Transcript
Speaker: What's the air? Who's the air? And why
Speaker: Welcome to Mythic Mirror, the podcast for lovers of myth and fantasy who want to live magical, fulfilling lives. I'm your host, Mary C. Kehoe. And I'm your co-host, Carolina Carter. And we are talking about Theft of Swords by Michael J. Sullivan.
Speaker: All right, so we gave you the a little beginning teaser. So if you haven't read the book, go watch that episode and read the book and then come back to this one because we will be spoiling and chatting and guessing hypothesizing. Before you go, i would tell you about this book.
Speaker: Definitely read it. The whole time I was reading it, I had this feeling of joy of just like, I can't believe I haven't read this yet. but I can't believe this is my first time reading this book. It is so good. it is so, you will absolutely enjoy it.
Speaker: So go read it if you haven't. You can tell it is written by someone who has loved this genre for a long time. it's very um It is a perfect specimen of its kind, so to speak.
Speaker: How come you never say that about me? If I could figure out the kind that you are, I'd know just how perfect a specimen you are. Thank you. You're welcome On that note, I believe I told you I needed to start with a rant. This book doesn't have anything to do with this. This has nothing to do with this book. And Mary, you can cut this out, but I do need to talk to you about it because Mary is a fine actress. I don't know if any of you know that. I am a terrible actor, but in that I really know the difference between good acting and bad acting. It's actually a gift. I i feel very blessed to have my gift.
Speaker: um Okay. I hate it in movies. when they have to explain something, and the whole movie hinges on this explanation. And I've been seeing it a lot lately.
Speaker: And to give you an example, let's say the movie's called The Meredith Effect. At some point in the movie, some character's going to be like, have you ever heard of The Meredith Effect?
Speaker: It's when a puzzle piece falls and it connects with another puzzle piece and that creates this rolling effect where it puzzle pieces just start fitting together and they fall into place and in the end you have this picture, but it's not what it was intended to be.
Speaker: Sometimes I think about that and when I was little and how maybe I, all my pieces have fallen together in a way and I'm not what I'm supposed to be. But maybe that's okay.
Speaker: it's so much. I've seen that movie. I I am actually, i just now broke out in a sweat because of how much I hated that and I hate it when movies do it. So if you're writing a movie, bless you.
Speaker: I love movies. Take that scene out. If you need, if the whole thing hinges on explaining this one thing, take it out. Or just assume your audience is smart enough to know what it is and they'll get the metaphor.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Don't put it into the dialogue. Put it into little moments all the way through so that the hinging happens inside the viewer's mind.
Speaker: which does remind me of this book because he does that. There is so much history. There is so much lore. There is so there are so many characters. And thats i was starting to panic, and then I realized that he's doing it in this way where you don't have to like write it down and be like really sure to remember. He's spoon-feeding it to you as you go. So like you do, by the end, have the big picture, and I loved that.
Speaker: He's allowing himself to take his time with... you know He knows this is a trilogy within a whole world of books, and you can feel that in the way he deals with characters where You get to know, like we felt like I thought the monk in the beginning was going to be a part of the rest of the book, but we never see him again. But he's referenced again a few times and you feel like he's still, he you know, he's going to be important in the series. you don't feel like you've wasted your time or, you know, it'll never come back.
Speaker: Right. The other two characters that I thought were going to be really important were the Elenda and her dad. Elenda's letters and her dad. That this whole thing starts with her paying Royce and Hadrian to get these letters back. That they were initially paid to steal in the first place. um I really thought that was going to be like a huge part of this book. And then you just never hear from those two characters again.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see if those two come back in. Mm-hmm. Speaking of characters, shall we talk about something that I loved? The complexity of character that we have.
Speaker: I know who you're going to say. Who am I going to say? Say it. I have a few. I have the Deacon Thomas. Yes. I have Magnus.
Speaker: And I have Ezra Hodden as well. yeah Yes, I know. Okay. would you So they're all kind of complex in a different way. Let's start with the Thomas, ah the deacon Thomas.
Speaker: Yes. So first off, he's to he's like, you you just like, oh God, okay. You're a low level psychophant, you know, out there for your own power and luxury. You found a little fiefdom in or, you know, that will, you're like pleasant, but in it for yourself. You're selfish. Okay. you I got it. That's who you are. That's who you'll always be.
Speaker: But then he surprises you. hey And i was so sure that when, you know, he promises, um he promises Theron.
