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Imperial Nostalgia, Internet Adolescence in HBO's Euphoria & the Ideal of Zara Larsson
23 Plays2 months ago
We're back! And this week, we get into why the past is having such a moment. Charlie unpacks the rise of imperial nostalgia, as politics and pop culture keep circling back to airbrushed versions of what came before.
From there, Clementine gets into the hyperreal chaos of HBO's Euphoria, Series one and two saw Gen Z's coming-of-age play out in full view, with nothing softened and very little spared. With series three back, we're dropped straight into it: growing up online, under constant scrutiny.
And finally, Charlie makes the case for Zara Larsson as a role model for young women and girls - and explains why her version of fame feels refreshingly wholesome.
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Transcript
Introduction and Global Reach
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to Notes App Correspondence, a podcast by two journalists who take on culture and current affairs. We're back! Hi Charlie! Hi Clem! Hi, how are you? I'm good, thank you. How are you? and very well, thank you. And you're joining us from somewhere very glamorous indeed. i am joining from the questionable internet of the hills of Conjic near Sarajevo.
00:00:26
Speaker
But, you know, we have a stunning lake here. It's sunny outside. Life is good. So since our first episode launched last week, we've had some really lovely feedback and we really appreciate it. So we wanted to shout out a few people, Byrne, George Dunn, Marcus Phillips, who listened twice, wo Bilal Mahmood and Anna writing in from Luxembourg. um Sorry not to dox you, but I think it's important to say that you're from Luxembourg to really capture the reach that we're achieving here. We're trying to break a record, people. And of course, our our really dear friends, Ed and Nikhil. Thanks, Ed and Nikhil. We wouldn't even be here without you. We would be nothing without you. Big love. We love you and thanks for thanks for everything.
Nostalgia in Entertainment and Politics
00:01:07
Speaker
Okay, so Charlie, what have you been thinking about this week?
00:01:12
Speaker
Well, it's been an interesting it's been an interesting week. It's been a little bit busy with travel, as you know, but what that has given me some time for on various plane rides and delays, etc., ah um is some time to ruminate on our conversation from last week. And obviously last week we spoke about Justin Bieber at Coachella and the kind of divided opinions on his performance.
00:01:38
Speaker
So I've been kind of ruminating on that a little bit more and just wondering why and how that got so much attention and really captured like a lot of people. And I am going to assert that the main driver behind that is nostalgia and this like emotional storytelling that Justin Bieber played on in that performance.
00:01:57
Speaker
So in in the example of his performance, I think that you can see that with him kind of singing up at his younger self and looking at his younger self and singing old songs. And it plays on people's emotions in, would argue, in a really, really strong, nostalgic way. And I do think that that, in my opinion, is the main driver behind the success of that performance as someone who enjoyed it. but Old school Belieber. Old school Belieber. can show you photos for proof.
00:02:24
Speaker
um hit photos that should never see the light of day but I'll show you ah um I believe there's a video of me somewhere singing baby in a karaoke booth so well we should set up a podcast on your page just so we can post that
00:02:40
Speaker
but um I think it's really interesting and I was it it got me thinking about nostalgia more broadly as a concept and obviously when we think about nostalgia it literally means like the return to the lost home and taking that a little bit further I i would argue that that is kind of become the defining theme of our age.
00:02:59
Speaker
And I think you can see that in in shows like, for example, Stranger Things, or, you know, the Oasis reunion, or the Beatles film, or even now, like the 2026 to 2016 trend online. And I think it's really become this kind of defining feeling or sentiment that everyone taps into and and plays really well on people's on people's really inner emotions. I think it's interesting to highlight that we also see that echoed in our politics at the moment as well.
The Power of Nostalgia in Society
00:03:26
Speaker
And in particular, this kind of rise of the far right that we're seeing. There's a really, really wonderful book that I recently read on this, which is super relevant to the UK's experience of that. And it's it's called Imperial Nostalgia by Peter Mitchell. I don't know if you've read it. I've not, but this sounds really good.
