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Managing Client Relationships for the Win
117 Plays4 years ago
What do you think of when you think “Client Experience”?
What is the revenue value of creating a positive client experience? The improvement in project quality with the client?
Sit back and enjoy my interview with Director of Video Production Alex Manning and company owner Steve Jolly of Elements Studio (https://www.elements-studio.net) as we talk about how you can use amazing client experiences to drive your success to new heights.
Here are some takeaways…
- Divide and conquer the relationship when you can. Have one person for creative, and one person for the deal.
- Be sure to set down EVERYTHING on paper in your Statement of Work. This is especially true if the client is taking on something you should be doing but they can’t afford to pay for it.
- Make the first 30 minutes on set completely awesome for the client.
- Make sure to roll straight from Production into Post without a break - don’t lose the momentum.
- Identify your Post milestones clearly in emails as you’re going back and forth on deliverables to reduce creep.
- Overall - OVER communicate with the client whenever you can.
- And finally, how to use the WRAP stage to begin the whole process again and get that next project off the ground.
This podcast brought to you from the good people at Pipeline Video Production Platform (https://www.videopipeline.io). Pipeline is your all-in-one solution to managing the chaos of video production projects from budgets, to schedules, to deliverables and everything in between.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
The End
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Crossing the Axis, the business side of video production. I am lucky enough today to be with two fellows from, I'll let you introduce yourselves. Go ahead. Yeah, Steve Jolly here. Yeah, thank you, Max. My name is Steve Jolly and owner of Element Studio here in High Point, North Carolina. And I'm Alex Manning. I'm the director of video production here at Element.
Importance of Client Relationships
00:00:33
Speaker
Awesome. And these two have been kind enough to, uh, to, to meet with us today, do this interview. And we are going to be talking about, uh, client relationships, uh, which is something that is pretty critical. If you're going to succeed in this, I'd love to just ask you a few questions for our listeners about elements to give them an idea of first of all, just where, where are you located and what kind of work do you do?
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, we're located in High Point, North Carolina, which is kind of considered the triad area, central North Carolina. And we have been a studio for a little over 11 years. And we do video production as well as some photography throughout the Southeast. Awesome. What's the size of your team and what's the size of your annual revenues just roughly to give our listeners an idea of what kind of company you've got there?
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, sure Max. We have 12 employees and we do a little over 1.5 million in annual revenues.
00:01:31
Speaker
Perfect. And I know you also have a really big studio down there, isn't that right? It is, yeah. Thank goodness. We started smaller, but we currently have a 22,000 square foot space with about four different stages with green screen, soundstage, different capabilities. And what's the breakdown of your work? You know, if we're thinking about like corporate, commercial, how would you kind of break it down?
00:01:57
Speaker
I'd say probably 50% corporate, 25% commercial, 25% other. Correct. Yeah. Awesome. Any clients that our folks would know about that you can, I mean, obviously I know some of those relationships are secret, but any clients that you work with on a regular basis. What's the work on the website?
00:02:14
Speaker
Volvo, we've done stuff for Volvo, Daimler, we've done stuff for Haynes Brands, Big Rock Sports, Truist, which formerly BB&T Banking, but their new name. Fabulous. Wow. It's a great enviable roster to have.
Fostering Long-term Client Relationships
00:02:35
Speaker
I'm going to jump right in to talking about client experience. I'm going to ask you, what do you think when you think about client experience?
00:02:44
Speaker
That's a good question. Immediately, let's make it positive. Let's make it positive. Obviously, the journey through the project from the client perspective, how they feel about the project and you, maybe even more so than the project and the company,
00:03:06
Speaker
Uh, uh, but, uh, yeah, yeah, I think it's, you know, it's, it, it begins in the culture side of things and, and, and kind of the expectations of the relationship and, and, and, you know, them looking at your work and talking to you and going, is this somebody I want to work with? And I would, I would probably say too, it's really in your perspective.
00:03:24
Speaker
You know some folks might take a project experience focus versus a client experience with the project focus be much more transactional and short-term versus you know our perspective is always been to look at this even if it's just for now a one-off project that it's really a client experience we're going after to create that long-term relationship so that it's more value-driven versus transactional.
