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America First - Free Speech (Part 5)
20 Plays24 days ago
In Part 5, and the final installment of our America First miniseries, Paul and Dustin discuss why Free Speech is an important dynamic to the spread of the Gospel.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and MAGA Principles
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome in into Entering Pilot. to The podcast, Dustin Meadows is here. Glad to see you. Glad to be back. And we've been talking about the five planks of MAGA. i don't know if there's a better title for it, but that's we've been talking about. and America First. America First, yep.
00:00:29
Speaker
I don't even remember the other... Planks. so What was what was one them was none of these ridiculous wars? Yeah, no more endless war endless wars foreign intervention, real jobs in the economy. That was another one. Yeah, it was um It's okay. Yeah, it's America first. Yeah was our was our was our first one. Yeah, and um the borders. Oh, yeah. Yes. Secure border security. Yeah. yeah Well today we're gonna be talking about free
The Role of Free Speech in Politics
00:00:55
Speaker
speech. Yes.
00:00:56
Speaker
One of the things you might remember back in I guess probably all three, but at least two campaigns. um Free speech was a big one. One of the things going on, it seemed like President Trump himself had been censored from social media to certain social media outlets, right? and Something like that. He had had his Twitter account taken down. And it was still Twitter then.
00:01:20
Speaker
Yeah, right. There you go. There you go. It was before it went was excellent to X. That's right. So anyway, free speech has always been a favorite subject of ours. So this is it's easy for us to talk about. We'll be talking about this in the future from different standpoints, no doubt about it. Yeah, we're not too far into this podcast, and you may already be figuring that out because we kind of touched on that in our Joked Awoke episode as well, i'm talking about free speech. But we're going to get a little more, yeah a little deeper into that hopefully
Individual Rights from a Christian Perspective
00:01:49
Speaker
yeah today. That's right.
00:01:50
Speaker
And we'll start off by just some general principles that I think we should agree with. And they're i I do believe they're rented they're they're rooted, as always, is where we're coming from in a Christian worldview. yeah But we're going to get more specific with some Christian history.
00:02:04
Speaker
okay And again, not exhaustive, because... There's so much that that we could touch on, and and we do want to talk on this over and over again. But one of the things we said in a previous context is this this issue of, you know, we're connected to communities and structures larger than communities. And, of course, from a Christian worldview, we're created to be in community.
00:02:32
Speaker
And that's another thing we need to talk about as time goes by. But at the same time, at one level individuals. I mean, every individual stands before God on his own yes or on her own. um So i'm not I can't be saved because my parents were saved.
00:02:47
Speaker
right I can't be saved just because somebody else you know votes. So they say, well, Lord, I vote for that person to be saved. That's not how it works. And so we we often start with ah individuality. and we And one of the things I would start with is individual rights.
Rights, Responsibilities, and Limitations in Free Speech
00:03:04
Speaker
um And again, a lot of folk don't want talk about rights. And I get that. on On the one hand, I've got a dear pastor friend who used to say, well, you have the right to go to hell. That's it. Yeah.
00:03:16
Speaker
yeah know and And that's true when you're talking about a sovereign God. I can't make any demands on God whatsoever. Correct. yeah But? Yeah, by by our very nature, we don't stand before God and demand any rights. yeah But as our American Constitution ah affirms, we are endowed by our Creator. He has given, out of His goodness, He has given certain rights to individuals. Yeah, that's right.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah, and and again, like I said, we could talk about that if for more than one episode, but we'll just say this on the way to where we're going today. If you think about something like um thou shalt not murder, well, there's an implied right to life right in the and that thou shalt not murder. Sure. So...
00:04:03
Speaker
um but nevertheless i can't demand anything from god but as you said he's given us rights and one of those is self-ownership and so i have a right uh to be my own person i have a you know the old the thoughts that come from my mind the religious opinions that i have e etc those belong to me and you know we we should be able to not only have those thoughts but be able to express those thoughts without interference from others. Now, there are some caveats that even we Christians would put on that, and probably even certain certain of your most staunch libertarians. but And we're not here to talk political philosophy per se, though it's certainly going to be part of the political conversation.
00:04:47
Speaker
But nevertheless, we're individuals, in and and we'll come back to that from and use more biblical language before the end of the broadcast today. okay But I think that's the first thing I'd lay on the table.
00:05:00
Speaker
And I guess one of those caveats would be... I ought to be able to say anything I want to say um without interference from the government, just by way of example, except I can't i can't say something that would actually lead to harm. you know we all the the The most famous example would be you can't shout fire in a movie theater. Right, right. Because now you're putting others in danger, panic, people trampling over one another, that kind of thing. Yeah. um
00:05:32
Speaker
All rights also have responsibilities yeah as well. And so to exercise one's right ah means that you are going to take the responsibility for the repercussions that may come from exercising your right.
