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Flint Dibble and Graham Hancock Talk for 4.5 Hours on The Joe Rogan Experience - Ep 140
2.1k Plays7 months ago
The main event has happened! Real archaeologist Flint Dibble takes on pseudoarchaeologist Graham Hancock in a battle royale on the Joe Rogan Podcast, and lucky for us all I am here to provide the color commentary.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/pseudo/140
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You are now entering the pseudo-archaeology podcast, a show that uncovers what's fact, what's fake, and what's fun in the crazy world of pseudo-archaeology.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the pseudo archaeology podcast, episode one hundred and forty.
Flint Dibble's Joe Rogan Appearance
00:00:29
Speaker
I am your host, Dr. Andrew Kinkella, and tonight we've got Flint Dibble and Graham Hancock on the Joe Rogan podcast. Let's check it out. All right. So.
00:00:50
Speaker
You know, I was just going to do a regular show and I was like prepping my regular show. But then all of a sudden, like 48 hours ago, I happened to look, I think on Twitter, which I rarely look on, if we're honest and.
00:01:09
Speaker
I saw like I had a bunch of messages, you know, because I usually don't don't have any messages because I don't really use Twitter because I don't really care and I find it very unhealthy. But I was like, wow, there's like a lot of messages and they seemed like to me. Right. It was like, oh, you were liked on this message. Right. And there was like a bunch of.
00:01:30
Speaker
And I looked a little closer and I was like, Oh my God, Flint did his thing. Finally. I had known about this, you guys, for a long time, right? In, in the little pseudo archeology world that I inhabit, you know, there's a handful of us archeologists who kind of all do similar stuff. And Flint Dibble is one of them.
00:01:53
Speaker
He's got a YouTube channel, you know, and all that kind of good stuff like like so many of us do. But Flint had been invited to go on the Joe Rogan show to debate Graham Hancock a long time ago, like a year ago. And I knew it was scheduled to happen at some point. I wasn't quite sure when I had forgotten, but I'd heard this, too, that he was originally supposed to do it earlier, but he
00:02:22
Speaker
I had cancer and the cancer returned and you had to have it treated and that's of course a very very serious thing but.
00:02:32
Speaker
everything finally got to be okay and he went on the show and it came out yesterday, right? So the show comes out and of course that's big news in pseudo-archaeology world. So I immediately was like, man, I gotta listen to this and I gotta react to
Reacting to the Joe Rogan Podcast
00:02:51
Speaker
it. So I had to get myself together with like less than 48 hours to spare and like my schedule got destroyed. So first I just like to say, thanks Flint.
00:03:02
Speaker
for destroying my schedule, man. So I had to kind of get this together and I'm like, I'm like, this is awesome. I'll like I'll listen to this and then I'll do a show. You guys, the interview is four and a half hours long, four and a half hours long. And, you know.
00:03:22
Speaker
It's kind of fun though, like good for them. It's not a horrific slog. I mean, it's a horrific slog in some ways with some of the stuff Graham Hancock says, and we'll kind of get to that. But overall, you know, love him or hate him. Joe Rogan is a great host. I always have dug the Joe Rogan podcast, honestly. I'm a fan of the Joe Rogan podcast, you know?
00:03:44
Speaker
So what? I don't see the big deal like Joe Rogan interviews all kinds of big names. And, you know, speaking of which, in terms of what I'm a fan of, archaeology is great and all, but I'm probably even a bigger fan of Van Halen. Right. Van Halen with David Lee Roth is like my favorite band of all time. I am just a huge take no prisoners.
00:04:11
Speaker
I'm all in 110% fan of Van Halen and Joe Rogan interviewed David Lee Rock like fairly recently, maybe two years ago or so. So every so often, Joe has guests on that I personally just really want to hear from. And I dig his show. I dig his questions. I remember when Joe was the host of Fear Factor, if you know.
00:04:31
Speaker
Gen Xers out there remember that, you know, and he was like, he's a comedian, you know, so I don't know. I dig Joe Rogan. And so I was like, dude, I got to, you know, tune into this. And I have to say that he is skillful at.
00:04:46
Speaker
keeping a show moving along, kind of having both is kind of a point counterpoint between the two guests. And he kind of kept it, you know, kept it cooking along. I mean, not everyone can can do that, you know, for four and a half hours.
Importance of Diverse Platforms for Archaeologists
00:05:00
Speaker
So good on him. And honestly, good on both Flint and I got to say, you know, good on Graham Hancock for kind of hanging in there. I'm never a fan.
