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Free Exclusive Interview Episode - SPAL President Joe Tacopina (Ep. 300)
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The Italian Football Podcast celebrates 300 episodes by interviewing SPAL President Joe Tacopina on all things SPAL, European Super League, Juventus plusvalenza gate, Serie A, Serie B and Calcio.
Every interview as well as weekly Monday episodes of The Italian Football Podcast are free for all.
To listen to ALL episodes of The Italian Football Podcast, go to Patreon.com/TIFP to become a Patron for only $2.99 USD per month (excluding VAT).
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another interview episode of the Italian Football Podcast. My name is Niemataale Rutsari, and today we are joined once again by a very good friend of the show. He's always very generous and kind with his time when coming on. He is the Spal president and owner, Mr. Joe Takopina. Joe, how are you doing?
00:00:29
Speaker
I mean, in general, I'm doing well, you know, dealing with some crazy times and some tough times. That's all part of the part of the package. You know, it's not always supposed to be easy. It isn't always easy. And you know, even great teams go through periods and then we're just having one of those periods.
Coaching Changes at Spal
00:00:46
Speaker
So we are.
00:00:48
Speaker
Well, let's let's talk about that, because you did appoint Daniela de Rossi. And I know that you were in talks before a little while. I think it was a year ago when you were in talks with him to bring him on. And that never materialized. And so you brought him on. And then unfortunately, you had to dismiss him as the coach. I mean, that must have been a tough decision. And why do you think it didn't work out with de Rossi? Well, it became even a tougher decision when you add to the mix that he's a good friend of mine.
00:01:18
Speaker
and a really good friend of mine who I've known since my days at Roma, and he was somebody I was very close with and very close with still, which made it even more difficult and more awkward, but that's the risk you run when you hire a friend in any business, I guess, particularly in this very up and down industry of CalChill. It was disappointing, but it had to be done.
00:01:46
Speaker
Look, we had 15 points in 16 games of the Denali. 15 points in 16 games that's less than a point of game. That's not acceptable. It's even Denali acknowledge that he understood that. And honestly, if it weren't Denali de Rossi, it probably would have happened a lot earlier. But because he's my friend, because I know who he is as a character, and I know who he is as a person, a leader, I always assumed he'd be able to muscle through this thing with us. It just didn't happen.
00:02:16
Speaker
You know, I think part of it is this. He's a new coach. First time he's ever had a head coaching job. He's not particularly familiar with the Christopher with Siri B's in different world than Syria or, you know, Champions League, different type of football. And, you know, our model of play didn't really suit our roster was more, you know, a ticky tack type of thing with the taco with which which was a balloon Barcelona sort of
00:02:42
Speaker
you know, model of play where, but, but we, and look, we possess the ball 65% of the time under the Nelly, but we don't have like two shots every game. And you know, at the end of the day, you definitely can't score if you don't shoot. Um, and, and we were just, you know, we didn't have the roster, the skillset, I don't think to, to perform that way. Um, you know, we tried and I, and listen, make, make this clear, you know, there's no doubt in my mind that Nelly's or she's going to be,
00:03:10
Speaker
one of the great coaches in football. I mean, no doubt that nothing, nothing changes. I mean, I've said that one and I've introduced him. Um, I just think the timing perhaps wasn't right. Perhaps he wasn't ready and perhaps the combination of, uh, you know, Siri B category for him, you know, just didn't, I think it was all stuff that didn't really come together. And, uh, you know, unfortunately, you know, where we had to make a decision because we were in position where, you know, we're sort of towards the bottom of the table and our roster.
00:03:38
Speaker
Isorasa should be towards the top of the table.
Squad Analysis and Key Players
00:03:41
Speaker
I mean, you know when you talk about let's go through our strike we have Andrea Lamontia one of the big bombers of Syria B with a big summer acquisition and Gabriel Mocini another Harrolded Syria B, you know forward striker Behind them is a guy named Rajan Nangala Okay. Now Rajan just came and went to market. So it's not like he'd been here all year
00:04:02
Speaker
But he is, I mean, he's still a world-class player in my book, named a world-class player, which he's such a different level of what's going on out there. It's not even funny. We were, in the honest, set to see this, another really top-notch Syriac-type player, played in general, played Verona, played for Lipiakos, the Greek national team. I mean, this guy is this little wizard with the ball one-on-one.
00:04:27
Speaker
you know, it goes on from there. We had this young kid, Matteo Proppi, who's, when we sold this puzzle, it came out of nowhere and actually improved our center midfield position over disposal. Matteo Proppi is 19 years old. He came from Serie D last year, our sporting director found him in Serie D. He looks like he's 13 years old, but he plays like he's 35. And he has got this unbelievable touch and this great awareness of the game.
