Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Practical Knowledge for Personal Development, or PKPD for short, a pharmacy podcast where we explore the various ways to grow as a person and pharmacist by discussing common questions asked by pharmacy learners.
Speaker: Our ambition is to see our listeners achieve their personal and professional goals.
Speaker: This episode is the final part of our mini-series discussing the transition between stages of learning.
Speaker: In this episode, we'll specifically talk about transitioning from student or resident to an independent practitioner.
Speaker: So, Hunter, I know we've talked a lot on this podcast.
Speaker: Very excited for you to make that transition from a PGY2 resident to now a specialist in infectious diseases.
Speaker: So, you know, you're moving to a new place.
Speaker: You obviously need to make new friends and networks.
Speaker: How do you connect with peers and how are you kind of feeling making this move to a brand new place all over again?
Speaker: Well, I mean, first off, it's weird to think that, you know, I'm at that point.
Speaker: I remember being a student, it's like, all right, what do I have ahead of me to get to the point of being a independent infectious disease clinical specialist?
Speaker: And I didn't realize it was going to be like that two years was one going to take so long, but also fly by so fast.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: definitely thinking of like all the different stages of transitioning to this point.
Speaker: I think the, the opportunity to have that transition go clear to Florida and then clear up to Minnesota.
Speaker: It's like, all right, I get to do it all again.
Speaker: I've done it twice before.
Speaker: So it's not as intimidating and as, I don't want to say stressful because it's,
Speaker: I'm going into this with like, I've done this before.
Speaker: I'm more excited.
Speaker: And there's not like, I'm only going to be there for a year.
Speaker: I really get to have that mindset of like, this is where I want to establish my career.
Speaker: And as much as you hear people say, oh, your first job out of pharmacy school or residency isn't going to be your forever job.
Speaker: This may just be me not wanting to move across the country again and having to go through the moving process and licensing and all that, but no, I'm really excited to really get to start something and really see it grow because when you're a resident or even when you're a student,
Speaker: there's just so much you think of the future and you're like, I don't entirely know.
Speaker: I know somehow I'll get to this point, but I don't know where things are going to go.
Speaker: And that uncertainty can be unraveling for people.
Speaker: So I think starting with that, like finding your friends, finding your network.
Speaker: I'm very fortunate.
Speaker: Whenever I found out where I was going and I tweeted, I,
Speaker: hey, I'm going to be an ID pharmacist in this city.
Speaker: Twitter essentially showed me my network and the people who are ID pharmacists in that area were like, oh, cool.
Speaker: Looking forward to collaborating with you.
Speaker: We can't wait to work with you.
Speaker: It's like, oh, wow.
Speaker: I didn't even have to do some
Speaker: extra committee stuff or go to some conference or something to find these people like they showed up so it was it was really awesome to see that so again if you're not on pharmacy twitter there's there are more reasons that are it is beneficial as opposed to that it's just more work so definitely consider it and jump on if you're not already you're obviously very uh popular on twitter rx so
Speaker: It's good to see the benefits of joining TwitterRx, and I'm glad you got to find that network.
Speaker: Did you know anyone moving to this new area?
Speaker: Did you know anyone at all, or you just went into it blind?
Speaker: Oh, totally.
Speaker: blind blind totally blind i did not know anyone going to st louis i was very much of the mindset of like this is where the job is this is exactly what i want to do uh well i'm sure i'll meet new people and so seeing those people made me much less stressed of oh gosh i don't know anybody it's i get to do this all over again but but yeah it was really awesome too uh you know for anyone that's
Speaker: they've matched and they are going somewhere and they don't know people yet, or even students that are going somewhere else for a career that's outside of where they're, they're from.
Speaker: It blows my mind how your, your classmates may wind up in the same places as you're at.
Speaker: So of course no one, no one followed me going like Kansas to Florida to Minnesota to St.
Speaker: Louis, but one of my classmates from Texas,
Speaker: Well, yeah, one of my classmates from the main campus, I found out the other day that she'll be working at one of the nearby hospitals.
Speaker: So it's like, oh my gosh, hey, well, now I know I've got one of my classmates here.
Speaker: So I'm looking forward to getting to...
Speaker: you know, have friends in the area, especially having classmates that you already have that relationship or that connection with.
Speaker: I'm hopeful and excited that that might happen.
Speaker: So Callan, what about you with your in the middle of the year switch?
Speaker: You went through a very stressful situation and then all of a sudden started a new career path.
Speaker: So what did you find successful and helpful in you finding your new network and new friends in a completely different area?
Speaker: It's definitely tough.
Speaker: And just like you, I think
Speaker: that initial move is going to be the toughest one when you move to a whole new area.
Speaker: But it gets a little bit easier after that.
Speaker: So I think this is like maybe my third move or so.
Speaker: So it's definitely stressful, but it's not as stressful, I think, as the first move.
Speaker: But what helped me was having a really close network and group of coworkers.
Speaker: I think we all get along very well.
Speaker: We all complement each other very well.
Speaker: And
Speaker: My boss does a really good job at making sure we work as a team, but we're able to do group outings.
Speaker: We're able to get close with one another.
Speaker: We're able to get close with their fiancés, their husbands, wives.
Speaker: We all do group activities here and there.
Speaker: So that has helped a lot.
Speaker: And not only that, I think they're friends too.
Speaker: Mutual friends has also helped.
Speaker: We're getting invited to all these things.
Speaker: So really making friends with my coworkers has helped a lot.
