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Episode 17 - Chaim Schalk
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Chaim Schalk is a professional beach volleyball player, olympian and AVP Champion. He represented the Canadian Beach National Team in the 2016 Rio Olympics and he now represents Team USA internationally, making a run for the 2024 Olympics in Paris. We talked about how growing up in a competitive household helped Chaim become a professional beach volleyball player, the dream of being a professional athlete vs the reality of it, and the challenges of being a father while spending a lot of days on the road.
Follow him on Instagram @chaimer
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Transcript
Holiday Experiences and Unique Recording Setup
00:00:11
Speaker
Hello and welcome to What's Next. I'm Joel and this is my show. I'm recording this week from Chicago. We were in town for some Christmas stuff. I'm in my in-laws basement in between the furnace turning on and off to record this.
Meet Kame Shulk: Olympic History and Ambitions
00:00:28
Speaker
Today on the show, I'm really excited to share my conversation with Kame Shulk. Kame is a professional beach volleyball player, an Olympian and AVP champion.
00:00:37
Speaker
He represented the Canadian Beach National Team in the 2016 Rio Olympics, finishing 9th, and he now represents Team USA, making a run for the 2024 Olympics in Paris. CAME is also one of my very best childhood friends. Our dads worked together when we were kids, and for a period of time we were as much brothers as we were friends.
00:00:59
Speaker
Some time had passed though since we last spoke. The last time I saw him was in I think 2019 when he came through Chicago for a beach volleyball AVP tournament.
Reconnecting with Kame: Friendship and Life Paths
00:01:11
Speaker
But right away it was one of those things where you just pick up right where you left off and like no time had passed.
00:01:16
Speaker
Both our lives have gone on really different paths and Kaim has gone on to become an Olympian and beach volleyball champion and I wanted to talk with him about his journey to professionally playing a sport that so many of us loved and dreamed of playing when we were kids and what it's like now that he's achieved the dream and it was just a lot of fun to hang with Kaim for an hour to record the conversation so I'm excited to share it with you now.
00:01:47
Speaker
Yo, can you hear me? What's up, Joe? I can hear you. Can you hear me? I can hear you so good. Do I get my AirPods going right? They look great. I actually have, should I wear these ones instead? These are AirPod Max. These actually might be better. Should I try them? Yeah, sure.
00:02:03
Speaker
Oh man, those sound better. Good to know. Those are- Yeah, these are amazing. Those are the best headphones ever made. I'm quite convinced of that. Yeah, do you have a pair? For flights, they're unbelievable. Yeah. You know, Mo got me a pair for my birthday. I'm shamefully Dutch. I'm too Dutch. I can't own those. They're too expensive.
00:02:30
Speaker
I've gotten less Dutch over the years, I think. What I did though, instead of paying $600, I found some dude for an offer up for like 230 bucks I got for like slightly used ones. That's my way of justifying it. Well, it's a really good deal. Plus like I pay so much for flights that I'm like one flight where I don't have to hear anybody around me is just worth it.
00:02:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I'm deal guy.
Parenting Insights and Encouragement
00:02:53
Speaker
I just look for deals. Yeah, no, that's smart. That's a good idea. I actually have most painting over here. Oh, don't look at that. Sweet. I just forgot about that. How's it going? No big deal. Where are you living right now? I'm in LA. Well, oh, Manhattan Beach. Okay.
00:03:10
Speaker
Do we start already or are we jumping into it? Yeah, we're just going. Is that how we do it? Is that what's next? That's perfect. I won't drop any F-bombs. No, I'm just kidding. F-bombs are loud. I prefer it actually. Yeah, I'm in Manhattan Beach. Obviously, I've been here for a long time for beach volleyball and then obviously my daughter, Cole, is here.
00:03:36
Speaker
I actually realized that when I sent you an email, I accidentally sent you a picture of her. Yeah, I saw that. I was like... You know how when you're in your iPhone and you're like selecting photos to send? I was just trying to select one, but apparently I sent you one of Koa Rock Climbing.
00:03:52
Speaker
Couple days ago so good time looks like she was loving it. It was a good time. Yeah, we bought the five passes So she's gonna be a rock climber in the next couple months. Does she like it? She does she gets like halfway up and then she's like that's far enough and then jumps off and like floats down Yeah, slowly, but she really enjoyed it. She wants to go back so that's like half the battle with kids I feel like is like getting them excited to like want to do it again because I
00:04:17
Speaker
Then the anticipation is what's so fun. It's like they get so excited and then they're like, we're going to go on Thursday. She's like, yeah, let's go. I know. It's the best. How are your kids doing? It is the best. They're good. They're nine and six now, so. That's wild. Yeah. Luca is really getting into soccer. He's loving soccer. And when is he started jiu-jitsu this fall?
00:04:38
Speaker
Nice. And when you watch your kids really like something and just get into something and anticipate it and think about it and try it out in their own time. And there's something that happens as the parent where you just want to encourage that. It's like I don't even almost don't even care what it is. I just want them to be into something. For sure. Yeah, to have that excitement and that like
00:05:02
Speaker
Watching them, it's like, wow, I wish I was a kid again. You get so excited. You get so excited about little things. Finding those things that they enjoy and they love doing is like half the battle, like you said. I want to get Koa into more sports. How old is Koa now? She's four and a half. She'll be five in April. One of my good buddies here is getting his daughter into tennis.
00:05:31
Speaker
So I'm thinking of like getting her some tennis lessons as well. She's great. Um, yeah, we're living in Manhattan beach, um, which is awesome and been here for a long time and with beach volleyball. And then, and then obviously I'll be here for, for a long time too, doing the single dad life, which is, which is, has its challenges, but it's been amazing. And right now it's off season, which is, which is so great. Like I've traveled so much and it's just nice to be around for a little bit and with, with her more and.
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of where we're at. Awesome, awesome. Dude, I'm like, if you can hear me like shivering a little bit, I just, like my trainer. Did you just get out of the cold plunge? I just did a cold, I did, my trainer's like, okay, I've been having some knee issues and he's like, okay, take a cold plunge tomorrow morning. I have a cold plunge in my yard and I'm like, all right. So I did it like 20 minutes ago and now I'm like. Your core temp is a little low. I should have done it after because now I feel like I'm like,
00:06:27
Speaker
But your mind is sharp, your mind is sharp. Yeah, you're supposed to feel like there's supposed to be so many benefits to that. Have you ever done it? I haven't. I would like to try it, but I think it's one of those things where if I could do it without having to make any investment to actually see if I could... I feel like I'd just bail on it because it would hurt too bad the first few times. Oh, I got you. I mean, you can always try it in your tub or something, but if you have a tub.
00:06:52
Speaker
That's true, that's true. But there are lots of benefits, I think, in terms of health stuff. Waking the body up for a day. Yeah, I'm certainly convinced on the health. There seems to have been enough studies that it seems to have a lot of benefits, mostly almost mental. Mental stuff is just life, I feel like. Yeah, that's where I need the most help.
