Sierre-Zinal, Elite Mid-Race Support, The Impact of UTMB feat. Iain Best | Episode 122

Transcript

Speaker: Hello and welcome to episode 122 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Brodie, one of your regular hosts, and this week I'm joined by James.

Speaker: James is back from his ah big Europe trip. Bit of a jet lag, James. How are you? i'm good i'm excited to be back on a I'm struggling a little bit. It's 4 .45pm. My. Brain feels like it's really gone to sleep, but we're here.

Speaker: We're doing alright. Fantastic. It's good to have you back on again. And this week we're lucky to be joined by Ian Best. Ian is also over in Europe. He's been doing a bunch of different racing. We've sort of talked about a bit of it on the podcast. um But just over the weekend, he was racing at Cierzanal, which is a very iconic race. I was watching some videos about it and it like really hyped me back up from from when I was there a few years ago. So, Ian, thanks for jumping on and we're really keen to talk to you about your...

Speaker: You're a... exploits across Europe and ah see you as an hour on the weekend. Yeah, cool. No, thanks for having me. So we had Ian, when did we have you? Last year, end of the year in December, was that right? Or was it in January this year? We we sort of had you on to have a bit of a chat. It was an interview, I think.

Speaker: I think you had me end of last year on a main episode and then James interviewed me at the start of this year. No, we had both. Yeah, so we've... we've Probably, I guess, got.

Speaker: hopefully a fair bit of background for you. we've We've spoken about you a lot on the podcast. So if people want to sort of get into a little bit more about Ian's story and his ah his experiences in trail running, um head back and have a listen to that interview and then that ah maybe the standalone episode also in end of last year. but Today, I guess we'll mostly focus on what you've been up to since we last spoke.

Speaker: um So this year... For you, ah you've been very busy. You've been doing a lot of racing. What was the first thing? What did you start the year off with? I know you were at Donna Double, but were you doing some racing? I think you did some racing before that.

Speaker: Yeah, I did between... Uh... January and April, I probably did about 10 different races. Um... I've had the year. I'm on. I remember seeing you on like. many start lines. There was one, I think, wasn't there, where you were at Buller and then the next day you were at Baw Baw or something like that, I feel like. Yeah, I did Conquestathon at Mount Bogong and then I drove down to Baw Baw.

Speaker: matt crane talked to me into driving six hours to do a second race I actually remember that because I remember seeing a picture from Baw Baw and them saying, oh, this is Ian Best. And I'm like, that's not Ian Best. I think I even messaged James and was like, oh, they got this wrong. And James was like, no, that is Ian. yeah i was cooked up for that one so busy busy busy start to the year was there a a plan behind doing lots of racing or was it that you just wanted to get out there and experience as many races as possible? Like what was the...

Speaker: What was the purpose of... The... I guess the racing that you did do. It was... it was experience like i had a lot of fun just doing as many iconic australian races or like maybe races in iconic places as i could i had the time to kind of do it and because i'm not working my recovery is slightly better because i'm resting better during the day So, yeah, I had the time. and Really just wanted to lap up as much trail running as I could.

Speaker: Yeah, it looked fantastic. um So you did Conquestathon, you did the Bobo race. What other races did you do? Give a shout out to the ones you they got to. The 23K, the new La La's at Hut to Hut. Um, Donna.

Speaker: the 10k at buffalo uh i won the premiere race at buffalo as well with you the relay which you didn't mention on the podcast and I was dirty about. The most important race of Buffalo.

Speaker: Yeah, and I think from memory after Buffalo, I i took it easy because then I... um I went over to Spain at the start of May and did Transvolcania. I did the VK and the half marathon there.

Speaker: uh and then the next racing after that i went over to japan and did some a vk and one of their sky races at the start of june And then that. That jumps me to now being in Europe. Yeah, fantastic.

Speaker: Um, so a lot of, a lot of racing. Yeah. I've actually forgotten how much you've done because transvolcania feels like. A really long time ago. ago um But that's really not that long ago, is it? And yeah, because I remember your your races there were quite quite impressive. So it was really cool to see you racing there. um In Australia, what... of Of those races that you did do, what was your what was your favorite? What's the...

Speaker: What was your favorite race experience? What's one that you would recommend our listeners? Definitely. try out one day. So... I think a race that remains underrated is Conquestathon. As a mountain race to go up Victoria's biggest mountain, just straight up, straight down in 20 Ks.

Speaker: It's It's very... almost european if anyone's chasing that kind of experience like You run through a forest, you get above the tree line, you're at altitude and then you hammer down. Or in my case, you... trickle down and Hayden Barnett flies past you.

Speaker: Um... the other one that really like you You kind of talked me into coming down to do Donna. It had never really jumped out. at me as a race and i loved it like that's such a fun course I'd always been maybe intimidated by how fast you had to go down.

Speaker: Ah, Mara. Bye. Yeah. All right. Now that was a sick race. And I'd probably. Keep going back to that. Um, Yeah, I hope no one else does. That's probably one of the ones I don't want to recommend to other people because I don't want them to come so I can get their golden trail money. Yeah. we'll see if that happens again next year. But, like, yeah, it was pretty cool to race there this year. And Conquestathon. I've never done that course but it looks like.

Speaker: Such a cool route. I think I've done the route maybe just on a run before. um And like you said, it's about it's about one of the only sort of... More European -esque. races or or let's not, we'll call it the Alps in in Europe because there's lots of races in Europe that aren't. mountains, but, um,

Speaker: it's one of the only ones that you get that real flavor apart from maybe some others in the vic high country um so it is very cool somebody and given two already Yeah, okay. Give us a third. Actually... I was joking about it before. I raided during the relay. That was a lot of fun. um yeah like doing the relay with three other mates driving around cheering people on uh... getting a hot spot other people's running and also running first someone other than yourself like

Speaker: As an experience, like I reckon doing a relay race like that. is well worth it in your running career. That's it. Is that going? I did the surf coast. Relay in 20 two I think with a group of guys from up here And it still stands out to me as my favorite race I've done. like it just There's so much more meaning to it when you know that there's three other...

Speaker: guys girls wherever it is pushing themselves to get the most out so that you can as a team go as fast as possible Um, It's, yeah, it's... it's has that i think I think especially if I grew up.

Speaker: obviously the skiing side, but like rugby and a team sport. And it just brings that element back a little bit where it's still. still you're responsible for your own performance like in your section you don't have to but pass the ball across for anybody else but it gets a little bit more of that vibe back which i really like Definitely. Relays are underrated, I reckon. i I really love them. Even being... Because you would see... Often they're seen as sort of the event you would do if you couldn't do the whole thing and therefore you split it up into...

Speaker: small sections or I feel like that's how they're sometimes marketed. um But I think they're so cool also to do as not necessarily as an elite, but they are fun to do really fast. But even like a mixture of different abilities within the same team is really cool as well. um which is probably a little bit of what our buffalo team was because we were in amongst the the field and it's especially cool when you start with the

Speaker: the solo runners as well. Cause you're in amongst it. You get to watch all day. We got to watch the Buffalo race unfold from the mountain as we were sort of. going around. So yeah, that was really...

Speaker: That was really special. So I would agree. um I ruptured my Achilles a week later. so was it Was it worth it? No, probably. I guess I got it in. yeah like just fromha done yeah exactly yeah I can retire now. I've won the the biggest race in trail running in Australia.

Speaker: Yep. Off the top of my head. Like GPT has a relay. Does Margaret River have a relay? I think the rapid ascents guys tend to. do Yeah. because Sim did one a few right years ago like or that was like the stage race one. I don't know if that's the Margaret River. That might be a different race.

Speaker: Because um I feel like they're starting to... pop up a little bit more frequently. but Yeah. Kmart's got one. i've done the camera one i've done the gpt one both highly i would highly recommend both of them now i've done buffalo would definitely recommend that i want to do surf coast that looks like a cool one Yeah, and I like how Surfcase, I just saw... posts from our rapid ascent before this that they had

Speaker: for the men's side they had the women's i think the two grand to break the seven hour mark which got broken last year um But they've still got cash prizes up. for I think it's $1 ,000 goes if the... Men's 100k, women's 100k, women's team relay 100k, men's... Team Relay 100k, if you break any of those records.

Speaker: you've got the cash incentive there which is fun because it's adding again just a a bit more of a reason to shut up and give it a push Yeah, it's also a nice way to participate in an event. uh maybe without Like. I don't know, all the ones I've ended up doing, I've gone as hard as I can, but maybe you could go at it in a more... tempo effort and still be a part of the event and and then continue on and do it a different event as a that you're focusing on as an individual um definitely so because because you're doing a shorter distance you can sort of usually recover

Speaker: a bit faster and you often get to see like a unique part of a course that... you would never really see like on buffalo i did leg three and that's not a race of any kind like it's it's just it's part of the 100k but it's not it's not a race in any other format so it's sort of unique that you get to.

Speaker: do something like that that's a bit different. And it also tends to lend to different skill sets like the buffalo. Of course, when you look at the four different legs of how they will play out, even GPT. South Coast like there's You can...

Speaker: Build a fun team where you can also... avoid what you don't like to do. A bit more? Yeah, a bit of tactics involved, which is yeah just fun. That's good. And when you're... looking at. your season and you're sitting down with ben duff as your coach like how do you guys plan for so much racing but not to detract away from training towards the races.

Speaker: that do matter that bit more the The excuse for the start of the year and doing so many races then was I'd planned to do heaps of races over here in Europe. uh mainly vks like mainly uphill races csno was probably an anomaly ah So the excuse for doing that at the start of the year was, okay, let's see how I go racing over and over and over and over.

Speaker: um but we wound it back so like before I basically say to Ben like, within All these things that I want to do, these are my A races. uh and so transvolcano is one for example And then.

Speaker: Ben is like the common sense guy who... turns to me and goes okay well If you want to do that, you're not doing this. um He's probably not so much a tough love guy like... He's really good at like just subtly being like, okay, if you want to do this, I'm taking this out. um And I'm like, oh, yeah, he's. He's sort of putting the leash on and pulling me back a bit.

Speaker: so yeah i basically just let him know where the a -races are and then we work around that so like take Donna, that was a really last minute. decision to go there. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have done all those races before.

Speaker: But it it just was what it was kind of thing. Allah Hafiz. Yeah. And... How do you approach them when you're building up to it? Because obviously see if you... If you did. overdo too many of these races.

Speaker: recovery is going to be really hard you're going to burn yourself out you're just going to interrupt your training too much so when you sign up are you able to approach them from a this is for fun to take part to experience it Yes, it takes a conquest -a -thon. Conquestathon I basically just tried to kind of time trial the climb up Bogong and then I wound it back and didn't descend that hard at all.

Speaker: Um, And then... Yes, I raced Bobo the next day, but that was... maybe at a tempo effort it wasn't too much more so neither of them were going to completely empty.

Speaker: Ah. Same with like, so I did the 23K Oscars. um which for those not familiar with it is like a down and then up course much like UTA 22. I...

Speaker: I basically set myself a target. to go down, which was a little reserved, and then I time trialed the climb. which made for like a really... a really good run and a really well paced run but i managed my effort on the thing that was going to cause the most recovery which for me is that descent like if i'd gone that all out i would have um Yeah, I would have really ruined myself. So yeah, like within a lot of these runs, I'm managing certain parts of them to ensure.

Speaker: i'm not needing a full recovery from them. Makes sense. What what does the week look like? to get ready for a weekend like that i was for those ones i was basically kind of training through so i was still doing my normal monday to friday of like sort of easy speed easy hills easy and then having a race on the weekend but it varies depending on what Ah days.

Speaker: the race is on whether it's saturday or sunday sorry the bells are going again that'll be every 15 minutes

Speaker: that's right it's a nice touch of europe um but yeah wherever possible but like obviously the point of having a coach is you be a bit flexible so if a weekend did cook you a little bit more then you back things off But yeah, for the most part, like the weekend were...

Speaker: just supplementing my long runs and i was able to keep them midweek the same very nice and so that I guess that block of racing in Australia, like you said, it led up. Two.

Speaker: heading across to run Transvolcania in Spain. Um, Or in... the Canary Islands at least. um How did you feel like that that block was like it definitely set you up? Because obviously your results at Transvolcano were quite good. Do you feel like that block?

Speaker: sort of set you up for that or were you ever sort of thinking maybe I'd done too much racing or do you feel like that really helped you sort of race? sort of race yourself into some fitness when you sort of allowed enough recovery going in yes i mean it's a hard one because transvolcano is really good that's probably The half marathon was probably the best run of my life.

Speaker: Um, And I think like the the the term... that I felt on the ground was fatigue resistance. Like I kind of just sat at my own pace and I ran down the field.

