Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Practical Knowledge for Personal Development, or PKPD for short, a pharmacy podcast where we explore the various ways to grow as a person and pharmacist by discussing common questions asked by pharmacy learners.
Speaker: Our ambition is to see our listeners achieve their personal and professional goals.
Speaker: In this episode, we'll talk about the dreaded law exam, the MPJE, how do I pass the MPJE,
Speaker: So before we start this episode, I think it's important to give our disclaimer as a podcast and people who have taken MPJs in the exam before.
Speaker: We are not giving out any exam answers or anything along that matter.
Speaker: We are just here to simply give helpful tips and tricks and strategies to better take your exam and test taking skills.
Speaker: Hunter, anything else you want to add as far as the disclaimer goes?
Speaker: Totally agree with what you said.
Speaker: This is not a, like, don't listen to this expecting to get freebies and free answers to questions.
Speaker: The resources we're going to dive into are going to help you feel prepared going into those exams.
Speaker: Really, the best way to pass is to, you know, use these resources.
Speaker: But, yeah.
Speaker: You're not going to get any freebies.
Speaker: We're not going to have our podcast taken down because we violated the same things that we filled out when we went to take these exams.
Speaker: So Callan, can you give us a brief overview of this monstrosity, this dreaded the law exam, the thing that everyone would rather do?
Speaker: They would rather do anything other than move to another state where they have to take a new law exam or even their very first one.
Speaker: And they haven't gotten to have that luxury yet.
Speaker: We love it.
Speaker: Love to see it.
Speaker: The MPJA, also known as the Multistate Pharmacy Jurisprudence Examination.
Speaker: I didn't know that off the top of my head.
Speaker: I had to read that.
Speaker: Basically, it's this two and a half hour exam and it has about 120 questions.
Speaker: Results will either be pass, fail, and you'll get those results after you take it.
Speaker: It depends on, I think, the exam, right?
Speaker: As far as getting the results back, Hunter?
Speaker: Yeah, that's I've experienced that with Minnesota that I didn't find out I passed until I just found out one day I had a license.
Speaker: So certain states, you can't just refresh, refresh, refresh and get your results right away.
Speaker: Some states like what I got will do that.
Speaker: Like you only have so many attempts that you can take before the state may say like, hold on, you have to do XYZ in order to take it again.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think that's why it's so challenging to talk about the MPJE because there's, what, 50 different states?
Speaker: Certain states have their own MPJE.
Speaker: California has a CPJE, very different from the MPJE.
Speaker: Each state has different laws, so it's really hard to kind of streamline this and talk about it.
Speaker: We're just going to kind of give a brief overview as best as we can.
Speaker: But yeah, take this with a grain of salt because every state is going to be very different.
Speaker: But another big thing like why we're wanting to do this episode on the MPJE is when you think about it, how many classes do you have that the NAPLEX covers?
Speaker: Whereas how many law tests or law classes do you cover?
Speaker: Like for me, I know I had a law class my P1 year and I had a law class right before I went on rotation.
Speaker: So I had those two classes that that is what was going to prepare me to take the law exam.
Speaker: Whereas all the other classes pretty much, you could argue some less and others more, were covered by the NAPLEX.
Speaker: Yeah, I remember I took our law course my P1 year.
Speaker: So when it came back to my P4 year about to take the MPJ, you know, it's been four years since I've taken a law course.
Speaker: So
Speaker: It's definitely refreshing on that knowledge and there's some good resources out there to kind of help you successfully navigate this exam.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Let's talk a bit about logistics.
Speaker: Logistics.
Speaker: Tips or logistics?
Speaker: I guess, yeah, both intertwined because, you know, once someone actually has that test scheduled, what does it look like from the time you walk into the door to sitting down taking the test?
Speaker: I mean, it's going to vary for each person, no?
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: I mean, you know, I've done it in four different states and the process I feel like has been pretty similar.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So you speak on that.
Speaker: I mean, show up on time.
Speaker: Because I've only taken it once.
Speaker: I'm not the guru here of the MPJE.
Speaker: So you are.
Speaker: Yeah, I should be.
Speaker: I should be talking about that.
Speaker: My bad.
Speaker: All four of the states I've taken in, it's all been pretty similar.
Speaker: You're going into a controlled environment.
Speaker: If you've ever taken the, what is it?
Speaker: The old...
Speaker: What is it?
Speaker: PCAT.
Speaker: Yeah, if you ever took the PCAT, it's in a similar environment, a controlled environment.
Speaker: If you've taken any kind of standardized exam at a supervised facility, you're going to go through the same process to take this, making sure you have your ID available, realizing that this exam compared to the NAPLEX, there are no breaks.
Speaker: So you...
