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Tristan Walker - Vintage Cartier, Black Cool & the Edge of Culture
1.3k Plays1 year ago
Tristan Walker may be new to the collecting scene, but if the name sounds familiar, well, that’s because he sold company Walker & Company (makers of the grooming brand Bevel) to Procter & Gamble and sits on the board of companies like Shake Shack and Footlocker. Tristan’s approach to collecting is very similar to the way he runs his companies, and consistency is the name of the game. His passion for collecting is ever growing and he’s making the right relationships along the way. Our text chain is nothing short of a year's worth of watch purchases, books, and some good banter between the two of us. My favorite part about Tristan’s collection? If you put 10 collectors in a room, not a single one of us would ever guess what’s sitting in his watch box, and I have the pictures to prove it. It’s not just what’s sitting at home that makes him a great collector, it’s the fact that he has a great eye for design and you can see it in the products he’s created. At the end of the day, the guy just gets it. Alright, I am excited and honored to introduce to you, my friend, Tristan Walker, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Tristan's Instagram - https://instagram.com/tristanwalker?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Bevel - https://getbevel.com/
Walker & Company - https://walkerandcompany.com/
How I Built This w/ Tristan Walker - https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764355017/live-episode-walker-company-tristan-walker
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Transcript
Introduction and Industry Gatekeepers
00:00:00
Speaker
In every industry that I'm in, I look for the gatekeepers who are preventing the majority of the world, who are culturally influential, from truly participating. And I'm going to call a spade a spade. The watch industry has not fully opened its arms wide.
00:00:22
Speaker
What's going on everybody and welcome to collector's gene radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening and please enjoy today's guest on collector's gene radio.
Meet Tristan Walker: Entrepreneur and Collector
00:00:47
Speaker
Tristan Walker is my guest today and while he may be new to the collecting scene, the name may sound familiar because he sold his company, Walker & Company, makers of the grooming brand Bevel, to Procter & Gamble and sits on the board of companies like Shake Shack and Footlocker.
00:01:02
Speaker
Tristan's approach to collecting is very similar to the way he runs his companies and consistency is the name of the game here. His passion for collecting is ever growing and he's making the right relationships along the way. Our text chain is nothing short of a year's worth of watch purchases, books and some good banter between the two of us. My favorite part about Tristan's collection though, if you put 10 collectors in a room, not a single one of us would ever guess what's sitting in his watch box and I have the pictures to prove it.
00:01:30
Speaker
But it's not just what's sitting at home that makes him a great collector. It's the fact that he has a great eye for design, and you can see it in the products that he's created. At the end of the day, the guy just gets it. All right, I am excited and honored to introduce to you my friend Tristan Walker for Collectors Gene Radio.
The Friendship and Passion for Watches
00:01:50
Speaker
Tristan Walker, a long time coming, but man, I'm so excited to have you on Collectors Gene Radio today. Man, we've been waiting for this for a while now. I'm glad to be here.
00:01:59
Speaker
I feel like we've known each other for 20 years. Forever, right? Yeah. I feel like we text about watches more than I text my wife each day. It's pretty hilarious. My wife's like, okay, this Tristan guy is really cool, but you guys are texting all day. I get it. Trust me. I get it. It's been at least a year, I think, since we've known each other, no? Yeah, man. This is when I really started to think about just watches in general.
00:02:28
Speaker
Your podcast is one of the ones that I started to listen to to get really excited about it. So yeah, I mean, it's been about a year. So sweet of you. I'll pick up the cake later. That's right. Many texts back and forth, many watch purchases later, and here we are. Yeah, barely, you know, but we move forward. Yeah, well, we're both hanging on.
Tristan's Career Path and Themes
00:02:54
Speaker
I don't want this to be a, uh, how I built this episode one because you've done it and, uh, and two because I'm not guy Ross, but I do think your story is interesting and compelling and worth telling from 30,000 feet. So let's start at four square. Uh, you know, you started there kind of during your time at Stanford, you convinced Dennis Crowley to give you a job, you crush it and you become entrepreneur in residence at Andreessen Horowitz.
00:03:21
Speaker
in which they basically pay you to come up with ideas. It's unbelievable that that exists. I don't know if it still does. I would like to think it's, uh, it's still in existence, but I'm not sure. And, uh, you know, there's a lot of important events that transpired before and during this time. So I'll definitely link your episode with guide here, but is this where you develop the company bevel? Is this where everything kind of gets started?
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I'll kind of take it a little bit higher than 30,000 feet. Look, I mean, everything that I've done, I think for my career, certainly for the past kind of 10 to 15 years, really is related to three themes of the world that I care about fairly exclusively. And everything could be explained by the intersectionality of these three themes. The first theme is the importance of criticality that I believe this demographic shift happening in this country has, and at large the cultural influence.
00:04:17
Speaker
folks of color within it. I think it's singularly the most important theme of my lifetime and I've chosen to dedicate my life to it. Second, technology, of course, and I certainly had a front row seat in Silicon Valley on this, but I think about technology not only for businesses and its growth, but I think a lot about its map back to this demographic shift and particularly equipping what I like to call these curators of culture with tools they need to spread it. And then lastly, I love great brands because I think the best of the best can really be a force for good in the world.
00:04:47
Speaker
So I knew during my time at injuries in Horowitz that whatever I did next had to really fit those three themes and really Bevel was born out of it. And for those who don't know, Bevel is a grooming company focused exclusively on the needs of consumers of color.
