Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
"Mastering Pharmacy Jurisprudence with Elegance"
336 Plays3 years ago
Pharmacy law can be quite the behemoth for many, but Callan and Hunter are here to help! In this episode, both free and paid resources that Callan and Hunter used for their MPJE attempts are discussed. Please note, this episode does not delve into copyrighted material of the exam.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to PKPD and Episode Focus
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to Practical Knowledge for Personal Development, or PKPD for short, a pharmacy podcast where we explore the various ways to grow as a person and pharmacist by discussing common questions asked by pharmacy learners.
00:00:19
Speaker
Our ambition is to see our listeners achieve their personal and professional goals.
Understanding the MPJE: Tips and Strategies
00:00:24
Speaker
In this episode, we'll talk about the dreaded law exam, the MPJE, how do I pass the MPJE,
00:00:32
Speaker
So before we start this episode, I think it's important to give our disclaimer as a podcast and people who have taken MPJs in the exam before.
00:00:40
Speaker
We are not giving out any exam answers or anything along that matter.
00:00:46
Speaker
We are just here to simply give helpful tips and tricks and strategies to better take your exam and test taking skills.
00:00:55
Speaker
Hunter, anything else you want to add as far as the disclaimer goes?
00:00:58
Speaker
Totally agree with what you said.
00:01:00
Speaker
This is not a, like, don't listen to this expecting to get freebies and free answers to questions.
00:01:07
Speaker
The resources we're going to dive into are going to help you feel prepared going into those exams.
00:01:12
Speaker
Really, the best way to pass is to, you know, use these resources.
00:01:16
Speaker
But, yeah.
00:01:18
Speaker
You're not going to get any freebies.
00:01:19
Speaker
We're not going to have our podcast taken down because we violated the same things that we filled out when we went to take these exams.
00:01:25
Speaker
So Callan, can you give us a brief overview of this monstrosity, this dreaded the law exam, the thing that everyone would rather do?
Exam Structure and State Variations
00:01:35
Speaker
They would rather do anything other than move to another state where they have to take a new law exam or even their very first one.
00:01:40
Speaker
And they haven't gotten to have that luxury yet.
00:01:43
Speaker
We love it.
00:01:43
Speaker
Love to see it.
00:01:44
Speaker
The MPJA, also known as the Multistate Pharmacy Jurisprudence Examination.
00:01:50
Speaker
I didn't know that off the top of my head.
00:01:51
Speaker
I had to read that.
00:01:53
Speaker
Basically, it's this two and a half hour exam and it has about 120 questions.
00:02:00
Speaker
Results will either be pass, fail, and you'll get those results after you take it.
00:02:05
Speaker
It depends on, I think, the exam, right?
00:02:08
Speaker
As far as getting the results back, Hunter?
00:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's I've experienced that with Minnesota that I didn't find out I passed until I just found out one day I had a license.
00:02:19
Speaker
So certain states, you can't just refresh, refresh, refresh and get your results right away.
00:02:26
Speaker
Some states like what I got will do that.
00:02:28
Speaker
Like you only have so many attempts that you can take before the state may say like, hold on, you have to do XYZ in order to take it again.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's why it's so challenging to talk about the MPJE because there's, what, 50 different states?
00:02:41
Speaker
Certain states have their own MPJE.
00:02:42
Speaker
California has a CPJE, very different from the MPJE.
00:02:47
Speaker
Each state has different laws, so it's really hard to kind of streamline this and talk about it.
00:02:53
Speaker
We're just going to kind of give a brief overview as best as we can.
00:02:56
Speaker
But yeah, take this with a grain of salt because every state is going to be very different.
Comparing Law Classes and NAPLEX Preparation
00:03:01
Speaker
But another big thing like why we're wanting to do this episode on the MPJE is when you think about it, how many classes do you have that the NAPLEX covers?
00:03:10
Speaker
Whereas how many law tests or law classes do you cover?
00:03:15
Speaker
Like for me, I know I had a law class my P1 year and I had a law class right before I went on rotation.
00:03:21
Speaker
So I had those two classes that that is what was going to prepare me to take the law exam.
00:03:26
Speaker
Whereas all the other classes pretty much, you could argue some less and others more, were covered by the NAPLEX.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, I remember I took our law course my P1 year.
00:03:37
Speaker
So when it came back to my P4 year about to take the MPJ, you know, it's been four years since I've taken a law course.
00:03:45
Speaker
So
00:03:45
Speaker
It's definitely refreshing on that knowledge and there's some good resources out there to kind of help you successfully navigate this exam.
00:03:54
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:03:55
Speaker
Let's talk a bit about logistics.
Logistics of Taking the MPJE
00:03:57
Speaker
Logistics.
00:03:58
Speaker
Tips or logistics?
00:03:59
Speaker
I guess, yeah, both intertwined because, you know, once someone actually has that test scheduled, what does it look like from the time you walk into the door to sitting down taking the test?
00:04:10
Speaker
I mean, it's going to vary for each person, no?
00:04:15
Speaker
Right?
00:04:16
Speaker
I mean, you know, I've done it in four different states and the process I feel like has been pretty similar.
00:04:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:21
Speaker
So you speak on that.
00:04:21
Speaker
I mean, show up on time.
00:04:23
Speaker
Because I've only taken it once.
00:04:25
Speaker
I'm not the guru here of the MPJE.
00:04:28
Speaker
So you are.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, I should be.
00:04:30
Speaker
I should be talking about that.
00:04:31
Speaker
My bad.
00:04:32
Speaker
All four of the states I've taken in, it's all been pretty similar.
00:04:35
Speaker
You're going into a controlled environment.
00:04:38
Speaker
If you've ever taken the, what is it?
00:04:40
Speaker
The old...
00:04:42
Speaker
What is it?
00:04:42
Speaker
PCAT.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, if you ever took the PCAT, it's in a similar environment, a controlled environment.