Speaker: If you decide that you need to use the bathroom in the middle of it, that is coming from your two and a half hours to take it.
Speaker: Definitely arrive early.
Speaker: I was one of those people that probably got there way too early.
Speaker: So I would just sit in my car reviewing some of my notes last minute right before going into the test.
Speaker: But I'd rather be a little bit early rather than a little bit late.
Speaker: Because if you show up late and you are still allowed to test, that can be cutting into your test-taking time.
Speaker: So just make sure you know where you're going.
Speaker: A lot of times, too, the places that do these tests are...
Speaker: I want to say it's Pearson Vue that administers it.
Speaker: So like they may be small offices within a large building.
Speaker: So it's not some places may have like a little standalone.
Speaker: It's really easy to find, whereas others are like, go up the elevator and then go down these two different ways.
Speaker: And it's like on the seventh floor in this area over here.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: If you've got that figured out before you've got the eebie-jeebies from taking the test, it's much less stressful.
Speaker: Yeah, that's very helpful.
Speaker: I also think, one, the bathroom break, like you mentioned, if you do have to take it, understand that when you do take it, you have to go through all that security measures.
Speaker: So that's taking off your glasses and then they make you empty out your pockets and turn around.
Speaker: And so there's this whole process.
Speaker: So if you think, oh, I'm just going to use the bathroom quickly, it's probably at least going to be a five-minute ordeal.
Speaker: if not more.
Speaker: And there might be people ahead of you trying to get in to take the exam and they have to vet them first.
Speaker: So just keep that in mind if you do have to use the bathroom.
Speaker: And then obviously have your ID.
Speaker: I think that's also important.
Speaker: There's appropriate ID and identification on the NABP website.
Speaker: So you can kind of look at that and yeah, I find that to be helpful.
Speaker: And don't forget that the
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: You don't want to show up not having the resources you need, then you lose your testing seat.
Speaker: All right, let's dive into our resources because there's a lot of resources out there, some better than others, some that cost money, some that are free.
Speaker: You know, it's an expensive test.
Speaker: You know, people are looking at, I think we talked about it in some of our prior episodes, that taking the exam is incredibly expensive.
Speaker: And while it's nice to, you know, pass it on the first try because you are done, you know,
Speaker: having to retake it is very expensive and you have to redo all of those other fees.
Speaker: So there is a reason why people will spend a lot of money on all of these different resources to feel most prepared for going into that test.
Speaker: But you also don't need to buy every single resource that is out there.
Speaker: So kind of starting with like our first options that are available, let's kind of highlight some of...
Speaker: Our favorite resources.
Speaker: I will start with I love the DEA pharmacist manual.
Speaker: I think that's something that people don't realize exist.
Speaker: But since controlled substances are on everybody's MPJE.
Speaker: Most states do a pretty good job of just kind of copying what is legislated at the federal level.
Speaker: So there is a DEA pharmacist manual that pretty much lays out all of the controlled substance stuff for you.
Speaker: Well, and it's nice that it's free.
Speaker: So that's something that like, you know, a lot of people talk about paid resources, like try and use your free resources as much as you can.
Speaker: But that thing, you know, it's almost like a 200 page document, but it does a very good job of
Speaker: of explaining or really taking away a lot of the gray area with the mpje of like oh what do i do in this situation there's a controlled substance involved i think the document does a really good job explaining like hey these are like some hypothetical situations that you may need to apply the uh this controlled substance law to and agreed agreed and i also think
Speaker: using those free resources first is a good start.
Speaker: So the NABP has a really, on each exam or each state, I should say, they have their competency statements.
Speaker: Correct me if I'm wrong, Hunter.
Speaker: But I felt like those are very helpful to look over and get a good overview of what that state is asking and what they're going to expect me to know.
Speaker: So I use that as like sort of my guide and reference.
Speaker: And then once I looked over that, then I looked over other resources too to kind of help build upon it.
Speaker: That's very good that you highlight that because that's essentially them breaking down, hey, here's what we're going to test you on.
Speaker: We're not going to tell you specifically what the situation is going to be involved or what the situation will involve, but we're telling you the kind of content to look at.
Speaker: And especially when they break down, I forget the specific percentages, but it is a very, very low percentage of licensing.
Speaker: What does it take to be a pharmacist license, I think, is one of the examples in the
Speaker: like super low percentage area and there's even a lower percentage for like specifically federal laws.
Speaker: So it's like, should you be spending a ton of time studying the things that are covered the least in that exam?
Speaker: So it helps you break down like, oh, this is in the 83% section.
Speaker: I should be familiar with what it means for a pharmacist to legally dispense a prescription.
Speaker: as opposed to, you know, the difference between like the food and drug cosmetic act and like what it entails.
Speaker: Let's see, what else do we want to highlight on?