00:07:15
Speaker
which is like a large part of the reason why you're kind of doing this, right? Like feeling okay and being happy and all of that's like through the mind, which is like...
00:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, I've worked a lot with in the last years with sports hikes and with obviously sport related stuff, but like the mind is so powerful. It's, it's crazy. Like the difference between making a good decision and a bad decision is all based on like so many inner things and like getting into like a certain, a certain spot.
00:07:45
Speaker
Within yourself where you can feel confident and feel happy. It's like changes your whole like perspective moving forward. So, um, yeah, yeah, sports stuff has been like fascinating that way to me because you just get pressure like in life to just so much pressure in life. It's like, yeah.
00:08:01
Speaker
What are we here for? What are we doing? What are we doing next? That stuff goes through my head a lot, especially because I'm getting more towards the later parts of my beach career. It leaves yourself with a lot of questions, realistically.
Inside Beach Volleyball: Training and Pressures
00:08:20
Speaker
Well, let's get into it. Let's get into it. Let's do it. You're a professional beach volleyball player. You play in the AVP. Correct. Yeah. So far, so good.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, ABP and the FIVB, the international circuits called the FIVB. Okay. And so that's where I was for most of the season. But yeah, ABP is like the American domestic tour, which is like what we all love flying. And then the world tour is what you played to try to go to the Olympics.
00:08:48
Speaker
Okay. And so can you just walk us through what it actually means to be a professional beach volleyball player? Like a lot of kids, I certainly did dreams of being a professional athlete, but we have no idea what that actually is like. I think, I think it's a lot harder than we think. No, that's a good point. I mean, so I started every day with a cold blend, you know, I don't do that, but I did, I did today, but, but yeah, that's kind of like the.
00:09:18
Speaker
The part that has been kind of funny to me is that like a lot of people
00:09:22
Speaker
have looked at my life over the last 10, 15 years and they're like, wow, man, like you have the best life ever. All you do is like travel around in these cool places, playing a sport. Like you're playing a sport. Like we were when we were kids and you're making money and you're in your, uh, like your life is the best thing ever. But, but yeah, it's, there's a lot behind the scenes that like people don't understand. And, and I got, I got a, I talked a little bit about the mindset stuff a second ago, but like,
00:09:49
Speaker
The pressure and the you know you want you want to be winning you need to be winning basically is what what the whole process thought is you're like if you're not winning then you're failing and so like you wear it all you where you basically wear it all so.
00:10:04
Speaker
As a beach athlete, right now, I'm in my off-season, so I'm basically just in the gym and doing a little bit of sand work, but nothing crazy, but day-to-day stuff is every day in season, I'll be going to the beach and training for a couple hours in the morning and then I'll...
00:10:19
Speaker
generally go grab grab a bite and then drive out to my trainer who lives in the valley like he's like live forty five minutes away a trainer that we that me and my partner try born we know we hire him on the side to be our part of our team because we want to have the best you want to be ahead of the game you want to have someone who's gonna.
00:10:42
Speaker
be in your corner, kind of like getting you physically where you need to be. He helps you develop a long-term plan for your maintenance and your... Yeah. Long-term plan, maintenance body, like the whole season plan, like where we need to be, when are we peaking? Is he travel with you too? He doesn't. Okay. Just our coach will travel with us, basically, because it's so expensive to bring people around the world, but... Yeah.
00:11:03
Speaker
So like number one, like if we can't, if you're not physically ready to play at like at least 85% or better, you're not going to be winning a lot because everybody's so physical and good. It's like, if you're off a little bit, it's going to be tough. So like the number one thing that I needed to be doing is taking care of my body. At this point in my life, obviously like when I was younger, I didn't have all the aches and pains as much.
00:11:26
Speaker
Basically, I'm training, I'm lifting, I'm taking care of the body, I'm seeing physio, and I've got support from USA Volleyball here, so I have a second gym that I go to for where I can get physio basically every day if I want. I'll get massage once a week. You are living the dream, man. Exactly. A massage where I'm like, hey, can you beat me up today and just go super deep on my quads and hammies? And they're like, you're just going and getting foot rubs? I'm like, no, that's not really how it works.
00:11:56
Speaker
So I can see, I can see how, so, so like there's two sides of it, right? Like for me, I look at my, my life and what I'm doing. I'm like so grateful. It's like I have the best, I do have the best life and I feel like it's been amazing experience and like growing myself, learning who I am and then like pushing myself to, to pushing the boundaries basically has been like the coolest thing ever, but, but it's a lot of work. And then I'm going to tournaments all around the world where,
00:12:23
Speaker
I don't have great nutrition sometimes. It's hard to find a gym. It's hard to, you're going to, so like in the last two months I've been to, there was a stretch where we went.
00:12:32
Speaker
I'm like, Rome, home for five days. Then we went to Mexico, home for five days. Then we went to India, home for five days. Then we went to China, home for five days. Then we went to Thailand and then home for five. It was like a stretch of like, wow, this is ridiculous. Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot. Barely getting home. I'm getting like one lift in with my trainer, trying to take care of my body as much as I can. My knees been not great and then kind of like,
00:12:57
Speaker
You know, you got to prepare for the next tournament and then it's all right now it's all Olympic qualification. So we have to be on the road playing these events and it's, they're not events that pay a lot of money. They're, they're, they're called challengers. Um, so it's like teams 10 through 30 in the world are battling to basically get as many points as possible to kind of put yourself in the Olympic position for next season, basically. Yeah.
Career Challenges: Team Dynamics and Mental Struggles
00:13:21
Speaker
So we, we played like 22 events this year and.
00:13:25
Speaker
I mean, at times, I've been miserable this season. Straight up, it's been difficult. In terms of our team, we kind of underperformed for what both of us expect, which there's a lot that goes into a team. And this is a newer team with Tri. So we honestly didn't find the level that we believe that we are capable of.
00:13:51
Speaker
Which is difficult in sport when you're not quite where you want to be or somethings are a little bit off and so it just kind of adds more and more and more snowball effect of like of all the different types of pressure and i'm trying to yeah i'm trying to be as real with you as possible here because like it's not.
00:14:08
Speaker
It's not enjoyable when you're in those positions where it's like, I'm pushing, I'm pressing, but we're not where we need to be. So you have doubts, doubts creep in and then you're like, is this the right, am I doing the right thing? Like, is this the right strategy? Do we have the right coach? Like that stuff gets really difficult. One, you might be feeling too, like as you're getting older, you're also seeing, okay, I only have so many more chances to do this. For sure. And the difficult thing is that like,
00:14:35
Speaker
As you get older, you know, your body is not going to be probably quite the same as it was five or six years ago, like physically, but mentally mental side of stuff is like the biggest thing in the sport. So it's like, I still feel like I have my best years ahead of me, which is crazy because if I can perform the things that I need to perform well in crunch time in a match, then
00:14:56
Speaker
than I'll be winning more matches than I would have won years ago, right? Because you just have that little 5% difference that, that can help you. So yeah, I love what I do, but it's like a lot, it's a lot. And I am looking forward to the time when.