00:03:51
Speaker
So I think it really has to start with identifying who you are as an organization first. Yeah, I've heard a lot of folks that have been very successful in video production say you can throw out all the marketing stuff. It all starts and ends with relationships. Is that something that you've
00:04:11
Speaker
Exactly. Absolutely. I would say we agree with a thousand percent. Absolutely. Like I said, every client that comes to us when we first meet with the max, our point of reference is we always tell them, we're not here to talk about this project alone. We want you to understand this is about a relationship. So the whole point is to understand them, get to know them so that they feel comfortable and understand we're not there again for this project, but to form a relationship with them.
00:04:38
Speaker
How's that working out? How long are your average client relationships, would you say? Pretty darn good. That's something we really pride ourselves on. Our turnover from a client's perspective is zero
Effective Communication and Client Experience
00:04:53
Speaker
to none. I mean, people really like us. They like working with us. I feel like at some point, we've proven that we can do what they're asking for plus, and then it's even more about the relationship at that point.
00:05:03
Speaker
You got to still step it up, got to still make sure you're delivering the freshest, newest, coolest thing. But that's also part of the relationship too, right? You don't want things to go stale. So you put in the work, come up with something great, and approach them about it too, keep things fresh. It's like dating. So really and truly, our retention rate's around 85% to 90% of our clients ever since we started, to be honest with you, Max.
00:05:27
Speaker
And when it's so hard to get those clients, being able to retain them is everything, right? I mean, the process of getting a new client and either pulling them from a competitor or getting them on board and trust you, I mean, gosh, to lose them is such a major deal. So let's talk about that for a second. Before we go into how you create a great client experience, let's just, you know,
00:05:55
Speaker
just rehash those values of what we see, the core value of having a positive experience with your client. Trust 100%. It only comes through effective communication, over communication in many cases. Hey, this is what I'm doing. This is where we're heading. We're talking about the process. We're defining expectations as we go along.
00:06:20
Speaker
It's like any other relationship, you know video production is no different, you know, it's you have to you know, I know obviously Personalities need to need to mash you have that whole, you know interpersonal relationships or side things but but it is expectations and it's set expectations and communications and and when in doubt over communicate until they sometimes have to tell you Hey, you don't have to send me that email, but thank you and that you know, you're in a good place when that's the case and
00:06:46
Speaker
Yeah. And the only thing I'd add is what you said in reference max was the, how difficult it is to get new clients. So if you create that build value into the customer experience, we found we go in and kind of land and expand. We find that it might be a very small, simple project, but by building there and going into the other aspects of the organization, then we're able to really maximize what the opportunities are there.
00:07:13
Speaker
Right, absolutely. On the flip side, what's the danger of having a bad client experience?
00:07:23
Speaker
homelessness. It's a little scary, especially if they're a large client and you don't meet their expectations or you make some major miscommunication. I mean, we're all human, obviously things happen, but it's not good. It's not good because bad news spreads fast.
00:07:45
Speaker
You can't afford it. You can't afford it if you want to grow. And you can't afford, you know, yeah, really, really, that's it. All right, so we've covered the obvious. Now let's talk about the how and and so I'm right off the bat. I'm curious, is it is the client experience something that you you literally sit down and have figured out and and planned out or is it something that, you know,
00:08:09
Speaker
derives from one sort of North Star ideal? How does a good client experience come to be?
00:08:18
Speaker
I feel like it's hard because you don't want it to feel contrived. You don't want to walk up to them every time you see them with fresh baked cookies, their favorite meal, and tickets to the game.
Evolving Client Experiences
00:08:27
Speaker
But at the same time, it needs to be a part of your workflow like anything else. And it needs to come from the right people at the right time, usually after a major success, to that positive reinforcement, or during the dark times,
00:08:44
Speaker
actor dropping out of the project or a major budget cut, you know, just being transparent and honest with them.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'd say. And I would say it's evolved here at Elements. Every experience you go through, you kind of sit back and evaluate. So over time, we kind of see how our clients respond to different things. But it does become something that we strive to make sure that we're repeating every time with the client. But every client is different. So I would say the high level,
00:09:14
Speaker
basic foundational things. Yeah, those are pretty much set and repeatable. And then we just have to kind of play the cards as they're dealt on some of the other parts of the experience.
00:09:26
Speaker
Great. Let's just walk through the process of a production and talk about the different touch points and places where you're able to bring a high level of customer experience for folks. Let's say we're starting with a brand new client that doesn't know you. What are the tactics you take on a first impression, first meeting basis?
00:09:49
Speaker
So I say if you're at the point that you're talking to them, they do know you to some extent. Your website exists, your Instagram exists. There is some expectation set, or unless it's a true cold call, right? And it's like going into that, it's like you need to know what you're projecting.