Founding and Challenges of Bevel
00:05:07
Speaker
And, you know, for a while, for a long while, for as long as it's injuries, there haven't been brands that I felt
00:05:16
Speaker
We've been serving this community with as much excellence and care as it deserved, particularly considering its cultural influence, how much money we spend on it, et cetera. And I felt that there was a wide open opportunity as a consumer myself to do something that was authentic, considered delightful and important. So, you know, Bevel was birthed out of my time.
00:05:39
Speaker
in Silicon Valley, ironically, and the rest is history. Amazing. And then you basically, they're letting you run with the idea. So you go to raise capital, 50 to 60 VCs turn you down, you finally get through and raise a couple million bucks to get you started. But it's not enough to effectively market in the way I'm sure you would have liked to. Yeah, no, I mean, it's the one thing I learned, you know, after certainly 10 years of doing this, but you learn it very quickly.
00:06:08
Speaker
is the real big companies that matter in this space, the ones that have been around for 100 plus years, have been around for that long for a reason. And you think about Procter & Gamble, which the company is now a part of, these guys make $80 billion a year. They spend $2 billion in research and development. For a company that in its first round raised $2 million, and you think about the relativism of scale, it's a long road. But fortunately, I think for us,
00:06:38
Speaker
we found this thin edge of the wedge, so to speak, an audience that would, I think, have outsized cultural share if we did it the right way with authenticity.
00:06:49
Speaker
which didn't require us to spend as much money as some other larger companies might for things like brand awareness, etc. When you're so focused on cultural connectivity, we're so focused on technology as a form for distribution of that cultural connectivity. And then, you know, being a force for good in the world, and it's fascinating how quickly you can grow when you focus on those three things. No doubt. And as you mentioned, you sold the company to PNG,
00:07:13
Speaker
You're now on the board of Shake Shack and Foot Locker. I just had to make sure we told a small version of that story because it's one of my favorites. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm very, very lucky to be a part of all of these brands that I care deeply about, that I've had a long history with as a consumer, but also, you know, you think about Bevel with growing products. You think about Foot Locker, you know, sneakers. You think about Shake Shack burgers. But each really cares deeply.
00:07:42
Speaker
about the intersectionality of those three themes that I talked about a little bit earlier. And it's just wonderful that I get to have such a focus and consideration for those three things. And they give me a chance, you know? No doubt.
Tristan's Collecting Journey Begins
00:07:56
Speaker
All right, let's talk about the other good stuff. Let's talk about collecting. Let's do it. Let's do it. Now, admittedly, you didn't give the disclaimer, man. And that disclaimer really goes as follows. I am new to this space. How new? I am not Ben Clymer, Jeff Stein level collector.
00:08:11
Speaker
I've started my collector journey in January of this year. Amazing. Look, I have a very narrow focus and one thing that I've learned from, we've got to know a lot of the same people. One of the bits of conventional wisdom here is, buy what you like. I always loved what Eric Wynn says, don't buy what you like, buy what you know. I really tried to be thoughtful about not only what I like, but where's my finish at the wedge in the space. I come here humbly.
00:08:42
Speaker
but also come here as a fan. And I just wanted to let these folks know, because I do not have 20 plus years of watch history, but I care deeply about it.
00:08:51
Speaker
Well, for anyone that does know you, it's obviously no secret that you do love watches, specifically vintage Cartier and more recently Patek Philippe, and as well as books. You're a book collector and you and I text about it, as we mentioned, just about every single day. And it's always a great part of my day when I get a text from Tristan about a new watch that's come onto his radar. So what is it about Cartier and Patek that have made you so over the moon for being such a new collector? Yeah, it's funny.
00:09:21
Speaker
that kind of history with watches. I didn't have a father who's passed me down one. I didn't have a watch that I found that had some crazy provenance to it. My entry into watches, funny enough, started from my love for books. Outside of my book collecting, I also have started in the past year to learn book binding. I have such a deep love for
00:09:45
Speaker
kind of these artisan trades that are somewhat AI proof, you know, and I wanted to make sure I was kind of doing things with my hands. Certainly I would collect these books and then I also like read the books that I collect. I don't like put them in storage, that sort of thing, because they're so kind of old and dainty, you know, I want to be able to fix them for myself. I want to be able to design books for myself. And, you know, one day last year, you know, I was browsing Pinterest, go figure.
00:10:12
Speaker
because I started to get really excited about Art Deco era book design. You have some folks like Paul Bonnet, wonderful artisan, and there's these beautiful books that he's designed with the bound. With Pinterest, it's so random, the things that you see in the feed. I remember because I was searching Art Deco book design, and there was one in particular that I saw that really struck me. I learned it was a Cartier,
00:10:42
Speaker
London Benoit exploded numerals with the perfect circle in the middle with the London signature. And I was like, what is that? You know, much in the same way that I thought about kind of these books, I saw like this art piece that I thought was very interesting. I had never been struck by a watch design before, because I just never paid attention to it. So you can imagine the impact, kind of seeing that for the first time. I clicked it out. And, you know, it was an article that was talking about Tyler the Creator's collection.
00:11:10
Speaker
And look, I had already known about Tyler and his work, and I think he has great taste. And for someone to have gone as deep as he did into Cartier, but to have an eye for that same watch, and he has it, I said, wow, there's got to be something here.
The Cartier Connection
00:11:29
Speaker
And then you start to click another thing in Pinterest and another thing in Pinterest.
00:11:33
Speaker
And then I went down this kind of Cartier rabbit hole and you know that led me to you know someone who became my good friend Harry Fain and I think that connection really just plunged me into the deep
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Harry's been kind of a go-to and a mentor and a friend and a, I guess, a dealer for you, for a lot of the Cartiers that you collect, and he's really taught you a lot and exposed you to a lot of things that most people would never have seen. I mean, you flew to London to go meet with him. Yeah. When I first clicked on that link, I was like, oh, maybe I should get a watch. I started to think about an artisanship of watchmaking and started reading about that.
