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The Alternatives Mason: Building Alts Knowledge Brick by Brick | Episode 14 | Financial Education for the TikTok Generation featuring The Wall Street Skinny
8 Plays6 months ago
Welcome to The Alternatives Mason: Building Alts Knowledge Brick by Brick. Banrion Capital Management uses technology to help independent advisors scale and educate themselves on alternative investments. Since education is such a big piece of the Banrion mission and business, we are excited to kick off this series to dive into the nits and grits of the alternatives space. Episode 14 "Financial Education for the Tik Tok Generation" features Kristen Kelly & Jen Saarbach, founders of The Wall Street Skinny.
Kristen and Jen are two lifelong friends and proud nerds. They grew up pursuing other academic interests, but found their way into the financial services industry. They are podcasters, teachers, mentors, and community builders looking to inspire, educate, and entertain the next generation.
Kristen Kelly has spent over 15 years working and teaching in the financial services industry. After graduating from Brown University with a Bachelor’s Degree in Biomedical and Mechanical Engineering, and a Master’s Degree in Innovation, Management and Entrepreneurship (PRIME), she started her career at Morgan Stanley in New York City where she worked in the Fixed Income Sales and Trading Division on the CDO Structuring desk, on the Equity Linked Products and Project Finance desks in Global Capital Markets, and in the Financial Sponsors Group within the Investment Banking Division.
Because her passion has always been teaching, she decided to make the jump to a role in training and education and then spent over a decade at Training The Street (TTS), a leading global financial training firm before leaving to start The Wall Street Skinny with her best friend Jen. She has trained incoming analysts and associates at top tier investment banks, private equity mega funds, Fortune 500 companies, universities, and business schools all over the world.
Kristen is a mom to three girls (5 and under) and after spending 17 years in NYC, including five of those with kids, is making the move to a house with more space Boston, Massachusetts.
Jen Saarbach has spent nearly a decade working and teaching on Wall Street. After graduating from Princeton University with a degree in English, Jen leveraged her summer internship in Fixed Income Sales & Trading to land a full time job as an Interest Rates Derivatives specialist at Lehman Brothers. Jen spent the remainder of her career at Barclays Capital and Morgan Stanley, where she covered some of the world's largest hedge funds, asset managers, bank portfolios, mortgage servicers, pension funds, and insurance companies.
As someone who entered the financial services industry without a background in finance, Jen is passionate about democratizing access to Wall Street for EVERYONE. Co-founding The Wall Street Skinny with her best friend, Kristen, has enabled her to share her knowledge and expertise with the next generation. Jen also brings a talent for creative writing to an industry that can be -- let's face it --a little dry!
Jen is a mom to two boys and a Border Collie rescue dog in Charlotte North Carolina. She also has ten years of experience investing in and brokering residential real estate transactions.
Connect with The Wall Street Skinny:
Learn More About The Wall Street Skinny: The Wall Street Skinny
Connect on Instagram: The Wall Street Skinny
LinkedIn: Kristen K
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Transcript
Introduction to Alternative Investments
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Alternatives Mason Podcast. With host Brittany Mason, Chief of Staff at Bonner & Capital Management, you'll learn how to build alternatives knowledge brick by brick. Bonner & Capital Management uses technology to help independent advisors scale and educate themselves on alternative investments. Since education is such a big piece of what we do, we are excited to kick off the series to dive into the missing bricks of the alternative space.
Meet Kristin and Jen from The Wall Street Skinny
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello everyone, it is Brittany mason back with another episode of the alternative mason from bonnie and capital so excited to have you guys here i'm really excited about my guests today that we have having these discussions right here on the green couch.
00:00:36
Speaker
The Wall Street Skinny, they are in the house today. So, so excited. Kristin and Jen, they are two lifelong friends and proud nerds. Love that. Me too. And grew up pursuing other academic interests, but found your way into the financial service industry. Your podcasters, teachers, mentors, and community builders looking to inspire, educate, and entertain the next generation.
00:01:03
Speaker
You have a combined experience of 25 years working and teaching on Wall Street and you're both mothers and just doing it all. So I'm excited to have you on here and to really dig deep onto your journey into this industry and have our listeners learn so much from you. So thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having us on, Brittany. My God, that introduction makes us sound so much cooler than we actually are.
00:01:30
Speaker
Like I was just saying before we started recording, I was already following you before Shayna even mentioned having you on the podcast. So when she's mentioned the Wall Street Skinny, I was like, Oh my God, absolutely get them on. So we're so excited to be here. And we're big fans of Shayna as she's been a wonderful supporter. And honestly, it's so inspiring to see her every day speaking on whether it's CNBC or Bloomberg or whatever it is, sharing her takes on things. We have a lot to learn from her as well.
From Childhood Friends to Wall Street Careers
00:01:59
Speaker
Yes, yes, she is such a powerhouse and has been a phenomenal mentor to me as well. So now I would love to just, you know, start from the beginning. How did the two of you meet?
00:02:14
Speaker
You want to take this, Kristen? You want me to go first? Yeah. We met in second grade. So we've been friends for a really long time. We are also turning 40 this year. So you can do that. But yeah, so we met in second grade. We were, you know, it's funny cause those kids, we were, as we said, we were nerds. Like we were the people that like, no one would eat lunch with us. Cause we were just kind of like sad. We were, you know, we were very studious, but we were just not cool.
00:02:38
Speaker
Um, and then we both went to, we stayed friends. We went to different, uh, high schools, different colleges. Again, like I actually went and I did my like sophomore year spring break at Princeton with Jen. Like I, you know.
00:02:54
Speaker
She actually got a job at Morgan Stanley, her junior year, an internship. I had never heard of Wall Street. I was, again, studying engineering, knew nothing about it. And when I was visiting her that one summer, I think it was on my birthday actually.
00:03:09
Speaker
And I was super jealous that she was my 21st birthday. But I was so jealous because she was like, yeah, I'm learning all this amazing stuff. And she had this whole network of all these friends. And it just seems like a really cool way to combine something that was a little more analytical.
00:03:27
Speaker
when the faster pays environment where you were kind of like at the center of things that were going on, you know, front page of the Wall Street Journal.
Why Are Early Internships Crucial for Wall Street Careers?
00:03:33
Speaker
And so I ended up kind of like really struggling to get a job on Wall Street because I didn't have sort of that critical junior year internship. And so I ended up actually sticking around and doing an extra year. I did a master's in like innovation management and entrepreneurship because my college I went to Brown and that was the closest thing they had to finance.