00:15:12
Speaker
I'm not having to travel so much, be gone all year. I want to spend more time with my family. My plan is to likely play for Paris, hopefully qualify. Paris is next year? Yeah.
00:15:29
Speaker
I can still play AVP for another four or five years because that tour is a lot more mellow. I probably wouldn't have to train quite as much. I would probably train smarter and then I would just be traveling within the US. You've been doing AVP which is cool in Chicago obviously.
00:15:47
Speaker
Yeah that tour is totally different vibes it's like i can travel on a three hour flight play for three days and then and then travel back home i think especially the part that gets past me a bit is that like i don't really take a lot of time to like sit back and be like you know
00:16:04
Speaker
This is really really cool cuz you get stuck in it. It's kind of sad but like I'll go to the beach in Hermosa in Manhattan is so beautiful and I'll go there for training and I'll be like man I gotta go I gotta go to training and this isn't gonna be that enjoyable But then like I won't even take that like one minute where I go and sit there and just look at the water and be like man This is incredible where I am. Yeah, and then I'll go through phases where I'm like, oh dude I'm so grateful and I feel like I feel it all right now and I
00:16:29
Speaker
What do you think dictates those different phases? Is it when you're doing well and winning, then you sort of feel more grateful? Yeah, winning helps everything. I mean, it gives you those good feelings and it gives you more time to like take a second to enjoy what you're doing. And I try to win or lose, like try to have a short term memory either way kind of, because if you like are too excited about a win and
00:16:56
Speaker
to upset about a loss and then you just again you just kinda wear your emotions too much a little bit but i think what brings it out more for me is when like
00:17:05
Speaker
I have my daughter at the beach or you see other people's viewpoints of how excited, how nice it is, how amazing the world is, how lucky I am to be living in Manhattan Beach and doing what I do. And when I see the joy in her even just playing at the beach or taking her to a training or some of the best memories I have or this year, she'll be at my tournament in Manhattan Beach and then
00:17:35
Speaker
win a match, lose a match, either way. As soon as the match is over, she'll sprint to the players' box and I'll just be waiting with my arms open. And then I'll forget that I won or lost. I have her and it's the best thing ever. Kids give you perspective like we talked about earlier. It's like, man, I would love to feel that more like I was saying. I don't know. The world just gets crazy sometimes.
00:18:02
Speaker
Yeah, taking those moments for yourself is kind of important.
Balancing Life: Meditation and Mental Health
00:18:05
Speaker
And I think, you know, there's obviously ways that you can to work on that stuff. Meditation has been like pretty good, a pretty good way for me to kind of tap into that stuff.
00:18:13
Speaker
Okay. Do you have a regular meditation practice that you do? Within my routine, it would be more like sports, more for beach, like I'll meditate the morning of a match, spend five minutes just not even thinking about volleyball. Just kind of clearing your mind. Stuff that clears my mind and that's when I can get, I'm really good at getting into a routine when it comes down to like sport and like that's my life, right? But I think it's something that
00:18:39
Speaker
It's a good it's good that you know talking about it now because it's something that i want to implement more into my day to day life since my job is requiring me to like be mentally open and stable it's like i have this match in two hours my routine is like.
00:18:55
Speaker
an hour and 10 minutes before, I'll close my eyes for five to 10 minutes and I'll meditate and clear my mind and that really helps me. But what's to stop me from doing that every morning? Why don't I do that every morning? Well, I find that if I have something that's going to impact my work, I'm so dialed in in terms of getting motivation and doing the thing that I know is going to help me.
00:19:18
Speaker
achieve the best results. Yeah. But when it comes to my own personal life, like today I took the day off today. Yeah. Well, you're working right now. Yeah. Well, yeah. This is just pure pleasure. When I'm working, I'm like, oh man, when I got my own time, when I got my time to myself, I'm going to do this and this and this and that. It's going to be so great. And then this morning rolls around and I'm like, yeah, I just don't feel like doing anything.
00:19:44
Speaker
It's so unmotivated to make the choices I want to make to creating the life I want to create. Yeah. I have the same thing. If it's for our jobs, it's something that's going to create more money. You're going to see a product. Basically, your results are there. Yeah. It's super clear. Yeah. But at the same time, you still need to have
00:20:06
Speaker
those times when you can rest and enjoy not being as crazy busy all the time probably I think. I don't know and not feel bad about it and not feel bad about it. That's the thing too. It's like beating yourself up about having a not as productive day is going to just add to the stress. It's like, well, what if I schedule in a relaxed day or a relaxed morning where I can just sit there and have a coffee and not think about all these emails I have to get to?
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah, so I wanted to ask you a little bit about childhood stuff because you and me, we go way back. We go way back. Nobody on the pod goes back. Nobody on the pod goes back as far as me, right? That's right. The OG, we're the OG. OG man, five, four, three years old running around. Dude, that was the best.
00:20:53
Speaker
One of the things that I wanted to ask you about is you grew up in one of the most fiercely competitive households that I've ever been in. A hundred percent. You have four brothers, there's five of you. Sports were always huge in your house, but competition was in everything that you guys did. It wasn't just sports, it was in everything. I used to go to your house every Sunday for years.
00:21:23
Speaker
And your mom would make a massive pot of mac and cheese, and like, when that... Still does. Does she? Nobody could make mac and cheese like Crystal, man. No, for sure. But when that mac and cheese was ready, it was on. Like, you had to get your bowl and get in there to get some. Oh, for sure. Otherwise there'd be no mac and cheese left. That was how we lived. You better get your food fast.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, I remember going home to tell my parents once or twice, like, yeah, I'm still hungry because I didn't get enough cheese. Because I didn't have that same competitive gene. That's so funny. Oh, that's hilarious. But what I think is really interesting is, of all your brothers, you're the one who went on to play professional competitive sports. None of your other brothers did, right? Professionally.
00:22:20
Speaker
Well, yeah, just college level, yeah. Yeah, right. It's a career for you. Yes. I'm curious, are your brothers so jealous of you right now? You won, dude. You won. It's so funny. It's like early on, Seth, because Seth is probably the most competitive brother. Yeah, I would agree. I think you'd probably agree.
00:22:46
Speaker
And he was one of my first speech partners, which actually shout out to Joe because you are basically my first partner because we played in the grass together. Yeah, we did. We played in the grass together and then we played on my beach court together and then we played in high school together.
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah. And it was like, that was a blast. I set the standard. You did set the standard. I remember having some good wins with you. I actually remember beating Matt Harris, I think. Yeah. Remember Matt Harris? Yeah. I think it was in high school at provincial's and we did pretty good. Yeah, it was fun. So we all started there anyways.
