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Bryony Bishop on building a sense of connection and belonging
14 Plays3 months ago
Meet Bryony, a quietly tenacious connector whose story weaves through heartbreak, heritage, and hard-won community.
Born in Herne Bay, she left Kent as a teenager and returned decades later, newly single and starting over in Margate. She came back for an exciting role at Turner Contemporary, just as the gallery’s arrival was stirring debate in the local community.
It was a time of creative ambition and a personal quest for connection to ease the loneliness.
A seasoned communications and marketing consultant, Bryony’s career has taken her from the British Museum to BookTrust, English National Ballet to grassroots domestic abuse charities. But despite a career spent helping others find their voice, she has some honest reflections on the challenges of making friends in midlife, and why introducing yourself at a party can feel unexpectedly loaded.
That longing for connection is what led her to create Bee’s Bookshare, a joyful, opinionated open to all community group to talk about books, with no pressure to perform and no expectations around commitment.
Join us as we talk about why adult friendship is so much harder than it should be, the surprising grief of being ghosted, and why some hobbies just don’t stick (especially, pottery and creative writing in our case). This is a conversation about friendship, identity and the quiet power of starting small.
Work with Bryony: https://beebeecomms.com/
Read about Bee's Bookshare: https://beesbookshare.co.uk/
Music: Morning Span provided by Mobygratis #mobygratis
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Transcript
Bryony's Journey: Returning to Margate
00:00:00
Speaker
Meet Bryony, a quietly tenacious connector whose story weaves through heartbreak heritage and hard-won community. Born in Herne Bay, she left Kent as a teenager and returned decades later newly single and starting over in Margate.
00:00:15
Speaker
She came back for an exciting role at Turner Contemporary just as the gallery's arrival was stirring debate in the local community. It was a time of creative ambition and a personal quest for connection to ease the loneliness.
00:00:29
Speaker
A seasoned communications and marketing consultant, Bryony's career has taken her from the British Museum to Book Trust, English National Ballet to grassroots charities. But despite a career spent helping others find their voice, she has some honest reflections on the challenges of making friends in midlife and why introducing yourself at a party can feel unexpectedly loaded.
Building Community: Bee's Bookshare
00:00:52
Speaker
That longing for connection is what led her to create Bee's Bookshare a joyful, opinionated, open to all community group to talk about books with no pressure to perform and no expectations around commitment.
00:01:05
Speaker
Join us as we talk about why adult friendship is so much harder than it should be, the surprising grief of being ghosted and why some hobbies just don't stick. especially pottery and creative writing in our case.
00:01:18
Speaker
This is a conversation about friendship, identity and the quiet power of starting small. Welcome Bryony. Thank you for joining me for the podcast. Let's rewind back to 2010.
00:01:32
Speaker
What made you leave Oxford and take the job at Turner Contemporary in Margay?
Margate and Personal Transformations
00:01:37
Speaker
Hey Emily, great to be with you Well, if I'm really honest, it was heartbreak.
00:01:43
Speaker
and long-term relationship was going a bit sour. My partner had moved abroad. I thought I was going to move with him and turns out he didn't really want me to. So I thought I'd have a little adventure myself. ah Margate was a bit different to Sweden.
00:01:59
Speaker
Very different. You couldn't really get much different. So I plumped for ah applying for a job in the arts because I'd studied art history and I'd been in children's publishing, which I loved. But I thought, oh I've got to use my degree And the job came up at Turner Contemporary and I never expected to move back to my home county at all.
00:02:17
Speaker
And what was Margate like when you arrived? Like, you know, this is your home county, so I'm sure it was different when you were growing up. In 2010, what was it like visually, culturally or even emotionally?
00:02:28
Speaker
So my memories of Margate were coming of age summers at Ben Bond Brothers £10 ride all day, hanging out in the high street. So when I got off the train and it it was all quite sad and all the buildings looked sad, was a great day.
00:02:43
Speaker
And I remember getting off the train going, absolutely not coming back here, even if I get offered the job. Really? Yeah. And then I had a really brilliant interview and I walked out and I thought, I absolutely want it. I'm coming back.