Speaker: I'm glad you highlight that one because that's like the, if you're not familiar with that, you can't start studying because you don't know what the domains of the test are.
Speaker: And I know some people, this is kind of
Speaker: going off of this, but when should you take the MPJ and should you take the MPJ first before the NAPLEX or should you take the NAPLEX first?
Speaker: Now, this is a controversial opinion.
Speaker: I feel indifferent about it.
Speaker: What did you do?
Speaker: I took my MPJE first and then the NAPLEX, which honestly I kind of liked, but everyone has like a different way of studying.
Speaker: But I know a lot of people took their NAPLEX first and then their MPJE.
Speaker: So whatever you think.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, that's what I did.
Speaker: I took my NAPLEX first and then my MPJE a week later.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: I didn't.
Speaker: I spaced mine out.
Speaker: Oh, no.
Speaker: I wanted to get those suckers done right away.
Speaker: No, I feel like my brain would be in NAPLEX mode and not in MPJ mode, so I needed at least two weeks back.
Speaker: Well, especially, you know, everyone has a different amount of time they need to take the test.
Speaker: I feel like I hear that question a lot of how long do I need to study for it?
Speaker: That totally depends on how well do you perform on test?
Speaker: How much did you retain from school?
Speaker: How well, how long do you need to study to get the grade you need?
Speaker: Now, remember, these are tests of minimum competency.
Speaker: Nobody cares if you get 100% on an MPJE or an APLEX.
Speaker: This is strictly for the purpose of licensing.
Speaker: Someone who gets a perfect score on an APLEX is not a better pharmacist than someone who gets the minimum competency on the test.
Speaker: This is a standardized test of minimum competency.
Speaker: What really matters is how you practice in clinical practice, which we all know these exams are not designed to do.
Speaker: I mean, I felt like to me, three weeks studying nonstop was very sufficient to study for the MPJE.
Speaker: If you're eight hours a day for three weeks, I felt that that would be an okay amount of time to study.
Speaker: Yes, you're cramming.
Speaker: That's – oh my gosh, that's so much more than what I did.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't recommend it.
Speaker: But like I mean if you're really down to the line, I feel like that is definitely more than enough time looking back.
Speaker: And, you know, on the topic of having that much time, like when people ask how much time do I need to spend?
Speaker: Personally, this is one of the reasons why I'm a huge fan of the practice exams.
Speaker: Like that is a great way to tell, are you ready for the test?
Speaker: Because they use real questions that have been used before.
Speaker: I've taken a practice exam for every MPJE that I've sat for.
Speaker: I've scored a passing score.
Speaker: And I passed my exam.
Speaker: So, you know, I've got an N of four right here that I took the practice in PGE.
Speaker: I felt like, okay, those are the kind of questions, especially the kind of questions that that state cares about.
Speaker: So like, you know, there's a lot of information between the different states.
Speaker: I will say the practice in PGEs that I take, I was like, ah, this is, this is very reflective of what I feel like I'm going to encounter on the real deal.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: It's pricey.
Speaker: I think it's $75 per exam.
Speaker: I don't think there's any reason anyone needs to take multiple practice MPJEs unless you didn't pass the first one and you want to take another one to assess how much you've studied on.
Speaker: And this is through the NABP.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, that's through NABP.
Speaker: So the same website that you go in to register for the MPJE, that practice test.
Speaker: Good, good.
Speaker: Just to make sure we're on the same page.
Speaker: What other resources come to mind, Callan?
Speaker: So what helped me, and I felt like this was probably one of the more helpful resources, was PharmacyExam.com.
Speaker: I don't know if you used it.
Speaker: I know it's expensive.
Speaker: But I felt like it was helpful for what it was.
Speaker: And they had a lot of practice questions.
Speaker: I think I only went through the first three practice exams and not the rest.
Speaker: But I felt like the first three for my state that I was taking the MPJ in was sufficient for me to, you know, understand that material.
Speaker: What about you?
Speaker: Did you ever use PharmacyExam.com?
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: I had mixed feelings with it.
Speaker: I used it for all of my MPJEs and that I feel like is a great resource for someone who is like panicky feeling like they need someone to ask them questions.
Speaker: I'll be honest, I was kind of disappointed.
Speaker: I felt like there were a lot of typos.
Speaker: There were a lot of incongruencies between what it reported and what I saw on other resources that I had.
Speaker: Now that could also just be, you know,
Speaker: dependent on how you interpret the law, that's what's kind of challenging with an MPJE is that it's up to the test administrators and those that wrote the test that there is a most correct answer.
Speaker: But in real practice, that's up to the Board of Pharmacy or if you're getting sued in a civil court, up to the jury.