Speaker: that he'll he'll take care of Thrace in the manor house when she's surrounded by all the church people and nobles and it's terrible. yeah ah and he brought and And I'm like, oh yeah, sure. He's just going to go back to the manor. He's just going to be busy kissing up to, you know, trying to get a cushy place in this order.
Speaker: And that's not what he does. He really does help Thrace. And, you know, during the attack, he's trying to save Thrace and the princess. I had to reread that part because i was like, who is pulling them to the cellar? Like, that doesn't make any sense. like And it it it taught it caught me totally off guard. And then when he speaks to the
Speaker: obviously that's not somebody who has no courage. Right. Yeah. He's growing before our eyes. I know. And stands up for Thrace. And you you also see that he truly believes in the church because he thought the contest was real and Thrace killed the monster. So he's like, she is the heir of Novaram. Like he's certain of it. And you're like, oh, you, you're not like a bad person. You're just yeah a believer, which unless you have more to say about him, i have one more person to add to your list.
Speaker: go ahead And that is Salder
Speaker: because of his, when you see into his mind, the chapter from his perspective and what he wants, what his ultimate goal is, is peace. And he wants to feed the poor and, and give them shelter. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: ands And yes, and in a way where the end must justify the means and he does not care who is killed to achieve this peace. But it was shocking to me that insight that he wasn't just ultimately after power. He truly wants peace.
Speaker: It is interesting because it is it's a skewed view of how to like, yes, prosperity. Without freedom.
Speaker: And that's what he's willing to give up. and But he's willing to give people the illusion of freedom. Like he doesn't want to enslave mankind. Right. And he does want to help them. Well, because that's work.
Speaker: Like the way he uses the people, like the way that he is talking about having Thrace be the empress at the end and using the people to, and you see how this is how the church has survived this long and is the you know the the power behind all these thrones because they use people's own interests and just manipulate events so that you know this uprising that naturally happened in support of the Empress is exactly what they needed to take over.
Speaker: But yes, he is- it could be worse. It could be worse. And he goes from grandfatherly to sociopath pretty quick. That did turn my stomach. And also. And, and when he escaped the fire, the coach didn't stop for anyone.
Speaker: He just had him whip the horses and get out. He didn't save anyone. I'm not saying he's a good person. i would But that's why I was surprised at the insight that he does seemingly want things that could be objectively described as good.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Shocking. ah Shocking even. All right. And now let's get to Magnus. Yeah. Who is the dwarf? we know from the first part of the book who killed the king and tried to kill the princess and Royce. And now he's, you know, like one of the gang.
Speaker: know. It's really adorable if we're being honest. and But I do love that Royce finally had this conversation with him and it happens right at the end. And, you know, cause he's been saying,
Speaker: I'm just a professional. i was hired for a job. It wasn't personal. you know I shouldn't have killed the king. It was added on to my job. you know They wouldn't pay me otherwise. And you know if I didn't do it, someone else would. And and he's defending himself on and on. And and Royce says, i don't care that you killed the king. I'm not i'm not angry about it. I don't even care. i don't even care that you what you did to the tower shutting the door on me.
Speaker: That was your mistake. And that was the thing that had been bothering me because I'm like, yeah, okay, professional, professional. But he shut the door. Like they had escaped his trap and he shut the door on them.
Speaker: ah so So that was the one thing I was still, I couldn't trust him about. Yeah. and And there's no trust there. But there's a darling camaraderie.
Speaker: And I do, i really love Hadrian. And it's funny because when we started, just in my mind as I was reading, Royce was kind of like the main character in my mind.
Speaker: And Hadrian was kind of like his funny sidekick. And that has shifted as I've read this book where um i think also too for some reason i thought hadrian was old and i don't know why like really old but just like older like i thought royce was probably like young and hadrian was just like maybe at the end of his golden years which is not the case at all i know it's so bizarre and at one point i maybe i'm skipping ahead but we can get back to
Speaker: We'll just let this flow naturally, Carolina. Just stop trying to control it. It's a beautiful thing and you just let it flow like a river. I thought Royce. Okay, well, I was right about one thing. Royce is part elf.
Speaker: I said it? Yes. I was right. i was wrong in thinking later. I thought Royce was going to be the heir Novoron. That he was going to unite the elven and human kingdoms and be the heir. And I...
Speaker: Then then i was suspicious about Hadrian when they started saying, oh, he knows the Teschler sword moves that nobody knows. And was like, well, that's suspicious. Do you think he is the heir or do you think he is descended from the bodyguard, for lack of a better term word?