00:02:57
Speaker
I know what I've been missing the last couple of years and it's being by the seaside. Even on a grey day? even on a grey day. So did it feel like there was a wave of change coming from our gate that made you excited? What was it in particular that swung it?
00:03:12
Speaker
I think I was very focused on myself and my career and my personal life at that time. I didn't really take on the gravitas of what that project was until I started working in it. And it was a baptism of fire. It was incredibly intense for many years, 12 16 hour days.
00:03:28
Speaker
felt like starting uni again. We'd all uprooted our lives to be there. And so we all enjoyed that in all its forms and spent all our waking hours together. And was there a moment where you thought, oh, actually, this is going to be harder than I might have anticipated?
00:03:45
Speaker
I think my youthfulness and naivety and keenness to do well at work overrode all of that. And those first six years of the gallery's life, so many opportunities and incredible pinch me moments and the people that came and we met and worked with really leading contemporary artists.
00:04:05
Speaker
It was just for me an art history student's dream. Work dominated everything and everything was related to it. People only saw me as Turner contemporary employee and that was quite difficult.
00:04:18
Speaker
Because regeneration or change isn't always welcomed by the community because people fear change. And I think a big new building in quite a prominent part of the seafront worried people and people were worried about what it signifies.
00:04:35
Speaker
I mean, we got trolled every day before that word even came into social media existence. We used to get such hate messages. People would phone us up and be horrible to us on the phone, made us cry.
00:04:47
Speaker
I couldn't go out in Margate socially because people would recognize you as working there. So we used to go out in the neighboring towns. But that it's only on reflection that I think that's quite a big deal.
00:04:57
Speaker
But I've always been very open to the tension and the rub. You know, I grew up in that area. ah know it very well. It's all about working with not being done to find the change in Margate and what it is now 15 years later incredibly yeah astonishing. But the tensions are still there and they always will be.
00:05:18
Speaker
I mean, I think tensions in seaside towns are always there. You know, you can't live without visitors and tourism. When they arrive, you can't live with tourism and visitors. People talk about the places like they're people, like they're a person. And you don't, I never had that when I lived in Oxfordshire and the the town I lived in there, all the villages.
00:05:38
Speaker
And I find that really fascinating. And when people move to these towns, they adopt that feeling and that sense and that ownership, pride, but also that it's like this living, breathing person, not just a town where you live. It's really fascinating.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, and you feel quite protective of that identity, I think. You know, when I grew up and people would say, where are you from? You'd say Whipsville. They'd be like, huh? Where's that?
00:06:06
Speaker
And now you say it, everybody knows where it is. They've heard of it. It's in the top 10 list of places to go in the UK. And you're like, don't put it on the list. It's a weird mix of pride that people now have heard of these places in this part of Kent.
00:06:21
Speaker
And fear as well that you just don't want too many people hearing of it at the same time. It is a really strange thing. Yeah, and I've worked in tourism, you know. And so I've been very much part of driving people there. And I think that's really important. But I think all of it comes down to your own individual sense of belonging and what that means to you at different points in your life. I've had three different relationships with Margate. It feels like a person I've had a relationship with.
00:06:49
Speaker
I ran to it when I was heartbroken. i got a separation in 2016 when I moved to London for a bit. And then I came back a little bit with my tail between my legs going, oh, I love you really.
00:07:00
Speaker
you know, you're my home. And now they've got slightly to the, you know, I love you, but you can be a bit irritating sometimes. I totally identify with that. I grew grew up in Whitsville, couldn't wait to move as far away as possible on the border of Scotland, then London. And then as soon as I got pregnant, thought, oh no, I need to come back, you know, and also get irritated. That totally resonates.
00:07:23
Speaker
I think the belonging theme is really
Friendships and Social Networks
00:07:26
Speaker
interesting. When we talked about the theme for this podcast, we talked about how making friends as an adult can be really difficult. especially if you might be introverted you don't have kids you're not hanging around a school gate where you can easily make connections or even if you've got a dog and you can sort of meet people while you're walking the dog what's your thoughts around kind of belonging and how it how forgiving society is for like lonelier adults and making new friends I think it can be really hard as you get older for me
00:08:01
Speaker
Those connections have reduced but become more profound. I don't have 30 close friends or this group that I hang out with all the time anymore. I have a few really, really, really close, meaningful friends. I have longstanding friendships that I dip in and out ah of.