Speaker: uh from like 30th up to i ended up 12th or something um and i was gaining on some like good guys at the end there when i looked at my splits like tyler mcandless and a couple of the americans Yeah, like my fatigue resistance on that day was just really, really good. Ah.

Speaker: But funnily enough, my fatigue resistance now feels really, really terrible and I didn't change too much, so I'm not sure. um I can't quite. pinpoint exactly what it is but Yeah, I I felt really indestructible at Transvolcania. Yeah, fantastic. and um In terms of the the racing that you did do there. um What?

Speaker: like Why were you over there doing that race? Is that because that was part of the mountain running cup or was it because it's just a race that had been on your bucket list? so like What was the goal to going over there and racing that one?

Speaker: Now, billy curtis oriented me onto it he was like i'm gonna be here You might enjoy this and I had a look at it basically like Ah. you know cost versus effort kind of thing visa has the vk on the Thursday, I think it was, and then an uphill half marathon on the Saturday. I was like, well, sweet, I'll get two races out of this.

Speaker: um i was originally we were actually going to do it as a family holiday but as it got closer ah it was becoming a bit much. um But I was lucky because my birthday fell over that week. so I got a bit of sympathy and was allowed to go by myself. Um,

Speaker: But yeah. Like being able to do two races at once was really cool. And I actually signed up before it became Mountain Running World Cup. uh it Yeah, became that afterwards. And tell us that was a little bit about... Oh sorry, go on. James? No, I was going to say... that At that that time, in that was a pretty much a fly -in race for a weekend. overseas and fly out How did he go with...

Speaker: putting in especially like a vk effort after doing the long haul flight without really any time to... recover or adjust. Yeah, I traveled really badly I was um On the second leg, so it was like...

Speaker: Yeah. i won't point fingers at any international heads of state but i had to like take five flights to get to no six flights to get there because i had to avoid a war zone um And one of like the longest leg I got. put next to the biggest human being. uh he was enormous so i was like sitting on one side for 13 hours uh and that whole side seized up so if i actually get back into my training peaks um I'm pretty sure it's full of expletives talking about how.

Speaker: this was a waste of time because my body was ruined just from the flight. Um, Fortunately, it like settled down by the VK. ah End. Yeah, it all kind of came good. um But life I think on the Wednesday and definitely on the Tuesday, I was...

Speaker: I was sort of talking about this was... absolutely terrible idea um because yeah but like my whole hamstring and my high hamstring and hip were Just locked. from sitting next to this dude. yeah okay there's ah there's something to that in terms of like obviously you were there so you were never probably going to never race but like I think in those opportunities even if you haven't gone as far where we you've had some adversity like that happen I think it's really important to

Speaker: Try and race if you can as long as he's not gonna put you backwards Because... i think then you have your experience like you've had and you'd be like okay well I can... I can do six flights and them not be very good and I can still have... possibly the race of my life and i think those Those experiences really help psychologically. or they at least should do for me i had a similar well not ah not a similar experience a bit different i was sick uh before the VK at KMR a few years ago and I...

Speaker: got in my flight to Tassie got delayed I got in at 2am and I was like coming up with all these excuses and then I actually had a quite a good race and now I'm like Oh, well, nothing can... whatever happens, i can still you can still pull out a good performance on the day. I feel like those experiences can sometimes be really useful. Um...

Speaker: for the future and obviously he's you managed to like. get yourself into. some good shape do you think the the vk maybe helped as a bit of a shakeout for the that next day which obviously was a really good race Yeah, I think to to your point, like because I was maybe a little unconfident.

Speaker: I paced the VK quite well and ran quite an even um almost tempo effort feel like it was hard like i gave everything to it but like it was an even effort i didn't blow up at any point Um, which meant recovery.

Speaker: was quite good. And then having a background of doing like a hill session on Thursday and a long run on Saturday, I know that turnaround of one day can be. it is is very doable. um So yeah, sometimes like with the travel thing and with a little bit of fatigue from like the VK.

Speaker: it kind of winds me back to being Yeah. a little bit more controlled which for me is a better race i'm not a bottle rocket i can't take off at the start and whenever i do i i have a terrible race so anything that like gives me a bit of uh conservatism with my run approach to race often actually has a good result Yeah interesting.

Speaker: Cool. And how was your... Sorry, James, you go. I'd. Did the result coming off the VK... like the body responding. better than you expected. Did that give you the confidence that the the half marathon on But this the Saturday... It was going to be a... Good day. I didn't really know. I hadn't seen the course. I'd only gone gone up Billy's descriptions, which...

Speaker: Uh... In hindsight, we're completely accurate, but I maybe built them up in my head because you're running on like volcanic sand. So I had this picture of like beach running for 20 Ks. There's not quite that.

Speaker: Um, But like what what happened on the Saturday with half marathon was like I just set off at my own pace And I ran my own pace the entire way It wasn't like CSNR where...

Speaker: Uh... it was like stacked full of people like i was able to then find my own space and settle into my own groove And there was just a point in the race where I just started. Like. i'd catch someone i'd look up and there'd be another person there i'd catch them i'd look up there'd be another person there And it just kept happening. and you know what it's like. like you start being a morale vampire and sucking the morale of other people that are falling back in the field. And every person you catch hypes you up.

Speaker: um And I think it was... ah Ah. I'm blanking on his name. There was a Kiwi and a Spanish guy towards the end of the last client. And like, I was just gaining on them for ages and it just kept me going. and and moving through the field. so Yeah, it was.

Speaker: That was very much I just ran my own race. it happened to be. quite good. like it it worked out really well. Yeah. Yeah, nice well When you're saying now that you think that's the best race of your life.

Speaker: Is there... a pressure going into the next one like it's lighting up for she has an hour it's arguably the biggest race and in the world. Are you... trying to chase that feeling again.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, that was that was probably the hard thing. if and when we come to this, like with C as in R, because... So that was, I ran two hours. just under two hours 20. Um...

Speaker: The Kenyans, so the mountain running World Cup Kenyans ran. uh i think 207 so i was about 10 to 12 minutes behind them in a a two plus hour race And then you look at. See you as an hour. Cheers.

Speaker: maybe 20 minutes longer in terms of time. I've definitely done the maths to think like, okay, well, if I'm that percentage behind them. Here, this is my potential at CSNL. Um,

Speaker: So having that in the back of my head. put a bit of pressure on and now post -race. ah adds ah an element to my reflection. on how I went in that race because That's maybe where I redefined my potential being.

Speaker: But I had a really good day that day, so I don't want to. I can't be too hard on myself. Yeah, and it's also like... replicate that again so easy to make comparisons to other people but you don't know what their like you don't know what their focus is so like Philemon 1. in Transvulcania. He also won on the weekend, yeah?

Speaker: yeah Yeah, that's years and now. But... for see as an hour like on the I've sort of re -watched some of the coverage when I was at the gym yesterday, and they were talking about how like this is the he hasn't done all the Golden Trail races. This is the race that he wanted to win this year. um or the first goal that his first big goal so like csnr was was his focus and like Anthony Felber came second only just behind him and he was probably a little bit further back at Cieza now. I think he ran. um maybe top 20.

Speaker: it's easy It's very easy to compare yourself to other people, but it can also be ah dangerous. Yeah, and it it's too often like we all like analyze our race and like, oh, if I was a little bit quicker here, I'd have a better day. Yeah, you have no idea what the other people had.

Speaker: um or the day that they had. um So yeah, it's super dangerous. i so I say I'm doing it, but know just how toxic it is at the same time. Yeah, yeah. And you look at like your...

Speaker: right since years and i was like this i feel like there's so many people looking up back afterwards and being like what what could have been like just in front of you i think i was watching was like that uh asics athlete the triathlete who's taking up trial running is it briffid or biff oh yeah yeah adrian and he was only just like he was only just in front of you whereas he was like at the front He was literally leading the front of the race for the first like 2K. Yeah. And...

Speaker: And then you've got Cam Smith, I think, who wasn't too far ahead of you either. And he's came second at Broken Arrow VK. So it's like, obviously... People have their days on different days and it's it's very easy to be like, oh, well, i could have like this is what I could have been and therefore disappointed with what you've done. but Yeah. I think it's always good to sort of take it back into perspective and go, well, that's the that's the day that I had there. Like I left it all out there. I didn't do anything.

Speaker: different maybe analysing, seeing what what could have gone. better but not sort of being too hard on yourself i think is always important Yeah. i mean Do you you want to talk CSNL? Is this a nice segue? Yeah, well, maybe maybe we do do that now. Like in the lead up to CSNL, you've been in Europe for how many weeks? Is it four or five?

Speaker: uh mid june i got here so we're we're nearing two months Yeah, okay. So you've been you've been over there for a while. It wasn't like you got off the plane and you've been in the mountains, you've been racing. um Has everything been... Sorry, Brady, before you go forward. just because we we caught up, Ian was over there. You were in the UK.

Speaker: Prior. to... See you guys now. Oh, true, true. Yeah, just before. and And you were saying before about like what what has changed between the Transylvania build to this. even like You're stuck in London with a treadmill at best.

Speaker: and flying but basically have to drive a long way to get onto any decent hills like well they basically don't exist in the uk at least not in their london or you've got to fly to europe like so it is quite a significant difference Yeah, yeah, like I never want to have to train for a mountain run. again in London. Yeah.

Speaker: I brought up a James for anyone that... Would well you no one would know this I caught up with James and then had a whinge over dinner about how hard it is to train in london for various reasons but Yeah. The other ones that I hate, like, it's just... been relentlessly hot over here And.

Speaker: i Like, I know we come from Australia, but... Ah. like The sun's up. sort of before five o 'clock so If you're out the door at eight, for example, the sun is properly up and you're actually really in the heat of the day already um And that in London made it quite hard. It was it was really stuffy as well. um but i got i i knew what it was happening going into it and i had a few good sessions uh in london that prepared and probably contributed to

Speaker: ah my result. being okay at CSNL and something I'm... i'm happy with it could have been a lot worse that's for sure yeah The um the racing that you did do, you raced in Switzerland, you raced in Chamonix.

Speaker: Um, did Was that? Sort of, you were saying before how Transvulcania was an A race. Was CSNL the A race of this block, or is there something... Still coming. ahead or were those races building up for this?

Speaker: Yes, he has an hour with the IRAs. um I basically did like Chamonix VK and half marathon, which. didn't go well. Um... then I think the next two weekends I did a VK on the Saturday and the Sunday.

Speaker: um So they were just doing bulk racing and kind of just fell into being C races, let's even call them. But yeah, C as in R was the first. eros uh And then...

Speaker: I actually only have a couple like the next one. We'll see how we go. I'm not sure what's going on with it if if Sky running world championships. goes ahead for Australia and I'm in the team, then... That would probably.

Speaker: B and A race, if I get to go to that. fully VK, which is the weekend after probably as well. um But yeah, between those and CSNL, they're the ones that I would sacrifice other things for. The rest is...

Speaker: bit of fun. Yeah. And then... we talked You talked a little bit about like the reasons behind wanting to head to Transvolcano or how you heard about that. like what What was the allure to of What was the thing that made you make that your A race? because it's so iconic i probably didn't even appreciate how iconic it is um i was still learning facts about it like the the night before the race but yeah it's also a lottery entry like i know i knew it was

Speaker: one of, if not the most competitive races in the world. And... I just thought. like i'm lucky to be able to race this race i may never get a chance to race it again um it's not some local vk like this is a big deal race so i need to give it the respect it deserves And I also like... I also knew a good result at CSNR, like if I had I really like. if i ran out of my skin for example like that would mean something I didn't, spoiler alert, but like... ah

Speaker: Yeah. It's a place where a good result can really... make make something of like your running career not saying i was chasing like a big sponsorship deal or something but like if you walked away from cs and alan had a blinder uh That's you could really.

Speaker: Think back on that for the rest of your life, I reckon. For sure. And even just like the time. bonuses there. People... depending on how much they know about CSNL. But if you run under a certain time, you get a certain amount of money. um And you get to go up on stage, I believe, or when I was there, at least like I think 40 people were up on stage because they were under a certain time. Yeah, so if you're under two hours 40, you get up on stage and then two hours 50.

Speaker: for men um two hours 50 from two hours 50s where you start getting performance bonuses so it's it's pretty Cool in that. regard Well, there's so many cool things about CSNL, but that is...

Speaker: One of the elements, like you said, where like if you have a good day, there is... even if you're not. Because you... You're going to strip. Like. Getting in the top 10 is probably... outside of...

