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Miranda Priestly, the Met Gala & a New Memoir by Lena Dunham
32 Plays2 months ago
This week: Charlie and Clementine talk The Devil Wears Prada 2, the slow erosion of quality (or the enshitification of absolutely everything), the tech bro colonisation of the Met Gala, how this new Vogue era is reputation-laundering billionaires, how Vogue is reputation-laundering billionaires, and what the magazine's future might look like - as well as Lena Dunham’s new memoir, Famesick.
Disclaimer: If you enjoy podcasts that sound like they were recorded inside an acoustically challenged biscuit tin, this one’s for you. The audio quality this time is not perfect but we're saying it's part of the indie, lo-fi aesthetic okay!!! Maybe squint with your ears a little on this one.
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Transcript
Reunion and Listener Shoutouts
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to Notes App Correspondence. A podcast by two journalists who take on culture and current affairs. Hi Charlie! Hi! We're back!
00:00:11
Speaker
We're back! How are you I'm well, thank you. I'm so glad to be here with you in person. Yes! Last week you were in Bosnia recording from from a gorgeous lake and now you're recording from, well listeners, let's just say if you could see the room that we were in, it'd say get out of the basement. Yeah, yeah, I think we, I think we must go back to Bosnia. People just hovel in here like bin weevils in this windowless, in this windowless room. But anyway, do you have any shout outs to make for this week's episode? Oh, I would love to actually. notes up shout out. We got some lovely feedback last week. So want say thank you in particular to Jacob who sent some lovely notes and said he really enjoyed listening to us talk. Who knows if that's true, but I appreciated the comment. So shout out to Jacob. Thank you so much. how about you?
00:01:07
Speaker
I would like to shout out to
Fan Mail Reactions
00:01:09
Speaker
a Mr. James Stanforth, who listened to the podcast and was very nice about us. And also we received some fan mail from an anonymous writer who said, Dear Clementine and Charlie, long time listener, first time writer.
00:01:23
Speaker
I was incensed upon hearing your slander of Bonnie Blue in last week's episode. but If it were not for Bonnie Blue, i would not be engaged to my wife-to-be. Best wishes, grey-haired old boot. Now, I don't know who that could be. I mean, he sounds like a lucky man. He sounds like lucky man. Whoever you are, just be grateful you have a wife-to-be. Unless it's Bonnie Blue, maybe. you That's true. Yeah, I don't know how we would feel about that one.
00:01:47
Speaker
Well... I'm going to it's not. I'm going to presume it's not. But thank you. Please do keep sending in your, yeah, keep sending in your best wishes and your questions. We love to answer questions. You know where to find us.
00:02:01
Speaker
If you're listening at this early point in our podcasting career, you know who we are. You know who we are. Oh, we must also thank Amelia Byrne. Oh, Amelia Byrne. Lovely note and said she was excited to talk more about the podcast and to listen to Amelia, we can't wait to see you. Exactly.
00:02:22
Speaker
Hell yes. now we can get on to the show.
Critique of 'The Devil Wears Prada 2'
00:02:25
Speaker
what have I been thinking about this week? What has been on your mind, Clem? What has been on my mind is I went to the cinema to see The Devil Wears Prada 2. I was so excited to see it. I'd heard so many good things about the film in reviews and from word of mouth and stuff. So I was very excited. I'm incredibly jealous. I simply must go and see it ASAP.
00:02:48
Speaker
You must. I will say this, it is great escapism. To the people who were saying how good the film is and how the quality of the film is very excellent, okay I have one question and that question is, why are we watching the same film?
00:03:07
Speaker
I enjoyed it and I'm glad I went to see it. But it was not a good film. I'm really sorry to say. no okay, how about Meryl's voice?
00:03:17
Speaker
Oh, well, Meryl, she's Meryl. She's great. She's great. But I do have some thoughts about her characterisation. sorry, Miranda Priestly's characterisation, which have nothing to do with Meryl. That's all to do with direction and whatever. But not high art, then.