00:08:18
Speaker
I think it's a recalibration in different chapters of your life, really. I think it feels specifically on social media that as women, we're supposed to be surrounded by a big tribe of women lifting us up at all moments, ready to drop everything and to come around with a casserole in a time of need.
00:08:37
Speaker
But actually, it feels to me when I talk to people, people have like a handful of really cool friends. That's not really talked about. You know, the goal is to have this really wide circle of people. And it can make you feel like you're doing something wrong, perhaps, if you don't have that.
00:08:54
Speaker
I agree. And I think it's understanding yourself and what whether society has made you think certain things or whether that's actually what you want and feel. I mean, I battle with that all the time from shaving my armpits and my legs through to, but it's true, isn't it? I have no idea whether i shave my armpits because society has always ingrained it in me from age 10 or whether I genuinely prefer my armpit shaved. You could assign that to making connections and friendships. I think I should have people WhatsAppping me all the time asking me out, but if they did it'd stress me out and I wouldn't go out anyway because I don't fancy going to the pub.
00:09:27
Speaker
So it's be careful what you wish for. And those close friendships, there'll be some people you turn to in certain situations, but others not. So it's about having a range of different people.
00:09:38
Speaker
And you mentioned the word tribe. And I think there's a big distinction between tribe and being tribal. I find that groups can be very tribal and therefore quite set in how you should be and maybe what interests you have or where you go out or even what drinks you drink or what you're wearing, you know, essence of tribalism can actually be, you know, quite difficult.
00:10:07
Speaker
So I think like when you came back to Margate for Turner Contemporary, you were lucky that you struck gold with a work family. But how did you kind of enrich the other parts of your life?
Resilience and Burnout
00:10:20
Speaker
Because although you're a camp girl at heart, I'm assuming you didn't really have a ready-made social network to come back to when you came back to Margate. No, absolutely didn't. And I had moved quite a bit as a young person. I've moved from um Kent twice within Kent and then we moved to Berkshire when I was 14. So I had to restart my life when I was 15 going into GCSEs when everyone had already formed their friendship groups. It was quite cliquey.
00:10:49
Speaker
um that That was the toughest time actually ever to do that and at that age. um And I never felt quite at home there. Then I did it again at uni when I lived away at uni and still got lifelong friends.
00:11:02
Speaker
Then I moved to Oxfordshire, restarted my life again and made new friends, mainly through work, but then going out and da, da, da, da. And then again in Margate. and So I'd already done it several times, but when I came to Margate and that first two years was just on work, work, work, but it was like having a drug and that There's always a come down and 2012 was a come down.
00:11:27
Speaker
I didn't know what it was then, but I was exhausted. I was burnt out and I was a bit depressed really. And I loved the friendship group I'd made at work, but everything just felt Turner contemporary related.
00:11:38
Speaker
And I just wanted to join a book group. When I lived in Oxfordshire, I went to a book group where you had to read a set text and one, I wasn't that fussed about the book. And then people told me off for having an opinion and you can't be told off for an opinion. and An opinion isn't right or wrong. but What mean you can't have an opinion?
00:11:54
Speaker
oh, well, I just said what I thought about a book and it was very, you know, highfalutin literati that were basically telling me off for having an opinion. And I walked out there going, that was awful. I never want to go to a book group again.
00:12:08
Speaker
But I loved books and I wanted to share books. And with a few friends, we used to swap books. And ah Penny, who used to run the original Thoughts Cafe, and we met up and she goes, well, why don't you just do that then?
00:12:23
Speaker
And so that's how Bees Bookshare was formed because there wasn't a book group to join. So I created it, but I didn't really think about it. i didn't contrive it. I just put a tweet out back when the fan at Twitterati was very, very prolific and just said, would anyone fancy a book group? and Forks Cafe have offered to host it.
00:12:44
Speaker
Loads of people came back and it's been running 13 years now in lots of different venues. And um it's been absolutely wonderful for me personally and a lot of the people that have come over the years and continue to come.
