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Atalanta Penalty Scandal: The Worst Decision In Champions League History? (Clip from Ep. 494)
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After Club Brugge 2-1 Atalanta following a scandalous penalty decision by referee Halil Umut Meler at the death of the Champions League first leg playoff, Nima Tavallaey and Carlo Garganese try to make sense of what could be the worst refereeing decision in the UCL since VAR was introduced.
This is a clip from the weekly Thursday episode of the Italian Football Podcast.
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Transcript
Introduction to Italian Football
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian football podcast.
Controversial Penalty Incident
00:00:05
Speaker
So there's there's only one place to start, Club Bruges versus Atalanta, Club Bruges 1-2-1, but there's only one one incident really worth talking about and that is the ah scandal ah deep into injury time. The scores are 1-1 and um Club Bruges get given a penalty after Hien grazes, can we call it grazes at best, the striker's nose with his with his with his arm ah while the ball was under his control, while the two players are going for the ball and Hien is fending off Nilsson, the giant striker.
00:00:50
Speaker
and the striker goes down. Incredibly, the referee gives a penalty to to to Club Bruges who score and win 2-1.
Referee and VAR Judgment Questions
00:01:01
Speaker
This is one of the worst refereeing decisions. i would I would say maybe it's the worst refereeing decision in the VAR era um in the Champions League that that I've seen, like for a penalty, for the for the importance of of the of the of the of of the penalty decision as well.
00:01:20
Speaker
um The assistant referee who is right there, like meters away with a perfect view of the incident doesn't give the penalty. um The referee who's way behind play and in a bad position and and is blinded, can't even see the incident clearly, gives the penalty.
00:01:37
Speaker
and The VAR checks it, the VAR team in the booth checks it, and somehow they uphold the incident.
Incompetence or Bias in Decisions
00:01:45
Speaker
And that's a separate discussion, the VAR, which we'll come to. um But first of all, I just want to focus on the the first decision and and the referee. And for me, I really, really want to believe. I mean, Charles de Kettler said at the end of the game,
00:02:03
Speaker
um and he's a club brooch through and through by the way so he's being nice he said a hundred referees if you asked a hundred referees if this was a penalty a hundred or a hundred people if this was a penalty a hundred would say it's not a penalty um and I really, really never want to believe that this is just incompetence. And I know maybe this is the Italian way of thinking of crying conspiracy, but I just cannot. I'm sorry. Maybe it's just me, but I just cannot believe that this is incompetence. I
Transparency and Criticism of VAR
00:02:34
Speaker
can't. I can't believe a referee would give this decision. It just it just seems impossible to me that this can be in competence. When I look into the referee's history,
00:02:42
Speaker
how he's viewed in Turkey, the big scandal in Turkey when a club official came onto the pitch and punched him, and and how shady he's considered in Turkey. And when I just look at this incident and think, can this just be a mistake? Can this just be a terrible, terrible mistake? And I look at the incident and I think, how can, this just is not, it's just not possible that a referee can can make a mistake like this. I i want to believe it's in competency, but how can you give a penalty like this?
00:03:08
Speaker
I think we should never underestimate the incompetence of anyone, you know, or the famous George Carlin quote, think of how stupid the average person is. Now, remember, half of them are dumber than that. um So I absolutely think this is incompetency and I'm not surprised by it. I think incompetency is is a bottomless pit, unfortunately. um There's no ground floor.
00:03:34
Speaker
I, my reaction to this was, i I still can't believe it. I looked at it and I and i didn't understand. and And I was a bit shocked in the sense that I didn't understand what was going on. Like that's how, that was my reaction. I genuinely didn't understand. I was sitting there going, huh? Like I'm still a bit, I'm still a bit, huh? Like I don't understand how you give Like the fact that Isakien's arm is up there, hand is up there, there's no doubt about that, we can see that. And it has no business being there, you should be pushing away the player, that's fine. But for for for that to cross over a threshold into a penalty is just...