00:03:35
Speaker
not high art and nowhere near as good as the first one i will say as well it was a bit of a gut punch as a journalist to watch the devil wears prodigy because the crux of the film is that runway is no longer what it was and everything has gone to the dogs and it really speaks to the kind of end shitification to borrow a phrase from Our dear Richard Simmons, if you ever listen to this, The Entitification of Culture, and also the magazine and newspaper industry. A little bit too close to home. Really close to home. Yeah, so Runway may be a fashion magazine, but it's struggling under the same conditions that have left the newspaper business chewed up and spit out. yeah Really depressing stuff. The magazine itself in the film, 20 years on, now largely exists in the, quote, ether of the internet. Rather than actual newsstands and writers are all chasing clicks in the never-ending rat race of the attention economy,
00:04:34
Speaker
And the thing is, you can win the rat race, but you're still a rat. That's so true. That's so good. That's our profound piece of wisdom for you today, listeners. You're still a rat. You're still a rat. You're just the first rat.
00:04:49
Speaker
King rat. So, yeah, everyone at Runway and at the publisher is living at the mercy of the parent company CEOs and the tech billionaires who are so detached from humanity they seem genuinely excited to fiddle while Roman burns. There's a bittersweet, wistful feeling as fashion director Nigel Kipling played by the unparalleled Stanley Tucci, who actually, was thinking about this, is he the most popular man in Hollywood? I've never seen anyone say a bad word about him. I've never anyone dislike him. How can you?
00:05:25
Speaker
You can't. Emily Long called him the tooch i mean the age But yeah, so his character recalls how he used to get huge budgets to travel the world and create these glamorous photo shoots. And now he gets two days to, quote, shoot content for people who will scroll past it whilst they're on the toilet. Oh, that's heartbreaking. Yeah, it's really sad. um And then Miranda Priestly, who is Meryl Streep, based on Anna Wintour. She later muses that anyone still trying to make a living in written media is just clinging to the last bits of wood floating next to the Titanic. So yeah, those of us making a living out of writing, but like they are you probably feel the same way. good There are ways in which changing with the times is good and necessary and then, you know, you get
00:06:16
Speaker
Shots of Miranda's HR violating moments where her new Emily has to be like, no, no, can't say that. Right. So that's been an interesting development since 2007. But there are also ways we can slowly erode our own cultural values and standards without even realising what we're doing. And I think the film really wants to hammer that home. And Anne Hathaway, she returns the as the main character, really. it goes The main character alongside Meryl Streep. she points out that it's not just media or fashion that's in trouble everything is headed in this consolidated tech-driven billionaire backed direction these days and she's leading to what end she's a practically tears okay what end and on Anne Hathaway's character she's now firmly established in the world of quote
00:07:05
Speaker
Serious journalism. Okay. Good for her. Yeah, but she's suffering the whiplash of a lifetime because the film opens and she's winning an award for her hard-hitting serious journalism. Okay. But just before she's about to go up, her team learns that they've lost their jobs by text. Yeah, affected by the maths layoffs sweeping seemingly all media news outlets.