00:12:15
Speaker
There's a lot of things that kind of are instantly recognizable from the bookbinding trade in a lot of ways, right? And I have such respect for those artisans that are named. And, you know, we have some of that in watchmaking, but look, there are so many who are unnamed. And, you know, that led me to Google searches about kind of Cartier in London watches. And then, you know, I find this website, Obsidian, which is Harry's company, and I call and say, I want this watch.
00:12:42
Speaker
You know, there's a newbie who has no idea about how this thing works. I'm like, no, I want this watch. And they're like, we don't have that watch. He's like, what do you mean you don't have that watch? And he's like, you know, Tristan, they only made like six, seven, eight of these ever. You're like, well, shit, no, I really want this watch. Like, what do you mean? And he's like, you know, it's going to be a hard, unfortunately, I ended up kind of getting that watch later on. But like, it started me down this, wow, there is incredible art in this.
00:13:12
Speaker
Look, I'll be very frank, there's asset value in it. Then when I started to learn that you can take these art pieces outside of your house, use them functionally, and over time, they may be more valuable than when you first got them. I was like, there's something here that is very special in the same way that when I collect my books, I actually put them to use because I just love and care for them. Harry said, we don't have that watch, but we do have one.
00:13:41
Speaker
that you might want to think about. And he sold me my very first Vince's watch, which is, or was, is a Cartier Tank Normale London 1966 Great Condition Perfect Watch. And I was hooked.
00:13:56
Speaker
The watch is incredible. When you sent me a photo of that, I was like, wow. And that's kind of what I love about your Cartier collection, right? Is that you could tell 10 amazing collectors that you have X amount of Cartiers in your collection. And you could let them all take a stab at guessing which ones are in the watch box. And I guarantee all 10 wouldn't be able to get it right.
00:14:19
Speaker
100% and they probably can select one not one and and your collection is so truly unique Things that I've never seen before from Cartier dials I've never seen before from Cartier from these eras where they did only make five to ten watches. Yeah When I first got into this especially that first watch cuz it's like man like wow and watches do cost this much, huh? It's like interesting you love it go for it
00:14:46
Speaker
But, you know, that's where Harry came in and, you know, that's where you get the books and George Gordon books, like all this stuff. Right. And I started to really go in depth. And then I promised I said, all right, I'm only going to have a set number of watches. Cause I know me, if I really start to get into something, it'll be too much. So I have to have a set number, which is going to bound me. So I have to really be thoughtful about my approach here. And I think I honed in on my, again, an edge of the wedge, right. And kind of my focus, at least for Cartier.
00:15:14
Speaker
is 40s, 50s Cartier, post-war, and or London era Cartier, which everyone knows is kind of the most special era. But in 40s, 50s, I found to be fairly unique because post, at least the way that I describe it, post-war, it was kind of Cartier trying to not refine itself, it knew who it was, but experiment. And I think that is the era that I found has the most experimentation, unusual dial type
00:15:44
Speaker
some interesting case shapes. And as Art Deco, as they had been known, and very kind of elaborate, right? Like you get to see a little bit of that experimentation, which is very exciting. And I think during that era, that's where you see kind of Cartier ephemera. Like I have some watches that I have to believe. I have to believe they're not one of one.
00:16:08
Speaker
But after all of that time, and my not having seen them in many of the books or anything like that, that they're one of a few left. And to care for that, cherish it in the same way that I might have a Paul Bonnet book or a Cobb and Sanderson book as well, it is ephemera that will be cherished for a long time.
00:16:28
Speaker
And I kind of have my little hypothesis as to what made you go that route versus the usual suspects. Tell me, tell me. Well, I look at it. Tell me about myself. I, you know, getting to know you and, you know, starting Bevel and all those things.
00:16:46
Speaker
it all makes sense to me because you did your own experiment, right? You went through leaps and bounds to start something and create something and experiment with something that hasn't been done before. And I think that that's, whether it was your thought process in the beginning, I just think that that was what maybe drew you to those watches from that period. For sure, for sure.
00:17:11
Speaker
I don't know, the genius aspect of the designs and the simplicity of the dials and the juxtaposition of that. I just think, in my opinion, is what drew you to that, but I'd love to know your thoughts. Yeah, I mean, the thing I love about Cartier is that, you know, it's a lot of form, you know, but also kind of the consideration of function in the environment that they see, right? Oh, I'm inspired by this bathtub. How can it look in a case, you know? Oh, I'm inspired by this belt buckle. How can I make that look beautiful?
00:17:40
Speaker
I'm inspired by such and such. Certainly, when I thought about Bevel, I thought about it similarly. A lot of form, but a lot of function. I just think Cartier, he honestly has, he's going to piss a lot of people off, but he's going to have the best taste. Especially Vintas Cartier. It just spoke to me. I'll be very honest about this. Tyler's cosine on it matters.
00:18:08
Speaker
And it started to teach me something about culture and taste, which is something that I've been thinking a lot about, again, for my career for the past decade. And in this industry, which much like the one that I went into had gatekeepers that I believe didn't have as much appreciation for the culture as it should. So I felt there was an opportunity to celebrate those who have good taste
00:18:36
Speaker
kind of acquiring pieces from brands that have great taste and then acquiring the scholarship. And, you know, this is the other thing about Cartier, which is just fun, is that it doesn't have as much scholarship as the majors do. And that thrill of a new kind of education gets me going, man.
00:18:57
Speaker
What made you go, I mean, besides the design and obviously finding out about the rarity and things like that, what made you go to start there versus the usual suspects, right?