Speaker: So I recommend
Speaker: even if you're going into a PGY2, obviously, or PGY1, make friends with your co-residents, but also make friends with your co-workers because you're going to probably be around them for a while.
Speaker: And it's just nice to kind of have those people around.
Speaker: So I found that to be really helpful.
Speaker: And you never know who they know.
Speaker: And it just kind of branches off from there.
Speaker: And you just sort of meet friends here and there.
Speaker: So I would say that's probably my biggest advice.
Speaker: And then also, I just sort of reached out to friends in the PhD program, other students, and we sort of connected from there too.
Speaker: So
Speaker: Just kind of going out of your comfort zone and be like, hey, I'm new.
Speaker: What are you up to?
Speaker: There's a lot of Facebook groups.
Speaker: I know there is a really fun Facebook group in Detroit that a lot of young people in their 20s and 30s really, they all join.
Speaker: And so there's a lot of different outings people post and they're really willing to get to know you.
Speaker: And this is not even pharmacy related.
Speaker: So I would recommend maybe going on Facebook too and trying to join a group or
Speaker: a co-ed soccer team or anything that you might be interested in.
Speaker: That's a great suggestion, especially with the coworker aspect.
Speaker: Like when I was, I remember going through my training in my PGY1 program and just, you know, talking with your coworkers about what they're interested in.
Speaker: And you'd be surprised, maybe you might find some commonalities with them.
Speaker: I had done a brief, brief, brief stint of doing rock climbing for a bit when I was in middle school.
Speaker: And I was like, man, if I ever get that opportunity again, I want to go for it.
Speaker: And there was one of the people that were teaching me how to do the IV room.
Speaker: He just loved not only World War II and like American history, but he also really loved rock climbing.
Speaker: And I swear, if I could have taken that opportunity of like, hey, dude, I want to go.
Speaker: Will you like...
Speaker: help me like walk me through what kind of entry level equipment I need and all that stuff.
Speaker: And I could have absolutely been on like a hiking trip or hiking and climbing and all that kind of trip.
Speaker: Two months into residency, I just quickly found out I didn't have as much free time as I thought I was going to have as a resident.
Speaker: But yeah, don't think it's just your residence.
Speaker: Your co-residents, fantastic.
Speaker: Like that's going to be the people you commiserate and go through that stressful experience the most.
Speaker: But yeah, your preceptors and
Speaker: even people who aren't your preceptors, but are still a part of your learning experience.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Yeah, they'll be huge and you can have those as friends as well.
Speaker: And especially, you know, as you're transitioning into your first job, you won't be in that like residency mindset or student mindset.
Speaker: You are a pharmacist now.
Speaker: You are an independent pharmacist.
Speaker: And a lot of times one of the like if I if I recall right, one of the main reasons why pharmacists will leave a job is they don't have that connection with their with their co-workers.
Speaker: They don't have that connection.
Speaker: that want to show up to work.
Speaker: I can recall all of the times that I loved my job and it was because the people that I worked with made me want to stay there.
Speaker: And the times when I wanted to leave was there was no one I wanted to be around because it was such a bad atmosphere and bad environment.
Speaker: I totally agree.
Speaker: I think having that good network and really having that supportive network is super important, especially if you're going to be working there long-term.
Speaker: So I definitely agree with that.
Speaker: Now you mentioned, you know,
Speaker: Now, you mentioned individual practitioner.
Speaker: So obviously, you're getting a new job, which means more money, more time.
Speaker: How are you kind of handling all of this?
Speaker: Are there any resources you're using to might help save money in this process or invest or anything that you might do differently now that you have different time needs?
Speaker: Uh, yeah, that is, I'm so glad you bring that up because that is something I feel like I'm battling with daily.
Speaker: It's like, all right, once I'm not a resident anymore, what is my lifestyle going to look like afterwards?
Speaker: Your free time changes.
Speaker: And, and this even applies to students going into their first jobs.
Speaker: Like you're not having to study for seven different exams every week.
Speaker: You're not having to have like one screen open on like pharmacology for cardiac stuff.
Speaker: And then another screen open for the PK, um,
Speaker: of like different like how to dose vancomycin and amino glycosides and you're not having to draft the agenda for your for your committee meeting and like you don't have that anymore unless you're continuing on with that stuff afterwards but most people are not are smart and they don't try and sustain five or six different professional organizations post school let alone post residency
Speaker: So, I mean, for me, like I've really enjoyed my professional involvement.
Speaker: I've enjoyed the extracurricular stuff I've done.
Speaker: I've really enjoyed these like even paid opportunities to really, you know, diversify my skillset.
Speaker: But I'm trying to figure out, okay, how do I balance going from resident to independent pharmacist and not burn out?
Speaker: Because if you weren't burnt out in residency, ask any pharmacist that's fresh out of residency and
Speaker: that tried to continue that residency work grind set mindset, they got burnt out very, very fast.
Speaker: And that was one thing I asked at a conference I was at recently was, you know, how do I not become that?
Speaker: And I'll be honest, I did not like the answers I was getting.
Speaker: It was a, you'll just burn out and then learn.
Speaker: I was like, no, that's not the way it should be.
Speaker: That's absolutely not.
Speaker: So that was actually, I had that conversation with my, you know, upcoming boss.
Speaker: It's like, hey, you know what?
Speaker: These are the things that I want to do post residency.
Speaker: These are the things that I want to do on top of my new job.
Speaker: What are your thoughts?
Speaker: And she's fantastic.
Speaker: She was like, I'll be honest, you should just wait a year in this new role before you choose to take on any new stuff.