00:07:29
Speaker
So yeah, this whole the whole crux of the film, the whole point of the film is around... This kind of demise, this cultural demise. And it's funny because that's the message. But I think the quality of the film is evidence of its own message because the film wasn't there it isn't very easy yeah sophisticated. It wasn't very well made. Okay. And the standards of mainstream Hollywood filmmaking were also so obviously lower nowadays than they were when the film first came out. yeah You know, it's about the dying industry of journalism, but but it also was such stark evidence of the dying of culture and art itself. that the The writing of the script left so much to be desired. there were plot holeles left, right and centre. The characters were so alien. to their original but they they honestly felt unrecognizable you know there were times in the film that Miranda was cooing over things and she was mawkish and sentimental it was very strange it was not on Miranda it's not on Miranda and it's not Anna Wintour and Emily's trajectory made no sense and they kind of turned her into this pantomime caricature and the entire the entire script
00:08:44
Speaker
felt so on the nose and so obvious, which I know is a criticism that Netflix-produced films have received, that they that they they write for an audience they know is going to be half-scrolling, and so they don't... yeah There's no subtlety. there's yeah you know it's It's spelled out so literally, which I think is so patronising to us as viewers. It really is. I'm actually not criticising the writers here because I know that this will be what the studios have asked for,
00:09:13
Speaker
yeah If it's bad and if it's obvious, it's bankable. and And I think the release of The Devil Wears Prada 2 at this time, and also Michael, the Michael Jackson film that's just come out, yes that will be propping up cinemas for the whole year. yeah Because they know they can rely on the box office money that it will generate, which is so
Met Gala 2023 Discussion
00:09:34
Speaker
sad. And speaks to your point around the degradation of these art forms in and of themselves. And I wish, you know, when you were...
00:09:43
Speaker
explaining kind of the quality of the film going down as compared to the 2007 film. A small part of me wishes that we could give them some credit and try and claim that they were doing something super meta there. Yeah.
00:09:56
Speaker
But we know that that's not the case. Well, we know that, but we can presume that's not the case. You must have felt like in quite a unique position as a viewer with the kind of journalistic elements that i was speaking to and also with the tech side of it.
00:10:11
Speaker
in your current role as a tech reporter, that must be quite interesting. Absolutely, I'm coming at it from all sides. So I went to see the film with someone who writes scripts for television. We were talking about the point that it's what the big execs want. They want stuff that they know that they can sell. Easy, it's low stakes, it's not going to ruffle any feathers in a way that's going to damage or threaten profits. Yeah. But I would say go and see it so so you can see yourself. Have the experience. Yeah. And it was good escapism. New York looks lovely. As she always does. And it's got some impressive cameos, gar-gars in it. Even though her cameo and her small storyline made no sense. But yeah, I would recommend it. I would recommend you go and see it just so you can see it yourself. Yeah.
00:10:55
Speaker
On the tech side of things, it was interesting that the film came out around the same time as, of course, the biggest event in the cultural calendar, the Met Gala. Met Gala, it's back! It's back, it's so back. And we are back to give you our thoughts on it.
00:11:13
Speaker
We are. What did you think of it? And we can get to the tech side, the surprising tech side and of the Met Gala this year as well, but... Coming to the theme itself, artist fashion.
00:11:26
Speaker
i loved it. What did you think? I loved it too. i thought some of the interpretations of the theme were really, really interesting. Beyonce's really stuck out to me. Stunning. One of the comments I saw from just someone on TikTok, and they said, some of the costumes I didn't like at the start, And then I realized what they were alluding to And then that made me appreciate them more, which I thought was really cool. Which I think is part of the, it's always part of the point, right? Is that you can't really take these costumes at face value because there's so much research that goes into each and every one of them certain degree.
00:12:01
Speaker
Some of them less successfully than others. And in that case, I think we would agree. Lauren Sanchez Bezos, please, can we do some something more interesting? She just has a way of making everything she ever wears look so cheap. And it's it's feet because she's the richest woman in the world and the clothes aren't. But I never, even when she employs the services of Law Roach, who is a very well-respected stylist and has styled people like Zendaya, who always looks good. yeah Even he can't translate his skill to make her look alluring in a way that's not just, I mean she looks so MAGA, she's the epitome of the um of the MAGA woman. Yeah, yeah and I think it's such a shame. I think, I know that you know she was referencing a portrait in this on this occasion and that's fine, but it just ultimately felt very plain. with him
00:12:57
Speaker
It felt like something that you could wear to any cocktail or black tie event, so' not what you would pick for the Met Gala. This is wasted on these people. Please give us a chance. Seriously.