00:05:12
Speaker
of somebody who says, oh, I won't go on that show because it's too conservative or oh, my God, I could never go on that show because it's too liberal. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The point, especially with us out there who are real archaeologists trying to combat pseudo archaeology, you go on everything.
00:05:32
Speaker
I'm sure you guys have heard me say this before, right? My answer to all this kind of stuff when people ask me personally is always yes. Right. I've been on different television shows, interviews, podcasts, whatever, man. I always do it. So I totally get Flint's point of view. And I do have to tell you behind the scenes, there are other
00:05:56
Speaker
archaeologists out there, like really hard-boiled academic archaeologists, who gave Flint kind of a bad time for going on the Joe Rogan podcast. They're right there like, how dare you go on the Joe Rogan podcast? It's like, dude, let's all relax. I think what Flint did, I'm about to ruin my show, as I always do, you guys, by telling the ending at the beginning. I'm sure you're used to that.
00:06:22
Speaker
Flint kicked ass, man. He did a great job. Cats off to him, man. Like, good for you, dude. That was like a haul and a half, four and a half hours hanging there, listening to basically every classic Graham Hancock BS story.
00:06:42
Speaker
many of which we've covered on this very podcast right but flint did it with like good cheer he just kinda kept kept it up kept coming back to the facts and the real stories i mean i just.
00:06:56
Speaker
I was really impressed. I just thought he did he did a fantastic job. And I hope that others seeing this might finally and by others, I mean others in the archaeology community might finally just have enough balls to like do it themselves. Right. People like Flint and myself and other people on the archaeological podcast network, you know, there's some other YouTube channels.
00:07:23
Speaker
We're a small world, man. We need more real archeologists to join us and not be chicken. So, hey, look, Flint didn't die. He made it through four and a half hours, right? So I think the rest of us could follow his lead, you know? So I just think I got nothing but good things to say, man. I just thought it was fantastic. What I thought I would do with the rest of this show
00:07:51
Speaker
is just give a breakdown of how the podcast went and some points that I noticed. Now, it was four and a half hours long. And did I listen to every moment of it? Yes, I did. Now, it's both. You can check it out both as a podcast and as a YouTube video, too. And I have to say what I did throughout the day today, I'm recording this at one in the morning again. Thanks, Flint.
00:08:20
Speaker
And that's because I listened to it all throughout the day. I was in my office in the early afternoon. I had it on the YouTube channel. Then I actually had to take a drive to another school where I was teaching. I'm teaching like a part time class. I listened to I listened to it on the drive and then I listened to it on the drive back home. Then I flipped on the YouTube channel again. So I watched it kind of piecemeal between the YouTube channel
00:08:46
Speaker
and the podcast, but I did go through the whole thing because I was curious and there were certain moments where I just I was really looking forward to see how Flint would react, you know, because as we get into this, we all know the Graham Hancock stories, right? We know what he's going to talk about. It's always the same old stuff.
00:09:11
Speaker
So the the the fun actor in this is is Flint. He's the he's the you know, he's the new show. So I again, I was I was really curious how he would kind of react. And in terms of how the show went, so.
00:09:29
Speaker
It started off one thing I was I was surprised at is they used PowerPoints a lot more than I thought they would. And realizing that a huge portion of the audience is a podcast audience who can't see anything, you know, but I understood why. So each of them, I think Flint started first. But Flint did a PowerPoint presentation. He started with some fun stuff. He showed some ancient sort of Athenian
00:09:54
Speaker
plates that had pornographic images on them. Right. Just it's
Flint Dibble Challenges Graham Hancock
00:09:58
Speaker
fun. It's funny. You know, and he talked about how they were ultimately exported to Italy, you know, as just a fun, fun example of things. You know, he he very early on brought up the Carl Sagan quote of if you have extraordinary claims, they require extraordinary evidence. Of course, the exact thing that Graham Hancock
00:10:20
Speaker
never has. Flint went on to talk about Ice Age hunter-gatherer sites because as long-time listeners and fans of this podcast know, and those who are just into pseudo-archaeology in general,
00:10:38
Speaker
The overarching narrative that Graham Hancock's going to push is there was this ancient complex culture at the end of the last ice age, right? And they were obliterated by floods and or comets and or pick your poison, right? So.