Speaker: term word I think he's the like the bodyguard heir because... Why else would Ezra Haddon, there we go. Ezra Haddon. Why else would Ezra Haddon leave him in the enemy camp and like not be like, he might be alive. You go check. He might be dead and that'll be sad. But you know, he will have, like if he thought the might've just died. Yeah.
Speaker: It seems like he'd want to go personally check instead of. Yeah. And it seems like maybe he said he was going to go get the air. Get the air. Yeah. let's see So then the question is, so Royce after that said something about, yeah, Royce said something about funny. I always thought it would be some like, you know, random person I didn't know. Right.
Speaker: So the question is, did he know both the heir and the bodyguard heir? Yes, which means we have met, we have met them. What is the but coincidence?
Speaker: I mean, what are the odds? They're pretty good. They are really good when you're reading a story. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if we've met there yet. And in case you are listening to this without reading just for funsies, I will tell you the wizard Ezra Haddon gave the heir of Novoron a medallion and his bodyguard a medallion so that he could find them someday, not realizing he would be in prison for 900 years. Now they he was still able to find them through these medallions. we know that
Speaker: yeah We know that Hadrian is at least the bodyguard. Could be the heir. We don't think so. um Descendant. Because he has one of the medallions.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And the fighting styles that have been lost for ages. 900 years. 900 years, yeah, to be exact. but But you were saying that Ezra Hodden was a complex character. And I'm curious to hear about that.
Speaker: So only because of the conversation with the princess, whose name is escaping me in this moment. Arista. That's with an A. Thank you. Arista.
Speaker: So when she asks, did you like manufacture my father's death? Did you coordinate it? Did you know going happen? Did you do it on purpose? And he says, yes, I did.
Speaker: Now you could say it was the only way he could, and he did warn her. So he did give her a chance to save the father. ah And you could say, this is the only way he had of escaping and stopping the church and saving the world. And it was a sacrifice that he decided was worth it.
Speaker: um And he brought up the point of it wasn't just him. Like who had, how with how did this princess have all the tools that she needed to meet him? You know, someone else set her up as well. um Kind of giving the idea that the church set her up.
Speaker: to get information, you know, to be used as a tool against Ezra Haddon. And then, so she was going to be a tool either way. And to really question how she got to do the things that she did, which I thought was a very good point.
Speaker: I hope she took it in, especially now that she's ah one of Thrace's only allies, she is about to be used by the church.
Speaker: which um I did love speaking. This is now jumping again to the end when Solly is describing Thrace in this position she's now in and in the state of mind she's in and that she's alone. Her family's gone. She has no friends. It'll be so easy to manipulate her.
Speaker: And you're just sitting there going, Oh, you don't know Thrace. ah Yeah. I think Arista was a lot easier to manipulate. She was a lot less sure of herself.
Speaker: Yeah, and if there's something I love, I just love when all-powerful secret force just keeps misjudging people and misjudging that things just sometimes go wrong um when their heir that they the church had chosen stabs the monster and it doesn't pierce his skin and then it just kills him.
Speaker: ah I almost laughed out loud. I know that's dark, but it was just like, it was it was done in a comical way. I totally agree. it was, you felt like, yes, it's too bad this guy is dying, but you know he did set himself up to be a part of this farce. so And he knew all the people ahead of him were going to die. And that, you know, so I didn't really. No, I didn't really. It was just, you know, he goes in there with all the confidence and then just yeah dies. And just the sharp shock of, you know, the archbishop watching it. And like, you almost think he's going to die right there just because his plan did not go to plan. he Yeah. Yeah. I laughed at that part too. And and the part, okay. Was there a part? No, I was listening to the book, which means I talked back.
Speaker: a lot more than what I'm just reading. um Was there a point in this book where you got so like excited or into it that you were talking out loud? e I'll tell you the part that made me the most uncomfortable that I had to keep putting down and walking away while I try to think about the part where I was talking a lot. I did laugh out loud quite a bit. um But Bernice, the sneaky little servant that they the church assigns to Arista to just keep watch of her every move, I wrote down that that is like...
Speaker: The worst form of evil, just like these benign nobody characters that just are there and you don't even think to question them because they have no power.
Speaker: Like Arista never, even though she's like, I don't remember her being my mother's handmaiden. I don't remember her. And like, but like, and it was kind of pissing me off that Arista didn't think to question like more.
