:09:56
Speaker
and are often in first person, I think. But this one, we got the point of view of several characters. And it's set in Ghana. The sleuth is a former police officer.
00:10:11
Speaker
And she joins a private detective agency. And so it's really, I think it's the first in a series and it kind of is a little bit of her origin story. How does she become a detective? And the story was really interesting. It revolved around online scams conducted from Ghana sort of catfishing
00:10:35
Speaker
I think catfishing is the right word or the right term to scam either Europeans or North Americans and convince them that they're dating someone who doesn't exist, who then all of a sudden needs a lot of money and the money gets wired over to the fraudster. So anyway, I liked it. It was cozy-ish.
00:11:04
Speaker
Um, super noir. The other one that I read is IQ by Joe Eday. Um, and it's set in, I think East LA, you know, there's drugs, guns, violence, lots of language. So if.
00:11:21
Speaker
I know there are some readers who don't really care for harsh language. There's definitely a lot in this, so this might not be the right book for them. Again, this was his origin story and first in series, but this is a Sherlockian type story where the investigators, he goes by IQ and he uses Sherlock's methods in terms of
00:11:51
Speaker
observation to come to his conclusions. And he's got a sidekick named Dodson. And they definitely have some tension between them, but we get to learn kind of what their history of how they became together or how they became friends or acquaintances is perhaps a better description. But definitely a darker story.
00:12:19
Speaker
That's funny because IQ was also on my list. I didn't get to it because I read the Maisie Dobbs and then I also picked up because it had
Sue Grafton's Alphabet Series
00:12:28
Speaker
been a while. I read Robert B. Parker, one of the Spencer novels.
00:12:33
Speaker
But that is definitely one that I want to read too because it's gotten a lot of attention. That's a great series and it does parallel the Sherlock and Watson relationships. So I think it sounds really good. But I wanted to go back to the first title you mentioned. I love that it's so contemporary because I think a lot of times in PI stories that even though somebody's maybe writing them contemporary,
00:12:59
Speaker
We still get the same types of crimes. Like I mentioned, some of them, you know, insurance fraud and then you it leads into finding out that somebody that you thought was a suicide was a murder, for instance. But I love that those crimes are so contemporary and it's things that people are experiencing right now. And I think it really freshens up maybe some of the tired tropes that PI fiction could experience when they just kind of stick to those same stories.
00:13:29
Speaker
I liked that as well that it was, you know, something told from the perspective of the person committing the crime as well. Like that was that was kind of interesting as well as the victim. So, yeah, that was it was a good story for sure.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. I think a calling card of this sub genre is definitely that first person past tense because like I said, it's like you're getting a report on how this investigation went. But Sue Grafton did something different with, so her series is the alphabet series, goes from A to actually Y. Sue Grafton passed away before she wrote Z. But in her book, which is X,
00:14:13
Speaker
And every book has like A is for alibi, B is for burglar, X is just X. She doesn't have any other explanation in the title. And it's a great story because X means various things. And as you're reading it, you're like, Oh, I think this is what the title means because somebody like there's an ex savior, for instance, and there's all these different things that you start to think could be the meaning of X. So that's really fun. But
00:14:40
Speaker
Back to my original point, which is that's the one and only book in her series that she tells from multiple points of view.
00:14:50
Speaker
And I really enjoyed it because similarly to what you said, you get the bad guy's perspective. And most of the time during the story, you're not sure whose head you're in. You just know that it's the bad guy. But from the sleuth's perspective, you don't know who the perpetrator is. But she actually got a lot of flack for that because she had set up the series to be this first person narrator.
00:15:15
Speaker
And when she dropped X and she had multiple points of view, her fans really didn't like it. And so she then went back to the original for Y. And to me, that's probably more about the pattern that she had set up than, you know, you can't do that in a private detective novel, but just an interesting side note there. Yeah, that is interesting.
00:15:36
Speaker
I started but didn't finish reading a book by Kathy Ace. So again, this is the first in her Wise Women Detective Agency series, and it features a team of four investigators, one from Wales, one from Ireland, one from Scotland, and one from England, and that's where Wise comes from.
00:15:57
Speaker
And it's a pretty cozy, cozy feel. And in this, they go undercover. And because it's four of them, the story is necessarily told from different perspectives. So I think most of the ones that I read were not first person. And maybe that's just a shift in the genre. I don't know.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah, good point.