00:10:08
Speaker
Uh, and, and, and the general, uh, you know, response to that from, from clients, you know, brand new client we're talking, right. And, and, you know, Steve was talking about, you know, about it earlier. It's, it's a dialogue. It's always a dialogue, you know, uh, you know, if they're talking to you and you got to sell your project or, or you're talking to them about a project, it's, it's a dialogue, you know, it's your first date. You got to listen, then you can speak, you know,
00:10:36
Speaker
And just like we all know, first impressions are hard to overcome if they're negative impressions. So you really have to pay attention to, as Alex was saying, your website, how current it is, how clean it is, because they're going to judge you based on that.
00:10:52
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And what do you see? I mean, in those first meetings, obviously, you know, I always found it difficult. You so badly want to talk about yourself. It's so difficult to be quiet and really let them be first and foremost in their product or whatever the element is that they're working with you on.
00:11:17
Speaker
What are some tricks to shut yourself up and remind yourself it's about them? Because I always found that really difficult. Just stuff your mouth with food or a dinner or talk about somebody else. That's a great question. Because you don't want to jump into it, right? I think maybe you have to feel out, is this? Am I still selling myself?
00:11:39
Speaker
You know, or is this, have they chosen me? They like our portfolio and hey, they're going with us and they just want to get to know us. You know, I feel like, you know, it's maybe one of the two, but, you know, their expectation, yeah, it's a little hard to read. Yeah, so we really tried to drive into the point internally that if you don't know them,
00:12:00
Speaker
How can you talk to them about what their needs are? Research. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the research piece. Research come knowing way more, way more than you should about their company and they will instantly, you know, react to it. They'll give you credibility. Right. I mean, we always wind up being the dilettantes of every industry, right? I mean, we wind up learning things about
00:12:19
Speaker
the different industries that most people don't know or have to know. It's one of the best parts of our job is just getting in there and finding out how things actually work in order to make the right video. So I guess that all makes sense. Here's a random question. What do you wear? I was always struggling with this. Do you dress? If you're meeting with IBM,
00:12:42
Speaker
Do you all wear ties? I don't know if IBM wears ties anymore. If you're meeting with finance, do you try to dress to the client or do you just try to dress to who you are? This was something that I always wanted. I'd say if you're meeting with a creative director, you just dress like you do every day. And if it's full suits, then you shoot to match. I mean, be yourself, obviously. But if you're going to go formal versus not, it depends on who you're talking to. No question. Because you show up to a shoot. Is anyone formal anymore?
00:13:10
Speaker
Not really. Not really. I will say, though, depending on the client we're going after, like if we're talking to truest banks, then we kind of take a tag team approach when we're going in for that first meeting or calls, whereas Alex will deal more with the creative overview, who we are creatively, and I'll deal more with the business side and who we are operationally so that they can give an Alex leeway to kind of dress more appropriate to that. I got you. Yeah, right.
00:13:39
Speaker
with, you know, I might just have a dress shirt on or sometimes a sports coat, but it truly is dependent on the client because you certainly don't want overdressed. So they think, oh, this is really going to be expensive. And it really works out too. I mean, I would say that, you know, the people that are more focused on the business side of things, this is a credible place that we can trust. And are they going to, you know, are they going to be, you know, you know, can we trust them with their money? Like they look to look at Steven, they go, yeah, that's the business guy. That's him.
00:14:07
Speaker
We really try to separate, to be honest with you, Max, so the creative can talk creative and they don't have to worry about the financial piece. That's a great point. Why do you do that? And obviously that's something that only a little bit more mature company can afford to do because you actually have multiple people to go out on the call and do all that kind of stuff. But why do you find that to be a value to divide and conquer like that?
00:14:30
Speaker
I think probably because of the personalities that are present with the clients. Some people just feel more comfortable talking about the numbers and talking about the business side of things and the objectives and what they're trying to accomplish. Some people just want to talk about storytelling and want to talk about the visualizations and what you're thinking from a creative side.
00:14:51
Speaker
you know, puts everybody at ease because you're getting... Yeah. And I would say internally from my perspective, it allows the creative team to truly be creative. Now, certainly the budget might drive that scope back down, but whenever we're in the throes of the project, if the client starts talking about something, oh, I'd like to change the scope on this or do this and that, the creative person says, wow, that's amazing. We could do this or that.