00:10:56
Speaker
Flint's idea is like, OK, I got to show that there's a bunch of hunter-gatherers doing their thing all around this time. And, you know, they just keep doing their thing. And the idea that we have tons of evidence, tons, right? Thousands of sites, millions of artifacts from this time period, the end of the last ice age, we could say 10,000 years ago, we could say 12,000 years ago. We know this, you know, kind of worldwide.
00:11:26
Speaker
And so we have while we have all this stuff in the millions, we have no evidence for some sort of quote unquote advanced civilization, right? There's nothing. There's not a stick of it. There's not some sort of foundation. There's not some sort of complex technology, right? No evidence, none.
00:11:49
Speaker
And he also, at the same time, that's a big point, right? That he's got to get across. And I think he did it really as well as he could. And he also very early on talked about how
00:12:00
Speaker
As archaeologists, we are very open with our data, you know, where the idea is we want to give our data to the world. We want to show people if something new and funky is found. Right. I've said that a million times. Right. We all do. It's true. You know, if great evidence was found for Atlantis tomorrow, we'd show everyone because it would be cool, because it would be interesting. We're not hiding away as big archaeology, you know. And I think most people
00:12:29
Speaker
Understand that. I thought that Graham Hancock, while he said his same old stories early on, he he did some of his same old dumb attacks like, like, have you been there? Well, have you been to that site? I've been to that site. Have you? The idea being if you haven't actually visited a site, you just can't say anything about it. And it's just so lame. Right. It's such a stupid argument.
00:12:53
Speaker
It's like, no, I haven't been there, but I've been to a bunch of sites just like it. And I've worked there for months on end, much longer than your like three day trip you took there with a guide. You know what I mean? It's it's just it's condescending and dopey. And I do have to say what's funny.
00:13:12
Speaker
It says I'm telling you this. I literally got another reaction on one of my YouTube videos, like an hour before recording this, that said to me, well, have you been there? It's like, oh my God. So that was one of Graham Hancock's arguments that if you haven't been there, you just can't talk about it. You just don't have that personal experience.
00:13:41
Speaker
Silly B.S. Graham Hancock brought up the what I believe are called the Yanaguni ruins. They're the it's a geologic formation off the coast of Japan. A lot of you guys have probably already seen this one. You know, I haven't gone over it yet on this here on this podcast. I'll do it at some point. It's just basically a obvious.
00:14:03
Speaker
geological feature that, of course, is sort of straight and looks kind of blocky, don't they all? You know, but it has nothing to do with human beings, just a geological feature. And of course, Graham Hancock argues that it's like some sort of complex buildings that are buried under the water, you know, and it's just silly. Yes, I. And then after he did that, what was great is Flint actually brought up
00:14:29
Speaker
This place called Palo Petri, I believe, I think it's in the Mediterranean, but it's an area, it's like a city that's sunken a little bit. And Flint talked about the obvious point of, look, when we work there, the site that's been under the water for like 2000 years, there's a bunch of artifacts all over as there always is and things like this. And that place in Japan, no artifacts, no nothing, just blocky looking stones, right?
00:15:00
Speaker
obviously geologic, having nothing to do with people. As this part of the show progressed, for the most part, Joe Rogan was much more in Graham Hancock's court, of course. And there were once or twice where they kind of ganged up on Flint. And I thought Flint did a really good job of just weathering the storm
00:15:19
Speaker
and just kind of keep going. Flint did get a little pissed a few times. Can you blame them? Four and a half hours. But I thought it really, though, ended off looking really good. You know, again, ultimately looking very human and rational and and great. When we return. Still more on the four and a half hour love fest of Flint Dibble and Graham Hancock on the Joe Rogan experience.
00:15:50
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the pseudo-archaeology podcast, episode 140. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew Kinkella, and we have been discussing Flint Dibble's moment in the sun on the Joe Rogan podcast. And I've just been waxing philosophic about how great I thought he did. I think I'll just continue with how the show went and kind of some of the points that were made and some of the main themes. And then we'll just see what we think from there. So,
00:16:18
Speaker
I'd already talked about the the Yonaguni ruins in Japan, right, that Graham Hancock talked about. They continued on. I felt one of Graham Hancock's weakest moments was he was really trying to push the old tired Clovis first thing. And Flint said the exact same thing I always did. I was really happy to hear that he had the same experience. He's like, he's like, you know, in the 90s, they were already debunking that. That was my experience, too. Right. When I was a
00:16:47
Speaker
A freshman, I think, is either a freshman or a sophomore. I remember my archaeology professor specifically making fun of the whole Clovis first thing, you know, being like, oh, my God, it's so over the top of the lane. Right. But Graham Hancock keeps pushing it because he's got to kind of try and falsely prove that somehow archaeologists still believe in Clovis first and still hate people who say there's no such thing as Clovis first. It's just
00:17:12
Speaker
What a waste of time. And Flint did a great job of just being like, no, that's really not modern archaeology. It hasn't been that way for 30 years or more, honestly. But you could see Graham Hancock just pushing it. It's like, dude, shut up about the Clovis first. Nobody cares. It's a non-issue. Trying to make something out of nothing.