State Power and Censorship
00:05:48
Speaker
yeahp um And my rights don't have they don't have the permission, I guess, to infringe on your rights. So if I shout fire in a crowded theater and am now endangering the safety or the lives of others, then I am now violating their right in that sense. yeah So that's why we can't abuse it.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's exactly right. um And it is interesting just in our current situation, you know, well, I don't want to get too far afield, but there are some people who might say, well, if I want to make a political point or if I want to you know, if I feel like I'm oppressed, yes, I can shout fire in a theater or I can get a mob together and go, I don't know, ransack this grocery store or or whatever. And we're seeing that.
00:06:41
Speaker
But no, you have a complete... You have breakdown of the rule of law. You have a complete breakdown of what you just articulated, my rights in where your rights begin. And um they would say, well, you know, whatever. and And we're like, well, you're operating from a different worldview. You think might makes right.
00:06:59
Speaker
Right. And that's not where we're coming from. And again, um i guess our family documents talk about ah the right to cast off a tyrannical government, but that's a very different thing than just the wanton destruction of private property. Right. Or the, you know, the, just the terrorizing of the citizens, you know, with physical harm of some kind. So, right.
00:07:25
Speaker
I always tend to go down these tributaries and paths because i think, well, what what about that what about that? Because I know folk have questions. That's why we'll we'll talk about these things in the future. But I think just moving on very quickly, the whole issue, you know like we said, we're we're individuals and you know i have my own thoughts and and I want to express those. So I want to engage in the marketplace of ideas.
00:07:47
Speaker
I want to have a conversation with folk and I don't want to be you know beat up for it, so physically speaking. um at the same time, especially by the government. And so umm um I'm one of those, and and not all Christians are like this, but I'm one of those very, very leery of the state.
00:08:04
Speaker
And I'm leery the state for two main reasons. Number one, my understanding of state power comes from my understanding of really how the state is is presented to us in in the Bible. There are going to be lots of people who disagree.
00:08:22
Speaker
don't know. And again, we'll get into that another time. But I think a lot of Christians, though, are very leery of the state because the second reason is throughout history, we've seen how the state arrogates power to itself and and oppresses people in a number of ways.
00:08:35
Speaker
And I think a lot of folk today have wakened up of what have been awakened to the fact that. even our own government has and we've talked about this before has lied to us over and over and over again right and they're they're more interested in lining their own pockets than they are um protecting the citizens and upholding the constitution and doing the things that they've sworn to do they've they've just put themselves in positions of power because they can they can they not only control you know the purse strings in in those positions but like they control everything really if you think about it so Yeah, I mean, I think it's very interesting, ah like you said, that we have pretty much all of human history
Marketplace of Ideas vs. Government Intervention
00:09:18
Speaker
ah as proof that governments will use the realm of ideas to control people. yeah Propaganda is something that has been around since the earliest civilizations. Right. um To where if the state, if those in power can control what you think and say...
00:09:40
Speaker
then they can keep you under control. um And so that's why we want free speech because we want to be able to fight back in the realm of ideas and thought and speech. That's right.
00:09:52
Speaker
That's right. We can't, well, we can't take up arms. Right. um I guess if it's absolutely necessary, maybe. There may be a time but when it's necessary, yeah but generally speaking, no. Just because you say something I don't like, I can't take up arms against you. Right, right.
00:10:10
Speaker
um But in the in the realm of ideas, you have that ability to to push back. And again, as Christians, we want to do that in a respectful way, in a Christ-honoring way.
00:10:20
Speaker
um But that is... you know, we we've talked about before, are the weapons of our warfare, are mighty for pulling down strongholds. That's talking about the realm of ideas. It's talking about the spiritual realm and and things that people think and believe. Yeah, that's right.
00:10:37
Speaker
And so when you think of the state, if they start controlling speech, Well, in in a lot of times we might be in in favor of what they're they're controlling, at least just from ah a preferential point of view.
00:10:50
Speaker
And then there are other times we wouldn't be. So that's the question. Well, who, you know, who decides what's proper speech and what's improper speech? Sure, sure. and And it's better to let, um,
00:11:03
Speaker
the marketplace itself, the marketplace of ideas, handle that because we can engage in meaningful dialogue, meaningful debate, right and good ideas, Lord willing, will will rise to the top. Bad ideas will come in and out of favor. um And again, God's sovereign, and then sometimes bad ideas gain sway.
00:11:24
Speaker
bad idea A lot of bad ideas are holding sway in our culture right now. Sure. But there's certainly, as you say, it's it's part of the propaganda machine, so there's part of that. And we're going to talk about that and put a couple of terms on the table that address that issue. Yeah.
00:11:40
Speaker
You know, who's goingnna who's going to police the state, as it were? Right, yeah, which is why we're against censorship, because censorship only benefits those who are in power yeah at the time. That's right. Because I remember back in the 90s, there was, you know, we had...
00:11:57
Speaker
ah Republicans in the White House and, you know, more conservative government, you know, in the early 90s were coming off the Reagan years. Bush was in in office and Vice President Quayle.
00:12:09
Speaker
I remember he made this big public push about a TV show um about Murphy Brown. And it was about a woman who had a baby out of wedlock and how shocking and, you know, and wanted that taken off air.
00:12:23
Speaker
And it was funny because, know, the liberals at the time were pushing it back, pushing back against censorship. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because they said, you know, it's free speech. We should be able to yeah display that if we want to.
