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Culture Making
14 Plays17 days ago
What is culture? How should Christians relate to the culture? How should the Gospel impact culture?
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Transcript
Introduction to Gospel and Culture
00:00:13
Speaker
Well, we've got another edition of Answering Pilot. Dustin, good to be here. Good to be back again. Yeah, and today we're going to be talking about the gospel and culture. I mean, it's sort of a general theme anyway that we deal with, but...
00:00:27
Speaker
um I think Christians have been having this kind of discussion for years and years,
Different Perspectives on Cultural Engagement
00:00:35
Speaker
for sure. And one of the things that comes to mind just initially and briefly, you got some folk who say the world is is like a ah sinking ship.
00:00:45
Speaker
why polish the brass on a sinking ship? And others are saying, well, no, we've we've weve got a lot of brass to polish for lots of reasons. and And of course, those who would say, why polish the brass on a sinking ship? It's not they don't care about anything. It's just that ah they they they see the gospel mandate ah as as relating to salvation, the conversion of of men, women, boys,
Gospel's Cultural Impact and Niebuhr's Models
00:01:09
Speaker
and girls to Christ. We certainly believe we've got ah ah a great commission and a gospel mandate related to that. But at the same time, we believe the gospel is a little bit bigger than that. it's not just about salvation. It's about something bigger.
00:01:20
Speaker
And so that's why we want to talk about ah Christ and culture, the gospel and culture, um however you want to. however you want to you know name it. Sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah, um yeah i think I think some Christians ah kind of take the view of you know the sinking ship as you described it.
00:01:38
Speaker
you know Everything that we see around us, it's all going to burn. you know And yeah so it's all going to destroyed. so So what's the point of ah of of trying to make it better or make it more beautiful or anything like that? Because it's all just going to burn. Yeah.
00:01:51
Speaker
um and While we do know that that judgment comes, judgment is coming by Christ himself, ah we also believe that he is he's redeeming, and and as you've said, not just redeeming people, um but he's redeeming all of creation. yeah And so um we we believe that um it's important to engage in the culture and in making and shaping the culture because it's going to put his gospel on display. Right. Yeah, that's right.
00:02:24
Speaker
And to your point, we believe that when the Lord comes again, there's going to be a renovation of all things, a renewal of all things. Right. But at the same time, um I think there are a lot of things in this life.
00:02:38
Speaker
however it pans out, whatever it looks like, that will remain in in eternity, in the final state. Again, I don't know exactly what all that looks like, but I think we have scripture that indicates something to that effect.
00:02:49
Speaker
And what we do here and now certainly matters. um We're laying up treasure in heaven, to say the least. So those are the kinds of things that we could point to. but I'm reminded in this discussion of H. Richard Niebuhr. Okay. um yeah You know, I think if you're, you know, when you go to seminary, going have to read Niebuhr. More than one Niebuhr, really.
00:03:11
Speaker
And again, we're not on the same page exactly theologically, but he did write, I think it's like 1951, if I'm not mistaken, maybe even before, but... Somewhere in there. um He talked about, I think I used that term a moment ago, Christ and culture.
00:03:24
Speaker
And again, how should Christians ah react to culture, deal with culture? And he he he gave like five categories in this particular book. We're not going to be talking about his book per se, but just as a Un-on-ramp, if I can put it that way.
Exploring 'Christ Against Culture'
00:03:41
Speaker
But here are the five categories, and and then we'll tip our hand, as it were. i think we've already tipped in a sense. Probably so, yes. But yeah, he talks about Christ against culture. Okay. And those are, yeah you know, basically that model is a culture.
00:03:55
Speaker
You said it. Fundamentally, it's all going to burn up, but also culture because of the faults, fundamentally corrupt. fundamentally sinful. um So to be completely loyal to Christ, we don't want to have anything to do with cultural institutions. yeah You could sort of put the Amish in that category, for example.
00:04:13
Speaker
um you know i don't I don't want to be too, um I don't know, loosely. We'll say loosely. Kind of a separatist mindset. Yeah, there you go. um And a lot of fundamental Baptists would would be like that in in large measure. They're very different from the Amish in a lot of other ways.
00:04:30
Speaker
So Christ
The 'Christ of Culture' Approach
00:04:31
Speaker
against culture. The second would be Christ of culture. This is sort of an accommodation model. okay Essentially, um you know it views the best aspects of human cultures fundamentally in harmony with Christ.
00:04:45
Speaker
um this is kind of the route that 19th century liberals, theological liberals, went went down the road just trying to, you know, merge the church and culture, that kind of thing.
00:04:58
Speaker
So anyway, and no real tension between Christian identity and participating fully in civilization. We think there is a tension. We want to participate in a lot of things, and a lot of things we can't participate in, but a lot of things we should participate in. But anyway, that was the Christ of culture. Thirdly,
00:05:14
Speaker
Christ above culture.
