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Alex Stevens - To Be A Dealer, You Must Be A Collector. And To Be A Collector, You Must Be A Dealer.
1.4k Plays1 year ago
Alex Steven’s is a watch dealer and collector who, while just recently started his business a few years ago, has a collecting history that predates this. Alex and I got to know each other over the last several years, aside from our love of watches, but more specifically by sharing similar tastes. As young as he is, there’s a lot to learn from Alex as the London watch market is a completely different beast than its counterparts. Geographically, it comes with its own trials and tribulations, but Alex has seemed to have found a way to circumvent that, which comes down to one simple principle: To be a collector, you must also be a dealer. And to be a dealer, you must also be a collector. He’s become a go-to for vintage Cartier & Piaget and has a bright trajectory ahead, so be sure to keep an eye out. As always, thanks for listening to today’s guest, Alex Stevens, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Alex Stevens Vintage - https://alexstevensvintage.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Collector's Gene Radio
00:00:00
Speaker
Dealers are collectors, and collectors are dealers in a way, and the genes of collecting and dealing are so intertwined, I'm sure they're probably the same thing. Like I said earlier, to be a great dealer, you've got to be a great collector because you're just curating a collection ultimately. What's going on everybody, and welcome to Collector's Gene Radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting, and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene.
00:00:30
Speaker
If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening, and please enjoy today's guest on collector's gene radio.
Alex Stevens: Watch Dealer and Collector
00:00:42
Speaker
Alex Stevens is a watch dealer and collector who, while just recently started his business a few years ago, has a collecting history that predates this.
00:00:52
Speaker
Alex and I got to know each other over the last several years, aside from our love of watches, but more specifically by sharing similar tastes.
00:01:00
Speaker
As young as he is, there's a lot to learn from Alex, as the London watch market is a completely different beast than its counterparts. Geographically, it comes with its own trials and tribulations, but Alex just seemed to have found a way to circumvent that, which comes down to one simple principle. To be a collector, you must also be a dealer, and to be a dealer, you must also be a collector.
00:01:24
Speaker
He's become a go-to for Vintage Cartier and Piaget and has a bright trajectory ahead, so be sure to keep an eye out. As always, thanks for listening to today's guest, Alex Stevens for Collector's Dream Radio. Alex Stevens, welcome to Collector's Dream Radio. Thanks for having me, Kevin. Anytime. I've been pretty excited to get you on here.
00:01:47
Speaker
I know we've chatted about it for a long time and we've virtually, because of geographical location, known each other for a long time. So it's nice to finally sit down and have a long-term chat. It's great. Much better than exchanging the Instagram DMs.
00:02:03
Speaker
Yep, couldn't agree more. So you're kind of a young gun in the industry and a lot of people necessarily don't know that about you, but it's been fun to watch your business get up and running and flourish. And I knew you before you started your own brand. So it's been really cool to see you kind of grow each and every year. And it seems that a lot of young people are getting into watches now and
00:02:31
Speaker
Does being young help you relate more or less to younger people? Is that, you know, a talking point that you use when people are getting interested in a watch and they're unsure maybe about how a small Cartier is going to look on their wrist or, uh, or a 45 millimeter, you know, vintage, you know, long jeans going to look on their wrist. Is that, is that kind of a talking point for you? Well, I think with Instagram, you know, you don't necessarily know how old someone is behind the feed. If you're quite,
00:03:00
Speaker
stealthy with how you do it like I have been you know there's maybe a small photo of you in the corner or you might put the odd personal photo up but a lot of the time I like to just post the watches and keep it very sort of watch centric and serious so it's not something I've necessarily pushed the fact that I am younger
00:03:21
Speaker
I'm 26 now. I've been working in the space for a decade, pretty much, ever since I left school at 17. And I think the demographic has shifted massively since I first got into it. Like I said, seriously into vintage watches around 10 years ago, around 16. It was niche. It really was. I mean, my family, friends, teachers who caught wind of it,
00:03:51
Speaker
didn't really know what it was, what I was doing. How the hell did you get into that? Whereas now, I mean, vintage watches are virtually mainstream. And I suppose it's a great thing for you and I and all dealers because there's more demand than ever really. But the demographic has shifted massively. When I first started going to watch fairs and auctions and events,
00:04:18
Speaker
I was the youngest in the room like every single time. I was bringing the average age down considerably. And whereas now I did a little thing the other day with a few guys and I was the oldest, you know, so it's like, it's changed a great deal. And I think the average age of a first time vintage watch buyer, probably now, I mean, with me, it's in the 20s. I sell watches to young guys and
00:04:47
Speaker
ladies here in London 18 years old first watch or 21 years old uni graduation present or wedding watches in the late 20s or early 30s so the majority of my audience on Instagram is sub 34 or wherever their metric goes up to so there's a lot to be read into that I think in general about the market and buying behaviours
00:05:14
Speaker
Absolutely.