00:12:59
Speaker
So what was your premise for the group? Could anybody join or was it open to all within the community? And what was your objective there? Yeah, I just ah always called it the book group with a difference. No set text, any kind of book, any kind of person welcome, whether you've loved it, loathed it, couldn't put it down, couldn't get into it, come along.
00:13:19
Speaker
talk about it and then swap your books, share them at the end.
Impact of Bee's Bookshare
00:13:23
Speaker
And now I just say, even if you just want to listen, that's fine. If you haven't got book to share or it's a library book, that's fine. You know, some books are precious and sentimental.
00:13:32
Speaker
And from that, I've done lots of different projects with lots of different people over that 13 years. But really, the premise is really simple. We're just chatting about books and sharing a love of reading and coming together to do that over ah a cuppa and a slice of cake.
00:13:47
Speaker
So it sounds like you didn't really have to do too much to get an audience, like it was an open door ready to be kind of kicked open. Yeah, I guess so, because there wasn't a lot going on. I've never worried about crunching the numbers. If eight people come, great.
00:14:02
Speaker
If 28 people come, I mean, the most we've had is 30, which made it slightly unmanageable. But doing marketing as a job, I've purposefully not focused too much on that angle and given myself all these KPIs and things with it's very organic and it's mainly about enjoyment and finding the joy you know in reading and coming together about that shared interest and that shared love and what have you learned from bee's book share in terms of community and connections and how people want to connect i think people are wonderful
00:14:39
Speaker
they're very different and people come wanting different things. So there's something as the group facilitator of managing that. I think what people seek out is a common ground and a sense of something for themselves or that sense of belonging in whatever way that is. And what's been really joyful over the years is to discover the friendships that formed from it.
00:15:01
Speaker
Not just my own personal ones, but For example, two of my booksharers share an allotment together because they met through Bookshare. Another one, they've made friendships and they go to another book group together.
00:15:14
Speaker
You know, no shade there. You're allowed to go as many book groups as you like. Or they've gone and had a wild night out at like Margate Pride or something. I love the intergenerationality of it.
00:15:25
Speaker
And there was one bookshare where a ah longstanding kind of older member of the group and a very young um person who just moved to Margate absolutely bonded over this book about wood cutting you know not everyone's cup of tea but it was like these little mini book book shaped love hearts where you know flying across the room and it was a really beautiful moment I've had people say that it really helped them get out of their own depression you know opened up to loads of different reads that they wouldn't have done otherwise so you kind of I find that particularly you have this
00:16:02
Speaker
exercise in trying different things in a really safe environment and it's okay and then you're talking about it and what some person might love the other might hate I call it the Marmite books love it or hate it it's the main thing for me is that I've just not overthought it I've not I never set out going oh I want to create a book community it's become that which is really beautiful and I think sometimes you can try too hard It sounds like you came with the true intention and a good heart of community.
00:16:33
Speaker
You just wanted to connect with some people, find some joy, want other people to have a commonality with you in just that simple act. Because I think the word community, bit like tribe, can have a toxic connotation where people are in there trying to do that for their own self-gain.
00:16:53
Speaker
And I think that is a problem in coastal towns where there's huge regeneration. What is the true intent of somebody? It can feel quite complicated at times. What are your thoughts on that?
00:17:07
Speaker
I agree. I think the word community is overused. And I think it's okay to be honest and say it's for my community, not for the community.
00:17:19
Speaker
Because actually... In some instances, you are only trying to appeal to a certain group of people. You know, working in marketing, we always talk about our target audiences and it's okay to to just want to connect with certain people. You sent me a link to an article that someone wrote and they said connection, not consumption.
00:17:41
Speaker
And it really stuck with me that it's about connecting. I i needed to connect with other people that weren't work people. So actually Bookshare started from such quite a selfish act. really. But I was reaching out and the hook, the connector was books.
00:17:56
Speaker
And there was a freedom to that because it was just pure joy. It was just not work related, not overthought. Do you think institutions can play a role in these community connections? Or do you think it always comes down to people like you making that happen?
00:18:11
Speaker
ah key thread, I think, is about sincerity. You know, there's a lot of community working or partnership working and talked about. But sometimes people aren't sincerely wanting that partnership or that collaboration.