00:03:54
Speaker
So I was able to sort of do that, stay in the, or get into the recruiting cycle and then got a job on Wall Street. But one of the things was like, it was just so hard to get my foot in the door, not having the internship because I just didn't know about these opportunities. And that's why for me, it is so important to educate people who are younger about this very narrow path. You know, we actually had put this video up yesterday and the day before on sort of like, how do you get into a job on Wall Street? And it's so critical to get those early internships. And if you don't,
00:04:22
Speaker
you're kind of boxed out. And people get mad about it. And I'm like, this is why we have our account. We want people to know that you do need to learn early. And so anyway, that's kind of like, I went a little bit further than the question you asked. I will let Jen pipe in and give her a background. But yeah, I mean, we feel very strongly that people need to have access to this information because it is. I mean, like the world of Wall Street opens up these doors that are just otherwise shut in people's faces. And it's a path to much higher earning potential than you would potentially otherwise have.
00:04:52
Speaker
So anyway. No, Kristen, all of what you said rings so true for me. And I think you hear so much now about the epidemic of loneliness and the perceived lack of opportunity for so many young people out there who feel like their career is over before it's even started. And listen, not everyone wants to work on Wall Street. I totally get that. I didn't want to work on Wall Street when I started on Wall Street. And by the way, like Kristen said, we're going to be 40 this year and I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.
00:05:21
Speaker
But what was so
Jen's Unplanned Path to Finance
00:05:28
Speaker
I think different and eye-opening for me about the experience having a summer internship and then working on Wall Street was suddenly understanding this huge field of opportunity that's out there, that no one's gonna give you a handbook and say, hey, listen, here's how it works. Here are what mutual funds are. Here's what asset managers are, hedge funds, private equity funds. Here's what investment banks are, et cetera, et cetera. No one is telling you that as a young person and no one's giving you that roadmap. So our goal is to simply educate people about the field of opportunity out there
00:05:57
Speaker
arm them with the knowledge and the skillset to then make informed decisions. And if you decide after you hear about what's out there that that doesn't interest you, totally fine. If you're curious about it, you can learn more. Maybe you can see what it does for you and open some doors for you and go on to do whatever the heck it is you want with the rest of your life and have this amazing gold seal of approval on your resume. Or maybe you discover that you actually do have a passion about whatever it is, the markets, investing, but not knowing
00:06:23
Speaker
doesn't help anyone. So we're doing our best to make this information available to people and meeting people where they are. And young people are on social media these days. And listen, you can spend your life scrolling through TikTok, feeling bad about yourself, wanting to get plastic surgery to look like a Kardashian or whatever it is. Or you can spend your life scrolling through TikTok and maybe learning how to value a company or learning about what's going on the market.
00:06:44
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, Krista and I know like that it was not originally what you had thought you were going to do but Jen was, was, you know, this industry always something you were interested in I mean I know I heard you just say you didn't really actually want to even work on Wall Street.
00:07:03
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, no, I was an English major when I was in college and I thought my life's goal was to go float on a raft in the Mediterranean writing a book of essays. And listen, I'm sure someone has made a lot of money doing that, but that wasn't exactly the path to financial independence when I was in college. And one theme that we talk about a lot is the importance of mentors.
00:07:23
Speaker
And I was fortunate enough, I was in a sorority in college and Princeton doesn't really have a big fraternity, Greek life sorority scene going on, but they were limited small social networks that provided a formal mechanism by which underclassmen women and upperclassmen women could connect and build friendships. And I was really lucky to have a wonderful mentor in the form of my big sister and my sorority.
00:07:43
Speaker
And I was talking to her about, oh, you know, all my friends are doing their iBanking internships. And I don't know what that is. I thought it stood for internet banking, like online banking. And I had no clue. She was already,
The Role and Importance of Mentorship
00:07:56
Speaker
she already had a full-time offer secured at Goldman Sachs at that point. And she said, listen, you know, you can go figure out what you want to be when you grow up later, but this can actually be a great way to learn. It's almost like an intermediate step after college, if you will, to
00:08:09
Speaker
be a proper working adult, meet lots of people, work around really smart people and continue learning and get paid to do so. And so getting that advice from her was really critical for me. So I basically applied on a whim having no idea what I was doing. I actually spent an hour on the phone yesterday with the man who was my first round interview when I was applying for my job at Lehman Brothers. And we're still friends after all these years.
00:08:36
Speaker
And he's been in the industry, he's a living legend. He's had a three, four decade long career. And once I got into it,
00:08:43
Speaker
Even if the subject material wasn't something that I'd ever had a previous interest in, what is so cool is understanding the mechanisms that actually make the world turn and build wealth and move markets and change people's lives. Having a front row seat to that at the age of 21 years old, there's nothing like it. And there are very few other opportunities that will provide you that access so early on in your career.
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the other thing, it's funny because I was when I was in college and I had, again, like I said, really like worked my butt off to get an offer. I told my younger brother who he was two years behind me, also at Brown, also studying engineering. He also, like me, like didn't know what he wanted to do. And I was like, here's the deal. Like, if you go and get an internship at, you know, on Wall Street, it's an option.
00:09:30
Speaker
It's a free option, actually, or it's an option that you're getting paid significantly to get. So why wouldn't you do that? And if you decide you hate it, then you now know. Or if you decide you want to get in, well, you're kind of shit out of luck. And actually, he would have been super shit out of luck because he graduated in 2008. So having that internship meant that he was able to obviously get a job offer when everyone else was entering the job market and there were certain jobs available. But I do think that it's one of these things where
00:09:58
Speaker
Again, if people are just not aware of opportunities, then it feels very unfair. And I do think it's like one of these things where just knowing about what the path is, is like half of the battle. Like you are at a leg up if you know what the opportunities are. And by the way, it's funny because every single person these days is like so laser focused on private equity, which has the most narrow path.
00:10:22
Speaker
And one of the things that, again, we're trying to do is educate people about there is a whole world of other opportunities out there. You don't have to go into private equity to be successful. There's asset management. There's hedge funds. There's, I mean, sales and trading, right? There's all these different places that you could go. It's not just this one very specific thing. And I do think that people just, again, need to be educated on the world of opportunities because it's vast.
00:10:44
Speaker
Yes, it's so vast. I mean, you know, like I mean, I like I had said earlier, this is a whole this is a whole new world for me from what I was doing before I was more in marketing entertainment and in production. And so making the switch over to finance, you know, just a couple years ago, I was I was overwhelmed in the beginning because I was like, I really don't know what I where I want to focus or
00:11:08
Speaker
you know, what do I focus on learning first? I don't know what, you know, space is right for me or where I fit into all of this. And, you know, even the language and stuff too, infinite, immediate, imitating, you know, so to really simplify that. And I think you ladies do a great job of that on your social media, making the content
Making Finance Content Engaging and Feminine
00:11:29
Speaker
so much more fun and digestible. And I love some of the jump scare videos that you do.
00:11:37
Speaker
I was going to hit me. Well, I will say this. Science can be boring as hell, right? Like, let's be honest. I think that's a lot of the reason that a lot of young people don't get into it. Because like you were just talking about sports and marketing and entertainment, that sounds great. I want to be in that, right? That sounds like something where I can have a great time and meet lots of exciting people, right? Why am I already looking at a spreadsheet all day?