00:04:53
Speaker
We have Lorenzo Dickman, one of the, considered one of the best right defenders in Syria, to be. Alessandro Crippa-Belli is a 23 national team player. Marco Ranier, our seven defender, was hurt by Atalanta, about seven million euros. That's the size of Syria, our defender. He had some injuries, and he's back now in his arms. So it goes on and on, but it's just, it's
00:05:17
Speaker
It's, it's, we are definitely not where we should be. And that's at the end of the day is what this business is about. It's a result oriented business and we had to do what we had to do when I bought in Massimo Odo because of his experiences and his credentials. I wanted to ask you about Massimo Odo, so that's a good segue. What made you go for, for him? I mean, he's also a 2006 World Cup winner like De Rossi. What made you go after Odo and what do you think he will bring to Spal?
00:05:44
Speaker
That's exactly, you know, the World Cup winner ingredient to something so that was was a plus here, especially when one one leaves, you know, so it's like, you know,
00:05:54
Speaker
He'd left him with taking a coach from the primavera and the players don't know him. No, the players, all players look up to a world champion and Massimo's a world champion. And he's also just a terrific guy. Massimo, my reputation, I didn't know him well. I knew him, of course, my 13 years in this world. But I didn't know him well. Many people just reported back to me about what a terrific guy he is. And I've seen that in one week. But more importantly, he really understands
00:06:23
Speaker
the way to simplify football. And you have to simplify football in our category. He's coming up to a completely different game than what we're playing. He's someone who won Serie B football first. He was with Pascara about six, seven years ago. I beat him when I was President Bologna. We beat him in the finals.
00:06:43
Speaker
to go to Syria. And not by much, by the way, it was a scary, scary game. They hit the traversal crossbar, you know, in the last 10 seconds of the game or so. But we beat them. And then the next year, he won Syria B with Pascara. So, you know, he's someone who's actually won Syria B. He's
00:07:03
Speaker
just a good guy who knows the game, knows the category and has respect for the players. So it was a sort of an easy choice. You know, Massimo, you know, sometimes I think by Massimo though, since August, you know, we'd probably be in a different position right now, but we're here now and let's see how it goes. For sure. Um, speaking of Raja, I mean, that is the signing of the Serie B. Um, you, you may, what, what's his impact been on the team and the dressing room so far?
00:07:31
Speaker
It's been unbelievable. I mean, look, everyone said, oh, you know, Rasha comes with the good rush and the bad rush. And, you know, sometimes he goes off the reservation and he's, you know, he could be a wild man and all this stuff. And the spices and being a world-class player, you know, he's been just exemplary. It's like, I'm like, I'm shocked. I mean, he's been on the field. He's talked to all the other, we have a very young team spot, the second in this team, the whole series.
00:07:58
Speaker
Um, and he's on the field talking to these players as he's running around coaching him on the field. Um, his skillset is obviously it's freaking unique. I mean, I, yeah, I'm just like, it's like watching, you know, uh, two, two different types of athletes. And when you compare him to anyone else in Serbia, that's not the take away from anyone else in Serbia, but he is a world-class player. Um, even at the stages, he's in phenomenal shape. So he is a beast. He's a beast. I mean,
00:08:26
Speaker
When he takes a ball, it looks like a hockey puck going 102 miles an hour. And it's just amazing. But he really, his presence out there, you just feel it. I mean, the other team, that's true guys looking at him at all times, which opens up other spaces for us. And in the locker room, he's always there with the guys. It's not like he's quiet, he leaves.
00:08:49
Speaker
He goes and does his own thing, except for he's speaking with a lot of the young players. He's getting together with young players at the practice or for dinner, and it's nice to see. One example, and I'm going to tell you this really speaks volumes about Roger Mangalon and his commitment to Spall. Everyone, first of all, said, oh, when the roster's up, he was on a leaf. There's no way he's doing that. He just made a commitment to us. He wants to show he's still a world-class player.
00:09:16
Speaker
And there's been no indication that the people speculated because he was very close with Danelli. Look, I knew Raja when we were in Rome together, but not the way him and Danelli played together. And he's very close, very close to Danelli. But when we made the change, it didn't close my mind that Raja may also want to leave after two games. But everyone had written it, almost like it was a fated complete.
00:09:40
Speaker
He got so angry with that. And then one of his social media posts, he says, great to see how the journalists are dictating, you know, my future, my life's idiots. He basically called him like idiots, really. And so I was like, okay, that's a good sign. And then what happened, the week that Nelly was terminated, he had given the players Monday and Tuesday off because he had a different commitment. So Massimo came in and, you know, we finished signing him on Monday and he wants to have a practice on Tuesday.
00:10:10
Speaker
Raja went home to Callery where he lives with his family, his wife, and two children. And he had Tuesday off. He was coming back once in the morning for the once afternoon practice.