00:15:14
Speaker
Let me engage you, re-engage you with the business side so that the creative can be creative without having to worry so much about the financial side. That's almost a whole other podcast in and of itself. Talking about dividing and conquering the workload properly and why there's so much value in it. Let's say you moved on to the budget and the S&W.
00:15:39
Speaker
Let's talk about this stage. So you made that first impression, but now you're trying to lock the deal down. What's the process there? I mean, I never assume the client knows. I mean, this is direct. The agency is going to know this because there's always that client that's an agent and the client that's direct to client stuff. So I feel like know who you're talking to first. Do they have an active knowledge of the video production world?
Communicating Project Value
00:16:00
Speaker
Can you use terminology that they understand? And because a lot of that stuff, we like to drop all those name calls. Oh, shoot.
00:16:08
Speaker
Hey, blah, blah, blah, you know, fist division, but yeah, it's, it increases distrust in a lot of clients. Oh, they're talking about widgets. I don't understand. I don't feel comfortable here. You know, I would say avoid getting caught up in the details and, and, and, and even from the initial meeting, moving into the budget side, continue to sell them on the vision, your vision, right? Talk about what they're getting, not how you're going to get it. Talk about what's so easy to get caught up in the gear.
00:16:34
Speaker
Oh, we're going to have a red or an area Alexa there. You're going to love it. I don't care. The agency sometimes, but you know, sure. And when they're spending the money and they show up on set, like that's a different story. Like put it in that box, have it like beautiful, you know, you know, put their logo on the, you know, the splash
00:16:54
Speaker
You got it. You got it. But at this, you know, from a, from the beginning standpoint, it's, you know, I mean, many of our estimates go out, they have one number and what you're getting, there's not even, there's not a breakdown because that's, that's not, you know, we really do try to push it though. I just want to jump on what Alex said, you know,
00:17:10
Speaker
It's really easy to get caught up in our terminology in our world. But again, going back to the client experience, their experience is that they're not video experts. And so you need to talk about a value that they're going to receive from maybe an Alex, whatever. Sure. So that's where the value is, not the type of gear necessarily. Absolutely.
00:17:34
Speaker
And so they feel like they can appreciate the process without having to understand all the inner workings of it. And if there's a lot of back and forth, and you're talking about, hey, do I include this? Do I include that? And they want to know, like, you better be able to justify going into it why you're choosing to shoot on this, or why a city there is right for the project, because it frees up the camera, because it's more of athletic shooting. You need to have energy in this project. All those things that make sense in the end.
00:18:02
Speaker
OK, so here we get to the thorny ground. At least I always found this to be the thorny ground. Pre-production, when you've maybe trimmed a little off the budget because the client says they can provide a lot of things. And this is a classic negotiation tool. And it's a good one because it shows that you care and you're trying to help them with the budget. But it's a dangerous water. And that is that during pre-pro, let's say that you've promised the client that they
00:18:29
Speaker
the clients that they'll be able to help out, but then they maybe don't help out the way they said they were going to, or they dropped the balls, etc. Yeah, you know, I think from the get go, if you can include it in the budget and do it yourself, yeah, and do it, you know, you know, they're certainly there have been clients in the past that promises something and didn't deliver. I mean, you're
00:18:52
Speaker
you know, very quickly you find out that your project is not their number one priority in many cases, right? And so what it takes to get, you know, the 60 extras that they promised is another full-time job of somebody that they should be paying you to do, you know? So I think, you know, if it seems above and beyond where they're at, you know, or what they can provide, then it needs to be discussed in detail and probably be on paper too, you know?
Managing Client Expectations On Set
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, I just it just it always brought up the most thorny issues when it would be like you all get there and and suddenly there's.
00:19:29
Speaker
just a huge amount of work that, that the client didn't do. And yet you can't treat them like an employee or anything like that. You can't, it's just a, it's a, it's a tough, that's a, that can be a tough, tough, tough waters. It absolutely can. It goes back to what we were saying earlier about the communication and setting expectations is kind of the key, you know, the cornerstone of this whole conversation really. But by trying to communicate that upfront and communicate it in writing,
00:19:57
Speaker
Yes. There you go, Steve. Now you're talking. You get that. It's so critical to have that. So in the S.O.W., you just absolutely crystal when you make that deal. Because people do respond to that, I found.
00:20:13
Speaker
Like if you go back and say, now remember in the deal here, oh yeah, I guess we did say that, we better come through. Exactly. When interviews are people involved, especially if you're interviewing people from their company, never cut hair and makeup.