00:18:26
Speaker
And I think that's the that's the starting point is that sincerity and that actually wanting to do that and wanting to do things together. I do think if those big organisations set out to say that they are there to do a certain thing and connect with the community, then they should follow through with that.
00:18:47
Speaker
I think it's also a commitment as well.
Sustaining Community Groups
00:18:51
Speaker
A community group is a commitment and it can be really problematic. Like you said at one point, you may have had 30 people.
00:18:58
Speaker
I'm part of the profanity embroidery group. At one point, we had 30 members. We have different opinions about pricing, themes, you know, community work.
00:19:09
Speaker
It can be a real challenge. Like I know you said you took a break in 2016 from the bookshare. from the buthire Do you want to say a little bit about how you reconnected back? Yeah, I moved to London for a couple of years. So I decided to leave the gallery and leave Margate. Yeah, i was in a bit of a personal moment and I needed to do something different. And I think for me, I wasn't used to staying somewhere so long because I'd moved about quite a bit. And if I'm honest, I thought if I don't go now, i'm going to be here and in this place forever.
00:19:42
Speaker
so I need to do something different. But then when I came back, I just put Fila out, would anyone like a reunion? And then people were really asking me to continue it again. So I did. And as I was moving back again in Margate, all my friends from the gallery had moved away.
00:19:57
Speaker
So I had to reform friendships. There were some longstanding from previously, but actually had to recalibrate again in 2017 and make a whole lot of new friends. So Bookshare started again.
00:20:07
Speaker
And it's been absolutely wonderful, really. I've been doing some fundraising which I'm really proud about, especially through the pandemic, getting books to people. um So it's done lots of different things. And I think it's a place where people, if they are feeling a bit isolated, can come in tap into social connection without being too overinvested. And you've got a focal point, which is the book, and you can dip in and and take it away.
00:20:35
Speaker
We talked a little bit about the value of friendship. What do you think friendship gives us that romantic relationships or family sometimes can't? One of the most freeing things I've realized before I got with my current partner is that my partner can't be everything to me.
00:20:53
Speaker
My sisterhood, they give me something that my partner can't and that's not because he's lacking, it's just because different relationships in your life bring different things and it was very freeing to understand that he didn't need to fill a certain role.
00:21:08
Speaker
Different people give me different things. You know, I might have a friend that just roll about laughing with the whole time, but I wouldn't share my deepest, darkest problems But that doesn't mean they're less of a friend. It just means that we channel a different thing together. yeah I think friends are really interesting. We've said that relationships may end. The stats tell us that a long-standing intimate relationship with a partner is like a thing to be cherished because the mathematics tell us it can be quite rare.
00:21:37
Speaker
But there aren't the sort of stats on friendships, friends, wax and wane in your life, ebb and flow. You had a great phrase about, what was it, reason, season, or...
00:21:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah. have A reason, a season or a lifetime. I think there's a middle point between season and lifetime as well. And that's the ebb and flow, that you can be close to people. You know, you don't see them for two years, but when you see them, you can pick it up. And, you know, if you had a crisis, you could call them, but you don't actually speak to them about your day to day. they still value you.
00:22:07
Speaker
thought it fabulous... way of explaining the different types of friendships you can have. Of course, not all friendships last. Some end for reasons we don't understand.
00:22:18
Speaker
And I think there isn't really a social framework to deal with friendships that end, whether that's your choice or not your choice. I think ghosting can be one of the most confusing, painful experiences. I would say it's similar to grief.
00:22:33
Speaker
We've talked quite a lot together about ghosting and we've both had an experience Do you want to share a little bit about yours? few years ago now, our friendship changed.
00:22:44
Speaker
I didn't know it was going to change, but that person decided they didn't really want me in their life anymore. And it felt very overnight.
Navigating Friendships and Loss
00:22:50
Speaker
And it just started with not being invited to things, then not having messages as much. And then when I asked them, is this intentional or not, it all got a bit sticky.
00:22:59
Speaker
And then we haven't really been in touch since. And it's caused myself a lot of self-doubt and upset, lacking confidence, I think. not quite as confident in going out and making new friendships in the same way or trying for them.