00:10:22
Speaker
We called him, our sporting director, Fabio Lupo called him and said, listen, you had already made plans, you're already home in Cali, you got a part of the country. You have permission to miss Tuesday's practice, tell them
Spal's Ambitions and Goals
00:10:34
Speaker
the family, and come Wednesday's plan. We know you bought a ticket, we know you're with your kids and whatnot. And he said, thank you, but I'm getting on a plane tonight, bought my own ticket. He bought his own plane ticket, he got on a commercial plane, and got back to a Ferrara Monday night for a Tuesday morning practice.
00:10:50
Speaker
I've said some of the volumes to me about Angelon's commitment. He's a special player and he doesn't feel that, it just feels different. Yeah, of course. And then that's exactly what I wanted to ask, but you already said it. So we can disperse all these reports that he wants to leave that because De Rossi left. I mean, he got really angry with that as well. So, yeah, that's great. Because there's a lot of rumors flying about. You know, a lot of times. Sockingly, some people in the media have it wrong.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, never happened before. I mean, he did come and replace Salvatore Esposito, who you sold to Spezia as a player, that I actually, I really rate, and you know that we've spoken about it. I think he could really come. He's been one of the stars of the Italy Under 21 team, and he's been capped already by, and he was capped by Mancini when he was at Spal in the Serie B, which is really
00:11:42
Speaker
you know, not to you, not a usual thing that happens. How far do you think that Salvatore Esposito can go in the game? It really depends on Salvatore Esposito. Honestly, since he's left, we've had an improvement in that position with Mateo Proffi. And I'll just be blunt with you, Salvatore Esposito was not evaluated a lot.
00:12:08
Speaker
He still needs to grow up. He still needs to become more mature. The players weren't enthralled with him. He did some things that they deemed to be selfish. They deemed it not me. I'm not a player, both on the field and off. And look, I wish him the best. I hope he's a good kid, but he does need to become more mature. And I think when you're so young,
00:12:38
Speaker
Having some humility is not a bad thing when you're talented. I think Salvatore already thinks he's a
00:12:47
Speaker
AC Milan level player or a manager level player, and I think he's got a way to go for that. So for us, it was the right move. We got a lot of money for him, much more than people said I was going to get, but I got him on that negotiation. I put on my lawyer hat and played a little hard ball. His agent had an old man with me, and it's too bad. Of course, his agent had to give up some of his syndrome, but that was what I demanded. That's what I wanted him.
00:13:10
Speaker
No, his clients only focus seemed to be to play for Syria. He wanted to play in Syria, some hell of a hot water. Well, you know, he's there now, but barely hanging on. Um, no expects here. So we'll see what happens in the future. Um, so I was, I was your judgment on, on exactly how good he becomes, but I hope he becomes as good as he can become. Let's put it that way. I'll say that because I, I do like him as a, as a person.
00:13:34
Speaker
I really like him as a player as well. But it's funny you mentioned that humility part, because that's something that the brother, Sebastiano, has been accused of as well, like problems in the drum and rock as well. Yep. I've seen it. I've seen it. I mean, I guess players work. And to say a lot of the players came up to me after he left and said, you know, thank you. And I was shocked by it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's about it's about
00:14:03
Speaker
having someone that they respect and it's strange. He was given a captain's armband this year, and the player still can't figure out how that happened. It wasn't by player vote. That seems to be a mystery for his fall, but we'll leave that for another day.
Napoli's Performance and Prospects
00:14:24
Speaker
I don't know if he, in one regard, it was changing for the better. He took on some responsibility, but in the other way, it sort of alienated him from his guys in the locker room. So there we are. And we move on. Skip Mateo Prossi, I tell him, you watch him, watch him. And next year when we're talking to the area, I remember you mentioned him. So watch this.
00:14:48
Speaker
That's true. I got to give you a huge credit for that because you were the first to really hype up Lorenzo Colombo.
00:14:55
Speaker
And I am in love with what I've seen in a lecture. This kid, I don't understand why Milan don't just bring him in because next season they have to bring him in. He is ready. He will. He's ready. He's ready. I mean, I loved him last year. We took him on loan from my friend, Ricky Massara and Paul Londini. And, uh, you know, we, we, I just, I knew this kid's talent is, is different level stuff. And he was the only kid he'd like 19 or
00:15:19
Speaker
last year 20. I mean, he's, uh, you know, he's, he's got, I've seen what he's doing in Syria this year. He's, he's a, I think he's a national team player, but actually, and, um, no, he's a good kid too. That's, you know, that's someone who never
00:15:36
Speaker
others a dramatic word. There's always just seriousness. He works so hard and I'm so happy for him. I'm in touch with him still on occasion. I actually tried to get him back to spa this year and he was like, I think I'm going to be in the Serie A team. We thought, oh, if that doesn't work out, we should come back again. But clearly he's a Serie A level player right now.