00:04:48
Speaker
If you've taken any kind of standardized exam at a supervised facility, you're going to go through the same process to take this, making sure you have your ID available, realizing that this exam compared to the NAPLEX, there are no breaks.
00:05:02
Speaker
So you...
00:05:03
Speaker
If you decide that you need to use the bathroom in the middle of it, that is coming from your two and a half hours to take it.
00:05:09
Speaker
Definitely arrive early.
00:05:11
Speaker
I was one of those people that probably got there way too early.
00:05:14
Speaker
So I would just sit in my car reviewing some of my notes last minute right before going into the test.
00:05:22
Speaker
But I'd rather be a little bit early rather than a little bit late.
00:05:26
Speaker
Because if you show up late and you are still allowed to test, that can be cutting into your test-taking time.
00:05:32
Speaker
So just make sure you know where you're going.
00:05:34
Speaker
A lot of times, too, the places that do these tests are...
00:05:38
Speaker
I want to say it's Pearson Vue that administers it.
00:05:40
Speaker
So like they may be small offices within a large building.
00:05:43
Speaker
So it's not some places may have like a little standalone.
00:05:46
Speaker
It's really easy to find, whereas others are like, go up the elevator and then go down these two different ways.
00:05:52
Speaker
And it's like on the seventh floor in this area over here.
00:05:56
Speaker
So yeah.
00:05:58
Speaker
If you've got that figured out before you've got the eebie-jeebies from taking the test, it's much less stressful.
00:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's very helpful.
00:06:05
Speaker
I also think, one, the bathroom break, like you mentioned, if you do have to take it, understand that when you do take it, you have to go through all that security measures.
00:06:13
Speaker
So that's taking off your glasses and then they make you empty out your pockets and turn around.
00:06:20
Speaker
And so there's this whole process.
00:06:21
Speaker
So if you think, oh, I'm just going to use the bathroom quickly, it's probably at least going to be a five-minute ordeal.
00:06:26
Speaker
if not more.
00:06:28
Speaker
And there might be people ahead of you trying to get in to take the exam and they have to vet them first.
00:06:32
Speaker
So just keep that in mind if you do have to use the bathroom.
00:06:37
Speaker
And then obviously have your ID.
00:06:38
Speaker
I think that's also important.
00:06:40
Speaker
There's appropriate ID and identification on the NABP website.
00:06:46
Speaker
So you can kind of look at that and yeah, I find that to be helpful.
00:06:49
Speaker
And don't forget that the
00:06:51
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:06:51
Speaker
You don't want to show up not having the resources you need, then you lose your testing seat.
00:06:55
Speaker
All right, let's dive into our resources because there's a lot of resources out there, some better than others, some that cost money, some that are free.
Resource Value and Exam Preparation Strategies
00:07:05
Speaker
You know, it's an expensive test.
00:07:07
Speaker
You know, people are looking at, I think we talked about it in some of our prior episodes, that taking the exam is incredibly expensive.
00:07:14
Speaker
And while it's nice to, you know, pass it on the first try because you are done, you know,
00:07:21
Speaker
having to retake it is very expensive and you have to redo all of those other fees.
00:07:25
Speaker
So there is a reason why people will spend a lot of money on all of these different resources to feel most prepared for going into that test.
00:07:33
Speaker
But you also don't need to buy every single resource that is out there.
00:07:37
Speaker
So kind of starting with like our first options that are available, let's kind of highlight some of...
00:07:43
Speaker
Our favorite resources.
00:07:45
Speaker
I will start with I love the DEA pharmacist manual.
00:07:48
Speaker
I think that's something that people don't realize exist.
00:07:52
Speaker
But since controlled substances are on everybody's MPJE.
00:07:57
Speaker
Most states do a pretty good job of just kind of copying what is legislated at the federal level.
00:08:03
Speaker
So there is a DEA pharmacist manual that pretty much lays out all of the controlled substance stuff for you.
00:08:09
Speaker
Well, and it's nice that it's free.
00:08:10
Speaker
So that's something that like, you know, a lot of people talk about paid resources, like try and use your free resources as much as you can.
00:08:17
Speaker
But that thing, you know, it's almost like a 200 page document, but it does a very good job of
00:08:23
Speaker
of explaining or really taking away a lot of the gray area with the mpje of like oh what do i do in this situation there's a controlled substance involved i think the document does a really good job explaining like hey these are like some hypothetical situations that you may need to apply the uh this controlled substance law to and agreed agreed and i also think
00:08:46
Speaker
using those free resources first is a good start.
00:08:49
Speaker
So the NABP has a really, on each exam or each state, I should say, they have their competency statements.
00:08:56
Speaker
Correct me if I'm wrong, Hunter.
00:08:58
Speaker
But I felt like those are very helpful to look over and get a good overview of what that state is asking and what they're going to expect me to know.
00:09:08
Speaker
So I use that as like sort of my guide and reference.
00:09:11
Speaker
And then once I looked over that, then I looked over other resources too to kind of help build upon it.
00:09:15
Speaker
That's very good that you highlight that because that's essentially them breaking down, hey, here's what we're going to test you on.
00:09:21
Speaker
We're not going to tell you specifically what the situation is going to be involved or what the situation will involve, but we're telling you the kind of content to look at.
00:09:28
Speaker
And especially when they break down, I forget the specific percentages, but it is a very, very low percentage of licensing.
00:09:37
Speaker
What does it take to be a pharmacist license, I think, is one of the examples in the
00:09:42
Speaker
like super low percentage area and there's even a lower percentage for like specifically federal laws.
00:09:48
Speaker
So it's like, should you be spending a ton of time studying the things that are covered the least in that exam?
00:09:55
Speaker
So it helps you break down like, oh, this is in the 83% section.
00:09:59
Speaker
I should be familiar with what it means for a pharmacist to legally dispense a prescription.