Synthesis and Dualist Models
00:05:17
Speaker
And this is what Niebuhr refers to as a synthesis model, um famously championed by Thomas Aquinas. It holds that human culture is inherently good, but it's incomplete on its own. And so secular culture can guide humans part of the way toward truth.
00:05:32
Speaker
But, of course, we have to um be perfected by supernatural grace. And so I think that just goes too far yeah in in some of those areas. But nevertheless, Christ above culture. Number four, we're going to get through these a little bit quicker. I'm so sorry.
00:05:48
Speaker
Christ and culture in paradox, sort of a dualist model associated with Luther, Martin Luther, um not like Luther Vandross or somebody like that. But anyway, yeah. yeah I don't know why i said that.
00:06:01
Speaker
Anyway, I'm trying to keep my finger on the pulse of the culture, but that would have been... I don't... You don't even know who that is, do you? I do. Oh, you do. I'm sure how many of our viewers are going to know. Well, if we're identifying with Gen Z, probably... Yeah, I'm not sure how many of our Gen Z viewers are going to know who Luther Vandross is. That's sure, but anyway.
00:06:19
Speaker
um So anyhow, views the Christian as a citizen of two distinct worlds, which we we would agree with that, the kingdom of God and the the worldly kingdom, but they are locked in permanent tense conflict. and And again, I think that's pushing the other side of that too far. you know so So this would be like the view of the secular versus the sacred. yeah Yes, yes, there you go. And we'll address that. And I'll let you address that because you brought it up and it's it's really important.
Culture as Redeemable: Engaging in Transformation
00:06:48
Speaker
um And then the last, Christ the Transformer of Culture, which is where Niebuhr himself leaned, and I think we would lean there as well. A transformationalist and a conversionist model basically saying culture has been corrupted by sin, and then his words, but fundamentally redeemable. And again, how far do you push that? But we're saying um culture is not unimportant.
00:07:14
Speaker
Culture should be, we Christians want to create culture. You know what culture is. um it's ah It's a product of values and morals and beliefs and and language and, yeah you know, the shared things. And we talk all the time about influencing culture.
00:07:33
Speaker
Kingdomizing culture is a word we we would use. Gospelizing culture. And so in that sense, some we want culture and society to align with the kingdom of God.
00:07:44
Speaker
So when you use that language and and you understand it the way we understand it, I think that's where we would be. But nevertheless, just thought I'd throw that out in case, you know, somebody's looking to do a little more research or why are we talking about this? This is something that folk have been talking about forever.
00:07:59
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um the again, the culture, that's that's a broad, a very all-inclusive term, um but it it basically is is where we live.
00:08:13
Speaker
um It's where we live. It's when we live. you know um And so it's a very important question for us to to talk about because as Christians, we want to know how do we live as followers of Christ, as citizens of his kingdom, yeah where we are and when we are. That's it. So, yeah, we need to we need to talk about how do we do that in a biblical and Christ-honoring way. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And your language there reminded me of Francis Schaeffer. How now shall we live? And and he would be one of one of those that, again, i would recommend highly.
00:08:49
Speaker
um if you're going to read Between Niebuhr and Schaeffer, read Francis Schaeffer. You're going be blessed. um not that you might not be blessed by niebuhr but i just can't can't recommend schaefer highly enough also uh a lot of our folk might be familiar with ah chuck colson and ah he he borrowed from that title and he wrote a little little book along some lines how then shall we live and he was just borrowing on that title but anyway um when don't we get too academic around here so sorry it's okay But I think that, again, as we segue into just some dynamics of our own or categories of our own, ah we are called to, as you've said, engage with culture, and we're called to influence culture.
Genesis Mandate and Cultural Influence
00:09:35
Speaker
And, of course, we can't just... say that and expect people to believe it. Right. Yeah. And so I think foundationally, we're going to come to Genesis chapter one. And before I get to a particular verse, though, I want to say just listen, we're creating the image of God.
00:09:51
Speaker
And one of the things that that means is that we are to reflect the reality of God. And, you know, God put us here They put Adam and Eve a garden, but after that, of course, you know, the fall and all that.
00:10:07
Speaker
He still had a mandate for them. We're coming to that. ah And... um Yeah, it it it had to do, well, we might as well get to it. with Genesis 1, 28, what did he call them to do? He said, be fruitful and multiply.
00:10:23
Speaker
He said, subdue the earth. He said, take dominion over the earth. So there is a whole lot implied in that one verse right there, couple of verses together.
00:10:36
Speaker
lot of folk refer to that as the cultural mandate. Hello, cultural mandate. Sure. um and And that's legit. I usually refer refer to it as the Dominion mandate, but it's the same thing.
00:10:47
Speaker
Cultivating the earth. I think it means building cities. I think it means digging resources out of the ground to heat our homes. I think it means things like electricity and cars and jet planes and and all the rest. Yeah, um i wanted to I wanted to throw something out, and I don't think I'm good i'm getting too far afield here, but um if if it's off-key, feel free to call me on it. But um the the word culture...