Speaker: i was I was a little disappointed in the second half of with Arista's thinking capacity. I felt like she was somehow like smarter when you first meet her and cunning.
Speaker: And then it seemed like she, and maybe it was her brush with death where she's like, I'm just gonna toe the line and live a good life. But it just seemed like She could have caught on a little bit quicker. But yeah, Bernice was like handing her a ginger snap. I'm like, it's poison or something, you know, like just, and it never ended up being anything, but the whole time i was just like on the edge, just being like, Oh God, what is she doing to her? What is she going to do to her? Oh, she was terrible. And the way the narrator did her voice was so annoying too. And, ah but like perfectly annoying. Um,
Speaker: Oh, I hated her so much. and And the fact that you know she's in it for the long game. And, okay, so she like right away she's talking about getting her married off to, you know, all imperialist people. And you know what happens to the royalist women who marry imperialist men. They get killed. So you're like, okay, so is she just there waiting? Is she going to be the assassin? Probably.
Speaker: Or not dirty her fingers that much, but like get her in the position to be killed. Yeah. Yeah. And she's just so shit is so horrible. Yeah. And the fact that Arista is a princess hates this woman, hates the way she's like babying her and treating her and doesn't dismiss her.
Speaker: That was so bizarre to me. Yeah. i Like yeah I agree. She didn't question enough. She did. She did think like, huh, weird. I don't remember her. But then it's just like she accepted it as this part of life because the her brother had... and you know Maybe didn't have the power to, but I feel the princess should have the power to dismiss one of her ladies in mating. man Ladies in mating. Ladies in waiting. That's different book. Yeah, that is. um Yeah, oh, I know. i And she felt bad thinking about her dying in the fire, and I...
Speaker: was having trouble. I felt very bad for Hilfred. Yeah. but like Did you have a trouble remembering that Hilfred was a man? In the beginning, it took me a while to figure it out because it was no it wasn't stated for so long.
Speaker: I was like, is the bodyguard a woman? I mean, just they'd be like, and Hilfred, and I'd be like, who's Hilfred again? Is that one of the maids? And that was one who I thought Hilfred was much older toward the end the book. You find out they're the same age.
Speaker: Yeah. Because, yeah, I thought he was, like, already an established guard when he saved her as a kid. Yeah. And you're just, oh, that was sad, that whole that whole bit of her story.
Speaker: the silent anger that he didn't save her mom too and she's like oh i know that but it's too late yeah so he's obvious i feel here's back to my predictions i feel he's going to be a much larger part of the next book yeah i do too um and i also i just want to know two things and i will say them both and i will remember to come back to one but you obviously had parts where you were talking out loud what were those Okay, now before we get to that, should we do the Discworld Delight quick?
Speaker: Oh, heck yeah.
Speaker: People, who did you we had a bit of a vacation. Our little sister got married and then we both kind of got sick. So I apologize.
Speaker: We are a little behind. i have not posted the Discworld Delight to TikToks. We don't have guesses from last episode, but you can still guess and you can still listen to this one. What was the answer to last one?
Speaker: Who knows? That was so long ago. Mm-hmm. Because we... We were pickling. We were, and I remember that. Oh, they're great. Great. So far, I haven't tasted them yet.
Speaker: They're just pickling away. How long do they need to pickle? um Are you going to give me some for Christmas? I am the spicy one. All right.
Speaker: Now, shush. This is for this week. she's just Who is that strange person? said a voice by her ear. Agnes heard Perdita curse her for jumping sideways, but she recovered and managed to smile awkwardly at the person who'd spoken.
Speaker: He was a young man, and it dawned on her a very attractive one. Attractive men were not in plentiful supply in Laker, where licking your hand and smoothing your hair down before taking a girl out was considered swanky. Disgusting.
Speaker: Oh, who hasn't done a little? Me. Me.
Speaker: The part that had me talking out loud was when Thrace kills the Galarabren. just, the way the author leads into it is so great. And you just know that, you know, you know more than she does. She just thinks she's holding the scrap of, of, of a broken sword, but you actually know what it is and why it's going to work. You know that her father has already put the other part of the sword in and it's going to work.
Speaker: And she just walks forward. And the way, the fact that he can't smell her because she isn't afraid. And that is how he doesn't kill her before she kills him was just so good. And this brings up my theory that this is a little bit of an homage to Theoden and Eowyn, both Theron and Thrace.