00:13:08
Speaker
One day we'll make it, Deba. Please, Anna Wintour. And the beauty of her original reference, Madame X, was that it was so shocking and so yeah so provocative at at its time for its like naked expression of beauty and female sexuality. That held up hundreds of years ago in the way that Lauren Sanchez just can't do that now because she flaunts everything. She flaunts her wealth. She flaunts her body. She flaunts her relationship. There is nothing left to the imagination. Whereas in the original Madame X, I think the beauty of it was that it was just a peak, but a peak too far. Yes.
00:13:48
Speaker
But we've done that now. And she can't, you know, you she you can't take that. Lauren Sanchez Bezos can't take that back. Exactly. Exactly. And i think, again, you know, similarly, we could...
00:14:00
Speaker
try and give what I would argue is undue credit and try and imagine that she might be making some kind of statement on, you know, modern, revealing fashion.
00:14:14
Speaker
i simply don't think that's the case. I don't think that's the case. And this is the thing, you can't even call it bad because bad would at least have a point of view. yeah She doesn't have a point of It was just boring. It was just boring and it feels lazy, which is an insult to the event.
00:14:30
Speaker
Sanchez Bezos herself gave a grand speech before the gala about how fashion is art and she she delivered it like she was unveiling some profound new theory that fashion is art. We know. yeah Always been an art form and entire careers have been built on articulating precisely that idea. But then I thought, well, she actually has nothing else to say. She can't say anything because she doesn't know anything. yeah She can't say anything because she doesn't have a point of view apart from yeah I am Lauren Santos Bezos and i want to work my way into being fashionista. Yeah.
00:15:03
Speaker
Number one. Also how derivative of a speech. Okay that's the theme. That's the theme. It's the theme idiot. Say something new.
00:15:14
Speaker
Were there any other guests who you thought were impeccably well styled and dressed? In my you know humble opinion sitting on my sofa consuming this, I do think there was some that stood out to me. Great. We know how we love her. Sabrina Carpenter, I think she I think it was really interesting to do it with the film. I love that she used the film from Sabrina. i think that's such an interesting, i mean, obviously,
00:15:41
Speaker
It's her name's six, so that's fine. But I think that film in and of itself is just wonderful. And to have laundry hat-back reference at the Met Gala feels very fitting. Very fitting. So yeah, full full credit to her stylist, Jared Elner, who has, he just understands the female form and how it speaks to culture yeah and how it speaks with, in dialogue with.
00:16:03
Speaker
culture and I think yeah I think she looked phenomenal she was on theme she was it was so her it was so a little bit flirty it was but it was gorgeously constructed I think Rihanna always nails it yeah right at the end as well were there any others that you loved I liked Alexa Chung's um interpretation of water lilies It was a bit different. yeah Her styling of the dress, I mean the dress itself was quite elegant and minimalist, but then her kooky styling i thought was really cool. I felt like it was a really high standard this year. It was, yeah But of course this Met Gala, as we've alluded has been mired in some controversy because of its sponsors, which include Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez Bezos, his his a gushing new bride to the tune of $10 million dollars people you can buy your way into to cultural cachet what is your opinion on that?
00:17:03
Speaker
Suffice it to say I'm not a fan to quote Cher on the red carpet who also said she's not a fan of their sponsorship I really something sits very uncomfortably with me about the ability in the first place to simply buy into sponsorship of an event like that with no, that I'm aware of, and background in that world or knowledge
Tech Giants and Cultural Events
00:17:26
Speaker
of that world. And I think the kind of tech bro takeover of the Met Garde this year was frankly quite sickening to me.
00:17:33
Speaker
Nauseating is right. Not you again. Zunk, get me out of my face. Why are you here? Zunk, we know you don't care about fashion. It's because he wants to sell, he wants to get into wearables, fashion tech, which is why he was front row at Prada.
00:17:51
Speaker
He's trying to do that. That's his next frontier. Leave the fashion world alone. We don't need you. You're very poorly dressed. You have no style.