Speaker: I kind of want to chalk it up to that, but there were some questions I was like, I know it's saying this and this is the law it's citing, but this is not congruent with what the other resources I'm have are telling me and recommending.
Speaker: Even things as simple as what's the pharmacist to tech ratio?
Speaker: There were things that were not similar to what I had in other resources.
Speaker: So I was like, eh, okay.
Speaker: So if anything, it taught me like, oh, the answer's wrong.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, let me go and make sure I agree that my answer was wrong.
Speaker: or agree with it telling me my answer is wrong so i don't think i'd get it again even though i bought it like i think i bought it three times i didn't buy it for my kansas mpje but it's a i think it's like a hundred dollars yeah i can't remember but i knew i remember it was expensive that's all i can uh
Speaker: kind of muster up.
Speaker: But yeah, I remember looking through some of the questions with some of my co-residents at the time and we were like arguing over certain exam questions that it posted and we're like, no, this is right.
Speaker: No, this is right.
Speaker: So it was just – I think the thing with pharmacyexam.com
Speaker: That also kind of threw us off was that they would say one thing and then they would kind of contradict themselves in the same question.
Speaker: But I realized that they were asking state-specific questions and federal exam questions.
Speaker: So I was like, oh, this is why it's different.
Speaker: So I kind of put two and two together because I was just baffled.
Speaker: I was like, how are these so different?
Speaker: But it made sense when I started putting two and two together.
Speaker: But yeah, keep that in mind for sure, state versus federal.
Speaker: Any other questions?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Any other resources?
Speaker: I'm trying to think of, you know, we kind of go are going back and forth of paid and non-paid resources, but it's also, you know, we're thinking what comes to mind.
Speaker: It's helpful versus not as helpful.
Speaker: One thing that comes to mind that I think was one of the most helpful things was
Speaker: Ask someone who just got licensed, what did they use?
Speaker: And most often, if the school notes or the Board of Pharmacy's resources were good, they'll orient you to that.
Speaker: So that was one of the things I did with, actually, my new job.
Speaker: I reached out to the current PGI1 residents that were there.
Speaker: I was like, hey, just want to let you know, I'm going to be your ID pharmacist here in a few months.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Since you are recently licensed, I was curious what resources you guys used.
Speaker: And they were more than helpful in pointing me towards the Board of Pharmacy actually has, at least for Missouri, they have a very nice pharmacist practice guide that really dives into all the laws, gives examples.
Speaker: It was overkill for an MPJE.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Yeah, I wish I had something like that.
Speaker: I didn't, but it must be nice.
Speaker: And something else that was really helpful, and this was more when I was in Florida, was there's a ton of different states, or a ton of different states.
Speaker: There's a ton of different pharmacy schools in the area.
Speaker: So it was nice to ask current students, saying, hey, would you mind sharing with me your notes from your class?
Speaker: that uh or share with me your notes from your law classes so i can get more examples of like practice cases to apply stuff to and that was super helpful because you know i had all i had known was kansas law up until having to all of a sudden study for floridas so having these other case situations of like hey this is florida's law this is how it's been interpreted before and here are some cases and examples to go through was so so so helpful
Speaker: Now, not every state, like in Kansas, there's one pharmacy school.
Speaker: So if you don't have good notes like that from a student, then you're kind of out of luck.
Speaker: But Florida had plenty of pharmacy schools.
Speaker: So I think I had three different schools that students were more than happy to share with me the notes that they had.
Speaker: That's helpful.
Speaker: Yeah, Rhode Island was the same way.
Speaker: There's only one pharmacy school.
Speaker: So you kind of have to, you can ask those students for their notes.
Speaker: And
Speaker: help practice with them and they're a helpful resource for sure.
Speaker: I think another resource that we haven't talked about, which I'm really excited to kind of discuss is TLDR.
Speaker: Did you ever use that?
Speaker: I loved TLDR stuff.
Speaker: I actually use that.
Speaker: So they have two types of resources for the MPJE and I used both of them for all four states.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I only used one of them, but talk to me about both of them and what the difference is between the two.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So there were, there are two resources.
Speaker: There is a fill in the blank and then there is a already filled in for each.
Speaker: Well, I don't think for each of the States, I think for most States they have them all four States that I needed, they had available.
Speaker: So I feel like they're always adding more dependent on the,
Speaker: Who's asking for it?
Speaker: What states need it?
Speaker: But I had, so I had both the one that you, you fill out.
Speaker: So it's very helpful for, you know, developing that repetition and that memorization of like, okay, well, how many and who is on the board of pharmacy?
Speaker: Are they, are they like Florida where there's like specifically certain types of
Speaker: of pharmacists on the board, whereas some other states are like, no, you just need seven pharmacists and that's fine.
Speaker: So it's helpful to have that one to fill in the blank.