The Early Influence of Collecting
00:05:15
Speaker
And you got started in this when you were actually like around 14, but you didn't get started with watches. So can you tell everybody how you got into collecting and subsequently watches at the end of the day? Well, yeah, no one in my family was interested in watches. No one wore a watch, you know, soft and you hear collectors or dealers saying my grandfather wore Rolex and he showed me it and that planted the seed.
00:05:43
Speaker
But for me, it was just old things. And growing up, my dad was a book seller, book dealer and collector. And he had a big online book business selling secondhand books, around 100,000 books in stock and big warehouse. But he was a collector. He still is, you know, at heart. He would cream off the rare signed first editions and those kind of books for his own collection.
00:06:13
Speaker
My exposure to this world on my first step was going around the local car boot sales and flea markets and auctions with my dad, who was looking for books. And I think like I would have gone to auctions and those types of things from four or five years old. And those early experiences really, even though you don't realize it, obviously at the time, they go in and
00:06:40
Speaker
10 years later or so, you find yourself beginning to buy and sell vintage items without really ever thinking about it or deciding. I never sat down and said, right, I'm going to start a business or I'm going to start trading. And my dad never really pushed it. We just were going to the weekly car boot sale and I decided I'd buy some things and put them on eBay. And like now I look at myself like 12 years later,
00:07:10
Speaker
you know, being professional vintage watch dealer, it's crazy how
Challenges for Young Dealers
00:07:15
Speaker
quickly things can spiral. Yep. And just from that little moment of going around with your dad, led you here. Exactly, yeah. So as someone who is, you know, young without the experience of, you know, there's a lot of guys that are watch dealers that have been in the business for decades, right?
00:07:39
Speaker
As someone who's kind of still fresh, what have been the trials and tribulations for you for getting the business up and running and then subsequently becoming a well-known dealer? I think young people in general, especially when they're entering a world which has been quite
00:07:58
Speaker
sort of dominated by, let's say, more mature characters, if you catch my drift. There's a general feeling of, well, he's young, he can't possibly know anything. He's young, so he's inexperienced, he's young, so he lacks knowledge. Whereas, you know, for me personally, some of the young dealers I know are the most knowledgeable and dynamic. And you look at like Oliver and Clark,
00:08:27
Speaker
Lyndon, he's a young guy, but he's probably more knowledgeable than a lot of guys who've been doing it for a couple of decades. So I think people probably look at you and think you don't know what you're doing, but age is irrelevant. It's really the number of years you've been doing it. And you could have a 26 year old dealer who's been working on it for 10 years and trying to perfect his craft.
00:08:54
Speaker
or you could have a 40, 45-year-old guy who's been doing it for a year or two, the younger one is going to be perceived likely as the less experienced one, but actually it's the opposite. So there's probably a little bit of prejudice in that, but I think that's lessening and I think linking into the previous point,
00:09:16
Speaker
the general demographic of customers is younger too nowadays. So I think perhaps they feel more comfortable buying from someone younger as well. The other thing would be capital. Being a young person, the vintage watch game is so capital intensive. My, my God, I mean, you could buy one Cartier Tank and you're 5,000 pound and
00:09:40
Speaker
float is wiped. So capital is a very tricky thing for young people who want to get into it. But I would say start off on really basic watches really. Start off learning the art of buying and selling, the etiquette of it, the process
00:10:08
Speaker
all of that start out on some 50 pound Casio's or Timex's or Ingersoll's and learn that way and gradually build up because you can get burned in this business going in at too high a level. People maybe inherited a little money, maybe 50,000 or something like that.
00:10:36
Speaker
Royal Oak and the Nautilus and a few day dates and things. And if you don't know what you're looking at, or you don't know the art of buying and selling, you haven't worked on it, like, you know, you can go quite wrong. So I think doing it very gradually and incrementally, I bought and sold
00:10:55
Speaker
watches sub £100 for probably a year or two before I got anywhere near something a bit more tasty you know so take it easy basically at the start and
00:11:11
Speaker
What do you think the biggest challenges are in the vintage market for both a collector and a dealer? Obviously, capital is always one, but what are some of the other challenges that collectors face and dealers face from just dealing strictly in the vintage market? I think trust. Trust is a tough one to build. Anyone can start an Instagram account or send money around the world.
00:11:40
Speaker
or open an eBay but being trusted as a seller of interesting vintage watches is something that takes a lot of time because sadly when lots of attention goes on to something like there's such a lot of attention on vintage watches at the moment it can attract people who are looking to take advantage of that and
00:12:04
Speaker
There's scammers and fake Instagram dealers and accounts out there. So trust when you're buying as a collector and when you're selling as a dealer to try and establish is a big one.