00:03:43
Speaker
Ah, I shall bring it into the office. It's very good. so We only really have to think about reform, for example, or now restore, which I won't get into, but their kind of use of nostalgic tropes and nationalism and this kind of take back rhetoric when it comes to like borders and control and everything that they promised that we used to have. And I think we can really see this echoed in how fascism is or seems to me all about this kind of return. And it feels very heavily based on this sense of nostalgia. Obviously that nostalgia that we're seeing in politics has to do with like inequality and discontent and decline and the kind of powerlessness that people often feel.
00:04:24
Speaker
But I think it's really interesting to see that theme play out across both our consumption of entertainment and pop culture. and also are a growing faction of political preferences among society. And it just, I think, speaks to the sense of, I suppose, feeling lost is the wrong word, but the sense of powerlessness that people have at the moment. It's just an interesting observation to see it play out in parallel across both of those areas. And I think it's something that everyone should interrogate and question the kind of policies themselves and question whether they align with you or whether they do in fact tap in in quite a sinister way to this kind of feeling and this emotion and they're playing on that for you.
00:05:03
Speaker
No, absolutely. And it's interesting because so much of the perpetrator's glamorized idea of what they think they want to go back to doesn't exist and it never existed the the feeling of nostalgia has really warped any sense of validity in their claims it feels like yeah yeah absolutely and I think and this is also I should just point out that this is not kind of to blame anyone for feeling like that because I think it is a super super powerful strong emotion and I think that that is a very clever tactic to use to play on people's
00:05:37
Speaker
on people's hearts and emotions like that. But I i completely agree. i I think people are being sold a past, not a future, and also a past that didn't exist at the time and certainly wouldn't now. And no one can take that away from them either because no one was there.
00:05:52
Speaker
And actually when, on the flip side, on on the left, it was interesting to see when Keir Starmer got in and no one is feeling nostalgic for him and it was very much a ah consolation prize almost.
00:06:07
Speaker
But when Labour did get in for the first time in 14 years, they tried to play on that kind of new Labour emotion. They tried to bottle that up in in a way things can only get better. And then the the resurgence of Britpop or the idea of the resurgence of Britpop. And then reality really burst the bubble of nostalgia, which I think can never be understated because we can't go back.
00:06:32
Speaker
But of course, I don't blame people for feeling like that. And he wouldn't want to go back and go back to an ah a perceived simpler and better time. Yeah, exactly. And it's so, you know, it really plays on the kind of, I suppose, the subjectivity of memory itself
Media's Reflection of Pre-Pandemic Nostalgia
00:06:47
Speaker
as well. And if you consistently and repeatedly feed people a narrative and show people images of a life that you're arguing was better, it's it's no wonder that people start to kind of prioritise those more positive affiliations, I suppose, in their mind.
00:07:04
Speaker
But i think you're absolutely right. It's we can't go back. We need to look forward even closer to recent history and closer to home. We still see this kind of yearning amongst people in in what they consume and in the art that they that we produce and consume this yearning for um a life, a pre-pandemic life.
00:07:23
Speaker
And i think you've been been watching something about that lately. a Yes, Euphoria Series 3 is upon us and I went back to some of the older episodes. This show started in 2019, which was a pre-pandemic world, which is crazy to think about. That was seven seven years ago, 2019. is crazy.
00:07:43
Speaker
it' crazy Although in a way we kind of are, this is really getting off topic, but it feels like big corporations are trying to forget that it happened with this return to office. Yes. It's funny that we'll be nostalgic in time for pandemic life where we work from home.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. You're so right. That's so interesting. Especially that kind of, I suppose the period, that kind of sweet spot between, i don't know if I can call it post pandemic, but post kind of height of pandemic. but still social restrictions in terms of office work. I think, yeah, people will start to to feel nostalgia for that at some point.
00:08:22
Speaker
But of course I digress. Euphoria Series 3, we're now a few episodes in, depending on when you're listening to this. The premiere dropped it a few weeks ago. For those unfamiliar, Euphoria is an HBO drama about a group of teenagers initially in suburban California navigating adolescence in the age of social media and the sex, drugs and distinctly un-rock and roll trauma of all of that. It's the show that propelled the controversial Sidney Sweeney to stardom.
