Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Roni Madhvani - Double Signed Watches, Piece Uniques, and Art Deco Hood Ornaments
967 Plays2 years ago
Every collector has their own style. And that couldn’t be more relevant with today’s guest, Roni Madhvani. When it comes to double signed watches from the holy trinity, or piece uniques from Cartier, Roni has found a way to differentiate himself amongst all the other collectors out there. He’s got a deliberate focus on odd case shapes and double signed dials, especially from defunct retailers. He’s been featured in numerous publications from Hodinkee, Revolution, Robb Report, and I’m thrilled to be a part of that list. Roni is the perfect example of the idea to collect for yourself, not everybody else and it was a pleasure to learn from him. Without further adieu, here it is, Roni Madhvani, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Roni's Instragram - https://www.instagram.com/roni_m_29/?hl=en
Roni's Talking Watches - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/talking-watches-with-roni-madhvani
Roni's Revolution Article - https://revolutionwatch.com/roni-madhvani-collector-extraordinaire/
Recommended
Transcript
Art on Your Wrist vs. Traditional Displays
00:00:00
Speaker
you having a piece of art on your wrist and having it with you all the time rather than hanging on the wall or whatever else you know one does with pieces of art but it's different so i think there's a functionality to the underlying appreciation and desire for art.
Introduction to Collecting and the Collector's Gene
00:00:18
Speaker
What's going on everybody and welcome to collector's gene radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening and please enjoy today's guest on collector's gene radio.
Meet Roni Medvani: Unique Watch Collector
00:00:43
Speaker
Every collector has their own style, and that couldn't be more relevant and true with today's guest, Roni Medvani.
00:00:51
Speaker
When it comes to double signed watches from the Holy Trinity or Peace Uniques from Cartier, Roni's really found a way to differentiate himself amongst all the other collectors out there. He's got a deliberate focus on odd case shapes and double signed dials, especially from defunct retailers. And he's been featured in numerous publications from Hodinke to Revolution to Rob Report, and I'm truly just thrilled to be a part of that list.
00:01:18
Speaker
Roni is the perfect example of the idea to collect for yourself and not everybody else. And to say it was a pleasure to learn from him would be an understatement. So without further ado, here it is, Roni Medvani for Collectors Dream Radio. Roni, first, I would like to thank you and welcome you for joining me on Collectors Dream Radio today. Thank you, Cameron, for having me. It's a great pleasure, and I look forward to
00:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, we've been, I guess we could call Instagram friends for quite some time now. So it's nice to finally get together since we haven't been able to do that in person. Absolutely. And it is strange with Instagram, you sort of know people all over the world and sometimes you, you know, you never meet them. And sometimes when you do meet them, it's all, it's bizarre because you kind of know them so well as well. Very true.
00:02:09
Speaker
You've actually been one of the most requested guests that I have received from listeners to be on here, so it's very exciting to have
Post-WWII Watch Passion and Joy of Collecting Art
00:02:17
Speaker
you on. Oh my gosh, I'm terribly humbled. Thank you. Thank you to all those who requested. Thank you.
00:02:23
Speaker
So for those who know you, your taste in watches is truly unlike anything that most people collect. Being that besides double signed watches, if you will, you kind of focus on art deco, avant-garde, case shapes, and lugs, and mainly from brands like Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet. Is that about right?
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah so my collection is for me what i see is basically from about nineteen forty five to nineteen sixty five which i see, in my eyes is the sort of block of watch case design in the sort of swiss valleys and i think, my rationale is look up to in the before the war you went through the great depression during the war obviously there was austerity and,
00:03:09
Speaker
People weren't looking at design or anything and then suddenly at the end of the war, expectations were unleashed and people threw the hats in the air.
00:03:18
Speaker
And everyone was free, and I think the watch brands, they weren't really brands then, were free.
Balancing Design and Practicality in Watch Collecting
00:03:24
Speaker
The people who were responsible were free to experiment and stuff, and then obviously when things got commercialized in the 70s and 80s, that sort of constrained creativity. So this period, which I focus on, is I think the best time, and one sees lovely, lovely things which I desire and have the passion for.