00:10:04
Speaker
as opposed to, you know, the difference between like the food and drug cosmetic act and like what it entails.
00:10:13
Speaker
Let's see, what else do we want to highlight on?
00:10:15
Speaker
I'm glad you highlight that one because that's like the, if you're not familiar with that, you can't start studying because you don't know what the domains of the test are.
00:10:23
Speaker
And I know some people, this is kind of
00:10:25
Speaker
going off of this, but when should you take the MPJ and should you take the MPJ first before the NAPLEX or should you take the NAPLEX first?
00:10:35
Speaker
Now, this is a controversial opinion.
00:10:37
Speaker
I feel indifferent about it.
00:10:39
Speaker
What did you do?
00:10:40
Speaker
I took my MPJE first and then the NAPLEX, which honestly I kind of liked, but everyone has like a different way of studying.
00:10:49
Speaker
But I know a lot of people took their NAPLEX first and then their MPJE.
00:10:52
Speaker
So whatever you think.
00:10:54
Speaker
I mean, yeah, that's what I did.
00:10:56
Speaker
I took my NAPLEX first and then my MPJE a week later.
00:10:59
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:11:00
Speaker
I didn't.
00:11:01
Speaker
I spaced mine out.
00:11:04
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:11:04
Speaker
I wanted to get those suckers done right away.
00:11:06
Speaker
No, I feel like my brain would be in NAPLEX mode and not in MPJ mode, so I needed at least two weeks back.
00:11:13
Speaker
Well, especially, you know, everyone has a different amount of time they need to take the test.
00:11:17
Speaker
I feel like I hear that question a lot of how long do I need to study for it?
Practice Exams and Peer Advice
00:11:22
Speaker
That totally depends on how well do you perform on test?
00:11:24
Speaker
How much did you retain from school?
00:11:26
Speaker
How well, how long do you need to study to get the grade you need?
00:11:31
Speaker
Now, remember, these are tests of minimum competency.
00:11:35
Speaker
Nobody cares if you get 100% on an MPJE or an APLEX.
00:11:39
Speaker
This is strictly for the purpose of licensing.
00:11:41
Speaker
Someone who gets a perfect score on an APLEX is not a better pharmacist than someone who gets the minimum competency on the test.
00:11:47
Speaker
This is a standardized test of minimum competency.
00:11:50
Speaker
What really matters is how you practice in clinical practice, which we all know these exams are not designed to do.
00:11:56
Speaker
I mean, I felt like to me, three weeks studying nonstop was very sufficient to study for the MPJE.
00:12:02
Speaker
If you're eight hours a day for three weeks, I felt that that would be an okay amount of time to study.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yes, you're cramming.
00:12:11
Speaker
That's – oh my gosh, that's so much more than what I did.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, I don't recommend it.
00:12:15
Speaker
But like I mean if you're really down to the line, I feel like that is definitely more than enough time looking back.
00:12:23
Speaker
And, you know, on the topic of having that much time, like when people ask how much time do I need to spend?
00:12:28
Speaker
Personally, this is one of the reasons why I'm a huge fan of the practice exams.
00:12:34
Speaker
Like that is a great way to tell, are you ready for the test?
00:12:38
Speaker
Because they use real questions that have been used before.
00:12:43
Speaker
I've taken a practice exam for every MPJE that I've sat for.
00:12:47
Speaker
I've scored a passing score.
00:12:51
Speaker
And I passed my exam.
00:12:52
Speaker
So, you know, I've got an N of four right here that I took the practice in PGE.
00:12:57
Speaker
I felt like, okay, those are the kind of questions, especially the kind of questions that that state cares about.
00:13:02
Speaker
So like, you know, there's a lot of information between the different states.
00:13:06
Speaker
I will say the practice in PGEs that I take, I was like, ah, this is, this is very reflective of what I feel like I'm going to encounter on the real deal.
00:13:15
Speaker
So,
00:13:16
Speaker
It's pricey.
00:13:17
Speaker
I think it's $75 per exam.
00:13:21
Speaker
I don't think there's any reason anyone needs to take multiple practice MPJEs unless you didn't pass the first one and you want to take another one to assess how much you've studied on.
00:13:32
Speaker
And this is through the NABP.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's through NABP.
00:13:36
Speaker
So the same website that you go in to register for the MPJE, that practice test.
00:13:40
Speaker
Good, good.
00:13:40
Speaker
Just to make sure we're on the same page.
00:13:42
Speaker
What other resources come to mind, Callan?
00:13:45
Speaker
So what helped me, and I felt like this was probably one of the more helpful resources, was PharmacyExam.com.
00:13:52
Speaker
I don't know if you used it.
00:13:53
Speaker
I know it's expensive.
00:13:55
Speaker
But I felt like it was helpful for what it was.
00:13:59
Speaker
And they had a lot of practice questions.
00:14:02
Speaker
I think I only went through the first three practice exams and not the rest.
00:14:05
Speaker
But I felt like the first three for my state that I was taking the MPJ in was sufficient for me to, you know, understand that material.
00:14:14
Speaker
What about you?
00:14:15
Speaker
Did you ever use PharmacyExam.com?
00:14:17
Speaker
I did.
00:14:17
Speaker
I had mixed feelings with it.
00:14:19
Speaker
I used it for all of my MPJEs and that I feel like is a great resource for someone who is like panicky feeling like they need someone to ask them questions.
00:14:32
Speaker
I'll be honest, I was kind of disappointed.
00:14:34
Speaker
I felt like there were a lot of typos.
00:14:37
Speaker
There were a lot of incongruencies between what it reported and what I saw on other resources that I had.
00:14:44
Speaker
Now that could also just be, you know,
00:14:47
Speaker
dependent on how you interpret the law, that's what's kind of challenging with an MPJE is that it's up to the test administrators and those that wrote the test that there is a most correct answer.