00:15:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, he is. And he, you know, the, you see these, he's a big guy. He's a physical guy. He's a strong guy, but he's incredibly technical and quick with the ball. Like he does these things, you know, people in Italy have compared Skamaka to Ibrahimovic. I think Colombo is more than the similar to Ibrahimovic. If you look at the, you know, cause big guys are usually not that technical. Colombo is far more technical in my opinion than Skamaka is. And I love Skamaka. Don't get me wrong.
00:16:27
Speaker
But I think the comparison with Ibrahimovic is more, I think Colombo is more similar in that regard if we're talking big guy and technical ability in the Skamakas. I agree with you.
00:16:40
Speaker
is only something special, that's for sure. Well, speaking of players again, you brought in our good friend Beppe Rossi back to Spal for a second, what's happening there? We all love Giuseppe, he's a fantastic talent, fantastic guy, he's been so unlucky with injuries.
00:16:59
Speaker
Is it more of a role to kind of be the father of the team? Or what's the thing? No, no, no, no, no. I mean, obviously that comes with the territory, but we have enough fathers. You know, Andrea Lamonti is a phenomenal human being.
00:17:14
Speaker
and recall Poncho the same, our goalie. You know, Mangalon is someone who's taken on that role. And of course Giuseppe would fit into that category as well, but Giuseppe scored three of the most important goals for us last year, like all crucial, crucial goals.
00:17:34
Speaker
He can't play 90 minutes, obviously. At this point, he's still recovered. And he had another knee surgery last year. He was, you know, the season ended in a game against Russia where he had another knee surgery. So, you know, he's behind the eight ball enforcement for this poor guy. But he's there. He was assigned because we know that in the last 20 minutes of any game, he could change it. And, you know, that's what we're, that's what we're counting on with him, really. I get that. And he's, he's really a fantastic, um,
00:18:02
Speaker
character, as you said, I mean, the leader on and off the pitch as well. I mean, speaking of that, you're in the, you know, you're in the religations on the city of B. I agree. I don't think you've got any business doing there. So how confident are you that not only to avoid relegation, but maybe even getting to get into one of those city, our playoff spots? I'm not done with that thought. I know people like, oh, no, you have to just say we're looking for salvation. Oh, you can't talk like that. You have to always say salvation is the role to go. I am so not into that.
00:18:33
Speaker
Am I gonna say bullshit on a podcast or not? Yes, you can. I can. I am so not into that bullshit line of thinking that they do here in Italy, which is like, oh, you always have to say, you know, we're gonna, we're just striving to survive. And no, it's, it's such crap. It's living in the negative. I don't live in the negative. I live in the positive. I set my big goals for myself and I do what I need to do to achieve them. And the only two things I can do to affect my, whether I achieve my goals is my effort and my attitude. Those are only two things.
00:19:02
Speaker
If you set the bar at salvation, which is a joke, especially with this roster, first of all, the message to your team is pretty damn clear. You guys aren't good enough. Don't even think about trying to rip off, you know, five, six, seven, 10 wins in a row. Don't even think about that. Just hang on. Just try to hang on. That's what the message is. And that's the bar that you're setting.
00:19:24
Speaker
And I get crazy. People are banned from using that word. Just so you understand. You won't find anything anywhere in the process. And while we're still going to salvation.
00:19:35
Speaker
look, we have to be realistic where we are, but we still have 13 games left. It's not like we have six games left and we're 10 points out of the playoff spot. I mean, the category is very short. The category is very short, I should say. There's so many teams all bunched up together. Right now, we're in the top of the bottom three, but that's not going to remain. And I firmly believe we should rip off a streak of wins
00:20:02
Speaker
with this roster and and go forward. Look, we have two of our two jumps games coming up right now against the first and second place team consecutively. OK, genuine frozen on it. Alright, we'll be open. You know, we'll play those games as hard as we can, and you know why we pull out a one in one of those games? It's going to change our season. We still have a lot of it left, and I still intend on, you know, making sure that we all are striving for the same goals, and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But we're not, you know,
00:20:33
Speaker
close to being in a position to say, let's just stay in Syria B this year. With this roster, we can do some scary look. I'll point out Shoot to Roll, one of the great stories, by the way, in Syria B. They have a Syria C roster. Literally, their roster basically is the same one from last year, okay, for the most part. You know, a coach who's, I like him a lot, but it's not one anything necessarily, right? Beasley's a terrific motivator.
00:21:01
Speaker
But those guys went 11 games without losing. I mean, the first six games of the season, they were like, in this place, they were almost relegated already. They hadn't had a win. Then they pulled off like a streak, a crazy streak. And they did it why? Not because they don't have Roger Nagelon or Vasquez that Parma has or La Padula that General has or anyone else.
