Transcript
Speaker: What do pickles
Speaker: Welcome to Mythic Mirror, the podcast for lovers of myth and fantasy who want to live magical and fulfilling lives. I'm your host, Mary C. Kehoe. I'm the returning guest, Eleanor the Herbalist.
Speaker: And today behind the camera is... Carolina Carter, your co-host and hot takes questionnaire extraordinaire. So today we will be chatting about fantasy Carolina and i learn how to make pickles in a very specific way. We are not doing the whole vinegar pickling, which is the only way I've ever done it. The ritual of pickling.
Speaker: So, since humans had vegetables that they wished they could eat in the wintertime and had access to salt, there has been lactic acid salt fermentation.
Speaker: So really, in every culture, wherever you are, whatever country you're in listening to this, you can explore your local history of pickling and salt pickling.
Speaker: The reason why this is, i think, the most ancient form of pickling, get at me in the comments if I'm wrong, if there's an older method, I do think it's the oldest method, is that literally all you need are vegetables of some kind, fresh, and salt.
Speaker: And you need some method to weigh them. So even in ancient times when people had different weighing systems or no weighing system at all, you don't even have to have a proper weighing system. You just have to be able to get the ratio of vegetable material to salt correct.
Speaker: and then it creates a lactic acid ferment. And you don't need to add water, you don't need to add vinegar, you don't need to add sugar. It's just vegetables and salt.
Speaker: And these are cucumbers I grew in our greenhouse. Very excited that they did not go to waste. Yes, and I have been teaching my wonderful friends, Mary and Carolina, that there is no such thing as, i think my cucumbers got too big to pickle. um All you have to keep in mind is if they get this big the skin is very tough. So that's why we peeled them. And the next step you can see the seeds are very well developed and we need to get rid of that jelly. And the seeds themselves are hard. So you really don't want to be trying to eat that in your pickle. So what we'll be pickling is the outside, the part of the pickle that's still very firm. It's very firm and crisp. It's going to be delicious.
Speaker: And why did I let them get this big, you may ask? Because I planned a book launch right at the same time as harvest time. And this is what happens. These things happen. These things happen. And now, before we go any further, I'm going to put the kettle on.
Speaker: Yes. Don't mind the noise.
Speaker: It is an essential. You always have to have tea when we're getting into the ritual of the seasons and preserving the harvest. So I am very curious.
Speaker: What is your favorite pickle, Carolina? I don't even know enough. Really? You don't have a favorite pickle? Sweet or dill? Oh, dill. and Dill. Okay. Me too. And speaking of, I do have all of these seeds that I harvested.
Speaker: Excellent. if we want to put that in. Wonderful. Wonderful. You can do some with dill, some without. You can add fresh garlic. You can add chili.
Speaker: I really like the baby cornichons that are spicy. Yes, yes, yes. Those are my favorite. We don't have any spice. Oh, I have a couple of ghost peppers.
Speaker: Oh wow. Okay, ghost peppers. Ghost pepper pickles. If you want spice, are prepared for this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, ready. We can do spice. And you can also pickle your tomatillos.
Speaker: Actually, that's a good idea. You can. So literally any vegetable, you can add fresh Fresh vegetable. You can add onions, carrots, green beans. If it's fresh and it's crunchy, it will pickle.
Speaker: That's a hot take. So that is that is an important point. um If your vegetable that you want to pickle is squishy or spongy, it's not going to work. It needs to be crisp before you start or you won't have a nice texture.
Speaker: What are your favorite autumnal rituals? there are so many. Well, drinking tea, admiring all the changing colors, but not just of the leaves.
Speaker: The changing colors of the light, the earth, the dirt, the wet bark, wet moss. I mean, everything to me just gets so much more jewel toned.
Speaker: I think it's because I'm a fall baby, so I like fall. I think spring and autumn are my favorites with the shifting. It's so dynamic. There's so much going on.
Speaker: about you, Caroline? I'm also an autumn baby, so I love, love, love the fall. And here's one of our rituals. We have gotten out our winter cups.