00:14:58
Speaker
But in real practice, that's up to the Board of Pharmacy or if you're getting sued in a civil court, up to the jury.
00:15:10
Speaker
I kind of want to chalk it up to that, but there were some questions I was like, I know it's saying this and this is the law it's citing, but this is not congruent with what the other resources I'm have are telling me and recommending.
00:15:22
Speaker
Even things as simple as what's the pharmacist to tech ratio?
00:15:27
Speaker
There were things that were not similar to what I had in other resources.
00:15:30
Speaker
So I was like, eh, okay.
00:15:32
Speaker
So if anything, it taught me like, oh, the answer's wrong.
00:15:34
Speaker
I'm like, okay, let me go and make sure I agree that my answer was wrong.
00:15:39
Speaker
or agree with it telling me my answer is wrong so i don't think i'd get it again even though i bought it like i think i bought it three times i didn't buy it for my kansas mpje but it's a i think it's like a hundred dollars yeah i can't remember but i knew i remember it was expensive that's all i can uh
00:15:56
Speaker
kind of muster up.
00:15:58
Speaker
But yeah, I remember looking through some of the questions with some of my co-residents at the time and we were like arguing over certain exam questions that it posted and we're like, no, this is right.
00:16:08
Speaker
No, this is right.
00:16:09
Speaker
So it was just – I think the thing with pharmacyexam.com
00:16:15
Speaker
That also kind of threw us off was that they would say one thing and then they would kind of contradict themselves in the same question.
00:16:23
Speaker
But I realized that they were asking state-specific questions and federal exam questions.
00:16:28
Speaker
So I was like, oh, this is why it's different.
00:16:31
Speaker
So I kind of put two and two together because I was just baffled.
00:16:35
Speaker
I was like, how are these so different?
00:16:36
Speaker
But it made sense when I started putting two and two together.
00:16:39
Speaker
But yeah, keep that in mind for sure, state versus federal.
00:16:43
Speaker
Any other questions?
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:45
Speaker
Any other resources?
00:16:46
Speaker
I'm trying to think of, you know, we kind of go are going back and forth of paid and non-paid resources, but it's also, you know, we're thinking what comes to mind.
00:16:55
Speaker
It's helpful versus not as helpful.
00:16:58
Speaker
One thing that comes to mind that I think was one of the most helpful things was
00:17:03
Speaker
Ask someone who just got licensed, what did they use?
00:17:07
Speaker
And most often, if the school notes or the Board of Pharmacy's resources were good, they'll orient you to that.
00:17:12
Speaker
So that was one of the things I did with, actually, my new job.
00:17:16
Speaker
I reached out to the current PGI1 residents that were there.
00:17:18
Speaker
I was like, hey, just want to let you know, I'm going to be your ID pharmacist here in a few months.
00:17:23
Speaker
Right.
00:17:25
Speaker
Since you are recently licensed, I was curious what resources you guys used.
00:17:30
Speaker
And they were more than helpful in pointing me towards the Board of Pharmacy actually has, at least for Missouri, they have a very nice pharmacist practice guide that really dives into all the laws, gives examples.
00:17:43
Speaker
It was overkill for an MPJE.
00:17:45
Speaker
Wow.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, I wish I had something like that.
00:17:48
Speaker
I didn't, but it must be nice.
00:17:51
Speaker
And something else that was really helpful, and this was more when I was in Florida, was there's a ton of different states, or a ton of different states.
00:17:58
Speaker
There's a ton of different pharmacy schools in the area.
00:18:00
Speaker
So it was nice to ask current students, saying, hey, would you mind sharing with me your notes from your class?
00:18:08
Speaker
that uh or share with me your notes from your law classes so i can get more examples of like practice cases to apply stuff to and that was super helpful because you know i had all i had known was kansas law up until having to all of a sudden study for floridas so having these other case situations of like hey this is florida's law this is how it's been interpreted before and here are some cases and examples to go through was so so so helpful
00:18:35
Speaker
Now, not every state, like in Kansas, there's one pharmacy school.
00:18:39
Speaker
So if you don't have good notes like that from a student, then you're kind of out of luck.
00:18:44
Speaker
But Florida had plenty of pharmacy schools.
00:18:46
Speaker
So I think I had three different schools that students were more than happy to share with me the notes that they had.
00:18:56
Speaker
That's helpful.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah, Rhode Island was the same way.
00:18:58
Speaker
There's only one pharmacy school.
00:18:59
Speaker
So you kind of have to, you can ask those students for their notes.
00:19:04
Speaker
And
00:19:05
Speaker
help practice with them and they're a helpful resource for sure.
Utilizing TLDR Summaries and Discounts
00:19:10
Speaker
I think another resource that we haven't talked about, which I'm really excited to kind of discuss is TLDR.
00:19:18
Speaker
Did you ever use that?
00:19:19
Speaker
I loved TLDR stuff.
00:19:21
Speaker
I actually use that.
00:19:23
Speaker
So they have two types of resources for the MPJE and I used both of them for all four states.
00:19:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:29
Speaker
I only used one of them, but talk to me about both of them and what the difference is between the two.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:35
Speaker
So there were, there are two resources.
00:19:37
Speaker
There is a fill in the blank and then there is a already filled in for each.
00:19:44
Speaker
Well, I don't think for each of the States, I think for most States they have them all four States that I needed, they had available.
00:19:50
Speaker
So I feel like they're always adding more dependent on the,
00:19:56
Speaker
Who's asking for it?
00:19:56
Speaker
What states need it?
00:19:59
Speaker
But I had, so I had both the one that you, you fill out.
00:20:02
Speaker
So it's very helpful for, you know, developing that repetition and that memorization of like, okay, well, how many and who is on the board of pharmacy?
00:20:10
Speaker
Are they, are they like Florida where there's like specifically certain types of
00:20:15
Speaker
of pharmacists on the board, whereas some other states are like, no, you just need seven pharmacists and that's fine.