00:17:35
Speaker
He Graham Hancock also kept going on about the Sahara and that not enough work had been done in the Sahara. Or I think he also talked about like the Amazon, you know, all the classic places where you think where it still feels like there's not been a lot of work. And Flint countered with like, no, there's actually been quite a bit of work in these places, which is true. There's lots of lidar surveys. There's lots of ground surveys. There's there's even projects with excavations. They've done all kinds of stuff.
00:18:01
Speaker
Does there need to be more work? Should there be more work? The answer is always yes, of course. More work is a joy. I'll do more work any day. You know, we all would. But Graham Hancock would push this point about like, but what's the percentage has actually been dug up. And it's like, of course, the percentage of the Sahara that's actually been dug up.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah, I'm gonna go with not much. You don't need to dig up the entire Sahara. And Graham Hancock totally poo poos like sampling, right? Oh, well, it only had a 5% sample. It's like, yeah, but it was the part that you sample is the part where you know there's a high likelihood of finding stuff.
00:18:45
Speaker
I'm not saying that you might not find a little bit something else outside your sampling area, but you're going to find all the major stuff in the sampling area. You know, this idea that that he has to cling onto because there is zero zilch, no evidence for an advanced civilization at the end of the last ice age. His idea is, of course, like, well, we just haven't found it yet. But yeah, Flynn's point from earlier is, well, we would have.
Evidence of Ice Age Civilizations
00:19:11
Speaker
How can we have found
00:19:13
Speaker
Millions of hunter gatherer artifacts, you know, and sites and stuff from the period, but not one tick of an advanced civilization. Yeah, exactly. And Graham Hancock, of course, would constantly say, oh, it's it's premature to count it out. It's not premature. It's very much to count it out because it's a dopey ass idea.
00:19:39
Speaker
that I one thing I really appreciated that Flint did here and there is he would shove in almost little commercials like he talked about the AIA, right? The Archaeological Institute of America. He's like, hey, man, if you're into archaeology, you just donate it to the AIA. I couldn't agree more. I love the AIA. They're one of my favorite organizations. Right. Graham Hancock tried to sort of personally attack Flint. What Graham Hancock does is he he attacks
00:20:08
Speaker
And then he whines about how much he's being attacked. It's like this classic ploy. Watch him. He'll do it again and again. He comes on real strong. Like he'd be like, jeez, Graham. Right. He comes and be like, well, Flint, I'm sure that you would agree that you were a horrible person in this. Right. He comes on real strong. And then he goes, you know, if you were attacked like I've been attacked.
00:20:30
Speaker
Oh, you know, it really hurt me. Right. It's like, oh, you freaking shyster. Shut up with your bullshit crocodile tears. Good God. Get a spine. Right. He does the flip flop all the time. It's one of his tricks. Right. They went on more about underwater sites. Flint did a great job about talking about predictive modeling underwater, meaning like, no, we're not going to like
00:20:56
Speaker
survey the entire ocean, we're going to look in the most important places where the possibilities are greatest. You know, another great point that Flint made that I'm totally going to steal because I forgot about this was that in some areas of the world, there's actually uplifting.
00:21:13
Speaker
Right, so if we're sure a lot of the coastline is 300 feet underwater because the last ice age, the water was, of course, up in the glaciers and has now come down and filled up the ocean that much. There are areas along the coast where there's actually been uplifting and you do have.