Speaker: Fantastic. Yes. oh Our flower cups have gone away. I love it. Well, let's see, more fall rituals. I have to say that I've always been a gardener, and so for me the harvest has always been a huge part of it.
Speaker: And not just pickling, but making a homemade apple cider, making applesauce, making jams and jellies.
Speaker: Of course, I always do it with the intention that these are going to be Christmas presents, but it's really a question of how many jars survive until Christmas. That determines how many people might actually get jams for Christmas.
Speaker: So just know if you have not received a jam for Christmas from me, it's ah it it's met a good end in my breakfast.
Speaker: Merry Christmas. take number three. Merry Christmas. yeah You're welcome. Green, white, or herbal? Definitely herbal. At this time. I must confess I am still a bit jet-lagged.
Speaker: I should avoid caffeine at all costs or I will not sleep at all. What would you like? Herbal. Herbal. Hot take number four. Do you think romanticcy has ruined the fantasy genre or you feel that it's brought new life to fantasy?
Speaker: I have no shade for those who enjoy their fairy smut. If fairy smut is what brings you joy in this in this world and everything that's going on in the world, i mean, more power to you. I need to see a hero struggling with his identity. I need to see, i need to hear the swords crashing together. Actually, this is connected to my love of German folklore and German inspired high fantasy
Speaker: um The Nibelungenlied, the the song of the nine rings and The many many pieces of wonderful fantasy that it has inspired um i don't know if anybody in the comments or if you guys have heard of the book expecting someone taller No.
Speaker: I highly recommend it for a German fantasy inspired delightful book that will definitely make you laugh out loud or snort your coffee. um but This is a great fantasy book. Really lighthearted, fun, but there's dragons and heroism and a little bit of romance.
Speaker: I mean, it might be considered quite tame by today's standards. But that's one that I reread. Mary, your hot take on romanticity? I have enjoyed it.
Speaker: I also have trouble finding anything else sometimes. I think the algorithm tends to, once you've seen one thing, they only show you the one thing. So I think I would feel the same way if I, in fact, I have felt the same way with period peace mysteries, because I get on a kick of that and then that's all I see and you have to like swim out of it. So I guess that's more about algorithms than about any one genre, but I can get sick of getting marketed one thing. For me it's more that if I'm in the midst of the book
Speaker: and I find the romance is not believable but it seems to just be inserted for the sake of the current trends, that's when I get annoyed.
Speaker: Because if it takes me out of the story, if it makes me break my suspension of disbelief, and I start to see them less as people but more as caricatures on a page... Oh yes, heavy breathing. Kisses, stra okay, yep. She's so finding a new and poetic way to describe things that all of humanity knows. Okay, here we go. tick, tick, tick. tick When do we get back to the story?
Speaker: right, here's another hot take. Worst names in fantasy for his member. oh Oh. Oh my gosh. No, no, it's a good one It's a good one. You need you need these spicy questions sometimes. perfectly new The hero's gherkin.
Speaker: Or just worst words surrounding the act. I know mine already. Go. Slaked. Slate. Worst. If I see that, am putting that book down, I'm walking away, I'm going outside of touch Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, at a certain point, I feel like there's an art to writing smut. And if you if you're really trying to be as smutty as possible without writing porn...
Speaker: Sometimes it becomes a little too obvious that you're doing it for the sake of the smut and not for the characters. Like, what I really appreciate when it's really well done is if it fits to the character development.
Speaker: I mean, of course, we have, especially in a lot of fantasy that's inspired by history and historical fantasy, they'll rely heavily on the very sad historical trope of the woman being totally ignorant that she doesn't even have any words to describe her own body and i mean that is believable and i certainly do appreciate it when the author is
Speaker: smart enough and quick enough to be able to provoke a social commentary or a thought in the reader's mind without taking you out of the story but keeping it really grounded and really real of like is she finding freedom is she being taken advantage of like i like to see it as part of the character growth and not just oh yay they finally had sex When the spicy scene comes way too soon.
