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Episode 360- Player Power - Is this the problem?
67 Plays4 days ago
Southampton – A hint at the clique style of the squad at the moment.... is this the problem we are having at the moment?
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Transcript
Introduction and Daily Topic
00:00:08
Zak
Thank you.
00:00:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Saints pod. My name is Greg and as always joined by my good friend and wonderful co-host, Zach. How doing mate, you alright?
00:00:25
Zak
Yeah, I'm good, mate. It's been it's been a long day for me and a super-energised one for you.
Listener's Question on Team Changes
00:00:30
Zak
So, yeah, we're we're here today to talk about player power, right?
00:00:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, that's it.
00:00:35
Zak
we We had somebody ask us about that question to do with Alfie's tweet, I think it was last week, where he was talking about who he would keep in the team.
00:00:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah.
00:00:43
Zak
One of those people who has now permanently left the QPR.
00:00:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:00:45
Zak
Thank you.
Player Power and Team Dynamics
00:00:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, well, look, we have we've alluded to it, and we talked a lot before about how something changed in the team, right? And it was between Tonda becoming the the main manager, not the interim anymore, like the actual head coach, sorry, and something changed. And we kind of talked about whether that was...
00:01:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
like someone else feeding him instructions that that sort of forced that change. And we talked about some of the other things it might be, but something that we didn't really talk about and, like you say, came out with Alfie's article since is this idea of player power and how there's this... sort of click of players in the team who who liked Russell Martin and liked his days off and the way that his style of football required less effort.
00:01:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
and And, you know, you can sort of read between the lines in that article to, you know, it doesn't take a huge amount of of thinking about it to work out, you know, the implications of who those players are.
Criticism and Commitment Issues
00:01:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
right And I mean, we knew it at the time when Russell Martin was the manager. There was very notably Russell Martin players, right? They were all the lads. And we commented on it a lot on the show, right?
00:02:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
They were the pally, pally, happy lad, lad, lad, lad players. So, I mean, look, let's just throw it straight out there. That's Harwood Bellis, Stevens, Flynn Downs, right?
00:02:23
Zak
Yep, arguably Brian Fraser, but I think he's just happy to restart his career because he seems to have been able to pivot no matter what he's been asked of.
00:02:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:33
Zak
Ryan Manning to an extent, but he always seems to play in that position.
00:02:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:02:37
Zak
However, he still very much plays and makes mistakes like he's in a Russell Martin team. That is what a lot of the criticisms are. People people really dislike his inability to defend as a left-back, and that's completely understandable, and how he often leaves the ball to have to be picked up by somebody else.
00:02:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:02:53
Zak
But it's fine because he whipped in a few goals the beginning of the season. Yeah, there's I see it.
00:02:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I guess to some degree, Ariba and Armstrong, I would also sort of put in that that camp of Russell Martin players, players who sort of were amongst Russell Martin's favourites.
00:03:12
Zak
I wouldn't put a rebo in that. I would put a rebo more of he he came he was more became more of a breakthrough during the second part of last season,
Management Changes and Impact
00:03:20
Zak
right? So the first half, when you had had Russell Martin in charge, you could see who it was.
00:03:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:03:25
Zak
And then you kind of,
00:03:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
He was our top goal scorer and our centre-back.
00:03:28
Zak
yeah and like Yeah, but he'd he...
00:03:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
but
00:03:29
Zak
said he from god
00:03:32
Zak
Sorry, just remembering how bad it was, right?
00:03:35
Zak
And then you you sort of had players that had either come back from loan or players had come back to fitness, and Juric came in, and obviously Juric had his is these very clear favourites, right? Paul Noachie, Sulemana, Joe Eribo, they were really, really good friends. They became quite close to these cliques, kind of... He rubbed up...
00:03:53
Zak
people who were big fans of Russell Martin the wrong way, right? And by Franz, I mean, you know, people that were...
00:03:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:04:00
Zak
It's in his clique, right? You can see that because Flynn Downs was already pushing for a move to Ipswich about a year ago this time. So he was trying to he was trying to make that move.