00:23:21
Speaker
Within the family, Seth was so funny because for the longest time, him being the most competitive one, he was just like, because he was not the nicest partner to me ever. Just shat on me all the time.
00:23:36
Speaker
I felt like I was so shitty. And I tell him that now, I'm like, dude, you were the worst. I tell him, I'm like, you were the worst. You were so hard on me, everything was my fault. And I went from playing with Seth on the beach to where he was significantly better than me at first. And then I progressed really fast. And by the end of our partnership, I had to leave him to play with someone who was better. And so it was kind of a weird dynamic that way because I was slowly becoming better than him.
00:24:04
Speaker
Or rapidly, depending on how you look at it. I'll tell him rapidly. But he'll look at it now and be like, you would never have been an Olympian or you would have never been a pro if I wasn't hard on you in those days and made you who you are. So he's still winning in his head. Anything that I do is like... Yeah, it was all because of him. He's still winning and he's still so competitive that he's like,
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's on me. That's so funny. And my brothers are insane, dude, because they're so competitive that they'll cut back in the day when I was first kind of starting back in 2014, 15, I remember. I remember them coming to Long Beach and them standing like four feet from the, from the baseline while I'm serving, talking in my ear in the middle of like a pro match and like, sir,
00:24:51
Speaker
serve the right side or serve and talk, talk down his line right now. And I'm like, I have a coach. I have a game plan. I know what I'm doing. And I remember like losing a match and having them yelling at me, having them like screaming at the other team the whole time. There was German, we were playing a German team and they were like,
00:25:05
Speaker
trying to speak German to these German guys and I'm like, you guys got to stop. And like these guys are my friends off the court too, these other, these Germans. I'm like, what are we doing here? So I remember having to like talk to them, be like, guys, we can't, I cannot have you guys in my ear in the middle of a match. This is my job. I'm like trying to like be a professional here.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so we had to have those like tough conversations. And even in the Olympics, when they all came, like everybody came because I was, uh, Mackay couldn't make it, but all the other brothers were there. Um, and like I had Kyle as my like liaison guy who I could like talk to about sports, about, uh, what the plan was, what we're doing. But then like, I had like a very specific, like, I'm not talking to any of you guys about volleyball. I'm focused on what I'm doing with my team and I'll, I'll hang out with you guys when I can hang out with you guys and we'll go do some fun stuff.
00:25:53
Speaker
here and there in between days but like i don't want to talk about like what. My side out should be look like this team a day before the tournament you'd give cal the info he would relate to yeah so yeah i was a psychologist and he's like i can talk to i can talk to him about all this stuff and actually like now nowadays jaben is like a huge huge.
00:26:16
Speaker
Um, help for me for my career because he's so, he's so like balanced and relaxed and like, I can, I can pick his brain about what he thinks. I think he'd actually be a really fantastic coach on the beach because he lives in Kauai now with his family and plays beach volleyball like twice a week. And, and he's just, he's living, he just loves, loves beach volleyball, watches all my matches. So I actually use him as some, as sort of like a coaching thing. That's cool. Kyle's super good. Kyle's super good to talk to you about just being like super balanced and
00:26:45
Speaker
and understanding everything. And I can even talk to Seth now about everything too. Micaiah, I don't talk too much about, about valuable stuff, but, but it's like, we've kind of found the balance of all of that stuff. Whereas like 10 years ago, it would have been like,
00:26:57
Speaker
pulling my hair out, just like, shut up Seth, I don't want to talk to you. And at this point, everyone just wants me to play as long as I can because they just love, they love it. And it's like, they want to come to tournaments, they want, and they do. And my parents come to quite a few tournaments as well. And it's like, so it is really cool and it's fun. And I think like looking back, it's going to be one of the coolest things for sure of my life. Like when I, when I, when I am done, it's, it's going to, the cool part is going to be like seeing how,
00:27:23
Speaker
the whole family's come closer together and how, how good the sport's been for me in my life. Like it's been, it's been the best thing ever for sure. And like talking about it and doing stuff like this, like, like you said, like this is really, really something that like, again, I don't think about enough. And, and I think it's nice to have these conversations and to kind of open up that book of like, of how cool it actually has been, you know?
Competitive Roots: Influence on Career
00:27:46
Speaker
And you don't take that time, you don't take that time to like,
00:27:49
Speaker
really settle in and think about that stuff. I agree. I really agree. Do you agree with Seth? Do you feel like that competitive spirit that you grew up in was foundational or the linchpin that has allowed you to get through all the challenges that exist to become a professional athlete? Yeah. This is a really great question.
00:28:14
Speaker
When you're in that environment of competitive nature and you want to do whatever you can to get the last bowl of mac and cheese, growing up that way totally made me who I am. There's no question.
00:28:30
Speaker
It's funny cuz I actually was talking to Kyle about this yesterday because his kids are going through it all right now to like his oldest son is like a ridiculously good setter and he's gonna be like college for red and grade 11 like it's crazy getting getting all these offers and like his second his next younger kid Asher.
00:28:48
Speaker
Didn't they didn't really like he wasn't like super competitive or like wanting to like really push himself in volleyball but then now that he's seeing what Silas is doing now he all of a sudden wants to play in all the top teams and Play and play up a level and and interesting really like go for it And so like I was talking to him about all of it and we kind of like we actually it's so funny because we just had the conversation yesterday about like
00:29:10
Speaker
When I was young and you remember the grass court that we had, I'm sure, before having the beach court on the other side of the house, we would play and I was so young that they wouldn't let me hit ever. So I just had to set.
00:29:24
Speaker
Yeah. And so I would play with Jabin and the rule was they had to serve Jabin and I was only allowed to set. We would play two on two against Kyle and Seth and they're like, yep, that's fine. Cam can set and we're just going to serve Jabin the whole time. And if you can't serve Cam, I'm like, so that like pissed me off. I remember being like, I need to find a way to be, be able so I can actually play full on rather than like being upon here. So like, I, I still really remember that clearly. And I think,
00:29:50
Speaker
That kind of stuff, having a family, growing up with sports, having all these boys running around, having all you guys coming around, having friends and the community that we had really contributed to me actually wanting to go become the best and become the best version of myself.
00:30:09
Speaker
see how far the sport could take me and how far I could take it as well. That was a huge contributor. I fully believe that was a huge contributor. The funny thing that I talk about sometimes is that most competitive family you can imagine, but I honestly think that I was maybe the least competitive of all my brothers.
00:30:28
Speaker
That's exactly what I was going to say. You're competitive, but there's some super intense competitive brothers that you have. You must have had to find a way to channel your emotions and your energy into figuring out how to get better and to use your mind in other ways. Yeah, trying to find that balance of, yeah, I'm still competitive. I want to win.