Exploring Cartier and Watch Literature
00:19:09
Speaker
A really easy way to get into Cartier and understand the brand is a simple tank Louis. And you could get that from any Arab, right, because they've been producing them for so long. But you kind of went straight for the big boys. Yeah, I think a couple, that's a great question.
00:19:25
Speaker
Thank you, Mr. Harry. I mean, when you're introduced to a Tank Normale London from 66, and then you walk into another, like a dealer for modern watches, I'm comparing that watch to everything that I see, you know? And to me, objectively, that watch is the perfect watch. So there's a high bar that I had to start to go over. I have a 16 and a half centimeter wrist. You know, I know you and I, we talk about, I have a small wrist.
00:19:55
Speaker
My website, what are you guys texting about? One of the, one of the funny things that I hear all the time from, you know, certainly a lot of deals or folks who want to kind of promote the watches that they're going to sell is like, you know, this is made for the modern wrist.
00:20:12
Speaker
And I'm like, what has happened in the past 50 years to make risks larger? You know, like, you know, folks, we're wearing sub 36 millimeter watches for as long as you know, it's from the time the industry started until recently. Sure. And you know, any of these modern watches, I think even at Cartier, they kind of skew a little bit larger than some of the vintage ones are way too big for me. So
00:20:37
Speaker
Yeah, there's the function and there's the form, but there's also the form on my wrist. I want to wear the things that I buy. That is paramount and tantamount to kind of my selectivity there. None of the other brands I think we're accommodating in that way.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah, no doubt. As a book collector, too, are there any Cartier books that are standouts for you? I mean, they're all important in my eyes, and they're all lovely, and some of them are more photo-based than information-based, but is there one that catches your attention most of the time? Oh, yeah. I mean, I have a bunch. I mean, my favorite far and away is the George Gordon book, A Century of Cartier Risk Watchers. It's one of my favorites, too. I haven't bookmarked something crazy.
00:21:19
Speaker
Yeah, everyone talks about the Tank Watch book when I have Magical Art of Cartier. It's great. That was from an anti-quorum auction from a while ago. That was just wonderful. And then I have another one about Cartier clocks and watches. So, you know, anytime, you know, I start to get introduced to, let's say a reference that I hadn't seen. I mean, these books are godsend for me and it gets really fun when
00:21:44
Speaker
Let's say I'm introduced to Sontre, for example, and it has an unusual dial. It might not be in the books, but then you see during that same era, there was a take normal within that kind of dial configuration. So then you get to, you know, asking around, what do you think? What do you see? So, you know, I'm indebted to these books. I just, you know, without them, I'd be nowhere.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah, no, they're objectively special. And at the very least, it's fun for me when I have someone come over and they see all these books out and they're like, what is all this? And I'm like, just look through this one and you'll understand. Don't even read a thing, just look through it. Totally. How long have you been collecting? That's one thing we haven't talked about. Me? I mean, seriously, I guess,
00:22:34
Speaker
within the last probably six, seven years, I would say. I definitely own and collect more books than I do watches. I have a very good amount of watches that I'm very complacent with. It's ever growing, it's ever changing. But books are something also that I'm always after and it's not just watch books either. It's interesting and out of print coffee table books.
00:22:59
Speaker
You know, there's definitely a Cartier book that I don't have, which is white Cartier Bianco. Oh yeah. I've been looking for that one forever, dude. Yeah. And I'm not buying the one on eBay for 1500 bucks. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I emailed, uh, Patrisse on it and I was like, Hey, I'm assuming since you wrote this thing that you have a couple copies laying around. Can I buy one? He's like, I can't find one anywhere. That's crazy. I don't understand it. You know, especially these days, given where the market's gone, you know, you think a rerun.
00:23:29
Speaker
These guys make a good amount of money, but alas Yeah, and the interesting part is like there's been a few additions of it because there was some things that got changed And some things that were corrected. So I'm like, okay, sell me one of the wrong ones for yeah for 200 bucks like yeah, you know the Interesting and fun part about some of these books too, especially when you start to kind of you know, get to know folks, etc
00:23:54
Speaker
It's, you know, you speak to one person and you say, Hey, I love this watch in this book. And they say, no, that's, that's fake. I speak to another person and say, no, I've seen that before. That's a good one. You know? Um, so, you know, I think the thing I love about this space is that you can make your own judgments if you know what you know, and it's never going to be a hundred percent. And I kind of like the considered risk of it all.
00:24:22
Speaker
It just makes it a lot more enjoyable. And I think because I have such a respect for it actually being an asset, right? Like where do I find value? You know, one thing that I didn't mention earlier with the kind of smaller risk thing is because so few folks like smaller watches these days, I find really, really good value in the purchases that I make. I am not buying the $300,000 watches.
00:24:49
Speaker
I am not buying the $70,000 watches, like 18 by 26 Benoit. The modern wrist doesn't want that, but I do. And that's what makes it fun. I'm with you. I mean, small watches are getting a little bit common and sought after by collectors, whether they like the size or not, they're just buying them, which, okay, I get it. That's great. I have time.