00:04:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:04:10
Zak
Fraser disappeared off the face of the earth. He basically couldn't get a game the matter what when Juric was asked in his very sort of nonchalantly answers. he was like, better players... That was a simple answer for that. So yeah, like I think that there is still all that sort of click of players.
00:04:25
Zak
There is also a really good article by The Ugly Inside, which if you're unaware of, it's like a Saints blog.
00:04:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
Thank
00:04:32
Zak
And I haven't reread it. I think I read it last week. but I haven't reread it specifically to ensure I don't accidentally just plagiarize all their
Player Dissatisfaction and Media
00:04:38
Zak
points. It's the same reason that whenever I watch TSP or Saints Network, it's after we finish recording our podcast.
00:04:44
Zak
Yeah. most of the time. To be fair, sometimes is I catch it live then and then decide to watch it. but It's a really, really good article, but one of the one other the things that that they bring up in that article, is the earlier rumours in the season about a player captain being really, really unhappy, right?
00:05:04
Zak
And we never actually got a resolution to that.
00:05:07
Zak
Like, there was lots of speculation that was Watford. There was lots of speculation across the board as to who it was. We kind of dismissed it as we did not think it would be us because of the relationship between Jack Stevens and Will still being quite...
00:05:19
Zak
evident, right? And the the the days that he was dropped, he was still there and sort of cheering the team on. But as things have been going on, like it does kind of feel a bit different.
Evolution of Player Power
00:05:29
Zak
And as modern football evolves in general, there does seem to be a bit more player power. And, it you know, there is a a systematic problem with clearing set pieces and it doesn't matter which coach you put in front of them.
00:05:43
Zak
you know i just wonder how fundamentally Russell Martin changed the culture of the football club. And I'm not saying in a sense of the tactics. And you know I think you and I have both talked about you know that sometimes that you can see them kind of default to passing around the back.
00:05:56
Zak
But somebody made a very good point to me at one point, which is you know not every single passing around the back can be blamed on Russell Martin.
00:05:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:06:02
Zak
and Sometimes that is just players playing in a way where they go, i don't think I fancy that. But from a cultural standpoint, you know, it it was when it was good, it was it it went well, right? We had, you know, probably the best atmosphere we've ever had was that but playoff game against West Brom. And and that was a Russell Martin side. Let's not forget it. It wasn't the best football to watch most of the time.
00:06:24
Zak
I don't remember the last time I remember having really good football to watch, to be honest. Right. probably like Pochettino era, maybe Cuban, which again, which is why we're so trapped in going and going back to those times.
00:06:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
Maybe.
00:06:37
Zak
But yeah, it's it that so something fundamentally, culturally had to change after we dropped out the Premier League.
Cultural Changes Under New Management
00:06:43
Zak
And they brought Russell Martin in and he definitely did that. And, you know, Alfie even questioned Tonda on the SCART issue. And he specifically and and weirdly dismissed that almost immediately. Like, I can't talk about the past.
00:06:55
Zak
I'm like, well, if you don't learn from the past, how can you plan for the future?
00:06:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:06:58
Zak
Because regardless of whether or not you think it's the past, there are a bunch of the players here, some of whom you would have referred to as Deadwood, that are still here and in those positions. And as the modern game evolves, player power is significantly more important.
00:07:11
Zak
Have a look at clubs elsewhere. Have a look at Mbappe. Have a look at, you know, I can list everything that everyone's going to know But I do wonder how much the players have behind the scenes and how much of an impact they have had. Because, yeah, you sure, you can blame Sports Republic. Yeah, sure, you can blame the managers.
00:07:31
Zak
But when you talked about it in that FA Cup game, Greg, when the spine of the team hasn't changed and the spine of the team are the ones that keep causing the problems...
00:07:39
Zak
What do you do? So yeah, I don't know.
00:07:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:07:42
Zak
there's There's lots of talking points on it. Greg, I know you have leads to the same.