00:03:48
Speaker
So how long have you been collecting watches and what made you kind of get started in collecting this sort of stuff? Well, I've always had an interest in being passionate about art and arts and design and stuff. So I think the fascination of watches stems from that. And I think from a practical and rational point of view, a watch with a great design
00:04:14
Speaker
Is is like sort of you having a piece of art on your wrist and having it with you all the time rather than having hanging on the wall or Whatever else, you know one does with pieces of art, but it's kind of different So I think there's a functionality to the underlying appreciation and desire for art Do you remember the first watch that you ever bought and do you still have it? I
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So it was actually a Brahman Messier. It was a chronograph, which I probably wouldn't. I don't like so much. And I keep sort of joking. I said, well, coming from Africa, no one keeps on time. So when you have an appointment with someone, especially political persons, they keep you waiting for hours and hours. So that's where you can play with your chronograph. Other than that, it has no sort of functional value to it. I'm not attracted to them. But going back to what you asked, it was a
00:05:09
Speaker
It was a bromic chronograph. It was a princely sum for me then. I was at university. I used to go past the window every day. It was £570 or something. It took me, I think, about 18 months to gather that. I must have gone to that shop on Bond Street at least 12 times to see it. They must have been so fed up by me going in there.
00:05:32
Speaker
I mean, it's so funny, I saw, and the lady, I'll never forget, I was a French lady, and I saw her, I think about 10 years ago, working somewhere, and I went up to her, I said, I don't know, you won't remember me, but you saw me in my first watch, but yeah, and I still have that watch as well. I love it.
00:05:45
Speaker
Bowman Mercier actually made some really interesting stuff back in the day. I happen to have a new old stock, little time-only Bowman Mercier with a salmon dial and just really cool. Nothing too crazy or avant-garde, but just fun stuff. I think that we're making just as interesting stuff for all the other brands doing some time-only military style watches back then.
00:06:11
Speaker
And it's strange, this watch that I picked up, it had a sort of precedent in terms of the sort of 1940s chronographs. And I think it was based on that even in terms of the size, even the strap was a sort of fold over sort of leather one.
Roni's Collector Journey and Social Media Influence
00:06:25
Speaker
So I think, you know, there was a connection definitely to what a precursor to what I collect now in some way. Yeah, it's a good thing you don't wear it when you're waiting for meetings, just ruining the movement and getting it serviced every two weeks.
00:06:41
Speaker
No, absolutely. Is there a specific period of time that watches like this were being created? I know you mentioned the period in which you collect, but if you put all of them in a photo, they all look like they could be from the same era. Are there ones that you're finding that are outside of the range from where you collect?
00:07:02
Speaker
I think it's strange. I've been at it for 35 odd years and obviously in the first decade and a half, I didn't have the means to be able to buy watches. One just looked at them and admired them. I was buying on eBay for $200 and $300, which are actually quite lovely pieces.
00:07:22
Speaker
When I look at them now, one can tell, I think, if you had a cluster of watches, that these were within a few years' range. These came from this period or this period. It's just sort of, I think, an instinct. One develops from it. From that aspect, one can tell. I think, again, with maturity as a collector, you tend to
00:07:50
Speaker
Focus and stay within a certain comfort zone but for sure i mean i've been in terms of not only in terms of design but also in terms of brand i hate anything to do with the seventies but slowly it's. I think with the influence of instagram and certain collectors you start seeing things and you suddenly develop a sense of.
00:08:12
Speaker
Appreciation and that's really a two levels one is oh look it's a nice watch but whether you'd like to buy it and wear it that's a different thing but it's a you know i think.
Independent Watch Brands and Avant-Garde Designs
00:08:23
Speaker
What social media and access to the internet is done is open up one's traditional way of thinking and boundaries to just do you want to just see and appreciate what else is out there so i think that's a good thing.
00:08:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And when it comes to Patek collecting, there's a specific designer you love. Can you tell us a little bit about that designer and what about these specific designs speak to you the most?
00:08:52
Speaker
So Joubert was from Geneva, I think he was employed at the age of a young age, I think 19 or something by Paris Philippe and actually let him experiment and he produced four, he actually produced five watches, but everyone sort of, if you read about it, it's like they say it's four, but there was one which is a one-off. But he did some amazing designs in terms of just designing on paper as well. And then I'm talking of men's watches in terms of the four.
00:09:20
Speaker
So they were avant-garde for the time and reflected that period of time, in terms of sculpture from Mondrian and stuff. So I think that's really where the interest, I developed the interest, and I saw one in an old watch catalogue from, I don't know, the late 90s. I think the precursor to Antiquorum was called Friedman, Habsburg, and something. So that caught my eye, and I think I was sort of lusting after that.
00:09:47
Speaker
Decade over a decade till I could afford one. And it's strange, I've managed to gather a few of them. And just before COVID, I thought it would be nice to have him sign the extract from the archives, which is the bit of paper that powerfully give you for vintage watches for those who are not.