00:20:29
Speaker
like never cut hair and makeup. You know, that's huge because they're just going to turn around and go, I look terrible. And I'll never, I love that you're saying that because that was something we learned the hard way to get so many times of doing it the wrong way and cutting it because people said we don't need that. We'll come in. Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
Do you really want the first AD walking up to the person being interviewed with a little bit of D-shine? It's like, no, thank you. And two, never shoot on the location of a client. Rather, their home, their specific home. Sometimes I go, yeah, I'll offer up my home.
00:21:05
Speaker
Regardless of what you do, you know what film crews do to homes. We put our tennis balls on those C stands, but it's an invasion. It's always an invasion. That's great advice. That's really, really good. So let's jump to set now, since you bring that up. So set is kind of the fun place, certainly for agency. To me, I always feel like production is
00:21:28
Speaker
is literally why we got into this, but it's such a small part, but it's always the most fun that the day that you look forward to the day, often that your client really looks forward to. So how do you set the stage for that? And how do you give them that, that, that, that singular experience on the, on the day of production?
00:21:45
Speaker
It's it's I agree a hundred percent max. It's like the coolest part like all that work goes into this You know and and it's and it's you know, it's it should be another world and and and expectations should be set from the you know Hey guys, this is how big it is. This is what we're doing This is where you're sitting, you know, you can get your you know food here whatever if they're not used to the set environment but but I feel like it should there is something magical about it because everybody's working hard and
00:22:08
Speaker
for a single goal that includes the client watching it sitting there you know feeling it out seeing the magic happen and and i think that you know that is what since you you commit and the pre-production can be can be. You know covered up in the experience right it's it's it should be it should be a good experience you know it should be a good experience yeah.
00:22:32
Speaker
Plus, I think sometimes we've seen where we haven't clearly discussed with the client when they come on set as to what they're going to experience that day. They're asking questions about, well, when are the talents going to be here and this and how are we doing that and when's lunch? And so just right up front to kind of walk them through the set, explain the day, what they're going to be seeing, what's going on, because we just assume
00:22:56
Speaker
Oh, they know the process. They don't. And the more questions you remove up front, then the less questions and issues are on the back end. Absolutely. And I mean, one thing that I always notice is that the first half an hour is critical and lunch is critical, but
00:23:14
Speaker
After the first half an hour, once it's like, it gets really boring, really fast for folks. I mean, yeah, they'll watch the monitor, but there's only so many times you do 17 takes of someone moving their hand that people just start to get on their phone. And so really that first half hour is just, if you set the tone well there, you're kind of golden as long as lunch is good. A hundred thousand percent. And I completely agree. And, you know, I think, you know, I think they need to see the money if there's, you know, if they're spending it.
00:23:42
Speaker
you know, show them the big jib and make that you know, take them to the camera. I mean, you don't have to continue to quote unquote sell it's you know, you're going it's we're moving we got things to do. And in those frazzled moments that we all experienced on set, I just think it's if they can look at you as a director, or look at your director and see calm and see a plan that a good client isn't going they're going to suggest they're going to whisper in your ear, but they're not going to react like you know, you know, like everything's on fire.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's part of it. Production is all about that.
00:24:16
Speaker
And I would say it's always a fire. But how big a fire it gets is, you know. And just the critical part of that is that is how the crew themselves, before we ever get started, in our initial meeting, as the day starts, make sure everybody's clear, understands. And if there's an issue, it's whispered or communicated. It's not out loud. So that that confidence Alex was talking about, the client sees that through the crew. And so there could be a problem going on that they don't have a clue about.
00:24:45
Speaker
And have them have them have a have a per point person, you know, have that they need to be talking to one person about any issues they have with what's going on or what's being shot. Like, you know, they a lot of a lot of clients instantly become directors if they feel a sense of something's going on. It's like, wait a second, you know, you don't want that in front of your crew. You don't want that in front of you just don't want them to have to do that. That's what they're paying you for.
00:25:05
Speaker
That chain of command is absolutely critical. The set of kit is critical and all that kind of jazz. So moving on to post. So I personally find this to be, you can have everything go so, so well.
00:25:21
Speaker
And even the first draft comes out. And it's great. And they love it. And yet, somehow, everything falls apart in post because of all the back and forth. And how do you manage that part of the experience? And also, you get scope. The scope creep invariably comes in during post. But the more visual effects you get, obviously, I don't even want to get individual effects. Let's just assume we have a shoot here that has not got too many visual effects.