00:23:15
Speaker
So it has been quite impactful. Every person has the right, if something isn't working for them, to close that door. And that person obviously felt that with me for whatever reason. And I think there's a lot to do with your individual personality and how you respond to these things. So it created a lot of self-reflection on my part, like why, what have I done wrong? What's wrong with me?
00:23:36
Speaker
And my partner spent a lot of time saying to me, it's more about them, it's not about you. But I think it was the difference between what level and what i thought that friendship was, i.e.
00:23:47
Speaker
for a lifetime and a close friend, when for them or the situation, it was actually a season. And I think that's the reality. It's matching your expectation with the reality You know, I was friends with somebody for decades, providing quite a lot of emotional support for them.
00:24:06
Speaker
And then in my moment of crisis, it was almost how dare you ask me for support when I'm the one who needs support. And then when you said, why are you unable to give that support? feels weird. Absolute rage from their point of view about asking or questioning that part of our relationship. They'd actually said I'd ruin the friendship by questioning it. And then I was left thinking, right, I should never make demands of friendships now because that's not allowed.
00:24:34
Speaker
And I was really surprised about the impact on me. I went into some complete forensic detective and pain shopping their Instagram. For, I would say, embarrassingly years, it was crazy how much headspace it consumed, almost like a divorce or a death.
00:24:53
Speaker
People just can't quite understand it unless they've experienced it themselves. Completely empathise with that. And I think I didn't quite do the pain shopping bit, but I think There is something like the hamster wheel in your head that still goes round about it. It's like, do you text them on their birthday to say happy birthday because that's a nice thing to do and you're honouring what that friendship that was?
00:25:14
Speaker
Or do you not? And then they'll know that you haven't. and then But it all seems a bit vacuous because you're not really friends anymore. Some relationships you don't get a closure from. That helped liberate me from being in that hamster wheel.
00:25:29
Speaker
And I'm waiting to get to that point. with this friendship ghosting. But it will come that there is no closure because you won't find out the real reason and that's okay.
00:25:42
Speaker
I hadn't really thought about it that way. You sort of expect that from a romantic relationship because we've gone through that many times. But i think with friendships, because it doesn't happen often, you expect a closure. Ghosting is just really cruel to leave somebody wondering why. There just doesn't seem to be this friendship appraisal like you have at work.
00:26:03
Speaker
You know, your performance at work is lacking, is excelling, is whatever. We're used to that. Or even relationships. We tell each other in our intimate relationships what's lacking. We have love language, all of that.
00:26:17
Speaker
But friendships, it feels like an untapped area of giving honest feedback and accepting feedback so you can grow together. And I just think that's really problematic as we get older. It's actually about respect. Ghosting does not respect the time that you've spent together. And there's something about honouring the relationship that you've had together, even if that relationship hasn't worked out to last longer.
00:26:41
Speaker
On my part, I've never told them how I feel, how upset I've been. I've just walked away because that's my nature. and I'm not very confrontational and I've just quietly slipped away and hid under a rock. But it's made me quite guarded.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah. But i think that's about me as much as it's about them. And i i'm very I'm self-aware enough to know that it's ah prodded lots of elements of my personality, sensitivity, insecurity.
00:27:07
Speaker
And that's my shit. That's not their shit. I also think, you know in perimenopause, when anxiety is like pretty a rampant in our lives, you just try and avoid any situations in your private life where you have more control than your professional life to avoid that. So I gravitate towards friends who are pretty consistent when I turn up, even if they've got ah crisis in their life.
00:27:37
Speaker
They generally are consistent people in terms of how they receive me and how they are receptive to me. And anyone that I think isn't consistent is probably where I shy away from the most.
00:27:50
Speaker
I mean, this all happened around the height of me starting to feel really not myself and not having sparkle. And that was perimenopausal symptoms and the anxiety. was huge. I felt down but couldn't understand why. So I think I probably wasn't the best to be around. But again, that's me blaming myself.
00:28:09
Speaker
And I, you know, I blame myself a lot for this situation. Oh, I'm not fun enough or I'm not this or I'm not that. Actually, maybe I am a bit dull and unsparkly at the moment, but there's going to be people that actually find that version of me great.
00:28:25
Speaker
You know, it's like a different chapter. Yeah. Plus, I think as women, we should be more forgiving of the sisterhood.