00:30:55
Speaker
Some people, you know, Seth would be like winning at whatever cost necessary. Doesn't matter how much blood, doesn't matter how much blood there is. And Seth's like the kind of dog that you want on your team. Like he was at Trinity Western. He helped transform that program. Like, and he wasn't even a starting player. He wasn't even a starting player. He got put in, he got put in once and he was basically put in and he dragged all the other players into the fight. And that's kind of a guy you need sometimes.
00:31:23
Speaker
And so, like, I think, like, in Jabin too, like, those guys, man, Kyle, Kyle, not crazy competitive either, but, I mean, we're all competitive, but when you're fighting for everything, and those guys literally fighting, like fist fighting for, like, if they had to, they would play basketball in the basement in the winter, and they'd put an entire hole in the wall, like, a full-on body-sized hole through the drywall, because they were mad at each other,
00:31:53
Speaker
They're mad at each other playing basketball on an eight-foot rim. So then Javen, one of them pushes, Javen pushed Seth or Seth pushed Javen into the wall and there's like a full cut out of like a person. Yeah, I think I remember that. And so my parents put all that wood, they put all that wood around the walls so that they couldn't do that again. Like we were crazy, we were crazy. But I think like my perspective was, I think being younger, it helps because I can kind of take
00:32:20
Speaker
Take a little bit from each each of the older siblings that's kind of been my kind of turned out to be my philosophy in a lot of the stuff sports related life related in general actually because like i think. My my thought process is like learn from other people like put yourself in a situation where you're gonna be around around people who are.
00:32:41
Speaker
better than you. For my case is like, I only became good at beach volleyball because I was putting myself in positions where I was training with people who were better than me. And then that makes you better. And so I started early with my brothers and then moving to California when I was, you know, 10 years ago or 2013, 14 moved to California, played these top American guys and got beat up all the time, which I was used to doing. So that was fine. But then you get beat up enough that you start to become at that level. You start to get to that level. And then when you do surround yourself with, with
00:33:09
Speaker
amazing individuals, human beings, then you can kind of take, take from each one a little bit. And that's how I feel about, like, that's how I feel about coaching coaches too. I'm not like the kind of athlete that's going to get stuck with like only listening to what one coach is saying. If one coach tells me one thing, another coach tells me another thing, I can take a little bit of both and kind of turn it into whatever works best for me. And, and that's the whole beautiful thing about, about life. I think it's like, you can kind of shape who you are going to become.
00:33:40
Speaker
Sports wise, you can make yourself have the mindset. You can teach yourself a lot of things, I think. It's about picking the apple that you want from the tree. Yeah, no, that makes sense. On my journey, it's about your surroundings and then what you're going to take from each thing and make that who you want to be as a human.
00:34:02
Speaker
It took me a while to figure that out because in high school at times I was cocky. I was overconfident. I was thinking that I was trying to be too much like Seth or Jabin or whoever.
00:34:17
Speaker
I was in a position where I mean I remember times when I was like trash talking other teams so much in trying and being like all macho like this is who I should be yeah yeah and that long-term didn't work out for me that was not that's not the best way for me to play yeah and I've learned the crazy thing about the sports journey that I've been on is like
00:34:36
Speaker
I've learned so much over the years that what puts me in the best position to succeed is not about anything like that. It's about just me internally, about where my mindset's at. It doesn't have to do with affecting other people in certain ways. But I have tested the waters with all that stuff because you kind of figure out what works for you. That's one of my best when I'm really processing what's happening on the other side of the net.
00:35:03
Speaker
When I'm playing my best, it's when I can tactically make adjustments on the fly, seeing what the other team's doing, getting myself in that zone, rather than like, rah, rah, rah, we have to just fire, fire, fire. I'm reading a pretty good book called Stay Sained in an Insane World, about this guy's a sport psych and he worked with Tom Brady for years and trying to find the peak.
00:35:25
Speaker
performance of what works for people. It's a fascinating book. It's not just for athletes, I would say. It's more for anyone trying to be successful in a business world. Everybody's on their own path, but trying to find
00:35:40
Speaker
the right balance for what you need, and it can be different for everyone, which is like the crazy part about life. So it's, I don't know, I'm all over the map, but I think it's, yeah, it's so important to be grounded in like what's best for you, not for what's best for anybody else, you know? Well, I think where it really matters, like where the rubber hits the road is when you're winning, everything's great.
00:36:08
Speaker
There's no, there's no doubt. There's no struggle with motivation or desire when you're on top. But if winning is what your identity is and it's not happening anymore, you're fucked, right? So I could just really see how being a professional athlete where
00:36:28
Speaker
Expectations are so much higher. So much is connected to winning that the temptation to sort of live in that way where your identity is the result could be really difficult to overcome. Yeah, it's I think it's not just obviously it's everything like you're just saying it's not just sport but it's in sport it's magnified because
00:36:49
Speaker
people on the people who are looking on the outside aren't looking at the process at all, really. They're just looking at wins and losses and whether or not you're successful or not successful. And I think it's so hard. Like what you're saying is so hard. It's, it's, wouldn't it be amazing if the winning part didn't have to do with like the wins and losses, but the winning was just learning. Like I'm learning so that, that I'm winning. That's a win. And I think in anybody's life, in your life, whatever project you're working on or whatever, it's like,
00:37:18
Speaker
No matter what project you're doing, if the project ends up being a complete failure, maybe there's still a lot that you learned in that that makes you, helps you grow as a person and that's what's important. And nobody sees that, but you, but that's the part that should be important. And I just think it would be so great if it wasn't, yeah, if life wasn't all about just the wins and losses. And then we talk about it a lot. I talk about with my sports like a lot, like it's not, it's not about
00:37:48
Speaker
You know, for me, the journey, I don't want it to be about the wins and losses. I want it to be about.
00:37:54
Speaker
doing this and putting like the fact that I'm even going out and playing 22 tournaments, traveling around the world. Um, I'm growing so much in terms of everything in life, culture and experience and just learning more about other people in life. And that's a win and like, right. But it's so easy to forget about all that stuff. It's so easy to think about the last
00:38:18
Speaker
three tournaments where we didn't play well, we lost. And yeah, it's a good reminder that like, I, I would, I would love to, I would love to be able to always tap into that. And I just can't, I just can't, like, I need to be like sharp about it. I need to be, cause otherwise you just kinda, you fall into that. It's a trap, basically what you're saying, like falling into that, that results based trap and not the process and
00:38:44
Speaker
It's something that I struggle with and I'll always struggle with.
Growth Through Failure in Sports and Life
00:38:48
Speaker
I think that me being aware that I'm always going to struggle with that has been a big help for me because if you're not having that awareness, then it's going to be depressing when things do get tough. I think for anyone too, having that awareness, knowing that there's going to be ups and downs, knowing that you're going to have
00:39:12
Speaker
projects that go incredibly well and ones that go completely flop, but that's okay.