Ensemble Cast Trend in PI Stories
00:16:20
Speaker
I think that the more traditional noir leaning stories, you're going to get that first person perspective, but maybe on the cozier end, you get to have
00:16:34
Speaker
multiple. And I also think that these group stories where you have multiple sleuths, I mean, we're still talking about detective agencies, but I think that that's a very contemporary trend as well. And it makes me, even though this isn't a PI novel, but it makes me think about the Richard Osman situation where you have this ensemble cast of people working together. They're popular, they're really fun. It's a way to incorporate
00:17:03
Speaker
different types of characters, and then they can come together as a team. I always really like those types of stories. So I would be remiss if I didn't mention a couple of Vancouver authors who write in the PI genre. And there's two that I'm thinking of that are really on either end of the spectrum that we've been talking about.
Local PI Authors and Recommendations
00:17:21
Speaker
So the first is Sam Weeb, and his stories feature the darker, grittier side of Vancouver.
00:17:29
Speaker
And I think his sleuth is a former police detective who's now set up his own investigative agency. And they're great and he's won awards for his books.
00:17:45
Speaker
And the other side is A.J. Devlin and his pro wrestler turned PI. And so it's a much more comedic, much lighter. But both of those are set here in Vancouver. And A.J. is one of words as well for for his series. So I thought I would just mention both of them as something that readers might want to look at.
00:18:11
Speaker
Those are great, Sarah. Yeah, that sounds really fun. You've told me about the professional wrestler turned detective before, and I definitely have that on my list. It sounds really fun. I mentioned the three investigators series, but if you are a parent and you would like to get your young readers into P.I. fiction, I would highly recommend the A to Z mysteries by Ron Roy. And he also has the calendar mysteries. So these features three friends who are
00:18:41
Speaker
investigating crimes for their friends. And of course, these are for early chapter readers. So the crimes are things like, you know, a missing lunchbox or someone's dog is missing. But the characters are Dink Duncan, Josh Pinto, and Ruth Rose Hathaway. And it's a really cute young ensemble cast and
00:19:04
Speaker
We read all of them A to Z when my daughter was little and I think that kids would really like these. Oh, that's an excellent recommendation and I'm going to have to look for it because I do have a little mystery lover in our household. With Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys, they didn't officially set up as investigators, did they?
00:19:31
Speaker
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. They definitely helped people, but it wasn't, I think, the pure detective agency, you know, that I have in my mind in this situation. But Veronica Mars, she was a detective or, you know, working with her dad at the beginning of the series and then on her own later.
00:19:52
Speaker
For sure. For sure.
Amateur to Professional PI Transitions
00:19:54
Speaker
And I like what you said about the, um, the Alan Bradley series where perhaps this person is an amateur sleuth. They've solved some cases, but because they are really good at it.
00:20:07
Speaker
They become known for it and then open a detective agency. I like that concept because I think we can agree that a cozy mystery series with an amateur sleuth, you're really relying on your readers to suspend disbelief about this person continuing to solve crimes.
00:20:25
Speaker
We do it because it's a lot of fun. I write them so I understand deeply the conundrum we get into. But I like that concept of like, okay, I'm really good at this. I think I'm going to hang out my sign and offer to help others.
00:20:41
Speaker
I agree. I think it makes sense from a narrative perspective. And I think MC Beaton did that with Agatha Raisin. So I think she started out not necessarily as a professional investigator, but ultimately I think does open up her own investigative agency.
00:21:03
Speaker
I like that. Yes, I've read early some of the early books in that series and they are a hoot. But yeah, I love that concept. And I think it makes the continuing a series long term more believable and easier to buy into.
Conclusion and Appreciation for Mysteries
00:21:18
Speaker
Thank you so much. I think this has been a really fun conversation talking about P.I. sleuths and the kind of broad spectrum that they that they can occupy in the books that we enjoy.
00:21:32
Speaker
Absolutely. And we both have more reading suggestions and that's always a good thing. I know our lists are never ending. Thank you everyone for joining us today on Clued in Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery.
00:21:50
Speaker
Clued in Mystery is produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen. Music is by Shane Ivers at Silvermansound.com. Visit us online at cluedinmystery.com or social media at Clued in Mystery. If you liked what you heard, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or telling your friends.