00:21:31
Speaker
that area actually on land. And Phil was talking about, yeah, in these areas, you look and you find all kinds of evidence for hunters and gatherers. And again, no evidence for advanced civilization. You don't even need to go scuba diving. It's right there. You know, oh, what a great point. I forgot about that. You know, right. There's uplifted areas. And I think he talked about I think in I think in coastal Canada, there's some of those. Then after this part, there came just
00:21:58
Speaker
the regular old Graham Hancock, old, tired stories. They hit on the Bimini Road. Oh, you know, Stones of Atlantis in Bermuda, that thing. But I thought Flint did a really good job again of just listening to it and not just standing up and going, what a crock of bullshit. And we all know it. You know, he didn't do that. He was just like, yes,
00:22:24
Speaker
And he wrote, right, but did a good job of showing that, no, he didn't believe it. But but he he kept this cool. That's where I believe. I think Graham Hancock literally said, oh, the laughter is so hurtful or something like that. See, oops, I just laughed. I may have hurt him.
00:22:46
Speaker
And then, of course, after the stupid, stupid Bimini Road, which is one of my probably top five dumbest examples of pseudo archaeology. Again, I did that. I did it on one of the shows here. Then, of course, the Gunang Padang non pyramid. Like they spent a lot of time on that one. The one that's obviously a natural hill with a little bit of archaeology on top.
00:23:10
Speaker
Spent a lot of time talking about ground truth. Oh, Flint, another really great point. No matter how much remote sensing you do, and that can be LIDAR, that can be ground penetrating radar, any of that stuff.
00:23:22
Speaker
Totally true that you've got a ground truth. It means you've got to dig some means you've got to get to the ground and check it out in person. So the point is, if you just show a lot of graphs from ground penetrating radar or something, it doesn't mean that much, right? You need to ground truth. And I thought that was a fantastic point. I've
00:23:41
Speaker
seen that done personally a lot. Then it was it was onwards towards, you know, the sort of racist critique that Graham really went over the top. You know, I can't believe it. So maligned, you know. And and again, made a really good point. He's like, look, I never called you a racist personally. I never have either. Right. I don't think that Graham Hancock is a racist. No, that's just a silly waste of time argument. The important part
00:24:09
Speaker
is that some of that old stupid stories are, of course, originally from like Ignatius Donnelly's Atlantis, the anti-deluvian world from 1881. And the backstory idea is pretty racist. You know, the idea that indigenous cultures didn't make their own stuff that like magical white people came and did it for them because they couldn't do it. It had to be the magical people. Right. And that's just like
00:24:38
Speaker
It's just foolish and tired and wrong. And and that aspect does have a racist angle to it. You know, but of course, Graham played it like it like they were calling him a racist constantly. And it was like, no, no, no, no, it's not about that. It is about some of these ideas really playing short shrift on what indigenous people actually did. They talked about Quetzalcoatl, which Quetzalcoatl
00:25:04
Speaker
even me being a Mayanist, Quetzalcoatl can be kind of a complex situation. And when they brought that up, I was like, Oh, man, here he comes. But there is an aspect of the Quetzalcoatl story, which is sort of an early Spanish made up thing. Again, it's like the white guy with a beard from a faraway land lands at the beach and shows you how to be a civilization. It's like, no, that's not what Quetzalcoatl is like the plume serpent, right? He has aspects of like a god of the wind. It gets very
00:25:32
Speaker
Esoteric, but that that whole like but Quetzalcoatl is a white guy from the ocean. That's no, that's a that's a that's not an indigenous story. It's a post contact stick together one. Then, of course, you're like, dude, this isn't a full time with Graham Hancock if you don't bring up the younger, driest comet impact.
00:25:57
Speaker
And so, of course, he brings up that. And, you know, what what I would say on this is that you have two things happening, and Graham is very adroit at sort of making it seem like it's all attacking him, but it's not. You have the younger Dryas, which is a time period where we're coming out of the ice age, right? It was a little bit colder and then it starts to warm up because we're coming out of the ice age.
00:26:24
Speaker
But then it dunks down again and gets cold for a little bit longer. There's this bump down and that's the younger, driest time period, right? It's this little like, you know, several hundred years, maybe a thousand years, I forget, but it's something like something in there. And that's true, right? There is a time period called the younger, driest and that's that's real. But then the comet impact thing, that's the part that's very pseudo archaeological. Some people argue that
00:26:52
Speaker
really the whole thing is BS and there was no comment impact at all. Some people still kind of argue for a little, but even those who argue that maybe there was actual comment impact at that point, the point is that when the comment hit or comment pieces or whatever, it wasn't any big deal. It was like localized, you know?