00:11:14
Speaker
um you know Another word for the command that God gave to Adam to tend the garden would be to cultivate it. yes There's that same root word there, cultivate culture.
00:11:28
Speaker
um It's it's to to to work the ground and and and help things to grow. yeah as Scientifically, a culture... is is a cross-section of an environment that you can grow organisms in. And so um a culture is where things grow.
00:11:49
Speaker
And so ah we believe that the Genesis 128 mandate is for us cause things to grow yeah and the earth, not just physically in the ground, but in in the world at large. yeah um And so...
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah, I thought that was interesting. and when i heard When I was thinking about the word culture, you know ah that scientifically, a culture, you put it under a microscope and you see these all living organisms. A culture is where something grows. yeah so we want and that's and So that's why it's a cultural mandate. We're wanting to make things grow. yeah We want to make good things grow. That's right. That glorify him. That's right.
00:12:28
Speaker
And ah I don't know that I've ever thought of it that way, but you're dead on it. I mean, and and cultivate. I'm glad you brought that word out. So, yeah, that's that's exactly right. So, yeah, so we're reflecting the reality of God. We're imaging him forth by cultivating, causing ah things to grow.
00:12:48
Speaker
um Good things, and you you said that. um One of the things that...
Preserving Good Culture
00:12:53
Speaker
And again, we mentioned people that we read. It doesn't mean we agree with them on every single thing. It doesn't mean I disagree with them. i'm just yeah I just throw those things out. But Andy k Crouch talks about culture making. He's one among many.
00:13:06
Speaker
And he talks about, um let's let's just say in our own culture right now, if there are certain cultural goods... um like goods and services. so if there are certain cultural goods that, from a Christian perspective, are good, we would want to work to preserve those cultural goods. yes If there are certain cultural goods, and this would be an oxymoron, ah what we we could call them cultural bads, but if there were certain cultural goods that are not good, then we would want to work to eliminate those. But as Christians who are also called, as you were just explaining,
00:13:39
Speaker
ah to cultivate, we want to create new cultural goods. We we want to engage in culture making because after all, who knows better what good culture should look like than Christians? Now, that's not to say that all Christians understand this, not say that I'm the best Christian, I'm the one who should, you know, put these things on the chalkboard and say, here's what we're going to do. right But I say that because Christians actually believe and cherish God's Word. And God's Word is is what helps us to determine ah what culture should should look like in general terms. um And not to bog us down one more time, but ah again, because we're talking about all of this starting in the Garden of Eden. Yes. Who planted the garden?
00:14:30
Speaker
God planted the garden, right? But then he gave Adam a job. He gave him work to do. And his work was to to work that garden and and to bring it about.
00:14:41
Speaker
And then after Adam and Eve sinned, after the fall, what was part of the curse? That thorns and thistles would grow up. yep And so then his work would be toil.
00:14:51
Speaker
But the good things that God planted would still be growing. But then now these thorns and thistles that are part of the curse are growing. yeah And so, again, i think there's a physical and a spiritual dynamic at work there. Yes. So God god has planted these good things.
00:15:08
Speaker
He's called us to cultivate it and to make it grow in the midst of the thorns and the thistles of evil, of sin that are growing up beside it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think, again, I think it's a reflection of what we were told in the Garden of Eden. ah I think you're right. It's, ah well, what's that meme going around? Adam, you had one job.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah. But anyway, he wanted God's job. Right. to Anyway, yeah sometimes what you're talking about, I refer to it as pushing back the fall. Right. Yeah. yeah Landscaping. Mm-hmm. Pushing back those thorns and thistles. Mm-hmm. Getting that old red clay here in the part of the world where we we live. Trying to, you know, get grass to grow is not always easy, but we do. Anyway, you know what I'm saying. so Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:15:55
Speaker
So obviously, you know, biblical principles behind all of these things. And so um I guess a broad way to to say it is, it seems clear to to me that God ah has given, well, we know that he's given us Genesis 128, and our understanding, if we're right, and I think we are, so ah it's safe to say that culture itself, if you know what it is, is a God-given mandate, a God-given
Inherent Goodness of God-given Culture
00:16:28
Speaker
mandate.
00:16:28
Speaker
So if you say that, then then even though you've got the fall, Culture itself, and see, there's a lot of bad culture, but culture itself is not bad.
00:16:42
Speaker
i would say culture at worst is benign, but in a sense, just the fact of culture that we're to create culture, I would really say it's inherently good because God's told us to cultivate culture.
00:16:58
Speaker
not only the ground, but when he says be fruitful and multiply, that's part of that mandate. It's not just take dominion over the earth, take dominion over the animals, be fruitful multiply. Well, that implies families and and from families, communities and civilizations, et cetera. Right. so that's where I'm getting that from. Yeah. um So anyway, he's he he wants us to fill the earth, subdue the earth. And again,
00:17:23
Speaker
That's why I subdue the earth. You're talking about pushing back the thorns and the thistles, part of it. I mentioned earlier cultivating oil out of the ground. Again, as human beings who have intelligence ah by virtue of God's creating us in his image, it's only part of it.