00:12:37
Speaker
And like you said, we want the marketplace to determine that. So if, if nobody wants to see that kind of stuff, they just don't watch it. Yeah. And then the ratings tank and then they take it off the air. Right. But we don't, just as we don't want conservatives censored now,
00:12:55
Speaker
we we We don't want censorship from either side because, again, it only benefits those who are in power at the time.
Should Government Restrict Anti-Christian Speech?
00:13:01
Speaker
And power is always going to change. yeah And so we want, ah like said, we want the free market to determine what people want to hear and or will accept to hear and not the government telling us what we can and cannot say. Yeah.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, um you know, we don't know the different ideas that folk hold, the different people that are listening to our broadcast.
00:13:29
Speaker
And I know there are a lot of Christians um who would disagree somewhat with what we're saying. And I want to address that in a future broadcast. I don't want to address it here.
00:13:40
Speaker
But, you know, one of the things that you and I would both affirm is that there yeah there's no such thing as neutrality.
00:13:51
Speaker
What do we mean by that? Well, we mean that every every idea that's put forth is rooted in a worldview. Correct. And we know that the Christian worldview is good for society, and so we want a government rooted in a Christian worldview. And I i believe that's what we should be working for. Sure. I think that's a biblical mandate.
00:14:12
Speaker
At the same time, how is that... implemented, what does that look like? Does that mean we're going to say, okay, if we're in power, we're not going to allow speech that would you know not square with the gospel or with a Christian worldview. And a lot of it would say, well, sure, we're not going to allow that kind of speech.
00:14:34
Speaker
And I think both you and I would say, no, because and as we've done this on previous broadcasts, you have to make a distinction between the church and the civil society at large, yeah the church and the state, for a number of reasons, which is why we can't deal with it here. right we want to deal with it in a future broadcast, and we will, because right here we're talking about those five planks of MAGA. yeah and And one of those planks was free speech, which we affirm.
00:15:02
Speaker
And listen, um um I'm going to come to a little, and we are we're going to come to a little church history, if we have time today, and and primarily we'll talk about Baptists.
00:15:13
Speaker
But if you if you go back to ah the 1600s in England, for example, or you go to the Netherlands, or you know, any number of other places, but you had Presbyterians advocating for freedom of religion. You had Congregationalists. In England, they were referred to as independents but became known as Congregationalists advocating for freedom of religion. Baptists advocating for freedom of religion. had other groups advocating for freedom of religion. And it's because you had the Church of England that was in charge and power, and they were coercing
00:15:49
Speaker
ah worship among other things. right You had to um you know use the the Book of Common Prayer, and you had to do your ah worship services in a particular way.
00:16:00
Speaker
ah You had to wear the the the vestments that they required. and Anyway, that could go down the list. And so the point is, even if you say, well,
00:16:11
Speaker
we're we're we're going to have ah a government rooted in a christian worldview good i'm all for it sure but does that mean you're going to regulate every single aspect of of religion and worship and and i don't think i don't know anybody who who would want to do that these days maybe there's some folk out there but for those listening i just wanted to get that on on the table because We don't all agree amongst ourselves as Christians. Right.
Compelled Speech and Christian Business Ethics
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah. And we don't want to turn into the Church of England or go further back, the Church in Rome. Yep, exactly. um the The Roman Catholic Church, because what did they do to those who they called heretics? Yeah, yeah. They put them to death. That's right.
00:16:54
Speaker
That's right. So, yeah, we don't we don't want to put people to death just because they disagree with us. Even if they are genuinely wrong, yeah that's not that's not a reason for us to to put them to death. Yeah.
00:17:09
Speaker
And we we can defend that. Yeah. so and um And we're going do that. But anyway... Do you know why we have notes or why i have notes? have notes because, yeah, they help me to know what I want to highlight, but they also ah keep me from going too far afield because if we do that, we'll never make it through. So that that's the danger for me. So I'm moving pretty quickly. um So so we're we're not in favor of censorship. You made that point.
00:17:38
Speaker
I think at the same time, we're not in favor of compelled speech either. No. Right? Right. yeah So if you think about something well what is compelled speech, well, we talked about political correctness right on a previous episode. That would be a form of compelled speech. Yes. We're not in favor of that.
00:17:56
Speaker
um We alluded to on one of our previous broadcasts anti-discrimination laws, and I wanted to elaborate on that just a little if I could. And again, a lot of Christians are going disagree on on that. We haven't even talked about it. So um before before we get to that, though, I think we all, well, that might not be right either.
00:18:22
Speaker
But we're against, you know, the DEI stuff and, you know, the businesses being forced by coercive measures to subscribe to, well, it's just like political correctness. Or you you look at, what we're in the month of June.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah. So you've got Pride Month. Right. Right? And there are a lot of businesses who have chosen to ah promote that because they think it helps their bottom line. But I also think there a lot of businesses who choose to promote that, not because they think it helps their bottom line, but because it helps their- tax situation. It helps their relationship with the government. Maybe they have government contracts or whatever the case. So now we've got forced speech, compelled speech. Sure. Yeah. And that's as big a bigger problem is lack of, well, it's not free speech.