00:39:20
Speaker
With this kind of stuff, I think practice is huge and having conversations is huge. Knowing that that's normal, that stuff is normal. Kids understand that failure is okay. It's okay to fail. Failing is the best thing possible. I think if I was looking back at myself when I was younger, I wish I would have been more open to failing, I think. I was thinking about this recently.
00:39:48
Speaker
The best coaches of a young kid, anyone, let's say there's a kid who's playing on a team and he's super nervous about shaking a ball. Maybe you're an amazing passer, but then you shake when you start shaking. But if a coach would look at you and be like, listen, I want you to
00:40:06
Speaker
I want you to work on this with your passing today and I want you to put yourself in a position where you're gonna make mistakes but that's gonna be okay. I want you to keep working on this technical stuff that we're talking about right now and I don't care at all. You're not gonna be subbed out. You're not gonna lose your spot on the team. I want you to feel that you're working on something and that the result doesn't matter right now but this will help create something long-term that can become better.
00:40:35
Speaker
To have that awareness would be so great. It's just like having kids be making failure kind of a normal thing.
00:40:44
Speaker
is what a good coach should be doing, I think. If that makes sense. I just spoke with someone for the podcast. The episode was just released, but he was the head of Stanford's men's tennis. He coached Stanford's men's tennis for like 38 years and he won 17 NCAA championships with them. He's the winningest coach in NCAA men's tennis histories. Wow. Really successful coach.
00:41:07
Speaker
I'm going to give him a lesson. I'm going to give that a lesson. Yeah, he's a really cool guy. He talked about just that. That's really the coach's job. You're looking for ways to make the player see themselves the way that you see them. Right. And as the coach, you see your player, you see all the potential that they have.
00:41:25
Speaker
And you're, you're, you're looking for ways to help the player see that in themselves, to unlock that for themselves. And I love that idea. And I think that, you know, we don't certainly as like in youth sports, you don't necessarily find those kinds of coaches very often.
00:41:41
Speaker
Seriously. Yeah, I absolutely love that stuff. And I think the great coaches are going to be the ones that can figure out like the subtle differences between each player, like what you need to tell someone when, and I mean, everything comes down to confidence, right? Like if, if we feel confident, we're going to play well. Yeah.
00:41:58
Speaker
And so what do I have to do to make this kid feel confident or my partner feel confident or, and that's part of for beach level. It's like huge, right? Like if I can figure out how to make my guy play his best, what do I got to do? I got to pump him up, give him energy. Do I got to get mad at him? Some people play better when they're mad. Some people play better when they're
00:42:17
Speaker
Lucy goosey and happy and having fun. So it's like it's so it's all that stuff is so like interesting to me It makes me think that like I would like to do some coaching down the road Do you think that's what's next for you once you're once you're done playing professionally as a player like coaching? I'm open to it for sure. I think I think I would enjoy it I don't know that I want to travel around the world doing it Mmm, but there's there's tons of opportunities with kids and I do some coaching now
00:42:45
Speaker
here and there. I'll do some privates here and there. I'll coach these camps. I'll coach adults at camps or kids even at camps. Sometimes I go to Mexico once in a while for these different types of volleyball vacation things and stuff. I really do enjoy it. I went to school to be a teacher, so it transfers over really well. I could see myself getting into it.
00:43:07
Speaker
It's hard to fully commit to thinking of doing something like that when I'm still in my middle of my career or whatever, but I do see it as a possibility. It is fascinating to me.
00:43:19
Speaker
to try to like, just to look at that side of it, look at what a great coach would look like. Cause it does transfer a lot of the volleyball, a lot of the team, team and shit, like the teammate stuff, a lot of that transfers over to like what a good coach would look like. And it's funny, like we're actually looking for a coach right now. So we're like talking to guys and having meetings with coaches and the number one thing on my list, looking for a coach, isn't like someone who's going to be amazing technically and like teach me how to serve the ball super well or to certain spots or like,
00:43:49
Speaker
I'm looking for a coach who I feel we can bounce things off each other and create more confidence. Create a team that's better than the sum of its parts. You'll never know until you work with the coach for a while if your team, whatever, one plus one equals three.
00:44:12
Speaker
Yeah, because that's kind of the biggest deficiency we had this year. I think it's like both of both me and my partner played well at times, but as a team, we never played that good. You need to be like balancing your life. You need to be balancing what kind of side hustles you have.
00:44:28
Speaker
You need to balance what you do for sponsors and social media and all the pressures of all that stuff. You're kind of a business owner at the same time. I am. You have to be. You're not getting signed to ... In Beach Volleyball, you're not getting signed to a contract where you're making a certain amount of money no matter what. First of all, you need to do well at each tournament to make money and then you got to find sponsors that will pay you for the year if you can.
00:44:55
Speaker
That's all just like adds to like the stress of it. All right, but yeah, but again people don't really see that side of it But yeah, how are you doing on time? I'm fine. Okay. I I'm an offseason, bro Are you warmed up yet has the I'm like a little better still like internal temperatures are a little cold and
00:45:16
Speaker
You need a blanket. What my trainer wants me to do now is start doing ice bath before training. I don't go in the hot, I just go just cold before training. I'm going to start testing it before training just to do five minute ice bath and then go to the beach and train. In my mind, I always thought that would be terrible because I'm just going to
00:45:38
Speaker
have a harder time getting the whole body warm, but if it actually kicks everything into gear beforehand, then there can be a ton of benefits. I'm just testing it all right now, but excited to see how it goes. Sweet. For me as a filmmaker, I have spent a fair amount of time traveling in various parts of the world to tell stories. Since having kids and
00:46:02
Speaker
how the older they get, the harder that is to be gone. You're single dad parent mode now and that's a new thing, relatively new thing. How are you navigating all the ways that you figure that out? It's just hard on your heart. You have this goal, this dream of making the Olympics and then you also have this part of your heart that is your daughter that's back home and you know she's missing you and that's hard.
00:46:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely become like the hardest part about competing internationally, just cause I'll be gone for two, three weeks sometimes. And it's, it's just, it's difficult. Um, it's, it's kind of like one of the things you have to kind of sign up for. Obviously I'm a single, single dad, whether or not I was still married or not, it would be difficult as it was difficult for the whole family before that, you know, because I'm on the road all the time and, and it's hard to have a routine. It's hard to have.