Mentorship and Auction Experience
00:12:18
Speaker
Has there been anyone in the watch world who's kind of taken you under their wing to help you get started or be there as a mentor for you? Yes, I was very fortunate. A father and son duo called Toby and Simon Sutton,
00:12:34
Speaker
By the time I was sort of 16, I began trading a few more interesting watches. You know, I bought my first Datejust, and I bought a few Constellations, and Brightening Top Times, and that type of thing. And I was starting to feel that maybe this was a route for me. I had my fledgling bedroom enterprise, but I wanted to handle some more serious pieces.
00:13:03
Speaker
At 16 years old, it's not that easy to go and do that. So my school encouraged me to seek work experience because it was looking like the route I was going wasn't a kind of university route, really. Buying and selling, you know, you can't go and study that. It's quite raw, the nurse ship. And so they pushed me to seek work experience and I sent a great deal of emails around and I didn't get
00:13:33
Speaker
too many replies. But one gentleman who did reply was Toby Sutton at Watches of Knightsbridge, who invited me for practical work experience at one of their auction previews. And I went up, absolutely loved it. And he asked me back. And that essentially led to working there for around five and a half years after I'd left school. And Toby and Simon really taught me
00:14:02
Speaker
a great deal, not only about watches, but the business, how it works, the etiquette, how to do business the right way. And yeah, I'm very grateful to them for that opportunity. And I'd say you need people like that because you need to be exposed to watches physically. And Instagram is wonderful. YouTube is wonderful, but it's very 2D. And getting these watches in your hand,
00:14:30
Speaker
thousands and thousands of watches a year I got to handle, particularly through an auction. It's 500 watches, four or five times a year. So getting these watches through the hands, comparing them, there will never be any substitute for that. And sadly, that can't be bought. And that's the time thing that you have to invest. But I do acknowledge I was very lucky in having that opportunity at such a young age.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, no doubt and I actually think that's where you and I first, I guess met each other, if you will, was when you were working for them. Yeah, a number of years ago now. So you and I have similar tastes, very similar tastes and you and I are often sharing photos to each other of the watches we're interested in or buying and sometimes you show me something special that you have sitting in the safe.
00:15:21
Speaker
Were these brands always your favorite? I mean, it's not very usual for a dealer or collector who is in our age group. I'm not too much older than you to be into this sort of stuff, right? Everyone's into the big brands and the flashy shiny stuff, which is great, but it's not usual for people our age to be dealing and collecting these sorts of brands. Has it always been a favorite of yours?
00:15:46
Speaker
I think tastes and your eye evolved so much over the years that I can't say that when I was 16 or 18, I had the appreciation for a vintage tank London or something along those lines as I do now. I think that that's evolved and just with a little maturity of getting a few years under my belt. I certainly like those watches and when I handled them,
00:16:16
Speaker
they did something for me, you know, because when I started in the auction world, we would have Cartier London's through when they weren't, you know, worth what they are now, and they didn't have the attention that they have now. And I liked them for what they were. But I don't think I had the full understanding and appreciation. And I think like, collecting is the same, you know, there's certain watches I owned four or five years ago, I wouldn't own now for sure.
00:16:46
Speaker
and 2016, 17, 18, the vintage world was all about chronographs, vintage Hoyas, Valjoux 72 type watches and I enjoyed them, I traded them, I collected a few of them. Then your attention goes elsewhere and certain types of things don't quite have the longevity or substance really that
00:17:15
Speaker
other things do. I think it just takes a while to find your feet. I don't know any watch collector who's gone straight in at their pinnacle. It's a process. What's the battle between finding a great deal on a watch that you love, but
00:17:32
Speaker
having to make the decision to put it up for sale versus selling it. Evidently, there's always that angel and devil on your shoulder scenario, and there's always a logical answer, but we're all collectors. We all love this stuff. What is that battle?
Collector vs. Dealer Dilemma
00:17:47
Speaker
You find an incredible watch and you're just dying to have it in your collection, but you've got to make that decision when it comes to your business. Oh, not every day, Kevin.
00:17:57
Speaker
Every day, there's always something sitting in the safe that's sort of, you know, at the back of your mind, I should really keep that. Maybe you photograph it and you're about to post it on Instagram and then you think, no, do you know what? Maybe I should type that away for me or am I going to find another one of those? So there's a very fine line between collecting and dealing. And I always joke that, you know, if I collect, if I kept everything that I liked,
00:18:26
Speaker
I'd have no money and no business. So it's like just having that balance of enough stock that I'm trading, you know, because it's how I earn my living, but also making sure that I'm not just trading out really special pieces that mean something to me. You know, it's a tough balance, but capital is always the thing that comes and gives you the reality check because if you talk away a few too many nice things,
00:18:55
Speaker
you know, you check the bank balance and you think, okay, fine, we need to, we need to revolve things around. So it's like, like a collector, it's just constant. And it's all part of the fun though, of course. Yeah, of course. And I guess at the very least you get to handle them and enjoy them and experience them. Exactly. Like dealing in some ways with revolving collection, you know?