00:17:40
Speaker
But nevertheless, we're intelligent. And and we add ah we we stand on the past, and we learn, and we learn, and we learn, and we learn. And so ah if if the Lord gives us another 1,000, 10,000 years, I have no doubt that we're going to have um cultivated um energy, energy,
00:18:02
Speaker
whether resources or whether we invent something to help make those resources more efficient. yeah And we've done both, right? Sure. um so So cars, yeah engines are way more efficient now than they were.
00:18:19
Speaker
Gasoline engines are way more efficient than they were. Right. When I was a kid. The very invention of the gasoline engine versus a coal fired train engine. Yeah. You know, ah that was innovation. That's right. um That was it was a good thing. Yeah. You know, um because that's that's progress and that's and that's harnessing yeah more of the Earth's resources as we learn about them. As we discover more about ah the planet that he's put us on. Yeah, that's right.
00:18:48
Speaker
That's right. Yeah. and and And we do continually see, and i mean, we see it right now that there are more advances um and some of them are good. Some of them are going to pan out. Right. That's right. And that's been throughout history. Yeah.
00:19:02
Speaker
You know, we've come up with ideas and we've tried them out and some work, some don't. The ones that don't get scrapped by the wayside. Yeah. Yeah. but the ones that are good and that produce a net good for the society, for the culture, persist. And yeah, I think we're going to continue to see us make improvements in lots of different areas. Yeah, think you're right, 100%. Like you say, it's been happening. And I guess the other part of where was going with that, you know, I always say to folks, well, oil's good. I mean, it's good.
00:19:34
Speaker
Is a perfect? No. We're in fallen world. um Right now, yeah again, i don't I don't study this a whole lot, but I think, you know, if we could ever, well, me put it this way. You said it.
00:19:49
Speaker
We oil gasoline engines are an advancement over coal fired engines. Throw in the wood or the coal in there. Right. On that train, you see these old movies. Yeah. um And then and then gasoline engines are more efficient than they were even even from my day, let alone.
00:20:05
Speaker
you know, the Henry Ford days. Right, yeah, the gas mileage of a Model T versus right a brand new car today. Yeah, exactly. But, um you know, we if if if if electric, forget the political dynamic, if if electric cars become way more efficient, right they're not right now. They don't think they go as far, don't have enough as much power.
00:20:26
Speaker
The batteries are horrible for the environment if you really want to be true to your political leanings. Yeah. Oh, like I'm a conservative. I'm against the environment. Right. No, no, no. i'm not against the environment. God, i we should take care of the environment. Right. Yeah. And that that was what I was going to say. we um When we're talking about harvesting the resources of of the earth, we do want to do that in a responsible way. 100%. And it's not but from an environmentalist or political right agenda. or Gaia worship. Right. it's It's out of stewardship. Yes. Because um in the dominion mandate that we were given in Genesis, we we were gifted this planet.
00:21:09
Speaker
um And God's given it to us, the entire planet, as a resource. But stewardship means we want to responsibly use it and take care of it and and do it in a way that that is renewable and reusable um and sustainable. yeah we We believe in all those things. Sure.
00:21:26
Speaker
um ah But again, some things, and not not to get off on a political rant, but some things that are currently being marketed as sustainable or renewable, like you said, for example, a lot of these electric cars, the batteries that are in them, um ah they they they work right on the front end for your gas mileage. They don't use as much fuel. They don't use as much energy, but they do wear down.
00:21:53
Speaker
They do not last forever. When they go bad, they have to be disposed of. And then when we're disposing of them, like you said, there's a lot of very dangerous chemicals and other things that are involved in the manufacture of these things that are going to end up having a negative effect yeah on our environment. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we, we and and again, that's part of the learning process. Yeah. and so As we've talked about before when we talked about economics, the market can bear out the things that are going to be a net good um versus it's not worth the other costs that may be involved. Right, right, right.
00:22:32
Speaker
And I think, um again, and I and i i repeat in a so a lot, even though I try to say it in a different way, but... um I think we'll we'll discover more and better resources as time goes on.
00:22:47
Speaker
I think because God's put these brains in our heads, we're going to even um figure out how to make the resources we have more efficient. Right. That's kind of what I'm talking
Technological Advancement and Stewardship
00:22:58
Speaker
about. But the third thing, the caveat I'd put on is there's never anything that's perfect this side of the final state.
00:23:03
Speaker
Right. We're still in a fallen world. I mean, you can you can power a lot more stuff, to put it in the vernacular, ah with with nuclear energy than you can with gasoline. Mm-hmm. But there are tradeoffs, right?
00:23:18
Speaker
And in in there again, i think a lot of that is, you know, what we've witnessed with the atomic bomb and Chernobyl and Three Mile Island and all that. So again, these that's part of the reason, as you well know, that some of these issues become political.