00:20:20
Speaker
So it's helpful to have that one to fill in the blank.
00:20:22
Speaker
But what's really helpful, and I think this is the best part, like when you're studying for an exam like this, sure, you can go through and like slog through all the statutes and regs.
00:20:33
Speaker
That is a great way to get from
00:20:36
Speaker
very intimately familiar with the statutes and regs of the states it's a lot of time and so if you're someone who's like i don't want to slog through all this that's really where the i feel like the tldr summaries really shine is that there is the note on there that says or they'll put the answer to common
00:20:58
Speaker
topics that the mpj would cover but they have the link to the citation which i think is amazing like sure you can test your ability to pull up the statutes and regs and hit ctrl f and find what you're looking for but that certain word like prescription might show up 700 times so it's really helpful to have something that says like oh here's the pharmacist to technician ratio and here is the specific law that discusses it
00:21:24
Speaker
Something else that I really like that they would do is if there were inconsistencies with the law or like laws that combated each other.
00:21:31
Speaker
Like I know Florida was one, like there was a law that said you can't have a pharmacist to tech ratio.
00:21:37
Speaker
That's like this.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker
but exempt exemptions here a through z and so like it was all spelled out there like yeah depending on how they ask the question you'll want to answer it this way but here's how you know it gives you the resource it's not going to tell you now here's how you answer all of the mpje's questions it's like no here's the resource so if you don't feel comfortable answering questions about this subject here's the resource to go to get familiar with it
00:22:06
Speaker
like um orange book therapeutic interchanges like if you can't remember what like a a a x b x mean well there you go it tells you to this is the resource to go and look at that so i really like it i feel like you know you look at something it's like oh it's a summary sheet and it's 17 18 pages long i mean yeah there's a ton of laws out there i mean if you were to just go and blindly
00:22:29
Speaker
read the statutes and regs, that's almost like two, 300 pages just for the state specific laws, not including all the federal controlled substance laws, all of the different resources out there, like the specific federal laws, all the orange, yellow, red, all those other books.
00:22:45
Speaker
So it's nice having it all in one resource.
00:22:47
Speaker
So I'll always be a big fan of TLDR stuff.
00:22:50
Speaker
And I feel like typos and that kind of stuff I've not really seen in those.
00:22:53
Speaker
So it kind of also is a testament to the quality.
00:22:56
Speaker
Because you don't want to pay for something and then there's typos and issues all throughout it.
00:23:02
Speaker
Or conflicting answers.
00:23:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:07
Speaker
That's very true.
00:23:07
Speaker
And yeah, I think it's a testament to the resource itself.
00:23:12
Speaker
I'm really excited because I know you reached out to TLDR and do you kind of want to give our listeners a little bit of information on what you kind of discussed?
00:23:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, TLDR is being very generous and they are giving a 10% off using our code PKPD10.
00:23:31
Speaker
There's no slash in there.
00:23:32
Speaker
It's just PKPD10 and you can get 10% off your purchase.
00:23:36
Speaker
So I think that's awesome because I mean, I'll gladly be a spokesperson for it if I'm allowed to, but it was, I think it's awesome that, but that code is only going to be good for 60 days from when this episode launches.
00:23:50
Speaker
So yeah.
00:23:51
Speaker
If you haven't taken the MPJ yet and you're trying to think of other resources to help really streamline your studying, I will definitely advocate for them and will vouch that, you know, it helped me.
00:24:04
Speaker
So hopefully it can help you.
00:24:06
Speaker
Helped me as well.
00:24:07
Speaker
So...
00:24:09
Speaker
Remember that code.
00:24:10
Speaker
You get 10% off.
00:24:11
Speaker
And I think it's $75 for the state.
00:24:14
Speaker
I think it's like $75 for each sheet for like for each state.
00:24:20
Speaker
And then it's like 20 some dollars to get the sheet that's fill in the blank.
00:24:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:25
Speaker
Good to know.
00:24:26
Speaker
So yeah, 10% off of that.
00:24:27
Speaker
It's still helpful.
00:24:29
Speaker
And we're all students and getting or residents at that point switching to maybe a different state.
00:24:34
Speaker
But saving money is...
00:24:36
Speaker
anything at this point i wish i had that code whatever i knew all the mpjes i would be taking and i could just get all four you would have saved so much money hunter throughout the four oh jeez i wish i could save money with this licensing yeah uh okay so but other things that help aside from these resources and if people saw it on twitter they already know what i'm talking about but everybody has their like weird
00:25:01
Speaker
practices rituals that they do to help them take tests.
Mental Readiness and Exam Superstitions
00:25:05
Speaker
So I've got all mine but Callan do you have any just weird things that you do to help make sure you pass a test?
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:14
Speaker
So I actually have this really weird – okay.
00:25:17
Speaker
I don't think it's really weird, but when I took – so backstory.
00:25:21
Speaker
When I took my – the PCAT to get into pharmacy school, I remember I was sitting in the car and these two pharmacy students who just graduated were next to me and they were blasting this Eminem song.
00:25:34
Speaker
It was – why can't I think about it?
00:25:36
Speaker
Why can't I think of the name of it?
00:25:37
Speaker
It's
00:25:40
Speaker
It's like the pump up song.
00:25:42
Speaker
I feel like I'm going to lose myself going into taking the- It's lose yourself.
00:25:45
Speaker
Lose yourself.
00:25:46
Speaker
It's lose yourself.
00:25:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:48
Speaker
I was about to say like if there's any a song I'm like going to get hyped up for taking the stupid exam, it'd be that one.
00:25:53
Speaker
So I remember sitting in my car scared because I'm like, what if I don't get into pharmacy school and I failed a PCAT?