00:25:13
Speaker
You know, I'll wait I'll wait for you to be over it Yeah, but but I do love the the aspect that these dress watches that we are after and you know for the most part they are Too small for people in their own eyes, but for us they're like perfect And if you put it on the wrist and you took the gamble and bought it from a dealer From an auction and you never tried it on and you gave it a shot and you rocked it like you'd probably be pretty pretty darn happy
00:25:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's funny because I mean, most folks say that it's too small without trying it, you know, and I have folks come, let's say they come to the house or wherever or I'm out and about and they're like, Hey, can I try that watch and they try it on? And I'm like, that's a beautiful watch on you. Like, you know, they change their mind. So, you know, again, this is
00:26:03
Speaker
whole gatekeeper conversation. That's probably part two. But if you go and try it, you might like it. Yeah, no doubt. I couldn't agree more. Let's talk about Patek Philippe for a minute because that's kind of a new foray for you in your collection. And on the same side of what I loved about your Cartier collection is what I love about your Patek collection and
00:26:24
Speaker
You have this learning element and edge to your collecting philosophy with Patek that I think most would overlook, which is, let me get my hands on a few of these Calatravas to really understand why this brand is so special and where they came from. Yeah. Yeah. And specifically reference 96 and 2457, which was the reference after the 96 same size, 30 and a half millimeters. Um, and I just think, you know, I talked about my kind of take normal being the perfect watch for me.
00:26:53
Speaker
I just think the 96 is kind of the perfect watch for everybody. And it still fits within my 40s, 50s kind of criteria, which I like. Right now I have a couple, but I'm trying to acquire 96s, 24, 57s with the sweep seconds in different, beautiful, great condition configurations. One of the first ones that I got was from our friend Eric Wind. A beautiful 96 with kind of gold lettering on the Patek Philippe.
00:27:23
Speaker
It has a black dial. The subsidiary dial on that is probably one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. I remember going to WinVintage, and we talked about this when it was happening, and he added up, and I was like, man, that's a great watch, isn't it? And then a couple weeks later, it was still up. I was like, why is it still up? And then after that, it was still up, and I was like, okay, I've got to get this watch. And it's funny beforehand, I was like, Eric, you take these wonderful looking
00:27:50
Speaker
shots for your website. Can I see it in the daylight kind of thing? It gets on. Show it to me in a toilet. Yeah, exactly. He says, Tristan, this is going to be a huge step up for your entire collection. I decided to do it, and getting it in person was such a marked difference. It is a stunning, stunning, stunning watch. That set me on this train. Yeah, you have to learn about that specific reference.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah. I remember when that watch popped up and I literally texted it to you right away and you're like, I know. I was like, yeah. I mean, I was like, this just has your name all over it. Like I, I know that, you know, your focus is Cartier, but I was like, this is just something special. You really don't see the black dial options, uh, you know, in versions rather that often. And, uh, to get some from Eric is obviously special. So you know, like I, I didn't know Patek, but I trust Eric.
00:28:48
Speaker
Right. And from Eric, I got, you know, to know John from on behalf, which is like, you know, so I'm learning all this kind of wonderful information. And the other thing about like the 96 is in 2457s. I mean, you can get those at great prices for much less than, you know, what you might get a modern college job before.
The Appeal of Vintage Watches
00:29:06
Speaker
And this is where it starts to get interesting to me. Like, I'm not like, I don't know about all the reference numbers and I don't have the photographic memory to like, remember all this stuff. But like, to be a player in Patek,
00:29:18
Speaker
you know, can cost hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars that I don't have. You know what I'm saying? So like to have something that is functional, right? You talk about, you know, this is like true Bauhaus, like function and form kind of stuff. I mean, that's right up my alley, right? And someone who considered making such a simple and beautiful thing is worthy of collection. And I want a few more of them if I can find them.
00:29:46
Speaker
And the cool part about the 96 is that if you're okay making a leap and wearing that watch, there is something for everybody. There is a medal for everybody, there is a dial for everybody, there's condition for everybody. You can find them at any price point that you wanna pay. Totally, sweep seconds, subsidiary dial. It is an amazing, amazing, amazing watch.
00:30:12
Speaker
And I'm hopeful, you know, I still need to get a steel one. That's what I'm looking out for. And then also, uh, a rose with like a rose dial. I did just get a rose case that, you know, and this is where it gets like really fun because I just learned, I think we talked about this this weekend. Uh, you know, you turn it around the case and then you see this, this Hallmark and it said SNL on it. And I'm like, Oh, that's, uh, Serpico Leidenau. Right. And.
00:30:41
Speaker
It's like, oh, that's cool that the person who sold me the watch didn't even know. Now, fortunately, it came from direct from the original family, but that person had no idea. So it's like you get a little bit of history, and then I have to learn about that collaboration. And it just is really fun, really, really fun.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah, I love that watch. I obviously, as some people know, have a 37.96, which is a direct replica of the 96, just a tad bit more modern from the 90s. For the modern wrist?
00:31:20
Speaker
For the modern rest, yep. For the modern rest. And it is one of the best wearing watches and it's one that I get compliments all the time on and it's the same as the 96. And I implore everybody to give that watch a chance. It's approachable. You know, I love just like, you know, look, I mean, I have some great watches on some beautiful bracelets, right? I have, you know,
00:31:47
Speaker
You're non-everyday washes, right? But like, you know, in 96, Carla Trava, it's perfect. Like you can wear it anywhere, however you want. It's unassuming and just a delight. I couldn't agree more. So you mentioned a lot of these relationships that you fostered, you know, Harry, Eric, John. What have these relationships meant to you in terms of collecting?
00:32:09
Speaker
Well, first of all, I have to apologize because I nag each of them way too much. Um, so sorry, Eric, sorry, Harry, sorry, John. Um, I, I'm attracted to information and these are three folks that have the most information about the watches that I like. And if let's say one day.