Speaker: We've talked about that before. Carolyn and I have talked about yearning. We love the slow burn. and And more than just physical yearning. I think sometimes the romanticy that does it really well and that I enjoy is when it has that the like mental, emotional appreciation and yearning. Especially the enemies to lovers. when it's kind of like a not a real enemies. They don't... it's just... it's a little bit... feels manufactured. What brings to mind... um Sherwood... Her name is Sherwood something. And the title has the word crown in it. Yes.
Speaker: Crown Duel? Crown Duel, yes! Crown Duel. Yes, that's the one. I think that is an example of one of the best... um in my humble opinion, one of the best...
Speaker: ways in which the romance and enemies to lovers is handled as part of the character development, part of the story. Here are tea options for you. Tea!
Speaker: Sarsaparilla root tea. Yes. Okay. Done. Sarsaparilla. So, pop quiz for your viewers. Root beer. yeah Yes.
Speaker: Viewers and listeners, do they know the history of sarsaparilla and why me drinking sarsaparilla tea is a protest move?
Speaker: I'm going to go on out out on a limb and say they don't. Okay, so um we have a number of herbs from the American South which have a long history of indigenous use and indigenous knowledge and i would encourage everyone to, especially if you're in the US and you're in the southern part of the US, s to definitely look local, find a local indigenous voice to learn from because so much of what we now know about this herb is rediscovery of what the indigenous people already knew.
Speaker: So tribal knowledge about sarsaparilla, was there for a long time before the settlers came in and and realized it makes a delightful beverage.
Speaker: And soda made with sarsaparilla is delicious. um However, it does have a medicinal effect and you can use it for a number of different things.
Speaker: I always am a fan of anything that helps me with my nerves because I'm a workaholic in case nobody noticed. And um I really appreciate the history of this route because my dad is from Arkansas and his mom, my paternal grandmother, who I never met.
Speaker: um She was a Kilmer and she was a direct descendant from a particular Cherokee connection And from what my dad tells me, she had a lot of respect for the old ways of doing things, even if so much had been lost. And of course, she she really didn't have much to hang on to. But being able to drink sarsaparilla tea, I remember my grandmother.
Speaker: And... It is, the FDA does not like it when we drink sarsaparilla tea because it does contain, um well, it's medicine.
Speaker: So if you take too much of it, you might have a really bad few days. So look it up and be cautious. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying a real cup of sarsaparilla tea.
Speaker: Hot take number four. I have to defend sarsaparilla. o It is a wonderful, wonderful herb. want to hear your hottest take on magic systems. If you need more direction than that, let me know. Oh, magic systems. Give me more direction.
Speaker: Is that a magic system joke? Do they be really hard? Or you prefer a simpler magic system? I mean, for me personally, if it's... Ceremonial magic is just not my vibe. I mean, if too many people start talking about astrology and like three degrees Aries, trine, Neptune at sextuple, Mercury, retrograde, i I'm over it. I can't. I just i can't follow it. Have you read fantasy where astrology is?
Speaker: Oh, yes. Really? Oh, yes. um Astrology inspires a lot of magic systems. And i I mean, I'm allergic to astrology to a certain degree in real life just because I just, I can't.
Speaker: I can't. um But anytime you have a magic system like, well, it's hard to think of because it's been annoying enough that I've stopped reading the book in the first chapter. Yeah. If if a character starts...
Speaker: pon If a character starts to pontificate in their own mind about the magic system before I've even hit the end of chapter one, I'm out. I'm out.
Speaker: It's not the type of world building you appreciate. new The magic to me, it has to feel genuine and, well, I guess the key word is feeling. If I don't catch a certain feeling from the magic system, if the mention of the magic doesn't hit me emotionally, ah can't.
Speaker: It just takes me right out of the story. Mary? would say when they feel a little half-baked. We've talked about this with religion, too, where where it doesn't feel, like, infused into the world as much. I think sometimes magic that mentions the moon but doesn't really have any... Or the solstice and the equinox as, like, power days or something, but doesn't actually... it doesn't feel grounded in the story or, like, the author did a huge amount of yeah development. It's just, like...