00:10:06
Speaker
And I sent it to, I sent all the extracts for the watches that I have, which he had designed to him. And of course, I think being old school, he sort of wrote back and says, well, I think I'll have to get permission from the Stearns whether I can sign on their extracts.
00:10:23
Speaker
It's not theirs, this is my piece of paper. Anyway, I've kept that in all the correspondence. It's actually lovely. It forms, I think, part of the story of the watches and to have the extracts signed by him and so on. Sadly, he passed away. I think it was last year. That must have been pretty special for you. I think so, yes, and it sort of opened up.
00:10:45
Speaker
A lot, I mean, then, you know, one, again, through access to the information that's available, which wouldn't have been possible earlier. You know, he designed, when he left them, he set up his own, and his primary business was jewelry. And he even had a shop in New York, which was open until three years ago. And his jewelry was amazing. And he also designed watches with his own sort of brand. And I've managed to find two of those.
Evolving Tastes and Modern Watch Market Concerns
00:11:13
Speaker
And so it's lovely. I think if one's able to pursue one's passion, it's a wonderful thing. I'm assuming that production numbers on a lot of these watches must have been fairly low because, as you said, they weren't really commercially or serially produced back then.
00:11:31
Speaker
Well, there's two sort of references. I don't want to be too nerdy. There's three, four, two, four, and three, four, two, two. Those were produced quite a few. I mean, no one knows in terms of numbers from pedophilic. Some say 24, some say 48. It's somewhere between that number for those two models. And then there are various, you know, in terms of metals and stuff. And obviously you have the yellow gold, rose gold, and then platinum and the platinum being the rarest.
00:11:57
Speaker
And then the variations in the dial types and stuff, but this is getting probably too nerdy for everyone but keep it up. And then the other two were even rare and I think there was only six or eight produced and there's one I think there's only six and that's one which I don't have and when it's come up I've not been able to afford it so it's on my sort of dream list of watches.
00:12:22
Speaker
One thing I've noticed about your collection versus a lot of others, including mine, is that your tastes really haven't changed too much. I mean, do you still find yourself falling in love with the same watches that you've been collecting? Because for me, as a new collector, if you will, my tastes are constantly changing. I think for the first 10, 15 years, they did change. And I think until you find your feet in terms of what
00:12:53
Speaker
what draws you and what you're in love with, I think they do change. And then you stabilize and you focus and it's all about getting different versions or getting better examples. But for sure, what I collected in the beginning, which was a hodgepodge of various things, it certainly evolved from that. One thing we don't really see in your collection are watches on bracelets. Is there a reason for that?
00:13:21
Speaker
I've never really liked them. I mean, I've again, of late, I've been attracted. I bought one or two actually, but they're too big and I have to resize them. And I think, well, is it correct to go and, you know, cut a bracelet that's, whatever, watch this 80 years old? Is that a moral thing as a watch collector? As long as you enjoy it, it doesn't matter.
00:13:46
Speaker
I guess so, but I just kind of, I don't know, it's something I haven't got to terms with and do, but generally I don't like wearing, I find them too sort of flashy and stuff, but they're some braces I have been attracted to, I must say. What about some of the old tanks and trays that came on the platinum brick bracelets and stuff like that? Oh, sure. I mean, I think I'd have to sell the wife and child for that, but I don't know.
00:14:16
Speaker
They're not going to come this lifetime. I think doing that is easier than finding one. Yeah. And Vegas was cruel to me when I went recently, so there's no chance at all of getting something like that. So maybe in the dreams, yes, I'd wear it for sure. Did you hit Blackjack? Oh, yes. Blackjack mainly. And then there were let go. Oh, yeah, every little get you. Yeah. Are there any modern watches that attract you?
00:14:45
Speaker
A lot of the independent brands do, but I'll tell you, I'll be honest with you, and I know also there's this sort of paradigm change. Like 10 years ago, it was not correct to talk about price and stuff, and now everyone is all about price. But I think some of the independents, I think I just find very pricey.
00:15:03
Speaker
And I don't want to buy a watch where should I decide to, you know, I don't like it or I don't want it. I'm going to lose my shirt and lose half the money. So that's what puts me off. But again, I think this has changed, you know, like, for example, John and stuff. But again, it's now unaffordable anyway, so that doesn't arise. But that's my fear. But also there are a lot of independent watchmakers
00:15:28
Speaker
You know who i think you know offer have some amazing stuff in terms of creativity and stuff and i've certainly been. I feel the most contact me to get my opinion and it's lovely to be involved and i think for sure i'd be taking the plunge with those and then.