00:23:32
Speaker
um And they play on the emotions of folks sometimes, but sometimes, yeah, it's based on what the lobbying groups say, but as you said, I i have a tendency to get too far afield. That's it okay. Anyway, we want to talk about ah fulfilling that dominion mandate by virtue of being created in the image of God, and and that has to do with those things. So,
00:23:55
Speaker
and and and And I'm glad you said what you said. you know we We want to, like just with reference to the environment, we want to be responsible stewards. yes we're not we're you know Part of the environmental thing is is really ah earth worship, Gaia worship, right and and we could do a whole broadcast on that.
00:24:14
Speaker
So, well, we worship the true and living God, the God of the Bible, but he also tells us to be good stewards of the earth. for very different reasons than a lot of environmentalists are, but nevertheless, some it's political, some it's spiritual. Yeah, because again, as we said, and the the earth itself is a gift from God and all the resources that are yeah found in it.
00:24:34
Speaker
um And so ah just like with any gift that we get from God, we don't want to make the gift an idol and worship the gift over the giver. yeah you know So we always want to keep in perspective.
00:24:46
Speaker
That we worship God for all the things he's given to us, but we don't worship the things he's given to us. That's right. That's right. hundred percent 100%. And let's kind of bring it down to the individual now just a little bit because we've been talking about, i mean, I'm no nuclear physicist. I'm no jet plane builder.
00:25:04
Speaker
um i don't even know what you call it. Engineer. But anyway, of of some sort. Anyway, aviation engineer. I have no idea. Me neither. Yeah. So anyhow, but...
Unique Gifts in Culture-making
00:25:15
Speaker
We're talking about everybody being involved in culture making. Yes. All Christians especially.
00:25:20
Speaker
ah Through their individual gifts, right talents, spheres of influence, um things that they're interested in. du Don't you believe, and again, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I believe that um not only does God give each one of us different gifts and talents, and by gifts I'm talking about spiritual gifts, the manifestation of the Spirit, but talents,
00:25:43
Speaker
um You know, can I make a distinction real quick? Some people say, oh, I've got the gift of baseball, and I use that as my ministry because I evangelize people through that meal. Well, no, you have a talent for baseball, and you have evangelism as a spiritual gift. Now, you put them together, powerful. Right.
00:26:01
Speaker
Do it. But just let's understand the terminology. So anyway, um so gifts and talents. um I forgot where I was going with, oh, oh, oh, interests. yeah We don't all have the same interest. right and And sometimes we try to say, well, Christians, you know, all Christians ought to be doing this.
00:26:21
Speaker
Well, not necessarily. Christians in general ought to be doing this, but there are other Christians who are doing that, and Christians in general ought to be doing that. you understand what... Yeah, because all of these different things can be a part of culture. Yeah. um And I think, too, another thing that can happen...
00:26:42
Speaker
ah with Christians when we when we get it a little askew um is we tend to look at certain gifts or talents as more spiritual um and therefore they're they have a greater value ah spiritually ah from from a Christian sense yeah in ministry.
00:27:05
Speaker
And so we glorify those, even maybe not even knowingly, but you know if someone's a preacher or you know whatever it may be, um versus,
00:27:16
Speaker
um we you you talk about this a lot, we've talked about this a lot, um just Whatever vocation, whatever interest or a thing you've been called into, um if if you're a good Christian mailman, yeah that's still ministry. Yeah. um If you're a good Christian truck driver, if you're a good Christian husband or wife, if you're a good Christian father, mother,
00:27:39
Speaker
Um, that's, that's part of making culture, um, and engaging with the culture. Uh, because in fact, that's where it all starts is in the home. Um, you know, we, we would both affirm that the family is the cornerstone of a culture. And so, um, that's where it's got to start. um,
00:28:00
Speaker
If we're Christian, Christ-honoring husbands and wives, fathers and mothers, raising up children who fear the Lord, then right there we are influencing the culture. Because if more and more Christians do that, more and more Christian homes are being raised up, that's going to have an effect on the culture at large. Yeah, yeah absolutely.
00:28:22
Speaker
Let's do a little thought experiment. We didn't plan on this. You you mentioned the mailman. We'll just use the mailman. And again, let's dial it back a few years because we have email now and yeah yeah the phone in our hands. but Somebody has to deliver all those political flyers.
00:28:37
Speaker
Yes. ah so Excuse me. I'm very thankful for that. Yeah. But go go back before the the email. So 1990s. You were around in the 90s, weren't you? I was around, yes. Yes.
00:28:50
Speaker
like So um what cultural goods did a mailman provide for for us? I mean, people send letters. That's good because I can write somebody who lives in California if I live all the way over here on the East Coast.
00:29:07
Speaker
can't Can't walk. Right. And I might not be able to afford to fly out there. Some people can. I mean, but there you go. There's another cultural good. Right. I mean, Adam and Eve had to walk everywhere. Mm-hmm.
00:29:18
Speaker
Maybe he could ride a horse. I don't know. But anyway. Yeah. I'm not sure when horses were domesticated. Yeah. You'd have to domesticate him first because that fall. i wouldn't Yeah. I wouldn't go hop on a wild horse. No. No. Me neither.