00:07:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
plus
00:07:45
Zak
I've spoken a lot for for five minutes. You've not interrupted me because you're being nice, but please interject my friend. to
00:07:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
No, I mean, look, you're you're exactly right. It's just, it's fascinating to me, and i i can't help... i mean, I'm such a
Player Demands and Management Decisions
00:08:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
solution-orientated person anyway. that i like My mind immediately jumps to, well I mean, if that is the case, or i mean even the fact that it's been hinted at by Alfie House, and you know we sort of... You see it.
00:08:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
in in Like you say, we saw it with Flindau trying to force a move to Ipswich, and you know that was quite a public fallout as well.
00:08:23
Zak
Arma went on loan, remember, for West Brom.
00:08:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, what's... Yeah.
00:08:24
Zak
He didn't didn't do a lot, but he went on loan because he wasn't getting game time either.
00:08:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. So, like, what's the answer? Is the answer... give in to these players and get them to actually do something or just bin them all off and ship them out start again from scratch just and I don't know if there's a a right answer there is the problem don't know if you
00:08:49
Zak
One of my arguments against is, what do they want?
00:08:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:08:53
Zak
because Because the problem the problem you had is that like if if If what they actually want, which was
Uncertainty in Player Intentions
00:08:59
Zak
rumoured in the summer, right? It was rumoured even after Will Still went that the players would be open to a return of Russell Monk, right?
00:09:04
Zak
Which, okay.
00:09:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm-hmm.
00:09:06
Zak
Again, to be clear, these are rumours. We don't know if they've actually said that. but But one of my only counterpoints to this idea of player power is what do they actually want? Is it just that they want to be on the pitch ahead of other players?
00:09:18
Zak
Well, I guess that's kind of succeeded for some of them. But the captain thing currently is is kind of being rotated with another young centre-back, right? That's that's that's happening. You know, Downs get gets games, but honestly, it looks like he's had more battles against his own fitness.
00:09:35
Zak
Armour's getting the most games because, you know, I don't know if he still is, but was the top scorer in the championship, so you're not going to drop him. Manning, well, for a long time, Wellington had an injury.
00:09:45
Zak
Wellington went out for a while.
00:09:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm.
00:09:47
Zak
Then he had the red card incident and has slowly been worked back in and started the other day in the FA Cup. So, okay, what what do they actually want? This is the only argument that I have against it, which is like, what would be the objective of all of these players in the culture? Is it, is it as you said, to just have to do less?
00:10:06
Zak
they Do you think people are content with winning? Like not winning? I just don't see that being the case.
00:10:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm.
00:10:11
Zak
Like some of them have got moved and moved on. And as we discussed yesterday, like potentially some them want to better things. I saw an argument when baz obviously now confirmed to go to Stoke.
00:10:21
Zak
It's like, is he going to become suddenly amazing? and like the rest of the players that leave us.
00:10:25
Zak
So I'm like, bar our lady Bednarek, we discussed a string of players yesterday that left us that have not gone on to more illustrious things. They might have gone to Champions League side for the time being.
00:10:36
Zak
And then, you know, again, Solomana, I spoke to you yesterday. I had a look, I decided to sort a look at his game stats, right? And he's he's played six minutes in in the last three games.
00:10:46
Zak
So he's on his sub for two of those games. And then he came on as a sub for six minutes.
00:10:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:10:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I don't know, mate.
00:10:52
Zak
It's weird, isn't it?
00:10:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
I
00:10:54
Zak
What's the argument? What are they trying to get?
00:10:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
don't know, mate.
00:10:57
Zak
More money? They already have the contract.
00:11:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
More days off. I don't know. I don't know the answer. I mean, look. I don't know what the answer is. I don't know if we're going to be able to solve it this
Solutions for Player Power Issues
00:11:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
window. i think that if you if you factor it into to the team as a whole, though, and who we presume, right, or or even the as assume, right, like we we know we're taking our best guess based off of what we see out of the club, right? you know We don't go to Staplewood. We don't really know what's what. But what we see and what we get from the club and what we read from the reporters,
00:11:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
and And, you know, what what's presented to us, we can deduce that. So what? We need a centre-back, probably, now, if that's the case. Because, you know, it's it's one or two of them. And if it's case of break-up the group... I mean, I'm finding it really hard...