Speaker: Really get an idea of what is your new workload going to look like before you try to start adding on new stuff.
Speaker: And I mean, one of my things.
Speaker: Did you take that advice?
Speaker: I'm working on it.
Speaker: I,
Speaker: I was going to say, I'm like, hmm, so what are you actually doing?
Speaker: How many clubs, organizations, meetings are you planning on going to now that you have a new job?
Speaker: So that's a key.
Speaker: That's what I'm looking for.
Speaker: I have a meeting scheduled with her, so we'll talk through that more.
Speaker: But one of the big things that I'm really focusing on is if I'm going to take – and I've really been trying to follow this ever since, especially PGY2 started –
Speaker: You have X amount of time every day.
Speaker: Every time you say yes, I'd love to participate in that.
Speaker: That time comes from somewhere.
Speaker: Whether it comes from your sleep, whether that comes from free time.
Speaker: When I say free time, I mean like leisure time.
Speaker: Like for me, like I really value getting to spend time playing a video game with my friend group at least every week.
Speaker: When I notice that time's getting threatened by something that I've said I want to do, I know that's like, okay, hold on.
Speaker: I need to take a step back.
Speaker: Do I really have the time for this?
Speaker: Is this ambitious hunter or is this realistic hunter?
Speaker: Yeah, and I catch myself doing that too.
Speaker: Obviously, as you know, there's so much going on in my life, but-
Speaker: I think I also have to work on that.
Speaker: That's something that I need to do and really take a step back and be like, you know, am I able to feasibly do this?
Speaker: Is my time getting, you know, is my time getting, is it beneficial for me to do this?
Speaker: Is it cutting into my actual social lifetime, my work-life balance?
Speaker: How is that affecting me?
Speaker: And I think I need to take a step back and definitely think about those things because I realize, yeah, if I'm saying yes to this, it's going to entail me staying at work longer.
Speaker: And that's going to take out some time hanging out with my friends.
Speaker: So definitely something to think about.
Speaker: And I think it's good to take that step back after PGY1, even PGY2, or even as a student, APPE student.
Speaker: I know I was really tired after APPE's.
Speaker: I was like, oh my gosh, now I have to go in residency.
Speaker: But definitely take that time and really focus on what you need to do.
Speaker: And I think it's a really good point that your boss brought up.
Speaker: Figure out that work-life balance first and then say yes to those things and be like, you know, I can sort of handle, keep adding on those things.
Speaker: But I agree.
Speaker: That's really good advice though.
Speaker: Yeah, I didn't really realize how much I was doing until I forced myself to write out everything I wanted to do.
Speaker: Pretty quickly, I was like, I can't do this.
Speaker: I'm sure I could figure out a way to do this.
Speaker: It was humbling for me to realize, no, I can't do all this, especially not within the time period that I'm hoping for.
Speaker: My wife rolls her eyes every time I say, yeah, I'm thinking of getting my master's in health administration over the next year.
Speaker: And I see that response of like,
Speaker: All right, maybe in a few years I'll readdress that.
Speaker: Maybe I'm not going to get to do that right away unless I identify other things that I view as more important.
Speaker: And I think this is why, you know, probably unpopular opinion, but I think economics should be taught a whole lot more, especially within the pharmacy program, but not so much pharmacy management, but more of just like a basic understanding of economics because I think opportunity cost is like one of the most important concepts someone can understand.
Speaker: It's like, if I'm going to do this, what is the cost of this?
Speaker: You can't have both.
Speaker: What is it going to cost if I do this?
Speaker: And I mean, that's something I remember learning in like elementary school, but it was, I don't understand why it just stuck to me so much.
Speaker: I was like, Hunter can't have both.
Speaker: Hunter has to choose between this or this.
Speaker: And oftentimes when you ask people who don't really have a solid understanding of just like basic, basic economics, and you say opportunity cost, like I want both.
Speaker: Like no, you can't.
Speaker: In this hypothetical, you only get to choose one.
Speaker: Which one do you choose and why?
Speaker: And so when you start putting out all the things you want to do out on the plate in front of you, you realize really quickly like that concept applies far more than just money.
Speaker: It's very applicable to time, especially when you put into respect, like put in perspective, how much time do you have to put towards things and how much time do you need for those things to matter?
Speaker: I know some of the committees that I'm on, it's like, man, three hours spent on this committee, I really could have made a bigger impact for one hour spent on this committee.
Speaker: And that comes with experience.
Speaker: You figure out like, where am I gonna get the biggest bang for my buck with the time that I spend?
Speaker: But yeah, I could talk about opportunity costs and time all day.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I'm thinking back to my economics class right now.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember that.
Speaker: Yeah, totally.
Speaker: But yeah, I mean, it's sort of like the law of supply and demand, sort of same thing.
Speaker: And I think you can kind of think about it as almost a metaphor to burning out too.
Speaker: It's like, how much can you really take before it can fluctuate?
Speaker: So if you're taking some sort of resource from one area, it's going to affect the other area.
Speaker: So definitely something to kind of keep in mind.
Speaker: But I agree with that.
Speaker: It definitely needs to be taught a lot more in pharmacy school.
Speaker: We don't do a good job at that, I think.
Speaker: That and law of diminishing returns.
Speaker: That is my favorite economics topic that I don't think we've talked about it in this podcast yet.
Speaker: If I have someone, please tell me that.
Speaker: We have it.
Speaker: We have it.
Speaker: It needs a graph.