00:47:00
Speaker
And you feel like you're missing out on things and there's only so much FaceTime can do when you're talking to your daughter on FaceTime. You got five minutes and she's going to be a board and do something else. Yep. Yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
But I think the main thing is being as present as I possibly can when I am around, spending as much time as I can get with my daughter makes a huge difference. Her and our relationship has grown a lot and it's been pretty awesome. Even though she's four and a half, I try to communicate really well. I try to tell her where I'm going and
00:47:32
Speaker
what's happening and I'm going to play volleyball and she gets all that and that's kind of cool and I do have like certain fears that like pop up in my mind that like she since she isn't getting as much time with me that it's that it's something like she might have there might be something that holds on to her that way that like I wasn't there all the time when she was young but I think like because
00:47:54
Speaker
because I'm trying to communicate it with her. I think it is sticking to some extent. I think that she also knows that it's not going to be forever like this either because I tell her that. I don't want to be doing this for much more. Like I said, I might do it for another year. I'm not sure if I'm going to travel that much after that. I can see
00:48:15
Speaker
For where I'm at as an older athlete, I can see the finish line in that area where I'm going to be home and I'm going to have full on 50-50 more time with her where I can actually grow more with my daughter because that's what kind of life
00:48:31
Speaker
once you obviously you've got a couple kids but like once once you have kids it's it becomes that that is like the most exciting thing for me now like it's it's my balls cool my balls cool but like I would rather see something exciting with what she's doing what she's enjoying and kind of live through that which is crazy cuz you don't really you can't really I don't know if you can understand it until you actually have a kid yeah I agree do you think there's a yeah is that how it's been for you to like
00:48:58
Speaker
For me, the first experience I had where I experienced my own intense joy through seeing my oldest son have an experience where he got joy was I got so much more personal joy out of it than anything that I did myself that whole year. Just seeing him and it was swimming.
00:49:20
Speaker
We went swimming and he just seeing what that experience meant for him was like, um, I got, I want, I want so much more of that. Like I want to be here for those things. And I don't know about you, but on planes, I get super emotional and sentimental and nostalgic. So like when I'm on an airplane and I've just left to fly away for two weeks, all relationship goals with my kids become like crystal clear. Yeah.
00:49:49
Speaker
and I'm like, oh man, I'm choosing, like me, I'm flying away from all those things right now. I just get choked up. You're just sitting there crying by yourself. I get that to a certain extent too. I mean, I think when you're on an airplane, there's not much to do, right? You're like, you're there with your thoughts and you get sad because you know you're gonna not see your, you're not gonna see your loved ones for a bit. And so it's like, man, like,
00:50:19
Speaker
I get the like, what am I doing right now? Sometimes because I'm going to India and I'm like, oh, this is so tough and I know I'm not going to see my daughter for a week and this time around. It's like, well, what's next for that? I don't know. I get the same thing. I probably don't cry on the plane.
00:50:41
Speaker
You've always been pretty emotional. It's just ready to come out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's always this tension as you have kids and as you have your own life and your kids have their own life, you have to choose. There's a battle. Did you see the movie, everything everywhere all at once?
00:50:59
Speaker
Yeah, I did. It was so good. That movie just destroyed me because I feel like the core of that movie is this tension between this mom and all these hopes and dreams that she's had for her life. Right. And now her daughter, and they're at odds with each other, and her daughter is the arch enemy of her character. Her daughter is trying to kill her in that movie, you know? Right.
00:51:24
Speaker
She's so unhappy, the mom. I feel like that is so true to what it's like to be a parent in the sense of you have your own dream still. You have your own life and there's a lot of things as you get older that you realize, a lot of potential that you had that will never be realized.
00:51:44
Speaker
in the way that you thought it maybe could be. And now you've got this kid who also has their own potential, but is also standing in the way of some of the things you want to do. And you have to decide. It's just such an interesting thing that we do as human beings.
00:52:02
Speaker
to have kids. Yeah. So much give and take, right? It's like, yeah, life is like just so crazy. Life is so crazy. And I think it's okay to not have like the right answers all the time. It's like, you don't know, you don't know what's best and what's best for my kid. Like what's best for me, which, which, where should I put my energy? And like you were talking about earlier, like how much energy should I be putting into this, into what I'm trying to do today? Or like, what, what do I need to do compared to what is best for me and
00:52:33
Speaker
It gets so muffled and muddy that it's hard and it can take over a little bit sometimes. I think those things are challenging. To be real about it, life is hard.
00:52:47
Speaker
As a kid, you sort of think that when you get older, some of those things are going to sort themselves out. Right. But it just gets more muddy and more complicated and you have to make more compromises. You have to let go, I think, of things, right? Yeah. Some things that you are – because everyone's idealistic and you see
00:53:09
Speaker
the best of everybody else basically too so when we're kids we see what our parents look like and it looks successful, it looks like they have it together, they have their shit together but they don't. They don't necessarily do but you see things in a certain way and you think that's going to be the same thing for you but reality is so different and then we get older and then you realize that things maybe will never be what you thought they were going to be like you were just saying.
00:53:39
Speaker
kind of like a hits you in the mind. But that's okay. I think things can be different and there's new paths that kind of get formed and new ways of being excited with life and what path we're on. Yeah. So right now with where you're at in your career and your life and your family, how do you define success?
Defining Success: Happiness Over Wins
00:54:00
Speaker
For me, I think success for me is like whether or not I'm happy.
00:54:09
Speaker
if I'm enjoying what I'm doing, if I'm, if I'm enjoying my time. And I think, I think that to me is success. That's what I want at least. And that's not it. That's not how it is, but, but at the same time it is how it is. Does that make sense? I don't know. Um, I'm happy when I'm, when I'm doing the things that put me on the path to give me that shot of like what a, what I'm aiming for, what I'm, what I'm desiring. Hmm.
00:54:36
Speaker
And it's not about the, it shouldn't be about the wins and losses. It should be about the process. And that's, I know deep down that if I am happy, then I'm, then I'm winning, right? Yeah.
00:54:48
Speaker
And whether that's being a dad, whether that's being a good dad or whether that's me on my volleyball journey, on my sports journey, like pushing myself to the furthest place I can go, whether or not I qualify for the Olympics win or lose, whether, whether I, whether we get into that, whether we become the top team in the world, whether we struggle, I think me looking back, I think the success part will be that I.
00:55:13
Speaker
that I enjoyed that whole process of it all and that, that creates happiness and joy for me. And it's a great reminder because I get stuck in the trenches a lot and I get stuck thinking too much about winning and losing and putting all these pressures on myself. And that to me is like a failed day. Yeah. If I have a tough, tough day training and I'm dogging it all day and I don't want to be there, it's a fail to me. And, and I have more wins than fails in that, in that department, I think.
00:55:43
Speaker
But at this point, and this is a different answer than what I would have given you 10 years ago. At this point, it's like that's kind of the most important stuff for me. Mental health and enjoyment and not having those roller coasters of emotions. I think that's kind of the biggest thing for me. How would you define it? For you, I'm curious.
00:56:06
Speaker
I really want to get to the point where I'm enjoying the process of like when I wake up, looking forward to what I have to do that day and.
00:56:16
Speaker
the relationships that I have around me are ones in which I'm invested in. And there's a lot less striving for outside validation and approval. That generally happens when I'm really result oriented. That's the constant battle I have with my own work. And I place a way too much personal value on that. And then it goes back to what we were talking about before. That's all great when it's working.