00:04:24
Speaker
i i'm i'm um so I'm a little bit stunned. I really don't know what to say. I don't understand what I've watched and I've watched it about a hundred times since then. I don't get it. I really don't get it. First I thought maybe I was speculating and so I talked to a couple of referees but mainly one as a FIFA referee and told me, I asked lots of questions because I was like, maybe they didn't have enough angles. Maybe maybe the anchors, we didn't see it from the front, did we?
UEFA's Responsibility and Fan Impact
00:04:50
Speaker
We saw it from the back. And and the response I got was, that no, no, you a UEFA competition, a requirement, has to have 36 cameras, one fixed on the goal line on both sides. They definitely have the footage. Sometimes they don't show it on on TV.
00:05:03
Speaker
which is, okay, great. So we know that the VAR at least had it. But then brings me to another question, which i don't which I still don't understand, is why don't they share those images with the people watching? That would just make it more understandable. Because from the angle that we're all seeing, it's it's not it's not even a file. It's not not not that it's not a file, if anything, it's it should be a free kick for Atalanta for simulation.
00:05:32
Speaker
Nilsen should be booked for simulation based on the images I see. That's how much of an egregious decision it is. And I i don't understand it. I genuinely don't get it. Then when it comes to the VAR, we don't know if they recommended an on-field review and the referee said he didn't want to because the referee has that power. But they did check it. They absolutely check it. Whether or not they upholdll upheld it or not.
00:06:01
Speaker
I'm waiting for UEFA to release some sort of statement as to what the procedure was here, what actually happened, because according to, as again, people I've spoken to, that is that is clear and obvious error. Because even if the hand hit his face, is it enough to warrant a foul? Is it enough to warrant a penalty? And the response has been overwhelmingly hell no. It's not enough.
00:06:30
Speaker
and Well initially with regards to the VAR, initially we were we we we were kind of told and this is this is kind of what we thought before you spoke to your FIFA referee who then said that that wasn't that that wasn't true in this incident which was and this is where the VAR system is clearly flawed is that we understood it and this has definitely been the case for many incidents is that VAR couldn't intervene because they can only intervene where there's a clear and obvious error. And and the definition of clear and obvious error in in most cases like this is that if there is some contact, yeah no matter how minimal that contact is, the VAR procedure is that it cannot be overturned. It can only be overturned if the if on review they see that there was no contact at all. So that means that Hien could have gone out into his wife's cleaning cupboard, got a feather duster,
00:07:23
Speaker
and literally literally tickled Nielsen with the feather duster on is any part of his body, and the VAR team can't overturn that. No, they can. because they Absolutely can. Because there's no concept. I mean, that's what we understood. Yeah, it was, yeah. And I think that's been a kind of a myth for a number of years. because we we I remember us, we've explained certain instances on this show and said, well, the the procedure is even though, you know, but you've spoken to the referee and says that's not true. Is that right? Yeah, basically saying that they're they they They leave themselves lots of wiggle room in the sense that they want for it to fall under the remit of clear and obvious error. There has to be, you know, you look at the whole situation and is it enough on the contact? Like is it does the contact warrant a foul? And if it doesn't, then it can fall with that. That's the way I've understood it now.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah. um because that I mean, that makes it even more damning then, because that that means it's not just the referee that's... Well, we don't know that, because again, we don't have the VAR communication. They could have recommended an on-field review and the referee, but the referee has the right to say, I don't know, I'm happy with my decision. Yeah. So we don't know that, but but but but for me... The kettleists called that said the referee was extremely arrogant. They asked him, what was the rep was the penalty for? He wouldn't even answer them.
00:08:44
Speaker
So that's what we know from the from what the Atalanta players have said of the incident. But for me, there needs to be a proper investigat there needs to be an investigation into this. There needs to be full transparency. UEFA needs to explain what happened. There needs to be a py will they have to be a public apology from UEFA.