Speaker: But what's really helpful, and I think this is the best part, like when you're studying for an exam like this, sure, you can go through and like slog through all the statutes and regs.
Speaker: That is a great way to get from
Speaker: very intimately familiar with the statutes and regs of the states it's a lot of time and so if you're someone who's like i don't want to slog through all this that's really where the i feel like the tldr summaries really shine is that there is the note on there that says or they'll put the answer to common
Speaker: topics that the mpj would cover but they have the link to the citation which i think is amazing like sure you can test your ability to pull up the statutes and regs and hit ctrl f and find what you're looking for but that certain word like prescription might show up 700 times so it's really helpful to have something that says like oh here's the pharmacist to technician ratio and here is the specific law that discusses it
Speaker: Something else that I really like that they would do is if there were inconsistencies with the law or like laws that combated each other.
Speaker: Like I know Florida was one, like there was a law that said you can't have a pharmacist to tech ratio.
Speaker: That's like this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: but exempt exemptions here a through z and so like it was all spelled out there like yeah depending on how they ask the question you'll want to answer it this way but here's how you know it gives you the resource it's not going to tell you now here's how you answer all of the mpje's questions it's like no here's the resource so if you don't feel comfortable answering questions about this subject here's the resource to go to get familiar with it
Speaker: like um orange book therapeutic interchanges like if you can't remember what like a a a x b x mean well there you go it tells you to this is the resource to go and look at that so i really like it i feel like you know you look at something it's like oh it's a summary sheet and it's 17 18 pages long i mean yeah there's a ton of laws out there i mean if you were to just go and blindly
Speaker: read the statutes and regs, that's almost like two, 300 pages just for the state specific laws, not including all the federal controlled substance laws, all of the different resources out there, like the specific federal laws, all the orange, yellow, red, all those other books.
Speaker: So it's nice having it all in one resource.
Speaker: So I'll always be a big fan of TLDR stuff.
Speaker: And I feel like typos and that kind of stuff I've not really seen in those.
Speaker: So it kind of also is a testament to the quality.
Speaker: Because you don't want to pay for something and then there's typos and issues all throughout it.
Speaker: Or conflicting answers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's very true.
Speaker: And yeah, I think it's a testament to the resource itself.
Speaker: I'm really excited because I know you reached out to TLDR and do you kind of want to give our listeners a little bit of information on what you kind of discussed?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, TLDR is being very generous and they are giving a 10% off using our code PKPD10.
Speaker: There's no slash in there.
Speaker: It's just PKPD10 and you can get 10% off your purchase.
Speaker: So I think that's awesome because I mean, I'll gladly be a spokesperson for it if I'm allowed to, but it was, I think it's awesome that, but that code is only going to be good for 60 days from when this episode launches.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: If you haven't taken the MPJ yet and you're trying to think of other resources to help really streamline your studying, I will definitely advocate for them and will vouch that, you know, it helped me.
Speaker: So hopefully it can help you.
Speaker: Helped me as well.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Remember that code.
Speaker: You get 10% off.
Speaker: And I think it's $75 for the state.
Speaker: I think it's like $75 for each sheet for like for each state.
Speaker: And then it's like 20 some dollars to get the sheet that's fill in the blank.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Good to know.
Speaker: So yeah, 10% off of that.
Speaker: It's still helpful.
Speaker: And we're all students and getting or residents at that point switching to maybe a different state.
Speaker: But saving money is...
Speaker: anything at this point i wish i had that code whatever i knew all the mpjes i would be taking and i could just get all four you would have saved so much money hunter throughout the four oh jeez i wish i could save money with this licensing yeah uh okay so but other things that help aside from these resources and if people saw it on twitter they already know what i'm talking about but everybody has their like weird
Speaker: practices rituals that they do to help them take tests.
Speaker: So I've got all mine but Callan do you have any just weird things that you do to help make sure you pass a test?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I actually have this really weird – okay.
Speaker: I don't think it's really weird, but when I took – so backstory.
Speaker: When I took my – the PCAT to get into pharmacy school, I remember I was sitting in the car and these two pharmacy students who just graduated were next to me and they were blasting this Eminem song.
Speaker: It was – why can't I think about it?
Speaker: Why can't I think of the name of it?
Speaker: It's
Speaker: It's like the pump up song.
Speaker: I feel like I'm going to lose myself going into taking the- It's lose yourself.
Speaker: Lose yourself.
Speaker: It's lose yourself.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I was about to say like if there's any a song I'm like going to get hyped up for taking the stupid exam, it'd be that one.
Speaker: So I remember sitting in my car scared because I'm like, what if I don't get into pharmacy school and I failed a PCAT?