Evolving Identities and Societal Pressures
00:28:33
Speaker
And the fact that we may have different variances in sparkle, our personalities may change as we're dealing with perimenopause, menopause and the symptoms. Like it's pretty hard to be switched on and illuminating at full brightness all the time. It's exhausting, frankly.
00:28:49
Speaker
This comes back to something you said earlier about what we feel we should be rather than who we are. So in my head, I'm like, oh, I should be funny all the time and I should be sparkly all the time and I must be the joy bringer and I must be exuberant and I must be this for people to want to hang out with me.
00:29:06
Speaker
That's a big thing in the last few years. And I think that is perimenopause or brain or the shift or whatever insecurity or the reaction to this friendship fading away. yeah But really, I'm not that person all the time. I can tune into that. Like everyone, I'm quite quiet when I'm at home.
00:29:23
Speaker
ah like the calm. like the chill. I'm more outdoorsy than I used to be. And actually, I'm probably more confident in being that person. Like, don't know, I reflect back and yeah, I went clubbing. Yeah, went out loads when I was younger and I thought I liked it.
00:29:41
Speaker
Did the whole drinking a lot. But really, I think I never ever really liked going clubbing. I love the music. And I think over the years I've made excuses not to go. Now I realise it's because I don't actually you often have a good time at a party because I find it all a bit overwhelming and, you know. the Actually, let's talk about parties for a moment because I think when you go to a party, what's the first thing someone asks you when you're at a party and you don't know them?
00:30:08
Speaker
What do you do? What is somebody basically saying when they ask you what do you do? Yeah, it's about your work self. I would welcome... What you like doing? Who are you? So my partner, when we first met, he didn't want to know what I did for a job. but After three weeks, I said, you can ask me. goes, no, I want to know who you are, not what you do. It's a job. Wow. I mean, I'm making him sound like some kind of philosopher or something. He's really not.
00:30:34
Speaker
But I was really impressed. And it takes away, there's a transaction that's happening if you're asking what people do. Because why do you need to know that? Yeah, what can you offer me? Can we work together? Can you give me a connection? Can you get me work?
00:30:47
Speaker
you know Is there money to be made here? It's a very loaded question. I think it's particularly difficult if you're freelancer because people just want, like, what brand are you working for? Do I know them?
00:31:01
Speaker
It's almost like a Black Mirror episode where you then got a rating in society and I hate it. Yeah, well, someone says to me, have you got work on at the moment? You've got enough work on. I'm like, yeah, thanks. Yeah, not what interesting projects are you doing? But they're not interested in what the work.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, or I had someone, ah well, you don't really do big organisations anymore, do you? You just do hyper-local charities as if that was a bad thing.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I hadn't really thought about it, but it created a bit of anxiety in myself because was like, oh how do people perceive And then I thought, how do I perceive myself? That's more important.
00:31:41
Speaker
But I think at a party, start with who you are as a person and be curious about the other person rather than lead with what value are you bringing. I read something the other day about think about eulogy vibes.
00:31:55
Speaker
When you're someone's reading your eulogy at your funeral, they're not going to read your LinkedIn profile out. You're leaving behind the legacy. So when you're at a party, try and understand that part of somebody. ah I don't think it's that hard a switch. So we should all go to a party with our self-written obituary that we get out.
00:32:15
Speaker
and Yeah, and talk about yourself in the third person. Just be extra weird. Well, have you ever done the rocking chair exercise? No, what's up? So it's quite similar to this. So you're sat in your rocking chair, you're a bit older, and somebody's talking to you and said, oh, tell me about your life.
00:32:32
Speaker
You're never going to go, oh, I increased sales by 26% to this event. It's important at the time. And I did it recently. do you know what? Everything in that was about Bookshare.
00:32:44
Speaker
And it helped me really understand how important Bookshare is to me because it was about me putting something out into the world that's just small, quite grassroots, but has had a lot of meaning over the years and continues to run because people want it.
00:33:02
Speaker
But the main thing work-related in my rocking chair is there was a lot of meaning and purpose in what did because I work with charities. So yeah, it's an interesting exercise
Fostering Genuine Connections
00:33:13
Speaker
to do.