00:09:02
Speaker
not that it would do much now. I mean, Atalanta have lost the game and it could be it could be damn it could be could cost them qualification, but there needs to be a public apology. And and this referee, Halil Umet Mela, this Turkish referee, needs to be banned from, for he should never referee again, I mean I would even go further, would you know me, I would ban him from football altogether, but he should be he shouldn't be allowed to referee a Champions League game ever again. Whether it's incompeency pump incompetency as you say it is, or whether it's whether there's something darker behind it. um He shouldn't be allowed to referee again, because either way, and you can't have referees that make these decisions like this. This is not this is not acceptable at so ah any level. This isn't acceptable at Sunday League level, let alone at Champions League, in the playoffs, in injury time, in a game, which could decide, in a moment, it could decide qualification. ah You cannot make decisions like this. It's it's it's is disgraceful.
00:09:57
Speaker
It's disgraceful. And, you know, i't I don't want to go into the whole anti Italian discrimination thing. But this this happens. The list is endless in recent years of these kind of shocking decisions. No, I've never seen this. this this is it But this takes the biscuit. This is on a week when and I know we'll come on to you, Vince. This is on this is in a week where PSV scored a goal um where which was a handball. There was a handball in the build up to the PSV goals. We've had two to two goals that have could been scored this this week, which which shouldn't have been goals.
00:10:27
Speaker
you know, and and I will come on to that, because again, you spoke to your referee about the PSV goals, we we'll come on to that after, I don't want to, you know, cloud this discussion where we focus and that's an answer. But, but you know, it just seems to be that this happens all the time. And, and, um you know, this referee, he reminded me the way that he made that decision,
00:10:47
Speaker
and the way that he stood by it and the arrogance and the way that he brushed off the complaints of the Atalanta players. I don't know how many of them he booked for complaining after after the penalty. He reminded me of Byron Moreno. He had those eyes, those eyes, those those menacing eyes of... Menacing eyes!
00:11:07
Speaker
He had those menacing eyes, that that demeanor of of someone that was that that so was someone that was just, you know, I've effed you and don't even try and question me. like that that was that was that was I mean, it was just, yeah, the arrogance. But I mean, it's just it's just not acceptable. And, and and you know, Atalanta might go out because of this now. It's it's just not fair. um And other than that, I mean, it just dropped the fans. I mean, I'll be honest with you, this was the early game last night.
00:11:35
Speaker
I didn't even feel like watching the Milan game after that. you know Obviously, you know I had to watch it because know we're doing this show. and I didn't feel like it. I was watching that Milan game just like a zombie and I just my just overall feeling. I know a lot had a lot of people respond to me last night with saying the same thing. A lot of people were just like,
00:11:51
Speaker
What's the point? That's how I felt. I just felt so deflated and I just thought, you know what is the point of even of even watching football when you see a decision
Improving Rules and Referee Understanding
00:12:00
Speaker
like this? It's just this should not happen in 2025. This is the kind of incident that maybe you expected you know far in the past when there's no VAR. And b a are supposed to the VAR is supposed to eliminate these kinds of of incidents. you know The referee can make a mistake. The referee can be bought.
00:12:19
Speaker
But if the referee is bought and you've got a VAR team, well, they need to buy the VAR team as well because they're going to overall destroy the images as well. yeah it's sort of what I mean, so i mean i think I just want to make a point before we move on. I just do want to make a point about the VAR system in general because it it has been, you know,
00:12:36
Speaker
this week, has has there's been a lot on it, but I do feel like the VAR system is flawed. I know we discussed this after the Tomori incident last week. The VAR system is definitely flawed. ah this This clear and obvious, although I know we're not certain if that was the case here with this one, but this clear and obvious, I'm sorry, but they there needs to be, you know, the review by the VAR team needs to be simple. Is it a penalty or not ah or is it not a penalty? when it' like this, you can't go down to technicalities as a reason for not then overturning a decision. This is like de Kettler said, you ask 100 people and the 100 people will tell you this is this is not a penalty. It's just it's that much of a joke. You can't then decide not to overturn it because either
00:13:24
Speaker
It doesn't, you know, because there's contact and that... go if the referee or the referee yeah Or if the referee arbitrarily on his own decides to say, no, I'm not overturning it. That system is flawed because because the the error remains. um That's number one. And number two is a point that that Fabio Capello made a couple of days ago, where he said that ex-players should be in the VAR booth.