00:18:01
Speaker
Somebody lied to you several times and told you that you were fly, hot, sexy and stylish. And you're nothing like that. You're nothing like the sort. So yeah, I don't know about you. It just felt very uncomfortable to me. And I think it was good to see some protestation against that. It was good to see some key figures not in attendance. um How did it sit with you?
00:18:25
Speaker
I hated it. i was really, really angry about this becoming yet another example of big tech's aggressive pursuit of cultural legitimacy and projecting this old world cachet, now effectively underwritten by Amazon yeah money. yeah It's just... ah They're everywhere. They are. There is no escape. It's feeling more and more claustrophobic yeahp by the day.
00:18:53
Speaker
yeah, this has been a trend we've been seeing from these big tech billionaires in their endless quest for this elusive quality of taste. And i encourage our listeners to go and read the original New Yorker piece, which basically said in the age of ai the term has become as much, the term taste has become as much of a Silicon Valley cliche as disruption was in the twenty ten s Vogue itself as an institution has seemed oddly willing to facilitate this transformation yeah of these tech billionaires. You know, that there was sprawling wedding coverage of the Bezos wedding and they get gorgeous, you know, soft focus profile treatment. the The relentless positioning of Sanchez as some kind of glamorous cultural force. Chloe Mal, who is the new editorial director, she was the first person profile Lauren Sanchez in Vogue and she justified it by saying people are fascinated by her. Vogue should be covering with exclusive access the things people are fascinated by.
00:19:52
Speaker
Lauren is a force and she's moving into all worlds and it's been amazing for the museum and for the Met Gala. Firstly I disagree. Fundamentally disagree. No one is fascinated by her. No one is fascinated by her. The most we can quantify any public reaction to her is we're disgusted yeah by her we're repulsed by her yeah if not indifferent if you don't care about this kind of thing perhaps but but no one is fascinated by her yes their relationship has been shrouded in this mystery like oh well they were having an affair and then jeff bezos turned into this new man and all of a sudden he was a completely new guy because of because she he'd fallen in love with her Perhaps that would, I think that would be fascinating for someone else, for another couple. yeah You know, that could be a great story, but it's them. No one is fascinated by them.
00:20:40
Speaker
um So yeah, I don't think that's true. And I think that mistakes visibility for cultural significance. yeah And being omnipresent is not the same thing as being influential in an artistic sense. And sometimes saturation is just saturation. And it remains true that money cannot buy taste. And they hate that.
00:21:03
Speaker
But actually, that's such a good point because underneath this, all is it's something more strategic than just celebrity fluff, just I want to get in and yeah I want to look cool. There is a reason and these figures are so desperate to attach themselves to legacy cultural and institutions because if their products themselves, if Amazon, if Meta, if what whoever, whatever, yeah inspired genuine emotional attachment...
00:21:30
Speaker
or aesthetic admiration, they wouldn't need to purchase this proximity so aggressively. They wouldn't. today They only have to do this because AI isn't cool. Because Amazon isn't cool because they are not cool. And I think they're so painfully aware of that. Yeah, this is just reputation laundering. Yeah.
00:21:48
Speaker
Through culture. yeah An attempt to erupt anti-humanist technologies and monopolistic power in the language of artistry and refinement.
00:21:59
Speaker
It's taste washing. is. It's taste washing. tastewaing And then of course there's there's the persistent rumour that Bezos is actually going to buy Vogue for Lauren Sanchez as a present. Yes. Interestingly, no spoilers, but if you do see The Devil Wears Prada 2, that is a big plot through line that you have this tech billionaire who wants to buy Runway for his new girlfriend. Right. Do I think Jeff Bezos will buy Vogue for Lauren?
00:22:27
Speaker
I don't. I don't think that will happen. I think the Newhouses, who are the family behind Conde Nast, I think they have spent their lives building such an institution. I don't think they need to sell to the highest bidder. No.
00:22:42
Speaker
I don't think they do. So yeah, i I know it's very easy to get quite dumerist about this, but I don't think that will happen. That's just my prediction. Absolutely. I think he'll try very hard.