00:21:25
Speaker
or coda right they have what they have is a bunch of guys who are angry a bunch of guys who are hungry a bunch of guys who are having chip on their shoulder they play with a chip on their shoulder and honestly give me character and grit any day over talent any day and that's what we have you sure do
00:21:46
Speaker
Um, let's, uh, speaking of the Syria, let's look up a little bit, uh, at them. I mean, not police run. We have to start there. It's been incredible. I mean, what's going on there.
00:22:00
Speaker
the coach is amazing, you know De Laurentiis is a friend of mine Aurelio and I was with him this summer we had our training summer training in the same like five minutes from each other so I went over there I bludged him and we played Calcetto the little table football thing you played foosball with him I remember you sharing that
00:22:22
Speaker
Please tell me you bought me that one ball. Yeah It was in the papers that I want but yeah, that's the only time spoils me Napoli right now, but but anyway So so Here's the deal with that You know, we talked and he was getting oh my god the roughest time from the fans in the summer I mean that was with him kissing Adam and
00:22:51
Speaker
Chanting against them because they lost two major players in Sydney and the other people Yeah, and they were like really I mean, I think you should basically put a mural or a statue or something up of the Lorentis now because What he's done is it's amazing. I mean that that team is
00:23:12
Speaker
is, it's incredible. And it's, again, they don't have on paper, maybe, New York, South of Boston, Syria. But my God, look at them. They ran away with this thing. It's over. It's over. I mean, you know, I'm happy for the people in Napoli, for the Southerners among us, you know, that they have a Scudetto coming. It's about time.
00:23:33
Speaker
It is. But I mean, there's also I mean, I I tipped them to to be the team in the city that go the farthest in the Champions League before the season started. And now after the group stage, I said, look, I'm elevating them to dark horse status to win the whole damn thing. Do you think they can actually do the double?
00:23:56
Speaker
I do. That's insanely difficult, insanely difficult. But this is a different team. That Napoli team is a special team this year. It's just one of those moments in time where everything seems to come together for a team. When you have something like that, there's nothing that's impossible. They, to me, seem like really a team of destiny this year. I think
00:24:26
Speaker
I think they can do something special, I really do. To me, they're going to be in a position where they have a shot to be, what, the last four. And I think they're in pretty good shape as far as that's concerned, right? And who knows? I mean, it's going to be really, really interesting. And I wouldn't rule them out against any team that's going to be left, I mean, against Ray Al and any of these other teams. I just wouldn't rule them out because they
00:24:54
Speaker
They're special, obviously. This is a special year for those guys. And let's see what's going to happen.
European Super League Discussion
00:25:01
Speaker
For sure. I mean, speaking of Aurelio de Laurentiis, I mean, one of the things that he's always done is and being very criticized for by the fans, despite the fact that he ever since returning to the Serie A, he's from, you know, he's always had them in European playing European football since returning to the Serie A under him.
00:25:18
Speaker
What he's done is always this notion of financial sustainability and long term stability, not selling players and getting rid of them as they get older and rejuvenating and lowering the wage bill. And that's not contradictory to sporting success. Surely this what's happening now, it shows it proves him right, doesn't it?
00:25:39
Speaker
It sure does. I'd love to see that. I mean, I'm a big fan of the, let's call it the Accolata bottle. And I try to, you know, there's no way, you know, I'm losing, you know, 18, you know, 20 million a season. So it'd be like something to do. I mean,
00:25:57
Speaker
you know, setting records right there and it's not going to happen. I mean, Siri B's become a different place. You know, I've had some of the billionaires on the Siri B teams when I was the person who blown ya. It wasn't quite the case. Okay. So, um, so, you know, look, I love that that model. It's like, well, I'm going to have to do that. I mean, I don't care how much money you have. You cannot sustain
00:26:23
Speaker
losing 100 plus million a year. It's reckless. It's not sustainable. And it doesn't ever seem to really work, by the way. So I don't know. I don't know. That's why I'm really pulling for Aurelio and Napoli.
00:26:44
Speaker
I'm so glad you mentioned Juventus because I wanted to ask you about that because they have four or five ongoing investigations. One is criminal and four are civil by the Italian FA.
00:26:56
Speaker
The capital gains part especially seems a little bit arbitrary and difficult to impose given that there's no really rules or regulations governing the value of a player. I wanted to hear if you know you're one of the people don't know Joe is one of the best criminal trial lawyers in the world. So from a legal point of view, do you like do you agree with that? Don't you think it seems a little bit weird that they went after them for that when there's no really rules and regulations governing that?