Speaker: But if you're listening right now and you're at a computer where you can type this in,
Speaker: Law of diminishing returns is essentially how I apply it, especially for pharmacy learners that I'm talking with is at some point, the more you, the more time and effort you put into something, the less and less bang for your buck.
Speaker: I like to use that phrase a lot.
Speaker: that you get on it.
Speaker: Your investment on your return becomes less and less as you put more time into it.
Speaker: So if six hours of effort gets you 90% of the quality you want of a project, does seven hours put you at 95%?
Speaker: Does 10 hours get you at 99%?
Speaker: With those extra hours, what could you do with that?
Speaker: And what's that percent difference looking like too?
Speaker: If you put in that extra hour, is it going to go from 90 to 100 or is it just going to go from 90 to 90.2%?
Speaker: then it's not really worth it.
Speaker: So I think you have to kind of think about it too from a statistical standpoint.
Speaker: Sorry, I have to put my research brain in here, you know, raising my hand.
Speaker: But yeah, I agree.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I think the best example is that person that makes that fantastic presentation.
Speaker: Slides are immaculate, not a single error.
Speaker: It is just so well created.
Speaker: But how many nights of sleep did it cost for them to make that?
Speaker: And what projects are they now behind?
Speaker: Whereas their peers may have had, OK, grand rounds, OK, presentations.
Speaker: It got the point across.
Speaker: People liked it.
Speaker: But it wasn't like, wow, this person is known for their presentations.
Speaker: When I see that, the first thing I think of is like, okay, is this their standard for everything else?
Speaker: Like, is this their quality for everything?
Speaker: Like, what did it cost for them to make this?
Speaker: Because like, this is a phenomenal presentation.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: But what did this cost them?
Speaker: What did they chose this was more important over something else?
Speaker: I also see that too.
Speaker: And I wonder, I think it's a good lesson when you start out.
Speaker: in a new job, you're going to learn this lesson too.
Speaker: You start to put your resources and time into certain things and you realize, hey, how do I adequately put it into somewhere else to sort of make it at equilibrium?
Speaker: So it's definitely, I think, a learning lesson that we all will go through.
Speaker: It's just a matter of when will we go through it.
Speaker: But yeah, especially thinking of one of the things I was just thinking of is how is this law of diminishing returns going to apply for performance evaluations?
Speaker: I feel like I hear about this all the time of people saying, you know what, I'm not going to put as much effort into it because I put so much extra effort to go from meeting standard to exemplary standard.
Speaker: just to be told like, oh, I can only hand out exemplaries or highest performer to so many people.
Speaker: As an employee, that's really depressing.
Speaker: It's like, well, then why did I put all that effort in?
Speaker: I could have put that effort in elsewhere or other areas.
Speaker: So, I mean, that's going to be a conversation I have with my employer of like, you know what?
Speaker: What do I need to do so I know clearly communicated I need to do to get this?
Speaker: Because just going blindly, like, I'm just going to be the best thing ever.
Speaker: That's just asking for a recipe for easy burnout.
Speaker: And this might be a tough question to ask, but are there any boundaries that you sort of set with yourself, with maybe your partner, and then also with your boss?
Speaker: before you're starting this new job?
Speaker: Is there anything where you're like, okay, this is not compromisable for me and I'm not going to do this?
Speaker: Or did you kind of talk to your boss first?
Speaker: Is there anything that kind of sticks out to you?
Speaker: That, so I've not had those conversations yet with my, with my new boss yet.
Speaker: And that's really just because I don't know what the workload fully is going to look like because I've not been in that yet.
Speaker: I'm very, very fortunate that, you know, my upcoming job, there's no weekends.
Speaker: There's it's salaried position.
Speaker: So I can't say it's like it's going to be nine to five and I'm going to be like unavailable at 501.
Speaker: I'm still trying to figure out what those boundaries are.
Speaker: But at the conference that, you know, you and I just came back from, one of the big things they talked about was it is important to set those boundaries.
Speaker: If you respond to a text at 830 in the evening for something that easily could have been handled the next morning, you've now told everyone that.
Speaker: you can be reached after hours.
Speaker: I know you're laughing like, I know I totally do that.
Speaker: But you know, but you know, I'm guilty.
Speaker: I'm guilty.
Speaker: But you know, I do the same thing.
Speaker: But that's just because, you know, it's been the expectation of where we currently are at.
Speaker: And it's very, very hard to set those boundaries once you've already crossed them.
Speaker: So that's something I'm being very cognizant of going into my new role of like, look, I'm going to be super happy to support and help everyone that I can to the best of my ability.
Speaker: But
Speaker: I'm not a resident anymore.
Speaker: I will have boundaries.
Speaker: That's that's great.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: It's so important to obviously set those boundaries.
Speaker: And I love what you what you had to say so far.
Speaker: I had a couple friends bouncing off the work-life balance and setting boundaries.
Speaker: What I found that – I guess what they found was helpful was that they didn't have their emails on their phone.
Speaker: Like they didn't even have the app.
Speaker: And I was like, how do you do that?
Speaker: I was so confused.
Speaker: I'm like, you don't have the app?
Speaker: The email app?
Speaker: Like get out of here.
Speaker: You know, this is crazy to me.
Speaker: So they're like, yeah, I just don't – when I check my phone after I get out of work, I don't want to have to see emails.
Speaker: I don't want it to be dinging me.
Speaker: They also turn off their ringers after a certain time.
Speaker: which I totally respect and I wish I had that willpower and I think that's something that I have to work on for sure.