00:12:00
Speaker
And when we first decided that we wanted to reach young people on social media, there's the challenge of stopping the scroll. How do you convince someone who is sitting on their phone at 10 p.m. in their bed trying to fall asleep that you need to suddenly pay attention to a video about how an interest rate swap works, right? And so, so much of our challenge was how do we bring personality and life and joy and fun and humor into some stuff that can be really, really boring?
00:12:29
Speaker
And we decided to make content that we ourselves would want to watch, right? I like to watch Bravo, right? So if we're going to talk about things that are going on in finance, let's do it through the lens of the Real Housewives. Let's have fun with it. And we built what we would have wanted when we were young and just learning about the industry. And that's not going to be for everyone. Some people really want to read a textbook. If you want to read a textbook, you're not going to have fun watching our stuff.
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the other thing that we really wanted to do was we wanted to put a feminine twist on things because everything that's on social media is very masculine or I'm sorry, let me rephrase. Everything that is highlighted is very masculine. So the memes, it's sort of the finance bro tropes, right? It's the American psycho references. And every once in a while it's like, it'll be like a guy trying to put something out that they think a girl would like, but it's not, right? It's just, it's forced, it's awkward, it's weird. And so we really wanted again to have a feminine sort of
00:13:22
Speaker
twist on things, our content's for everyone. I don't care if you're, you know, whoever. We want everyone to benefit, but we also, again, want to be like a counterbalance in, so when people are learning and getting up the curve, they see all the masculine stuff. Again, that's great. But then there is that counterbalance because there are a lot of women on Wall Street. And I think that there also potentially are people that choose not to go that route because they sort of think that it's not for them. When it's like, no, there are a lot of women and you can be successful if you decide to pursue it.
00:13:49
Speaker
I also think, Brittany, that is such a great point, Kristin, and I think you talked earlier about jargon being so intimidating. I think much of the content you see about finance, whether it be the traditional finance media, you know, listen, CNBC, Bloomberg, they're all great, right? But if you're just learning and you're watching trying to get basic information, the base level vocabulary that you need to have to be able to understand that content, there are finance podcasts that Kristin and I listened to with our combined experience and knowledge
00:14:18
Speaker
And I'll be like, I have no idea what they're talking about. And ostensibly this is something I'm an expert in. And I do think that a lot of the people putting out content either are so deeply immersed in the industry that they forget what it's like to be someone who hasn't been a lifelong practitioner or there's someone who's like,
00:14:35
Speaker
really maybe kind of still has one foot in the door and hopes that someone will one day hire them and think they're really smart. I am unhireable on Wall Street. I have been dancing on the internet now for a year, making a fool out of myself. And I am perfectly comfortable with that. I would much rather devote my energy to being approachable. And it gives us a platform too, to talk about things that other people may not be able to talk about because we're not trying to get hired, right? We're not trying to present ourselves as perfect and as all knowing. So we can ask the dumb questions
00:15:01
Speaker
And we can have the really honest conversations, whether it be about hiring practices, whether it be about challenges that mothers are facing in the workplace, right? Kristen and I are sitting here having 15 minute long conversations about navigating nursing while trying to field trade inquiries. I'm sorry, but no one else is having those conversations right now in an honest way.
00:15:18
Speaker
And I think if we really want to support, whether it's women or just young people in general, getting into an industry, we need to be able to have those very honest and raw conversations. And we have no skin in the game. We have nothing to lose. So we have a platform to do that. Exactly. I love that. Now we were talking about mentors and the importance of them.
00:15:38
Speaker
How do you find, you know, what kind of advice do you have to, you know, young people looking for a mentor and how do they approach someone to really be their mentor and build that relationship?
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think so much of it is, is, you know, it's not so much like going out and being like, I want to find a mentor, but finding people that you connect with who, you know, are good teachers and it could be in the group you're in. Although it's funny, we actually had put something out and suggested that and got a lot of people that like never, you know, never have a mentor in your group. Your boss is not your mentor. And I was like, no, I disagree with that. You can disagree.
00:16:13
Speaker
in your boss. But I think that so much of it is you just have to find people that, for whatever reason, they want to be a teacher. They want to be helpful. And also making sure that we talked about just almost approaching things from a standpoint of surface, that you're not always taking from that mentor. That mentor is going to help you try to help them back. And it might be with silly things. Maybe you're going out of your way to get them a coffee. And I'm not saying you should be running. But little things.
00:16:41
Speaker
it's a two-way street. And I think that so many people sometimes think I need to find a mentor who's going to be always like sharing me with all this stuff. And it's like, but it goes both ways. If you are making that person's life easier, they're really, they're going to want to invest more in you. And I know, you know, my husband, for example, he had this amazing mentor who brought him to like multiple firms because my husband was so invaluable to him.
00:17:05
Speaker
But again, it went both ways. So I think that it's finding the people that you connect with, finding the people that you just have that genuine connection with, and making sure that it's not a one-way street.
00:17:15
Speaker
That's exactly right. We had an awesome conversation with a female investment banking CEO and she said, what are the odds that you find someone that you really, really like and they don't like you back? If you look around the room and you see someone and you're like, gosh, I want to be just like them. There's so much about them that I respect and admire and I like, and I gravitate towards and you approach them and say, Hey, listen, I would love to be your understudy. I would love to learn from you, whatever it is. Can we spend some time together? Can I work on making your life easier? You know,
00:17:45
Speaker
Oh, whatever it is, right? Deliver something of value to them. The odds of that person is going to be like, absolutely not. I have no time for you. I hate you. You're ugly. Goodbye. Like, what are the odds? This isn't the boy you had a crush on in middle school, right? So maybe it doesn't work out, but if you don't try and you don't ask and you're not comfortable with the possibility of rejection, the answer is always going to be no. Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker
Oh no, I was gonna kind of well switch a little bit up on like, you are both very successful women. You're managing so much. You've started the Wall Street Skinny, which has grown really quickly.
Balancing Podcast Growth with Professional and Personal Lives
00:18:28
Speaker
I mean, you started it what, a year ago? Is that right? We just had our one year anniversary.
00:18:36
Speaker
20,000 followers on Instagram already. We have 173,000 followers. I think as of this morning, um, on Instagram, uh, and another call it 30,000 on Tik TOK, our YouTube channel, our fledgling YouTube channel is growing. Yeah. And, and we're averaging about 50,000 downloads a month on our podcast. So we're, we're growing, we are small, but mighty and we are growing fast. That's amazing. So, I mean, how do we.
00:19:03
Speaker
Um, you know, can, can women really have it all? I mean, from the outside, it looks like you do. So how do you manage all of that and what's your advice to other women that are in the industry who are trying to have it all? You know, what does that look like?
