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The Yonaguni Submarine Ruins - Ep 141
1.6k Plays6 months ago
Deep below the waves in southern Japan, surrounded in mystery and intrigue, there lies a pile of stones. But wait, is this just any pile of stones? The answer is yes, it is just any pile of stones.
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- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/pseudo/141
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Transcript
Introduction to Pseudo-Archaeology
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You are now entering the pseudo-archaeology podcast, a show that uncovers what's fact, what's fake, and what's fun in the crazy world of pseudo-archaeology.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the pseudo archaeology podcast episode 141. I am your host, Dr. Andrew Kinkela.
Are the Yonaguni Ruins Significant?
00:00:31
Speaker
And tonight, the Yonaguni submarine ruins. Are they just a pile of stones or something more? They're just a pile of stones.
00:00:50
Speaker
All right, so here I am. Early in the morning now, shockingly, so I guess at the beginning of this one, I said tonight just for show, dude, sad, you know, I can't even be honest with you guys, just. As always, I have to just start with a blanket apology. So.
00:01:14
Speaker
I was thinking, you know, for this this week, as I often do, like, what can I do? What should I do? And actually, I had a lot of ideas in terms of themes and stuff. I got a lot. I realize every so often that there are just these.
00:01:30
Speaker
basic pseudo-archaeology stories. And it's funny as I go through this, you guys, I kind of live and learn with you. I'm like, man, there's a lot of these stories and ones that you just think of as kind of bedrock pseudo-archaeology stories or stories that have just been around, that have just continued to exist. So as I was thinking about what to do, I was like, you know,
00:01:57
Speaker
What about that like underwater Japanese one that that like those like underwater stones in Japan? Now, this is one the the Yonaguni submarine ruins or they're also called the Yonaguni Monument. It's just basically a I know I know shocker. I'm going to I'm going to ruin my story. It's just a geologic formation of stones underneath the ocean in southern Japan. Thank very much. It's fine to turn off now.
00:02:27
Speaker
But that one had haunted me for a long time because I remember I a long time ago, as we're going to see the the stones were sort of. First reported, you could say, basically a guy scuba diving saw these blocky looking square stones and was like, hey, are those manmade?
00:02:53
Speaker
And he kind of told another guy and so on and so forth. And this happened in 1986. And so in 1986, I would have turned 14. And I think this story was picked up fairly soon after, as they do. You know, if you think of like the recent Mexican alien, you know, these things.
00:03:14
Speaker
part of their history is they kind of make a big splash in the media and then they kind of and then they sort of sit in the back burner kind of forever.
Fascination with Pseudo-Archaeology
00:03:24
Speaker
You know what I mean? They do their big splash moment because even in 1986, the various media outlets want their want their clicks, you know, they want eyes on this stuff. So they
00:03:36
Speaker
These stories are just kind of the dopey stories of the week. So anyway, I remember being a teenager and hearing about this and you have to realize this is before I became an archaeologist. This is this is before I became the superhero that I am today, friends, when I was just a mild mannered citizen.
00:03:56
Speaker
I always had a scientific brain though, but as I've said in the past, I always liked these pseudo-archaeology stories. Again, when I was a kid, I loved the show in search of, which is really the equivalent of ancient aliens for today. Like I just, I dug those shows and there's still a portion of me that loves the storytelling aspect and the science fiction aspect. I'm a huge science fiction fan, but anyway.
00:04:20
Speaker
I remember hearing this thing about these stones underneath the water in Japan and I saw some video footage, you know, as a teenager. And I'm like, even at the time, I was like. Yeah, that's nothing, you know, and it's just so obviously not anything at all. But as I was thinking about this and I'm like, I'm like, how do I even make a story out of this? Like, what's there really to say? I will say this. I had this like I had this epiphany.
00:04:51
Speaker
where the gods came to me, friends, as if in a fever dream. And they said, Andrew. And I said, yes. And they said, isn't it interesting that these stories in pseudo-archaeology often come in twos? And I was like, yes, gods, you're right.