Speaker: in the way that Thrace and Eowyn were often kind of looked over and the sons or the male heirs were more highly prized. And then at the end and um how, you know, both of them come, Eowyn finds Théoden, Thrace finds Theran on the battlefield dying.
Speaker: And, you know, they, they, have a moment together and then they kill some giant being that one, no man can kill. And the other one, no human weapon can kill.
Speaker: And it felt a little bit like a love letter to that moment. Um, yeah which is another moment that I love. So, ah Yeah, and getting to hear Theron say, I'm so proud of you. And, you know, having those words actually spoken to Thrace was a beautiful moment.
Speaker: And then she kills him. Not her dad. She kills the Clara. Yes. I was worried as we got there because I was just like, I feel like this book is going to make me cry. Nobody's died yet that has made me cry.
Speaker: um That and then the brother stepping in to save his brother and getting killed by the stupid church was just like, I hated that so much. Yeah.
Speaker: I know. So were you surprised that one of the brothers died? I was so worried when they were both there. i was like, just leave. And they're so sweet and fun. know. love them. And like exuberant.
Speaker: And humble. Like they've come from this family that's the best at sword play, but they know when they're beat. They have such respect for Hadrian and he's not a noble lord. They just absolutely respect and trust him implicitly. They're like, if he says that this beast is too much, we should leave.
Speaker: Yeah, if the one guy who could win this contest isn't in it, we should listen. yeah Yeah, that broke my heart. and And just so useless to be like, it we're here to stop anyone who... is just like Yeah, it's that's part of the like the the the evil that is so...
Speaker: petty and mundane. like you're kind yeah it's It's so much worse than the Galarabryn because that is, okay, it's an enchantment. It's kind of impersonal in what it's doing. You know it's just this evil creature and it's gonna do evil things. But then when you have a human looking at this devastation, looking at all the people who have been killed and not joining forces with the other humans, just going, well, we're gonna have to kill you because you're going against our power play.
Speaker: It's so well psychopathic. and And then, you know, he just runs off when he sees he's losing. So it's cowardly and psychopathic. Oh, I can't wait for Hadrian to kill him.
Speaker: Yeah, me too. That better happen. And I love love love, love, love, love that Hadrian is just as good at the mental sword play as he is at the physical, that he's very smart and he's a good strategist and like, and is just always using that power for good.
Speaker: Yeah. I just, I just love him.
Speaker: And Royce might be just a little black hearted, but like in a good way. and Like he would have killed Magnus and it would not have bothered him.
Speaker: No. After he said he wouldn't. Yeah. But the fact that i love when he doesn't kill him the second time when Hadrian isn't there and he says the only reason is because there's a man living in that tent who wouldn't like it And you put a blanket on him and a tent over him. It was like you had shown him kindness when I wasn't around. No, you didn't. He knows he didn't have to do it. And that's like he sees that as balance. It's starting to balance the you shut the door on me.
Speaker: It's so fascinating.
Speaker: I had a question and it just flew out of my head. Give me a second.
Speaker: Oh, that was it. I was going to ask because we think we have met the heir at this point. Perhaps. We could be wrong. Maybe they're just famous we haven't been introduced to them in the book.
Speaker: But I want to know, I just want you to have a guess. Even if you don't fully believe it, just like give a guess. okay ah
Speaker: Okay. Okay. If we're saying it's someone we've met, which I'm not entirely sure of. Dang. Dang. Okay, do you have a guess? I'm thinking.
Speaker: Well, I told you i for a moment thought it might be Hadrian. And now we think that Theron, sorry, I just read Theron, ah that Ezra Haddon is gone to get heir. So now, here's my guesses.
Speaker: just Myron. Or Hadrian. That doesn't make any sense though. Myron is a monk. I think a medallion would have come up.
Speaker: What if the heir's a woman? Yeah, i was thinking about that. um Okay, so Royce does bring up Gwen at the end. Could it be Gwen?
Speaker: Could it be Gwen or the one, the oh oh what's her name that I just said with the letters? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: That's true. i did think it had to be nobility, but it doesn't. could be Gwen. No. No. And speaking of Gwen, that is one thing. yeah That is one thing.
Speaker: I do have a small... beef with or you don't like prostitutes. No, I am not a huge fan of Gwen and Royce. I don't feel it. I don't feel the connection.