00:27:22
Speaker
Yeah, it seems like they just wanted to make a statement. It looks like the old, the old guard is gone now. And, you know, it was the way of sort of sending them off, like the family and, and, you know, they're gone. It's just over. I mean, they went from the top of the world to the tie in football. I mean, they always were synonymous with, with Cal show. I mean, that was the first family. And, and it's just like, they got jettisoned and I think they are making an example. I don't, I don't, I don't,
00:27:50
Speaker
think what's happened to them is warranted based on their actions. But I think we're in a different world now. And here's my issue with Italian football.
Juventus' Legal Troubles and Fairness in Football Governance
00:28:04
Speaker
As long as things are justice, both on the field and off the field, are handed out equally to all, I'm OK with that. I have an issue sometimes that doesn't seem to happen.
00:28:18
Speaker
I just want to be clear that there should be fairness across the board when you're dealing with Juventus versus Swolo. And Juventus was someone for years, people said the referees were in their pockets, and the league was in their pockets, and they, they used to say they wouldn't do that though, because everyone, well, we're not there anymore, clearly. But the pendulum shouldn't swing too far the other way either.
00:28:47
Speaker
Um, so it's just, you know, that's my one issue with, with football. Like, for example, I'm not going to complain, but I'll just point that clap and sure be, you know, Barry and Palermo involved in a lot of teams have eight penalty shots this year.
00:29:02
Speaker
um spot zero so i'll point that we haven't been awarded one belly shot i've never had this happen to me i'm like okay all right i'm sure it's a coincidence i'm sure it's just coincidence but no i mean zero we did get we did get one recording all year i mean a couple times where the defenders on the lt caught the ball like they were playing baseball
00:29:22
Speaker
But somehow it was being insignificant or unintentional or whatever, but you know, you got me open attention now. Next question. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I don't want to get you in trouble. Speaking of financial sustainability and finance and football, the biggest talking point in all of football right now is the European Super League.
00:29:46
Speaker
and the talking points around that and and and how that you know then the the p.r. company eight twenty two are the ones who are kind of. No one really knows what their role is and they refuse to answer but basically it seems like they have been hired as a p.r. company to help market this this european super league before the legality of it is decided by the european court of justice.
00:30:06
Speaker
I mean, I wanted to just basically start there. Do you support this kind of European Super League, the idea that it exists now in terms of taking UEFA out of, you know, taking it out of UEFA's hands, putting it into the club's hands, because they say they take all the risk. And so they should have also more of the reward and have more to say. What's your thoughts? No, no, no, I mean, you might as well just just just now I'm not going to just just make make
00:30:30
Speaker
world culture with 10 team lead and cancel the rest of it. I mean, how does how does other teams compete with that? I mean, you know, let's see if there's something beautiful about about parody and competition, right? I mean, Western Serbia, for example, every game on the last game of the season, 30th week, every game except one game, counted for something either promotion, relegation, playoff or play out.
00:30:56
Speaker
So it's, you know, to me, you know, when we're going to start putting super leagues together for only the elite teams that have the most money and then they get richer on top of being rich, you know, and how do they compete? Go back and compete with Spezia, you know, the next week. I mean, come on, it's, it's, it's, we might as well just, just, just, you know, sort of forget football as we know it. I mean, Adriana Galliani, a dear friend of mine, said something really funny yesterday about this. He said, there already is a super league. It's called the Premier League.
00:31:26
Speaker
When you look at their transfer market spending compared to the rest of the world, I mean, he's right. He's right. I mean, you can't compete with any of those teams like that, but a Super League itself would really, you know,
00:31:39
Speaker
craft the model of world football as we know it. I don't think that benefits everyone. Sure, it may benefit the great teams, the big teams, Juventus and Barcelona and all these other teams, but it's not. I think most of the fans don't want. I know the Liverpool fans who, my son-in-law is from Liverpool and he's a big Liverpool fan. He was telling me they were protesting, they were going crazy. What they would say is to benefit personally, but that's not
00:32:08
Speaker
what it's all about, you know, it's about being able to play in a league that has competition. And, you know, why would you want to go to a game where your team is before the first, you know, whistle blows, you know, you have three points in your pocket, you know, period. What about what about the counter argument, though, that exactly what Galiani said? You know, he also said we need a Brexit in football. And he said, you know, the Premier League, he's absolutely right, by the way, that the other Europeans that they are the they are the financial super league.
00:32:38
Speaker
And if you were to create a European Super League, that wasn't a closed off league, but was kind of just replaced the Champions League and took it out of UEFA's hand. I mean, especially with Premier League clubs, you know, having state nation states like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE. I mean, would you be open to a European Super League based on those premises that is like based on, you know, that is not a closed off league in order to counter the Premier League?
00:33:06
Speaker
where you mean other teams can get in it by merit? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, look, still know for me, I like football the way it is. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to this stuff. I, there's some, I've real problems with a lot of football, but that's really, you know, how about this? Look at their model, best set their model and do it the way they've done it.