Speaker: most people's dreams even, but even just having a great day for yourself, there's those sort of like bonuses associated with them. Like you said, you can look back and go, wow. I ran that race and I ran an incredible time. where like there is that sort of recognition of the time as well with the with the positions and with the with the money and going up on stage if you have a really good run. it's um Yeah it's pretty cool in that regard. yeah yeah it's probably similar to like fully vk in

Speaker: In terms of, I don't think people really... but There's obviously like... Achilleans won it seven times and people remember that kind of stuff. But for the... Let's call it the mid.

Speaker: front of the pack runners. Just the time that you run is something you can rest your laurels on. Like, you know, what's your city as an hour time? What's your fully time? It doesn't people. don't need to know that you came top 10 like there's yeah doing well is uh something within its ah own right whereas Uh,

Speaker: you know those smaller local races really it's about like where you finished in the field as opposed to your time but these ones are so well established like you can come. like i think to go under three hours which is an achievement like you were top 80.

Speaker: on the weekend or top 90 or something wild like that. um No one's going to remember the fact that you came 87th. a sub three hours is you know. an achievement on that course kind of thing yeah i think i can remember my position but more importantly, I can remember the time.

Speaker: because the position was outside 100. But the time was the time was the the thing that sticks in your mind. So it is ah it is pretty cool. But yeah, like you said, that is an incredibly deep race. Like we think of...

Speaker: The Golden Trial series as... as competitive and it is um but this is like the This is... Given there's only one distance, you get... people from all different.

Speaker: Backgrounds of running. running it. That's one thing. It's Golden Trail and World Mountain Running together. And it's just... on top of that also just iconic and you've got so many people wanting to run it Um, That it is.

Speaker: Yeah, so so crazily competitive. Like we know just like one of the things that popped into my mind when I was looking at the results was we know how dominant El Huzin's been this year as well as the last few years in Golden Trail and he wasn't. in the top 10.

Speaker: Like it just showed. How? how deep this race was. Um, all the way back to like you said 100 probably 200 you still got people i don't know how like what the time is at 200, but it it it is very deep. But it is also such a cool race with like...

Speaker: it's not just an elite race there's people running that course all day um and they have a lot of people doing it i have one of my friends um one of my older friends a few years ago who was like asking me about like what race should i do and i was like so yes and i was the one i would do and he went and did it and he was like that was the coolest thing i've ever done And he was like a a four hour finisher or something like that, maybe four and a half. But it is.

Speaker: Yeah, it's such an iconic race. and like Watching you this weekend, Ian, and like seeing the race unfold was like brought back so many like memories. It was my first big European race and it was just...

Speaker: I don't know. It's just... It's so cool. There's nothing. They say Zagama is Zagama, but I don't know. I think CSNL might have it for me as being like the most iconic. trial race when I think of Think of races that I've.

Speaker: sort of scene and that that is on the circuit. Yeah, there was like 6 ,000 people running. which is crazy. Wow, so cool. Like UTA is what, 8 ,000? but over five different distances. This is 6 ,000 people over.

Speaker: won a 30k race. And a point -to -point race as well, which logistically is the toughest race to put on, like the toughest event to try and put on. And they put six hours over 6 ,000 people through that course within.

Speaker: Thank you. 10 hours. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. All right. I've got the... So so I was going to say the the men's 50 to 75, because I was curious where... where the two hour 50 cutoff would be so you had to come 58th or faster uh in this but in that in that selection of 25 guys i need to start talking about the depth You've got names like Roberto De Lorenzi, Davide.

Speaker: Magnini. Daniel Sands, Peter Engdahl. There was another one down here is Joey had dawn like these are in the golden trail series or otherwise like some of the names are often seeing winning races or podiums And good. they probably haven't had their best day, but.

Speaker: Like that that's quite a few of them. back there. It's just it's such a it's it's such a cool event. to look back through the results. using the fact that we have something like this that so many people want to go to year after year And.

Speaker: Just... be a part of is yeah Definitely. a ah high on the bucket list one to do. I was just having a look. there's also like the um This is the race where like obviously you can you can get in as an elite. which is...

Speaker: somewhat hard but you can also just enter it um or go into the lottery um And there's some really good people that do it. Like, I don't know what... I was trying try to find your place, Ian, in the...

Speaker: Elite Race. Do you know what it was off the top of your head? Yeah, it was like 128, I think. But then on the... On the like the overall with all the men.

Speaker: it's like 130 because there's obviously some people that have run earlier in the day probably maybe got better conditions we can call it that but like you've still got people and sometimes you've got these like 45 year olds just crushing it running like sub three it's crazy um yeah obviously there's that so many incredible runners over there but there's just like so many people want to do this race and and push. to their limit, which is yeah it's really cool.

Speaker: Yeah, I think like on the the the free trial summary of... El Huzain. is really eye -opening like a guy that's average placing across his career of 2 .7, like an average podium finish.

Speaker: across his trail running career and i think they said like he's average at

Speaker: CSNR is 48th. um I'm pretty sure. Did you do 2022? I did 2022, yeah. So he finished behind you in 2022. Did he? He was like 150. Oh, what a scout. day has gone That has made my day, Ian. I would i would update. I don't know whether you've raced him in any other races. If you haven't, I would change your Strava like your strava bio to be 1 -0 against El Huzain. He DNF'd on the weekend, so I'm doing that as well. He's technically our best. Yeah, true.

Speaker: That's great. Yeah, no I don't know if I've raced him at all. So, yeah, 1 -0. Like, Cesar now has a good record for me. I think it's my contributor to Charlie will love this if he's listening because I've got 2 -0 against Charlie. One was at Cesar now and the other one he...

Speaker: Black. hurt his ankle really bad and had to dnf so we won't count that but i got i still got one and zero with charlie because i've never raised him since Yeah, that's the way to do it. i wouldn't I wouldn't touch him again for the rest of your life. Yeah, i don't think i don't think it's I don't think I'll ever beat him again in my life, so it's best to just not race him. Fantastic. All right. Well, let's so let's hear about it. we've talked it we've We've hyped it up a lot. um tell us about the race tell us about your experience because it is

Speaker: It is quite such a special course but also just ah a special event to be a part of. How did it how did it all go down? Yeah, so... ohll I'll put up front, oh yeah I'm going to say like the negative aspects of this race. Well, not negative, but like I'm going to talk about how hard it is.

Speaker: I think upfront, like I was happy, like, um, I didn't run a mind blowing time or anything, but I left what I had on the day out there on the course. Like, um, and I'm definitely not looking for excuses to say, well, if, if this element changed, I would have run half an hour quicker. Cause I wouldn't have, that was, that was what I had on Saturday. but the The way I would summarize he has an hour to anyone that's like.

Speaker: not run at is It's basically like a hilly half marathon. It's 21 Ks with 600 meters of climbing and a thousand meters of descending. on not super technical trails.

Speaker: trails But the caveat is you have to do. 10 Ks of running with 1500 meters of climbing within that 10 Ks is ah a true VK of 5 Ks and a thousand meter gain.

Speaker: You have to... do it on a day that's 30 degrees and start at 11 a .m And you have to be like surrounded by. the most competitive field you've ever been in so if you take your foot off the gas at any point like three people will just fly past you um i think like on paper the the the course looks really doable, but just the combination of factors made it probably one of the toughest races I reckon I've been part of. like It was just hard. I found it really hard.

Speaker: um So. Yeah, it was. It was 27 degrees on the start line. And that's not a gripe because I think that's fairly average. I was reading something before that was saying this was an average year. So some years they have had a lot worse.

Speaker: ah But like still roasting hot and I suffered. almost immediately i found i was like managing myself on that climb straight away so the thing that i consider my strength Like. Got it. Film, by the way, is hard.

Speaker: Um... and you get the the climb basically ends when you get to a town called chandelin there's like a ski village uh at about 11 and a half k's and i think by that point i was I was ah like mentally ready to give up running because It was just... It was hard. The whole field was moving past me.

Speaker: um But I immediately noticed after chandelier was distinctly noticeable i don't think anyone passed me after that point like the field started coming back to me and the deterioration and like the attrition in the race was i've never seen anything like it like there's people vomiting on the side of the road like elites because you can tell them apart by their bibs just like crawling along the path.

Speaker: So when I talk about being a morale vampire, like... Extrinsically, I was able to be dragged along because everyone else seemed to be suffering a lot worse than I was, and it gave me a kick. but um that's the kind of the half marathon that i was talking about where you get to the end of this climb and it's not like, okay, we'll just...

Speaker: cruise along the top here you have to that hammer at over 2 ,000 meters. um like the elites are dropping to what like 330s along the top there to get it done.

Speaker: But yeah, I'd never seen that attrition. And even in front of me, like, as you said, like Peter Engdahl, Adrian Brifford, like it was happening all the way to the front of the race, like elites just. falling off the pace.

Speaker: Um... And the other thing I did... which was really cool, is they bus all the spectators up to different parts of the course and set up fan zones. which was... ah That part was really cool as well. so like Hotel Weishorn.

Speaker: which I think we'll come to because it's maybe now a little bit notorious with what happened in the women's race. But just after that was like the biggest fan zone. um So I got up water at this aid station and then you're running through like a classic European tunnel of people.

Speaker: Um, and i started i feel a bit good and i got a bit silly and i started like spraying my water in the air um so it was raining on me and everyone and they went like i don't want to swear but they went absolutely mental Um,

Speaker: And it went absolutely nuts for me. It was like a real high point of the day. And then immediately I was like, I probably could have used that water. Yeah. But ah yeah, you get you kind of get over the top of that point and then you got like this long flowy descent up there.

Speaker: 5k I reckon. And then you hit this light glass. three k's which is quite technical down into so yeah none of it's pretty like as a uh person who's not a great descender like i was still overtaking people at that point um But yeah, you you just like, it feels like you're constantly accelerating throughout the race. Like you do this.

Speaker: Steep climb that's got a VK in it. You get to the end of that and it flattens out and you feel like you need to accelerate as you do the last sort of like. 13 k's and 600 meters climbing uh and then you go over the top and you got this flowy descent and you feel like you have to accelerate again and you just constantly having to find something else.

Speaker: Ah. And I... Yeah. I probably paced it quite well because I think I probably made up 20 to 30 spots. over that second half of the race. So even though I felt like I was suffering in the heat. ah relative to the field or where I was in the field, it wasn't.

Speaker: that terrible. But I was like... Once I got to Zenal, I was absolutely cooked. I feel like I've done. a I've felt better off 100k race than I have. Ah.

Speaker: how I see it and the way I feel right now. um i had to I had to stop the bus on the way down and hop off before we got back to Sierre. uh just because everything that i'd Tried to eat and drink after the race.

Speaker: Came straight back up. and then the bus. the bus drove off and i had to like walk 4ks into town uh in the haze that sucked as well um but Yeah, I just felt absolutely rubbish.

Speaker: which i I personally struggle with, like a hot race. I struggle at best at times to really get a lot of fluids in, which I do need. But then when you... you know, you're sitting at 160. like in some of those higher zones. they ah The only way for me to get more water on is to slow down. which you don't exactly want to do so Yeah.

Speaker: that is i'm sorry that was all over the place that was kind of my experience but yeah i I would summarize, and people that have asked me, like I found that to be a really hard race just by... the combination of factors. And I can see exactly why people like Elhazine and some of those big names.

Speaker: didn't get it right because You get one thing wrong. and the race It's such a fast race. If you come off the pace. for even a little bit like or you you just hit like that wall and you have to drop it back I think the field moves on. 10 to 15 minutes from you.

Speaker: uh and that's how you end up with like adrian brifford who's you know a 900 itra runner finishing. a couple of minutes ahead of me Yeah. Right. Yeah, it's...

Speaker: if you get it perfectly you can have a blinder if you don't get it perfectly this There's no middle ground I think on that course. I was looking at the... ah stas You can click click click on your name and the results and it gives you all your positioning. And in the overall in the men's. Chandelier 151. And with 100 meters to go, you were 127. You then apparently lost three positions in the last 100 meters. so Yeah, I saw that. mike Might need to work on your kick a bit. but Yeah. Yeah. The thing I...

Speaker: it's interesting though is that you were oh no sorry it did come down yeah and that that was the same for the elites as well but yeah I think when you're looking at being 127th, you're going to be... around people the whole time.

Speaker: and how you were feeling by the end. Do you feel like... In this environment where you've got so many people around you and there's always the next person to chase, which is it can be rare. Often in Australia, you're at the front of these sort of races doing your own thing a bit or just trying to stay first.

Speaker: Do you reckon that allowed you to push yourself? A bit extra than normal? It did. It meant like... I was, there was no taking it off. So like GSER 28. uh which for those unfamiliar is very similar like 1500 meter climb and then kind of a half marathon along the razorback and into Hotham.

Speaker: Yeah. Thank you even at the front of the field like the the first 10 people i think were just running their own race because they they wouldn't have been able to see each other or maybe saw one other person whereas yeah this one like i just found If I took my foot off, I was passed immediately by three people. um The Beyond there was always someone just ahead of me.