Speaker: We don't, we're in his head a few times in the book and he never thinks about her. So I don't know really how he feels. Although like we see him interacting and he's always kind and like, you feel like he trusts her and shows her more of himself than he does anyone else. But I don't feel it.
Speaker: I'm like, i forget about this woman. I want to argue with you so badly, but the truth is I also forget about her. And you're right. We are in his head and he's like not longing to get back to her.
Speaker: Yeah. And not even that he would be pining away. Like that's just not in his character, but I w I want to know how he feels a little bit and it doesn't need to, I don't need this book to be romantic.
Speaker: But I, it's like, I know how Royce and Hadrian feel about each other, just by the way their actions and the way they talk to each other. Right. And you so you know what love exists there. So it's it's like the same thing. You don't need it to be a romance to have that in there.
Speaker: Their scenes together are lovely. But sure. but But sure. So it's not, you don't get a real, let me put it this way. If he were to go back to the village and find out Gwen had been killed, I wouldn't be devastated.
Speaker: No. I'd be like, dang, that's a bummer. But then would go on forgetting about her. Yeah. That was really my only, yeah. Cause the one scene that I didn't like in this whole entire book was,
Speaker: is that first scene we so have in the back room. And I can't remember if we talked about this in the first episode. Yeah, we It in the beginning. Okay, good. Yeah. So that didn't change. That's like all we know about like you hate all men or something like that.
Speaker: No, no, that didn't happen. been I wanted the woman in the room to have a reason to be there other than just sitting on Hadrian's lap. Well, too bad, Mary. I didn't understand what what we were getting from that. It wasn't about what we were getting. It was about what Hadrian was getting.
Speaker: ah No. ah Listen. Listen. No. no No. Yeah, so Gwen, I look forward to finding out more about her and even just liking her because it's not there yet.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, i like her. I don't dislike her. Yeah, I don't know her. I don't even know the woman. Wouldn't it be funny if Thrace was the heir? Yeah. But then again, why would Ezra Hodden leave if Thrace was there in the church's clutches? Yeah.
Speaker: I also was, um it's not funny, but a little funny when Solly is like with a name to unite nations. What's her name? Thrace.
Speaker: Seriously? Well, we'll have to do something about that. Yeah, we'll change that. So much of him is like petty aesthetics.
Speaker: And I kind of do love that in a villain. Like when he's complaining about the building that they're in, he's like, this is not the place for an heir of an empire be born, but we'll fix it in post. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: We can't bother with it now in this terrible setting. Yeah. And the fact that when he's with the other archbishops and the... but he's he's kind of put a little in his place, or at least they think he is, because he um made a mistake. You know, was only his kingdom that he's in charge of that is still royalist. His coup didn't happen. So he's kind of in trouble being kind of looked down on.
Speaker: But then he's the one that survives. And he's also quite talented because when the archbishop gives his speech about this is how we're going to find the air, people are like confused and don't do anything. And he like rolls his eyes and he's like, gives a great speech. And people are like, ah, they're excited. And he's just like, that's how you do it.
Speaker: That is how must I do everything myself? He knows how to manipulate people. And I think the, I was thinking about the prestige, spoiler alert, if you haven't watched the prestige, and I think I've mentioned this before because it's so applicable.
Speaker: um At the end of prestige, it's talking about why magic tricks work and why magicians are able to have jobs. And it says that the reason people are fooled is because they want to be fooled.
Speaker: And I think about that with the church leading people along where it's like, well, the people want this.
Speaker: And it's on some level they are accepting of this control in their life. Well, and that's especially, that's what Solly's so good at, is figuring out the trigger point that will work because he'll use one that people want.
Speaker: What I still want to find out is why the uncle said um Arista and her brother weren't even human. Okay, I'm glad you brought that up because that was my question. Because in they the lie that they... Well, I assume it's a lie. The lie they fed Arista is that the potion that she was feeding her father made him seem inhuman.
Speaker: Oh, Mary!
Speaker: It's the prince! The heir is the prince! Well, why wouldn't it be Arista then? They're brother and sister. Well, I haven't heard about her wearing a medallion.
Speaker: Maybe they both are. Because the lie they fed her was that she would the potion she was giving her father made him seem inhuman and made them assume that they were the heirs. And that's why they were going after them to kill them.
Speaker: Now, what if that's not true? What if they actually are the heirs? Well, then they would have just killed him. They tried. These things must be handled delicately.