00:13:50
Speaker
no i mean i I mean, I don't know whether that's possible. I don't know whether the ex-players will want to do it. They are part of IFAB already ex-players. Well, I don't know if they'd want to do it because they're already you know well off. They don't need to work anymore. I don't know whether they want to stress themselves to be to work in VAR unless they pay them. I mean, I think that referees and officials should be paid better. There's enough money in football. There's so much money in football.
00:14:18
Speaker
that you pay them better, you get, you get, you know, you you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, you know, maybe they need you need to but they need to be paid better. Maybe these people are not paid as well. So that the recruitment, I don't know. But what? what point i want to make for your league i Quite a bit. And I wouldn't hire them. I'd rather hire monkeys than most of them, to be honest with you. Well, listen, and the point I want to make is this, Nima, that when when when a when a refer i'm not saying when i don't know but When a referee or an assistant or someone in the VAR booth has never played football before, you don't understand certain dynamics in football. Why certain things happen? Why certain natural movements happen? Like the Hien incident, for example,
00:14:59
Speaker
okay you can maybe argue that his hand was a little bit higher than it should be but if you've played football you understand that in that kind of scenario you naturally when you're ahead of the other player and you're fending him off you naturally will put your arm across now occasionally that arm might come a little bit higher it depends on the height of the player. Okay, this guy was a giant, it's going to be that high. But you know, but but but yeah that's a natural, natural movement. You know, it's the same as I think I made an argument a few weeks ago about a penalty that Roma got against. I can't remember who it was. It's a i yeah dinesz with there' two-player tussling for the ball. And that is a natural movement that that he did. It got given a penalty. And I think legally you explained that probably yeah based on the law, it probably was a penalty.
00:15:43
Speaker
But again, you know so i mean that's down to the law, but I'm just i'm just saying that like when you've played football, it doesn't necessarily have to be professional, you know or even necessarily same. revenge When you've played football at you know a reasonable level and regularly, you understand that these are certain movements. If you've never played football again, which a lot of referees haven't at all,
00:16:05
Speaker
then you don't understand why so it's not really down to that it's also what they're told like this is a thing if you download ifab apps and you leave the read the really read the laws of the game that's one thing then referee people who train referees get their instructions from ifab and tell them this is how we want you to interpret this law i understand that i agree to the referees and that's they have to follow that of course they followed the laws but no i'm just saying i'm just saying that like a lot of that is also down to interpretation and communication that's what i'm saying the interpretation that comes from playing the game you can't interpret yeah but ifeb's interpretation is because is is from people who are former players former coaches like ifeb yes but the referee himself or the assistants the var team have to then interpret communication never No, written incidents are never black and white. There's always going to be a little bit of interpretation course you know as well. um and And if you've never played the game, you you can't understand why these things happen. You can't just train someone so to understand it. You can't. You have to have played the game. you and then you When you've repetitively had these incidents during matches you play, you will understand why things happen because you'll naturally do them.
00:17:13
Speaker
you know without even thinking you'll do certain things and then occasionally you might be unlucky to handle a ball because you put your arm across you know like for example like the gattie one you know you know my incident you know my you know my opinion on penalties i think it's you know i think i think penalty should be should be should be totally taken out the game. I think that something that Paulina spoke about, he said what I've been saying, which is the reward for penalties are way too high. You're getting penalties given for incidents where there's not even a chance to score like this one last night. And in the end, you can see the goal because it's an 80% chance of scoring a penalty.