Speaker: And if I can delete that app, that will be a very big feat for me.
Speaker: But there are little things you can do kind of like that, that really helps set those boundaries.
Speaker: Don't answer your call after eight or nine or 10, if you don't need to, if you're not on call or something.
Speaker: But there's certain boundaries you can definitely draw.
Speaker: I love that idea.
Speaker: Like, I know I had the same response of like, you can remove your email app from your phone.
Speaker: Like, I just can't, I can't do that right now.
Speaker: The idea of doing that just is, and that just shows like how bad we are at setting our boundaries right now as trainees, which can I promise myself that it's going to be better when I'm done being a trainee?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: uh but i'm gonna try we're gonna work on it we're gonna work on it it's actually this is a really really good time to talk about this but my institution just well where i'm currently as a trainee they just rolled out epic chat so within the ehr you can pretty much direct message people and like you could have it on their phone you know the first things i was telling the other residents to make sure they know how to do
Speaker: Epic chat?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Do you know one of the first things that I was telling them to do, like something to set up?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Is when to mark yourself unavailable.
Speaker: Yeah, because you do not want to be because, you know, especially like if you're logged into Epic later in the evening, or if you're like me and you have it on your phone.
Speaker: If you're logged into your phone, it's going to show that you're available.
Speaker: You will get messages at eight o'clock at night from someone who's like, oh, I saw this name tied to this patient.
Speaker: I can ask them about this.
Speaker: Maybe they'll answer.
Speaker: And then as a trainee, you feel compelled.
Speaker: You want to help.
Speaker: You want to answer that question.
Speaker: Like, no, you go on there.
Speaker: You make yourself available until a certain time.
Speaker: Now you decide that time based off of whatever, but make it to where you are unavailable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Take it from somebody who's been there, done that.
Speaker: I love that advice.
Speaker: And it's great kind of hearing.
Speaker: I wonder what we would do now if we were looking back and or if we were younger selves and we're listening to this podcast, I would have loved to hear this from somebody because it's you don't hear that often.
Speaker: So it's nice to hear from people who are, you know, are almost done with your program.
Speaker: I'm not, but.
Speaker: People like you, so it's good to hear that you're setting those boundaries and you've learned and it takes time and we're still working on it.
Speaker: So I think it's better.
Speaker: I can remember so many times walking from my car.
Speaker: Like I had signed out, I'm done with my shift, but because I had it turned on on my phone as I'm walking to my car,
Speaker: Get a question.
Speaker: Hey, I have a question about this, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: So, of course, I'm messaging, typing that on my way back to the car.
Speaker: Realize, like, ah, you know what?
Speaker: I could really do this better if I, like, log into the computer.
Speaker: And so I go to my office, look at the patient, give more information.
Speaker: It's like, they could have done it.
Speaker: Like, I was ready to go home.
Speaker: It was 730 on a weeknight, like, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So like, of course, whenever I hear Epic chats rolling out, it's like, I got to teach the residents how to set their boundaries.
Speaker: So they're not getting messaged at eight o'clock at night when they should be at home away.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Love that.
Speaker: Love that.
Speaker: Love that.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So going on to shedding of responsibilities before new responsibilities, what are you sort of anticipating?
Speaker: So I've heard from a lot of people who have made that switch from PGY2 resident or even resident to
Speaker: a new job, independent practitioner, you're obviously not going to have those PowerPoints, those deadlines from academic to do.
Speaker: But is there anything that you're kind of excited for or any new responsibilities that you might have to take on at this new role?
Speaker: I think what I'm most excited for, and this is going to be different based off of what type of job you go into.
Speaker: Mine has a bit of an administrative component to it.
Speaker: So I'll still have committees.
Speaker: I'll still have meetings.
Speaker: But yeah,
Speaker: and I don't want to say I'm in charge, but I really get to choose the outcome of it.
Speaker: Like, it's not someone saying, you need to be on this committee.
Speaker: Although, you know, part of my job, yes, I need to be on, like, the Blood Culture Stewardship Committee, the Antimicrobial Stewardship Committee.
Speaker: But these are roles that, like...
Speaker: Yeah, I'm calling the shots for myself.
Speaker: Like, I am the ID pharmacist for that.
Speaker: Whereas some of the committees I was told, like, oh, yeah, all the residents have to be on it.
Speaker: It's like, okay, I don't know what value this is adding, but I don't have the option to say, I just want to leave this committee.
Speaker: I don't think it's very helpful.
Speaker: That being said, I can still, you know, advocate and say, hey, you know what?
Speaker: I didn't find this experience very helpful.
Speaker: It was very, it was, in a way, wasted time for me.
Speaker: Consider for the residents next year that they don't have to do this.
Speaker: Next year, whenever I'm not a resident anymore, I can say, no, this is a waste of time right now.
Speaker: I would think it's, I mean, I have to think of a very nice way of saying that as opposed to like, I don't know why I'm on your stupid committee.
Speaker: Get me off of it.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I think
Speaker: The hard thing being a resident too is you don't have that opportunity to say no.
Speaker: You kind of have to just do it.
Speaker: So now that you have a new job, you're able to pick and choose what you're doing with your time.
Speaker: So that's really exciting.
Speaker: And I'm glad you get to do that.
Speaker: And you get to kind of say, hey, you know what?
Speaker: I'm not going to join this committee.
Speaker: I think it's not beneficial to me at this time.
Speaker: And I'm going to do something else.
Speaker: So I think that's great.
Speaker: And –
Speaker: I wish there was more, we could change a little bit more as a resident, but we're just not at that point yet, but hopefully in the future we might be able to.