Speaker: This is a magical type of thing. Moon moon and magic goes together. We'll put it in. Arbitrary. Yeah. If there's arbitrary elements, I'm with you. I mean, the best magic systems, I mean, you just feel it in your bones. Like you're reading a segment where something magical is happening and maybe it's not fully explained because everybody understands it because they're in the the world. and you're trying to absorb it like a sponge. That's my favorite.
Speaker: I like it when there's a little mystery, when no character tries to explain it to me, but I'm just dropped into the middle of it, and I'm experiencing it, and trying to put the pieces together. Back to astrology.
Speaker: I need to know more about the hot take of astrology. Oh my gosh, no. People on the internet will think that I am the strangest herbalist ever because I am not a fan of astrology. May i ask what sign is?
Speaker: So I do know that I'm a Virgo. Oh, that makes sense. It's all coming together. It's all coming together. so so But now you have to explain. How does that make sense?
Speaker: I don't know enough about astrology to know that that makes sense. I'm going tell you a secret. Okay. same that makes sense
Speaker: Mostly I just do that to people who don't like astrology. And tell you that makes them mad. Is it usually certain signs that ah hate astrology in your quantitative study? Were you born in the month of September?
Speaker: Yes. Yes, people who were born in the month of September. Now that one, i know it sounds would make me that. No, I believe you. That one's for real. It is Virgos tend to know like you. mean, people always tell me that Virgos are associated with qualities that I would associate with neurodivergence, being non-neurotypical.
Speaker: I don't know, are all Virgos not neurotypical? I think where it gets unhelpful is is the very, when you only look at the sun sign or have a very basic understanding. I think it's...
Speaker: I find it helpful when I talk to someone who has very much studied it, not me. But I'll be talking to someone and telling them something I'm going through and they'll start asking me about things in my chart. And of course I have to look it up cause I don't know.
Speaker: And they'll say, do you have a such and such and this and that? Like why? Yes, yes I do. Well that makes sense as to why you're going through this at this time because this planet just went into you know this earth sign or whatever it is.
Speaker: and And they explain away my entire current um existence. Fascinating. But it's not just based on the sun sign. Gotcha. This is funny.
Speaker: Maybe it has something to do with my astrology. Maybe it maybe it does. Maybe it does. Because my mother, ah she was into astrology. She was an astrology reader for a time when I was really little. And then by the time I became a bit older, she offered to do a reading for me.
Speaker: And she told me it had something to do with where Mars was. But she said, huh, Eleanor, in your chart, it's telling me that you get extremely irritated when people try to define you. so people try to tell you who you are or why you're acting a certain way, you get irritated because Mars is doing this thing in this place.
Speaker: And I said, oh, well, yes, that is true. In fact, you're irritating me right now. Exactly. Exactly. So who knows? Maybe it was a mother's insight. Maybe it was really written in the stars.
Speaker: Maybe it's some combination of the two. But for me, it's just it does not sing to me. Which is funny because i very much can understand very valid approach of approach and use of
Speaker: I would say divination of all kinds when it comes to like pattern finding. I mean, i think that somebody who's very good at tuning into the patterns around them could swirl these cucumber seeds and say...
Speaker: The energy in the kitchen right now, wow, there's there's going to be couple hundred thousand people watching this video. And I'd be down. I would say, yeah, I see it. Absolutely.
Speaker: But if somebody starts telling me about today's astrology and how these stars and planets doing these things means the same thing, I'm going to say, yeah, yeah, pull the other one. It's got bells on.
Speaker: So to each their own. i can laugh at myself. i know it's a little ridiculous. that's I do feel that way about the natural world. I think there's signs everywhere. I just don't know how to interpret them.
Speaker: Whenever I see something slightly unusual, i'm like, it's a sign. i don't I don't know what it means, but it's a high telling me something. For someone. And it means something. Really important to somebody.