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, a lot of dealers say that, you know, the watches they sell are also their personal collection because they own them. Yeah, absolutely agree with that. And I tried to kind of channel that with not selling things that I don't connect with and not selling things that I probably wouldn't own myself, you know.
00:19:41
Speaker
like condition wise or even just the types of watches, I don't want to sell a new, you know, green OP Rolex, even if there's a thousand pounds profit in it, because like, if I put that on my Instagram, or my website, it just doesn't fit with my overall kind of style and ethos, you know, so
00:20:05
Speaker
I think sometimes you've got to park your business brain and think actually more as a collector. And what's in keeping with my style and taste? Absolutely. I mean, and that's how you probably end up attracting more customers and clients that like the same stuff. And it just makes your business even easier. It's a kind of law of attraction type thing where you post a certain type of watch, you buy and sell a certain type of watch.
00:20:32
Speaker
they seem to end up gravitating to you. If you're a specialist in something or have a particular like for something, people see that. And if you're true to that, particularly on Instagram or you do a YouTube thing or whatever, people will notice that that's your thing and then they'll come to you for that.
00:20:53
Speaker
And I'm sure you've probably bought watches like that. People know you like those vintage Ralph Lauren or vintage Benoit, whatever. And then they see that and they come to you because of that. So I think that's important. Absolutely. And I refer a ton of people to you actually for the Benoit because, you know, a dime piece has put us in her little, I guess,
00:21:16
Speaker
category of Benoit boys, but I'm always telling people that like you usually have one to two of those on deck to sell. And if you can find good ones or if anyone's interested in them, I was like, Hey, go, go message Alex, because I'm not a dealer and I don't, I don't keep these in my safe. I just have one. No, you're not looking to sell that one. That's for sure. So it's tricky with the Benoit because certain Cartier models, like if you have a nice tank Louis or Benoit, or even mustard Cartier tank,
00:21:47
Speaker
or Santos, Carre, whatever, it's very hard to actually stock them. So having this conversation with someone the other day, I would love to have three or four examples for sale all the time. But sadly, there aren't that many around to do that. And the demand for those pieces is so high that they sell very fast. So I do try and have a banroir on hand, as you mentioned, whenever I can. But like at the moment, for example, I haven't got one.
00:22:17
Speaker
because they're very hard to find. And in the UK, you know, it's not like France maybe where Cartier was sold a little more heavily or they're more popular. There aren't as many Cartier watches like that probably in the UK. So yeah, I'm always looking for them. If anyone's listening, DM me. The thing I find interesting about the Benoit is that
00:22:42
Speaker
you know, Cartier made tons of these watches, like a bunch of them, especially the quartz ones, right? You could find the quartz ones day in and day out, any time. But it really seems like they didn't make a lot of these manually wound ones, and they're not that easy to find. No, they're not. You know, watch to watch these vintage Cartier pieces, particularly manual ones, like you say, Paris, or, you know, if you want to go rarer, they're London watches. They are really rare, and so,
00:23:11
Speaker
Cartier and the way that it's increased in popularity and value, it's not a hype thing. It has substance. A nice vintage Benoit is so much rarer than a nice vintage Datejust. So yeah, I can understand it. How about a watch that maybe you've been interested in for a long time and a client comes along and asks you to source one for them?
00:23:36
Speaker
you get to watch in and you're suddenly now less interested in it when it comes to having one in your personal collection. Does that happen often where you get something in your hands and you're like, oh, you know, I actually don't care for this that much? Yeah, that does happen for sure. I think like, you know, searching for something sometimes can be more attractive than owning it really. It's like the challenge is maybe to find it and then when you do find it or source it, then the
00:24:06
Speaker
shine goes a little maybe but I think dealing you get so many things through your hands that you've got to be quite careful what you you do latch onto and what you do keep as I mentioned before it's very easy to
00:24:22
Speaker
to accumulate too many things. Sourcing wise, I try and stick to the kind of staple pieces that I know that I can find because sourcing is quite tricky. You could have someone request something very rare
00:24:41
Speaker
on the 1st of January but you might not find it until the 1st of July or the 1st of September by which time they may have gone off the idea you know so yeah tastes what I've learnt is my own tastes and the taste of my customers and watch collectors can change within a week you know a week or two so sourcing is tricky from that point of view
00:25:07
Speaker
Your packaging and brand is super recognizable with your tan houndstooth check.
00:25:14
Speaker
For Alex Stevens Vintage specifically, how crucial do you think building a brand is or having a memorable unboxing experiences for your clients?