Speaker: So I agree.
Speaker: That's a good point.
Speaker: And especially like with students that are in like all of those different organizations, I'll say like looking at enough applicant criteria for just like helping decide who gets an interview or not.
Speaker: Y'all are doing way too many committees like focus on quality as opposed to quantity like you don't need to be at six different meetings or six different organizations for their meetings like just do an exact position for one and be involved with it like.
Speaker: it is so much more important for quality over quantity.
Speaker: Like, yes, I know for sure in my future or in my new role, there's going to be committees and stuff I have to do that it's not the most exciting, but even just my face being there is going to be important because I am representing stewardship and ID and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: But for ones where it's like, I don't know what the value is here at all and my...
Speaker: And if my leadership can't tell me why I should be there at all, I'm definitely going to be advocating for, hey, you know what?
Speaker: I could use this hour to like build a whole new protocol or something.
Speaker: As a student, whenever you have all those different organizations, you just feel compelled.
Speaker: I just have to keep doing, doing, doing.
Speaker: Or as a resident, like you're a part of all these things.
Speaker: It's like, I'm just told I have to do this.
Speaker: I don't really have a say in it.
Speaker: Like it's, it can be overwhelming.
Speaker: So it's, I'm glad I get to be at that point of like,
Speaker: Not important, not important.
Speaker: Not going to do this.
Speaker: You have that luxury.
Speaker: Oh yeah, that must be nice.
Speaker: So another, I think our last topic we'll sort of discuss is licensing.
Speaker: So you're going to a whole nother state.
Speaker: And how is that going?
Speaker: You have to study, I'm assuming, for another MPJE test.
Speaker: And how are you transferring all those things?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker: That's, you know, I have at this current moment, I have four licenses.
Speaker: I have my home state because I was like, oh, might as well.
Speaker: I went to school in Kansas.
Speaker: I had law classes there.
Speaker: Might as well knock that out while I was there.
Speaker: When I was in Florida, obviously had to get licensed for PGY-1 there.
Speaker: Had to get licensed in Minnesota to do PGY-2 there.
Speaker: And obviously I had to get a Missouri license to start my new job.
Speaker: And so just yesterday, I got the email saying, all right, it's time to renew for Kansas.
Speaker: And I'm like, do I even need this?
Speaker: And I really had to ask myself, like,
Speaker: do I ever see myself going back to Kansas?
Speaker: Probably not.
Speaker: It's more of a, I want that license accessible in the event I have to go back home for an emergency and I need to take care of family or something.
Speaker: And I want to be able to work.
Speaker: Like I, like even thinking of myself right now, if I had a family emergency and I needed to move back to Kansas, the last thing I want to do is get a, go take another MPJE or go through the whole licensing process.
Speaker: Like I just want to be able to get back as soon as I can.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a good, that's a really great point.
Speaker: Are you going to keep your licenses in the other states like Minnesota and Florida?
Speaker: Are you going to say no to those?
Speaker: I will throw away my Florida and throw away my Minnesota one.
Speaker: I don't think my wife and I have any plans of going back there.
Speaker: It's, you know, as much as I have loved those areas and getting to practice pharmacy in those states, I'm
Speaker: I, the, the cost of all those licenses, it's expensive.
Speaker: I think for Florida was almost $300 for every two years.
Speaker: That's a lot of money to not do anything with.
Speaker: So unless my employer says, Hey, can you get licensed in this other, in this state?
Speaker: I'm not going to get licensed.
Speaker: I'm not like, yeah, we'll get rid of those two licenses, especially because some states have very strict requirements.
Speaker: Like Florida is like a third of your CE you need to do.
Speaker: You need to go through our broker.
Speaker: Whereas Kansas is like, just report some CE to, to your CE monitor in your set.
Speaker: And I forgot about the CEs.
Speaker: I'm not that I forgot, but yeah, you have to keep up with all those CEs and four different states.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: That's a whole nother job.
Speaker: I feel like on top of what you're doing.
Speaker: So
Speaker: Oh my gosh, kudos to you.
Speaker: Yeah, I actually have a folder.
Speaker: I have a folder called license management and it's a quick link to the page where it shows the requirements.
Speaker: And I named that link when that license expires.
Speaker: So it's more of a, if I change my mind, this is how long I have to make a decision.
Speaker: And then this is a question that I've...
Speaker: I don't think it's well answered.
Speaker: It comes up on Twitter every now and then.
Speaker: I've asked my preceptors and RPDs about this, and I'm still trying to get the best answer is this whole, you know, when you get your license, you'll have like where you, we use the terminology like primary and then reciprocated licenses.
Speaker: So like when I took my NAPLEX, I took it in Kansas, but I score transferred it to Florida.
Speaker: So I have a license in Kansas.
Speaker: So whenever I've got my license in Minnesota, I reciprocated my Kansas license to Minnesota.
Speaker: When I got my Missouri license, I reciprocated my Kansas to my Missouri.
Speaker: A while ago, it seemed like you had to maintain your primary license, but some of the laws in the different states have said like, hey, you don't need to keep your primary license anymore that you reciprocated from.
Speaker: You can just hold this.
Speaker: From what I've been told, every time I ask is you should really check with the state you're going to, what their laws are, because like some places are like, you can't reciprocate from a reciprocated license.
Speaker: So like, am I paying these renewal fees for Kansas?
Speaker: For no reason.
Speaker: I mean, if I was holding it for just because a primary license, I probably am wasting money, but I also have the other reason of like, I have family there.