00:05:20
Speaker
What do I mean by that? I've noticed recently in doing these things that a lot of times you have a main stupid story.
00:05:29
Speaker
but then not to be outdone, you'll have this like secondary, even stupider story, but that's based on the same premise. And what I'm talking about, I recently did a podcast on Mu,
The Myth of Mu and Atlantis
00:05:44
Speaker
right? The island nation of Mu in the Pacific and Mu is obviously a bastardization of the Atlantis story, right? So it's like,
00:05:53
Speaker
Atlantis is the main story, right? Atlantis is the main fake story where there's this island in the Mediterranean, you know, or and or they kind of relate it out into the Atlantic. And then it's, of course, not to be outdone. We take this same premise and we're like, but what about in the Pacific? And then you have Moo, which is even stupider. Right. And so that kind of thing.
00:06:19
Speaker
I've noticed in pseudo-archaeology, right, where they take this, there's this one main story and then they just, not to be outdone, they kind of just re, they re-soul it, they re-shoe it. And the second story, of course, will be much newer. So here,
00:06:33
Speaker
This story as we get into it, of course, reminds anyone of the Bimini Road, the awful, awful Bimini Road, which which I realized I've never done. I've never done a podcast on it solely and I probably should, but I did talk about it. I think I was thinking back and I think it was the episode I did where I went through Graham Hancock's ancient apocalypse because on that Netflix show, he talks about the Bimini Road.
00:07:01
Speaker
And just to remind everyone, the Bimini Road is otherwise known as the quote unquote stones of Atlantis, but it's in Bermuda and it's and it's relatively shallow water. I think it's 20 feet deep or something like that.
00:07:13
Speaker
And these are those large, square, very square kind of pillow shaped stones that are all in a line. And they are a geological formation, right? You can find these anywhere. You can find them underwater. You can find them above water. But the Bimney Road is sort of the main pseudo-archaeology story on fake geological, well, real geological formations that have nothing to do with humans.
00:07:37
Speaker
the main story on real geological formations that are said to be related to humans, but they're not right. So that's the setup and the Bimini roads been with us for a while now not to be out done. We got to put one over in Japan. So we have like our secondary sad, you know, lower ranking Xerox copy. And that's what
00:08:05
Speaker
the Yanaguni submarine ruins ultimately are. And you know, I feel like just titling it, Yanaguni submarine ruins.
00:08:16
Speaker
is clickbait falsehoods right there. And I'm sorry, friends, for even titling at that, even though that's the actual title of what it's called. Again, it is also called the Yannick Cooney Monument. But submarine ruins, you know, you're going to go with that when you when you originally listened to the story, you're like, oh, wait, isn't is it a sunken submarine? No, it's not because, you know, that would be cool. When we come back.
00:08:45
Speaker
A deeper dive into the Yanaguni ruins. Hello and welcome back to the pseudo archaeology podcast, episode 141, and we have been discussing the Yanaguni submarine ruins.
00:09:06
Speaker
But let's be honest, we haven't even really been discussing them. We have just been hearing me bitch and moan. You know what? Let's stop that and let's get some actual facts into here. OK, so here's the deal with this place.
Proponents and Skepticism of Yonaguni
00:09:16
Speaker
So as I said previously, it's it's originally sort of quote unquote found in 1986. And, you know, again, what do I mean by that? It's ultimately comes to light.
00:09:30
Speaker
because marine geologist Masaki Kimura kind of pushes this. This marine geology guy has just not let up on this story. And isn't it interesting how there's always sort of a single person behind these? You know, there's going to be one single person, whether we're looking at the crystal skull, if you remember back the girl who, quote unquote, found it for her 16th birthday, right? She pushed the story until her death at well over 100.
00:09:57
Speaker
You, of course, have Graham Hancock pushing multiple stories, but that's sort of his brand. But that's what you get. You kind of get a solo artist pushing this story in the face of overwhelming odds. And you see how people get attracted to it. It's like the underdog story, you know, overwhelming odds. Nobody believes them. Yeah, I know nobody believes them because it's a terrible story.