00:25:59
Speaker
And I remember these two students were – or these two, yeah, students who just graduated were about to take their-
00:26:05
Speaker
big NAPLEX and they were like jamming out to this song.
00:26:09
Speaker
And so I said, you know what?
00:26:10
Speaker
In four years, I'm going to jam out to that song before I take my exams, just like them.
00:26:16
Speaker
Four years go by and I am now in my car and I do the exact same thing.
00:26:21
Speaker
And I blast every time before I go into my, the Pearson VUE exam center.
00:26:26
Speaker
So that's just like my ritual.
00:26:28
Speaker
Had to listen to that song, pump myself up.
00:26:30
Speaker
And then I'm on my way to take my exams.
00:26:33
Speaker
So yeah, that's my ritual.
00:26:33
Speaker
It's nothing crazy.
00:26:34
Speaker
I don't know if it helps or not, but I'm just going to go with it and pretend it does.
00:26:38
Speaker
Also, though, since you said PCAT and feeling stressed about it, how do you feel now that that stupid thing is gone?
00:26:46
Speaker
You know, is it gone for good for good?
00:26:50
Speaker
Because I feel like certain schools are waiving it and certain ones aren't.
00:26:55
Speaker
It's being retired.
00:26:56
Speaker
Let me see when it is going to be retired.
00:26:58
Speaker
I don't want to give any misinformation, but I thought they were in the process of getting rid of it.
00:27:05
Speaker
But I don't know if they actually did.
00:27:06
Speaker
On December 6, 2022, AACP announced that the PCAT will be retired in 2024.
00:27:13
Speaker
So next, this is the last year.
00:27:15
Speaker
Oh, I guess it's still going on.
00:27:17
Speaker
But I don't know.
00:27:18
Speaker
Most people, I feel like, aren't even using the PCAT anymore.
00:27:21
Speaker
They're just saying... Which I remember talking to my dean about that.
00:27:28
Speaker
Do you feel like a PCAT score is that important for getting into pharmacy school?
00:27:31
Speaker
He's like...
00:27:32
Speaker
I'll quote him.
00:27:33
Speaker
He was like, it's voodoo.
00:27:34
Speaker
Like, I've had fantastic students do terrible on the PCAT, and I've had students that didn't perform as well, but had a phenomenal PCAT.
00:27:43
Speaker
So like, there's not, it's not a good predictor of academic success.
00:27:47
Speaker
I agree with that.
00:27:48
Speaker
I totally understand why it's gone.
00:27:50
Speaker
But what do you use at its place, I guess?
00:27:53
Speaker
Something that's more accurate.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's the hard thing.
00:27:57
Speaker
I don't know what pharmacy schools are going to do in the future regarding that.
00:28:02
Speaker
But, you know, that can be another episode for another day, which we can dive into.
00:28:07
Speaker
But yeah, it's going to be an interesting next couple of years to see how they're going to vet the next generation of pharmacy students.
00:28:15
Speaker
But yeah, sorry, back to our – that was a little off tangent, but yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
voodoo and other things that we do to help us pass our test because I feel like I have a ton and I had to share it on Twitter the other day after I walked out of my fourth MPJE.
00:28:30
Speaker
Okay, I didn't hear these so you're going to have to explain these.
00:28:34
Speaker
First I wear the exact same shirt.
00:28:36
Speaker
I have the exact same shirt that I've worn for both for the NAPLEX and all my MPJEs.
00:28:42
Speaker
The poor shirt is falling apart, but I am holding onto it for dear life because I will probably wear that when I do my board cert exams.
00:28:51
Speaker
What does the shirt look like?
00:28:52
Speaker
Does it have writing on it?
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's an old H&M shirt, and it says, I think it's Equip du Sport, so it's something French on it that says Equipped for Sports or something.
00:29:07
Speaker
But it's this like real, yeah, it's this like really soft, like Heather gray shirt.
00:29:12
Speaker
It's very comfortable, but there are holes all over it.
00:29:14
Speaker
Like it, it looks like a shirt that someone's struggling to let go of.
00:29:21
Speaker
That's the first thing I do.
00:29:23
Speaker
I mean, I pretty much always show up like 30 minutes before the exam to study in my car.
00:29:28
Speaker
But just like someone has just all of a sudden vanished, I leave my notes and all the resources that I had that I taken with me to the exam.
00:29:38
Speaker
Well, to my car before walking to the exam.
00:29:41
Speaker
It is thrown all about the backseat.
00:29:44
Speaker
And I don't touch it until I know I have a license.
00:29:48
Speaker
No one can touch it.
00:29:49
Speaker
No one can throw away the notes.
00:29:52
Speaker
It just it stays there because, you know, you never know if you fail, you're going to need those notes again.
00:29:57
Speaker
So I don't want to lose them.
00:29:58
Speaker
So I've also been a little lazy.
00:30:00
Speaker
The notes are still strewn about my car and I got my license last week.
00:30:04
Speaker
So you got to pick those up at some point.
00:30:06
Speaker
But, you know.
00:30:08
Speaker
It's a nice reminder, I think, when you go into your car.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yep.
00:30:14
Speaker
Especially like, yep, I passed.
00:30:15
Speaker
I should really throw these away or get rid of them.
00:30:18
Speaker
Yeah, hopefully it's the last one you have to take.
00:30:21
Speaker
Knock on wood.
00:30:22
Speaker
Gosh, I hope so.
00:30:24
Speaker
I mean, I'm going to be surrendering.
00:30:25
Speaker
And that's the other thing is like Florida's MPJE was so hard.
00:30:29
Speaker
I got the license.
00:30:29
Speaker
Now I'm like, I don't have any plans to go back.
00:30:31
Speaker
And I'm like, ugh.
00:30:33
Speaker
How how much am I really not going to go back?
00:30:35
Speaker
Is it enough to say like the MPJ wasn't worth it?
00:30:38
Speaker
I'm done.