00:19:13
Speaker
So it's the same thing. Yeah. Two sides the same. You're being forced to affirm something that you may not agree with personally. Yeah. But because you are working for this particular employer or whatever, you're being forced to Yeah.
00:19:28
Speaker
Yeah. So you're being compelled. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. so So the opposite of that would be, um you know, like we talked on the ah the the from woke to joke and back again, i think that's what we called it. Yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker
yeah You shouldn't be um disallowed to say something, even if it's offensive. You know, just because someone's offended, you don't you don't have a right not to be offended.
00:19:59
Speaker
you You do have a right for me not to punch you in the face. Right. If you're just walking by. Right. and Unless we use the theater. You can't yell fire. That that creates real danger.
00:20:10
Speaker
But if I call you a name. Right. just Just keep on walking. Yeah. Right? and And if I do something more than that, then then, you know, call the police. Of course, if you have to defend yourself from, if I'm aggressive physically, I do that too.
00:20:25
Speaker
Anyway, these seem, like we talked about a couple of times before, these things seem intuitive, but they're not. And the reason they seem intuitive to us is because all these values that we've had for so long rooted into Christian worldview. Right.
00:20:39
Speaker
But, but those values are eroding because that worldview is eroding. But with reference to discrimination, I think we, know, we talked about the masterpiece cake shop. They shouldn't be compelled to do business and,
00:20:53
Speaker
with someone they don't want to do business with because it's their business. well I don't think we said it that way. What we talked about was they were being asked to bake a cake to celebrate a homosexual marriage, you know, and and they they didn't feel like they could do that in good conscience. Right.
00:21:11
Speaker
And I think we had said in that same episode, well, we wouldn't ask a black man who owns a cake shop if the KKK guy came in and wanted him to bake a go KKK ah for the KKK rally.
00:21:24
Speaker
Right. We wouldn't force him to bake that cake. Right. And so you force you don't force him, but you do force the the Masterpiece Cake Shop to bake the cake for the gay wedding. Now you're now you're the government's discriminating. Mm-hmm.
00:21:37
Speaker
And so... You know, we have the right to discriminate. That's the point. ah I have the right to associate with whoever I want to or not associate with whomever I don't want to. Now, as a Christian, I'm going associate, you know, i if I own a cake, cake well, I'm not going to bake a cake for a gay wedding if I know it.
00:22:00
Speaker
But, you know, when somebody comes in the the cake shop and just wants to buy a cake, I'm not checking their their religious beliefs or their political beliefs, not even caring about their skin color.
00:22:12
Speaker
I don't care. i i want to I want to sell cakes. and Only if I become aware of something that that's offensive. I'm not going to bake a cake for the KKK rally. Right. Not going to bake a cake for the for the gay wedding. And that's my prerogative. Yeah.
00:22:27
Speaker
You with me? Yeah. Well, you know, that that word discriminate in public parlance has a negative connotation. Right. Because it's been, you you know, anti-discrimination laws and all of these things that we've talked about.
00:22:42
Speaker
Discriminate, if you hear that word in today's society, that sounds like a bad thing. It literally just means to choose. Yeah. I remember... I think this was back in the 80s, so i was I was real young.
00:22:57
Speaker
Okay. Real, real, real young. Yeah, yeah, real yeah. yeah I was old. Yeah. not as yeah Not as old as I am now. Yeah. But there was ah there was a commercial, and I can't remember. i want to say it was for, like, a cat food.
00:23:11
Speaker
Okay. And it was like the fancy feast or whatever. Uh-huh. And they had the, the fruity looking cat and they would serve it in a crystal dish. Oh yeah. And it said for the discriminating palate. There you go. Yeah. And you know, that wasn't meant as a bad thing. and then that You know, this, this cat had a certain taste. Right. To choose. That's right. He wanted to eat. ability to choose. so But yeah, the word discriminate literally means that I can choose,
00:23:36
Speaker
yes or no, yes to do something. yeah yeah yeah And so um we do want that right to be able to make the choice on whether or not we do business with a certain person or or another person. that's right And again, you know a lot of that goes back to us to the civil rights era and you know this discrimination of not wanting to serve black folks um in a restaurant or something like that.
00:24:01
Speaker
And again, we're we're not we're not for that. you know we were're We don't think that you should discriminate someone based on just the way yeah they look. Yeah.
00:24:15
Speaker
um but And again, this gets a little deep and out into the weeds, but but when we're talking about someone who's the KKK person, for example, yeah is not born a certain way, they're choosing a lifestyle or an ideology that we don't agree with. Yeah. We don't have to support that. Right. Same thing with the ah with the LGBT yeah person as well.
00:24:36
Speaker
um Again, some would argue that they are born that way. We don't believe that. Yeah. But ah they are choosing a lifestyle, choosing an ideology, and we don't want to support that. We shouldn't have to. Yeah, no, no. 100%. Look at this. Anyway, sorry about that. um We don't want censorship because we don't want to be um forbidden from telling the truth.