00:19:17
Speaker
So first of all, I think having it all is such a subjective thing. What does it all mean for you? Because what it all means to me right now, verging on 40, is very different than what it meant to me when I was 25 and single and didn't have kids. And it was all about me.
00:19:36
Speaker
My life is no longer all about me. So ironically, having it all for me means doing things that I think leave a legacy behind me for making other people's lives better and enriching the life of my family. If you'd asked me 15 years ago what happened at all, I'd be like, I want this salary. I want like this engagement, right? Like I was, you know, I want, I want to weigh this much. Like these were the things that were top of mind for me then that are just not top of mind for me now. So having it all for me right now means having
00:20:06
Speaker
a balance of career and personal life that's intellectually and emotionally fulfilling in equal measure. And I get to, because of this entrepreneurship that we have embarked upon, I get to spend really meaningful time with my kids. I spend less time with them than I would if I weren't working, but that time is really, really high quality and that's important to me. And I am working more hours now than I ever have worked.
00:20:33
Speaker
And I leap out of bed in the morning. I'm annoyed when I have to sleep at night. And so that to me is having it all. I guess the thing that I don't have a lot of is alone time to like sit with my thoughts. But to be honest right now, that's not something that's important to me. And if anything, if I spend too much time alone with my thoughts, I probably like start getting spun up and worried about things. I like being so busy that I don't have time to stress or worry. And I get to just roll with it.
00:20:59
Speaker
So that's what having it all means to me now, but that may be very different for other women. Yeah. And I think two other things. I mean, number one, obviously having a good support network is everything having supportive partners. I mean, my husband works his butt off and then he still is like doing all the stuff with the kids. And if I'm working on any cleans, by the way, I mean, like he's, he's, he's amazing.
00:21:21
Speaker
Um, so again, I think having support, whether it is via family, whether it is hired help, we also do have a nanny. Again, thank God. I don't know how she handles all three of my kids. I love them to death. They are hard AF. Um, and so it's, it's having that support. The other thing is, as Jen said, I mean, some people want to be full-time moms. Like they want to be with their kids all the time. And I have so much respect for that. Cause by the way, that is way harder than in my job.
00:21:45
Speaker
anything else. But I love Emily Oster. She had this, you know, she was talking about like, everybody's gonna have a different opinion, especially when it comes to kids. She was like, as an economist, she's like, you know, what's the marginal value? She's like, the marginal value of the time I get to spend with my kids, like one hour that I spend with them at the end of the day, that's great. That's quality time. Now, if it was all like, the all day, the marginal benefit of those extra hours, it almost starts to be like,
00:22:11
Speaker
the other way like it starts to get very overwhelming. So I do think that for some people having it all is going to be working and being intellectually stimulated and having their own business or going into the office. Some people that's what they want and other people want to be with their kids 24 seven because they know their kids are going to be young only so long and they want to soak up every minute. Jen and I I think fall into the camp of we like to have the intellectual pursuits and then spend you know
00:22:37
Speaker
time with our kids, but all day, every day is to me like that's too much. I love them to death. They are really, really hard. So to the moms out there who are full time moms or to the, you know, nannies or the babysitters, like so much respect.
00:22:54
Speaker
So I want to talk Kaitlyn Clark, all right? She just got drafted, we know, to the Indiana Fever. Woo-hoo, I'm proud, proud user here. I'm from Indiana, so I'm really excited. So, you know, but there is a lot of controversy and discussions over her salary and the drastic difference between the WNBA and NBA.
Gender Pay Gaps: Sports vs. Finance
00:23:14
Speaker
And, you know, yes, she's going to get quite a lot of endorsements. We know that she's going to be fine. But, you know, what are your thoughts on, you know,
00:23:24
Speaker
the differences between how men and women are paid and are in our fields and how do we as women make sure that we are getting our worth.
00:23:34
Speaker
I think what's interesting about her is it's funny actually my daughter was so like was enthralled watching that final game I think it was against South Carolina she was like just glued to the screen and I saw a graph and it was like, for the first time ever, the viewership of a women's basketball game was higher than men.
00:23:55
Speaker
And so I feel like that's going to be the trend going forward. So I think for someone like her, where, you know, the argument against paying her more is, well, you know, people aren't watching it. Like it's not bringing that much money into the teams and all that. I think that that's going to change with her. It's kind of like how, you know, when Tiger Woods came on the scene, everybody wanted to watch golf.
00:24:14
Speaker
that's who I was. I remember I was so upset we went to the PGA and I think it was two years ago and he had just had his accidents who wasn't playing. I was just like well what's the point of going to the PGA now? So I do think that there are certain people and personalities that like are going to draw so much attention. I think she should be paid a lot more because again I feel like it's like the future potential earnings is going to be much higher for the WNBA because of her and for her team. So
00:24:38
Speaker
I think there is a problem there. Now, I am sympathetic to the argument that there is less money to go around. So it becomes hard, but I still feel like for someone like her, I don't think that that's right. So that's my two cents. I feel like that's, again, if you're actually doing evaluation and looking at what they should expect they're going to have in terms of money coming in, it seems like she should be paid higher because the net present value of which is going to bring in is going to be pretty darn high. That's my two cents.
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah, I, uh, professional sports aren't really my thing. I don't really understand the driving factors for what athletes get paid. So I don't want to speak out of turn, but I have very strong feelings about overall conversations about compensation.
00:25:23
Speaker
in our industry, which if I were to find out that that kind of pay gap existed between men and women in comparable jobs in our industry, that to me would be hugely upsetting.
00:25:39
Speaker
especially when there are hard dollars and demonstrable P&L tied to your name in any given role. It should not matter, you know, literally take name, face, age, race, everything off of it. There is a hard number attached to your name and you deserve to be compensated for that to the best of your ability. Now, I think one thing that we do not have on Wall Street that is happening in the sports world is that amount of transparency about pay.
00:26:08
Speaker
And I think that it's a conversation that women need to be having with other women in a supportive way and an open way that we haven't historically been having. And I know the guys on the desk talk about what they get paid all the time. They are little busy buddies gossiping about it all the time. And one dude on one desk in one seat at one firm knows what all of his buddies who are in the same seat are making at every other bank across the street. They know what their 10 hedge fund bros are doing and.
00:26:37
Speaker
I don't think women are having those same conversations in our space. And I would really encourage women to start having those conversations and not being afraid to talk about money with each other because that's empowering, right? And having those conversations with both our male and female counterparts and being very open about that, I think is a huge step towards increasing transparency and decreasing that pay gap where it still exists. Yes.