00:25:49
Speaker
but let's just say like we're talking about something that is fairly straightforward how do you keep post on the rails and the client feeling heard and understood. I think you know most production companies and we did in the beginning you know you get through production.
00:26:06
Speaker
And you want to take a little bit of a rest, right? You don't necessarily hit the ground running right after.
Handling Post-Production and Scope Creep
00:26:11
Speaker
And the best thing you can do is send them polished up dailies if they're not asking for it. Yeah. Hey, this is looking great. Yes. Yes. I'm loving what I'm saying. You did a great job on your interview, etc, etc, etc.
00:26:25
Speaker
Could be. Could be. Yeah, exactly. Whatever they see, obviously, you know, make sure it's a pretty part of it, you know, and that it's polished up, you're not sending them, you know, C logged out, you know, weird stuff, flat images or anything like that. But I would say that don't don't fight the urge to pause the dialogue, roll right from production into post. Just don't that gap, don't let that gap happen, you know, from the rough to the to the to the fine cut from the fine cut to the
00:26:49
Speaker
Final, I mean all those sort of, just keep the conversation going. Keep the conversation going. And keep them updated even if it's not a real update. And there, and editing's happening. Hey, just got through the second session. Up to a minute and a half. Looking great.
00:27:04
Speaker
You know the post process silence is the enemy you definitely told that communicate and communicate and you use good no i i i i i i i i i i agree with you max it's the most nervous part from a yes perspective did we do it like did we.
00:27:20
Speaker
is it is this going to be successful i felt like it was successful right you know it so anything you do that well that. Have you moved to using like frame i o or video or something like that to do reviews and that you know to help the client be able to get more involved more easily it seems like there's a lot of good tech out there to.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think two years ago we started using Frame.io and it saved them so much frustration. Hundreds of hours probably from our perspective from an editing standpoint. I think the goal for Post is a little means a lot. Just making things simple for them to do. If they can hit spacebar and write down a comment and then the team, that's so much better than these email threads.
00:28:04
Speaker
I mean you remember those it's just never ending email threads of feedback that didn't even have time codes it's like sure you know that's that's an hyper linking back to you know the next email you send like don't have them search back through for the link you said.
00:28:19
Speaker
Hyperlink the newest one too. But how do you navigate the scope group? You had five reviews in the contract, and you're on their seventh, and you're not really wanting to get to... How do you work with that? What are the methods of trying to ease the client back into reality? I think a big part of it is identifying what makes up an assembly cut. What a rough cut. Okay, no more chronological changes past a rough.
00:28:48
Speaker
Okay, no more chronological, you know, no more, you know, no more, you know, major B roll changes past an approval cut, you know, everybody kind of has their own, you know, sort of, you know, phase of post production, you know, but like, I think it's like, hey, if you go back, if we're three fourths of the way in, if you're going back and changing major chronological things, chronological things, things that really, really, you know, could affect the edit.
00:29:07
Speaker
it needs we need to talk about money and usually from our usually it's just hourly it's just beyond that you know we it's we're usually agreeing on a price and knowing that we can do it within a certain amount that's what the client is you know has been told and that's what we're communicating yes that it's just how much time it it is extra
00:29:25
Speaker
And it's really, really about positioning too, because the client starts to ask, as Alex said, we define it upfront, they understand it, which we keep them abreast of where they are against those. That's critical, Steve, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but if they didn't say we, you know, keep pushing about that, from from the creative side, we say, absolutely, we can do that. Let's talk about what it will cost to execute that above. Sure, sure. And we found that, go ahead.
00:29:52
Speaker
No, I'm just going to say that usually short circuits the conversation, brings it back into scope, or then at least you're going to get paid for the creep that you've experienced. Absolutely. We found that when we started prefacing edits with what the edit was, and we just use boilerplate chunks that we wrote up for each stage of it, that we'd have our editor ship with the edit. And it really helped a lot to give them clear, you are here type. Right.
00:30:22
Speaker
And we find that that really, really helps them to stay within the lines. And also, again, going, Steve, back to something you said, back to that statement of work at the very beginning and making it really clear what the editing process is
Beyond Final Delivery
00:30:39
Speaker
going to look like. It's kind of like good fences make good neighbors. A good statement of work is kind of at the core of so much of a good client relationship, right? Exactly.