00:11:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Zach, to just not fully put the heater on Jack Stevens here, right? Like, he's he's the person who's been captain throughout, and we keep hearing about how, you know, great of a leader he is, but we also, through this entire time, have really lacked...
00:12:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
leadership and draw. And if his name is in this, this list of the click who, uh, or it was better when we had different days off under Russell Martin. Like, is it really just as simple as just put someone else's club captain and try and positively affect the culture that way?
00:12:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, is that really as, does it, is it really going to be just as simple as that? Because it kind of feels like if nothing else, that's the first step, right? Of sort of reading ourselves of the shackles of, of whatever it is that's the sort of holding this down from the past.
00:12:53
Zak
I think that's probably what you're going to see potentially with
Predictions for Cultural Reset
00:12:55
Zak
this season, though. Like, I i am in a
00:13:00
Zak
a... I'm far more cynical than you, but it's it's one of those things where weve we've we've kind of talked about the idea of promotion. Looking at where we are in the in the table, looking at we where we are in the seats, and I don't realistically think it's a possibility.
00:13:11
Zak
I think there'll be players that want to move on. There'll be players that have decided that that's kind of it for their time at Southampton. And then we will end up with a a full cultural reset because the players that have been here the longest will go.
00:13:22
Zak
And then when that doesn't solve the problem, then it will be a bigger issue for Sports Republic because they will then go, okay well, it's us. Because then you run out of people to blame, right? If every single player is left and every single manager is left and you've replaced all of them, it's then a problem.
00:13:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mmm.
00:13:38
Zak
But i I don't know if it's as simple as just removing the club captain because I don't know if they're thinking they have the foresight for
Journalistic Balance and Player Retention
00:13:44
Zak
that. Simply because of like, you look at this Romelu transfer that seems to be at this rate just a sentimental transfer.
00:13:51
Zak
And, you know, as somebody, I'm sure he won't disclose how he came to his conclusions because, you know, he's a journalist.
00:13:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mmm.
00:14:00
Zak
And when people ask him to be to be more harsh than he usually is, people need to remember that you need to be able to get access. You need to be able to have conversations.
00:14:10
Zak
If you consistently, you know, burn all of the bridges you have around you by by being really, really harsh, it's it's a hard game being like being a journalist, right?
00:14:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
You don't have to look too far into our past as a club to see that either, right? Like under Cortese, was it?
00:14:29
Zak
Mm-hmm.
00:14:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
The... you know some of the the press, or in fact a whole load of the press and the Echo in full, got completely banned.
00:14:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:14:39
Zak
Yeah, you you see it in Blackburn now as well.
00:14:41
Zak
They had their whole thing where they basically just stopped their local journalists because they were criticizing them too much. So he's going have to step between the lines.
00:14:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
yes
00:14:48
Zak
So with that caveat, reading at the players that he said that we should keep is very, very interesting. And he is, I think, being slightly more expressive with with his opinions more recently. And I think probably because it's equally as being as frustrated as us, regardless of whether or not people believe he actually supports the team because of where he's from, like...
00:15:06
Zak
I feel like when you so when you spend this much time paying attention to it and
Fan Expectations and Club History
00:15:10
Zak
reporting on it, like i don't think I think it's a moot point, personally.
00:15:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. 100%,
00:15:14
Zak
But the list of players that he has is is very interesting because, again, we we probably kind of agree we do need a cultural reset.
00:15:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
right? Yeah. right look
00:15:22
Zak
I just don't think that you're going to see it this season. I don't think you'll see Jack Stephens being... or be in slacked off Also, like the weird thing about that is they gave him another contract recently, right? So potentially you've got Fraser going at the end of the season. and I don't know whether Armour would want to stay, to be perfectly honest. I guess we'll see what what happens when his contract comes to an end.
00:15:43
Zak
They don't seem to have any qualms with left-back as a position, so I don't think we'll see Manning go anytime soon.
00:15:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm.