00:29:29
Speaker
I've been thrown from a horse. So, yeah. So anyway, but you you get where we're going with that. He he brings ah important information. Sometimes he brings a tax refund, you know, whatever the case may be. Or he delivers the bill that you're sending the check for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Both ways. It brings you the bill. and Yeah, and if you're not aware of that, then you're going to get in trouble. So, again, they they provide a great cultural good.
00:29:56
Speaker
And I think from a Christian worldview, and this is where we're, at least I'm thinking, you know, and we are, we talked about this before, expand our minds that...
Secular vs. Sacred Cultural Contributions
00:30:05
Speaker
um Can you just say you didn't you didn't elaborate a little bit? You brought up the the secular and the sacred.
00:30:14
Speaker
um There's really no distinction, right? Right. i mean, we we often make that distinction. Yeah, biblically speaking, there's there's not. The Bible doesn't lay out a distinction of certain things being secular, certain things being sacred.
00:30:29
Speaker
um from the standpoint of things that you can do or or whatever. and But there is there is a perception among many believers that um there are certain things that fall under this secular realm. yep and and And basically, there's so there's not really anything redeemable about them in one sense.
00:30:50
Speaker
And it's not really anything we should be involved in. right um And then we use it as a labor. For example, um you know, You know this. a lot of people that know me that might be watching know this. I do music. um I lead the worship at at at our church. yep um And I write and songs and all of this.
00:31:08
Speaker
um But there's always this distinction between a secular music and Christian music, which right Christian being used as a synonym for sacred there. ye um So that, you know, there there's a distinction. And obviously,
00:31:23
Speaker
there is a huge distinction in themes and messages yeah ah that are being portrayed by someone who is is not saved, who doesn't know the Lord, um and who is not writing or performing music out of a motivation to glorify Him versus someone who is. um So there's there's definitely a difference in messages, um but music itself is not a sacred or secular thing. right ah Music is, again, a gift, a tool that the Lord has given to us that as Christians, we should be taking and using and molding and cultivating um to to create things that can bring honor to His name yeah and glory to Him and put His ah his nature, His his image yeah on display. That's right.
00:32:12
Speaker
So, continuing or going back to that thought experiment, and I'll put you on the spot because, again, we didn't we didn't talk about this. Yeah. let's Let's talk about baseball for a minute because know you're a former baseball player.
00:32:26
Speaker
Long. wasn't it Anyway, um it is baseball, see see because what you're you're implying about those who make that distinction between the secularists say, well, baseball, that that's just nothing. It's going to burn up one day.
00:32:42
Speaker
and and and a lot of Christians say, yeah, we shouldn't even be going to the baseball game, wasting your time, need to be out there doing evangelism. Now listen, I believe in evangelism. Wait, so are you saying that Field of Dreams is not real to play baseball fall in heaven?
00:32:55
Speaker
ah Well, I'm not saying that yet. Okay. Hang on. Okay. I know they play football in the backyard, right? Yeah, yeah. That's what the adrenaline i said. I'm kidding. Yes. But... um Here's where going with that, though.
00:33:08
Speaker
But some wouldn't wouldn't go you know quite so far away, shouldn't and go the ballgame. But they just they view it as as you were implying or indicating, ah well, it's not really sacred and it's just it's just something we do, but it's going to burn up one day. It's not that important. Well, okay, look, the salvation of a soul is pretty important.
00:33:27
Speaker
Right. I mean, we agree with that. But let's just think bigger. Is baseball nothing or is it a gift from God? I think it's a gift from God. Right.
00:33:39
Speaker
And I think it's a gift from God for a lot of reasons. Those who participate. They're able, and let's just again, this is the thought experiment. I think they're able to learn things like sportsmanship and teamwork and community.
00:33:52
Speaker
It's no replacement for the fellowship we have in Christ. Right. But these are cultural goods. And what about the people who go to the baseball game? Listen, i'm i don't I'm not like, baseball's not necessarily my very favorite sport.
00:34:07
Speaker
um Just in terms of playing or even watching, unless it's the playoffs or something. But ah there's not much that's, you know, in sports that's more enjoyable than going to a baseball game live.
00:34:24
Speaker
And then that's why the songs take me out to the ball game and all that stuff. You're at the park. You got all the people cheering. You got the popcorn. You got and the yeah yeah you know the kids running around doing what they're doing. And it's just, I don't know, it's just a, it it it provides um some rest and respite. I mean, I could go on. i don't want to belabor this too much. We have a limited amount of time.
00:34:45
Speaker
But I'm saying it's a cultural good. And I think that Christians need to see it that way. And again, it you know, if you have the opportunity to to share the gospel with somebody on your way to the ballpark,
00:35:03
Speaker
do that and a soul is saved, yeah, that's that's you there's a sense in which nothing compares to that, right? the The soul is saved, God is glorified. But at the same time, you can't just say baseball doesn't mean anything. It does mean something. yeah It's a cultural good.