00:27:02
Speaker
And I think there is, again, the pay transparency is something that even for, you know, Jen and I navigating this very like interesting world of social media and, you know, brand partnerships and stuff, there is such, again, crazy, like everything is gated, like nobody, because there's no talk about certain things, like you just, you don't know like what you should be asking for. I kind of do feel like, again, with, um,
00:27:27
Speaker
you know, the situation with the WNBA, it does feel a little bit like she's being taken advantage of because she's young. Like there should be catch-ups or something. It's like, that could be her base salary. And then like, she should get some percent. I just feel like she's going to be, she's going to change the WNBA. That's my opinion. Because there are certain figures like Serena William and tennis. I mean, there's, like I said, the Tiger Woods, I just think certain people, because people want to watch them, it changes the game. And I feel like she should participate in that upside.
00:27:57
Speaker
There are so, and just to be clear for our listeners, the structure of how NBA and WNBA players are paid are different. I was just doing a little bit of research on it. And so NBA players receive 51% of all revenue as defined as basketball related income. Whereas WNBA players receive 50% of incremental revenue.
00:28:22
Speaker
Uh, that exceeds certain league defined targets. Yeah. I don't know what any of that means other than it sounds like there's a double standard here and that's ridiculous. If it's two and 20, it's two and 20. So, um, this might be a bit of a controversial topic to some of our male listeners, but I want to dig into it. I'm not sure if you've heard of what the four B movement is that started over in Korea.
The 4B Movement and Gender Dynamics
00:28:53
Speaker
Yes. Well, so, and then just overall, I mean, I know where there's a lot of discussions about the great wealth transfer that's going to happen and a lot of that, a great deal of that wealth is going to go to women. Um, and so the four, so the four B movement over in
00:29:09
Speaker
just so people are aware a lot of women are abstaining from men, not dating, not getting married, not having children, and it's becoming such an issue in the country that they're actually concerned about the population and that this continues for another five years.
00:29:24
Speaker
there will be no first graders. They're gonna literally lose out on an entire population. And this movement is starting to gain traction in other areas of the world. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on how the dynamic of men and women, our relationships, our working relationships and how that power dynamic could really change in the next five to 10 years.
00:29:54
Speaker
that when women are having more control and more over their finances than ever before? Well, I think that's amazing, right? Like having more control over your finances. I do think that there is, you know, it's one of these things and we get this all the time where people are like, you know, as we put out a video today, it's like women are, you know, minorities, women, all these people are having the door held over open for them and no one's holding the door open for me.
00:30:21
Speaker
And I think that there obviously were historical real issues and things that need to be changed and that have started to get better. At the same time, I don't think it's a good thing that you have this generation of men that now are starting to feel like they're a victim, that are starting to feel like they're not having the same opportunities because I think Scott Galloway says this the best. We want men to be successful because at the end of the day,
00:30:49
Speaker
First of all, women who want to have partners, I think a lot of them they do want to marry people that are their intellectual equal that are, you know, they're equal on an earning side. And so I think that it actually is not great for women to like have men not succeeding. And I also think it's dangerous because if you think about it, it's like, it's like,
00:31:06
Speaker
There's nothing scarier, I think, than a person and a man that feels that the world has turned against him. Because I think that the way that they handle that is very, very negative. I think you're starting to see people get radicalized. I think that it's dangerous. And so I think at the end of the day, we definitely want women to succeed. And we want women to do well. Everything that's going on, I think, is amazing.
00:31:31
Speaker
I also think at the same time to just sort of say, well, men suck it up. I don't think that that's good for anyone. I think it's bad as a society. And again, I think it's bad for women. I think it's just bad for everybody. So I do hope that, and I don't know, I hope that, again, men start to feel that
00:31:50
Speaker
they do have opportunities, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I think that it's, it's potentially dangerous. Sorry, that was a little bit long winded, but. No, I, I think what you really found, you know, when you asked earlier about like, again, can women have it all, right? I have never once, and I grew up in a really privileged background. I had two loving parents, you know, and I identified very early on a loving partner who I do view as my intellectual equal and my partner in every way, shape, or form.
00:32:20
Speaker
I never once felt that choosing to be in a relationship, get married, have kids was ever holding me back from what I wanted to do. I have never looked at it through that lens. This was always something that I actively chose, not because society wanted it for me or anything like that. This was literally what I want every single step. And I had the privilege to actively make that choice.
00:32:44
Speaker
If people are making that choice because of societal constraints, because of fear, because of an inability to access opportunity, those are the wrong reasons to be choosing those things. And so I can understand wanting to divest of that, right? Of I'm getting married because someone says I had to, I'm having kids because someone says I have to, my biological clock is ticking and blah, blah, blah. I just simply happened to want these things at certain junctures in my life and I went after them.
00:33:09
Speaker
I think where we get into trouble is the idea that in order to pursue what you want intellectually and emotionally, those things are totally in conflict with having a romantic partner, having children. Why is it that way? Why can't we, instead of making it an either-or,
00:33:30
Speaker
be both and. And I think that if we directed some of that energy rather into coming up with more ways to support women who want to try to juggle multiple things and want to have more well-rounded lives that aren't just work or just family or whatever it is and say, Hey, listen, you know, Kristen, you're talking about having a nanny, having a nanny.
00:33:52
Speaker
you should be proud that you have a nanny. That is something that you never have to be ashamed of. I had significant childcare help when my kids were younger and they weren't in school. I mean, these are very simple things that we could be normalizing and supporting at an institutional level. And whether it be coming up with, hey, listen, daycare for all, whatever it is. If we were to
00:34:17
Speaker
institutionalized practices that support women, I don't think women would feel like they had to make these choices and make such radical choices of, I want nothing to do with the opposite sex whatsoever. If that's how you truly feel, that's fine. But I don't think that that choice to cut more things out of your life is empowering.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah. And I also, I mean, again, like I can't, you know, obviously like Jen, I chose to get married. I chose to have kids. I also feel like I'm incredibly lucky. I think Jen and I both far that we have such incredibly supportive partners and who do so much, you know, for us. And like, thank goodness, like my husband-
00:34:58
Speaker
I mean, yeah, well for us with us. Um, but it's funny it's like my husband will like clean up after because I'm a disaster so it's like you know we go then he's like, like tidying up and, you know, he's, and by the way he works his butt off and he wants to, you know, make an amazing life for us and for you know my kids like
00:35:14
Speaker
And he's a good person. And it's like, I do think that if you have good friends and a support network and you don't want to get married, that's totally fine. I do think, though, there is something nice about having a partner who's with you through the things that go well and go badly in your life. And so I don't know. It makes me sad for people that are choosing this for maybe the wrong reasons. So I don't know.
00:35:41
Speaker
But again, it's like, everyone should do what makes you happy. And I'm sure there are people out there that don't want to get married and are very happy with that choice. And again, I think that that's amazing. People who don't want kids. We actually went out to dinner last night with a couple. They have no interest in kids and they're killing it. They do so well. I mean, they're thrilled with their choice. And again, if that's your choice, that's amazing. But I just, I wonder like what's driving that. And anyway.
00:36:08
Speaker
Well, I know in Korea, it's very different reasons than, you know, the women that are now catching on to this movement in the West.