00:15:50
Zak
Downs, I think, hasn't expressed any interest to go anymore since the whole Ipswich incident, but shows you, you know, there's a bit of flakiness there, but then he's been ill. Like, we don't know who they are as human individuals. And and the other, like...
00:16:05
Zak
And I know, again, I'm flicking back and forth because I have lots of thoughts about it and not all of them make sense together. i Equally, when I ask, you know, when it comes to power, what they actually want out of it, the the other argument is like, how often do people go into their workplace and actually thinking about that?
00:16:22
Zak
Like, who who is this cold and calculating about the way they do things?
00:16:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:16:27
Zak
Do do you genuinely think that they have, like, a book club or, like, they meet up, like, once a week for beers and they sit there and be like, right, lads, is what we're going to do this week to try and make sure this works? Obviously, there's, like, subtler social engineering things that can happen, for sure, but...
00:16:42
Zak
I also, yeah, they might just be like, yeah, i really like that time under Russell Martin. I miss it. Why? Well, we were winning and winning lots of, get winning slash drawing lots of games. It was real big buzz of positivity.
00:16:53
Zak
He was a real likeable, charismatic guy because, you know, somebody called me the other day on one of our one of our YouTube episodes, Greg, like...
Managerial Impact on Morale
00:17:02
Zak
Could the problem be the fact that like you seem to hire managers with the charisma of like a wet blanket or whatever?
00:17:08
Zak
That's true, the last couple of, you know, who still one of the first criticisms they had was that loud enough.
00:17:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:17:14
Zak
And ultimately, whether rightly or wrongly, they...
00:17:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. And you see the same the same with Juric, right? And the same, you know, to some degree with Tonda.
00:17:18
Zak
Yep.
00:17:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, he's got this sort of a strange charisma about him that's...
00:17:27
Zak
Yep.
00:17:29
Zak
kind of feels a bit like you don't know what he's going to do next.
00:17:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
I slightly off-putting, but yeah.
00:17:33
Zak
Yeah. Whereas Jorich had like the one-word answers, but you know for a fact that he would go into the into the dressing room and give him a hairdryer treatment, which I think was just well too much of a swap for them from like Russell Martin who, you know,
00:17:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
But it's not...
00:17:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:17:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:17:47
Zak
And I think that maybe maybe there's there's probably a lot of guilt with that. Like, they don't want it they want to go down. They don't want to be that team. And they're going to have to live with it like, whether they like it or not. And for some people, they can live with it and move on to better things.
00:18:01
Zak
And I'd say that Bednarek, like, you know, it's been widely reported that he's won, like, what, four in a row for, like, best defender in the Portuguese league or something, four weeks in a row.
00:18:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm.
00:18:10
Zak
You know, rightly or wrongly, some people go on to greater things, but if not, they're the ones that are still here. And because of the way that they think that things should be, we don't have a manager.
00:18:21
Zak
we we have a head coach, which is why I kept banging on about the Man U comparison so much, because
Power Dynamics in Football Clubs
00:18:26
Zak
like, who he is actually in control?
00:18:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm.
00:18:28
Zak
I don't know if the players have as much power that they think that we do. I do know that they are in control of their performances, though.
00:18:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
by
00:18:36
Zak
And some of the people that have been criticized heavily for their performances do make up that cohort.
00:18:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, 100%.
00:18:42
Zak
So it could just be we're putting two and two together.
00:18:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. I mean, look, whether it's like a deliberate... Like you say, it's really unlikely to me that it's like a deliberate like, oh, we're going to be rubbish today because we want more days off.
00:18:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
But like, it's it's the sort of thing that it it can affect your mood, which can affect the mood of people around you, which which like I say, it effectively comes down to the the culture and the influence. and And maybe, I mean, you said that bringing Romeo in really was like a sentimental signing, but really maybe like...
00:19:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
that mentality that runs through the team, it and maybe that's why Ramea was bought in because no one's ever described Ramea as soft, right? Like, that's not not in his repertoire.