00:56:45
Speaker
But when things go sideways, totally lost itself. Lost a little bit. Yeah. That's the thing I want to undo, not needing so much of that external validation that has been something that has marked my life up until now. Yeah. I mean, that's really well said, I think.
00:57:07
Speaker
I don't think there's ever going to be a shutoff switch to that. I agree. I'm going to be lost at C, but maybe the answer is more, or maybe the ideal thought would be like, I'm going to be lost, but maybe I'll be lost for a little bit less time this time. Maybe the amount of time that we struggle can be minimized. It's just 5% less this time than last time, and you can feel that, and that helps create
00:57:36
Speaker
energy and happiness inside of you because you bounced back faster this time than last time or whatever the case is, or you got back on the horse, you got back on the horse instead of laying on the ground waiting for whatever. That's a terrible analogy, but I could have thought of something better than that, but I don't know. Take two, take two. Don't put me on a take two.
00:58:02
Speaker
Yeah, maybe, maybe there's something to be said about being okay with the failure, being okay with the struggles and the let down and then jumping right back up. Maybe a little, little bit, little bit quicker than the time before. I don't know. Yeah. And just talking about it is helpful. I think it's like.
00:58:20
Speaker
It normalizes it more and it's more, it's just something that a lot of people struggle with and nobody's on top all the time. For me, it helps at least to know that it's okay to feel, it's okay to feel not good, to feel sad, to feel like things aren't going well right now for me. Having these conversations, all I'm saying is it just helps. For me too, it's awesome.
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah, cool. Well, that's, that's awesome. I think sports is actually something that's really helped me too, because like, like Messi is my favorite soccer player. Yeah. And he missed, he messes up. He makes mistakes. He, he misses shots. He gets the ball taken from him. He, he, you know, he has passes intercepted. That's a part of being the best. Willing to make and willing to make those mistakes and not play safe. Right.
00:59:14
Speaker
That's something that I've been thinking a lot about too. Like sometimes my game is too safe in volleyball, like just volleyball related. It's like, I want to be more risk taking, more, just feel okay about taking a risk. So it's all, and you look at those top athletes of every sport ever, and that's what they do.
00:59:32
Speaker
That's what made Tiger so great. He would just take the most difficult approach if he had to and he'd find a way. And then he'd also have times when he'd completely failed miserably and that's fine too. But the problem is that most of us think about Messi and we're like,
00:59:49
Speaker
He doesn't make, like if you just bring up Messi right there, I'm like, yeah, like unbelievable, never makes mistakes. He's perfect in my mind. It's like that guy's, he doesn't make mistakes, but then, you know, you watching someone closely, you realize more that like this guy is amazing, but he also, it makes mistakes too. So, um, it's important to learn from everything around us, right? Like in sports, for some people it's that's the answer. And for other people it's something different, but I think that's, it's cool that you can kind of see it from a different perspective.
01:00:19
Speaker
Yeah. Well, we seem, we kind of seem to know people for their achievements and not, we sort of forget that they're humans too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of like great moments, mountain top moments, it's going to sound so, so superficial. I want to hear it. I don't know if you remember this, but you were, you were a part of it. Yeah. Stoked right now.
01:00:44
Speaker
you were playing the AVP Chicago tournament. Yep. And you're like, you're like, Hey, we're going to be in town playing. Come check us out. So I was like, Oh yeah, we'll be, I'd love to. So I went with, yeah, with Mo and the boys when, when was like maybe a year old. Yeah. He wasn't walking. He wasn't walking yet.
01:01:03
Speaker
And you were playing in center court, so like the grandstands were all around. And at the beginning of every game, the players would come out and throw those balls. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember this. And your game was just about to start. We just got there. I had wind in my arms. And I run up the stairs. And I come out over the edge. And they were announcing you guys. And you were walking out with the balls. And you were in mid-throw. I just yelled out your name as loud as I could.
01:01:31
Speaker
You turned mid throw and saw me and you chucked the ball right at me. Perfect throw. I'm holding win in one arm and with my other arm, just boom, one arm, one arm caught that. In front of the grandstands, everybody saw it. Just like this dad of the year right now. When you're good, yeah. Lefty. I remember throwing you the ball. You do. You don't remember me catching it.
01:02:01
Speaker
Maybe my own ego is... No, no, you played that story, right? That sounds amazing. Obviously, I'm like... Probably a sweet throw too. It was a good throw. I didn't have to move for it. It was right to me.
01:02:17
Speaker
I just love that we have that connection of like, if I see Joe open, I'm going to. I mean, we've played every sport together. Why wouldn't I? That's the first thing you do. Trust. Trust. No, that's an awesome story. I love that. That was a good moment. Well, dude, this is really great. Really great to talk and hang out. Yeah. So fun, man. I've really enjoyed it. I appreciate you having me. Thanks for...
01:02:42
Speaker
being willing to come on. I've been watching your journey that you've been on and sort of the stuff you've been working towards and you're living this dream that so many of us had as kids. And you of everybody is the one who's doing it, which I think is so cool.
01:02:59
Speaker
I appreciate that. Yeah, I think it's awesome. No, I appreciate that. I think it's been so great for me. Like I said before, when I am more done and retired, I think looking back, it's going to be
01:03:14
Speaker
gonna be something that i look at more fondly than when you're in the fire in the zone of it all but but i think it's it's it's all been shaped by like that kind of upbringing that both of us had in the fortunate i mean we just we we grew up in a beautiful place and fortunate to have like.
01:03:34
Speaker
great families and friends. I think it's really cool that even though you lose touch with people, I think it's been so fun connecting with you again. I agree. Knowing that we have that history and that I will always feel tied to you in certain ways and super close to you in certain ways, and I think that's never going to change, which is
01:03:56
Speaker
Which is why it's fun to just like jump on on a call with you and just like shoot the shit about our lives And how we've kind of grow we've both grown a lot. Yeah, it feels like no time has passed Yeah, I know good luck. I'm rooting for you. I'm cheering for you with this lead up to the Olympics Thanks, buddy. Cool. All right. Thanks a lot, man. All right, buddy. Well, we'll talk to you soon. All right. Thanks. Thanks, dude. Have a good Christmas Yeah, you too
01:04:30
Speaker
You can learn more about Cam and follow along with his journey to Paris by following him on Instagram. His handle is at camer. The link is in the episode description. And if the AVP has a tournament in your city or near where you live, I've been to a couple with the whole family and everyone had a lot of fun. So check it out.
01:04:49
Speaker
Okay, it is one week out from Christmas, which is the holiday my family and I celebrate at this time of year and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around where the year went. I cannot keep up with how fast time is moving. So I need to go so I can find some more Christmas presents because I'm way behind.
01:05:07
Speaker
Just a bit of business, we'll be taking a break next week for the Christmas holiday. So no new episode next week, but we'll pick it right back up on New Year's Day, January 1, 2024 with a conversation that I've been really looking forward to sharing. Thanks so much for listening. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone. See you in the new year.