Speaker: Ah. and it was great because there was always someone just ahead of me that seemed worse than i was so like I was just constantly in my head like... okay i'm not i'm not the worst person on this course like I felt like it at Chandler and I was ready to pack it in. Like I wasn't going to, I wanted to finish it, but like. I think if the field had kept moving past me I would have really struggled mentally. But yeah, the fact that you can always drag someone in. It really did.

Speaker: Sort of give me a kick up the arse. I like how you've managed to use GSER where you were quite comfortably by sort of 10 or 15 minutes ahead of Brodie in second. Oh, was I? Oh. I got that. Sorry. Well, I wasn't going to mention it, but Ian, what time did you run at CSNL? Oh, no.

Speaker: Yeah, I am. i Actually, like I put Brodie's activity on my watch. because i thought like some Well, Sub Brody's time would be great, but like he ran around. I very kindly shared my TCX, which had my time, not just my GPX. so I was giving Ian all he needed to beat me.

Speaker: It didn't work. it um it Hey. I had the goal time as 2 hours 35, so like... I didn't realize that. I was like 10 minutes into the climb and it was like, you're eight minutes off the pace. I was like, what? Like how hard did Brody go out?

Speaker: Yeah, it was I was not running 235, I wish. um You did. I was just comparing. Actually, I pulled up my result from 2022. We were very comparable. Similar, I was a little bit faster at the start. um And then, like you said, in that section.

Speaker: to the weasel and then pass there to the top of the descent you were gaining time on me um and then i got a little bit back on you on the descent but um yeah probably It looks like I maybe had a similar race, but I felt like I was limping it in. So um I think there's ah on that course, there's always someone who's limping it in more than you are because they went out too hard. so um Yeah. yeah to That's it.

Speaker: That's what I mean. It's not hard at all. is Ian going to beat my time? Is Ian going to beat my time? I was like refreshing you and they had so many time points and it was like there was a There was like 16 time points. so It was great to follow um yeah the splits.

Speaker: um And I was like, oh, I think I might get him. and uh yeah there was a chance there it was really when i hit the technical stuff right at the end i was like ass slipping away from me i was um Yeah. there was There was a moment there where I was like, this might happen. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, because I knew you were 123 to the chandelier, and I think I was through in 126. Um, Hmm. but Yeah that's right. Right. come back next year maybe next time you have to go back and get it again i really want to go back and run again because i was like oh i can go sub three hours um listening to your experience and watching on the weekend i'm like can i go sub three hours maybe that was much better than i thought it was yeah that's what i was telling you before i think i think like You had a good run.

Speaker: um particularly because you did the same as me and moved through the field in the second half of the race. And this is one of those things where, like, I could say I climbed really badly but... I made up a lot of places in the second half of the race. so like if I went harder at the start.

Speaker: Does that same thing happen? Like you you can't change one element and not change the other. That's just naivety to think, oh, I'll just drop five minutes on the climb. like yeah but what happens after the climb like can you still do what you did yeah definitely um how do you feel like on reflection now i know you did a bit of

Speaker: tried to do some specific training for years and now is there anything you would do different or sessions that you would do different i know there's this like iconic session that people talk about, the VK10K training for Cieza now, and that you did something sort of like similar, but would you do...

Speaker: Do you think that sort of training is useful specifically for this type of race? Is it something you would do more of if you were to come back? Yeah, I think that, like, the so there's... The sessions I was doing was an hour on the treadmill at 15%.

Speaker: and then an hour tempo outside. um And again, like based on how I moved relative to the field, I think that was quite good. I didn't. realize that the climb was so steep though like that it had a vk in the middle um It's not like, say, GSER, which when you go up Feathertop.

Speaker: is kind of 10 to 15 percent at most and runnable the whole way like um This was very steep in the middle. And I think I could have better prepared for that bit.

Speaker: And the one thing I kind of struggled, I think, with is um like You get onto these climbs like... And I was surrounded by people, there were so many people. It was the second most jam -packed I've felt on a trail outside of the World Champs uphill work. It was like that train smash at the bottleneck at 600 metres last year.

Speaker: But when the... like you're amongst a group of people and when they all slow down to hike It also like it throws your rhythm. Yeah. And it takes a lot of energy to kind of break out of that, I find, because then We were in a conga line and the conga line went as far as I could see up the hill so if you want to overtake someone you're overtaking. 10 to 20 people off.

Speaker: the main line of the trail. Um, Anyway, I'm going around. uh circles to basically say like i think Being prepared for that climb in the steep section of it and being able to move well through there. uh it's something i could have maybe done a bit better the treadmill at 15 didn't quite uh replicate that for me so um yeah finding finding a way to do that and just being able to like tempo that climb. Like.

Speaker: gser referencing but i've been up for the top so many times i knew the effort i could do up that and then off that. um if i had the time to train on the course i would get my client perfect so i knew the exact tempo effort for that climb that I could then hammer.

Speaker: Um, the last half marathon. off the back of. yeah because like to have a great race you're theoretically like obviously it's not flat completely. But you have to be able to run like.

Speaker: your Optimal half marathon. after doing a big climb to get your best possible time. So you you can't really afford to be too cooked. Um...

Speaker: after the climb. Otherwise. there's a lot of running to be done. And a lot of... fairly runnable running as well. where you need to be able to be smooth moving as much as you can.

Speaker: so yeah i think that's yeah I'd love to see you come back and do it again at some point because it would be yeah a very cool thing. And he did. Yeah. See how many Aussies we get. I definitely want to.

Speaker: I didn't immediately. Feel that way? ive felt quite terrible, like physically. um but now like on reflection i'm like yeah i can see how Other people that you see in social media and stuff, you see people saying like, oh, I ran this time. like I ah can't wait to get back in.

Speaker: Or they put up all the times they've run and their progression and stuff. like go Yeah. I think. going back and giving it another red hot crack. That would be good. I think the the element that you can't control and...

Speaker: is probably worth noting for everyone, is the heat. You're starting at 11 o 'clock. It's not something we do in Australia. Like this would be the equivalent of having a race in December. That starts at 11 o 'clock.

Speaker: we would never do that Um, it's Yeah. Thank you. it was so hot on the start line i put like ice under a handful of ice under my cap with 10 minutes to go and it it had melted. before I started the race. Um,

Speaker: And you obviously have to like. there was a thousand people in the first wave that i was part of You had to join that 15 minutes before. So it's a 27 degree day and you're standing amongst a thousand dudes.

Speaker: um Yeah. it's Yeah, that's not a hotline in my life. it's quite exposed as well once you get on to the runnable section like there is Bits of forest, but you are essentially alpine. um So even though it's a bit cooler.

Speaker: Once you get. to the elevation you're also at altitude but just completely in the sun and So it's yeah it's ah it's definitely the the heat and exposure. of that race is.

Speaker: And I think even the altitude is a bit. uh under recognized especially for people who are coming from places where you don't have much altitude you're doing a half marathon at altitude essentially Um,

Speaker: Those things are hard to train for, I guess, but yeah. Do what you. Good to do do what you can next time to be as prepared as possible. Yeah, yeah. I keep stressing that it's hard because I think anyone that's listening that wants to do it. I maybe underestimated it at a touch. I knew it was going to be tough, but like.

Speaker: If you just do a map reconnaissance of this. It doesn't look terrible. But just all the elements make it really challenging. Like there's stacks of aid stations. They all have the sponges. as you said like you're at altitude in the heat and it was dry and

Speaker: so i'd sponge myself down be soaking wet and five minutes later i was going dry again yeah Just hoping for the next one. And did you have, I know you're over there traveling with your family, were they able to meet you at the finish or get out on course? I know you have young kids, so maybe that was a bit tricky. Were you sort of doing it solo, no no crew per se?

Speaker: No, they're able to get up to Zanal, actually. Like, there's stacks of cool spectator buses. This is the other thing, like the 6 ,000 runners doing a point -to -point race. up into like the high Alps.

Speaker: And then they move all the spectators as well. So it's well over 10 ,000 people that I reckon they're shifting up and down the valley. throughout the day. um and that yeah we were We basically, I sort of said like the vibe of this is really cool. You should try and get to the finish. And then they were able to just jump on a bus. that was sitting at the station and it worked out quite well.

Speaker: Um... and my wife like she was sitting me next to some 85 year old lady on the bus who was just going to zanal to watch the race didn't have anyone didn't know anyone in the race um she was just a local that was like yeah this is cool Um, That's the Alps. That's the other thing I noticed. Like, you fly into Geneva.

Speaker: There's billboards on the side of the roads, there's posters in the trains, like the trains and buses have TVs that have ads for CSNL on them. um the advertising for the whole event is everywhere across like switzerland Um,

Speaker: which like the race sold out months ago so the only purpose i can see for the advertisement is to basically Build the hype. amongst the local community. Which I think is evident by... by the number of people on the course.

Speaker: uh i think it's actually quite good i don't know whether i don't think uta do that I don't know whether UTMB do, but like... I think that really... Ah. They really invested in making this a welcome part of.

Speaker: the community definitely it felt massive when i was there and like when i went i had like 10 orienteers with me who i was coaching at at the World University Champs like the week after and we'd all sort of traveled there after a training camp to watch me race. So I had 10 people crewing me, which was epic. But like I think a lot of people bring. people with them and like you said there's also people just there to experience it. And it is the sort of event where you can.

Speaker: go to and have a great time not racing as well. so Yeah, I would. Highly recommend people put it on your bucket list. um try and get into it one day because it is. Such a unique and and special race. um And it was, yeah.

Speaker: he gave me It was great having you there this weekend, Ian, because it gave me so much nostalgia and I had such a great time. time remembering my time there so thank you for doing that yeah and i didn't beat your time so that probably like made it yeah which is just a cherry on top Yeah, it is so so so good. I can pretend I'm still an elite athlete, so it's great.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah Fantastic. um what's ah What's on next for you? You're saying that ah hopefully if if the Skyrunning World Champs team comes together, you'll head there. What are you doing?

Speaker: in the meantime before you head over to that's in in spain is it yeah so next weekend i'm doing a vk um That's just a little bit of fun in the French Alps. Not a steep one, actually, a 2K VK.

Speaker: Then I'll be back to Europe because we're balancing. I said back to the UK because we're balancing time between the UK and Europe. um that'll just be a training block and then the start of september Buh -bye.

Speaker: Back over to Anna C for... I think seven weeks. um and there's I got stacks of EKs kind of booked and lined up. Yeah. the Sky Running World Champs are on the, around the 20th. uh fully vk is around the 27th or 26 i think Ah. And so left and right of those two, there's just...

Speaker: It's actually a really iconic VK. window if you if you know your vks which there's There's no reason to actually really know these names, but there's there's a handful of really cool races ah in that period. which I've just signed up to. Is that area like the epicenter of...

Speaker: sort of vks or sort of well -known vks in your sort of humble opinion of being the vk connoisseur Yeah, so... I basically made a calendar of Anyway, so I went through all the European racing calendars from like last year to see what was on last year and then like what was coming up.

Speaker: and i just built every race and then i was able to like extract the ones i wanted to do So even though I've got on some weekends, like two races, there's one weekend where I could do three. I could do one in the morning of Saturday, one in the hour, one in Sunday. day um The double VK. I love that. Please do it.

Speaker: um they' They're just everywhere. So like there's the Hobcon around the Annecy, that's sort of the French Alps. Pop. It's not too far but it is a bit far. You can then duck over to um the Aosta side of Italy. which has stacks as well.

Speaker: Then you go. the um out for the east in italy that's another little hub of them switzerland has like yeah they're they're everywhere but in terms of accessibility i've deliberately chose annecy because um geographically like it has access to a couple of like the ski valleys of the french alps so you can duck up into different parts quite comfortably um

Speaker: But yeah, racing every weekend, I could. I could do double that just in that region alone. let alone anywhere else. That's cool. Iconic wise. stacks that are iconic there, but I also don't know what's iconic to a European.

Speaker: True. It's a pretty nice base as well. Like Annecy looks, I've never actually been to Annecy before, but it's like top of my list of places I want to go to now because I've been to a lot of different places in Europe and it's one of that I haven't and it just looks.

Speaker: So beautiful and like such a nice base, like nice, beautiful lake, but also mountains like right there. I feel like it. And it also probably ticks the family. the family box a bit as well, I'm assuming.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It ticked to every kind of box. And I think like training wise, so you've got the lake, which has a bike path and you can run flat around it. one side of the valley has like more runnable hills and one side of the oh sorry one side of the lake and one side of the lake has like more steeper and gnarly hill so you can kind of pick and choose.