Speaker: oh I don't know all right, I'm hanging my hat on that one. Prince Alric is the heir. Hadrian's the bodyguard or vice versa. Well, that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker: All right. I don't have a guess for the heir. I don't like guessing when I don't really have a guess. I don't believe in that's why the uncle said that is because he thought they were the heirs of Novoron. But why would they the are you shouting at me? you're saying the heirs are not totally human because they're part God?
Speaker: is that Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. But he was acting like, wouldn't that make them better than human? Not like subhuman? Well, it's been watered down for 900 years, Mary.
Speaker: Subhuman? Who said they're subhuman? Nobody, but he was killing them like they're like, I don't know. Like they were an abomination. Speaking of the Church of Novoron, it's book one and I already want to burn it all to the ground. Oh, I hate them so much.
Speaker: Anyway. Moving on from that. Although I will say you've got, you know, you do have people like Deacon Thomas. I'm sure some lower level church members think it's a good church.
Speaker: They're wrong.
Speaker: I, yeah. I mean, absolute power corrupts absolutely, Mary. I think Spider-Man taught us that. Or maybe it was Batman. Batman.
Speaker: I can't remember. Oh, so what do you think of the page? Who do you think the patriarch is? What is he? The fact that so few people see him, he's locked away in the top of that tower. I think he's just sort of like a Wizard of Oz character because they think he speaks directly to God. Right.
Speaker: Right. That can't be happening. Is no unless their god is not a good one so But there is that guy who does speak to God and he keeps it on the low down though That was fascinating. He'll be coming back. Very interesting. yes yes Maybe he's the heir because he can talk to his great, great, great, great granddaddy.
Speaker: Yeah, could be. Royce didn't meet him, but maybe he was only speaking of the heir that he knew. That's what i always say. Just talk about the air you know. It could be him. All right. You buy that one?
Speaker: I could buy that. I could i could i can buy that as an air guest. Do you remember his name? Brother so-and-so. Oh, and he healed people. yeah because he was talking to God. and Oh, that might be it. He stopped to the plague in its tracks.
Speaker: That seems like air activity. And it also seems purposeful. has nothing to do with our being tired that we can't even remember his name because it seems like you're meant to sort of be like, oh, interesting, and then forget him.
Speaker: Yeah, it's just this like fascinating little moment, and then we move on. And he's a part of the Church of Novoron, so they're not all bad, Mary. No, that's what I'm saying, because I'm sure there's the devout... No, that's what I'm saying. Lower to middle...
Speaker: Right about here. People. No higher than here. I think the last thing I wanted to talk to you about was the elves. And I did appreciate the explanation of how and why they were defeated because you're watching Royce move through this book and you're like, okay, he can kick everyone's butt. How did an entire army...
Speaker: And it makes you look at the human race as like sort of this infection that spreads, that just like keeps multiplying and multiplying. And this sort of more ethereal, I'll say race, that values life and death more and also but maybe because they don't do it much.
Speaker: Nobody even knows the lifespan of an elf. um Eventually just gave up because they didn't, they couldn't handle the loss anymore. Yeah, it makes me really want them not to have a war. Everything you hear about the elves, you know, it's all so beautiful. And they the the emperor was, I think that was one of the reasons he was killed, was because he was making peace with the elves.
Speaker: That's, yeah you know, when they met at the tower. And was definitely the church. Yeah, and the Galalabren, Galarabren, always want to add an extra L in there, shows up. Galarabren.
Speaker: Oh, in the audio book says Gilara Bryn. We'll just chalk it up to another thing I'm wrong about. Well, or maybe the narrator is. Yeah, I agree. I think it's the church that was trying to do it from the beginning. And I think the piece with the elves was part of it. And the way that now like so many people think so ill of the elves.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. It's like some, I think that's, and magic. It's like something the church, I think that's all the church's influence. sewed in in over 900 years. It's just belief.
Speaker: It's truth. Yeah. Which, which you see in Arista of the way she's treated, she's you know, almost burned for being a witch, but then even just the little things that people are behaving differently about her, you know? And so she's like, Oh, not doing magic. Maybe people will just forget. Yeah. And,
Speaker: So even someone as smart and interested in magic as she is, is pushed into it by this cultural feeling. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So. It was done for a purpose. Are we continuing the series on this podcast? Oh, think so. Let's do it. All right. So what is the next book called?
Speaker: Rise of Empire. Yeah. So if you haven't read it, catch up with us now that we've given whole first book away. Yeah. And read the second book with us. That will be our November read.