00:33:29
Speaker
I mean, why can't Germany or Italy or other major countries do what the Premier League has done? I mean, they've done phenomenal. And they've done phenomenal because they've been smart about it, because they have revenue streams that no one else thinks about. And they've done it well, and they've done it right. And they have the ability to spend stupid money. So I'm just not a fan of that. I mean, I'm a traditionalist, as I said.
00:33:55
Speaker
I think there are a lot of problems in football and money corrupts and we know that. I mean, I think we saw there was a World Cup in Qatar. How ridiculous was that in the middle of Christmas and the season and all this stuff, you know, a World Cup in the country that summer is in December and screw up every league. I mean, that wasn't because everyone thought, oh, Qatar could be a great, it was a course of money, money, money, money, right? So I just think
00:34:21
Speaker
These ideas are all punished on more money, more money, more money. We have to get back to the nuts and bolts, a little bit of football.
00:34:30
Speaker
Speaking of good investments, would you ever consider investing in the Premier League in the future? And given that your son-in-law, you said, is a Liverpool fan, would you ever consider doing him a favour? No, I wouldn't, because I'm a big Newcastle fan. I was my team's kid. I like the shirts, I like the beer. And so, you know, I became a Newcastle fan.
00:34:52
Speaker
I mean, and they've never won. So no one's going to me for, cause they've never won anything. So, you know, although, although that, that time just seems to be changing. They had some serious, oh, you know, owners with some serious financial where look, there was a point in time when I was looking at, um,
Premier League Investments
00:35:12
Speaker
a Premier League team, okay? Way back when, in the beginning of my, you know, in the Rome era where I had groups of investors that were looking to come into European football, I was sort of leading that way, and we were looking at it, but I will tell you, it's almost untouchable now. It's not quite like buying an NFL team, but it's, you know, like buying an NHL team for sure. I mean, you know, you talk about
00:35:38
Speaker
numbers that are off the charts. I mean, we're approaching a billion plus for almost any Premier League team, and that's a different level of money. I mean, we're approaching a billion plus for almost any Premier League team, and that's a different level of money. I don't think that's a different type of person. That's for the select few. That's for the NFL team. There's only
00:35:59
Speaker
you know, 50 people maybe in the United States that could buy or own an NFL team alone. And, you know, it's a different club. And that's, you know, but listen again, I applaud them. I don't put grudge on them. I applaud them. They've done something that, you know, you really have to say, wow, patch off me because they, you know, they did it the right way and then people were jealous and whatever. But again, they did it with, you know,
00:36:28
Speaker
some really intelligent financial planning and some real elbow grease. They've worked and worked and worked and they've become as successful as they are. That's sad to me because 25 years ago, the world looked up to was
00:36:51
Speaker
just, we've gone away from that. Another thing I love about the Premier League, I mean, I've watched Premier League games 10 times already, a tired football game, for pure pleasure because they let you play. You know, I mean, you could bump into a guy and he doesn't collapse like he was shot by an AK-47.
00:37:07
Speaker
from a mile away. This has become such a pandemic in Italian football. It's unbelievable to me to see what I'm seeing, but it's crazy. Everyone now seems to be in this game where you get bumped.
00:37:24
Speaker
And you just go flying. And I have videos of videos of compilation of 30 plays where guys just collapse from being bumped with their elbow into the back. And they collapse, breathing in pain, arm up in the air as if they're drowning, and help me, help me. But two seconds later, after they either don't get the foul or get the foul, or the play moves on, they're up and running like a gazelle again. One guy got knocked in the back, and he grabbed his face.
00:37:54
Speaker
I was like, wait, what are you doing? You can't take the right acting classes for that. He got bumped in the back and he grabs his nose like he got hit in the nose. I mean, it's sticking to me. And the real pandemic in Italian football, and I'm sure this is going to make sense, but we do have a crisis in Italian football. It's the cramp crisis in Italian football. The cramp crisis is devouring Italian football. And you know what the cramp crisis is, right? I mean, the last 10 minutes of every game,
00:38:22
Speaker
There's this medical phenomenon that only happens really in Italy. And the last 10 minutes of every game, the team that's winning by a goal or two goals, they have this medical phenomenon that overcomes them when they get cramps. The whole damn team gets cramps. But it only happens to the winning teams. It's horrible. Maybe it's going to be euphoria inside their body that gets them cramps. Because if anyone's losing 1-0 in the last 10 minutes, nobody gets a cramp.