00:10:21
Speaker
But so this guy, you know, just gets behind it, even though the Japanese government is like, no, this is nothing. Even anyone with any good sense is like, no, this is nothing. And again, what is it? So they're large geologic, very blocky square beds.
00:10:39
Speaker
that are located about 85 feet deep. Now, when I say located about 85 feet deep, that's where the main kind of quote unquote, you could say structures or whatever, even though, of course, they're not the main pyramid. The main pyramid base, friends, is it about 85 feet deep?
00:10:55
Speaker
And what's funny, of course, is these same formations are right above the ocean on the surface because it's a geological formation, right? They don't I don't even know if they say like above ground. They're like, oh, that's the top of the pyramid peeking out. I don't even know if they go that far. It's it's because it doesn't look merely as good above water because the stones have all naturally eroded. Of course, we're underwater. They're still.
00:11:21
Speaker
They haven't eroded as much due to, you know, wind and waves and stuff. So but underwater at like 85 feet down, there are these large, very angular, like 90 degree angular
00:11:34
Speaker
block looking sedimentary layers. And what are these? These are these are basically sandstone and shale. But this is sedimentary stone laid down in the Miocene. So, you know, the Miocene.
00:11:51
Speaker
is from
Diving at Yonaguni
00:11:52
Speaker
God, it's from about 25 million years ago up until about five million years ago, give or take. My point here is that the geological formations here are, oh, let's say about 20 million years old, right? Give or take. So what happened is these were laid down. These are sedimentary stones. There are only three kinds of stone in the world. There's igneous, which is volcanic.
00:12:15
Speaker
And if we think back to the Ganang Padang non pyramid, right, the one in Indonesia, the recent one that is just a natural hill, that's igneous, right? That's new stones, volcanic. Then you have metamorphic stone, which is where you have stone that is pushed over time, you know, underneath the earth and then the pressure of it kind of pushes and twists it into something new because the heat and pressure
00:12:43
Speaker
It's metamorphic stone. And then finally of sedimentary, which happens when basically erosion like a hillside erodes down and then it's laid there in beds. And over time, it just sort of gets pushed and stuck together. Something like sandstone is a classic sedimentary stone. Right. You can you can picture it in your mind how.
00:13:02
Speaker
a larger stone would just erode out and then you just have all this sandy grit that lays down in the bottom of like a valley or underneath the ocean, right? Or this kind of thing is laid down over time and then it's just pushed together through pressure, but it's not really changed chemically too much. So that's sedimentary. So that's how these things were formed. They're formed 20 million years ago, but since then the area has been uplifted like in the last several million years, right? In the Pleistocene. So what you have is
00:13:28
Speaker
layers of stone that were once way down deep, which are now being pushed up by the earth. So that makes sense. So geology can be fun and interesting. I love geology because it's so coldly scientific. You know, it just explains it. It's like, there you go. So actually, in terms of diving to this.
00:13:47
Speaker
I would do a dive on the Yonaguni monument, you know, Yonaguni submarine ruins any time, because actually you get two for two. The reason why there were divers there in the first place is because it's actually a well-known dive site for hammerhead sharks. And so that can be really awesome. And also, it's 85 feet deep, more than that in a minute. But doing a dive there so you could see hammerhead sharks would be really awesome.
00:14:13
Speaker
And also you can see these very blocky geologic formations. And I know that sounds like it might be boring just looking at like geologic formations, but it's not some of my favorite dives. They're really made better by not just looking at the fish, but if you see.
00:14:31
Speaker
really cool geologic formations like I've seen, seen like stalactites and stalagmites underwater. You know, the geology itself can just be have its own fascination. So these huge blocks and again, these these these layers don't picture them small picture them big picture them like six feet tall and you know, and then they cleave off and are sort of flat above. So these kind of six feet or 10 feet tall kind of huge steps.
00:14:59
Speaker
And of course, pseudoarchaeologists call these steps of a pyramid or steps of a structure, which of course they're not. They're just geological formations in terms of the diving. So. Me now, I know I'm very impressive. Not only do I have a PhD in archaeology, but oh, my God.