00:30:38
Speaker
Like, oh, that's a tough thing, I think, is I don't know if I could do it.
00:30:43
Speaker
I would have to really reevaluate if I would ever go back there.
00:30:46
Speaker
But that's a tough decision for sure.
00:30:48
Speaker
Are there any other superstitious things that you do?
00:30:53
Speaker
Those are the main things.
00:30:54
Speaker
Same shirt.
00:30:55
Speaker
Everything gets strewn about in the car.
00:30:57
Speaker
Oh, oh, no, there's one more thing.
00:30:58
Speaker
I can't believe I almost forgot it.
00:31:00
Speaker
I never, ever vocalize any sense of confidence whatsoever.
00:31:04
Speaker
Like I never I never say when I pass.
00:31:07
Speaker
I say if I pass.
00:31:09
Speaker
I never say like, oh yeah, I'm totally going to do well in this exam.
00:31:12
Speaker
I felt like I've studied enough.
00:31:13
Speaker
It is always a state of mind of, man, I'm not going to do well.
00:31:16
Speaker
I don't feel prepared.
00:31:18
Speaker
And then when I walk out of the exam, I always feel like I failed, which people will say that if you feel like you failed the exam, you likely passed.
00:31:27
Speaker
I felt like I failed every time, but I passed.
00:31:30
Speaker
So is there some truth to it?
00:31:32
Speaker
The exams, other than infectious disease topics in pharmacy school that I felt like I did great on, I did terrible.
00:31:38
Speaker
So
00:31:40
Speaker
I think it's a sense of like, oh, if you've got like a bunch of confidence, you feel like you're going to do well, then do you just stop preparing and have a false sense of confidence?
00:31:47
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:47
Speaker
I feel like everybody's different, but for the law exam, walk out of there feeling like you failed it is what I'm saying.
00:31:55
Speaker
And you probably passed.
00:31:57
Speaker
Exactly.
00:31:57
Speaker
And if you didn't, then guess what?
00:31:59
Speaker
You just retake it again, not the end of the world.
00:32:01
Speaker
And I think that's also a huge thing that we have to kind of talk about is that, yeah, if you don't pass, it's not the end of the world.
00:32:07
Speaker
You can retake it.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yes, it's
00:32:10
Speaker
extra money, but you still have those attempts.
00:32:13
Speaker
And yeah, any words of advice?
00:32:16
Speaker
I think the last thing we should end with this podcast is maybe like words of advice or helpful tips and tricks before you go.
Encouragement and Personal Professional Experiences
00:32:23
Speaker
I think that definitely don't ruminate on any of the weird questions you saw in the MPJ.
00:32:32
Speaker
Even if you felt like you didn't study them, I think there's always going to be those trash questions.
00:32:37
Speaker
I think they add in a couple, like eight or so or 12.
00:32:40
Speaker
I can't remember the exact number.
00:32:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:32:42
Speaker
The ones that are like the experimental questions.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yes.
00:32:45
Speaker
So like if you come across a question, you're like, what the heck?
00:32:48
Speaker
I've never seen this.
00:32:49
Speaker
It's probably a trash question and don't think too hard on it and, you know, move on to the next one.
00:32:55
Speaker
So I think that's probably my best advice and just don't overthink because the MPJE is so easy to overthink the questions and get them wrong.
00:33:05
Speaker
But if you just really look at it and look at the question itself and reread it a couple times –
00:33:12
Speaker
and slow down your process of thinking.
00:33:14
Speaker
And I would be very remiss if I didn't talk about how the MPJE, it is designed in a way to really test your confidence.
00:33:22
Speaker
And so don't be surprised if you do see multiple questions that are of a similar type.
00:33:28
Speaker
This test is really, it is designed to make sure you know the law, that when situated with that, with the case, you are going to do, one, you're going to follow the law,
00:33:41
Speaker
But two, also think about what's best for the patient.
00:33:44
Speaker
And so I can say like all the practice questions, practice tests I did, if whenever I had that mindset of like what's going to be best for the patient, but also not cost me my license, as long as I kept those two ideas in mind, I felt like I got questions.
00:33:57
Speaker
Even that I had no idea what the right answer was, if I kept those two principles in mind, I usually would get the question right even on a pure guess.
00:34:06
Speaker
Hopefully it works.
00:34:07
Speaker
I'm sure it will.
00:34:08
Speaker
I'm sure it will.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, hopefully this episode is helpful in some sort of way.
00:34:12
Speaker
And I know we kind of touched upon it pretty quickly here, but we're just trying to get as much as we can down for you guys who are about to take it at least.
00:34:21
Speaker
And one more thing to touch on because you did bring it up and I feel like I should have talked about it more, but it is not the end of the world if you fail it.
00:34:29
Speaker
Plenty of people fail the law exam, especially when they have a residency.
00:34:34
Speaker
It is not the end of the world.
00:34:35
Speaker
The moment you find out that news, that is a conversation you need to go have with your RPD.
00:34:40
Speaker
Say, hey, here's what happened.
00:34:42
Speaker
That's, I mean, without getting too much into the weeds of it, that's something that, yes, let your RPD know or let your employer know if you're in that situation.
00:34:50
Speaker
It's not the end of the world.
00:34:52
Speaker
You can retake it.
00:34:52
Speaker
You can actually retake it pretty quickly.
00:34:54
Speaker
I think it's like 30, 60.
00:34:55
Speaker
It depends on the state.
00:34:57
Speaker
I think it's usually like 60 days or 30 days, but it's all dependent on the state.
00:35:02
Speaker
But it's not the end of the world.
00:35:04
Speaker
If people are going to fail a test, it's usually the MPJE over the NAPLEX because like we said, you get how many classes?
00:35:09
Speaker
Few classes on the law test and a bunch of content on the NAPLEX.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:14
Speaker
And not to mention that if you're going to a different state, it's going to be a completely different law class.