Speaker: what you train on. which is and a luxury you get everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. All right, well, we'll keep an eye out for that triple VK. Very excited to see that one come together. The triple race weekend, yeah. Yeah, make sure you post them on Strava so we can see them. That's what we yeah's all what we want. Nice one. well ah

Speaker: Yeah, someone else who's been in Europe ah for a bit. James you've just got back from your trip um do you want to tell us a little bit about what you got up to over there it looked pretty amazing you went to some beautiful places a quick break in the show to thank Bix.

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Speaker: Yeah, it was a... great few weeks we we it was centered around as my mom my mom's 70th at the start of august so Shiv and I went back to celebrate that with her and the rest of the the family. So we spent a week at one of the lakes just north of Milan, Lake Maggiore.

Speaker: i think it's the one across from garda if you go ah West from Lake Garda which is kind of the more famous one but That was just spectacular. the not it's it's I wouldn't say it's a church. trail running destination there are

Speaker: a lot of trails up there but they've been very very poorly maintained so a lot of them don't exist um A lot of them are ah very overgrown. Very technical. But... Yeah, the lake itself was just... Stunning. um we we We had a place that was on on the lake as well. So you just finish a run, go into the water. It was pretty.

Speaker: pretty perfect and mum had a really nice time and then shiv and i went across to the dolomites we're staying just outside of cortina which is never...

Speaker: It's something we always hear about. ah That's where Lavaredo is. um starting in and out of Cortina. and it had crossed my radar Bye. going there and seeing the area. Like Lavorito's race is now very high up on the bucket list and going back there. I think Lavorito's like top of my bucket list races. and The Dolomites are amazing.

Speaker: It was just, like i've spent I spent so much time in the mountains. And. This has got... I think it probably is the most. Beautiful, spectacular. jaw -dropping area i've ever been to it's um yeah everywhere you look spectacular views trail access was was really good one of the things she said is like there's Not that many places where as a female you can feel completely safe in a...

Speaker: foreign environment going out on the trails on your own. And she said like, that's just one of the places where she she felt so pleased. which did she say Did she say why? Um.

Speaker: Atta - Yes. Just people were friendly? but Yeah. I think it's... An element of friendliness, obviously Cortina for anyone that hasn't gone there. It's a very posh resort. obviously massive ski resort but it's very clean you feel very It it just it feels like an environment where you're not really at risk or anything. And then the trails are...

Speaker: especially after sort of 9am, they're very busy. So you kind of always got something going on, but in a good way around you, like, yeah new yes, you can go out. off the main trails and get a bit more isolated but even there she said that she'd never felt So.

Speaker: kind of un uneasy anywhere so that was that was awesome and and then just like in in france there are Ruffin. Refugees, refugios everywhere as well. So we're never that far from anything. And we did we do the kind of the main touristy stuff. The main sites. which I would definitely recommend again, it just gets very busy. So we did most of them. We would.

Speaker: get up early, get up there for sunrise. Do. a hike or run around and then be. coming off them just as all the crowds hit them and it really was like crowds so i would if if you're not adverse to getting up early i would definitely recommend doing that to see the main sites because they are like they're spectacular and they're beautiful and going through the old uh world war ii bunkers and exploring all that it's definitely worth doing but yeah so that was a cortina was great when we had five days there and then we drove

Speaker: across Italy into Chamonix. and then did the TMB loop over five days, which... Originally we were going to do it over six and then we realized that we could cancel one of the Airbnbs still. and change from starting. The original plan was starting in Les Houches. We started in Chamonix.

Speaker: So that could kind of make us do it over five. If we were to do it again, I think we would definitely do it over four, if not even maybe. Push for three. Because we found that... doing it as a fast pack where you're hiking the Crimes. Hello. jogging the flats and sort of shuffling down the hills.

Speaker: you feel fine the next day but you're still able to cover a decent amount of ground. I think we were. ah Too long this day as well. about 42 45k and you're done and seven hours or so, seven and a half hours. so it and then you ah you woke up you know the don't have the normal doms of a big long run or anything like that um so and it was nice to It.

Speaker: I've thoroughly enjoyed. My only job was to wake up, eat. Go play in the mountains for... Entire day. Eat, go to bed. and repeat like there was it's it's the first time i've ever taken like a period off well, I've kind of said to everyone I coach, like,

Speaker: I'm offline partly because... you don't have reception everywhere like call me if there's an emergency But. Essentially, i I tried to disconnect for a few days, which maybe... Feel very uneventful. For all of us that you are offline except for Strava.

Speaker: yeah yeah and like you have you have signal at the end of every day where where you're staying so it can always like if there's a message being like hey this just happened i can always reply to that but it's um it was nice to sort of just put the phone on. on night mode basically and just switch off and be try and be really present with where you were and what we were doing and I was chatting to Billy Curtis about.

Speaker: about this, ah him with his partner, Abby. it's Add another layer when you get to do this with person you love who's also like your best friend and you just get to go spend so much time. out there And then yeah now looking back on it. it Kind of feels like. it went by in a flash but you have so many little memories and random conversations and Yeah, it was a... Be...

Speaker: Beautiful track again. i feel like i'm saying this because we we definitely did choose two of the main hiking touristy spots. it does get very busy and i'm kind of glad i wasn't trying to run more of it because it would get quite frustrating i think doing the TMB loop.

Speaker: specifically but Yeah, we we were out early most mornings. and Until you got... The refuges serve breakfast at 7, 7 .30. So then most people hit the trail 8, 8 .30. So the window from, in our case, sort of 5, 5 .30 until then. So the first three hours of the day. you got pretty much to yourselves. And by that time, you were normally up somewhere high. you just watch sunrise and Pretty spectacular.

Speaker: Yeah, wow. looked Looked very epic. and um Yes, definitely something I've thought about doing, but now I've seen so many people do it recently. that it's just something that I, yeah, that's definitely on the list. And like that experience of like, I feel like the fast packing is so fun for, for someone who. for people who push hard in training and that sort of stuff it's so nice just to like

Speaker: dial it back a little bit go for a bit longer but like you're still exerting yourself but in such a way that you can do it for a long period of time it's more it's just enjoyable there is there is not really the discomfort component really um i did a similar thing around the keema course in 2024 and it's still Like.

Speaker: One of the things I've... remember being like that is possibly one of the coolest experiences I've ever had in my life. and i think yeah it's just It's so cool when, like you said, doing it with someone.

Speaker: uh i did it with a couple of a few friends and it was just like we would get to the refugio and play cards and yeah and make ourselves shandies with the we'd order a beer and a lemonade because we didn't want to have too many beers so we'd make ourselves shandies it was so good and they'd be like staring at us being like why are you pouring lemonade in your beer but um Yeah. So good. Yeah.

Speaker: I've... I'm not a big fan of hiking. It's just too slow for me and I don't like the size of the packs. um So this was a nice middle ground of, I think my pack, like I was carrying a bit more of the stuff. I think maybe it weighed. seven and a half kilos probably at his heaviest. um i

Speaker: Bye. picked up. had I had never tried it before. I got a an Innovate FastPaks. FastPaks turns out... Not super easy to find over here. which I didn't really... didn't didn't think about. and Some of them were sold out. the pack was awesome so anyone that is thinking about it i definitely would recommend it um But...

Speaker: It. you just kind of... chuck your stuff in. Once you get used to it, you don't really notice the extra weight. And then you can still move quickly through the mountains, but... yeah said You're not. you're not fatigued from it. So you can see a lot, do a lot. take take it all in enjoy it by slowing down but not slowing down so much that it takes you an entire day to cover 10k which was.

Speaker: Nice. Hmm. Very cool. Well, I would say the tip that I had from that is be that don't be the person that has the biggest bag because that person ends up with all the stuff. were like yeah four people traveling and it was just the person who had the capacity to take the most stuff had to take the most stuff. Yeah. it also is a good way when like if i'm going with shiv a good way to kind of equal out our paces is i just carry more weight so it's less less impact on her and also She's...

Speaker: almost heart literally half the size of me. Makes sense. I take more. of it but yeah afterwards Ian and I were we're going back and forth and. designing different fast pack.

Speaker: right because yeah it's... right very fun Yeah. We've got a boy's trip planned. Yeah, I think we ended up with about four. I think Sim's about to embark on the the one I did around chemo because she's going to check it out and I gave her a few tips, but that's...

Speaker: That one's pretty intense. i think I feel like some of the Via Alpinas in the Dolomites that have like maybe 10 different routes, that one of them would be pretty cool. Yeah, it's...

Speaker: It's just... I don't know how how I feel about those. Like the the ones that Ian and I were talking about was combining like the TMB, the HALT route, and then there's the... um both 14 loop as well which ended up at like 450k And we're kind of thinking, yeah, you can sort of... push through that in eight to ten days and we're gonna go all in one Yeah.

Speaker: No, I might need a few years of trying to pull that one. Sorry, guys. Yeah. I was like, the felt like something that was doable. I'm not sure about 450. Give me a few years.

Speaker: I know it's it's super weird. Like I don't think you actually have to because like ah for the three weeks prior to this. I think the last time I was on, I mentioned that my adductors were feeling pretty cooked and I actually ended up giving myself tendinopathy plus.

Speaker: a back issue the surgery I had. Years ago, I've had had an annoying flare up giving me some nerve issues. So the last three weeks before going, I was not able to run. basically and a week before I could barely walk. So.

Speaker: Training was definitely not. Optimal. And yet you kind of just get out there and it's, I said, it could, because you're not actually asking for us, like for a general person, you're asking a lot for your body, but when you're used to training a decent amount. Um,

Speaker: kind of just get stronger doing it. But it's... You know, and you... not so fatigued. You're not trying to fit in like a hundred K a day. So you do, you still sleep properly. You still get to eat properly. um Yeah, I don't think you actually have to be as fit.

Speaker: As you might think. You were at all. resilient to do it you just like maybe not injured but Um. Yeah. All right. Well, if we're going to do 450K, we might as well just do the whole, what's the the whole route through the Alps called? The 2000K one. Might as well just do that.

Speaker: The yes, that one's yes. That one sounds pretty pretty gnarly. I was listening to... Sophie Woods was her name. yeah Yeah, Grant. grants so yeah one one One of her... So names.

Speaker: On single track. Finn put an episode out recently and it sounded technical like not easy going would be yeah Well, knowing like some of the countries it goes through, like the the trails in the Dolomites are fairly technical. Like in Slovenia, the trails are pretty technical.

Speaker: Um, Yeah, there's definitely lots of... technical trails through the Alps. Hmm. So... No, I would definitely, and anyone that's thinking about it, or doing a fast pack. If you're like me, find hiking you learn a little bit boring, where you want to spend more than your two hour long run in in the mountains. i would thoroughly recommend i'm kind of been trying to think of what's what we can do.

Speaker: over here which is it's a shame we don't have the same setup with the refugios but even kind of finishing. Sounds like you should start a refugio for us. I think I'm um um um' right there. The ski resorts are are good options. if you Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: connect up another finish or you've got your halfway stop we did try to use like sweets or lollies for the fuel for the first couple of days but we did find that you're still moving a bit too fast for that So we kind of ended up back on gels, which.

Speaker: We then had to buy gels from each town. that we stopped in and. and of it was was pretty good i don't I don't understand knack. And how that can be. a Product.

Speaker: that people want to buy. because we we bought it and i genuinely took one sip of the drink mix and tossed the whole thing and the same for the gels it's um and i tried it once i did not like it The innovates are good.

Speaker: It was pretty bad, yeah. And if it was good, the the lime. and of it tasted like a margarita. Sounds good. yeah keen on that one and then we had some like some random local ones which were fine they were sort of like cliff gels or or goo so they're a bit thick but they were fine um but yes so some some better better planning there would have been good but yeah we were still moving fast enough to need gels which i didn't expect which was kind of a nice thing as well Mm.

Speaker: Very cool. Sounds like ah ah a really fun experience. And now yeah you're back in ah cold, wet Victoria. Yes. just been staring at the rain the whole day so we've come from like a 35 degree UK which is ridiculous to this which Yeah.

Speaker: So. the joys but no it's it's good to be back it's nice to even like the zone the the first day back into sort of normal routine but I... I like. the normal routine of things. Definitely. Definitely. What is normal routine though? that's ah what yeah Yeah, I think for you, Brady, you don't really have one right now.

Speaker: and No, no, not really. not really um Yeah, so I guess I can i can give you a little quick update. So um it's been, I think I've been a few weeks since I've been on. I've been pretty busy, to say the least. um So my wife and Laura, we were very lucky to welcome our son Finley into the world a few weeks ago. And um yeah, it's been...

Speaker: pretty crazy experience. Um, I was saying to these guys beforehand. that. Before the birth, I was like thinking a lot about my running and...