00:08:52
Speaker
Sydney, sweetie. Yeah, Jacob and Lordy, the very alluring on screen persona of Alexa Demme, Hunter Schaefer, the show propelled them all to stardom, while pairing them with established names like Zendaya and Judd Apatow's character, Maud, the late RIP Eric Dane, who some listeners will know as McSteamy from Grey's Anatomy, Dominic Fyke, the musician, and the consistently brilliant Coleman Domingo, who is currently in the new Michael Jackson film. Of course. Charlie, are you watching Euphoria? i
00:09:28
Speaker
am actually not, but I am keeping up to date with some of the media around the premiere and things like that. But I have never watched Euphoria. depending on what you say, i might give it a go.
00:09:42
Speaker
Well, see what you think. Because one thing about Euphoria is that it has always been shadowed by content controversy, i want to say. It's not a comfortable watch. Its main character, ro played by Zendaya, is a teenage drug addict and we as the viewers are made to endure her series of lateral and deleterious movements towards danger and towards compulsion alongside her. It covers abuse in all of its forms and substance. I've while domestic, sexual, familial, and that is really an ambient part of those atmospheric fabric, I think. And that's before we even get into the repeated criticism levelled at its creator, Sam Levinson.
00:10:24
Speaker
whose creative choices have been questioned and time again. Levinson writes and directs much of the show himself, despite the show being built on the shoulders of other creators. So it gives kind of their idea, this singular voice refracted through only him. And that also means there's limited counterbalance in the show's trajectory. Some some critics feel the series reflects a very specific male auteur-driven perspective on female adolescents, which can feel at odds with the experiences it's portraying. There have been reports and cast comments suggesting a chaotic production environment. And I know you you mentioned the premiere. There was some discourse around who hates who or who refuses
00:11:10
Speaker
even stand next to so and so for a picture some actors have praised the creative freedom that Levinson has allowed them during the production of the show others have have suggested that there is just been a total catastrophe during the filming yeah So another one, critics often argue that euphoria depends too heavily on young female suffering emotionally and physically in ways that feel boyaristic.
00:11:39
Speaker
The show's very, very explicit nudity and sexual scenarios, particularly involving teenage characters, which, of course, they're played by adults who are in their late twenty s and thirty s but I've seen discourse play out around the ethics of that. There have been lots of questions about whether the show is interrogating these dynamics or aestheticising them. Right. That said, I don't want to be dismissed as exaggerating when I describe it as generation-defining television, because I do think that is exactly what it is. It rewired how a certain slice of Gen Z saw itself on screen and its impact, as is so often with revolutionary
00:12:19
Speaker
art that pushes boundaries comes down to a few overlapping shifts it captured at exactly the right moment in culture. I think it mirrored the always online psyche. The show understands Gen Z doesn't and has never had a separate real life from digital life.
Euphoria and Gen Z's Reality
00:12:35
Speaker
And I think it's fair to say felt accurate in a way earlier shows only gestured towards. Euphoria, on the other hand, showed exactly what it is like to grow up knowing everything about you can be recorded and subsequently weaponized against you. What does that actually do to a person growing up like that? It has its effects. What's more, it aestheticized in a chaos in a way that felt new. I think euphoria turned all of that anxiety and identity crisis into something totally cinematic and irresistibly seductive. You had the glitter-streaked tears and neon-lit reveries and very harrowing music, a harrowing score by Labyrinth, and all of that was shown through dreamlike, euphoric film sequences.
00:13:29
Speaker
that turned that emotional instability into something beautiful. And of course, art itself as a medium has been doing that for as long as time itself. But Euphoria, I think, really accurately mirrored the way a generation has learned to package its own turmoil into beautiful curated fragments for Instagram, for Tumblr, for Pinterest. And while euphoria has undeniably been sensationalized, it is never so distant as to feel abstract. The world is sensationalized, yes. But I do think the underlying realities of euphoria are no less valid. What are those realities exactly? The experiences it gestures towards are the ones that have been circling in in the periphery of Gen Z adolescence, as I say. That includes anonymous identities online, older men pursuing underage girls often online Teenagers meeting older men on hookup apps. The normalisation of hookup apps more broadly. That's something that until millennials, no generation had ever had to deal with. Early and often extreme exposure to pornography. And in many cases in the show, it it really is too extreme to even bear thinking about. And of course, that has led to heightened physical aggression within relationships.