00:35:23
Speaker
in in in a way, puts God's glory and beauty, when looked at rightly, on display. Not everybody sees it. When looked at rightly. When looked at, yeah. Yeah, because um the more that we try to view things through a gospel lens,
00:35:41
Speaker
we can see multiple ways that um multiple things can put God's glory on this display. Yeah. um You know, you talked about the sportsmanship and and and and learning fairness and those kinds of things.
00:35:56
Speaker
um Being outside, enjoying the sunshine and the fresh air, God's creation. um Seeing ah in in any sport, seeing these athletic things abilities yeah that are God-given talents and acknowledging it for that for what it is, um again, it's all in how we how we view it.
00:36:19
Speaker
If we view it in the right way through a gospel lens, yeah then then all of those things can be good and we can give God glory for it. But again, just like when we talked about earth worship,
00:36:32
Speaker
um anything that the the Lord has given us as a gift can become an idol. So can sports become an idol? Very easily. Sure. Lots of things. Anything that's a gift can become an idol. Yes. um But it's all in how we view it. Yeah. And the more that we view it through a gospel lens, then we then That's how we shape the culture. Yes. Is that these things are good. We can do these things and we can do them with the right mindset that puts God's glory on display um and not that it's glorifying
00:37:08
Speaker
man, not glorifying the athletes that are participating or or anything like that, but it's but it's putting God's glory on display in and in ah in a multitude of ways. And so that goes back to the view of everything being worship.
00:37:24
Speaker
Yes. um All that we do, if we do it for the glory of God, if we view it for the glory of God, then it can be an act of worship. And again, maybe that's different than corporate worship when we're coming together As a body, um but everything that we do should be, the Bible tells us, an act of worship. Yeah. So even participating in, whether it's playing or observing a baseball game, right can be an act of worship yeah if viewed correctly. Yeah, no, I...
00:37:54
Speaker
I think that's it. And and if you're a Christian, we're told to renew our minds, right? when We renew our minds by the scriptures. Put off sinful um things that we do and think and say.
00:38:06
Speaker
Replace those with godly things to think about, do, and say. you know Sinful habit patterns versus godly habit patterns. But we put off, put on through the renewing of our mind.
00:38:16
Speaker
And the more our minds are renewed, the more we're thinking God's thoughts after Him, the more we're thinking about God, in the everyday.
Renewing Minds in Cultural Engagement
00:38:27
Speaker
Paul says something interesting, and i think it's in Romans 8.
00:38:29
Speaker
He says, those who mind those who mind the things of the flesh ah will die. and And the idea is that your heart is set on the things of the flesh. m Your heart is bent toward that.
00:38:42
Speaker
and And the heart and the mind in the New Testament are essentially the same thing. He says, but those who mind the things of the Spirit will live. and And again, I think I'm paraphrasing there.
00:38:54
Speaker
but But he says, you know, on the one hand, we We struggle with sin, going back Romans 7. The thing that that I don't want to do, I do. That which I want to do, I don't do. Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? He's lamenting tremendously over this this battle between the flesh and the spirit that did he talks about in Galatians 6, for example. Maybe chapter 5, I can't remember. Anyway.
00:39:17
Speaker
um so he says who will deliver me from the body this death thanks be to god through jesus christ our lord there is therefore and this is the gospel there is therefore now no condemnation uh for those in christ jesus and then he goes on to say for those who walk after the spirit and not after the flesh and of course he doesn't mean that we're perfect he means that we're influenced by the spirit And are are the inner man, the inner person that I am, delights in God and delights in God's law.
00:39:54
Speaker
And um i I want to glorify God in all that I do. And when I sin, I grieve over it and I repent and and I strive to do better. Not because I'm afraid God's going to throw me into hell, but because I love God and i I delight in his law now. I'm a i've The old person that I was died, and I've been raised to walk in newness of life. That takes us back to Romans 6. All this stuff goes together. Right. Okay. Where where was I going with that? Why was I thinking? Well, when you renew your mind, you're you're not only thinking more and more about the things of God, thinking more and more about how I can live for the glory of God.
00:40:33
Speaker
Well, can I enjoy a baseball game just to go back for the glory of God? Yes. I can thank God ah for the Saturday afternoon. I can thank God for the sunshine. When I see that Babe Ruth point to the fence and then he does it? I mean, I wasn't around when Babe Ruth was around, but that's a very famous... Yeah, me neither. Yeah, right.
00:40:54
Speaker
um And I know you're not a Yankee fan, so... No. No. How about Smoltz or... what What was the other one? John Snow, the great pitcher, and the other pitchers back when you were... Greg Maddox. Maddox, yes, thank you. it To see these guys, man, throw the heat.
00:41:12
Speaker
so ah I don't even know if I could throw a ball 30 miles an hour. I have no idea. They're throwing it 100 miles an hour, whatever they're doing. But anyway... But I was thinking about that renewing your your mind. I think, and again, everybody's different.