00:15:16
Speaker
I also have a dive master certification. I'm sure I bragged about that before. How could I not? So I've done, you know, a lot of dives and I know that world. I will say this, diving to 85 feet, I would call it a medium dive, if that makes sense. It's not just, hey, we're chilling at our resort in Hawaii and we're going to go see some fishes at 30 feet, right? It's more serious than that.
00:15:42
Speaker
But it's also not we're at like 150 feet and we're breathing like mixed gas or something. It's not that either. Right. So it's a again, you could call it like a real dive. And also.
00:15:53
Speaker
I've heard that that area is quite full of currents, which would make sense. You're on a small island. I think the southernmost point in Japan or quite near it, you're near Taiwan. And when you're at that sort of kind of a promontory point on an island, of course, sometimes the currents can just sort of whip around it.
00:16:14
Speaker
So a dive like that can also be intrinsically a bit dangerous. It's not for the depth. It can be for the currents. And I was wondering, you know, I listening to the Graham Hancock flint double debate. Graham Hancock was alluding to something. He kept saying like, I almost died, I almost died, making it seem like he almost died for science. But.
00:16:38
Speaker
whatever his silly ideas were, I understand that. I'm guessing it was because he dove here because he talked about diving the Yannaguni ruins over 200 times. So he dove a geological outcrop over 200 times. I mean, good for him. He could dive it 300 times. It doesn't make it more than it is. It doesn't all of a sudden mean it has any human aspect to it because it doesn't. But with that said,
00:17:04
Speaker
an 85 foot deep dive, if if you get caught up in a current or something, it can be dangerous. It can be harrowing. You know, so I do feel for him. You know, I mean, we we joke and have a laugh at Graham Hancock's expense. Sure. But I would never wish him any sort of pain or I feel for him as a fellow diver. I'm like, dude, that's, you know, that can be really scary.
00:17:29
Speaker
So in terms of how long people will ask me like, OK, if you're working at 85 feet, how long can you stay down? You know, what's it like? And I know this because I've actually worked at right around 85 feet a lot of times. And it depends on what you're using in your tank to breathe. If you're just using regular air.
00:17:50
Speaker
and regular air has 21% oxygen. It's actually 20.9. So if you cup your hand and you look down,
00:18:00
Speaker
And that that invisible stuff that's in your hand, that's only 20.9 percent oxygen. Most of it is nitrogen. And in diving, it's the nitrogen part that messes you up like in terms of how it reacts with your body. You can have nitrogen narcosis. Anyway, that's the that's one of the big concerns in diving.
00:18:23
Speaker
So if you're using regular air, you can only stay down at 85 feet for like about 20 minutes, 25 minutes or so, which is not a whole hell of a lot of time if you're trying to do something scientific and trying to take measurements or that kind of thing. But.
00:18:38
Speaker
85 feet is perfect for nitrox. Nitrox is 32 percent oxygen. So what they do in the tank is they add some extra pure oxygen to the regular air. You can also dive 36 percent oxygen. It gets it gets technical, but normally 32 percent if you dive nitrox.
00:18:58
Speaker
at 85 feet, you can stay down for like around 40 minutes or so, maybe 45. So you see it almost doubles your dive time and nitrox is perfect for that mid range dive. Now what's funny with diving,
00:19:12
Speaker
If you then go too deep and you're on nitrox, you can kill yourself. There's always a give and take in diving, right? So where with regular air, if you went down to 120 feet, it's actually no big deal, no big deal at all. But nitrox, if you go to 120 feet, all of a sudden you can have too much oxygen in the mix and it can kill you. So you always have to know what's up. But my point being,
00:19:37
Speaker
For 85 feet, I'm guessing Graham and others who dive there would would tend to angle towards nitrox because it's perfect for that also.
00:19:45
Speaker
Nitrox is just really great. And if you have a mid range dive like that, it just makes you feel better. It's funny. It's like easier on the system. It's like easier on your body. You don't get a headache as much. This is my experience. And I've heard a lot of people talk about this. It just makes your dive smoother. So, yes, I don't know when my review of the Yanaguni submarine ruins turned into a commercial for Nitrox, but but it did happen. So get your Nitrox today anyway.