00:15:45
Speaker
And then we also live in difficult times where in many cities you can't even wear any fancy watch so you have a range of what i think are affordable watches. You don't have any further than marie baltic so i think these are great watches for even for someone just entering here below thousand dollars and they make wonderful watches.
00:16:08
Speaker
Absolutely. And a big part of your collection is Cartier, but a lot of them are also modern Cartier that have been one off pieces for you. Are you attracted to any of the newer watches that Cartier has put out? Yeah, for sure.
Custom Cartier Watches and Collector Relationships
00:16:26
Speaker
I think for me, Cartier, you know, as a brand,
00:16:29
Speaker
sort of means and stands for design. And I think that's from the very inception, be it watches or jewelry or anything, it's all about design. So I think that aspect of the DNA sort of carried through. I did buy a lot of vintage Cartier and also before Richemont took over, there were a few which I bought.
00:16:52
Speaker
When Richemont took over, they basically didn't want to entertain custom watches and they priced them so crazy. In my mind, Cartier was like the family jewelers you went in and you had a couple.
00:17:11
Speaker
coffee and natted with the guy and stuff and that all that didn't exist anymore. And then about three, four years ago, I met someone, a lady called Philippa at Bond Street, and she sort of was totally different. And I think the thinking in the company sort of changed.
00:17:29
Speaker
where they decided to offer custom pieces and again started my romance with the brand. In terms of custom pieces, there's two levels at which everyone's doing the same variant with different colored dials. The fonts and stuff on the dial remain the same, but there's variations in the hands or the color of the dial.
00:17:53
Speaker
of the crown but they've been very kind to me and let me do designs which are not the usual but based obviously on the DNA of the brand and that's fun because you got to research that and stuff so that's been wonderful but of late I must say it's kind of been killed by the sheer volume that they've gone for.
00:18:14
Speaker
In terms of producing custom pieces like for example I had there again I was blessed to have the opportunity of doing one of the first custom crashes and I had a black dial one but it's such a beautiful watch but then
00:18:31
Speaker
they've gone overboard and i know i understand now and again from other people on social media they're doing like three hundred custom car to me if i'd been told that in the big i don't think to be honest i would have done it, and then with a lot of my other pieces i complain what gentleman in london copy the same,
00:18:52
Speaker
sort of dial design in actually nineteen ninety nine and he said he saw it in the film which is bullshit but so i had a bit of a little bit annoyed with that so i went to kartia and they're responsible if you don't want anyone to copy your designs just wear it in your living room and that really pissed me off and i think.
00:19:15
Speaker
It's a little frustrating. Yeah, that is. Because I think when someone, you know, has a custom piece, part of it is the exclusivity is what we're looking for. It certainly is for me. And it's not, you know, I don't want to be, I don't, you know, I don't own an authorless because I don't want to go out for dinner and see 10 others wearing it. It's all about having something that's individual, personal, and sort of exclusive. But if every man and his dog is going to have one, well, what's the point?
00:19:44
Speaker
Absolutely. It certainly made me rethink this whole Cartier thing and I think it's sad because I think the brand's grown phenomenally in the last three, four years. There's been tremendous interest in it and also I think they're not handling custom. I mean with the recent thing over a certain very desirable watch like the Crash, the Pebble,
00:20:05
Speaker
I don't think they've handled it as well as they should have. You don't tell collectors that you're not spending enough money. There's blighter ways and more humble ways to communicate to people. And I know many friends who've been pissed off and have just walked away. Yeah. I mean, when when someone like you is going to a Maison like that and spending the money to have something custom made, which is above and beyond the cost as if it was serially produced.
00:20:33
Speaker
Well, I don't think it's sort of a cost issue. I mean, they're very reasonable in terms of the custom piece of 10, 15 cent more than the standard pieces. So that's not the issue. But it is just the way how you manage customer expectations, which has been my sort of message to them when they have been willing to listen, for example, over the pebble. You know, I was always told, oh, you'll be one of the first pieces of a passionate about it. You'll get one. I was even invited to the launch in Geneva the night before the grand reveal.
00:21:03
Speaker
I asked, well, when would I get mine? And I said, well, you're not getting one. And that really pissed me off because, A, why do you take me there? And then lead me to think I'm getting one, then tell me the night before I'm not getting one. So anyway, they had a change in mind and I was blessed and I'm thankful and grateful. And I don't want to sound sort of ungrateful that they did give me one, but it kind of left a bit of a sad taste, I think. How are you liking the pebble?