Speaker: And I remember these two students were – or these two, yeah, students who just graduated were about to take their-
Speaker: big NAPLEX and they were like jamming out to this song.
Speaker: And so I said, you know what?
Speaker: In four years, I'm going to jam out to that song before I take my exams, just like them.
Speaker: Four years go by and I am now in my car and I do the exact same thing.
Speaker: And I blast every time before I go into my, the Pearson VUE exam center.
Speaker: So that's just like my ritual.
Speaker: Had to listen to that song, pump myself up.
Speaker: And then I'm on my way to take my exams.
Speaker: So yeah, that's my ritual.
Speaker: It's nothing crazy.
Speaker: I don't know if it helps or not, but I'm just going to go with it and pretend it does.
Speaker: Also, though, since you said PCAT and feeling stressed about it, how do you feel now that that stupid thing is gone?
Speaker: You know, is it gone for good for good?
Speaker: Because I feel like certain schools are waiving it and certain ones aren't.
Speaker: It's being retired.
Speaker: Let me see when it is going to be retired.
Speaker: I don't want to give any misinformation, but I thought they were in the process of getting rid of it.
Speaker: But I don't know if they actually did.
Speaker: On December 6, 2022, AACP announced that the PCAT will be retired in 2024.
Speaker: So next, this is the last year.
Speaker: Oh, I guess it's still going on.
Speaker: But I don't know.
Speaker: Most people, I feel like, aren't even using the PCAT anymore.
Speaker: They're just saying... Which I remember talking to my dean about that.
Speaker: Do you feel like a PCAT score is that important for getting into pharmacy school?
Speaker: He's like...
Speaker: I'll quote him.
Speaker: He was like, it's voodoo.
Speaker: Like, I've had fantastic students do terrible on the PCAT, and I've had students that didn't perform as well, but had a phenomenal PCAT.
Speaker: So like, there's not, it's not a good predictor of academic success.
Speaker: I agree with that.
Speaker: I totally understand why it's gone.
Speaker: But what do you use at its place, I guess?
Speaker: Something that's more accurate.
Speaker: Yeah, that's the hard thing.
Speaker: I don't know what pharmacy schools are going to do in the future regarding that.
Speaker: But, you know, that can be another episode for another day, which we can dive into.
Speaker: But yeah, it's going to be an interesting next couple of years to see how they're going to vet the next generation of pharmacy students.
Speaker: But yeah, sorry, back to our – that was a little off tangent, but yeah.
Speaker: voodoo and other things that we do to help us pass our test because I feel like I have a ton and I had to share it on Twitter the other day after I walked out of my fourth MPJE.
Speaker: Okay, I didn't hear these so you're going to have to explain these.
Speaker: First I wear the exact same shirt.
Speaker: I have the exact same shirt that I've worn for both for the NAPLEX and all my MPJEs.
Speaker: The poor shirt is falling apart, but I am holding onto it for dear life because I will probably wear that when I do my board cert exams.
Speaker: What does the shirt look like?
Speaker: Does it have writing on it?
Speaker: Yeah, it's an old H&M shirt, and it says, I think it's Equip du Sport, so it's something French on it that says Equipped for Sports or something.
Speaker: But it's this like real, yeah, it's this like really soft, like Heather gray shirt.
Speaker: It's very comfortable, but there are holes all over it.
Speaker: Like it, it looks like a shirt that someone's struggling to let go of.
Speaker: That's the first thing I do.
Speaker: I mean, I pretty much always show up like 30 minutes before the exam to study in my car.
Speaker: But just like someone has just all of a sudden vanished, I leave my notes and all the resources that I had that I taken with me to the exam.
Speaker: Well, to my car before walking to the exam.
Speaker: It is thrown all about the backseat.
Speaker: And I don't touch it until I know I have a license.
Speaker: No one can touch it.
Speaker: No one can throw away the notes.
Speaker: It just it stays there because, you know, you never know if you fail, you're going to need those notes again.
Speaker: So I don't want to lose them.
Speaker: So I've also been a little lazy.
Speaker: The notes are still strewn about my car and I got my license last week.
Speaker: So you got to pick those up at some point.
Speaker: But, you know.
Speaker: It's a nice reminder, I think, when you go into your car.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Especially like, yep, I passed.
Speaker: I should really throw these away or get rid of them.
Speaker: Yeah, hopefully it's the last one you have to take.
Speaker: Knock on wood.
Speaker: Gosh, I hope so.
Speaker: I mean, I'm going to be surrendering.
Speaker: And that's the other thing is like Florida's MPJE was so hard.
Speaker: I got the license.
Speaker: Now I'm like, I don't have any plans to go back.
Speaker: And I'm like, ugh.
Speaker: How how much am I really not going to go back?
Speaker: Is it enough to say like the MPJ wasn't worth it?