00:38:46
Speaker
If you go to camp, you dread your sort of body off the field and you put someone else in. But no, I'm God. You could, dollars to donors. It's the safest bet you can make in sports. If a team is winning one nothing and you're past the 80th minute, the team winning one nothing is going to have at least two
00:39:03
Speaker
two guys that go down with the cramp that everyone has to come and stretch their leg over their head and the rest of the stuff and the trainers are coming out spring some mystery white stuff on their leg. Like that's going to solve it. It's, it's, it's, it's okay. So we're joking about it, but to me it's outrageous. And I swear when I said my team do it, if they do it, I feel the same way. It's just, it's so it's just, well, let's call it what is cheating. The last time in suburbia, any close game in Italian football, you play like four, you play like four if you're lucky.
00:39:33
Speaker
No, it's yeah, that's something that I think, I mean, we're seeing more, I think, from the Serie A, especially kind of moving to away from that and letting them play a referees like Dauvery and etc. But you're right. I mean, if you compare them, it's in, it's incomparable.
00:39:46
Speaker
It's just comparable. It really is. And I think to find that right balance between what is a foul and what isn't and flow and stuff, I think that's something that Italian football should really work on as well. I agree with you on that. Before we let you go, just a few final questions.
Legal Representation of Donald Trump
00:40:03
Speaker
Off the pitch, you've taken on a pretty famous client. Your clients are famous in the United States.
00:40:11
Speaker
But a certain Donald Trump is now your client. I know you can't talk about, of course, client privilege and all that, but I do want to know if you've invited him to watch a Spall game. He's a little busy right now, wanting a second presidential campaign, so I don't think he's going to be at Péras anytime soon. But yeah, I'm representing him in a couple cases I think are really
00:40:33
Speaker
good case for me. I'm not involved in stolen election cases or anything like that. It's not the political stuff I'm working on. It's the litigation where I think the legal system is being used as political weapons against a guy that
00:40:49
Speaker
you know, some people don't like and that, that, that sickens me. Um, it makes the, the legal system feel cheap and tawdry and not really what it was meant for. And when I see, you know, people going after anyone, I don't care if you like them or don't like them.
00:41:06
Speaker
because of political views and trying to give me a legal system to make sure they get something on them. It doesn't make me feel good about the legal system. And so I gladly jumped in to represent the president, who is one of the most charming guys I've met in person. I didn't know him well. I mean, I've spoken with him in the past over the years with New Yorkers. But when I spent a few days down in Mar-a-Lago with him and really got to understand the cases I'm working on, I felt very, very strong about representing him and very proud to represent him, obviously.
00:41:36
Speaker
Um, um, so, you know, I, I, you know, my, does he, does he even like soccer? I'm sure he knows what it is, but do you know if he has any interest in soccer at all? Has he expressed anything like that? You know, he does. He likes a little bit, but he's not, he, I mean, obviously golf is much more his passion. Um, I wouldn't say he is, is, is an avid soccer, um, cultural fan by, by a stretch of the imagination. But, you know, he is someone who, who at least, um,
00:42:04
Speaker
Understand sports and does like sports. So we've had brief discussions, but he knows I'm here. I speak them on the day from Italy. He called me once when I was in the stadium. So it was sort of like, you know, but but I wouldn't say you're in the city. You're at the stadium. Spiles playing a city game and the former president Donald Trump calls you.
00:42:28
Speaker
right after we scored a goal. I mean, we scored like four goals all year. So God forbid I get to enjoy one of our goals for more than 35 seconds, but that's okay. You know, it's a part of the course when you're representing someone like the president and he calls, you got to ask those calls. Yeah.
00:42:51
Speaker
He could be president again when the World Cup comes to America in 2026. I mean, there's an election in 2024. Anyone is stupid enough to rule him out, because honestly, I never told you to win the first election.
00:43:05
Speaker
and you know there he was so you just you just don't know um you just don't know and uh with him it's something again that's always he's like a different level when it comes to surprises and he's still got a massive you know support base out there but we'll see what happens like this
Conclusion and Teaser
00:43:24
Speaker
political system in our countries, not a place that I really am enjoying right now. So we'll see. You just never know. There's a lot of dissatisfaction, dissatisfaction to lead to surprises and elections as it did, you know, several years back when he became president of the United States without any political experience. No, no, of course, of course. But
00:43:44
Speaker
I mean, you know, like you said, he's he could surprise you. And, you know, given that my team, the club that I support in our Chinese companies, they're not doing too well with the club. They're not they're struggling financially. And I mean, he could be a maverick. Maybe you can put in a good word word and together we can make integrate again. How about that? You know, if I challenged him and said, you know,
00:44:07
Speaker
You could probably never win anything with it, or he'd probably then buy into it if your man was wrong. So that's maybe the move. That's gonna be the move. Joe, you got a job. You got a job to do now. Thank you so much for your time. I know how busy you are. Thank you always for being so generous with your time and coming on. I really enjoyed being with you and talking to you. These questions always ask the best questions. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure, whenever you want.
00:44:34
Speaker
Thank you. And everyone else will be back on Monday for a full review episode. Until next time, take care of each other and ciao ciao.