Modern Gender Roles and Relationship Complexities
00:36:15
Speaker
So very, very different reasons. But, you know, I mean, I am not married and I definitely feel the dating fatigue. I would say that, you know, there's been heavy conversations and seeing like these different gender roles and how they're really, it feels like it's really evolving.
00:36:33
Speaker
Um, or in changing. And so, um, I do, I agree. I think it's really important that we keep in mind, men are part of the conversation. We're not trying to alienate them out or disempower them whatsoever. We're just trying to find, um, you know, ways for women to still have, you know, access to those same opportunities and as, as well. So I'm also curious, I mean, and this is just.
00:36:57
Speaker
You know, one of my closest friends here is single and I, you know, I kind of live vicariously through her, right? I'm like, oh, let me, let me swipe through the dating apps for you, right? Like, let me look through these guys, right? But I dated in a time before online dating when, you know, I mean, my husband and I met at work in a type of interaction that, I mean, we worked together, you know, the type of interaction that we would both get fired for, you know, within a minute for today, right?
00:37:24
Speaker
I do wonder to what extent the way that we've made all romantic relationships so transactional now where it's, did you meet this criteria? I met you on this app and I think the apps are really imbalanced towards the power relationships between men and women where, you know, there's this lack of disclosure of how many people are you talking to? And what does talking to mean? And this whole conversation now, I don't think that any of that bodes well.
00:37:51
Speaker
for the kind of healthy romantic relationships that a lot of women want in their lives. They want those organic relationships. They do. They don't want something that feels like it was engineered by an algorithm. And I wonder if that's a lot of the fatigue that you're talking about.
00:38:11
Speaker
Right? Like you just want that natural human connection to anyone, right? To men and women in your life. Most women aren't meeting other women on apps and those relationships are really fulfilling that you have with your girlfriends. So wouldn't you want that with your romantic partner too? Yeah.
00:38:28
Speaker
It's funny actually my my brother and my sister-in-law were on the apps at the same time and they both would complain about the opposite sex. My brother would be like, women are just going out with me to use me for dinner and then my, you know, sister-in-law would be like, you know, every guy I meet, it's like they feel like they just are like looking for the next thing, you know, it's like, because there's always somebody else who might be better, you know, and so it's, I mean, and ironically, both of them
00:38:50
Speaker
have now met their partners. They both met them on the apps. My sister-in-law is about to get married and my brother got married last year, has a baby. So they, they ultimately did, you know, meet someone and did on the apps. But it was so funny because I feel like both felt that there was an in just a power dynamic that was not
00:39:09
Speaker
The other thing, and again, I feel like I talk about Jen's going to kill me because I mentioned Scott all the time, but I also think that one of the things that's interesting is that when you, especially with a guy, like if you meet a guy out, women have such different criteria. I actually think that like, if you, you, you tend to fall in love, not because of what's on paper, but just because of like the energy and the dynamic. And I think that one of the things that's a problem with the apps is like, everyone just becomes all these criteria on paper. So you might not go out with the person that like, if you met them,
00:39:39
Speaker
Like in real life might be your life partner because again, they totally short, right? They didn't go to the right school. You don't get to see them in the wild. You're seeing them in these controlled one-on-one interviews. I want to see how you are at a party. I want to see how you accidentally treat people around you in public in a group setting. And that's very hard to do when it's like, I need to meet you one-on-one for these robot, you know, I don't know. Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
Absolutely, oh my goodness. Sorry, I was not ranting about dating apps, but. This is all, I mean, like, I'm, I'm, I'm single and dating. And so I'm on the apps and boy, it is exhausting. And it's just, it's, it feels discouraging sometimes. And it's like, but then it's like, what else do you do? That's how our world has become. And that's how you, you know, meet people. But back before when I was, when I was single, it was very different. Yeah. It was like, you meet people in person. So it is very different now.
00:40:38
Speaker
Um, but it's, I don't know, it's funny. Cause like when the Barbie movie came out last year, I was like, I remember watching that and like looking to one of my girlfriends and just being like, you know, I almost feel like. Because since 2016, I feel like women, you know, because we have the Me Too movement and it's like, it feels like a very different space in our world for women. Now, you know, we have more power and a voice than we've ever had before.
00:41:04
Speaker
And so when the Barbie movie came out last year and seeing the power dynamic shifts in that movie and Ken goes through a whole identity crisis, I looked at one of my girlfriends and we were kind of discussing like, you know, I wonder if men, men are gonna have to go through their own kind of movement themselves. Like we have and like we are, you know, as women right now.
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, no, that, I actually, I loved that movie. I thought it was like, I thought it was so clever. Ryan Gosling is freaking hilarious. Margot Robbie is just, I mean, she's everything. And then actually the end, like I was like bawling. I was like in tears when they were like showing sort of the flashbacks with the kids and everything. But yeah, I do think that, I do think, again, because,
00:41:52
Speaker
men. And it was funny, like, we had a conversation with this one woman actually was the female manager conversation, we did a podcast on this. And we were talking about how when she was at Harvard, she like was walking back from a rowing practice or no soccer practice, she's a soccer player. And there was this, you know,
00:42:15
Speaker
Harvard male athletes who want to go to Wall Street event and it was just for men. And she was, she decided to walk in and actually that's how she ultimately met a mentor who became her mentor in the long run. And at the time we were sort of like horrified, like, Oh my God, they had a men only, you know, event.
00:42:31
Speaker
And we were thinking about it actually after the facts. And I was like, huh, but we do have events for women and events for minorities. And I do think, again, it's one of those things where, whether it's true or not, perception becomes, unfortunately, like reality for people. So I do worry that, again, men do see that other people are getting these events, and I don't get an event. Why don't I get it?
00:42:53
Speaker
And I think that it's dangerous. And I do think that somehow, because there are, as we've talked about, there are real issues that were in place. And that's still linger. I mean, the number of women in senior positions at a lot of these firms is like minuscule.
00:43:09
Speaker
And so there are still problems. But I do worry that the way that we are trying to address them is creating new problems. And again, like I said, perception is kind of everything. And the number of people that on our social media
00:43:24
Speaker
tell us all the time, you only got your job because of DEI. And Jen and I are sitting there and I'm like, I know that that's not the case for me. I mean, my brother literally was me two years behind. It's like same GPA, same major, same everything. Like we're the same person. And so I feel pretty confident, but it's like to get that every single day, you're just like, are you kidding me? And for any person who feels like their role in something has an asterisk behind it, because that is the perception, whether it's reality or not, I do think is damaging
00:43:53
Speaker
Anyway, I don't know what the sort of solution is, but I feel like we have to figure out a better path to come out. Yeah, the pendulum just swings so far in either direction every time we try to make a correction, right? There's no women on Wall Street. Now, if you're a woman, you're automatically getting hired is the perception. That's not obviously the case, but every time we try to implement imperfect policies,
00:44:19
Speaker
the pendulum is going to swing too far and there needs to be a correction. And I'm not saying we've hired too many women on Wall Street. This is a huge problem. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying the implementation of a lot of these policies has been far from perfect, has created unintended knock on consequences, and we need to pivot and adjust in real time. And that's okay, by the way, right? We're not always going to get it right. So let's just, instead of saying,
00:44:43
Speaker
Well, now we have to dig our heels in and further entrench. Let's take conversational about it and acknowledge ways that these policies can be, you know, tweaked and worked on and improved, right?