00:32:33
Speaker
you know, hell freezes over and I start liking Rolex. But I know, I know I've got Eric Wynn, you know, and he will guide me in the right way. And I compare my experiences with them, with my experiences in these retail stores, which is just not great. You know, you're treated as the unit I found in a unit of measurement. And when I walk these doors,
00:33:01
Speaker
And, you know, sometimes I might even, you know, show, let's say, or be wearing, you know, vintage Cartier. And a lot of these folks just don't know what these watches are, or they might think that, you know, it's not real because it's not a modern watch, right, or something like that. So you think about the dearest of just education at retail. It just doesn't make for a great experience.
00:33:23
Speaker
What's particularly frustrating is we talk about some of this Gatekeeper stuff, then they come out with the limited editions, right? Some of which I like, some of which I don't. And in order to get any access to it, you have to build up your bank of modern watches, which I don't like. But I have all these vintage watches, which you would probably like, that I can't really get any access to. So it's frustrating. Man, I went into one dealer just for fun this past weekend. Well, let me give you two experiences. I went into kind of one retailer, I walked in,
00:33:53
Speaker
First of all, they only had like two watches on display, right? And then I said, all right, well, how can I learn more? And he was like, you know, you got to fill out this, this form because we need to build a relationship, you know? So email address, sure. I'll give you my email address. And I had my address. I'm like, why do you need my address? You know, and I was like, what is this relationship going to be? I said, I don't, I don't want to give you my address. And he said, well, okay, I'm sorry, but that's requirement. I left. And next day I was in New York at another retailer. I walk in.
00:34:23
Speaker
You have to stand at the podium, right? And this is like kind of the main kind of headquarters for this, this retailer. And they say, Hey, what's your name? I'm Tristan Walker. Nice to meet you. Reservation for two. Yeah, exactly. No, they said, can I get your phone number? I'm like, okay, maybe they want to text me. It's fine. Can I get your email address? Can I get your address? I'm like, I just want to walk upstairs and see if you have like a piece that I want. And then what happens next really pissed me off.
00:34:51
Speaker
He said, you know, a salesperson will kind of, you know, find you. Right. So I'm standing there right next to the podium at the front for like three minutes. And I'm like, can I just like go somewhere else? And they're like, sure. Yeah. You can go wherever you want. And I'm like, why did you force me to give you all this stuff when I could have just gone upstairs and a salesperson never found me, you know? So it's stuff like that where you ask, you know, how do I think about my relationships with the Harrys and the Eric's and the Johns? When I text them, they reply.
00:35:19
Speaker
And I do it graciously, and there's always information behind it. And I could only hope that my scholarship of these things gets to a level where I can kind of share or give back to them what they've already given to me. Yeah, and I'm assuming still no edible arrangements from these retailers after getting my address. Nothing. Well, they don't get my address, and they never will. And that is like, what a missed opportunity, you know?
Critique of the Watch Industry
00:35:47
Speaker
Yeah, that that comes even before you start to think about issues of like bias and all types of other BS, you know, but it's just frustrating. Yeah, it's it's always a missed opportunity. And it's funny that it hasn't been changed. But that's all right. We're vintage guys anyway. That's right. That's right. I love it. But before we wrap it up here, I want to talk about
00:36:09
Speaker
the similarities now in the way that you approach business and your approach collecting. You sold your company. I'm sure you're on to the next big thing. Maybe you're going to do that hair extension idea you mentioned in the past.
00:36:27
Speaker
But, you know, especially being on the board of brands like Shake Shack and Foot Locker, right? They have to open up new locations and there's a lot that goes into that. And I feel like you kind of have to have a collector's mindset to be able to stamp out multiple locations of something or multiple iterations of something and change those. Do you kind of approach business and collecting in the same way? I think there's value in being consistent.
00:36:52
Speaker
The wonderful thing I love about the ShakeShacks and the Footlockers is that they stand two feet down on values that they have. I know it's one thing folks talk about values all the time, right? Like, yeah, these are our company's values, et cetera, blah, blah, blah. But one of the great things about being on the board is that it's our job to hold them accountable to the things that they write on the websites.
00:37:15
Speaker
Footlocker and Shake Shack both, for example, 80 plus percent of the frontline fleet are employees look like me, with issues related to how you treat people and how you show up for them and issues related to training and education. This stuff matters and we can help them to be consistent. As I think about my collecting journey, and as you said, we share a lot of watches back and forth, and there are a lot of great watches.
00:37:42
Speaker
But if it's 70s Cartier, it's just not for me. Because look, I mean, if I had unlimited lots of money, maybe I'd consider it. But I'm trying to be as focused and consistent, having known what I like and what I'm standing on. So in that sense, I think consistency and purity is probably the wrong word. Consistency is a better one. Your stick-to-it-iveness, so to speak, is something that I think I've been able to or folks know about me and my business work in accordance to those three themes I
00:38:12
Speaker
think about that very much map back to my collecting. The last thing I'd say, and I think this is an important thing, this maps back to that first thing that I talked about around the criticality and cultural influence of people of color in this country. In every industry that I'm in, I look for the gatekeepers who are preventing the majority of the world who are culturally influential from truly participating. I'm going to call a spade a spade.
00:38:41
Speaker
the watch industry has not fully opened its arms wide. For an audience that has been celebrating this industry that has made watches hype, you know, that has given billions of dollars of brand awareness and kind of revenue growth to these things. Same for books and book collecting, right? I care deeply.
00:39:10
Speaker
about shaking the status quo on that because also I think it's good for everybody. It's good for us, folks who want to collect and be welcomed. It's good for entrepreneurs who see an opportunity to serve an audience that hasn't been served as well as they should have. It's good for the large incumbent companies who can make more money by being more inclusive, right? It helps us all. And this is the one thing in my life that I've known has always been win, win, win. So I want to ensure that everything that I do from my business stuff
00:39:40
Speaker
to my collecting stuff is consistent and feels like a win for all of us. Love it. Tristan, let's wrap it up here with the collector's dream rundown. I've been waiting for this.