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah. And we don't want compelled speech because we don't want to be forced to
Market Solutions vs. Government Solutions
00:25:02
Speaker
tell a lie. Ah, that's good. You should write that down. I should. Yeah, well, we can we can do that another time. But I do want to go back real quick and and say something about the example you gave, if that's okay. and And I know a lot of Christians don't agree, and that's fine. That's why we're talking. this isn This is like we're entering into the marketplace of ideas, yeah and then we should be challenged.
00:25:23
Speaker
and um Because I learn when I'm challenged. So challenge challenge me on anything. I'm thankful for it. But, um you know, when you had the...
00:25:35
Speaker
you know back in the the day the 60s we'll just go back there the 50s and um there were like certain restaurants black folk couldn't go into white only all right well you know a lot of that of course you had these these laws you had jim crow laws well that's that's part of the problem um is is the laws right and they were they were uh discriminating against black folk but and and in In that sense, they shouldn't. Right. Because there's a there's a biblical discrimination. Like ah most days when I go to lunch, and I'm just using your example, I'm discriminating against all other restaurants.
00:26:16
Speaker
Most days I'm going to pick Mexican. but I like Asian. um there's some things i don't like i'm not going to mcdonald's anymore i love it taste wise but it but it's not healthy not that the mexican restaurant is way more healthy than mcdonald's but yeah you know and not much i can get at mcdonald's uh i mean you got to have the fries and i'm i'm just not gonna do it so anyway but uh Get the government out.
00:26:47
Speaker
And if you do that, well, first off, ah ah like you said, I'm not worried. If I own a restaurant, I don't care what color your skin is. i don't care where you come from.
00:27:02
Speaker
I want you to come in. I want you to enjoy it. I want you to tell your friends about it. and And I want to make some money. Sure. Okay. At the same time, I want to be able to say,
00:27:13
Speaker
I want people to be able to say, well, I don't want to serve you if I don't want to. Sure. um ah But I don't want the government to force that. Right. That's that's where I'm coming from. and And I think um what what, again, wow, that might raise some eyebrows. But I think, again, when you go to these examples like...
00:27:33
Speaker
Well, um a black man shouldn't be forced to serve a skinhead if he doesn't want to. is Is it skin or skin? Skin. Skinhead. Yeah. Anyway, I'm not familiar with these. I'm not. Praise God.
00:27:46
Speaker
But... um Anyway, i um'm I'm getting bogged down. I don't mean to. um Freedom is the issue, but in in every in every instance, they're there are always certain boundaries like not yelling fire. I come back to that in a crowded theater and somebody might say, well, what about what you just said? Well,
00:28:08
Speaker
and And if on the one hand, if you say the black man has got to serve the skinhead, ehi you're saying because you can't discriminate against the skinhead just because he's skinhead long as he's not creating a a problem in the restaurant. and Sure.
00:28:25
Speaker
But if you so if you force the black man to serve him, now you're discriminating against the black man. Right. So. So there there there are. Again, they're good forms of discrimination. They're bad forms of discrimination. We as Christians don't want to engage in unbiblical discrimination, um but there's always going to be some kind of discrimination. right, we've said it. I beat that horse there. and Forgive me. I'm going to move forward unless you— All right, now let's go.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to keep digging otherwise. Oh, one of the things I wanted to mention— um And and this this comes up because of something we were talking about a few minutes ago, too. yeah When you look at the new technological world that we find ourselves in, the digital landscape, yeah right? We were talking about censorship on social media and all that.
00:29:15
Speaker
Well, um a lot of folk are now... I think even the president, if I'm not mistaken, are calling for some kinds, some forms of censorship on social media because now that they're in power, they don't like certain things. Right. Yeah.
00:29:31
Speaker
And they're calling for regulation. And there again, i'm like, no, we just went through this. This why we elected you. And we don't want regulation. We won't. Oh, that's what I was going to say. I'm so sorry.
00:29:44
Speaker
You let the market. ah flesh these things out. And you're never going to have a perfect world. And and it again, the the problem, gosh, I'm on the soapbox. Forgive me, brother. Go for it. I think part of the problem, you do have a lot of of
00:30:02
Speaker
I'm not using this as ah as a um derogatory term, but you have a lot of bleeding heart liberals. I'm i'm rather liberal in my ah classical liberal sense, freedom and liberty. That's what liberalism used to mean. We believe in liberty. yeah Politically today, I'm more to the right than I am to the left. But be that as it may, the the the the bleeding heart liberal...
00:30:31
Speaker
Man, I forgot where I was going. what was it What was I talking about? See, I had one of these moments on an earlier broadcast because there's so much in my head. That's the problem. But um it'll it'll come were talking about censorship.
00:30:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. That's okay. We were talking about how Trump wants to censor certain things today. um Gosh, maybe God didn't want me to say whatever he was going to say.
00:30:59
Speaker
I do believe the sovereignty of God, a man even to that degree, the providence of God. and It'll come back. But no, I don't want regulation of speech. um I think that the the marketplace of ideas...
00:31:15
Speaker
ji Well, I guess that's what was going to say. We'll never have a perfect world. Oh, that's what I was going to The bleeding hearted liberals think that somehow we can achieve a perfect world. Utopia. Utopia. If we can do, if we can regulate this, this, this, and this, then we can get where we went.