Brand Identity in Watch Market
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so many people selling watches now that if you can lend that slight personal touch or you can have some level of individuality, I think that adds a great deal of value to the experience. If you go on Chrono24,
00:25:44
Speaker
you type in a, I don't know, Datejust or something, you go through the images. They are quite homogenous. You know, there's a lot of light box photography, lots of white backgrounds, lots of photoshopped watches and things. And I think people, especially if you're buying maybe your first vintage watch or you have a few watches, people would like to buy from someone that they can get to know a little bit.
00:26:12
Speaker
that they think are sourcing the watches and packaging them and shipping them themselves, which I do all of those things. You know, I'm very much my hands on with everything. And the personal element is key. I think it's very easy to get lost in a sea of sellers now. And it's fact that there are lots of watch dealers now because watches are so popular as we've touched upon.
00:26:43
Speaker
And having some degree of individuality is so important to stand out. And I think photography is a massive part of that, where I've always thought if you could scroll through Instagram and all the usernames and handles were hidden, could you recognize the collector or the dealer from their image alone? And that's where the houndstooth coat came in. The idea for that came in.
00:27:13
Speaker
that would be featured in every image to make it recognizable. And I don't know, there's just something about that pattern that just fits the era and the style of the watches that I'm trying to source. Oh, it's perfect. Yeah, I love it. Every time I see it, I'm like, that's Alex. Well, I'm glad to hear that, because that's the idea. But I must say, this coat, I've been very anxious about wearing the coat, because I've thought, if I lose it,
00:27:40
Speaker
My whole brand, I'm never going to find the same coats again. My girlfriend actually managed to find the exact same coat from the same seller in the same size recently on a vintage clothes reselling site. I'm very grateful to her because I now have two just in case. That's good. I think you got to put both in the safe just to protect them an extra little bit.
00:28:05
Speaker
So you're in London, a place that is extremely rich in history, especially for some of the brands that you specialize in, like Cartier. Do you find the collector market in London to be overly enthusiastic about brands like Cartier London simply because of their geographical location and making that connection? Well, it's interesting. I mean, there are,
00:28:34
Speaker
some very serious Cartier London collectors in London and you know when I was working in the auction world at Watches of Knightsbridge we had plenty of Cartier London pieces through because naturally there are more probably in London than anywhere else just geographically that makes sense but you would be surprised how many for example Cartier London collectors are based you know in New York or in
00:29:03
Speaker
West Coast America or in Asia or in Italy. Because London is such an iconic city and it's great to be a part of it, I think those watches appeal to the whole world because London is such a recognizable and loved city worldwide. So I wouldn't say that Cartier London watches sell any better in London or sell only to London.
00:29:33
Speaker
internationally desired as we know like probably one of the most in-demand pieces there is at the moment. But I would say my and other London dealers jobs to try and uncover some of these watches because I often walk down the streets of you know Holland Park or Chelsea or Richmond and I think
00:29:57
Speaker
look at these townhouses and I think there must be some original pebbles and maybe a crash or, you know, even just some tank tank London's or London
Hunting Rare Cartier Watches
00:30:09
Speaker
Benoit. It has to be, right? It has to be. And so I'm trying to kind of hatch a master plan of how to uncover some of these watches, but it's, it's easier said than done.
00:30:22
Speaker
I guess you gotta start just leaving a business card on all these doorsteps. I suppose so, yeah. Specifically if they have Cartier London watches, that's it. Yeah, maybe a little flyer needs to be made. Yeah, exactly.
00:30:36
Speaker
A lot of us prefer mechanical movements over courts, it's no doubt. It's just kind of one of those things as a collector, you're sort of taught to prefer from the beginning stages, I would say, right? Most people try and deter you away from courts, say you wanted mechanical movement, more value, obviously more history with the mechanical movement and more
00:30:58
Speaker
i guess effort that goes into producing a watch however. We're seeing a lot of people care less about this especially when it comes to brand like cardier. Why do you think that is i mean that the tank must line is primarily. Probably ninety eight percent i would say all courts and we're seeing people all the sudden throw that. That feeling or ethos of having to have mechanical out the window but i think.
00:31:25
Speaker
Mustang is a great example of where it's probably more to do with the look and the design and just simply owning a tank. I sell quite a lot of those watches and they are, as you say, many of them are quartz. But I find the types of people buying those watches are
00:31:46
Speaker
ones who, perhaps it's a first time vintage watch buy, they don't necessarily have an affinity or particular desire for the watch to be mechanical. Their main concern is owning a tank and kind of entering that dynasty in a way of all of these icons and legends and notable people who've worn the watches. You know, if they think about
00:32:15
Speaker
I don't know, Princess Diana and her tank. Okay, it was solid gold, but I don't actually know if it was quartz or mechanical, that one. Probably quartz, given the era she was wearing it, maybe. But they just want to be in the club of owning and wearing that shape. And it's more about the watch as an icon than a kind of mechanical or functional
00:32:43
Speaker
that. And, you know, there is a certain convenience to quartz, particularly if you're not a big, big watch collector, you don't just put it on your wrist and go, my everyday Tank Louis is quartz. So I do get it. And obviously price point because for a Tank Louis Paris mechanical now, you're going to be looking at maybe
00:33:08
Speaker
between five and seven thousand pounds and is not accessible for everyone. So I'm a big fan of the Mustang for that reason because they allow people to access the tank model for that, you know, less than 1800 pounds. So, you know, it's a good value proposition from that point of view.