00:27:13
Speaker
And I could see that. Sure. OK. A comet could hit during the younger drives. Comets do hit every so often. You know, that's true. But it and it's really bad for the people who live right there if it hits your town. But it's not some global disaster. The grand paints it as there's no evidence for it as global disaster. That's just silly. So you have to realize when somebody says younger drives comet impact theory, it's kind of two things younger drives and then the comet thing.
00:27:43
Speaker
Then, you know, then after that, things changed a little. And Flint did this presentation on seeds and seed cultivation. And you would think that would be like really boring. You're like, oh, no, seeds. But did for me and actually for Joe Rogan, too.
00:28:03
Speaker
All that previous stuff, you know, the Bimini Road, like Quetzalcoatl as a white guy, all that crap is just so tired and boring, you've heard it a thousand times. When Flint actually started talking about his seeds, that was awesome. Like he was talking about how seeds change evolutionarily when they become domesticated, like wheat and stuff.
00:28:24
Speaker
and joe joe rogan was really into it you know he was really amazed at sort of like the natural world and nature and again i gotta give joe massive credit joe rogan you can tell is honestly fascinated with the world around them and that's awesome.
00:28:40
Speaker
You know, and his fascination comes out for his audience. So he was like, yeah, that's fascinating. I thought he really stoked Flint's little seed presentation there in a really positive manner. I thought that was just great. So that was that was probably my favorite part of the whole thing. Honestly, it was a little seed cultivation thing just because it was new and different and creative. But then, of course. If you're at a high.
00:29:04
Speaker
You know where this goes, friends.
Debunking Sphinx Age Theories
00:29:06
Speaker
You have to cut my legs out. Right. And of course they did. And then they went on with the Sphinx water erosion hypothesis. Why God? Why? Right. So and again, Flint chilling, dealing with it. Stupid idea that the Sphinx is somehow 10,000 years old. It's not as old as all the rest of stuff around it. You know, oh, God, it's just
00:29:34
Speaker
And then moving onward, I think Graham left his most esoteric weird crap for the end. So he did like alignments. He started talking about like alignments of procession, like certain cultures tracking procession, which is the wobble of the earth on its axis, which is just nonsensical.
00:29:57
Speaker
And of course, again, as I as I touched on, he moved on to alignments. You got to do alignments, of course. Oh, the pyramids aligned to the procession, whatever. And this constellation at the time of 10,000. It's just just gobbledygook, pointless waste of time. But when we come back, we're not going to waste our time. We're going to wrap it up with Flint Dibble and his appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast.
00:30:28
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the pseudo archaeology podcast episode 140, and we are going to wrap up the Flint Dibble presentation with Graham Hancock as part of the Joe Rogan podcast, which.
00:30:44
Speaker
I really had a good time listening to the last bits here were almost done just sort of looking at how the show went down near the end we just discuss the alignments you know and then onwards i guess grams last point you did this numerology thing which was just.
00:31:03
Speaker
Again just nonsensical like these numbers add up to this with ninety nine percent exact in this like so what it's just again it's just mathematical it's the same old mathematical tricks where you're like where you seem online words like.
00:31:20
Speaker
Add one to your age and divide by five. What do you get? Right. It's that same. It's that same setup. And Flint did a great job. He used the number 420 just for the weed reference and then went through it and he's like, oh, and that predicts it with ninety nine percent aggregate.
Numerology Claims and Archaeology
00:31:35
Speaker
I thought that was really hilarious. Good for him for having that one in his back pocket ready to go. I thought that was really funny and made just Graham Hancock look like a tool in a really respectful way. Funnily enough.
00:31:49
Speaker
And then finally, the end, I thought they ended all three of them really strong. They sort of did a plea for archaeology departments, right? Because the funding for archaeology departments has gotten pretty dismal. Archaeology departments have been closing. Archaeology excavations and digs have been narrowing. The funding's just not there, right? And Flint totally knows this. Joe Rogan was totally shocked, right? He was like, oh, my God.
00:32:16
Speaker
like why would they close the archaeology department all of them you gotta give gram hancock his credit he was totally all three of them were it were like pro archaeology they were like man. You know we want to keep doing this you know how can we possibly. Stop the study of the greatest questions of all time like where are we from you know.
00:32:37
Speaker
That was great. And then I do have to say right at the end, they each Graham and Flint got to kind of wrap up. And Flint also did another little commercial for YouTube channels. He showed a slide of like archaeology, YouTube channels, and he had about 20 of them on there.