00:14:45
Speaker
the the show does capture really well the spiral of young women commodifying themselves online and boys young men responding to that with hostility towards women because it's been so normalized through the pornography that they're consuming which everybody has a direct access to very very quickly they yeah I mean we have a whole world at our fingertips to just consume it.
00:15:09
Speaker
I'm not saying that to be alarmist. I'm saying it because our generation has grown up alongside the internet during what was, in many ways, a digital wild west. We really have had to navigate as it evolved in real time. And even now, meaningful accountability from major social media platforms about the world they've created remains non-existent. And much of that burden has had to be absorbed by users themselves slash we've never known an adult life not lived in near constant visibility that is as inescapable so yeah i'm not saying this to be alarmist and to parents of young children now i'm sorry if this scared you things are things are changing but they that that's how it was for us right
00:15:57
Speaker
It is. there absolutely is. And I think it sounds sad to say, but unfortunately is often reality. It's difficult, isn't it? Because uncomfortable watching, I think in both of our opinions, and I won't speak for you, but I think is really important. And I think if something is confronting and uncomfortable, you need to kind of ask yourself why and ask yourself what that evokes within you or what that makes you or what it reminds you of or, um,
00:16:22
Speaker
I suppose what it makes you face. And I think, especially when it comes to the kind of rise of the accessibility of pornography, the kind of, not even accessibility, the kind of forcing down your throat almost. I wish I had a better term for that, but it's become almost in some spaces and for some people difficult to avoid falling into that online. And I think We only have to look at like the rise of OnlyFans and the the incredibly accessible way that they have managed to make it to for anyone to to join that platform and to become it, in their words,
00:16:57
Speaker
creator, I think is not to sound wildly unfeminist, but is dangerous and needs regulating. And I think almost everyone will know someone or knows someone who knows someone you're never, you know, that far removed from somebody who has pursued that avenue or has at least explored what that might look like.
Economic Inequality and Generational Gaps
00:17:14
Speaker
e it's really it's not very nice to see and then there's the drug use in the show which is absolutely relentless we see hard drug use itself but also the downward spiral that follows particularly when there is no meaningful safety net to catch it and in this age of widening inequality a narrow elite controlling a disproportionate share of wealth today is comparable to pre-revolutionary France couple that with weakened welfare states and less stable employment pathways today that lack of protection feels entirely plausible yeah
00:17:48
Speaker
Another aspect of this i is, I think, well, I alluded to it before, but how all of this unfolds under constant visibility. All of our identity information, our relationship, our friendship, our sexual exploration, our mistakes, some of them totally socially catastrophic have all played out on social media as we've grown up they've been magnified and immortalized by the internet which promises that that nothing can ever really disappear so so is it any wonder that anxiety feels like condition of the age i don't think so
00:18:21
Speaker
And again, Rue's character, Zendaya's character, articulates this almost immediately in the show. In the very first scene of the very first episode, she narrates how she was born at the time of the 9-11 attacks and her parents were moving her in hospital, watching the towers fall repeatedly on the television until grief gives way to eventual numbness. And i I really do think that it's an incredibly effective way of setting the emotional backdrop of a generation, one defined by anxiety. Yeah.
00:18:51
Speaker
Absolutely. That sounds like such a powerful opening. And I think that kind of the articulation that you just mentioned with kind of grief, kind of relentlessly giving giving way eventually to numbness is is a really powerful message. And I think resonates with a lot of young people when you think about the kind of relentless consumption of the worst news and the worst events and just terrible news available at your fingertips constantly. And for the parents who argued at the time that social media itself is optional, I think that point only served to widen the gulf between generations because it never really felt optional. Not being on those platforms often meant missing out on a significant and part of social life. Everyone else was there. Everyone else was on these platforms at at the time. It's interesting to see the social media bans for children under 16 make headlines now. We didn't have that option. We were the guinea pigs. We grew up with the internet and no one knew how to contain it.