Speaker: I'm done.
Speaker: Like, oh, that's a tough thing, I think, is I don't know if I could do it.
Speaker: I would have to really reevaluate if I would ever go back there.
Speaker: But that's a tough decision for sure.
Speaker: Are there any other superstitious things that you do?
Speaker: Those are the main things.
Speaker: Same shirt.
Speaker: Everything gets strewn about in the car.
Speaker: Oh, oh, no, there's one more thing.
Speaker: I can't believe I almost forgot it.
Speaker: I never, ever vocalize any sense of confidence whatsoever.
Speaker: Like I never I never say when I pass.
Speaker: I say if I pass.
Speaker: I never say like, oh yeah, I'm totally going to do well in this exam.
Speaker: I felt like I've studied enough.
Speaker: It is always a state of mind of, man, I'm not going to do well.
Speaker: I don't feel prepared.
Speaker: And then when I walk out of the exam, I always feel like I failed, which people will say that if you feel like you failed the exam, you likely passed.
Speaker: I felt like I failed every time, but I passed.
Speaker: So is there some truth to it?
Speaker: The exams, other than infectious disease topics in pharmacy school that I felt like I did great on, I did terrible.
Speaker: So
Speaker: I think it's a sense of like, oh, if you've got like a bunch of confidence, you feel like you're going to do well, then do you just stop preparing and have a false sense of confidence?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I feel like everybody's different, but for the law exam, walk out of there feeling like you failed it is what I'm saying.
Speaker: And you probably passed.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: And if you didn't, then guess what?
Speaker: You just retake it again, not the end of the world.
Speaker: And I think that's also a huge thing that we have to kind of talk about is that, yeah, if you don't pass, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker: You can retake it.
Speaker: Yes, it's
Speaker: extra money, but you still have those attempts.
Speaker: And yeah, any words of advice?
Speaker: I think the last thing we should end with this podcast is maybe like words of advice or helpful tips and tricks before you go.
Speaker: I think that definitely don't ruminate on any of the weird questions you saw in the MPJ.
Speaker: Even if you felt like you didn't study them, I think there's always going to be those trash questions.
Speaker: I think they add in a couple, like eight or so or 12.
Speaker: I can't remember the exact number.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: The ones that are like the experimental questions.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So like if you come across a question, you're like, what the heck?
Speaker: I've never seen this.
Speaker: It's probably a trash question and don't think too hard on it and, you know, move on to the next one.
Speaker: So I think that's probably my best advice and just don't overthink because the MPJE is so easy to overthink the questions and get them wrong.
Speaker: But if you just really look at it and look at the question itself and reread it a couple times –
Speaker: and slow down your process of thinking.
Speaker: And I would be very remiss if I didn't talk about how the MPJE, it is designed in a way to really test your confidence.
Speaker: And so don't be surprised if you do see multiple questions that are of a similar type.
Speaker: This test is really, it is designed to make sure you know the law, that when situated with that, with the case, you are going to do, one, you're going to follow the law,
Speaker: But two, also think about what's best for the patient.
Speaker: And so I can say like all the practice questions, practice tests I did, if whenever I had that mindset of like what's going to be best for the patient, but also not cost me my license, as long as I kept those two ideas in mind, I felt like I got questions.
Speaker: Even that I had no idea what the right answer was, if I kept those two principles in mind, I usually would get the question right even on a pure guess.
Speaker: Hopefully it works.
Speaker: I'm sure it will.
Speaker: I'm sure it will.
Speaker: Yeah, hopefully this episode is helpful in some sort of way.
Speaker: And I know we kind of touched upon it pretty quickly here, but we're just trying to get as much as we can down for you guys who are about to take it at least.
Speaker: And one more thing to touch on because you did bring it up and I feel like I should have talked about it more, but it is not the end of the world if you fail it.
Speaker: Plenty of people fail the law exam, especially when they have a residency.
Speaker: It is not the end of the world.
Speaker: The moment you find out that news, that is a conversation you need to go have with your RPD.
Speaker: Say, hey, here's what happened.
Speaker: That's, I mean, without getting too much into the weeds of it, that's something that, yes, let your RPD know or let your employer know if you're in that situation.
Speaker: It's not the end of the world.
Speaker: You can retake it.
Speaker: You can actually retake it pretty quickly.
Speaker: I think it's like 30, 60.
Speaker: It depends on the state.
Speaker: I think it's usually like 60 days or 30 days, but it's all dependent on the state.
Speaker: But it's not the end of the world.
Speaker: If people are going to fail a test, it's usually the MPJE over the NAPLEX because like we said, you get how many classes?
Speaker: Few classes on the law test and a bunch of content on the NAPLEX.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And not to mention that if you're going to a different state, it's going to be a completely different law class.