00:33:13
Speaker
If someone listening feels isolated or unsure how to even start building connections with people, what would you say to them? Try and build and foster that connection with yourself first.
00:33:27
Speaker
Spending time by yourself can be golden. And we think sometimes that You need lots of other people around you, but you don't. And maybe connect with things that are a shared interest, but don't go with loads of expectations thinking you're going to meet your tribe or loads of best friends. Let things flow naturally.
00:33:46
Speaker
I felt in 2020 with the pandemic, I lost a bit of the art of natural conversation went out and about. And I started to practice random conversations. So if I was sitting at a restaurant, I would say like, oh, I love your bag. Conversation starters that sometimes went nowhere, but just practicing talking to strangers. And you next thing, you can be having half an hour conversation with somebody. I thought that really helped me get back into the art of conversation.
00:34:17
Speaker
I think that's a great tip. And actually a kind comment can make someone's day. Actually, I get this quite a lot now. People go, I love the way your hair's going grey. Well, first they said you dye it. And I'm like, I wouldn't dye stripes in the middle of my head.
00:34:31
Speaker
But um I actually get a lot from that because I had a real moment of grief for my dark brown hair and going grey. And, you know, it was, I didn't expect to, but I did.
00:34:42
Speaker
So it's just those simple things that are kind comments. And then you lead on to, um yeah, I had a big hang up about going around. Someone will go, yeah, I did. But what's that about? That's society that women are on the shelf over 40. And, you know, you can end up having quite a big conversation about it from ah just a kind comment, I think.
00:35:01
Speaker
I think that's a good way to start. And thinking back to 2010, based on what you know now about friendship and community, what do you think you would have done different?
00:35:15
Speaker
I think it's about let some natural energy come in. Don't try and overthink it. Be open to things, but know when something feels right or not right.
00:35:27
Speaker
I tried pottery. thought I was going to have a career change. thought was going to be brilliant. I was absolutely shocking. I was so bad the bomb filler. I gave up halfway through. It was awful. I had so much expectation and it was an absolute flop.
00:35:41
Speaker
But now I just laugh about it. But it taught me. It was never going to meet what my expectation was. I completely ah resonate with this. So I went to a creative writing class led by quite a well-known author in Whistapal.
00:35:56
Speaker
So excited about it. Within the first 15 minutes, they gave a scenario and said, OK, write a dialogue between the protagonist and the antagonist. And I was frozen.
00:36:08
Speaker
i mean, I'm a trained journalist. I write all the time, but I don't write creatively and I certainly don't write dialogue. Oh, my God, I was sweating. I wrote this thing down. We all had to read them out. I was lost. Everyone was amazing. Mine was like an eight year old.
00:36:23
Speaker
that had written something at primary school. It was so, and I'm not even being modest, it was so embarrassing. I never went back. It was just shockingly bad. There is not a novel in me.
00:36:35
Speaker
That's what did. Do know what? I would feel the same. I think I'd like to go to creative writing classes, but actually what I want to do is sit by myself and write and no one read it so no one can criticise it.
00:36:46
Speaker
Honestly, I know my personality personality so well. It's like if I wrote a book, I wouldn't send it to all my friends to give me their feedback. I just send it off and let the publishers reject me because I don't know them. So the thought of reading. So there's these groups in Margate and I love it where people can go and read out their writing.
00:37:06
Speaker
and like It's called Writing in Progress. But I just want to go and listen. I absolutely do not want to stand up in front of a room full of people because although it's like no judgment, it's judging you in their head where they don't like, you Oh, yeah.
00:37:19
Speaker
and But I have such admiration for people that do it. But I want to go and listen. But I know my personality. I know myself enough to know i I'd be exactly – I'm with you, Emily. and Maybe it's because we're marketing comms people and write all the time. Don't know.
00:37:33
Speaker
Let's hide behind that. but I think what we're saying is give things a go and don't feel bad. If it doesn't work out, just try something else. Yeah, totally. Or just, you know, do we have to have these endless things that we try? Just find something – Thank you so much for talking to me today. I think there's loads there on belonging and friendships and how to find a community. Thank you so much.
00:38:15
Speaker
you