00:31:31
Speaker
Not going to happen. Not going to, never ever happen. You know why? Because we live in a fallen world and people are sinners. And so that was going to lead me to say, okay. Okay, even if if we advocate for what I'm advocating for, and I say, well, let the marketplace decide, you still may have certain outcomes that are bad.
00:31:47
Speaker
Sure. Because we live in that that fallen world. Right. And so here's a principle that I'll throw on the table. I'll be quiet. I'll let you address it however you want. I feel like I'm monopolizing.
00:31:58
Speaker
But there's no perfect solutions in the fallen world. oh The only perfect solution is the Lord Jesus and the final state. But um market solutions are better than government solutions. Mm-hmm. I think that's like a, I think that's a law, you know, like a, it's not a spiritual law, but it's, it's a law of the universe. The law of the universe. Yes.
00:32:19
Speaker
Market solutions are generally, maybe, it should I throw the word generally? I i don't, but if you, if if someone's more happy with that, but market solutions are better than government solutions. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I think that's right. And I think that's what we want as Christians coupled with, again, we want to engage in the realm of ideas. yeah And so um we we want to propagate the gospel.
00:32:44
Speaker
So that hearts and lives are changed. And as the gospel increases and more and more hearts and lives get changed, that's going to affect the marketplace.
00:32:57
Speaker
Because as hearts and minds are changed, then the things that people want or agree with, that might be bad. Yeah. That's going to change. Yeah. And so then the marketplace will work its way out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
So we want both. Yeah. We don't we don't want we don't want just the laissez-faire. Right. Just let it be the Wild West. Right. We want the freedom so that we can we can preach the gospel yeah and so that we can see
Christian Values and Societal Norms
00:33:25
Speaker
hearts and lives change. yeah And then those hearts and lives being changed is what changes the society, yeah not force yeah or law.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm to put it this way. I'm going to use an illustration. I don't think it's crass, but it did be, I don't know, lowbrow. I don't know. But I'm like this.
00:33:45
Speaker
ah kept Capitalizing on what you just said, let's let's all throw our ideas on the table and let's see let's see whose ideas win. Because I think my worldview is better than your a worldview. I think my team is better than your team. that's So let's suit up yeah and let's go to war spiritually, ah verbally speaking, like a football game. Yeah. and let's see who wins.
00:34:10
Speaker
And and what i'm so what I'm saying is, we Christians need to trust the gospel right the power of the Spirit, which is what you're saying. right And that's really what I'm coming to. So let's throw the ideas on the on the table and and see what God does. And if God in His providence chooses not to allow us to win a particular day,
00:34:30
Speaker
Well, we're supposed to ce submit to that and not take up arms and start forcing our will. right that That's where you're coming from. That's where I'm coming from. and That's why a lot of my brothers want to I don't know. they would They would do more things by force than I would. And I get it because they're saying, well, the the end result will be good. Well, that's pragmatism.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yep. No, let's let's let's see what God does. So really and truly, it's not much different than the bleeding heart liberals. Yes. Who want the utopia. Yes. so Where we can control what people think and say.
00:35:01
Speaker
Right. We just want everybody to think and say Christian things. Right. But we're still using the same methods. Yeah. And those aren't gospel methods. No. Right. Right. And we know from God's word, we know the end of the story, but we don't know exactly how we're going to get there. Right.
00:35:20
Speaker
Right. And we can't force our perception of how we think it's supposed to get there to to try to usher in that kingdom. Yeah. Yeah. we We do what the Lord tells us to do. Yeah. Which is to to preach the gospel. Yeah. um And again, there's going to be those ebbs and flows.
00:35:39
Speaker
And there may be times when there's great revival and there may be times when we still faithfully preach and it's rejected. Yeah. And we have to, again, as you said, trust in the sovereignty of God, the providence of God, that it's all part of the plan. And we know that ultimately he wins. Yeah.
00:35:57
Speaker
Ultimately, dare I say it, the gospel overcomes. Yeah. But. Again, we don't know we don't know when or how we get there right right entirely. we don't We're not told every step that's going to happen along the way, but we do know how it ends, and we need to trust in that. Yeah, that's right.
00:36:15
Speaker
Let me throw just a couple of buzz phrases on the table okay so that um folk will understand who are familiar with them. And if if folk are not, we're going talk about them in the future, not today. Okay. but But just to put it on table.
00:36:30
Speaker
And they're going to scratch their heads and go, ah I don't know about that. Well, just. Yeah. we're I'm not coming from the post-war consensus. Nope, not doing that. Not saying um i'm ah I'm a boomer and, you know, ah classic liberalism, blah, blah, blah. No, we're we're trying to come from a specific Christian worldview. I think I can argue the point.
00:36:56
Speaker
And we're going to do that more and more as we go along. And I would love to interact with with some of the the brothers and sisters whom I appreciate, by the way. And listen, I appreciate brothers and sisters who are little to...