00:39:52
Speaker
You know, Joe, but in case it's anyone's first time listening, you can answer these questions based on any of the items that you collect, even if it's, you know, board seats to books, to watches, to, you know, a bottle of bourbon that you're after. You can answer these however you see fit. Sure. All right. What's the one that got away? Unlike a lot of your previous guests,
00:40:18
Speaker
No watch has ever gotten away from me. I think I've bought every watch that I've known I've wanted. And that's hard to do, less from a financial standpoint and more from a one, as you mentioned before, consistency, but also a complacency standpoint of knowing what you want and being sure that you want the thing and being able to move forward on it, whether you have the funds or not. Totally. There are definitely some watches that like I want that
00:40:46
Speaker
it will want and afford, right? Because those are two very important things. There are certainly others that I have not acquired that I want and afford that just haven't come up because, you know, Cartier is so elusive in a lot of ways, but I bought what I've liked and I've bought what I know. And sometimes I've made a mistake or two, right? But nothing has gotten away yet. Good. Let's, let's try and keep it that way.
00:41:12
Speaker
How about the on deck circles? So what's next for you in collecting? Maybe something you're hunting or maybe a book coming up for auction, anything. I would really like a 20, a good condition, 24 57 Patek in steel with the sweep seconds. I've seen one. John had told me that they had only made like 10 or 15 of them or something like that. And they're a pretty good price. They're decent price.
00:41:41
Speaker
But the one that I saw isn't in as great a condition as I would like. So I'm still trying to determine whether or not that matters to me. But that's one that if I saw it today, I actively try to get it. Also, you've seen this watch before. And I'm not going to say who has it. But there is a Cartier Tank Normale in square with baton chapters. So these thin line chapters. And the condition on it is just perfect.
00:42:11
Speaker
This is one that could get away. So I'm hopeful, hopeful that no one finds it because I would be very sad. And I'm still trying, this is when it starts to get into the weird affordability thing. So I'm trying to be, you know, like stick to my guns on it. But that's one that I would love to have. The temptation is getting tough. It's getting tough, man. It is a beautiful watch and price aside, I think it checks a lot of boxes for sure.
00:42:40
Speaker
Alright, the unobtainable, too expensive in a museum, private collection, it's just unreachable. I've got two. One is perhaps unreachable more because you probably won't find that many. And so it's a tank asymmetric, but specifically from 1936. This just has a different size configuration to the modern ones. And you see a few different kind of case configurations or dial configurations.
00:43:08
Speaker
Uh, for that watch, I'll have either one, but I think from that 1936, 1940 period, I just, you, you talk about like, uh, you know, everyone loves the crash. Like, I don't like it as much as people like, I love that 1936 us metric. There's one, and this is museum level quality. I can't remember if I've showed this to you. I'll send you the photo after that you can share out if you need. Um, but there's a, in the George Gordon book, I'll never forget this. It's on page 94. There is a tank.
00:43:36
Speaker
square tank with kind of August like bullet lugs on the side. But in the middle of those bullets, it has hooded ornaments. Oh, interesting. This is a 1933. And I don't even I've never seen anything like this. Who knows if it's even real. I don't care. I want it. You know, to me, it was the most beautiful museum level quality watch. And it feels like it's probably a piece unique. And most particularly,
00:44:06
Speaker
If this watch were made today, to me, it would feel like hip-hop in the most beautiful sense. And I'm pretty sure I've sent you this photo. I'll send it to you after this. But I love this watch. Oh, I know. It was gold, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember. And it'd be really cool to do something special or find one of those one day. And it does seem very unique.
00:44:34
Speaker
My dream is if I ever get important enough, you know, much like folks kind of make their own kind of crashes and that sort of thing with Cartier, if I could get this made, and we should talk about the soundtrack thing too. If I can get it done similarly to how I kind of work with Harry on that soundtrack for this watch, I'd probably get rid of 90% of my collection to do that.
00:45:00
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, let's, let's talk about the century for a minute, because, you know, there's obviously modern ones, you don't really see them on bracelets, other than the vintage ones, and you had a century and if I'm not mistaken, you had a bracelet made for it to make the vintage ones.
00:45:19
Speaker
The Sainte is like the kind of peak Cartier that everyone tells you, but they're always so big for my wrist. And I never, you know, I didn't like it because it didn't, it wouldn't look good on my wrist. And I remember getting a call one day from Harry's team and he said, Tristan, you have to look at this watch. It was a 1940 Sainte with an unusual dial. So it doesn't have the Chemin de Faire and the Roman numerals, his Arabic numerals, beautiful, beautiful watch, 1940.
00:45:47
Speaker
It's a medium-sized sun tray. So it's not the small sun tray that you see. It's not the large sun tray. It's a medium, which I don't really see too much of. So it fits kind of my wrist perfectly sized. And also consider Harry's in London. I'm here, right? So it's not like I can walk to his studio and like try it on. It was on a leather bracelet. So I call Harry. This is probably the second time I'm like speaking to him in the same kind of naive, ignorant way. And I say, Harry, I've got a swatch, but can you find me the bracelet?
00:46:14
Speaker
And he's like, Tristan, Tristan, Tristan, Tristan. We cannot find the bracelet for this watch. That would be close to impossible. And I wanted to watch, this is my first watch that I wanted to buy for myself that would celebrate a milestone. It's the first thing I've ever bought for myself to celebrate a milestone. So I said, Harry, okay, cool. What if we got this on training and made a bracelet? And how I'd want it to look is similar to kind of what we see in the Tank Watch book.