Speaker: what I was able to do and that sort of stuff and like all those sorts of like gone out the window, which is actually quite nice. I'm not really thinking too much about how my body's going. I'm still trying to do little bits and pieces. but um Yeah, obviously got. some other more important things to deal with at the moment and to enjoy and be a part of. so Yeah, it's... ah It's been... Pretty cool. Pretty tiring.

Speaker: I must say, it's it isn't easy. But um yeah, we're getting by, which is good. And yeah, my... Rehab is coming along slower than I thought it would be. i sort of A few months ago I thought that...

Speaker: At this point I would be... potentially starting some sort of return to run. um And i'm I'm not starting it right now. I have physio tomorrow. um But it also doesn't feel... quite ready. um And I think... Part of the issue is...

Speaker: The fracture that I had seems to be. uh seems to be the main source of sort of any sort of pain that I get. and the swelling that I'm getting. um So I feel like that's really slowing me down.

Speaker: but Yeah, I'm sort of just in the mindset now that like I can't force it. I'm doing everything i can do i just got to be patient it'll happen when it happens um and moving through it um so Yeah. It's ah a bit of swimming, a bit of riding, although riding seems to be aggravating the fracture a little bit or at least making it swell up. Um,

Speaker: Good amount of gym stuff. So yeah, I feel like I'm... doing something now which is nice like sort of exercising Um... which is also nice to sort of clear the head and So try and have some normal normality to to life at the moment. um But, yeah, I'm a bit behind where I was hoping to be.

Speaker: So... yeah a few weeks ago that felt like a big deal doesn't feel like a big deal right now i say it out loud um but yeah i'm i'm still confident it's heading in the right direction i just think the fracture because i was immobilized because of the achilles usually you would you would mobilize a fracture a bit earlier.

Speaker: And I feel like it just got really stiff because... it was immobilized it had to be um That's... making the rehab a lot a little bit more tricky.

Speaker: Um... but i'm doing what i can do and like Actually doing the stepper. uh in the gym has been okay like it doesn't doesn't mind like the stepping the walking's okay i haven't tried running i don't quite have the range in my ankle or the strength probably but stepping is sort of just like walking so a harder version of walking so I can do the stepper, which is good.

Speaker: um And that feels like. close -ish to sport So it's nice to be doing that. Yeah. Has there been anything in the first few weeks that's surprised you?

Speaker: about having Finlay or... and anything that you had an expectation that's completely different. I think the main thing is like... I don't know, you you you talk to a lot of people that like, oh, kids are like, it's the most it's the most amazing thing you'll do. and

Speaker: it's like so good and all that sort of thing. And yeah I've always had the opinion that they're like, oh yeah, okay. Like you can't really conceptualize that or like say that. And I'm like, well, it's hard to like fully believe it because you have never experienced it. And like, I've always wanted to have kids, but I can't say I was like.

Speaker: super interested. in the first stage. I know that sounds bad saying it out loud, but like the first few years I knew would be hard. I'm obviously serious about my running. I wanted to not have my sleep affected and my routine mucked up and all that sort of stuff. I really wanted to have kids at some point. And I'm i'm sort of envisaging when they're like five to 10. because i like I like hanging out with my my cousins and that sort of, and and sorry, my nieces and nephews. um But...

Speaker: The one thing, and and Mikey, I remember, said to me earlier this year, he's like, it'll be the best thing you ever do. Like, you'll love it. And I was like, ah, he's exaggerating. but it actually is it's so crazy i'm like a full convert it's actually been like I think my partner Laura is like, what the hell, Brody? like it so I don't think she was expecting this from me. like I'll just sit there and like... Watch Finlay for like an hour. And I'm just like.

Speaker: completely smitten, which is... Not what I expected. It's amazing. I love it. um It's very cool. Um, this just will sound the same to anyone who doesn't have kids. This will sound the same as what I used to listen to, but.

Speaker: I'll add it to the the raised voices. It is. sort of the most amazing thing I've ever done. um So yeah. At this stage, ah umm um I'm loving it. It's very good. um It's hard. It's not easy.

Speaker: But I also like a challenge. So... um sort of getting stuck in doing what I can. um And yeah. I feel like it's going to be. i don't know i just feel like it changes every day he hasn't changed that much just two weeks but like it just there's always something new and i know that that's going to continue so i sort of love Love that aspect. I'm someone who in my life has really enjoyed keeping things ah exciting and different. and I ah don't mind dealing with change. so

Speaker: From that aspect, I think I'll be all right. I'm also a bit of a wimp when it comes to sleep. So I feel like that's going to be the main challenge for me. um But... talking to Ian, it sounds like something you might just get used to.

Speaker: Yeah, it is. Tired for the rest of your life. I don't know if that's what I wanted to hear two weeks in. I'll give you a good one. I reckon the best moment.

Speaker: is when they become interactive ah You wait for the first day that you walk into a room and your baby smiles because you walked into that room. They might do it for everyone in the world. Like my youngest will ride on the Swiss train or the bus and just smile at everyone and make everyone's day good. So like, I don't think it's necessarily that I'm super special, but like the first time you walk into the room and they give you a smile, like.

Speaker: and they're properly interactive and recognize you, that's... You remember that one. Yeah cool. Well, i feel I feel like I already like... pretending that i'm getting smiles at the moment just like a random face movement i'm like oh my god he smiled at me but i don't think i've actually got that moment yet so i'll look forward to it we're We're in a battle at the moment and because our ours babbles.

Speaker: And so there's like a bubbly da -da -da -da -da, and there's a bubbly like ma -ma -ma -ma -ma. um And I'm trying very hard to claim the babble is actually a word. It's definitely not, but I'm working on it.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, very nice. Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's ah it's been definitely been. not exactly what I expected but I also it's so hard to know what to expect so Yeah.

Speaker: loving it so far. um Sleep is... as ah sort of I'm getting some sleep in, so that's good. And like I was saying to Ian, I don't know how people train through this phase.

Speaker: um I think I would find it really difficult if I was trying to... properly trained but I think you just change your expectations because theoretically I've still been able to sort of sneak out every now and then and I've still done a decent amount of training because I've been to the gym and I've done a a ride and i've done the stepper and i've sort of still exercised maybe not Full training load. and i was able to do it um but like ah thinking about it i was like oh how would you even How would you run? How would you do a session? like That sounds like... crazy I can't even imagine doing that.

Speaker: um So it's definitely opened my eyes to to that side of things. um And that's not even, I'm the i'm the dad. Like yeah women coming back from this is just. crazy like just a whole new level of appreciation.

Speaker: of of that process and and what happens uh which um Not that any of my athletes are having babies right now, but I think as a coach. in the future.

Speaker: I'm sure that I'll come across this and I think. Yeah, I feel like that. And of my friends and and and the athletes that I train with, like having a better appreciation for. for what they've been through i think is is very helpful as well um because Yeah, I'm knackered and... Nothing really happened to me.

Speaker: I just stopped not sleeping as much. So yeah. Yeah, it's... like It is obviously a a huge thing to come back from. And I was i was on a... um uh, like strength and conditioning.

Speaker: a couple of months ago. I would. Jen Gregson and she was talking about the process of going like pre -birth, post -birth to then trying to get back for, I think it was Valencia last year or? I can't remember exactly the race.

Speaker: But just... Like. So, so much has to go into it and then you still just have no clue. what cards you're going to get dealt as you go through that process. and And some people can run so late in the pregnancy, some starts so need to stop so early. I think it's the dad.

Speaker: In your scenario, Brodie, is that... You have to be so flexible to it I think that you see... It'd be so easy. And to be honest, On a smaller scale, you see this with people just going on holiday.

Speaker: like you expect to be able to do this thing or you're got competing variables and people are sort of inflexible with the program and then you just end up burning themselves out or getting injured. and

Speaker: you can still do like you can still do a session if you're ah a new new dad but you do it on the day that you just suddenly get a good sleep and you feel good and you start you warm up and you're like oh this is actually a good morning and then The the next day where you slept for... one hour in 10 different stints, you maybe don't try and do a run or don't try and do anything hard. um Also consider, should you really be going out the door right now or does your partner need you? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, definitely that. component So, yeah. It's a...

Speaker: it's a it's a journey but um yeah Loving it so far. so um Yeah it's been good. Oh, congratulations. i i' Glad to hear both mum and bubba. all healthy and you actually look quite alive. That's good. Yeah. Yeah, I had a coffee just before the podcast. I think it's more the evenings I seem to stay awake and then the mornings I'm very sluggish. I wouldn't struggle this morning. I think so. Cool.

Speaker: Nice one. Well, James, I might also have to hand over to you. Sorry, because I, on that note, have to knock go run and help out. um So I will hand the reins over to you. And Ian, you've been upgraded to regular host. So thank you.

Speaker: It's like an audition. I hope I get this right. yeah yeah yeah thanks guys and it was good to chat Ian and good to catch up again James Alrighty, so...

Speaker: Ian, since we've we've already sort of... touched on this She has now, you mentioned Ninkay. I want to start with... um uh like with with that as a bit of and a news topic so for anyone that hasn't seen this. uh, On the weekend, one of the women, Ninka Brinkman, who has...

Speaker: I think she's won two years now before. but was running in second place at the time. gets to a table ah The lady in front of her had... had aid so she got past the fresh bottle. Ninka had her bottle on the table, a bit like you see in a marathon style thing.

Speaker: And she gets up to it. There's no bottle there. she's goes around it looks like 20 30 seconds at least we're trying to find this bottle nobody goes up to her and and asks for for a new ah so to to fill it up and it's it was just just sort of sparked a lot of debate about.

Speaker: like whether there should be. crew help whether we should be changing how this works because when you are like you're talking about 15, 20 seconds. completely changing whether you come first or fifth potentially or in your case Ian like that could have been

Speaker: Yeah. 10 places difference is is a small thing like that. um in the conversation just being like yeah doing do we need to be moving away from it is it on the is it on the brand so her sponsor was ACG so that for them to have a a presence or is it just a case of we need to neutralize that component which has been a conversation across the sport in different different areas but i'm curious on your your perspective having having been there being at this level at the field.

Speaker: What do you think is the right or potentially the right the right thing to do here? I mean, firstly, that video is excruciating to watch. oh it's so painful this is what she's looking for a bottle for so long um Yeah, it's painful. There it goes. I was almost yelling at my screen. And there was like a guy trying to help her find it, the poor poor dude, and she's...

Speaker: obviously unhappy but Yeah, I mean... It was a weird setup because, like, I remember going through the aid stations. There'd be signs to, like, the elite. Support.

Speaker: Um, not Not trying to brag, I was part of like the elite wave. I never got effort offered. to put bottles around the course or anything like that um so it was really a select few i think of those people that even got the privilege of putting a bottle up there or maybe maybe i just missed the memo I also saw people getting...

Speaker: i eat outside of... their registration. um who i just wanted to scream cheetah because you know you're going up a big climb and suffering and someone's getting something that uh They're definitely not within the um rules, but...

Speaker: Yeah, I fall on the side of it needs to be standardized for that level of competition. Yeah. like world mountain our mountain running world carpool golden trail Uh... It needs to be standardized. But to my original point about how I didn't see your, like I maybe missed the memo about whether I could have leveraged that.

Speaker: Where do you draw the line? Because in a race like CSNL where... there's probably at least a hundred people that given the right day could challenge for top 30 on that course i reckon um Yeah. Maybe that's an exaggeration. like Where do you draw the line of who gets that support and who doesn't?

Speaker: Ah. That's it's a tough one in a race like that. and yeah if you want to be fair then the line is drawn that no one gets anything exceptional and we all get the same yeah it is it's tricky i think that At this.

Speaker: this level at that level of depth and also for this distance of race. I think this is where you need to look at like the marathon. mages or just just the the key marathon races and going okay well if you're If you're an... an Elite.

Speaker: And I guess they do it by time. So maybe maybe we have to use ITRA indexes or something. But if you're at a certain... Certain level you get. you're a bottle on a table and if you don't then you have to just fill up using the course requirement. um which is tricky because you're always going to get people that are going to get outside aid. But if you're getting outside aid for...

Speaker: 500th, it doesn't really matter. But then the... person behind you that's trying to just get as high as they can up in the field but doing it by the book then could get frustrated with it all and it's I think Yeah, it's it is it's it's... It's a very tricky one to... to work out but i do agree i think when you Talking about.

Speaker: this level of performance. There's prize money, there's sponsor bonuses. Um, like it needs to be better than done that and it it very well like it's also really tricky when that happens to you then what's your mindset afterwards like yes would you say that they're

Speaker: you're a professional you're a competitor you should be able to get yourself back into the right mindset but it's very hard when you know that you've just wasted 20 -30 seconds maybe you in this case you're you're running away without your bottle that might have been nutrition so then you're worried about the impacts of that. It's...