00:21:30
Speaker
I love it, it's a beautiful watch. It really is stunning. It's up my alley totally. It's so lovely. Yeah, I think they did a great job with it. I was happy that they didn't go any bigger than they did. Yeah, I mean, that's always the fear. When brands get stuff from the past and they say, well, we don't want to do the same thing, which I don't understand why. If it was good in the first instance, what is the need to make it bigger or change it a little bit? I think this has to do with corporate egos.
00:22:01
Speaker
And everyone would say I was behind it and leave them all there and say, well, I can use the same thing from before. So you're primarily based in Uganda, which means you pretty much have to travel to pick up any watch that you purchase. I'm assuming you're not getting FedEx overnight there. So does that affect the purchases you make
Sourcing Watches and Community Engagement
00:22:25
Speaker
or is that kind of the protocol for you now?
00:22:27
Speaker
No, I think it's the protocol. I mean, I've sort of always traveled and stuff. I mean, what has changed is the internet and the reliability of the internet in Africa, for example, where you can see things. I mean, when it first started and before, when there was no access, you know, you couldn't bid by phone because the phone line may be cut off in between. So that was out and you got your catalogs probably two months
00:22:55
Speaker
after the auction. So it was a struggle. But these days, obviously, you can it's everything's done online and stuff. So it certainly made it easy. And I think for me, that whole experience of going to, you know, to collect the watch and meet the people who sold it to you is part of it. And I'd even go as far as I think in the last year or so to the excitement of
00:23:18
Speaker
Owning a watch is obviously there but it's diminished and what's more important i think for me is the enjoyment i derive from looking for the watch and what that journey entails the people you meet. To learn more about a particular watch if it's got a history to it that has more meaning than the acquisition of the watch so i know it probably sounds bizarre but this is where i reached i think.
00:23:43
Speaker
You also often post on your Instagram stories, kind of asking the community to help you find maybe something specific that you're looking for. Does that ever come to fruition? Oh, absolutely. And each sort of, as it is, for me, each watch means something special. And for example, if it's gone engraving, and I remember like 20 years ago, they had engraving, even myself, no one would want to touch the watch. But for me, it's even more special now. And then to know who that person is,
00:24:13
Speaker
and just to learn more. And when you do find out, an example would be there's a Vacheron, which is a really unusually shaped one. And I remember a person who wanted to add off 1954, I don't know what the date was, I can't remember. And I found out that this was definitely a man's wash. It had Dolly on it.
00:24:36
Speaker
to Dolly or whatever, 1954. And to have a distinctively man's watch with a name called Dolly, I thought that's odd and kind of unusual. And I posted it, and a gentleman in New York, who's actually a friend of mine, he turned around and he says, well, I knew of this person. And he was actually a Jewish gentleman from Austria. And he migrated. He fled Austria just before the war in 1937. And he became a jeweler on 47th Street. And obviously being called Adolf was not
00:25:06
Speaker
Okay. And he became known as Dolly. And that sold the sort of mystery for me of that watch. And it makes it even more special. Amazing. You also love to collect a lot of the same watches, but in several medals. Has that kind of become a part of your collecting journey to source the same model in all the medals it was made in? I think that's a trait amongst collectors, isn't it? I mean, we have sort of rock, paper, scissors of yellow gold, rose gold,
00:25:36
Speaker
platinum and steel. So that's there for sure. And then sort of another layer to that is condition. If one finds something in a better condition, you will try and exchange or get rid of the lesser one and get the better one. So that's very much. And then for me, it's also been, as you mentioned earlier, sort of double signed dials. That's been another sort of fascination, for example, with vintage paddocks and what
00:26:06
Speaker
So the attraction for me is that the retailer is no longer in existence or sort of from South America. I think it has an exotic twang to it to say it came from Caracas or it came from Havana or from Peru or from Lima or
Rarity, Condition, and Financial Value in Collecting
00:26:22
Speaker
wherever. So I think the fun of it really. Yeah, it's nice hearing you didn't come from Geneva or any of these other big hubs. Yeah, you can get the sort of boring retailers.
00:26:35
Speaker
or whatever, they're quite common, but the exotic ones make it more special, I think. Since there's limited opportunities to purchase these watches that you collect specifically, what attributes are you looking for when you find something that catches your eye? Are you okay if the case has been a little polished, or does the dial need to be perfect? Obviously, when all the attributes align, that's the best case, but what do you ultimately care about?