Speaker: so you have till after Thanksgiving to finish it and then join us. yeah And if you have read it, talk to us in the comments. What were your favorite parts? Are you laughing at our guesses?
Speaker: What your guesses are? Don't tell us. yeah Yeah. Don't don't don't spoil it. Don't spoil it. Spoil it. spoil it So, Carolina, what is your spark week? This week? Uh-huh.
Speaker: Since we skipped a week, you can have two. One from last week and one from this week. I got to go in the ocean last week. And that is Heavenly. And I got to be with my family, which is also heavenly.
Speaker: And I got to, I just got to see someone I love effervescently happy. And that made me very happy. Yeah. Those are all my sparkies.
Speaker: What are yours? Those are the sparks from last week. And I would say my sparks from the last week would be the same. I got to scuba dive for the first time again in 20 years. And I will say, yes, I saw a shark, which was awesome. A caveat though. ah Scuba diving for the first time as 16 year old is very different than scuba diving again for the first time as a 36 year old. 20 years gap in between of not diving.
Speaker: um Diving as an adult is a little different. Yeah, you can't breathe down there. and You can't breathe down there. um And the pressure and like the technical things that could go wrong and suddenly you're an adult and everyone just expects you to look at your own dive computer and know all these numbers and what these numbers mean and not be ADD and forget that you have a computer.
Speaker: ah that part kind of stressed me out a little bit. um But the actual being underwater and seeing the fish and the shark and we saw ah two shipwrecks, purposeful, sunk down on purpose.
Speaker: So not tragic. Sunk down on purpose. Although one, well, they they they'll sink them as ah to build a reef and also to be a place for people. to oh ah So like one of them was actually, which I didn't realize until after after the dive, which would have been cool to know while there was from World War II and it was like one of the troop movement ships. So that would have been really cool to know beforehand, but I didn't.
Speaker: But it was really fun and I dove with very fun people um who were also helpful without being in any way superior, which was nice.
Speaker: Oh, that is nice. Yeah. So for this week, Carolina, Now that you're back home and we have recovered the illness, mostly, what is your spark of the week?
Speaker: I had a friend take me to a workout class this morning that was just really great. And i just, I feel really lucky. i just have a lot of wonderful friends. And i just feel like, because, it ah you know, sometimes coming home is bittersweet. And I was talking to my husband and I was like,
Speaker: Well, without getting too far into it, we were looking for silver linings about being home because we were both feeling a little bit bummed. And we both said that our friend group is just like so lovely and we both feel really lucky.
Speaker: And ah the workout class kicked my butt, but it was great in a good way. Yay. Yes. I know we talk about rituals a lot on this podcast and I was i have been trying to think of what is a good morning ritual that could replace.
Speaker: So on vacation, we would every morning, there was a group of us, the morning crew who would wake up early and go get coffee. And then we'd all meet each other on the beach. Some of us would swim, some of us would, you know, just sit on the beach, but it was so much fun.
Speaker: And just was such a great way to get out of bed every morning going, Oh, I'm going to go get coffee and go to the beach and go get in the ocean. And what is something that we can do here?
Speaker: We don't have an ocean. We don't have the weather that allows swimming in the morning at this time of year. ah Yeah. Trying to figure it out. I don't know. I was thinking maybe go have coffee in my greenhouse, which is still beautifully going and alive. That's very nice. It does get you outside.
Speaker: does. So i'm I'm thinking about trying that, but, Yeah, trying do like like we do with our fantasy books, trying to bring to the home life something that we have enjoyed when stepping out of our usual routine.
Speaker: And for my spark this week, I have a show and tell. no Yes! The print proofs for my book have arrived.
Speaker: So here's the paperback. Can you see it? Sprayed edges. There we go. Mary is so beautiful. Here's the hardcover. Look at that. am so happy with this. Wow. Look at that.
Speaker: Yeah. And the illustrations inside are just beautiful. Chapter heading art. It all worked out really well. and we're One step closer to having them then go live on online bookstores, wherever you want to buy them.
Speaker: Mary, that is incredible. And I cannot wait to have your book in my hands. incredible. The next thing I'm so excited for is just to have this book physically in readers' hands yes is, yeah an experience I haven't had. I mean, people have read the e-books, beta readers and whatnot, but to have actual honest-to-God books and honest-to-God people's hands, it's very exciting.
Speaker: All right, and with that, we are so grateful for spiraling through this universe with all of you. It's not always easy, but no good story ever is.