Speaker: It's quite complex. an issue to go through. Yeah. Yeah, I think even and that's why, i even though this has been a topic for so long. they still haven't got an answer for it.

Speaker: Ah. you see as a no interestingly like how they so you apply to be part of the elite entries um and even doing that like it's not actually itra index you have to submit race results and they kind of like eyeball it and make a decision of whether you can run for the men under 250 like that's there anecdotal standard for what they would consider someone that deserves to be in the elite field.

Speaker: um So... Yeah, it's not even intra -index for them. Ah. which I found kind of interesting. and yeah Yeah, it's that's a very labor -intensive way of doing it. Um...

Speaker: and tricky but then it also like We know there are so many roadrunners that go and do. si is an nowl or someone that hasn't got an ITRA index or their ITRA index is not. indicative of their potential performance so it

Speaker: it makes sense to not rely on that and it's it's definitely not a perfect system but it's also... i guess yeah It just just opens up. another level of subjectivity to this whole. process yeah i think ah I haven't seen the backstory to it, but... The fundamental issue maybe in this situation wasn't necessarily that one person got outside support.

Speaker: port And the other didn't. They both had an expectation of what was going to happen when they got to that aid station. And Ninka was expecting a bottle to be there on the table and given to her because she'd labelled it with a number.

Speaker: And that didn't happen. um So I think in the sense of like, if it's a bottle on a table. that's absolutely fine. like Bye. there's a stuff up if she was expecting something to occur at that age station and it didn't that's where the breakdown is and i don't know i didn't see afterwards whether they'd lost the bottle or or there was a miscommunication or something.

Speaker: Yeah, I'm not sure. it looked like But you could clearly see the bottles with the numbers and the number wasn't on any of those bottles. So my guess is is yeah that the bottle got misplaced somewhere. and I think that... To me, part of it was like, well, should should this be...

Speaker: on ACG to just take away this whole issue and and if you're allowed to have brand support and you can have people on course then Should you be supporting one of your marquee athletes and have a brand? there but then they can't do that for every race or so is it on the athlete to organize somebody to go and help them um because yeah we've scene when ah was it UTA last year when buses didn't arrive in time for the 22k start and so people were literally jumping off the bus running starting late and so when we outsource or

Speaker: put trust in other systems they can break yeah they can break but then It's there. can get buses that work really well you can get bottle systems that work really well like it's it's a tricky one i think it's always going to be pushed back from from the athletes until it's proven that it can be done Right. Whatever that right.

Speaker: is or whatever that action is. Yeah, I think at the front end of the field. People just don't want to trust. something outside of their control. so no matter like if all the support was to be provided by you give over drop bags and there was a drop bag system There's so many athletes that just wouldn't trust it because there's so many examples of drop bags being lost or bottles not being on tables.

Speaker: Like I remember doing that, I was part of that UTA 22 where... My bus got there like eight minutes before the start and I had to run to the start line. And that was my warmup. And I hit the start line.

Speaker: Waited a minute and then the race started. And I was talking to... um Ben Benduff was my coach. And he was like, yeah, that's why I got. dropped off because I... I kept everything within my control and I kind of yeah whacked myself on the head going, yeah, I should have. kept it within my control, but yeah. So. I think people want to retain control, but then in the spirit of fairness, not everyone. can have complete control. so This is why this debate is still raging. We haven't solved it.

Speaker: So far in this conversation. No. and It's also on the other other side of that, is whether you're looking at the the bus example or the bottle example, we are also trying to minimize traffic and disruption to the local areas. And so we kind of want to be able to.

Speaker: to trust that. where we can outsource that control to to somebody else and that's just going to be the standard for everyone to... to be on and that kind of. ties us into a topic that um The guys couldn't get to a few weeks ago, which Ian was actually the first person to send this across to me. And this was the Chamonix mayor's statement on an article in a French publication called Le Quip. about UTMB and how he came into ah

Speaker: Power. position in March and has a different. a future view, shall we say, on how he thinks. UTMB should interact with Chamonix and the area at large.

Speaker: And essentially saying that. it's too big, it's growing too fast, it doesn't take enough account for both the residents and for the environment and that there need to be changes. um Some pretty, pretty drastic. He sort of in that article is talking about.

Speaker: Removing. completely the uh night impact to some of the races and then goes on to say or at least just reduce the impact of the runners through the night saying that residents or unable to get around town, or being told not to. to leave the house, they can't get to work. and how they're essentially feeling forced out.

Speaker: It's an interesting one because then you kind of go through the comments and you read more about it. and Pre -UTMB, it sounds like Chamonix was... pretty quiet from the 15th of August onwards. A lot of the businesses rely on tourism and then also This is a one -week period.

Speaker: of impact and kind of Tourism. When you compare that to the impact of the hikers, as I said, doing a TMB, it was crazy how busy it was. And then the whole ski season.

Speaker: Is this really where the yeah the mayor should be focusing their attention if they want to minimize and the whole point is to reduce the impact on the glaciers and the environmental contribution so Yeah, like I said, yeah you were the first one to send it to me. what what were your thoughts reading the articles. seeing what was coming out of it.

Speaker: Yeah, I saw that article coming off the back of doing Marathon de Mont Blanc, like the event. And it barely handled that in my humble opinion. Like my my wife and daughters caught the bus are just up the valley, like the main bus on one of the days. And she was saying it was packed, it was jam -packed.

Speaker: um And that's Much smaller than what UTMB week is not that I've been there for that so I can get the congestion argument um It kind of like...

Speaker: There's been a number of things happening in the UTMB world where it's all just saying like it is. Kind of grown. out of control and they're trying to rein it in. uh and i this is world according to me but i think you're looking at big running like one of one of the few events that really has kicked off. big running in the sense of it being a corporation as opposed to you know what maybe trail running started as locals experiencing hills. ah

Speaker: Yeah. Big running coming coming so big that it's losing control and drifting from its values. And you've got money competing with values now. And yeah, you've you've just seen that.

Speaker: I think there's been a few examples where they're struggling to reconcile the two sides. And world according to me is UTMB's biggest failing.

Speaker: throughout. throughout every little uh because it seems like every year there's another controversy with UTMB. is Their communication is... wanting. They yeah they' more often than not try to do the right thing but poorly communicate it and it kicks off a storm and then it kind of all calms down because over time we realize it's not as bad as the way it was communicated or not communicated.

Speaker: Um, Like anecdotally, I've actually heard from someone that... maybe this one's being blown out of proportion uh and UTMB and the mayor are actually on better terms than maybe his language suggested and it's not going in yeah anywhere.

Speaker: Bye. It's still... Right. It's kind of a... as i i think i showed you like The controversy was over the language he used and how extreme it was and the words he chose. He he chose a word that basically said the locals hate.

Speaker: utm but not that they're frustrated by it that they hate it um And that kind of really. kicked up a stink. but Yeah. but I think behind the scenes it's probably maybe a touch more amicable.

Speaker: but YouTube may have really created. They keep creating their own problem. like They've created a global network that funnels the entire trail running population to Chamonix Valley. at the end of August.

Speaker: Aha. End. how they wind that back and make it more controllable. it's difficult I think for them. then they've made their bed and they've really got to find a way to lie in it because this system is built around.

Speaker: getting this many people to Chamonix at the moment. All right. It's tough. is is going to be a tough hole to dig themselves out of. Yeah, I'm curious to see what this is going to end up looking like and say. 2030 with a ah few years of development is it going to end up being like the Ironman World Championships, you get into Kona where they're still...

Speaker: a few thousand people but they're all age group. Top. 10s or top fives or however however it they make it work so that it can control and then they probably have a side for they they've got quite big ah adaptive athlete policy at the moment so they probably have like another side for that but There's...

Speaker: another article that just came out on trial runner written by Doug Meyer who wrote literally the book on UTMB and i found that one really interesting in the sense that it sounds like utmb's had quite a big kind of values restructure and realizing that they have missed the mark multiple times in the last three years, four years when the World Series has sort of outgrown. the UTMB event itself. and how they're trying to get it back on on track. I think one of the things that stood out was they...

Speaker: They reached out to protect our winters. And basically ask them to. to deep dive into what they're doing. wrong and how they can improve it and really opening the door up to them so like It sounds like UTMB is a... organization and as an individual event is trying to right its wrongs but like you say i i don't really see how they can pull back from where they are. knowing that they also have stated that they want to hit 100. events.

Speaker: when they're at 67 right now, I think by 2030 was what they said they would. were aiming to do that on, maybe they've changed that. that goal but it is going to be fascinating to see what this looks like it might make getting into one of the UTMB finals for final events like ICC CCC a lot harder. Um,

Speaker: They're also making it more and more expensive to fly to do it, which as we spoke about in the past, as you said, Ian is ironic because their entire structure is set up to send people to this event. but it's definitely gonna i get the impression that it is definitely gonna look different next year.

Speaker: and then it will look probably very different. in three to five years. Yeah. all right I think... and they might be doing this again like i might just not be looking in the right places but one of the things they could maybe do uh make it a touch better uh is I think people want to see more tangible things like showing how they are contributing to the health of the trails within the Chamonix Valley. ah creating like

Speaker: I don't know, transport structures or different things and improving the actual area and people can see like the tangible results. or know of the tangible results. And maybe this is better explained in a place like UTA because I don't know whether they do this or not. but For example, they're putting 7 ,000 people over. the same trails on that weekend.

Speaker: in Katoomba. Hmm. the like I think people would value seeing what the contribution. back to those trails is like okay UTA is coming and dropping a huge footprint on these trails but here is what we're doing outside of UTA weekend to improve the health of all the Blue Mountains trails and make it a far more sustainable event.

Speaker: Um, i'm not saying like ah the carbon offset is a bad idea. I think people just want to... big boom in the trail running community especially want to contribute to the environment as one of the benefits of our our community.

Speaker: but really make it obvious what your money is going towards. says as opposed to like the the wider language that i've seen a couple of times now of like all the glaciers are melting. um And so we need to do something. As cynical as this sounds, I don't see my extra... 50 bucks.

Speaker: fixing that problem. That is a far wider problem. um Yeah, try and... I hope that makes sense. um Definitely not suggesting. making a climate contribution through these events is a bad thing but making it more obvious exactly what people's money is going towards and how that community now that advantage benefiting the community.

Speaker: Ah. is a really... strong approach to take at the forefront. sorry i'm rambling but like one other really obvious Take Conquestathon. like your money some of the money to congress -a -thon goes towards the local rescue ah yeah the rescue service and you can donate more to that.

Speaker: um There was a really good stair running event in Melbourne that I did as part of the Giant Steps Foundation. and they raised like over a hundred grand from five five hundred people running because people really love to give back and they got to see where their money's going um So I think people want this. They want to contribute and they want to make. they want to go somewhere and make a positive contribution. So make it really obvious how they're doing that. No, I like it. I think, I think.

Speaker: yeah we we need something tangible and it and it does it does like Saving Glaciers is it seems too big for one person to really make much of an impact. And it and it's also, yeah, it's hard to put that. feeling or that touch on onto it whereas yeah UTA I feel conflicted by because it feels like we're doing too much damage to those trails with 8 ,500 people running on them. but I don't know what

Speaker: they're doing from a trail stewardship perspective to improve and to look after and to help contribute. towards maintaining those trails for the rest of the year. so It would be. great to have those examples thrust into your face, not.

Speaker: Here, let's save XYZ, which is... ah obviously what we need to be doing because that's the the end point of improving on climate change but it's a bit hard to really wrap your head around how week.

Speaker: individually can impact that. and it's just just finishing off uh talking about marathon de mont blanc something that surprised me this year i didn't actually realize they have 10 000 participants so the same number as utmb the difference being that utmb brings about 40 000 people to the area for that week and i Ciao.

Speaker: marathon de montblanc brings anything like that so it is a question of, okay, well, do we need to be somehow controlling or reducing the the spectator element of it, which is a shame because our sport needs the spectator side to to increase. I think that's part of the... the magic of the event. but

Speaker: it's not just the individual it's not not not on the runners solely it's it's okay if a runner is bringing their whole family across which is a awesome trip to do. But if they're coming because of that event and they wouldn't go otherwise, then it's a much larger impact than just just that one person. Um, Butts. Yeah. it's ah a very complex topic i think it's something that we're going to see more and more on the forefront of of conversations across any event really because Climate change, global warming is becoming incredibly...

Speaker: Obvious. as someone that's gone to the Pyramid Valley for the last three or four years, um it's... Yeah. very much in your face how much it is changing and very rapidly. Cool. All right, last quick bit of news and something that is part of one one of our our questions. or our mentions i say so this is from jeff jeff russell up in Queensland.