Speaker: If I need to go back for any, any reason that barrier is not there.
Speaker: Is it an expensive thing to do?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But that peace of mind of like, yes, I can go back because of an emergency it's managed.
Speaker: Or if my current role expands to hospitals in Kansas and I can be like, Hey, lucky you.
Speaker: I already got one.
Speaker: Especially if someone is going through that same process with the primary and different license, all that fun stuff, I'm sure we all can relate to.
Speaker: So exciting, exciting.
Speaker: And then you did, and you said MPJE.
Speaker: Do you miss having to take an MPJE?
Speaker: Oh my gosh, no.
Speaker: I actually kind of like the law portion better than the actual math was, but I'm a little different.
Speaker: So I'm biased.
Speaker: Yeah, you are.
Speaker: No one's ever told me they liked the MPJ over the Netflix.
Speaker: It's so different, the way you think about the two different exams.
Speaker: I just found the MPJ was just very different, I think, in general.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Well, darn, miss working on a PhD who will never take a law exam again.
Speaker: You can always take mine if you would like.
Speaker: I don't think I want to.
Speaker: I'll go do my PhD.
Speaker: Maybe do another one and then I'll take a long one.
Speaker: But, oh my goodness.
Speaker: All right, you heard it.
Speaker: Callan said she'd rather do a PhD than another MPJE.
Speaker: Wait, just kidding.
Speaker: Hold on.
Speaker: How long is that going to take?
Speaker: Another 10 years?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What's it going to be at this point?
Speaker: Another 20?
Speaker: Doesn't matter.
Speaker: What is time?
Speaker: It's just a social construct.
Speaker: Just kidding.
Speaker: So anyways, I'll cut that out.
Speaker: No, no, no, leave it.
Speaker: No, it's great.
Speaker: So I think that's a good, I think we had a good episode so far.
Speaker: And do you want to kind of dive into our trots and peaks?
Speaker: Do you think this is a good time to?
Speaker: Ooh, yeah.
Speaker: Good, good time to segue over.
Speaker: Let's start with peak.
Speaker: Because I had a great peak today and it wasn't so much my peak, but more of my learner's peak.
Speaker: So my rotation right now, I'm running the stewardship service.
Speaker: So I'm on my third rotation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So how am I program without going too much in depth?
Speaker: I'm on my kind of like capstone rotation.
Speaker: So I've had this rotation three times now.
Speaker: I'm really running the service.
Speaker: So I have a PGY1 that is with me.
Speaker: And so I'm in a way like her primary preceptor.
Speaker: Well, today we actually, I should back up a little bit.
Speaker: Yesterday, we rounded on a patient for our antimicrobial stewardship program, posted the note and the providers like completely ignored our recommendations, which is very disheartening because we put a lot of effort into reviewing those patients, making those recommendations.
Speaker: So to just put a note in the chart, page the provider, and they don't even give you the decency to respond was disheartening.
Speaker: So, and this is a specifically a difficult population to, or a difficult provider group that they're just not, haven't been very receptive to.
Speaker: I know you're looking at that face.
Speaker: I'm not going to bad mouth a specialty.
Speaker: I'm not saying, but am I inferring what you're thinking?
Speaker: You are likely inferring correctly.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But it's a very challenging group to engage in antimicrobial stewardship.
Speaker: Any stewardship pharmacist would agree.
Speaker: And so was I surprised that our note being posted and, you know, this PGY1 paging them, not getting a response that we got left on read, essentially not surprised.
Speaker: So today, you know, we tried again.
Speaker: We tried to get a hold of them.
Speaker: We tried to, you know, convey those recs again.
Speaker: And this is where, you know, having that preceptor still there supporting me is like, you ever just page them your number?
Speaker: Like, don't even page them the recommendation.
Speaker: Just page them your phone number because they are supposed to have the decency within 15 minutes of your page respond to you.
Speaker: She paged, so my PGY1 learner pages this team and very quickly they get that, like they call back.
Speaker: My PGY1's like, oh my gosh, they're calling back.
Speaker: She delivers her recommendation and they're like,
Speaker: And I was just I was so impressed, like she was bold, she held to her recommendation.
Speaker: She was like, if we're going to use antibiotics this broad, we're going to have evidence to support it.
Speaker: And I was just like sitting here like, oh, such a proud preceptor, you've got this.
Speaker: And she gives her recommendation.
Speaker: And she looks at me like she's the residents going to take it back to their attending.
Speaker: Mike, of course, that's like a very nice way of saying like, we're just going to ignore you.
Speaker: She goes to give her presentation today and that phone rings and this, but they call back and my learner is like literally giving her presentation.
Speaker: I'm like, I'm not gonna go like interrupt her right now.
Speaker: So I picked it up and they had said, I discussed it with my attending.
Speaker: We agree with taking your recommendations.
Speaker: We'll do that.
Speaker: I was like, I'm like sitting there like, I didn't expect to get this far.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: And so I got to run over to my PJ1 learner.
Speaker: I was like, they accepted it.
Speaker: They took your recommendation.
Speaker: And she was like, do I pass?
Speaker: I was like, you get a gold star.
Speaker: You passed stewardship.
Speaker: You delivered a recommendation that got accepted to the most difficult person.
Speaker: to the most difficult to engage group here.
Speaker: So getting to see that learner feel like, oh my gosh, I did what is oftentimes considered the impossible.
Speaker: Just like see them have that, like, I did it.
Speaker: I made my preceptor proud.