00:30:49
Speaker
It just gives the parameters to constantly, you know, people, we're doing business here. And that's the thing. People want business to be clear and straightforward. And the more you do that with that clear acid, Debbie, it just sets that tone throughout the entire operation. Totally agree. And I feel like the, you know, the communication side of posts too is tell them what you need from them. I hate
00:31:14
Speaker
I want you to look at the chronological aspects of it. What are your ideas on tone? Not just what you think. Tell them what you're looking for. Do you like the music? Do you like the tone? Do you like the way this was portrayed? All the things as you're editing, this is the editor to the client directly or through the director.
00:31:38
Speaker
all those things that you're kind of thinking, oh man, you know, maybe this is to this or, you know, this, like communicate those to them because they will give you those answers and then they'll feel like they're a part of the process instead of looking good is great, but it's scary because of that ING. It's like, well, I'll wait for the, I'll wait for the approval cut and then give you all my feedback.
00:31:59
Speaker
All right, so let's assume you made it through post. He somehow got through all this. You're finally wrapping. Are you done? Is that it? How do you wrap it? Yeah, the wrapping is really just the next beginning phase of the post relationship. And I don't mean post production, but the post project phase. So we've really looked at it, Max. That's the opportunity for us to really connect with the client to create that next project. Because if they're pleased with the project you just delivered,
00:32:27
Speaker
then hopefully you've learned something about that account, what their needs are, whether it's for social media related assets or whatever. So you've now got that next conversation to have. And so we really, the RAP starts the
00:32:44
Speaker
ongoing communication piece and not stalking them or harassing them, but really just in a timed, maybe once every quarter, if you see an article that's related back to what was important to them then, you're emailing to them and just keeping them abreast that you're there and we're thinking about you and trying to be a value-added partner.
00:33:07
Speaker
And so that's going all the way back to client retention. I think that probably helps client retention more than just about anything, is you don't become a silent partner. Yeah, you just reminded me too, Steve, of something during the shoot that, again, on set, it's a wonderful time.
00:33:28
Speaker
if you do have that division of work where say you're more the business person but you drop in on the set and it's just often it's a great time to talk about hey you're kind of bored sitting here and I'm kind of here and why don't we talk about some new stuff coming down the line. It often can be a really nice moment to just or just instead of really just say what do you got going on? What else are your problems?
00:33:54
Speaker
And on set can just be a wonderful time. They're in such a good mood almost normally. They're in such a good mood and it's really fun. And they're seeing your incredible team out there just killing it. And that's what is amazing, right? Watching your guys just crush it and move smoothly like a SWAT team. And suddenly, hey, what else? What are your problems right now? And that's just another wonderful time. And then when the wrap comes, suddenly you have
00:34:22
Speaker
Hey, remember that stuff we talked about on set? Let's, you know, let's get back to that. You know, that can be a really nice, again, the division of labor being critical because you're not the director. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Usually when he's talking to the client about that, we're trying to fix something on set.
00:34:38
Speaker
That's the way it works. The redirect. Just go, go, go. I think the two, I think it's from the standpoint of they're on set and whatnot, too. It's a great opportunity. I don't think you should ever, ever on set talk about things that didn't happen.
00:34:54
Speaker
you know, the things that you wanted, like, obviously, that's a very negative outlook. And I think in the same way, time passes and and the project, you know, is released and whatever. And then you can a little better that you, hey, you know, why don't we do this? Why don't we do that? But I think as a rule of thumb, you know, you don't want to talk about what they could have had at any point past that past that pre production process.
00:35:17
Speaker
Those are dead those things are exact those are dead and bring them back in another form and another project another Project right by throwing them throwing hey, you know, maybe their competitor comes out with something. Hey, do you check this out? I love the way this looks or hey, you know that you know any of those sort of things like where you're thinking when they're they're focused on something else but between projects you're thinking of the next thing for them that's you know, that's they're paying an agency for that too and and and even a production company straight to client and we're to an agency to you know Just the fact that you're thinking of them between it is is important
00:35:47
Speaker
Yeah, and I would just add one more thing about when we wrap. A lot of times when we send that final deliverable, mentally, we've signed off on it psychologically. I think it's important to remember that at that point, the client then has to start some of their work to get it put into the right platform, set up. So for us to reach back out a week or two later and just say, hey, do you need any help on formatting or whatever you need to try to get this out to the distribution you need?
00:36:17
Speaker
I think it's just a value add, and it's a low cost thing from our perspective to do, but it'd be very important to the client. Yeah, I'll tell you, I lost a client one time because I started charging for all that stuff at the end. And it was what I thought, yeah, they're taking my time to do this and everything.