00:17:50
Speaker
You know, so but Bruce had an age. but I mean, Mike, my opinion probably goes too far um compared to mine, but I would get rid of penalties full stop. I would get rid of penalties. I also think you get rid of penalties. Then you remove the chance of of teams being cheated in this way. well Well, I think if you get rid of penalties, you increase it because then you essentially make you can do whatever you want in the penalty area. Nothing. Well, you'd have to. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But you need to, your need you would need to find a replacement for penalties. I still think there should be a smaller penalty or I think the penalty
Critique of Football Laws and Future Outlook
00:18:20
Speaker
box is too big. um Many times penalties are given at the very edge where there's like literally no chance of scoring. I believe in like fouls inside, like a so smaller penalty area, if that makes sense. I think that's something I would like to see, which is, you know, like the, um what do you call it? The area. i say a picola They call it in the Italian. But something like that, but a little bit bigger. They need to change something. And also, I just want to, because I thought Gasparini's quotes after the game were brilliant, um where he took where he basically, and again, this comes down to the laws of the game and the and also interpretation, and talking about like these penalties that get given with handballs all the time, which we've seen a lot in the last few days.
00:19:02
Speaker
um the you know Footballers now, he says footballers now have to be penguins. which I thought it was brilliant. i've been waiting for somebody to come up ive i've been I've been waiting for somebody to come up with a term to describe what footballers have to be and we always say footballers have to cut their hands off. well no penguins i That's brilliant. A friend of mine texted me after that and said I can't wait to hear Gasparini's thoughts after this.
00:19:29
Speaker
and he duly delivered penguins. The reason why he called them penguins is, well I'll read out his quote, he says, the trouble now is we all have to run around like penguins with our arms glued to the sides of our body, jump like penguins too. Which which is brilliant i live one and he's absolutely true because again it comes down to, you know, not not understanding the natural movements in football.
00:19:51
Speaker
no not understanding natural means like i for me i wouldn't give any you know me i'm a bit extreme i wouldn't give it any penalties for all these controversies on handballs penalties and in the last week i wouldn't give any of them i mean i may be taking too far but he's right you have to be penguins you know you you jump up for a hand for a jump up for something in the penalty area and you're defending You have to put your hands by your side. or If you jump your hand by your side, you're not going to be able to leap very high because you need your your arms to jump. ah He's ridiculous and and I think Gasparini is absolutely right. football is now are quote Football is now going in a direction that has nothing whatsoever to do with with the sport.
00:20:28
Speaker
I know, honestly, no longer even understand the rules now. And I certainly don't like it. No, it's I don't think this is an understanding of the rules. I think this is just a an egregious decision. I think it was. It's it's in this case, yes, but I'm talking. john but Yeah, no, but this this is just this is one of the biggest refereeing mistakes and howlers I've ever seen. And and I don't understand it and I will never understand it. And I don't think anyone does.
00:20:54
Speaker
um It just makes no sense. um And for it to be a foul, there has to be more on it. It's that simple. That's the crux of it. That's not the the contact. I mean, they they keep talking about how we don't want to give you know cheap penalties. We don't want to give every contact doesn't warrant a foul. They keep telling us all these things. And then then we see a penalty like that.
00:21:23
Speaker
It just, it makes a mockery of everything because it just, it's stupid. um And the and and and and the the reason the VAR was put in there is to is to prevent from these things going on um and and to eliminate these mistakes.
00:21:40
Speaker
and the and why that failed, that's something that UEFA have to explain. Did the VAR recommend an on-field review? And if they did, then this referee should not be allowed to referee at this level again, because just like in the Premier League, when remember when the... I think it was Liverpool who the VAR told the referee that I can't remember exactly what it was, that it was the goal was good, but he didn't give it, and the game continued. and It was a misunderstanding that yeah misunderstand the VAR meant to say it's good as in it's good to do a review, it's good to took disallow it and he thought he meant the goal is good or so something like that. Yeah something like that and then what happened is that Verifree was let go.