00:33:31
Speaker
It is one of those watches that as soon as you put one on the wrist, all those feelings and antics of needing something mechanical kind of goes out the window.
Quartz vs. Mechanical: A Collector's Choice
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. It's like, I'm wearing a tank, so who cares? It doesn't matter. Just want to wear a tank. Tank is not something about it. Tank is just like this mystical, elusive design that when you put one on, you just feel different.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think it matters. And that's coming from someone who likes mechanical watches. I'm very happy wearing a quartz tank or selling one. Yeah, I mean, my wife has one.
00:34:12
Speaker
It is mechanical, so it kind of goes against everything I'm saying, but it is an old tank must, and it's gold plated, and it's not your typical tank must, and I wear it from time to time, and it's great. It's great fun, and you don't need to worry about it too much. If you were to wear, like I'm wearing right now, the Tank London, Tank Louis, you've got to be a bit careful with that, because it's a little bit more fragile. It's much rarer.
00:34:41
Speaker
a quartz master, a quartz tank, Louis. It's great. It's great for all occasions. Let's talk about your personal collection for a bit, speaking of your Cartier London.
Personal Collection and Brand Exploration
00:34:54
Speaker
You recently sat down with Tom from Watts on Watches and showed us some of your collection. Awesome video. Some rare stuff like that lapis dial aspery was incredible. What have you been looking to add to the stable lately? I think
00:35:10
Speaker
You know, it's like I was saying, dealings like one big revolving collection, and mine's fluctuated a great deal from maybe 18 months ago, I had 30 or 40% more pieces than I do now. And it's been gradually honing and, you know, culling, essentially, selling a few pieces.
00:35:34
Speaker
and reinvesting into things that match my taste more now. And I think also you never know what's going to come up. So having a bit of dry powder in the bank, just in case that, I don't know, Cartier, London, Sontré or something like that pops up. You don't want to be too dripping in watches because there's always another one around the corner.
00:36:01
Speaker
So my own collection wise, it's been about slimming it down a little, honing it. And Piaget, I'm really kind of more interested in at the moment because I feel those similarities with Cartier to a certain degree. And with Piaget, you've got that whole stone dial thing, which Cartier is obviously you don't really see that. So with Piaget, you could own like
00:36:29
Speaker
a lapis tank or a malachite tank style watch at less than the cost of a Tank Louis quartz. So Piaget is one that I'd like to add maybe one or two more of. But yeah, it's I mean, even like the video we did with Watson Watchers was great fun. I watched that back the other day and I there's a couple of things in there that I think no, that could definitely go and it's
00:36:59
Speaker
evolution, I suppose. It's why it's such a nourishing and giving hobby and profession. Yeah, for sure.
00:37:11
Speaker
I think Piaget is one of the greatest value buys out there right now. And I think people are realizing it, but they're doing the same thing they did before when Cartier was affordable. And they're realizing it, but they're not buying them, which is great for people like you and I. Yeah, I know. I suppose we're in a quite fortunate position where we have some degree of foresight.
00:37:40
Speaker
And you can look at the way that a brand like Cartier has moved in the last three to five years and you can see similarities to Piaget and maybe you can get in on it a little bit earlier. So I'm grateful for that foresight that we have just from being involved in the market more deeply.
00:38:02
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything or anything in particular or a watch in particular that you've been hunting for for a long time and you just haven't found the right one? I would love to add one of the more
00:38:17
Speaker
flamboyant Cartier London designs to my collection, like obviously I have a tank, that's your classic, but to find, for me like it would be a dream in London here to find, I don't know, a Sontré,
00:38:34
Speaker
or a dice or a pebble or, I mean, crash, you know, I'm not that optimistic. But, you know, or even a nice London banoire would be great. I've had them in the past, but sold them sadly. Yeah, a driver's car, anything like that, that really has that swinging 60s London energy and essence to the design.
00:39:03
Speaker
and there's a bit more of a statement than the Tank Louis. That's what I'm hunting for at the moment. But as you know, these watches really are rare and made in small numbers. So yeah, it's what excites me every day to get out of bed and start hunting for these watches. I don't think that will ever die. What's a watch in your collection most folks would be surprised that you owned?
00:39:29
Speaker
I suppose they'd be surprised to see me own a watch with diamonds on, because it's not necessarily fitting with my style, but I've got an APs, a skeletonized AP in white gold with diamonds, original diamond set, luxe and bezel, which was commissioned by the Sultan of Oman.