00:19:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
And so maybe they were hoping that having him just around the locker room, even if he wasn't going to get a lot of minutes in, would sort of instill this fortitude into some of the other players who were...
00:19:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
you know, clearly struggling with it. and you know, like I say, be that as like social osmosis or, or because they miss the better times or, or because they hurt him, like whatever it is, like, it's just, just needs to get over it and play
Cultural Shifts and Performance
00:20:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
better.
00:20:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like it's hard, isn't it?
00:20:05
Zak
It is difficult.
00:20:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's hard to put it into context.
00:20:08
Zak
sorry so and In our in our our job, know we've gone through so much cultural change and shifts. This is the work we do outside this podcast.
00:20:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
so
00:20:19
Zak
you know as As most people know, me and Greg work together. And and like we could sit and talk about the fundamentals and the cultures and and how, you know, some days it just kind of almost feels like the the air itself can can suck out of you. But then there other times where everything's going really, really great and you go in and and everyone's buzzing and...
00:20:40
Zak
It's got, obviously, with with football, those emotions are so up and down all the time. And when you have something like what happened last year, I just think it's really, really hard to get out of you.
00:20:51
Zak
And we can say, oh, you'll pay thousands pounds to get on with it And when I'm angry and annoyed and we've lost, yeah, I'll probably say those things. When I'm cold and hard and logical, like the way that I'm trying to think a little bit today, it's like I just don't think it's as deep as we
Fan Perceptions of Crisis
00:21:04
Zak
think it is.
00:21:04
Zak
And I don't think it's as simple as just pay better.
00:21:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
it's like a It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy as well, right? like You try and get out of the mindset of of this, of you know of whatever mindset it is that's causing these these sort of poor performances or this falling short of of whatever, right?
00:21:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
falling short of their expectations or of our expectations or how however you want to put it and then you you try and get away from it and actually you know like you say it's so up and down in football anyway because of the emotions of the game but also it's also publicly visible like like the fact that even the fact we're here you know sitting and having this conversation yeah
00:21:38
Zak
Yeah, like, imagine us... Imagine us having a late thing. A late project, right? Imagine we have a late project and and it results in some some issues. And then you've got two two guys a decade older than you chatting about it for 30 minutes where your thought process around it, like sometimes maybe we just overthink it all. But I guess one of the questions I do want to ask off the back of this player prop part like pay a power problem, Greg, is like, obviously there seems to be the sentiment that we're, are we in a crisis?
00:22:10
Zak
Because like that must feed into the players. It does feel like the way we're acting as a fan base is that we are in some sort of mass crisis. Yet whenever we chat, we're like, wouldn't be that bothered if we stay in the championship another year.
00:22:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
I don't think so. i think that perhaps some Saints fans' opinions vary from that. I think that...
00:22:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
It depends on your base perspective, right? Because for some fans, their expectation of us comes from that period of time where we were solidly a Premier League team. and can you know we We got European spaces and and you know went and beat Inter Milan at the San Siro. And like my memory of Saints...
00:23:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
comes from, like, further back from that, and then, you know, the those hard times, like, before Gao, and before Lieber, right, like, struggling way down in League 2, and back up to, up to the Championship, you know, League 1, and all of that, it's just...
00:23:12
Zak
Mm-hmm.
00:23:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, like, I don't think, from my base perspective of what i expect from the club, this is a crisis. But I can see why fans would feel that way. if If we had the level of football we've had, this is where it's hard to separate, right? if we have the this you know the football trajectory we've had and were also owned by absolute madmen who were financially tearing the club apart,
00:23:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
that's a crisis. If we were... If I had even the slightest doubt that relegation was a possibility this season,
Ownership's Role in Management
00:24:07
Zak
And
00:24:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
right?
00:24:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, if there was even a tiny little piece of me that thought it was a viable outcome, I would argue that would construe a crisis.
00:24:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
But really, I just think... we we're just languishing in mid-table, which is, frankly, based off of last season, just what I expected.
00:24:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:24:31
Zak
we're We're not as good as we think we are, which comes back to a point I've tried to make all season and we've had a nice little spell and that spell has come to an end.