00:22:53
Speaker
Yep. Hopefully that won't be the case. That would be an awfully sad day. Look at the protests outside the Met Gala. Yeah. The banners we pasted on all of the Manhattan buildings, the the teeny bottles for urine that people were putting outside, protesting the Amazon working conditions. Bezos himself has been ice profiteering. That was a huge a huge thing. So, yeah, i don't think I don't think we will let that happen, but I don't think the new houses will let happen either.
Lena Dunham's 'Fame Sick' Discussion
00:23:25
Speaker
In them we trust. So who else was at the Met Gala? Someone else who was there who I've been looking at a little bit more lately. Selina Dunn. Oh, she is back. With a bold statement, with a new book. She's a great writer. I mean, we only have to look at the show girls to see that.
00:23:42
Speaker
So props to her. Writer, producer, star, creator. I mean, what what didn't she do on that show? All things to all girls. Exactly. But I think, you know, she's back.
00:23:54
Speaker
She has a new book out, it's called Fame Sick, it came out April. She's very candid in it, which I think is nice and refreshing. We know she's a very good writer, so it's no surprise that the book is very well written.
00:24:08
Speaker
It's very fluid, it's prose, it's really funny and also quite moving. She talks a lot about everything that comes with that level of fame. she talks a lot about chronic illness.
00:24:21
Speaker
There's a really moving line in the book where she talks about her illness as not a town that she's passing through, but a city that she now has to pay taxes in. And I think kind of speaks to the permanence of a chronic illness. absolutely face We know that she suffers with like endometriosis. She speaks very openly about that.
00:24:38
Speaker
She also, I think, does a really, really good job. And I know she's a little bit of a controversial figure. And she does a really good job at addressing that in the book. Really? Which I was not expecting. No. So she does talk about the joint statement that her and Jenny Conner previously put out defending one of the show's writers and specifically kind of got me thinking about we treat women who mess up who live public lives and treat men who mess up and that's not a point that she was making in the book at all.
00:25:12
Speaker
She's not trying to make this like a gendered issue or say that she was unfairly treated because she's a woman, but i think just sitting with it, theres there's a lot of kind of, there's a lot to be said about how long we punish women for, for their mistakes.
00:25:28
Speaker
The case of Lena Dunham is really interesting because I remember the discourse when Girls first came out and it was the first time really a non-skinny or non-traditionally skinny woman was seen on screen in a major production, fully naked,
00:25:46
Speaker
having sex yeah and so much of the conversation around girls was about that fact yeah you'd put that now and you'd think just wouldn't yeah would be a conversation um but ah yeah she was really vilified yeah for that for a long long time and whoever says cancel culture is cancel culture isn't real chris brown still has a career yeah cancel culture isn't really real for men exactly russell brand has a career yeah Kanye West. Kanye West. Still does tours in LA. Still does tours in l LA. um
00:26:20
Speaker
And yes, for a woman, the the most annoying thing you can be, ah the the worst thing you can be is annoying. Yeah. Or fat. And they continue to get punished. But do you recommend the book?
00:26:31
Speaker
Absolutely. I think it was a really interesting read. I'm not usually going for memoirs, must say. Me neither. But I think it was really interesting. i enjoyed the kind candour with which she...
00:26:43
Speaker
spoke about her fame. I think that for anyone going through of the things that she has, I think, you know, if you struggle with any chronic illnesses or if you are also in the land light and struggle with what comes with that, it would be really interesting. she also talks really openly about addiction, which I think more and more people should do.
Podcast Conclusion
00:27:06
Speaker
um And I think it's especially hard to hear women's voices.
00:27:11
Speaker
being given space to talk openly about like opioid addiction and things like that. So yeah, I would recommend. You've been listening to Notes Out Correspondence. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please do rate, review, subscribe and share.
00:27:26
Speaker
And we look forward to seeing you next time.