Diversity Policies in Finance: Impact and Perceptions
00:44:55
Speaker
That's not such a bad thing. We're still learning. We're all evolving. And as long as we keep that open dialogue. Yeah.
00:45:02
Speaker
And I think the other thing that's so interesting is that, you know, women are graduating at higher rates than men, they are excelling at higher, you know, the valedictorians are mostly women now. So women, you know, if you look at just the criteria, and like if you were hiring someone because you look at two resumes, I do think that women might have a leg up.
00:45:20
Speaker
And again, part of it is because of the education system which again favors, you know, women mature more quickly like there's all these things. And so, but the problem then becomes, I think, because there are not, in my opinion, enough women on Wall Street. I feel like the issue is when women decide to have kids.
00:45:36
Speaker
And that's where it becomes a real challenge. So it's like, I do wish that we were shifting maybe some resources to retaining women and having them just making life a little easier when they want to have kids. And this is, again, a broader conversation. And I don't know what the solution is. But anyway, I do think these policies are going to continue to shift. And I do hope they get better, though, very soon.
00:46:04
Speaker
Well, let's switch it up a little bit. What are your thoughts on ESG focused alternatives and the world
Challenges in ESG Implementation
00:46:12
Speaker
of ESG? It's getting a lot of criticism right now.
00:46:15
Speaker
You know, I honestly think it's, it's almost a similar story, right? Like all of these three letter acronyms that have been the hot button thing over the last 10 years, right? It's things that are well intentioned that are not necessarily implemented in the most thoughtful ways. And they then become right. Just like DEI has become almost like a dirty word. I think ESG has become a dirty word because people don't really, people may have lost the plot.
00:46:39
Speaker
What are we trying to accomplish here? Okay, are we trying to make the planet a better place? Then let's do that, right? But we don't necessarily need to demonize people who are in industries that have been around since the dawn of time. We need to work on creating actionable, sustainable, properly aligned incentives for people to go into business to do things that will ultimately benefit the planet. Like that line of thinking to me is just fine. And I have no problem with that. Yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
We have to back up what we say and what we're selling and, you know. Well, yeah, I mean, it doesn't have to be like, you know, you don't have to say like, I'm never going to fly on a plane again. Right. And therefore, you know, anyone who does is all of a sudden evil. Right. It doesn't have to be. Things don't have to swing so far that we're passing judgment on people and trying to prevent them from living their lives.
00:47:31
Speaker
But unfortunately, we're finding that the electric car experiment is now starting to look like a failure, which I think is actually a big surprise. I did not see that being the end conclusion. And I hope that there's a second act to that. But I'm actually really surprised that we're seeing some of these things that, again, seem to have demonstrable good being kind of build experiments. Yeah. I mean, I think ultimately, the problem is that there's
00:48:02
Speaker
I mean, the way that I see it is I think with technology, you know, with the right amount of money going into developing the right technologies, like I do feel like we'll hopefully get ourselves out of this whole climate crisis thing. Cause again, that is the whole, what could potentially happen if we don't is terrifying. But I do think that it's really hard to convince people to start living differently. If you're like, you need to stop eating meat. People are like, no, like I like meat. So, but if you,
00:48:29
Speaker
are able to create an alternative that tastes the same, that makes you feel the same. That's how you kind of get people out of it. Same thing with Tesla. He created a car, even though I know it's not doing so great right now. I haven't seen the most recent situation, whatever has happened. But making a car that people were choosing, like my brother and my mom have Teslas because they thought it was a cooler car. And there also were subsidies and all that. And so it's like, if you were able to shift people's behavior by making it
00:48:59
Speaker
whatever it is, the thing that's good for the planet seem like the cooler choice, then it's a much easier way to kind of get where you're going. But shaming people into doing things that are a lot harder, like if someone were to shame me and be like, you're not cloth diapering. I'm like,
00:49:13
Speaker
No, like I am not. I am using diapers and they were horrible for the planet, but it's all about the shaming part. And I don't know, I think it's like so many things people have to kind of, the messaging just gets off too, right? I think that that's where we lose the plot. It's in the messaging. I also think, I mean, I read something yesterday or the day before that listed the top 10 contributors to carbon emissions.
00:49:37
Speaker
And none of them are the companies that we're talking about on a day-to-day basis, right? These are all producers in countries that are not aligned with any kind of ESG incentives whatsoever. You know, this is China, this is, you know, this is, so like,
00:49:53
Speaker
The question is, is are we getting ourselves all worked up about things around the margin where there's much bigger political forces at work outside of the conversation that we're basically rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, right? Without addressing some of the much bigger problems at hand. And I'm not qualified to answer that ESG is not my specialty. Um, the E part is really easy for me to get on board with intellectually. Um, but I simply lack the qualification to be able to opine on the best methods of implementation.
00:50:23
Speaker
What are some of your favorite alternative types of investments or that you think we should be paying attention to right
Investment Strategies and Trusted Advice
00:50:30
Speaker
now? Oh, what do you mean? Like what, what do you mean? Do you mean like what asset classes? Do you mean what investment structures like hedge funds versus private equity versus private credit? Like what are we talking about here? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what, what both, what do you know? And, and also where do you find your resources? What do you think are the best resources to
00:50:54
Speaker
um, you know, research what types of alts are, are worth paying attention to. Oh, that sounds really good. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, I mean, I think at the end of the day, if you're able to identify smart people who you trust, like that's always a really great way to go about it. Um, I tend to like certain podcasts. So I listened to, you know, a diet of, uh, like the compound in friends. I love them. You know, I love, um, uh, again,
00:51:23
Speaker
Scott Galloway, not so much on the markets, like Pivot with Kara Swisher, trying to think of some of the other ones, Masters in Business, Adlots, right? There's some really, the All In podcast, there's just some really great podcasts out there where you can get, oh, ahead of it, sorry, on the tape with our friend, Guy Adomian.
00:51:44
Speaker
There's so many great resources now versus what there has been in the past. If that's something that you're interested in, I would definitely recommend listening to some of those. On the investment side, I'm going to be honest, I suck at investing. The best investments I made are where I
00:52:01
Speaker
you know, in my 401k, I just like get the cash, it goes into this percent equities, this percent bonds, I forget about it and never check it. And then I look at it, I'm like, oh cool, I have a lot of money now, you know? Because I am terrible at timing anything. Like if I time something, Jen knows it is like run the other way and do the opposite. So from that perspective, like I'm very much a put my money in passive stuff, never look at it until I hopefully don't need it until I'm like 75.