00:27:05
Speaker
Check it obviously having overcome the first sort of thing on this is the design whether it's attractive or not then I think condition plays a big part but I think it's when you're when you're looking for such watches which are very rare and don't come on the market I think sometimes you do need to compromise but not to an extent because at the back of my mind is I think they do they do cost money.
00:27:30
Speaker
And I'm conscious of that. My background is we were thrown out of Uganda as a community a few decades ago. And I don't want to be in a situation where if that were ever to happen and, God forbid, I have to sell off everything, and I don't get back my money. So I've put a large part of my savings into watches, and I'm conscious of that. So if you do buy
00:27:54
Speaker
What is where you've compromised on for example the quality is going to be tough to sell and I don't want to be in that situation so that that's at the back of my mind as well do you have a story that sticks out of a Finding a specific watch that you were looking for for a long time and then ultimately acquiring it
00:28:13
Speaker
The most one I've always mentioned is the one I acquired from Jason Singer, who I think is one of my idols. Also a neighbor of mine. Oh, really? Okay. But I think he's such a lovely and cool guy. To say it quickly, I think a lot of people may have heard of it. Basically, there was a watch I was looking for.
00:28:35
Speaker
which has lugs, which are like the devil's horns. And I was looking for it. This is pre-Instagram, when all the forums, I post like a madman every day, I'm looking for it, looking for it for 10, 15 years. And it came up for auction, and there was a gentleman, and a quorum called Charles Tell, and he sort of told me, oh, he's come up for auction. These were days I couldn't, again, bid on the phone, because the phone lines were so unreliable.
00:28:59
Speaker
I put in a fixed price bid and I lost it. That was the end of that. I said, well, I'm never going to find that watch again. Then Jason was reading these forums and he saw all my posts. Then he contacted me through Charles and said, look, I'd like to offer this guy in Africa the watch at the price I bought it. I thought that was so amazing.
00:29:22
Speaker
that someone so big as this would even consider something so gracious and kind. And that's how I came to have that watch. And it's funny, Jason, I've met him now two, three times. We're always in touch and I'm always in awe of him. But I was at JFK.
00:29:39
Speaker
and I think he was flying to Phoenix or wherever it is and I was flying back towards home and the gates were nearby and he said, oh, I think I posted something and he says, well, I'm at the airport and I rushed to see him at the gate knowing my daughters and she said, oh, you're crazy. You're going to miss the flight. I said, I've got to see this guy. And then we've obviously met a couple of times after that. But that's the story of that work show.
Interest in Smaller Watches and Collection Management
00:30:04
Speaker
So the watches that you collect are not for everybody, right? It's, it's no doubt that you have your own individual, unique taste. Do you ever benefit from this when it comes to price, for example, the same way that someone would benefit from buying, you know, like a smaller case watch or something that's not for everybody? Well, I think it has its advantages, but I think more and more, and one of the things that gives me great pleasure is that when I, people contact me, they kind of open their eyes that look,
00:30:32
Speaker
You can find smaller watches that are beautifully designed and stuff and they're willing to wear. It doesn't have to be some drug dealer type great big thing on your wrist. I think that I've got anything against drug dealers but you know what I'm saying with kind of big watches but so I think people you know if you if you see as I said earlier that just looking at
00:30:54
Speaker
Watches from the seventies kind of developed an interest in my mind so i'm sure when people see these kind of smaller. More unique watches yes i'm certainly seeing more and it's reflected in terms of what's available in the pricing i mean before covered the year before two years i found products are very expensive. Are to acquire and they weren't many on the market yes the supplies try not to be like such as myself will buy and we're not gonna sell ever.
00:31:22
Speaker
And so there's a limited supply. And I started looking at Audemars Piguet from the 60s, 50s, 60s. And you could buy them at $2,000, $3,000. Really nice, lovely watches. And then suddenly these watches today are now $6,000, $7,000, $8,000. So it seems that more people have developed an interest, which is great.
00:31:43
Speaker
When you started collecting watches, did you ever dream that you would amass the collection that you've amassed and have all these, you know, piece uniques and all that sort of stuff? Was that a goal that you ever dreamt of? No, never. It just, it just so happens. You sit back and reflect, Oh my God. And the question like, you know, when you go to the bank safe and you look and stuff, and the strange part is I know in my head what I have.
00:32:10
Speaker
Um, but where they are and stuff. And sometimes I can't find them. I've hidden them in a shirt pocket. I can't find it. I'll spend like four days frantically looking for, for a watch or something. So actually my daughter's been, uh,
00:32:27
Speaker
I've been threatening to write a book, but I'm just so lazy and then suddenly said, well, we'll write it for you. And for me, if I'm doing a book, I don't want it to be about my ego to do a fancy coffee table book, which is hundreds of dollars. That's pointless. If I do, but I want it to be affordable. And in my mind, that's below 100 bucks.