00:24:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:24:41
Zak
yeah What you say is fascinating though, because that win against Inter Milan, Greg, was almost a decade ago at this point, it's November 2016.
00:24:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:24:48
Zak
And if you think about sort of, you know, are the fan base that sort aged 18 to 25 now, which I think will probably make a last vast majority of of the people that are making a lot of voice on social media,
00:25:00
Zak
you know, if they were, they're right they like 19 now, they'd have been nine then. That's when they would have seen the, that you're right, they'd have grown up with Peak. They wouldn't have grown up with us where it's like, you know, there are charts about a certain Mr.
00:25:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:25:13
Zak
Rupert Lowe, which I cannot even begin to describe on air because of how extreme they were.
00:25:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, exactly. i like... like
00:25:19
Zak
so
00:25:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, you know, like I remember far back enough as growing up as Saints, it's like when I grew up as a Saints fan, as a young boy, like Saints were never a team that was supposed to be doing well in the Premier League. Saints were a team that narrowly avoided relegation every single year, right? Like that was it until that one year that we didn't, and then it all got a lot worse.
00:25:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I think it depends on...
00:25:43
Zak
Yeah.
00:25:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
on what your base of expectation for the team is. Because, you know, from for as long as I can remember, Saints barely staying up is just the expectation.
00:25:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, i don't know. But like I say, that like that that's not to say that it's it's invalid for people to feel that way.
00:26:00
Zak
lots of yeah
00:26:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
And like I say, it's hard because... because I see, we you know, I spend so much time thinking and talking about the club and the football that it's it's hard to separate that because you look at other clubs with owners and, you know...
00:26:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
our owners are not the best owners in the world and you can openly see that, but they didn't come in and sack our tea lady of 80 years and our club historian and cause ranks an upset. Like they've, they've tried to make the club financially sustainable and,
00:26:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
it you know, tries to go about that in in almost the right way most of the time, right? Like, sure, they have questionable decisions, but also it's it's business. Nobody has, like, the full philanthropy of the world at their hands when they're making business decisions. it's It's hard, isn't it?
00:26:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
a Like, we're not in the position of Sheffield Wednesday, so can you really call it a crisis? But but also, it's not where we want to be, is it?
00:27:06
Zak
Some people, it would be considered to be one.
00:27:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
So... Yeah.
00:27:09
Zak
Yeah, I think the thing is, is that the reason that it's such a point of contention is because if people feel like we're in crisis, which a lot of people do, they are looking at the various different ways and places to blame, right?
00:27:22
Zak
And there will be people that point owners at the ownership.
00:27:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:27:25
Zak
It's hard to just point at the manager because most of the managers have barely been here for five minutes anymore. And clearly, they're not the ones setting things up behind the scenes.
00:27:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:27:34
Zak
you could You could point to Spores, but realistically, like looking at the business that he's done and what he's tried to set up, it's probably made more sense than not. thus far, like, okay, Damien Downs, not a very good decision.
00:27:47
Zak
Leaving a goalkeeper until this window, not a very good decision.
00:27:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
that But there was...
00:27:50
Zak
Neosienta, very good decision.
00:27:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's what I mean.
00:27:52
Zak
No.
00:27:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
like the hit You can't expect a 100% hit rate and and you can see what they were going for
Debating Player Power as Issue
00:27:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
with downs. And I just think that they you you know they got it wrong. they In my opinion, they went for a profile of player and what they got was not what they expected from the profile of the player because what they wanted was another Ross Stewart and what they got was another Cameron Archer, just slightly taller.
00:28:15
Zak
a
00:28:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, it's...
00:28:17
Zak
Do you... Here's So do you think there's actually a problem with player power at all? Or do you just think that people are so disgruntled and frustrated, we are basically pointing fingers at anything to be cross about?
00:28:34
Zak
but Because that's that's that could it could it could be a bit of both.
00:28:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Maybe. Yeah.
00:28:38
Zak
Like, I kind of feel like there are definitely...
00:28:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Uh, I, you know, I, I think that, I think that there are problems at the club because, because if there weren't, we would be, we should, you know, on paper be storming the league realistically.