00:46:44
Speaker
And we're kind of in the back. You can see the types of, uh, like fish scaled me bracelets that they've made in the past. So let's kind of pay homage to Cartier. I know you have a workshop and let's make it. And he said, great. And wonderful thing about this watch 1940, they only made eight tank watches. It was during the war years. They only made eight tank watches tank all across the entire line. Right. So from a rarity perspective, condition perspective.
00:47:12
Speaker
unusual and the ability to custom-make a fish-scale mesh bracelet. We did it. I said, I will be in London in two months. Can you do it? He said no. I said to Beth. He said, we'll do it. I went out to London and he showed me not only the watch, which floored me, but also showed me photos of the goldsmith doing it. As I talked about,
00:47:42
Speaker
you know, book binding, dyeing trade, like watchmaking, like there's kind of a rebirth of it, goldsmithing, like to find great artisans of it. It's actually really, really hard. And this goldsmith made 224 individual links to fit the mesh. It's a perfect proportions to fit my wrist. Um, beautiful engraving behind it. And that watch, you know, folks talk about the never sell watch just because it's sides of the milestone, but milestone rarity condition.
00:48:10
Speaker
my ability to actually, um, off or off on my point of view to how I think that watch could be completed. That is like my dream. Right. So if, if Cartier, if you're listening, George Gordon, page 94,
00:48:41
Speaker
buying the thing that they just put in the showcase and they just released it watches and wonders it's more about keeping the heritage alive and I think that's where they're missing so I'm gonna make sure I tag Benjamin from from Cartier Paris in this when I released this post so he can get some eyes on it good man good man which is kind of a cool synopsis to the unobtainable which we've never really had which is you wanted something that was unobtainable and you couldn't get it so you created it and
00:48:45
Speaker
let me make
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah, with respect. Yeah, with respect and design philosophy and heritage, and I think that's just really neat. Yeah, totally. The page one rewrite, so if you could collect anything besides watches and books, money, no object, what would it be? I'd probably say I love music, and I'm always struck when people have a super impressive vinyl collection.
00:49:37
Speaker
I have a vinyl collection, but it's not like, you know, the fill the room kind of vinyl collection. I would love kind of first press run vinyls of the greatest albums of all time. And I wanted to fill a room. I just love, love listening to a record on vinyl. The other thing that I would probably say, and this came from my relationship with Harry, Cardi Objadar has some of the most like delightful, cool,
00:50:07
Speaker
functional pieces. And walking into Harry's studio is like, you know, kid in a candy store kind of stuff, but I'm an adult now. You know, and it's, I mean, folks who can do that in a deep way, I'm not talking just like folks who do like the mystery clocks, which are fun and all that stuff. But, you know, he has like a cigar lighter in the form of like a street lamp. It's like so beautiful and unassuming, right? And
00:50:33
Speaker
I had to ask him every time I sat down and said something like, is this Cartier or is it not? And sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't, which was like a, just a wonderful testament to like how Cartier thought about the side, um, that fits in your lived experience. So I, it'd probably be that. Love it. How about the goat? Who do you look up to in the collecting world? For sure. Harry Fane. I mean, I gush over that guy. I mean, he, for a number of reasons. Number one, you know, he has kind of experience in the art world.
00:51:03
Speaker
Back in the 70s, he's like, I'm going to exclusively collect Cartier pieces, watches in Ojeda. I really respect folks who have a laser focus on one thing and do it with extreme excellence. It's hard enough to do that, right? Versus trying to do it across brands and types. I have to give
00:51:32
Speaker
You know, of course, like I know a lot of folks will kind of do the gold burgers and that sort of thing. Oh, look, I've turned in immense respect. But this man, Harry Fain, does it with such an energy and delight that it is infectious. I've learned a lot from him and I hope to continue to learn a lot from him. And if I ever acquire a collection that is 1% of what he's been able to amass for himself, I'll be a pretty happy person.
00:52:00
Speaker
I'm already happy. I'd be a happy, even happier person. Yeah, and I think the cool part is that there's a mutual respect on his end, too, for you as a collector. Yeah, no, I mean, he's been great to me. For an introduction into this space with someone like Harry, who has such energy and verve, and loves my own, I have to tip my hat to him.
00:52:30
Speaker
Absolutely. The hunt or the ownership? Ownership completely. I like using the things that I have. You know, I love the education. The sourcing is frustrating. I'd much rather just have the things I know I want so that I can use them. So for sure, the ownership. Love that. Most importantly, Tristan, do you feel that you were born with the collectors gene? Am I going to be the first guest to say no?
00:52:58
Speaker
No, you won't. It's the same place. I know. And I'd say it took a while for me to acquire the taste that I have to find the things that I want. You know, I wasn't born with it. I had to do the work, right? To have a philosophy around these things. And look, I mean, at some point, you know, as much as I love collecting these watches,
00:53:22
Speaker
the frequency by which I do it might slow down. But for that period, I acquired a taste for something that I didn't understand as well as I thought I did before. And that is probably something I have a gene for, the acquisition of tasting categories that delight me.
00:53:41
Speaker
Amazing. Tristan, while it's another conversation for us, I'm truly grateful for our friendship that we've made over the last few years, or year rather, and truly appreciative that I get to share one of our conversations with the listeners. So thank you so much for coming on. I can't wait to have you on again. I look forward to...
00:53:57
Speaker
more text back and forth, I'm sure, a few more by the end of the day. And I love seeing all the stuff that you've been putting in your collection. And once again, I truly appreciate you coming on today. Totally. And congratulations to you and what you're doing, man. And I'll text you later. All right, I'll talk to you soon. All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.