00:36:37
Speaker
And it didn't work out. And I wish I would have taken the more generous approach. And I learned the hard way to exactly what you're saying, Steve. It's no big deal for us to hit a couple extra buttons and output it in a few different formats or crop it just a touch or do whatever it is. We're not talking full different deliverables here, but we're just talking about little things for spec. And now ever since then, I learned that, boy, you just gave up $50,000 for $300.
00:37:05
Speaker
Exactly. That can be real dumb. That's not a relationship, right? If you're looking for the, yo, you do something for me, I do something for you. Do we really want to have those relationships?
Team Alignment and Client Relationships
00:37:20
Speaker
because it just means whoever comes in cheaper next time will get the budget. Sure. And you have a chance to end this round, so to speak, on a generous note. So last thing, so you folks are obviously the bosses of the organization at Elements, but how do you pass this through your organization? Because I think they're going to have interactions with your editors. They're going to have interactions with your grips. They're going to have interactions with folks that are going to be outside of your control immediately. And so how do you ensure that they reflect
00:37:49
Speaker
what you want from element. You share those positive and negative experiences with your staff and your crew. You talk about, hey, so-and-so just came in, and they said that was one of the greatest videos they've ever seen. And that we just held themselves $12 million worth of blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, you share those because it hypes people up. It adds purpose. And that's what we all live for on the creative side, I think. That feedback is more important than the paycheck half the time.
00:38:17
Speaker
And that's exciting. And obviously, depending on who it's coming from, if they're super creative, obviously, you see the objective. If the objective is one and we did what was asked, there's that sort of
00:38:32
Speaker
you know, excitement and fulfillment. And on the creative side, if you know someone so solid and then it was passed over to a different creative person and another agency, you know, there's that growth sort of like, how many people are seeing this? What do people who are like minded say about my work, you know, it's like an artist creaking artists, you know,
00:38:51
Speaker
And it's a little bit of a challenge too for us because the team here direct employees, but then when we bring in freelance, you can do everything you want to with direct employees on seminars, training, whatever. So from the day of trying to have that
00:39:08
Speaker
meeting, the pre-meeting before the actual production takes place so that everybody's on the same sheet of music, explaining to the client what's important, what the opportunity is for future with them, and being able to hopefully get everybody on the same sheet of music for that. Do debriefs. Do debriefs after projects. I know it's easy to roll into the next one. Talk about what was done from a client experience. Look, it just has to be part of the workflow. It just has to be part of the workflow. It does. Absolutely.
00:39:35
Speaker
It's not something you can just do afterwards because you'll never do it. Unless it's on that checklist, it's less you were clicking a button and going, did I get feedback from the client or have they approved this or did we send that initial follow-up email? Initial follow-up email on your workflow right after rough cut sent. It just needs to be a part of it. It's a push button thing and it has to be worked in somehow.
00:40:00
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's exactly right. You know, it's so funny. Thank you, fellas, so much because this just coming off of this, I just can't help but think, wow, this is just the core of everything. I mean, it is truly the core of everything. It's, you know, we do so much. A good client relationship is the glue that just holds the whole damn thing together, isn't it? Absolutely. Yes, it is. Absolutely. You know, that's how the stars align.
00:40:27
Speaker
And you get the project, right? And it becomes incredible, and it becomes bigger than it ever was intended to be, is when you have the trust of the client, and they have trust in you, and it's just, hey, let's actually communicate. Let's actually make this as good as we possibly can. And that's where you get the greatest creative freedom on our side, and they're in their pocketbook a little bit looser as well, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:56
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely. It's the beginning and the end of it all. So this has been a great one to do with you, fellas. And I cannot thank you enough for your time and your expertise and all. So thank you so much. We're out of time, but hopefully this has been as enlightening for our listeners as it has been for me. I really, really appreciate it. And anything you want to end with or any last thoughts that we might have missed?
00:41:25
Speaker
I think the common thing through it all, Max, was for us, it's communication and setting expectations. Everything else just falls around that. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you, Steve. Thank you so much, Alex. We appreciate it. That's Elements video. If you guys want to shout out for your URL or anything like that. www.elements-studio.net. Elements-studio.net.
00:41:50
Speaker
And they're in North Carolina. Do they still call them Akalaki? Yes, they do. Yeah, they do. Oh, yeah. They're called Akalaki. North Akalaki. Okay, if they're not Appalachian, they're Appalachian. Let's just get that right. All right. Thanks very much. Thanks, Max. Bye.