00:37:11
Speaker
to to Well, I don't want to sound like third i'm not we're not third-wayism. There's another buzz phrase, buzz word. I'm just saying I appreciate my brothers and sisters in Christ with whom I disagree here or there.
00:37:24
Speaker
I'm not talking about people that i ah aren't propagating a biblical worldview at all or may not be genuine Christians. I'm not talking about that. But i just want to say... We are well aware that every public policy is rooted in somebody's worldview. And we want all public policy as Christians to be rooted in a biblical worldview.
00:37:46
Speaker
So what is the biblical worldview is what we're debating. We're not debating whether or not, like, give you example. Yeah.
00:37:56
Speaker
ye We say, well, we believe in freedom of religion. That's part of what we're talking about. And we were even going to come to freedom of religion. Well, we've alluded to it, and we're going to talk about it in the end. We're going to have to save that for another time. We're just talking about the MAGA thing right now. yeah Let's say, okay, freedom of religion. I believe freedom of religion, sure and I can defend that in in a civil society. You know have freedom of religion in in our church. Right.
00:38:22
Speaker
you You got to believe what we believe or you got to go. Right. And we don't mean that ugly. I'm just being plain. All right. So ah is it okay? what i when i Would what I want a Muslim to be able to, you know, freely worship his false God, his fake God here in America because I believe in freedom of religion?
00:38:44
Speaker
Well, the answer is yes. However... Does that mean that I'm in favor of um allowing them to implement Sharia law in certain cities or certain states? No, I'm not.
00:38:55
Speaker
Right. And somebody might say, because a lot of folks say, well, yeah, we can't help that. I mean, majority rule and all that. That's the post-World War II consensus. That's not where I'm coming from. That's not where we're coming from. Right.
00:39:08
Speaker
We're coming from. all the way back to the first episode of this series, America First. right And I think we tried to defend, and I think we did, not exhaustively, but defend, biblically speaking, and America First, um you know the the good of American citizens.
00:39:26
Speaker
And so here we are, we're it we're a nation that that's built on Christian values, And part of that is you want to come and embrace the American dream. You buy into the American way of life and the American values.
00:39:40
Speaker
You don't do that, then no we don't
Free Speech for Christian Evangelism
00:39:44
Speaker
no. We don't want you here, not because of the color of your skin, but because you're going to destroy the values that we're trying to propagate here.
00:39:51
Speaker
So if you want to implement Sharia law, which would go against the law of the land, and don't know, start... i don't know start ah putting to death a ah a woman for adultery or whatever your law is anti-freedom of religion. Yes. There you go. Yeah, we don't have to get into specifics cause I don't even know too many specifics. I know a few.
00:40:14
Speaker
um So i'm I'm just using that i want to throw homosexuals off the top of a building. Right. Right. Yeah. So I just wanted to to clarify where we're not coming from.
00:40:25
Speaker
And um so, yeah, when we when we talk about free speech and freedom of religion, we're we're we're talking about, look, let's just let's just don't let's just don't force speech.
00:40:40
Speaker
How did you speak? You're not even going to remember. How did you say it a minute ago? Oh, censorship. Yeah. We don't want censorship because we want to be we don't want to be forbidden from telling the truth. Yeah. And we don't want compelled speech. Right. Because we don't want be forced to tell lot. Yeah.
00:40:56
Speaker
I got to write that down. You got it, man. I got to write that down because you're 100%. So we probably got to wrap this up, but it but it leads me to at least say, because we started talking about ways that that people are forced in our culture all of a sudden, you got this whole issue of debanking. If you're not willing to say what's wrong,
00:41:17
Speaker
ah deemed by the government to be something you should say, right, in certain companies yeah or or ideas, you you can be debanked. you can if if If they put a freeze, and this has happened, like pay people's PayPal accounts have been frozen because of something they've said or didn't say,
00:41:36
Speaker
um or or the their bank account is frozen. Well, now you don't have the ability to operate. And so now you've got a a compulsive situation right as well as an oppressive situation.
00:41:49
Speaker
And this is more and more um frightening to me with the the the digital age and in which we live. I'm not anti- advance in technology, but i am anti ah the weaponization of the financial system and, you know, financial censorship and all the rest.
00:42:08
Speaker
um Just two other things briefly I just want to put on the table. you You've got a war on whistleblowers and independent journalism. Yeah. Because right now you've got in social media, and this is where most young people get their news from, social media. They don't get it from Fox, CNN, MSNBC.
00:42:29
Speaker
And the folks, the powers that be behind those mainstream media outlets are now... all outraged about independent journalists, and what do they do? They accuse them of misinformation and disinformation.
00:42:41
Speaker
That's bad. Right. Let the marketplace of ideas, let them battle it out and see whose ideas are better. Right. That's what I meant a moment ago. Yeah. yeah And you meant the same thing. Right.
00:42:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, we saw it happen during COVID. Yep. um Where if anyone put out anything against the approved narrative, they were labeled as misinformation. They were taken off of platforms and ye and things like that. yep And we hate that.
00:43:06
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And the last thing I put on the table, unless interrupted you. No. ah in k On college campuses. Yeah. Listen, I, well, we don't like the, what what do they call it now? I got it written down here. Safe spaces, speech codes, free speech zones. Well, you're, you're off in some corner of the campus with your little protests that nobody knows about. Yeah. I don't like that. Let, let the students talk what they want to talk.