Promoting Real Archaeology Podcasts
00:32:57
Speaker
And then he showed another slide. For real archaeology podcasts, and he had about 20 of them on there. And guess what, friends?
00:33:06
Speaker
I was on there. So I was on the YouTube side. Kinkela teaches archaeology. My YouTube channel was on there. It made me feel so good. I just like to again, thanks to Flint. That was so nice to include me on there. And on the other side, when they showed the podcast, this very podcast, listeners, that's right, we're in it. The Suitor Archaeology podcast was on the list of podcasts and also the other one I'm on.
00:33:31
Speaker
serum podcast was on there, too. The APN was very well represented on his list of podcast shows. So I that really jazzed me, you know, to be like, oh, my God, my stuff, although it was only on for a moment. Right. I'm like, I made the Joe Rogan podcast or, you know, just for just for a minute, like just for just for five seconds.
00:33:54
Speaker
That that really that really made my day. And and that was why I was getting all those like Twitter announcements or whatever, because because people were liking all the all the like YouTube channels and podcasts that were that were on there. And I was getting some, you know, I was getting some traction, man.
00:34:15
Speaker
So that was just great. And of course, they all they ended it with, you know, we should invest, sort of invest in our future because that's what societies tend to not do when they start to fall apart. So that's how the podcast ended. It was sort of a fascinating romp. I recommend that all you guys just check it out. Just listen to it. You don't have to listen to all four and a half hours, but listen to it for a while. You know, it's fun. It's a real
00:34:44
Speaker
view into how pseudo-archaeologists argue, what they talk about, how they just blather on about stuff that's obviously fake and they're trained just rolls forward. And kind of a masterclass that Flint gives in staying cool and just sticking to your facts
00:35:07
Speaker
and just not trying to debunk. I thought he was really smart that he didn't sit there and just debunk, trying to debunk like every point because it would have been impossible because every moment is just silliness that comes out of Graham Hancock's mouth. You're just going to fall into a
00:35:27
Speaker
tunnel of doom and gloom. If you're like, wait, wait, wait, I'm here to debunk point number 56. Then it's like, no, no, no, no, no. You just have to go with your own story of facts and truth. And with that, I have one more thing to talk about, actually. Flynn also wrote an article as to why he was appearing on the Joe Rogan podcast in the first place. This comes out in Sapiens. It's only like a day or two old.
00:35:53
Speaker
And I thought that was really great as I brought up at the top of this podcast. Unfortunately, a lot of academics were given Flint some tough times on this, you know, this idea of like, oh, you shouldn't platform these people. Oh, give me a break. Right.
00:36:12
Speaker
Flint was, I thought, so brave and forward thinking doing this, you know, again, good for him. Like, like, what do you mean? Well, he's going to what? Accidentally platform Graham Hancock. Trust me, Graham Hancock already has the platform. We've lost my friends, right? Pseudoarchaeology has won. So it's it behooves us to get on any platform we can. Right. If anybody should be bummed about doing the platforming, it's the Graham Hancock platform, Flint Dibble.
00:36:42
Speaker
So the more we can be platformed, the better. In the article that that Flint wrote, he wrote one part that I really, really liked. He just went over his whole thought process behind it, you know.
00:36:55
Speaker
And he says here, and I'll quote him right here, he says, quote, still, I'm appearing because Rogan's podcast draws an audience in the tens of millions. If scholars want to curb the spread of misinformation, we need to stop just talking amongst ourselves or to audiences of like minded people. Absolutely. Right.
00:37:18
Speaker
Flint is exactly right. That's it. We have to reach out to the other audiences, to, you know, what I like to call the rest of the world. You know, we must do that. We must talk normally, jargon free. We want to make archaeology seem fascinating and exciting. If you do super fascinating stuff that seems kind of Indiana Jonesy, well, talk about it.
00:37:47
Speaker
because that's freaking great and people love it. I think Flint also did an excellent job of talking about something that could seem super banal, seeds, right? Ancient old burned up seeds and did a fantastic job because he was passionate, right?
Encouraging Public Engagement
00:38:04
Speaker
So that's what we need in this world. We need passionate, real archeologists who are ready to talk to the general public and are fearless.
00:38:16
Speaker
And with that, my friends, please do that and I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the pseudo archaeology podcast. Please like and subscribe wherever you like and subscribe. And if you have questions for me, Dr. Andrew Kinkela, feel free to reach out using the links below or go to my YouTube channel. Kinkela teaches archaeology. See you guys next time.
00:38:48
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.