00:41:29
Speaker
Every Christian is different. And and the gospel the gospel saves all of us. But there are things God deals with in different people, and there are things He does in different people. One of the things He does for me when when i when I go to that game and I see Smoltz or a Maddox or whoever it might be,
00:41:47
Speaker
you know somebody lay out for that touchdown catch, and he does something that I could never do. Well, like you said, I'm not worshiping that man. I do that. Whoa, did you see that? That's incredible.
00:41:59
Speaker
But my mind automatically goes, Lord, thank you for letting me see that, and thank you for the ability to give that guy to do it that we could And then I go like, wait if if if humans can do that, what can God do? I'm just saying. Right. It takes my mind back to the Lord. it really does. I'm not saying every touchdown or every slam dunk, but a lot, if that makes sense. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because like like you said, like you just said, if if a human can do that, because a lot of these humans that we see do these amazing things on the athletic fields are...
00:42:34
Speaker
are they're susceptible to injury. Yeah. You know, yeah and and in the blink of an eye, that ability could be taken away from them. Right. But, um, Again, we we acknowledge that God, infinite power, infinite ability, um and doesn't get injured. Yeah. Doesn't lose his ability right at any point.
00:42:58
Speaker
and And that's not talking about whether or not God can catch a touchdown path. you know Right. Not going down that road. That would be ridiculous. Right. But again, seeing the things that when when we see God gift another human with the ability to do something that's amazing compared to me sitting on the couch with my potato chips watching it yeah Right, right.
00:43:25
Speaker
Again, it's like, wow. There's so much more that's capable and ability there. Well, how much more so, like you said, is God yeah um in his power and his ability?
00:43:38
Speaker
And again, it's it's putting his glory, his nature, his image on display. And why do we talk about wanting to put his image? Why do we what are we talk about wanting to image forth him? Well, again, it comes back to the gospel, as we've said, um because And kind of going back to what we talked about in our previous episode about who God is, um it's his sovereign power.
Reflecting God's Beauty in Culture
00:44:04
Speaker
It's his majesty. It's his glory. It's his holiness. It's his beauty. God, God himself. not just because he says so, but because it's who he is, he is the most beautiful thing in the universe. Yeah, yeah. He encompasses all that is beautiful and good and pure and wonderful and all of the superlatives we could think of to describe.
00:44:30
Speaker
And so That God who has chosen to condescend to fallen image bearers such as us and redeem us. Mm-hmm.
00:44:45
Speaker
Again, the the the thorns and the thistles are in our heart, right? Yeah. um But God's redeemed that in us and is in the constant process of redeeming that in us through our sanctification.
00:44:57
Speaker
So that's the gospel. he's He's taken that death away from us. he's he's he's He's fighting back those thorns and thistles. So, again, he's given us this command because that puts on display what he's doing in our own hearts. Yeah. So that's why we want to fight back the thorns and the thistles in our culture. Yeah. um and and And make things that are beautiful. you know, we've talked about art. Yep. um And music and yeahp and design, um you know, big, beautiful buildings. Yeah. um You know.
00:45:33
Speaker
pristine cities, yeah you know, making things clean. that yeah kind of All of that is all about putting beauty on display, putting creativity on display, putting all of these things on display, because it reflects a God who is infinitely all of these things.
00:45:50
Speaker
And it reminds us that that infinitely superlative in every way God has redeemed us. And so if we can be a part of redeeming the culture, then again, that's a picture of what he's done spiritually in our own hearts. Yeah, yeah.
00:46:09
Speaker
I am really glad you touched on that because lot times we think about truth all the time, and we should, and justice. But we don't often, or at least Christians in general, think about beauty.
00:46:23
Speaker
But that's what you just said. i'm not going to elaborate because you said it perfectly. and um I took us off track with the thought experiment, um but I think that was it was fruitful for me anyway. I hope it's fruitful for others.
00:46:38
Speaker
Could we come back and talk more about culture because we haven't, we'll never be exhaustive. Sure. But I think some other things we can say, and I wouldn't mind expanding on on the the beauty thing because I don't, again, I don't think that's a topic that a lot of, ah well, some Christians think about in terms of, you know, crown molding.
00:46:59
Speaker
Like you said, big, beautiful buildings, crown molding glorifies God. But I do think people might have a question, well, Okay, you're going to spend all this money on yourself? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Beg us about what you said. No, no, no. We're to worship God. and so Don't make an idol out of it. Don't make an idol out of it. But it's still a good thing because God's a God of beauty. So we need to we need to talk more about that is all I'm saying. Sure, absolutely. So let's do that next time because I think we're out of time for today. Is that good? all right, sounds good. All right, see you next time on Answering Pilot.
00:47:30
Speaker
The Answering Pilot podcast is a ministry of Randall House Church in Greer, South Carolina. You can learn more at www.randallhousegreer.com slash church. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at atrandallhousechurch.
00:47:45
Speaker
Don't forget to like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.