00:35:18
Speaker
So might as well just throw out what you know anyway.
00:35:20
Speaker
Not really, but take it with a grain of salt for sure.
00:35:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:24
Speaker
I think that's all I have unless you've got something else to add.
00:35:28
Speaker
I think we can dive into peaks and troughs now.
00:35:32
Speaker
So yeah, you start with your peak.
00:35:34
Speaker
Or trough, I guess.
00:35:36
Speaker
No, I'll start with my peak.
00:35:37
Speaker
So you can kind of tell when we were recording this episode, but it was recently ID Pharmacist Day.
00:35:43
Speaker
And so what better way I got to celebrate ID Pharmacist Day than getting to run the stewardship service on my own?
00:35:52
Speaker
So, I mean, that was, it was a very high census, a lot of restricted antimicrobials.
00:35:57
Speaker
It was just me reviewing the whole list, working with the pharmacist within my health system and rounding with our ID provider.
00:36:05
Speaker
Like I was like, dang, I feel like an ID pharmacist today.
00:36:09
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:36:10
Speaker
It's nice to get that independence.
00:36:11
Speaker
It really helped with the imposter syndrome, which kind of goes into my trough of I'm really realizing one of the committees that I'm on within one of the organizations I'm with is
00:36:26
Speaker
being on a recognitions committee where you are scoring people for fellowship designation or like career awards as a trainee has done for the most part, just like really brought out some major, um,
00:36:43
Speaker
imposter syndrome, I would say like, oh my gosh, like, am I even like eligible to score you?
00:36:49
Speaker
But trainees have been on this committee before, but I don't know.
00:36:53
Speaker
It's just been really hard to look at it and go, dang, I want to do that.
00:36:58
Speaker
How do I get to that point?
00:36:59
Speaker
But everybody's definition of success is different.
00:37:02
Speaker
Everybody's career path is different.
00:37:05
Speaker
So
00:37:06
Speaker
like not trying to not compare myself to them is very very difficult i feel like this has been a good exercise but i've been on this committee for almost what three four years now and every time it comes time for one of those meetings i'm like everybody's talking and they have a lot of good contributions and i feel like i should just keep my mouth shut
00:37:26
Speaker
And my confidence plummets right now.
00:37:31
Speaker
I mean, we'll talk about it in a different episode, I think, as far as like mental health goes and different things that kind of can really make or break your career too, especially in pharmacy.
00:37:40
Speaker
But that's comparing yourself to others.
00:37:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:42
Speaker
You're comparing yourself to – Probably the worst thing to do.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:46
Speaker
And we all do it.
00:37:47
Speaker
We all do.
00:37:47
Speaker
We're all guilty.
00:37:48
Speaker
And I think it's just – we're all high achievers in this –
00:37:53
Speaker
career field, especially in this clinical space too.
00:37:56
Speaker
And so it's, it makes it really hard and tough at certain points, but yeah, I agree.
00:38:01
Speaker
And I'm thanks for being transparent about it.
00:38:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:04
Speaker
I mean, I feel like it's a good learning experience, but man, every time those committee meetings happen, it's, it's tough.
00:38:10
Speaker
And I, I'd be lying if I said, I don't have any imposter syndrome deciding if someone deserves fellowship or not.
00:38:17
Speaker
We'll come up with a solution to, to fight it.
00:38:19
Speaker
So.
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:21
Speaker
All right.
00:38:21
Speaker
What about you?
00:38:22
Speaker
My peak is, so I've been working with two, three, actually three students, one pharmacy student and two undergrad students.
00:38:30
Speaker
And now that I'm kind of transitioning into this other role, I have more responsibilities.
00:38:35
Speaker
So I'm actually able to kind of be like this preceptor mentor to this pharmacy student.
00:38:41
Speaker
And she's actually been, yeah, she's been doing really well in the lab.
00:38:45
Speaker
And I just love like
00:38:47
Speaker
getting other pharmacy students excited about translational research.
00:38:50
Speaker
So it's exciting to see like her do well and me being able to teach her and the other students in general.
00:38:58
Speaker
So it's been pretty rewarding.
00:38:59
Speaker
I miss teaching others and it's great we have students back in the summer.
00:39:04
Speaker
And then my trough, I would have to say, so it kind of bounces off my peak, but since I've been mentoring this student, I realized that I had become one of the preceptors that I don't like.
00:39:17
Speaker
And it was, I think, around 1.
00:39:20
Speaker
And she's like, can I eat lunch?
00:39:22
Speaker
And I was like, oh my gosh, I totally forgot to give this poor girl lunch.
00:39:27
Speaker
I just wasn't thinking because I was just running around.
00:39:29
Speaker
And I was like, oh my goodness, I have become that preceptor where I was like, I need to eat.
00:39:34
Speaker
And so I was like, yes, definitely go take lunch.
00:39:37
Speaker
I'm so sorry.
00:39:38
Speaker
And so from that point on, I remember and remind her to take a lunch because when I was a student, I appreciated that.
00:39:46
Speaker
Well, I mean, the first step is, you know, recognizing that you're such a terrible preceptor, Callan, but it's okay.
00:39:52
Speaker
I made that exact same mistake today as well.
00:39:55
Speaker
And like my preceptor came over like, oh, yes, go to lunch now.
00:39:59
Speaker
It's like, oh, OK, well, I should have done that, but sorry.
00:40:04
Speaker
I think that wraps up our episode.
00:40:08
Speaker
I believe what we have next on our docket is diving into the NAPLEX.
00:40:12
Speaker
So we'll that'll be a lot of fun.
00:40:15
Speaker
I know we all have we have strong feelings about the MPJE, but I think the NAPLEX, we think much more of that long behemoth of an exam.
00:40:24
Speaker
And we're excited to give you our tips and tricks for that.
00:40:27
Speaker
Thanks for joining us and thanks for listening.