00:43:36
Speaker
Laws is not violent. Laws are not infringing on somebody else's rights. Yeah. Um, you you got You got these mobs that come in. Like if a conservative speaker comes into a university, the mobs want to storm the the building.
00:43:50
Speaker
We can't have that. Right. That is not American. It's not Christian. And so my point is, you know, don't even know what my point was. Oh, I know what my point was.
00:44:03
Speaker
let the let Let the kids talk about it. but does The same thing we've been saying before. um And listen, I was... talked about our age. I was born in the early 60s, so I wasn't in college in the late 60s or early 70s, but I was aware, and that was the thing.
00:44:24
Speaker
you know And again, I don't agree with all the everything the college folk were protesting, but yeah I agree with a lot of it. And I didn't like... You know, what happened at Kent State and all that was horrible, horrible, horrible.
00:44:37
Speaker
So I'm saying if if we believe, and and I'm coming back to that Christian worldview, if we believe, you know, that we have soul competency, I'm bringing in a theological term now. I don't think we've, anyway, and and and we I stand before God.
00:44:55
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I don't stand before the king right in an ultimate sense. I stand before God. and and And the king has no right to force me to say something i don't want to say or keep me from saying something I do.
00:45:08
Speaker
My conscience is bound to God. I'm done. God will judge all of us. Yeah.
Invitation to Dialogue and Church's Role
00:45:13
Speaker
um And his judgment's final. hu um And so, again, we want freedom for people to be able to say whatever they want to say whatever they believe, whatever they think.
00:45:27
Speaker
And part of the reason for that is we're not looking for an earthly judge or king to mete out the judgment for that. um Those that that want to espouse evil things that want to espouse things that are against ah God's truth, they'll be judged for that ultimately yeah by the judge. yeah But again, as we said earlier, every every thought, every word is is influenced by a worldview.
00:46:02
Speaker
And the reason that we want free speech is that's we want we want people's worldviews to be able to be changed, yeah and that can't be done by force. Right.
00:46:13
Speaker
It can only be done by the Spirit right through the proclamation of His gospel. That's right. Yeah, and speaking of His gospel, the other day, and this falls in what we're talking about,
00:46:24
Speaker
I said something, i think it must've been a sermon and and one of our members is doing some social media for us. And I think I was saying Jesus is the only way to salvation. Yeah. And we get these positive comments, praise God. Yeah. um But we got a negative one. Sure. The other day. Yeah. And um this person apparently, I'm assuming didn't really believe in God or anything.
00:46:46
Speaker
And i don't know I can't even remember the the comment, but I think they called called us a name or me a name. Yeah. They used foul language, and don't like foul They actually called God name. Okay. Actually, yeah. Wow. Terrible. Blasphemy.
00:46:58
Speaker
And then they they used foul language, which we don't like foul language. But my reaction wasn't, oh, my gosh, we've got to censor the guy or, you know, let's call the law. And your in yeah your act's reaction was the same. We had the same reaction.
00:47:12
Speaker
And I think ultimately it's like, well, you know what? While we might you know pray for the guy because he's not safe on the one end, on the other, it's like, you know what? um we're getting treasure in heaven because ah we're we're speaking the truth. And what did the apostles say in the first century?
00:47:28
Speaker
They were being persecuted for speaking. theyt We're not being persecuted. They're just calling us names. Right, right. Who cares? um But they so they they prayed and they counted, they rejoiced in the Lord because the Lord had counted them worthy to suffer for the name. Mm-hmm.
00:47:44
Speaker
So again, I'm not saying we were suffering, but I'm just saying that that's our attitude. Yeah. and And in in the interest of ah free speech, um I don't know if you heard about this, but someone else from our church replied to that comment and invited them to come to church. Oh, wow. Let's have a dialogue. Let's talk about it. Whoa.
00:48:03
Speaker
Wow. That's what we want. Exactly. i don't know who that was. and then I did not shut him down. We want to talk to them Absolutely. yeah I don't know who that was. That's good. Wow. Maybe they should do the podcast. I should have said that. But anyway, so thanks for bringing that out. Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
All right. Well, I'm done. Okay. You can keep going, though. No, think we're good. putting motorboat myself because I'm just... Yeah, oh no, no, you're good. I think, yeah, I think that's a good place to wrap it up again.
00:48:28
Speaker
ah We want the freedom to be able to, for all people, to be able to speak and to say what they think and what they believe. Ultimately, because we want the freedom to be able to speak the truth, to speak the gospel, um to call others to come to faith in Christ yeah and have their hearts and lives changed. And that, again, that will ultimately change worldviews.
00:48:52
Speaker
It'll change societies. It'll change the world. yep And so that's what we want. That's it. Well said. The Answering Pilot podcast is a ministry of Randall House Church in Greer, South Carolina.
00:49:03
Speaker
You can learn more at www.randallhousegear.com slash church. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at at Randall House Church. Don't forget to like and subscribe, and see you next time.