00:32:47
Speaker
which can inspire people to collect the same genre watches, but that means I'd have to do it myself. I'm too lazy to do it. My daughter's working on a website for me where at least that's the first stage of compiling what I have and putting it together rather than this flick, flick, flick of Instagram with these pictures. So I hope that will be a precursor to a book eventually. That's amazing. Is that going to be ready soon?
00:33:15
Speaker
The website where she's done it, and again, she keeps hounding me every other day. When are you doing your bit, which is writing a little bit. I just can't be bothered. I will do it. Yeah, you're too busy finding watches in shirt pockets. Yeah, and it's strange. I think my attention span is of a flea now. I think it's this whole Instagram. We all just keep flicking and no one reads anything. I used to read like three, four books.
00:33:44
Speaker
Uh in a month, you know, and I still have great enjoyment reading like I still keep buying books You know that one day i'll go back to reading books, but I just don't do it It's it's kind of that part of it's quite uh sad I think yeah, there's there's a lot of uh shiny objects in front of us. Yeah Is there any brands that you admire but you don't really collect and um, I look I I think uh
00:34:10
Speaker
The ability to just learn more, I think, for example, I have a couple. But I've been, some of the collectors have linked me to, for example, WhatsApp group where they chat. And it's such a wonderful thing to learn from other people and acquire more knowledge. And I've learned, for example, the brand itself is very supportive to the collectors of its brand in terms of the vintage pieces and stuff.
00:34:37
Speaker
Longine is one, and I have a few friends who collect them, and just seeing that and learning from them. JLC is another. I was invited by them two weeks ago to go to Geneva, and they've launched a book on their historic pieces. I wasn't aware, and obviously one knows of it and has a few pieces.
00:35:00
Speaker
the depth of it and again to the for me the big thing was to meet the other collectors and to learn from them this is this ability to learn from other people is just so great i think.
Artistic Appeal of Car Mascots and Hood Ornaments
00:35:13
Speaker
Yeah the long jean heritage department is great too.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, they're part of this for when you see their responses and somebody can imagine some of these other brands, you know, if you ask them something, but you never know, you never know anything. Yeah, God forbid they respond to your email. Well, that's another story for another day.
00:35:36
Speaker
So let's talk cars for a sec because it's no doubt that you love cars you and I have chatted about a few times. We've talked Porsche quite a bit, but you also like to collect car mascots and hood ornaments. How'd you get into these?
00:35:52
Speaker
Again, the underlying thing is art, and for me, hood ornaments, in American, it's hood ornaments, by the way, it's car mascots, I guess. For me, I see them as sculptures, mini sculptures, and they're so beautiful, especially the French ones made in the 20s and 30s. I don't see it as a connection so much with cars. Obviously, they were made for putting on cars, but for me, they're pieces of art, and they don't take up
00:36:21
Speaker
too much space and they're affordable. That's the attraction, really. Yeah, I know that they're amazing. And there's been some great auctions that kind of stick strictly to hood ornaments. But are you collecting ones that are made out of silver? I know some have been remade out of bronze and glass from brands like Lalique. For me, again, I go with what draws my heart. In terms of the material, not so much. But in terms of what they are, I love figurative ones.
00:36:51
Speaker
women, nudes, this kind of stuff, and things that have an underlying meaning that a lot will produce sort of after the war, during the war, which were very deeply symbolic in what they were trying to communicate. So this is the attraction, really. And then obviously, within an overall genre, the art deco style is another sort of attraction.
00:37:15
Speaker
Sure. Are you, are you fond of all brands of these old hood ornaments? Are you sticking to things more like, you know, like the spirit of ecstasy from Rolls Royce? Well, no, I think it's anything that appeals to me, but there's certain, uh, certain sculptures, some good guys who actually made them and I was a guy called Bazaar. I think his work, which is very art deco and stuff. So you tend to sort of be steered towards, pardon the pun, towards a certain direction. Yeah.
00:37:47
Speaker
Are there specific court ornaments that you'd love to add to your collection one day? The guru of it is a Frenchman called Michael Legrand, and he's published, I think, four or five books. If one's interested in this, I'd recommend getting hold of his books. He's on Instagram.