Speaker: If only I knew where are my wise elders to teach me the ways. Yes, we need our wise elders. Well, I had such a love of Granny Weatherwax when I first discovered the Tiffany Aking books that I i wanted a Granny Weatherwax in my life so bad that I then decided i should be the granny that I wish to see in the world I love that.
Speaker: And when did you discover Granny Weatherwax? Well, that was, think 16 or I have always wanted to be a crone.
Speaker: Speaking of the last video. yeah right I have wanted to be in my crone era since I was six years old. Alright, so is a crone the same as a witch?
Speaker: No. See? No. I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, i guess it depends. I think a crone can be a witch. Yeah.
Speaker: our i'm gonna you another ah one sentence i'm challenging you people because last week nobody guessed it well one person last week one person guessed it and it was the light fantastic so for this week i have one short and sweet sentence for you that nari damn him had been right
Speaker: Welcome back to Pickling with Fantasy. Oh, that's beautiful.
Speaker: Fantasy pickling, except no, this is real pickling. If you don't have a kitchen scale, you can get clever like your ancestors and figure out a way to determine um a correct ratio of the weight of cucumbers versus the weight of the salt. If you get the math right, it'll work.
Speaker: Cause it's not about how many kilograms, how many grams, how many pounds, how many ounces. It's about the ratio. So if you get the ratio right, it will work. So you could say, this is three of the funny shaped stones from my backyard, and this is one of the funny shaped stones from my backyard. And if you get the ratio right, it works.
Speaker: So this is why ancient humans could do it long before any standardized system of of weights and measures. And our handy dandy postal scale. So we have 2423 grams.
Speaker: always have a book. I sorry for the noise. And I do suggest doing this in metric because the math is easier. Believe it or not, the math is easier. Now I'm going to subtract the weight of the metal bowl. Do the Instagram influencer thing. Behold the metal bowl. Voila.
Speaker: good So we, in our first batch that we already weighed, we had 3,310 grams of cucumbers. this second batch, we've got 2,104. Let's consult the book. So this borrowed from my dear old dad's library. is...
Speaker: let's consult the book so this is the book that i borrowed from my dear old dad's library it is Pretty good, but I've really just stolen it, so i I don't know if this is the best book to have.
Speaker: Please feel free to make your recommendations if you've got a good pickling book. This is Fermented Vegetables by Kirsten and Christopher Schocke.
Speaker: I don't know who they are, but they wrote a book. Now...
Speaker: All we have to do is refresh our memories on the exact ratio. So you can do this so many different ways.
Speaker: If you want to make IPA pickles, you can put hot blossoms in your brine. So that's lovely. So in order to create the right environment to have the healthy, friendly bacteria that will give us all of that delicious lactic acid and good stuff,
Speaker: probiotics so it's two percent salt by weight so what this means is that if you have a thousand grams of cucumbers you need 20 grams of salt you see what i mean about the math being really much easier with metric here we are now we're at the salt portion so as mentioned
Speaker: behold the math because i refused to use ai but really it's very simple math feel free to cheat i was just feeling stubborn and jet lagged um and i i uh you can use any salt it doesn't matter if it's coarse or fine you can use pink salt it just might make your pickles sort of pinkish. Don't be stressed about what type of salt, but with one co caveat, do not use low sodium salt.
Speaker: Don't use potassium salt. It has to be plain, regular sodium chloride. So I've done the math and in the very big bowl, we have to have 66.2 grams of salt.
Speaker: That just ticked over to 66. That's probably below 66. that's too much. You do not have to be as OCD as I am. You really don't.
Speaker: I promise you. It is paramount that you get the right quantity of salt into the vegetables that you calculated.
Speaker: You wouldn't believe it, but that's literally all you need. Everything else, dill, chili flakes, garlic. If we had garlic or onion, we would have weighed it, and that would have been part of our weight.
Speaker: But dried chili flakes, you know, dried dill, it doesn't add any weight. So all we have to do now is massage the salt into the cucumbers. So my hands are clean.
Speaker: um It's not like you're doing surgery or anything, but we all know that there's healthy bacteria that's on the skin of the human hands. And we like to be clean and not to introduce anything unusual into your pickles. It's really important that this is not just mixing.