Speaker: Like, oh, it was awesome.
Speaker: So it was a very, very good peek to me.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: I love hearing those stories.
Speaker: It's so great.
Speaker: I had something similar to that happened when I was an APPE student, actually, but I remember it was like the best feeling.
Speaker: I was like, yes, they took my recommendation.
Speaker: So it's a lot of hard work, but it's worth it.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: My peak, as you know, I've been in the process of moving.
Speaker: So I just moved into my new place.
Speaker: Super excited about it.
Speaker: And my peak, which I'm very proud of myself, is building my bed and moving everything and
Speaker: I didn't think I could do it, but I put my research, my translational research skills to use, good use.
Speaker: I just followed the instructions were like my SOPs.
Speaker: And it worked out very well.
Speaker: And now I have a bed I can sleep on.
Speaker: So I would say that's my peak.
Speaker: I'm able to now have a place to sleep.
Speaker: I remember seeing your Instagram post.
Speaker: I was like, oh, this is going to be entertaining.
Speaker: It's either going to go very well or- Very not well.
Speaker: You're going to hire someone off like TaskRabbit to come do it for you.
Speaker: And then something is going to turn into another thing.
Speaker: And it's just like, wow, okay, here we are.
Speaker: And how did we land up in this situation?
Speaker: But it didn't.
Speaker: It actually all worked out very well.
Speaker: So happy about it.
Speaker: And-
Speaker: Yeah, moving forward, I'm just excited for this next stage in my life.
Speaker: So yeah, pretty good.
Speaker: Now your trough – I know my peak's not as great as your peak, but let's hear your trough.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I would say my trough is I –
Speaker: So I would say my trough, and this is probably going to be easy to resonate with for anybody who is any kind of distance away from home, but I've got the opportunity to go back home for Memorial Day weekend.
Speaker: I actually am taking a couple days of PTO in addition to it, so I've got that Thursday and a Monday off, and I'm just realizing I don't have that much time to get to see all the people that I want to.
Speaker: So it's really, it's disheartening because I want to do all of this.
Speaker: Like, I want to go see this person.
Speaker: I want to go have dinner with this person.
Speaker: I want to go get drinks with this person.
Speaker: But I also have to remember that I have family.
Speaker: I have my mom, my dad, my wife's mom and dad, my friend group, her friends, her siblings, my siblings.
Speaker: So I only have so much time.
Speaker: And one of the worst things I could think of doing right now is try to
Speaker: somehow cram it all together to where it's not quality time spent and I don't want it to feel really rushed.
Speaker: So I'm really struggling to figure out how I want to use the best, use that time to the best without making people feel like, like, oh, I'm just rushing because I've got to check all these boxes.
Speaker: But I also don't want to make people feel like, yep, I chose these people over you.
Speaker: Oh, that's very tough.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: I don't know how you're going to do it.
Speaker: I wish I could give you advice, but I'm not too all familiar with having that huge of a family and all these different, you know, people I have to go see.
Speaker: Usually it's just like my close and immediate family.
Speaker: So I don't have that much.
Speaker: My trough.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: No, this is not really my trough, but this is going to be Jay's trough, my coworker.
Speaker: Sorry, Jay, if you're listening to this.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker: So Jay, actually, it's kind of going through the lab after my car got towed.
Speaker: It went to my undergrad student.
Speaker: Her car got towed a couple weeks later.
Speaker: And now today, just today, a couple hours ago, Jay's car got towed.
Speaker: So I feel really bad.
Speaker: And I'm like, I can relate to that feeling.
Speaker: It's the worst feeling seeing your car and it's not there.
Speaker: And you're like, did it get stolen or is it just towed?
Speaker: Most likely toad.
Speaker: It's toad.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: So anyways, I'm going to help him out and take him to the toe place because I appreciated when someone took me there.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: That's okay.
Speaker: It's another application lesson of opportunity cost.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: It almost like traumatized me so much.
Speaker: I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker: Like I feel like I felt like it was happening to me because I've experienced that, that pain and that emotion that
Speaker: he's going through and I was like, I can relate.
Speaker: I was actually a lot worse than he was.
Speaker: He's doing pretty fine, but pretty cool, calm, cool and collected.
Speaker: So yeah, good, good for him that he was like that in that situation.
Speaker: But I do feel for him.
Speaker: So it's, it's not a good, good feeling.
Speaker: So that's my trough.
Speaker: It kind of resonated into me.
Speaker: Anyways, I'm really happy we get to do this podcast, this episode at least.
Speaker: And I know it's been a while,
Speaker: Yeah, I know we've had some delays in posting some things, so I do apologize.
Speaker: We've been both very busy and traveling for conferences.
Speaker: You have a new job.
Speaker: I'm moving.
Speaker: Not very far, but still in the same position.
Speaker: So, yeah, we just had a lot going on.
Speaker: But thanks for kind of hanging in there and still listening, and we're hoping to bring out some more podcast episodes in the future.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm excited, especially as the summer starts and there's people starting residency, people starting appies.
Speaker: I'm seeing it all over social media.
Speaker: So it'll be our time to get the episodes out to where hopefully people find it helpful.
Speaker: I've had at least one person message me and say they found our podcast helpful.
Speaker: So I consider that a win.
Speaker: Maybe that'll be a peek I'll dive more in another day.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a nice peek, actually.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Yeah, even if it's one person, that's, that's, I know I'm doing something right.
Speaker: So that's good.
Speaker: We'll sign off now.
Speaker: We'll see you all the next episode.