00:38:08
Speaker
His English isn't great, but his books are wonderful and they're reasonable. And that's a good starting point, just to see what's out there and learn more and then develop and take the journey from there. All right, Ronnie, let's finish up here with the collector's gene rundown. Sound good? Yep. Go ahead. All right. What's the one that got away?
00:38:29
Speaker
There was a restaurant with this beautiful enamel dial of a twin-tailed mermaid from 1953. This was offered to me 30 years ago by a French dealer who used to live in Hong Kong. I didn't have the money at that time. It was, I think, $30,000 or something. He said, well, if you're not going to take it, I'm going to
00:38:53
Speaker
put in an auction and came up at Bonham's. Again, I did put a miserably low bid, and of course I didn't get anywhere for crazy money, but that opportunity, I lost that. But the effigy of it was from sort of a French mythology of a 15th century mermaid who sort of symbolized clean water and who was the guardian of clean water and the sort of bearer of ink. But it was such a beautiful enamel. And the case itself,
00:39:21
Speaker
the work on the case, that was definitely one. I think Vacheron, I don't know how many were made, but Vacheron have one, and the one that I missed out, I don't know whether I managed out.
Future Aspirations and Diverse Collecting Interests
00:39:33
Speaker
So you know two, and one is with Vacheron in the heritage collection, I guess, or in the museum for them? Yeah. Got it. How about the on-deck circle? So what's next for you in your collecting?
00:39:47
Speaker
Um, I think, uh, the sort of vintage JLC, um, and Longines, I think, uh, going to that, I'm being steered towards that, but I'll continue with what I've been collecting, which is the vintage paddocks and Vacheron Audemars and Cartier for sure. And besides the Vacheron you just mentioned, what's another one that's unobtainable for you? Well, I see it in Toucault. They're sort of ones which I dream about, which I will never be able to afford.
00:40:17
Speaker
Um, like 24 99 or, uh, so the, the, the, the repeater from pack of 34, uh, I think I'm getting 34 73. I'm getting older. Like before, you know, all these reference numbers and diminishing with age slowly. Add a tab to your website of just all the things that you want. Yeah. Well, we can dream, isn't it? Um, so what watches like that and I know it's like the tropical dial, uh, paddocks.
00:40:45
Speaker
I think these are such beautiful watches. I remember seeing at auction previews and stuff, but they're not going to be in my reach, as I said, in this lifetime. So those are the ones that are in terms of what's possibly attaining. I mean, there's always stuff that comes up. And I think one of the great things of Instagram, besides meeting people and learning more, is that I get offered and you wake up in the morning and the
00:41:14
Speaker
private mail to just get a mail someone saying, well, I've got this watching it in my family. And would you be interested in buying it? So this this is stuff of dreams for me. Absolutely. All right. Page one rewrite. So if you could collect one thing besides watches and hood ornaments, what would it be? I think I'm intrinsically a hoarder. So anything nice I keep buying and I, you know, I'll keep on gathering. It doesn't whether it's
00:41:43
Speaker
you know, vintage photo frames, flocks, you name it. I collect contemporary art from Africa, from India, again, probably based on my heritage, Art Deco sculpture. There's about three or four artists. There's no end to it. If my resources were sort of infinite, I'd just be having a ball of the time. Shopping all day. Absolutely. That would be my dream life, I think. Yeah, I think for a lot of us for sure. Yeah.
00:42:13
Speaker
How about the goat? So who do you look up to in the collecting world? I'm going to be sort of odd and say it's really other collectors. Obviously there's Auro, Jason, and then many others who are not sort of public. But seriously, I think it's just rank and file collectors, such as myself, and just to learn from them and see what they have. And it is great pleasure to just meet people and learn more about them and beyond just watches. This is what
00:42:42
Speaker
I love them. All these are goats for me. The hunt or the ownership? You answered it earlier, but we'll ask it again. The hunt. It is the best part. Yeah, absolutely. Wearing a watch is fun.
00:42:57
Speaker
Making that transaction and finding the thing that you're looking for to me. And if that watch has a story, it means more. And I'd link every watch to a story. If it doesn't have one, I don't feel emotionally so deeply connected to it. Absolutely. Most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene? Well, I'm a hoarder, so yes.
00:43:24
Speaker
Amazing. Ronnie, thank you so much for coming on and thank you for all the information that you put out for all of us, other collectors and all your photos and your willingness to chat and share everything. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure being with you. We'll meet up in New York next time. Absolutely. We'll go for a beer or pizza or fried chicken. You got it. Come to Arizona and visit Jason and I anytime. Sure. I look forward to it. Thank you.
00:43:55
Speaker
Alright, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.