00:39:52
Speaker
and it's got a sort of custom but original Amani Kanjar rotor so the rotor in gold has been crafted to include an Amani Kanjar and you know I don't think I could ever pull that watch off but I've enjoyed owning it as part of my you know collection in inverted commas for
00:40:17
Speaker
six months or whatever it's been, a year perhaps, just to appreciate the quality and rarity of it. I don't think I've ever worn it once. The watch is insane. Yeah, you'll see it on Instagram soon because I'm going to be putting it up for sale.
00:40:37
Speaker
who knew me quite well. If they saw me wearing that watch, they'd think, yeah, what's happened to Alex? They'd be a little confused. Is there anything else that you love to collect? I mean, there's so many great markets to go to on the weekends in London. It's hard not to want to acquire other things and collect other things besides watches. I mean, I've got a
00:41:04
Speaker
a couple of original film posters. I've got like an original blow up, blow up a huge poster from the Cannes Film Festival, which is a, yeah, I love that film, Antonioni with them. Yeah, great, great film from again, that sort of swinging 60s era. I think it's 1966, that film. You can just imagine the main character. He doesn't wear a carte London, but you could imagine him doing so.
00:41:33
Speaker
So I suppose, yeah, maybe something, yeah, a few of those are nice to connect with that era. But I think my life has been so focused on watches from such a young age that other things just don't give me the same kick. So it's a little bit of a boring answer, but really watches are the one for me.
00:41:58
Speaker
Before we wrap up here with the collector's zoom rundown, is there anything else that's exciting that maybe you want to share about Alex Stevens Vintage before we wrap up here? Any exciting plans and plans to list a bunch of more watches that everyone should should look out for?
00:42:13
Speaker
Well, watch wise, certainly kind of more of the same and lots of nice vintage Cartiers coming, you know, across all models. Plans wise, I suppose I'm traveling to the US for the first time in mid to late September, which is going to be very exciting. I'm headed to New York. So, you know, I've been doing business with people in New York for years.
00:42:46
Speaker
and I've made some kind of virtual watch friends, including yourself, that way. So it's going to be great to come to the US for the first time and get a little experience and taste of New York vintage watch culture and the scene over there, because I think it's such a great scene with so many, you know, big
00:43:11
Speaker
collectors and dealers and I'm looking forward to visiting a few shops and a couple of events whilst I'm out there. So I'm very excited for that.
Upcoming New York Trip
00:43:24
Speaker
Love it. Well, the US welcomes you with open arms and hopefully you have a great trip there and can at least bring some watches home. Absolutely. Well, that's the end. I thought I'm not going to go to New York without, you know, I can't get on the flight back unless I've bought something. So that's my challenge when I get over there.
00:43:41
Speaker
I've got to find something interesting to bring back. All right, Alex, let's wrap it up here with the collector's gene rundown. And you can answer these questions based on personal collecting, or if you want to answer them based on being a dealer, you can do that as well. It's kind of free reign. Answer as you please. Great.
Missed Opportunities in Collecting
00:44:00
Speaker
What's the one that got away? The one that got away was a recent one, sadly, and it still stings a little bit. It was a London Benoit Alonge.
00:44:11
Speaker
with London on the dial. It came, yeah, I know. It came up here in London as these things do. And it was from another dealer who I transact with, who kind of was dealing with the owner. And we were trying to kind of buy it together. And I had to make an offer, which is always very difficult, you know, and out of the blue offer without seeing the watch.
00:44:40
Speaker
I made an offer, I thought it was a good strong offer and I was very, very keen to own this watch because it would fit in the category of, you know, that more flamboyant Cartier London piece that I'm looking for. And I had a few broken nights sleep about that watch, but sadly it fell away, the deal petered out and I didn't get it. So I'm fearing every day I'm going to open my Instagram and see it on another dealer's page, so.
00:45:09
Speaker
Hopefully it comes back your way. Yeah, if I do see it, I'll be straight in there, Dan's trying to buy it. Yeah, for sure. How about the on deck circle? So what's next for you in your collection? I know you mentioned maybe you're trying to hone things down, so maybe you're trying to get a little bit more precision in terms of what you're collecting.
00:45:31
Speaker
Yes, I would say, sort of trends-wise, if we're looking to the future, trends-wise, I feel like small watches for sure are becoming more in vogue. And, you know, like we've talked about the Benoit today, which we're both fans of, traditionally perceived as a lady's watch, but my God, does it look good on the right man's wrist. And in mainstream culture and media, you see
00:45:58
Speaker
Like, you know, for example, the one that comes to mind, Timothy Chalamet and his lady's panther he's been wearing, Tyler the Creator. Obviously, some of the vintage Cartiers are small, small pieces. So I think smaller watches are going to be more of a thing. But I was actually thinking, looking back, I was looking at a photo of Miles Davis recently, and he's wearing this curb link bracelet, very thin, which was a watch. So, you know, it's not a new thing, new watches.