00:19:52
Speaker
And so for the parents who did argue at the time that, oh, well, it's just optional. You don't have to. Why would you put yourself on there? You don't have to i Try telling a middle-aged man to never go to the pub or never to engage in football. It's not realistic. Generally, it just isn't. No, it's not. And if you, you know, you're then essentially what you're asking is, you know, don't have those common reference points with your friends. Don't have, don't be involved in those conversations. In theory, i suppose it could be done, but it feels like it would be a very isolating experience.
00:20:24
Speaker
Absolutely. It's not, it would be a social uphill battle. Absolutely. It's the kind of thing ah Robert Pattinson character would do in a film. That's so true. Speaking of Zendaya and the drama, I can't wait to go to the cinema.
00:20:37
Speaker
Oh, hell yes.
00:20:40
Speaker
So anyway, we're at the third and likely final series of Euphoria without any spoilers. I can say that the characters are now at a later stage in their lives. They've left school, but they're still young people. You may have seen the online promotion around Sydney Sweeney's character, who has taken quote making content online, by which I mean explicit, very, very sexualized content of
Character Development and Societal Reflections
00:21:05
Speaker
herself. four OnlyFans. Right. This includes her dressing up as a dog and crawling on all fours in a corset and high heels and a dog collar and a lead. There's one that where she's also dressed up as a baby.
00:21:19
Speaker
Naturally that shock factor has produced a torrent of online reaction. I've seen a lot of people online saying they've ruined her character, they've over-sexualized her, they've reduced her to a shallow arc with this single note descent.
00:21:33
Speaker
To those people, I would say get a grip. You're telling me the character has always had a cripplingly desperate need for male attention. And that isn't me being harsh. That's the crux of the character.
00:21:47
Speaker
She's up at four in the morning, meticulously assembling a beauty routine so a boy at school will notice her, even at the expense of her best friendship in the show. I think to suggest that such a character would not follow this trajectory is to ignore what has been there from the start.
00:22:07
Speaker
And not to mention everything we said beforehand about the world, our world in which this show exists. you know Mind you, this is the generation that will hand out a £50,000 prize jackpot for having sex on TV. or Often they'll do it for simply the the possibility of a few brand deals on Instagram and not even the 50k jackpot. The path of OnlyFans for this generation has been so normalized. We know a million Sydney Sweeney's. We know a million Cassie Hall, which is her character. I don't think it should be a surprise in an age where we have Bonnie Blue and Lily Phillips and insert others here. ah um Gosh, I hope they don't come for me now.
00:22:51
Speaker
oh no they're going to sue you and and put your image through grok oh yeah actually that's and that's a funny point in the age of grok do we need bonnie blue excellent question excellent question do we ever need bonnie blue good but you're so right you're so right maybe we should do a whole deep dive episode on bonnie blue we have more to say on that for sure But speaking of more to say, between us two, there is always more to say about one specific individual. Please reveal who we are talking
Sarah Larson's Influence and Advocacy
00:23:28
Speaker
about.
00:23:28
Speaker
You are so right. i think we could talk about her for days on end and still have more to say. Her name is, of course, Sarah Larson, our absolute icon. I think she's just so, she's so important to talk about, which I know we align on because we talk about her constantly in the office, outside of the office. Yeah.
00:23:49
Speaker
And we'll we'll go and see her in summer. So this is my official plea for her to listen to this. And come and find us in summer. um if you're listening, we know the Lush Life Dance and we would love to get on stage with you.
00:24:05
Speaker
yeah In fact, we can we have video proof of us doing it at multiple functions. We have video evidence, Zara. Tell us what we can do to get on that stage.
00:24:18
Speaker
Exactly. The hottest ticket in town, for sure. um But I just think she's so important to talk about. And I know we talk about this often with one another, but I think it's so, she's so impressive, firstly, as an individual, incredible discography, incredible kind of tour production, dance routine, voice control, breath control, everything. You can tell that this woman has been training for this for over a decade. And it shows. And I am so, so glad. And I know that we are both so happy that she is finally getting the attention that she deserves.