00:28:45
Zak
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:28:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I don't know where that blame lies. I don't know if it's the players, you know, we talked to length about whether it's in the back room or what.
Team Potential and Performance Frustrations
00:29:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
and you know, the real answer is probably a little bit of all of those things, for sure.
00:29:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Are we a million miles away from it? I mean, that's probably the most frustrating part, right? Because no, I think that we're probably two or three solid signings away from a decent squad that look could perform every week, right? And and you know if it comes down to turfing turfing people out purely on mentality despite you know ability on paper, maybe that's where it comes to and you've got to make those tough decisions. But...
00:29:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
this Yeah, I don't know. it it's The problem is we have shown we showed in that like hot streak right how capable of a team we are and to take it back to the the age-old adage that is probably the tagline of this show over the last 360 episodes. act It was just enough hope to to drag us along and kill us all over again.
Final Reflections on Player Power
00:30:06
Zak
Oh, you're right. that's That's why I got so cross after that Middlesbrough game and why I'm still cross it.
00:30:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:12
Zak
I'm still apprehensive going into another game this weekend, which sure will be exciting nonetheless.
00:30:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:18
Zak
But yeah, I think that there's lots of... thoughts and opinions that we have clearly shared on player power, but also, again, it all comes down to the structure of the club and of what's going on. And, you know, is is the sickness something that's so deep that it's making everyone unwell or is it actually just significantly more surface than we let that we think?
00:30:40
Zak
And we are just so used and so prepared for everything to be so awful all of the time. We just jump to the fact that it is when actually it's not as bad, right?
00:30:50
Zak
Especially where you say, like, you think we're a couple signings off.
00:30:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:53
Zak
And I think that's fascinating because there are lots of people that think that we need to replace the entirety of the squad, bar the least signing we've made.
00:31:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. I don't think that's true.
00:31:02
Zak
Yeah.
00:31:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
i think that i think that there are you know I think that there are areas we could solidify immediately, like a tall defender who can clear a corner and play in a back four. Yeah.
00:31:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that almost immediately shapes up the rest of the team in a way that can play in such a way that they've shown they are able and capable to do. And push them to do that every week instead of just only under an interim manager. don't know. I don't know what the problem is. But hopefully we'll just start winning games that we don't have to talk about anymore.
00:31:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's what I want.
00:31:39
Zak
Yeah, that was a really nice period of time where we got to forget about all of the ridiculously like crazy conspiracy theories and this idea that when you say all we need is a tall centre-back to play a back four, I think, as Tonda pointed out, it actually doesn't matter what formation we play.
00:31:55
Zak
We just need to play better, apparently.
00:31:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, sure.
00:31:57
Zak
so it And arguably, he's not really that wrong.
00:32:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
If we could, but imagine if, imagine if we could play a better formation and play better of what we could achieve, right?
00:32:01
Zak
If we just...
00:32:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Just, yeah.
00:32:08
Zak
Wow, it's far us that's that's far too hypothetical for us.
00:32:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's it.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:32:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
But look, mate, that's, uh, that's just about all we've got time for today. I told you this would be an easy one.
00:32:13
Zak
Man.
00:32:18
Zak
Yeah, just a little bit.
00:32:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Uh,
00:32:19
Zak
but so
00:32:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
Look, who who says podcasting is difficult? Just come on and talk about something that you care about for an extended period of time. As always, thank you so much, Zach, for joining me.
00:32:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
And thank you, everyone, for listening. Let us know on the socials, in the comments. What do you think? Where where are the problems? Is it a crisis? Am i just too laid back to to see the the worrying prospects in front of me?
00:32:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
Let us know. We're on all the socials.
00:32:49
Zak
Bye.
00:32:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
and Love hearing from you. Daily Saints pod on everywhere. X, Blue Sky, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok. You name it, we're on it. Hit us up. We love hearing from you.
00:33:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
We will be back tomorrow to talk more about more Saints stuff, as always. But until then, have a great day everyone, and we'll see you then.