00:52:28
Speaker
That's my best strategy. But with that said, I do think for people who are more interested in following the markets, learning the markets, I mean, personally, I kind of want to put some money into the Bitcoin ETF just because I think that in the long run, I do think it's probably something that's here to stay. And I think more people are probably going to be putting money into it. So again, it would be a teeny tiny allegation, but I'll probably look into that. I mean, as a risk averse person, I started
00:52:53
Speaker
trying to make sure I was buying treasury or, you know, cash, whatever it was called, high yield accounts, whatever. But yeah, no, I am the worst person to ask about. I love following the markets. But to me, like the best thing I can do is put my money and never look at it until I'm 75.
00:53:08
Speaker
I think Kristin, you made a really good point about finding people you trust. And I was fortunate enough in my career to be covering a lot of the hedge funds and investment managers and have kept a lot of those relationships intact over the years. So for me, it's about understanding where I think the smart people that I know who I
00:53:26
Speaker
think have great trading strategies where they're going and keeping an eye on those funds. And those tend to be a pretty good barometer for success. And I was, we did an interview with Guy Adami. He had started at Drexel Burnham and we kind of joke that, you know, Lehman Brothers was like the Drexel of the past 15 years. That if you look at a lot of the Lehman alums who have now scattered to the four corners of the earth,
00:53:47
Speaker
that people who grew up in that education and training environment tend to be a pretty good measure of success wherever they go and tend to be the ones, you know,
00:53:59
Speaker
pioneering new paths towards building wealth and thinking intelligently about the markets. So, um, for me, it's about identifying individual investors I trust and looking at the direction that they're going and keeping an eye on those funds. Um, those have, those have all done pretty well. We're talking about a lot of the big pod shops that weren't so big when these guys started at them. Um, you know, the millennium guys, when they, when they founded Exodus, you know, those are all Lehman alums. So kind of watching the Lehman trade go through the markets. Here we are 15 years later.
00:54:29
Speaker
Oh my gosh, well, ladies, we're running out of time. I could just keep chatting with you, but is there...
00:54:37
Speaker
How about any advice that you have, any last final words of advice for anyone who is trying to make it over into this industry? Maybe they're switching gears, you know, like I did that, you know, they want to go into finance, you know, maybe they're a little older and they don't know where, you know, how to start or the young people out there that are just getting started in their careers. Any last advice that you can give to our listeners?
00:55:03
Speaker
Well, aside from saying, listen to the Wall Street Skinny podcast. No, but Brittany, I mean, I think your story is honestly so emblematic of what we're trying to accomplish, right? That, listen, you know, here we are, right? We're entering the next decade of our lives and looking around. And I think there's so many talented professionals who have gotten blinders on and are so laser focused on their one niche.
00:55:26
Speaker
And I think the reason people have midlife crises is because they stopped learning, not just learning about what's going on in the world, but learning about who they are as people. And I would argue that I think the most exciting thing you can do as you go through life is to continually be open to discovering who you are as a person.
00:55:41
Speaker
And that may manifest in wanting to make a career change and having the humility to say, I'm going to have a beginner's mindset and stay intellectually curious and be totally okay with not being an expert. I actually think is the most important thing you can do for yourself. And that is the way you empower yourself to make a change and be totally fine with falling flat on your face and being a newbie and saying, I'm going to ask dumb questions. I think that there's nothing wrong with that. And I actually think if more people would open themselves up to that mindset of I'm not an expert and I don't have
00:56:10
Speaker
have to be, regardless of my age, regardless of my title or wealth or position or whatever that is, I think we'd be able to have a lot better conversations as a society. And I think it would empower a lot more people to pursue ultimately more fulfilling career paths.
00:56:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think that for me, one of the things that has been so powerful and, you know, just talking to a whole bunch of people is realizing how strong and how, again, powerful your mindset can be. And if you
00:56:42
Speaker
approach a situation. Like we spoke with this one trader who was blind and he said, you know, he, he found out at seven, he was going to go blind. And by the time he was in his teens, he thought his life was over. And someone said to him, your glass is not 20% empty. It's 80% fall. Your mind is so powerful, but it's focusing on the problem. Now, essentially like use your brain for the power of good focus on the solution to your problem. And so he did, and he figured out how to basically like, you know, he went to, he ultimately was in India, went to Wharton.
00:57:10
Speaker
got a MBA and then ended up as one of the top PMs at the top hedge funds like Barnard, like Citadel, Bali, Osney. And I think that for people these days who are entering the profession and maybe they didn't go to a target school, maybe they didn't go to, you know, they didn't have the right internship, whatever it is.
00:57:28
Speaker
If you try and you don't like let the little hiccups get in the way, like if you put your mind to it, you can succeed. And maybe it's not the traditional way in. Maybe it is, you know, you end up getting hired into some middle, you know, job that's middle office and then you translate, you know, you work your butt off and you get into front office. Like there are a lot of ways to get to where you're going or, you know,
00:57:50
Speaker
You decide you want to work at a private equity firm and you can't get there. So somehow you create a business, get sold to private. There are other ways to get to where you want to go. And I think having the determination and having the right mindset is everything. And one of the things that, again, these days, I do sometimes feel like people kind of see themselves as a victim. And I don't think that that helps.
00:58:10
Speaker
Cause then you're just sort of sitting there and you see all the negative instead of saying, let me take what I was given, what I was born with and use it for good. Like you can use your power for good. So anyway, that was my thing. Use your power for good and have the right mindset.
00:58:26
Speaker
I love it. I love everything you both just said. Absolutely. Go face your fears. I say it all the time. Face your fears because on the other side of that is freedom, you know, and you'll never know if you don't just try just put yourself out there, you know, so and sometimes your fears are really your biggest calling. At least that's kind of been a theme in my life. So I love that.
00:58:50
Speaker
So your fear is your biggest calling. That is cool. We'll cite you with that. If we ever use it, please do. Thank you so much. Ladies. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope our listeners learned a lot. I know I did. So be sure to give, uh, be sure to give these ladies a follow the wall street skinny. You won't be sorry. So entertaining. You're going to be learning so much and thank you everyone who has tuned into this episode and we will see you
00:59:19
Speaker
Next time live right here. Thank you so much, Brittany. Thank you. Congrats on all your success. Thank you. You too. All right, we'll see you soon. Bye. The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or any specific security.
00:59:41
Speaker
It is only intended to provide education about the financial industry. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor prior to investing. Any past performance discussed during this program is no guarantee to see the results. Any indices referenced for comparison are unmanaged and cannot be invested into directing. As always, please remember, investing involves risk and possible loss to tackle. Please seek advice from a licensed professional.