Speaker: This is his his note to us. was I've spoken to Ian a couple of times about mountain running and increasing its exposure. Hopefully he likes the announcement we have just made with Track Trails Running Association of Queensland about the Queensland Mountain Running Champs and how they'll be sending the winners to the Australian Mountain and Trail Running Championship next year. So for a bit of context into that, before I go into his his question, it was that they just announced the Queensland Mountain Running Championships, um which is going to have an open and under -20 category.

Speaker: degrees in the male and female uh 22k race For the open, under 20s would be a little bit shorter.

Speaker: 1200 meters of climbing, 650 meters of descent. I'm not sure if that's... different races but must be the same one um so yeah it's a net positive of course Yeah, so sounds right up your ah your alley, Ian. He goes on to the question of, ah my vision is to have this across all events in years to come, long course and short course, and possibly also the VK or a vertical race, and send our winners to the national champs to represent trail running, especially for Queensland track and Queensland. And I'd love to see this across all other states, as well as have state team champs run as part of the nationals. uh in cross -country

Speaker: What are your thoughts? Yeah, i think I love the work that Jeff does um and I think it's great. And I talked to Billy about this race because it sounds really cool and he loves it as well.

Speaker: um Cool idea. Definitely cool idea. but we're We're going along anyway, so I don't really want to go down the rabbit hole of my fundamental problem. Not my my problem, the problem that I see with Australian trail running and why that would come up against obstacles, but just... yeah the overarching governance that exists behind Australian trail running is.

Speaker: It's... It's just not. Gosh. Drakshin. to then neatly become a state international championships model. Yeah. and how how we get there i don't know that's i'm like alluding to kind of a a perspective um that would take us down a rabbit worm but i just I love the idea and I think it's actually a great idea and I think... being If you a I was in Queensland, I'd be thrilled. Yeah.

Speaker: Ends i think yeah i think that's really cool i don't know who's going to step up in the other states uh i'd be actually to return to interested. to understand what jeff's idea to stand this up in other states would be like i know that ultra kind of has bodies in like i've seen the ac10 victoria one i don't know whether their official or just kind of social media managers. um

Speaker: making them more official and having state champs would be cool. whether it needs... someone like me in the ACT just to step up and... do an event and because that's clearly what jumps. doing up there. I don't know.

Speaker: But yeah, really cool. to like formalize it and have the national structure. It's a long... That's obviously a slow burn. But if we got there, how cool, because...

Speaker: So France just had... their vk championships it was on the same weekend to see as an aisle it got heaps of people. They got a really good field of people, despite being on the same weekend as the most competitive trail race in the world, which was like just next door in Switzerland. Italy had their, I think it was Italy had theirs recently, or maybe Switzerland had one as well.

Speaker: they attract us like the names that they attract are unbelievable and the depth of those races is so cool so if we were able to generate that in australia Ah. It's just more hubs where...

Speaker: all the big names combine and and go after it. There's not too many races on our calendar where that occurs. Ah. So yeah, i'm I'm definitely invested in the idea. going forward and maybe we'll reach out to Jeff to see if I can help in any way. Yeah, I think... We can save the the bigger picture conversation for for another time, but I think...

Speaker: yeah ah Just looking at this, ah it is awesome what Jeff is doing and what Track is doing up there. I think they are really... setting a great example, paving the way that... And i but I believe we do have, because essential they're they're just... They're volunteers and and race organizers. I believe that we have that person in each state. We just have to... Like in.

Speaker: empower them, enable them. someone to really have a passion project of wanting the sport to to grow from all aspects but yeah What Jeff's doing is... is is great And seeing that extra focus being now put on the the national champs for it to really mean something, which I feel like from next year it...

Speaker: It is like we sort of take a little bit more meaning this year, but I think next year is is going to have that. that extra field all being ah in one place at the same time and hopefully with qualification for Worlds. it's it's yeah just it's It's going to be really good for the sport, even if it... stays isolated in Queensland. um Yeah. and how How logical, like people will run in November and I don't know what his model will be, but yeah.

Speaker: if the top three then get supported by track to go down to Victoria to compete, ah sorry, down to Tassie to compete in the national champs. ah November and then March, like the timing's really good. Yeah.

Speaker: like people get supported if you don't happen to go to mount glorious you can still go and compete um It's just a pathway to get support, I imagine. I don't think it's a gateway. Like. it's it's I think he's done a really good job. The timing of it's really good. And...

Speaker: I wonder if We'll see. Like you don't need the state bodies to do this, but if. KMR can just have a state competition of just... And there could be no prizes. It's just literally a bit of... bragging rights, but which state you represent. and accumulating points or times or whatever it is it would be cool to see something like that because that might then instigate something to to develop for future years. So um yeah. or Love your work, Jeff, and and all the team up at...

Speaker: track. it's ah it's great It's great to see. We definitely appreciate it. and Yeah, for everyone that lives lives in in Queensland, feel feel very fortunate that you've got people like this pioneering trail running up there.

Speaker: For you. Alright. Moving on to results. Ian, do you have the spread the document in front of you? By any chance? Uh... Sorry. No, don't worry. i was I was just going to, I was going to pass them across to you, but I will just rattle through them. I didn't want to.

Speaker: Just literally talk. But I will start off with a few few races. ah First one in Victoria. uh quad quad trial run this is uh only about an hour south of from where I am starts and finishes in ah in a brewery, which Joe Dorff, who was one of the the winners, was saying how this is.

Speaker: This should always happen, um I think. i really wanted to make a joke about bright but i don't think i should um so in the 50k Dom Cooper took took the win out there for the men in 4, 42, 49. The second was Jed Sirianni in 4, 56. In the women's China Marsh.

Speaker: I'm pretty sure it's up in... qui and from queensland uh was down this is a bit of a random one cc that this name at but took out the win and i'm pretty sure a new course record in 504 44 followed by kim flack in 524 20. In the 25K, I said Joe Dorff took the win there in 1 hour 50 .07 with Sebastian.

Speaker: The. Petter in second, 202 .22 in the women's race. Mitch Martinez took. the win there um in 2 .32. with Rachel Powell at 250 .42. And then lastly, in the 12K.

Speaker: Geordie Probert. took the win for the men in 49 -52 followed closely by Joel Docker in 50 -44 and in the women's Jade Hazeldine ah She took the win in 53 -19, followed by Catherine Williams in 102.

Speaker: 24. which is good to see Jade's. And Kim, people I coach, it's always good to see people have have their great days. um Then we also had the peaks and trails. race we had the 50k was taken out by logan welsh in 451 07 and then rachel ayers took out the women's in 559 17

Speaker: Ben Burgess, it's good to see. Ben's name on the results again. It's been been a little bit of time. He took the win there for 33k in 249 .28 and Nicole Patton. took third overall and first female in 329 39 as she gives up to ccc in a few weeks

Speaker: 20K had... Taylor Kearney in 133 .43, take out the win for the men and then Nicole Viren in 156 .03 for the women. And in the 13K, Brenton Rowe took a win out for the men in 1 .07 .17 and Amber Lowe came second overall and first female in 1 .19.

Speaker: 13. Another one in has Scenic Rim. crossed your radar at all? Up in Queensland. uh i've known of it uh i don't know heaps about it other than like where it is and i've heard some people do it it's not been one on my bucket list though just not Not for any reason other than it just hasn't raised above like the threshold for it to be there.

Speaker: Yeah. i Billy's mentioned it a few times to me and Jeff was... uh, He sent me a message. just before this. Give me a bit of background. So the first year they've done a miler,

Speaker: ah Jeff reckons it could be or maybe like the or one of the toughest milers in the country. It had a pretty high. think 16 out of the 45 people that entered.

Speaker: DNF'd? Which is, yeah. Sorry, sorry. finished so the majority dnf so pretty pretty high attrition right there uh tim woods took the win In...

Speaker: Uh, 22 hours and six minutes for the men with Benjamin Millen about an hour hour back, 23 .08. And in the women's, Tegan Porter took the win there in 29 .26. She was the only female finisher, which...

Speaker: I thought was just low entry numbers, but it's just genuinely really, really hard race for the 100K. Tom Munro had a...

Speaker: Very commanding lead. He took out first in 12 .59 .35. His second place was first female Denise Davies in 15 .35. So pretty lonely day out there for Tom, but obviously a very impressive run. um And third overall and second female was Caroline Smith in 16 .37. So two females on the podium, which is always really cool to see. 65K. Oliver Gallagher took the win there in 750 -45, followed pretty closely by... Niles Realt in 756 and for the women

Speaker: ah Megan Surinbrock took the win there in 9 .38. I w - Followed very closely again by Kenza Menzner in 9 .41 .11. So three minutes separating over nearly 10 hours. It's pretty cool to see. Marathon.

Speaker: Fred Bowen to the win, 443 -47. And in second place, which was also first female, Amber Rollinson, 450 -46. some very impressive female times coming up here and then in 25k Lachlan Cameron took the win there in 2 .13 .25 and again ah Second overall first female, Joanne Hogan, 236 .45.

Speaker: So... From what? Billy and Geoffrey saying. ah a race that we might see grow in size and popularity uh over the the coming years something quite technical and in a good time of year when there's not there's not too much for the bigger races going on.

Speaker: Um, Heading across to the Federation Ultra Trail, which was in South Australia. Oh. I've gone for results. For this one, we had ah an ultra and a 10K. The ultra was taken out by Sonia Janssen in 5 .23 .33 for the women and men's Andrew Heitman 4 .32 .24.

Speaker: in the 10K. Jackie. Naspinski took the win for the women's in 56 -19 and Steve Burdett took the win for the men in 43 -05. then...

Speaker: I think that is... everything. there was also the rainbow beach running festival but i can't find the results for that one so we might that we can't one coming up. uh soon as well but yeah great great to see some good racing through this time of the year it's starting starting to pick up the next big one on the calendar is transcend in two weeks time which we've got some

Speaker: pretty impressive names for brody and i will be doing a preview for that this week um but we've got yeah some names on the women's field like holly ransom and anna mckenna lining up and in the men's we've got billy curtis charlie hamilton ben burgess ben leeson it's uh nice to see the wa scene getting some ah really really good fields coming up I think it might be all the gold attracting people.

Speaker: Yeah. that's um Roger that. Yeah. Let's throw gold at more races. I think this is what's going to happen. like It's great. see it's not the same like they just throw money at elites and what happens they all rock up Yeah, and it's it is ah it's a very quiet time of the year for...

Speaker: what I'd say the competitive scene. um Over here, like the next... kind of marquee races i would say a hounds low and and surf coast but they're not till mid -september And then it builds up through... August, even July There's nothing that really stands out as being a guzzler, I guess, in July. but

Speaker: there's nothing really in August that goes on where it's like, if you want a competitive race at the front of the field, this is where you go. There's loads of races on, but. It's nice that there's something to fill the gap if somebody is is not taking a downtime or has not gone across to Europe and they want... a competitive race and if you can come away with i think five grand basically for for the win is Pretty enticing.

Speaker: Yeah. And when you're like, you look at March next year and having an Easter weekend, which basically takes it away one ah event weekend, is a train smash of events and that month.

Speaker: So it's nice idea that things are spreading out a tiny bit. Yeah. Definitely. All right, coming up, we have a few races run la up into stage race in Northern Territory, the Borodorf in South Australia, Surf Coast, Wonderful Trail Run in Victoria, also Devil Bend Trail Run in Vic, Glenbrook Trail Marathon in New South Wales and then the Lake Manchester Trails and Yarra.

Speaker: Yara Bilber, Trailfest, both in. Queensland in. Thanks for for coming on. I had a feeling this one with with you it could be, a So some good conversations. Hopefully everyone's enjoyed listening to it if they're still with us. We went long again. It seems to be my fault.

Speaker: No, no, it's good. we Yeah, I think that there's... there's definitely a space for um a conversation that's not on the main show that's allows us a bit more time to go into some of these topics because you do have great insights and perspectives on this. It's always fun to talk. talk through so definitely don't don't don't worry about going long people can stop listening if they're If they're not... found it but i I enjoyed it a lot so appreciate it Good luck for the rest of the...

Speaker: summer season for you um and we We're excited to keep. Following along, I've actually had to on on the the run sheet. I've separated out the the results into international and domestic, literally because you are racing so frequently that I... needed to keep putting it in so you've you've You've created you created a whole new section of our results table.

Speaker: Yeah, okay. I can send you my calendar and you can just create like a little segment in the podcast of what did Ian do this weekend. Yeah I like it. Sounds good. Cool. Thank you, mate. I really appreciate it. Everyone everyone listening, thank you for for... being with us for this episode.

Speaker: um we'll uh yeah Chat to you all next week. Thanks, Chad.