00:20:13
Speaker
Why does this look like blocks sometimes? You know, I've been talking to you about how the Yanaguni Formation, I guess we should really call it that.
00:20:23
Speaker
The Anaguni Formation is these layers, right? And they kind of are, let's say, you know, 10 feet tall each time they sort of break at like, you know, at 10 foot layers, you know, this kind of thing. It also breaks vertically every so often. So it has the feel of a block kind of thing. That's because, of course, that area is also prone to a lot of earthquakes. So not only is the area being uplifted, it also gets shaken around a little bit. So these long beds will naturally
00:20:53
Speaker
break every so often. So that's what gives you the overall look of like, oh, this looks like at first glance.
Debunking Yonaguni Myths
00:21:03
Speaker
And notice, I say, you know, looks like. That's what will be key in the next segment that our human brain looks at it and goes, oh, this looks like bricks, huge bricks, you know, that that's that are part of some sort of huge pyramid. And again, it's a great story. Do I wish it was true? Yes. Is it true? No.
00:21:23
Speaker
When we come back, let's wrap it up with the Yanaguni submarine ruins. Hello and welcome back to the pseudo archaeology podcast, episode 141. And we have been messing around with the Yanaguni submarine ruins, otherwise known as the Yanaguni monument, which is a.
00:21:46
Speaker
a series of layered geological formations at about 85 feet deep, or really at 85 feet deep is where they look the coolest, but they go up to the surface and actually continue because the whole thing is just part of a geologic formation. So what else do pseudoarchaeologists say about this? There's a whole list of falsehoods that are attached to this. It's not just that this natural layering is a portion of a pyramid,
00:22:15
Speaker
And I guess, again, it's a pyramid for giants because the steps are very big. But they'll also say stuff like so. So first, is it a pyramid? No, of course not. Right. Don't don't waste my time. But but they go onward and they go, hey, man. Look, not only is it is it a pyramid, but there's tool marks on it. And you know what these are? Friends say it with me now.
00:22:43
Speaker
Natural scratches. I know sometimes sometimes stone anywhere on earth. Look at a piece of stone right now, right now. You see any scratches on it? Oh, you do. Well, that's obviously ancient tool marks. Right. That's because that's what they want. Like, oh, it must be too long. No, it's not. And along with it, too.
00:23:07
Speaker
You know, that's ancient art. Don't you see those scratch marks and see how they're kind of in a line? Well, that's that's the ancients writing to you in a secret code. If only you could translate it. No, you should. You should translate it. Be my guest. I'll wait.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, and God, more on that in a minute. And finally, they'll talk about how some of this stuff, oh, it's actually stone tools. There'll be smaller broken stones, you know, in the vicinity. Ah, these are stone tools. Oh, God, no, they're not. Right. And so you see the classic main problems. It's the same problems you get with the Bimini Road where
00:23:45
Speaker
If this actually was something that humans made, they'd be left over artifacts and junk and leftover food remains all over the place because there always is, you know, there's not a piece, there is not a single artifact, no, nothing that has been found with this, right? Nothing. It's just.
00:24:08
Speaker
What I find sad and tiring sometimes is people who are into this stuff will be like, well, you just haven't done enough research. Oh, well, you just need to do more research at Yanaguni. No, you don't because research is intrinsically expensive.
00:24:22
Speaker
And it's like, I'm going to spend that money somewhere else, you know, somewhere where I could do real archaeology and make real headway and answer real questions about the past. I'm not going to waste my time trying to, quote unquote, like debunk this because people are into pseudo archaeology. It's just a belief system. And when it's the belief system, they will never stop. So I could burn a bunch of money doing a survey and some sort of excavation at the Yanaguni geologic formation.