00:24:51
Speaker
And I think she's really important to look at and to talk about and such a kind of role model figure, I think, for for younger women. i think that the way that she uses her platform is really inspiring. And, you know, not only does she clearly work incredibly hard, she seems like, and I know we don't know her personally, but I feel like we do.
00:25:09
Speaker
She seems like an incredibly sweet person. She's hilarious. She's so funny. If you go back through, you know, the archived footage of her being interviewed on red carpet or, for example, being asked in interviews who would never be on a playlist of hers, she's always incredibly quick and consistent to name artists who have done heinous things. She will never listen to Chris Brown. Yeah, when she says it, people have been shocked.
00:25:35
Speaker
Like, oh, wow, I can't believe she would say that, Chris Brown. Did we not forget? Did did we forget how morally bankrupt this violent and abusive man is? Exactly. it's It's just ridiculous. It's cool that she stands she stands apart by never letting anybody forget that. She really does. She really does. And...
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, and that's just one example of the stances that she's taken and how much we can we can look to her for, not for moral guidance, but for, I don't think we've ever seen an example of her yet in in a moral kind of sticky situation. A more recent example of that would be, you know, the joke that she made on stage. And I should maybe first, just for the sake of anyone listening who's who's maybe more uncomfortable or more sensitive to the topic, I If we talk about abortion briefly, you know, on stage, she made a joke quite recently about a fan of hers that had come and then had chosen, had like elected to have an abortion the next day. so she made a joke about that. It got a lot of controversy online, as one, I suppose, can expect with with this kind of topic. And then she made ah a deeper, ah kind of longer form video afterwards, still on TikTok, still only a couple of minutes, but she essentially interrogated why abortion is only okay and only acceptable
00:26:51
Speaker
when women suffer for it and when women are upset or traumatized by it and why it can't be okay for that just to be a choice and for women to not really feel any type of way about it.
00:27:02
Speaker
And I think that point that she raised about, okay, you say that you're pro-abortion, but you're actually only pro it if there's suffering involved or if there's some level of trauma involved is a really good example of her kind of using this. It's not a newfound platform, but obviously her platform has drastically increased in the last kind of year 18 months or so and I think that that's that's just one example of her using that to talk about the issues that not only matter to her but that are really really important for women at the moment and always have been but especially are being kind of interrogated at the moment you know and for example last week you were talking about ah we were talking about s Sabrina Carpenter one of our other favorite
00:27:41
Speaker
pop girlies and kind of questioning whether she fits into the male gaze or female gaze and we kind landed on neither which if listeners want to learn more about that and didn't hear it last week they can go and listen shameless plug for our own podcast there ah um But I think it's really interesting to see Larsen do not the same thing. I don't think they're doing the same thing in that regard, but a similar thing in the sense of she's clearly a very like sexually liberated in the way that she performs. She's very expressive. She's a very good dancer. And and she uses that in her performance in what I think is an amazing way.
00:28:18
Speaker
But I think it's really interesting because I would also argue that she is decidedly not aimed at any kind of male validation or approval. That is so true. She's the archetypal perfect woman for the male gaze. And yet, say there is no question that she renounces everything to do with the male gaze and you can tell that she is performing for the women and the LGBTQ community.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah no I think you're absolutely right and I think it's so it's just really heartwarming to see and I think it's really it's a really lovely kind of safe space that she has created within those audiences and within her online community as well. She's very clear about who she wants there, who she agrees with, what she doesn't agree with, and and what she'll tolerate. And she's got a very uplifting aura and presence about her. And I just think it's very heartwarming to see in an age where there is a lot of negativity and a lot of violence. Be the sunshine like Zara Larson.
00:29:19
Speaker
You've been listening to Notes App Correspondents. If you've enjoyed the show, we would really appreciate it if you could share, subscribe, rate and review the episode because it helps people find your podcast.
00:29:31
Speaker
Thanks so much.