00:46:28
Speaker
George Harrison wore a London Benoit back in the 60s. So, yeah, people with great taste and style have been doing it since then. How about the unobtainable? Right now, unobtainable is like a London crash or a London pebble for me, dice, all those models I've mentioned recently. Clearly, the Benoit-Alangue is unobtainable as well.
00:46:55
Speaker
by what I recounted the story. So that's unobtainable for me personally, but I still live in hope. And then in general, like a new Rolex, that's pretty unobtainable, you know? Yeah, that's unobtainable to a lot of people. Yeah, yeah. I find it so hard to get my head around the whole modern thing. You know, if a new GMT from Rolex is six and a half, seven thousand pound retail,
00:47:24
Speaker
And then they're trading for 15,000 pounds on the secondary market. What a great advert for vintage because you could get a lovely, you know, 1675 mat or, or even guilt, maybe gloss guilt for that money, uh, for the same price and the far era for far more interesting, you know, in my opinion. So yeah, vintage all the way.
00:47:49
Speaker
The page one rewrites, so money, no object, you can collect anything besides watches. What would it be?
If Money Were No Object: Car Collection
00:47:57
Speaker
Thought about this quite a lot, quite hard, trying to channel the money, no object element, particularly. And I think because of that, it would be classic cars, probably specifically like 70s and 80s, BMWs, 11, the E30s,
00:48:17
Speaker
the series sharks, like three litre CSL, and I used to own an E30, but London Life made it sadly too prohibitive to own. But like the storage and the maintenance and the taxes and all of that with classic cars, when you compare them to watches, like the running costs are so high. So if money's no object, a few nice classic cars would be great.
00:48:47
Speaker
Love it. And that era of BMW, uh, the design language is incredible. Oh, it's, it's just the best. Like seeing, seeing a new release BMW now, I just think, Oh my God, what happened? You know, it's the best era. How about the goat? Who do you look up to in the collecting world? In the UK, we don't really have that many like mega dealers, mega collectors in the US. Obviously you've got like, you know, Eric Koo, Andrew Scheer, Bob Maron.
00:49:16
Speaker
Eric Wind. But in the UK, we don't have that many. But there is one for me who I sort of grew up as a team watching, who's Tom Bolt, who's known as the watch guru. And he's a British watch dealer and collector, been in the game like 30, 35 years. And he was kind of the one that made me realize that watch dealing was a genuine like career option.
00:49:45
Speaker
And I sort of became aware of him from a YouTube documentary called Time Machines, which I discovered just as I was getting into buying and selling watches, and I must have watched that thing 20 times. And he's a great inspiration to me now, like longevity-wise, the range of pieces he trades. And he's got that, you know, addicted kind of, he loves the hunt and the chase. And I really respect and relate to that.
00:50:15
Speaker
The hunt or the ownership? 100% the hunt. It's got to be. Ever since I was 14 and started out, it's always been about the hunt. It's the best drug out there trying to find something. And you've got to be a bit obsessed and a bit addicted, I think, to do this for a living. And so yeah, hunting till the day I die. And my dad's the same. And I hope that that fire is never going to go out.
00:50:40
Speaker
It's funny, it is the best drug in the world and it gets a little dicey when you mix it with a cocktail. I'm sure we both probably bought watches after a cocktail or two, so I know exactly what you mean. Yep, a little liquid courage for sure. Most importantly, Alex, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene?
00:51:04
Speaker
I had to think about this one a little bit, just because I feel so inherently a dealer, but I realized after some thought, it is a resounding yes. Dealers are collectors, and collectors are dealers in a way, and the genes of collecting and dealing are so intertwined, I'm sure they're probably the same thing. Like I said earlier, to be a great dealer, you gotta be a great collector, because you're just curating a collection, ultimately. So 100%, yes.
00:51:33
Speaker
Well, that's probably one of the best answers I've gotten yet. And I couldn't agree more than with the comparison of being a collector and a dealer. It totally makes sense. Exactly. Yeah, they're one and the same. You know, just maybe a collector does it for fun and a dealer does it for money. But aside from that, they're virtually the same.
00:51:53
Speaker
Love it. Alex, thank you so much for coming on. It's always great to chat and catch up with you. I wish we could do more of these conversations in this form and maybe we should make it a more of a habit so we could catch up more often, but it's always a pleasure chatting with you. Best of luck on your trip to New York if I don't get there to see you in person and make sure you come home with something special.
00:52:14
Speaker
Thank you very much, Cameron. It was a pleasure to chat, and I'm sure I'll message you here at the time for a few recommendations for the US. Anytime, my pleasure. All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.