Speaker: So might as well just throw out what you know anyway.
Speaker: Not really, but take it with a grain of salt for sure.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I think that's all I have unless you've got something else to add.
Speaker: I think we can dive into peaks and troughs now.
Speaker: So yeah, you start with your peak.
Speaker: Or trough, I guess.
Speaker: No, I'll start with my peak.
Speaker: So you can kind of tell when we were recording this episode, but it was recently ID Pharmacist Day.
Speaker: And so what better way I got to celebrate ID Pharmacist Day than getting to run the stewardship service on my own?
Speaker: So, I mean, that was, it was a very high census, a lot of restricted antimicrobials.
Speaker: It was just me reviewing the whole list, working with the pharmacist within my health system and rounding with our ID provider.
Speaker: Like I was like, dang, I feel like an ID pharmacist today.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: It's nice to get that independence.
Speaker: It really helped with the imposter syndrome, which kind of goes into my trough of I'm really realizing one of the committees that I'm on within one of the organizations I'm with is
Speaker: being on a recognitions committee where you are scoring people for fellowship designation or like career awards as a trainee has done for the most part, just like really brought out some major, um,
Speaker: imposter syndrome, I would say like, oh my gosh, like, am I even like eligible to score you?
Speaker: But trainees have been on this committee before, but I don't know.
Speaker: It's just been really hard to look at it and go, dang, I want to do that.
Speaker: How do I get to that point?
Speaker: But everybody's definition of success is different.
Speaker: Everybody's career path is different.
Speaker: So
Speaker: like not trying to not compare myself to them is very very difficult i feel like this has been a good exercise but i've been on this committee for almost what three four years now and every time it comes time for one of those meetings i'm like everybody's talking and they have a lot of good contributions and i feel like i should just keep my mouth shut
Speaker: And my confidence plummets right now.
Speaker: I mean, we'll talk about it in a different episode, I think, as far as like mental health goes and different things that kind of can really make or break your career too, especially in pharmacy.
Speaker: But that's comparing yourself to others.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You're comparing yourself to – Probably the worst thing to do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we all do it.
Speaker: We all do.
Speaker: We're all guilty.
Speaker: And I think it's just – we're all high achievers in this –
Speaker: career field, especially in this clinical space too.
Speaker: And so it's, it makes it really hard and tough at certain points, but yeah, I agree.
Speaker: And I'm thanks for being transparent about it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, I feel like it's a good learning experience, but man, every time those committee meetings happen, it's, it's tough.
Speaker: And I, I'd be lying if I said, I don't have any imposter syndrome deciding if someone deserves fellowship or not.
Speaker: We'll come up with a solution to, to fight it.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: What about you?
Speaker: My peak is, so I've been working with two, three, actually three students, one pharmacy student and two undergrad students.
Speaker: And now that I'm kind of transitioning into this other role, I have more responsibilities.
Speaker: So I'm actually able to kind of be like this preceptor mentor to this pharmacy student.
Speaker: And she's actually been, yeah, she's been doing really well in the lab.
Speaker: And I just love like
Speaker: getting other pharmacy students excited about translational research.
Speaker: So it's exciting to see like her do well and me being able to teach her and the other students in general.
Speaker: So it's been pretty rewarding.
Speaker: I miss teaching others and it's great we have students back in the summer.
Speaker: And then my trough, I would have to say, so it kind of bounces off my peak, but since I've been mentoring this student, I realized that I had become one of the preceptors that I don't like.
Speaker: And it was, I think, around 1.
Speaker: And she's like, can I eat lunch?
Speaker: And I was like, oh my gosh, I totally forgot to give this poor girl lunch.
Speaker: I just wasn't thinking because I was just running around.
Speaker: And I was like, oh my goodness, I have become that preceptor where I was like, I need to eat.
Speaker: And so I was like, yes, definitely go take lunch.
Speaker: I'm so sorry.
Speaker: And so from that point on, I remember and remind her to take a lunch because when I was a student, I appreciated that.
Speaker: Well, I mean, the first step is, you know, recognizing that you're such a terrible preceptor, Callan, but it's okay.
Speaker: I made that exact same mistake today as well.
Speaker: And like my preceptor came over like, oh, yes, go to lunch now.
Speaker: It's like, oh, OK, well, I should have done that, but sorry.
Speaker: I think that wraps up our episode.
Speaker: I believe what we have next on our docket is diving into the NAPLEX.
Speaker: So we'll that'll be a lot of fun.
Speaker: I know we all have we have strong feelings about the MPJE, but I think the NAPLEX, we think much more of that long behemoth of an exam.
Speaker: And we're excited to give you our tips and tricks for that.
Speaker: Thanks for joining us and thanks for listening.