Speaker: I'm not just trying to distribute the salt, I'm actually squeezing the cucumber pieces because the salt has to do a lot of work now. The salt is doing all the work to create our delicious pickles. What we need is for um the salt to start pulling the moisture out of the cells of the cucumbers.
Speaker: So this is an ah a process by Osmosis. And anybody who's better at biology than me, feel free to correct me in the comments. I love a good biology debate about correct terminology.
Speaker: But in case you have any difficulty with physically being able to squish and squeeze the vegetables that you're pickling, you can take a ah jar full of water and use it as a hammer. You can use an actual wooden mallet, whatever it takes. The whole point is that you need to have some physical impact on the pieces of the vegetables.
Speaker: in whatever way works for you to be adaptive to. What is this when we add in the dill? This is when we should add in the dill, yes. It is time to dill.
Speaker: Dill me! So you can sprinkle, sprinkle, crunchy, crunchy. Yes. Amazing. Now before my allergies developed late in life,
Speaker: I love making bread, so I think of this as just another version of kneading the dough. You've to knead the dough to develop the gluten while you've got to knead the vegetables to develop the salt brine.
Speaker: So Mary, what do you know about the difference between using dill leaves and dill seeds? Nothing. It's not about the strength of the flavor, although some people might get at me in the comments. It's about the profile. So the seeds always will contain pretty much the same active constituents as the leaves. but in different proportions, of course.
Speaker: So the seeds, in my opinion, have more of a well-rounded sweet flavor. So now, as soon as I start to see, can you see that in the camera? All that liquid that's flowing down there.
Speaker: As soon as I start to see that, I know that we are already on the right track and we can start packing into jars. A pro tip is if you really want to get rid of stress when you're doing this, use wide mouth jars that you can fit a fist into because then when you're packing the vegetables into the jar, you can punch down and you can get get out all that stress of the day in the office. Of course, my fist is a bit too big for that for these, so I'll show you the other the other way to do it.
Speaker: So what you want to do is get as many um cucumbers as you can into the jar up to the neck and then you want to squish.
Speaker: Squishy squish. So you can see that even if you can't apply the force of your fist, you can squeeze them down.
Speaker: You do want to compress the vegetables so that they are packed in there tightly because that's the only way that you're going to get enough liquid to rise to cover them.
Speaker: Now this is why also some people will say you shouldn't do this with larger chunks of vegetables, but I've done it and it's worked out okay. It is a little bit easier you're doing this with coleslaw or finely shredded carrots and things like that just because there's more surface area.
Speaker: When I say pack it, I mean, pack it. You want what started as a full jar of cucumbers to be compressed down to half. Oh, okay. That's how you know that you've accomplished your compression goals and you've got enough space to watch and make sure that it produces enough liquid.
Speaker: Now, if you run into trouble for some reason, let's say you made a miscalculation in your math, or your cucumbers are unusually dry and you're not getting enough moisture, then you also have enough space to make extra salt brine and pour it over just to make sure that you have a good ferment.
Speaker: So while we are smooshing cucumbers, Eleanor, what do pickles and fantasy have in common? Well, in my opinion, pickles and fantasy
Speaker: The good ones start with a lot of salt.
Speaker: So at a certain point, you really cannot force them down any further, but I would say this is pretty typical. And I really now am just trying to make sure that nothing is going to stick up too much or float.
Speaker: So now I just want it to be relatively uniform in height. You zoom in on that and you can see that just within the last few minutes it's produced an inch of liquid.
Speaker: So overnight that line of liquid is going to grow and grow and grow and you want the liquid to be up to the neck and you want to have a good distance between the top of the liquid and the top of the vegetables.
Speaker: And now we put the lid on and that's the first jar of pickles. Pickles like fantasy you deserve a lot of good salt.
Speaker: Yes. And wide mouth jars. And wide mouth jars. And as always, we're so grateful to be spiraling through this universe with all of you. It's not always easy.
Speaker: No good story ever is.