00:24:50
Speaker
And then when I find nothing, they'll be like, well, you just need to look more. But I'm not going to take that hook. You know what I mean? I'm not going to waste my time. Are you kidding? Right. It's just stupid. With that said, if somebody was going to pay for me a free trip to Yanaguni and pay for my like scuba diving equipment, dude, I'd do it in a second.
00:25:12
Speaker
Because why not? It's pretty. I would check it out. I would I would do whatever anybody wanted. I would like swim along. I'd like cruise along the stones.
The Allure of Yonaguni's Natural Beauty
00:25:20
Speaker
I'd check out the hammerhead sharks as I went because that's awesome. You know, I would totally do. I am a good enough diver to deal with the currents and stuff. I would do it in a second. You know, that's cool. But but I wouldn't like like start some sort of project there on my own dime. It would be that that would be the most foolish thing I could ever do. And people should and would laugh at me.
00:25:41
Speaker
Now, back to the art, the the ancient art, the scratchings. Have you translated them yet? Well, get on it. Be also on some of these stones. People will say that they see a face. Right. And this. This is this is that pareidolia thing.
Pareidolia and Misinterpretations
00:26:01
Speaker
Do you guys remember when I did the face on Mars? This is a while back. But we as humans,
00:26:08
Speaker
We tend to look for patterns in the world, right? It makes sense to a degree. That's why we people would even think this was a pyramid or something in the first place because of the patterning of the stones. But so if you see things that look like a face and it's vaguely two circles for eyes and then a mouth, right? Very easy to come across naturally. They're like, ah, yes, a carved face. It's not right. None of these. And if you look at the images,
00:26:34
Speaker
of some of these quote unquote faces and you're like a man. I want at least something that's kind of face like but it's just not right so this stuff.
00:26:47
Speaker
It's just easily debunked and tiring. Right. It's it's just it's that pareidolia thing where we look at it and we we see the face, you know, we put it together. It's just like, you know, if you look at the moon, you see the man in the moon or you see the rabbit in the moon. I much prefer the rabbit. It's much cooler. But, you know, that's just a patterning that we see and we we put to it. So that is something that is
00:27:15
Speaker
reacting inside our brain is something we do, right? And we want it to be true. We want it to be a thing. It's not. Notice how often through this I've said looked like, you know, well, it looks like this. Well, it looks like this. And that is the one of the most common pseudo archaeology things. Well, it looks like a thing.
00:27:34
Speaker
When Graham Hancock was talking with Flint, I believe he related this to the stones at Saxa Woman in Peru, the Inca stone masonry, right? Known for its fine stone masonry where the stones fit together really, really well. I think he compared this geological formation to that just because it's stones that are together. And of course, he'll say, but doesn't it look like Saxa Woman?
00:28:00
Speaker
And I have to say, it actually kind of doesn't, except in the most basic sense of, yes, there's stones with lines in them and they're all together. Again, we will see these similar patternings. We want to see these similar patternings, but they don't mean anything. They're natural. You don't need a human to do that.
Conclusion on Yonaguni's Origin
00:28:21
Speaker
And it just goes back again to we just want this story to be true.
00:28:25
Speaker
How many of us vote for there being an ancient huge pyramid that was built beginning at 85 feet down that's now under the under the water in southern Japan? Oh, hell yeah. I want like some crazy pyramid because that's awesome.
00:28:40
Speaker
But it's not true. And of course, this goes to that overlaying sort of the huge stupid story of the ages, you know, where there was a very complex civilization at the end of the last Ice Age. So, of course, see, this is why Yana Guni is going to keep coming up, because it's like, oh, yes, the ancients.
00:29:01
Speaker
built a pyramid in an area that was once above water and now is sunken beneath the waves. If only we could translate their many secrets. Please friends, get on that work as soon as possible. The future of the earth is in your hands. And with that, I'll talk to you guys next time.
00:29:32
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the pseudo archeology podcast. Please like and subscribe wherever you'd like and subscribe. And if you have questions for me, Dr. Andrew Kinkella, feel free to reach out using the links below or go to my YouTube channel, Kinkella teaches archeology. See you guys next time.
00:29:53
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archapodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.