00:22:22
Speaker
As harsh as that sounds, he was let go because he they they they they published the communication and then they let the referee go, which I think is the right decision. Certain thing, you know, it's about credibility. If you have no credibility, then you can't continue and in in in in that position. um And that's that's all it is here. I think if you after a decision like this, you have zero credibility to continue as a referee, I think. And I know it sounds harsh, but that's that's the That's the nature of it. That's why we want the best people to be referees. They can make mistakes, but this is this is this level of mistake is just not acceptable. It really isn't. I still can't believe what I saw yesterday. I still don't understand how that decision was allowed to stand. I can understand him giving it, but I don't understand why the VAR and him did not cooperate to to to remove it. That I don't understand.
00:23:20
Speaker
And I will probably never will understand because there is it's in a million years. That's not a penalty. That's not a foul. It's just not. Yeah, I can't understand either. And like I said at the start, I want to believe in competency, but I just don't believe you can be even incompetent. I think you can. I think you can. Even towards what Karlen said, among all the stupid people in the world, I still can't believe there are people that stupid. But yeah, anyway, just I mean, the rest of the game almost pales in significance. But I do want to say, I was going to say, I think Brigge played really well, really well.
00:23:58
Speaker
And they kind of beat them Atalanta at their own game a little bit. And and that really disrupted Atalanta. So nothing I don't want to take anything away from Clabriga because I thought they played really, really well. And they they they they they shocked Atalanta tactically, which is very rarely something you see teams do play against them like that. But I don't think it's impossible. I don't think it's like they don't have a chance. They're at home.
00:24:29
Speaker
now and I think Atalanta will have learned from this and I think they will come into this game completely fired up and I don't and and i think the referee will be i think there will be very reti you know cognizant of the fact of what happened and and and and I don't think that anything dramatic will happen in this game now. I think in the sense that I don't expect any referee shocking refereeing decisions to be made.
00:24:51
Speaker
in the return leg because this was well um this is what everyone is talking about. This is literally what everyone is talking about. Yeah. Well, the damage is done now. We just have to hope that Atalanta can concern it around. I think they will. and that they Are Atalanta good enough to beat Club Rigue at home with a two goal advantage? Yes.
00:25:10
Speaker
They are just a little bit worried about the physical shape of the injuries as well. I don't know whether the flu that went right through the team played a role, but they looked very flat. They didn't look like they ever had any energy or intensity. And the number of injuries they've got, especially in defence, the defence didn't look good. Posh was really poor, who they brought in from January, really, really poor.
00:25:33
Speaker
and they yeah they didn't really create that much either. They did have a summons it had a big chance. Quadrado was really good. He was probably the only positive. When Quadrado came on, and he gave him a boost. He went on a like number of really great dribbles. Quadrado is probably the only only player that really performed well in this game. In some instances, it's a big chance.
00:25:52
Speaker
so at one one and But other than that, didn't really they didn't really create ah much at all um in in this game. Great header by Pasalic. They'll give him credit for his goal. that That was great. But yeah, Club Breezer are a tricky team. i mean They've got a good record. They've beaten Atalanta now.
00:26:07
Speaker
you know ah made scandal, but they beat Aston Villa, they drew with Juventus, they were winning at City, man City won nearly half time and and played well in that game before losing, so yeah, not going to be easy for us. I really hope, yeah, I mean it would just be such an injustice if they go out because of that, because of that, it's just not fair. Yeah, but they have to shake this off now, they have to show that they are a team that knows how to win in Europe and that has experience from the Champions League. You can lose a game like this, that's fine, but you have to bounce back and you have to show mental strength and I expect
00:26:38
Speaker
Gasparini need to do that. um He will have fired up players. I just need him to tactically study what went wrong and adjust and then systematically try to try to go after Club Riguet. Study them properly. Never mind the Serie A right now. Focus on on this. You have to get through. It's it's that simple.