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Auro Montanari aka John Goldberger - The Collector We All Look Up To
1.3k Plays1 year ago
Summary Written By Rich Fordon @ Hodinkee: Auro Montanari, aka John Goldberger truly is the consummate collector you see on TV (see Hodinkee Talking Watches), yet he is so much more than a guy with a bunch of cool watches no one else has. A scholar first and, importantly, passionate about sharing that knowledge, his contribution to the world of watches in immeasurable.
Talking Watches w/ John Goldberger Part 1 - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/talking-watches-with-john-goldberger
Talking Watches w/ John Goldberger Part 2 - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/talking-watches-john-goldberger-part-2
John Goldberger's Books - http://www.johngoldbergerwatches.com/
Goldberger's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/goldberger/?hl=en
Cartier Cintree Collection Video - https://revolutionwatch.com/vintage-cartier-tank-cintree-mother-lode-amassed-by-john-goldberger/
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Transcript
Introduction and the Influence of Family on Collecting
00:00:00
Speaker
My father gave me great advice at the end of 70 to buy mechanical watch because it was starting the fourth era and the mechanical watch was very cheap and available on the flea market. What's going on everybody and welcome to collector's gene radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene.
00:00:30
Speaker
If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening, and please enjoy today's guest on Collector's Dream Radio.
Meet Auro Montanari: Collector Extraordinaire
00:00:42
Speaker
Today's guest needs no introduction in the watch world, but if you're not familiar, he's the guy most of us look up to. In fact, he's been the response many times over to my recurring question to our guests on who they feel is the goat in the collecting world.
00:00:58
Speaker
Our Montanari, AKA John Goldberger, has made a name in the industry for his incredible collection, passion, knowledge, collecting philosophies, and his willingness to share the decades worth of learning that he's collected for all of us. Now he's collected and handled some of the rarest watches in the world, ones that most of us will never have the chance to own, let alone see with our own eyes.
00:01:23
Speaker
He's a photographer at heart and has written some of the greatest books on watches with a second version of his book, Time to Race 2, on the way. And this is all because he wants there to be more information for us to learn from. Now we of course talk about Cartier, our love for the Ralph Lauren Slim Classique, and I even threw a little quiz at him to see if he could tell me about three random watches he's posted amongst his 2,500 Instagram photos. Needless to say, this is a special one.
00:01:51
Speaker
Without further ado, Auro Montanari, AKA John Goldberger, for Collectors Gene Radio. Auro Montanari, AKA John Goldberger, it is an honor to have you on Collectors Gene Radio today. Thank you. So you're considered by most to be one of the greatest collectors amongst many generations. It's a good collection. That's a good collection. Well, I guess, I think it depends who you ask.
00:02:17
Speaker
You're an author of some of the most respected watchbooks and people truly look up to you in the watch world. Is that flattering to you? Yeah.
00:02:25
Speaker
And a lot of people know you for using a charcuterie knife to open a split seconds Rolex. That's one of 12, but there's a lot more to talk about today. Very popular knife. Yes. So growing up, you've mentioned that your parents were great art collectors.
The Art of Collecting: Watches, Aesthetics, and Influence
00:02:44
Speaker
Can you tell me a bit about your parents and who they were and what kind of art they were collecting? No, my parents were great collector about
00:02:54
Speaker
classic painting, furniture, and also old ceramics by 17th, 15th, 15th century. Do you still have any of their art collection? Yeah, yeah. It's still the house of my parents. My parents, they passed away 10 years ago, but I still own the house with a full of object, furniture, painting, everything. Amazing.
00:03:20
Speaker
And your parents pushed you to kind of be your own collector and your father really wanted you to start collecting watches, right? Yeah, they gave me the fever about collecting and my father gave me great advisor at the hand of 70 to buy
00:03:37
Speaker
mechanical watch because it was starting the course era and the mechanical watch was very cheap and available on the flea market. My father gave me great advice to start collecting because I started collecting gold coins when I was 10, 12 years old. And did you have an immediate love for watches or did it take you a while to appreciate them? Immediately. I love watches.
00:04:07
Speaker
Well, we know that now. For me, it's the best portable collection for a man. What was the first watch you ever bought? Do you remember? Yeah, I remember well. It was an old gold Rolex chronograph. The reference was a 38-35. It was a nice chronograph with the hard core looks and the three counters. And then my mother
00:04:31
Speaker
gave me the information about this watch because it was in the Antiquarius in Bologna. It's more Antiquarius. It was selling only furniture and painting. He portrayed this watch for my family. I bought the watch. I still have it in my collection. Amazing. The price was around $500, nothing special. Can you imagine? How about the most recent watch you bought? Recently,
00:04:59
Speaker
what they bought and I forgot because I'm very quiet now. I bought two very nice watches in the auction in Monte Carlo with the help of a good friend of mine who is a good dealer, Davide Parmigiani. There are two watches sold through Arcurial auction. It was a one unique rectangular perpetual full calendar moon phase manufacturing platinum.
Auction Adventures and Recent Acquisitions
00:05:30
Speaker
another full calendar around Cartier made by Edmar Pierre. And did you have your eyes on those watches to bid on them, or did you just see them in the catalog and decide last minute? No. And no bigger. A great auction animal. I prefer to have the help of other people like a dealer. He put a change of watch for me. How has your taste evolved since you started collecting?
00:05:59
Speaker
I always start to love nice watches, nice wearable watch on your wrist. I don't care about the brand. I care about the aesthetic of the watch and the condition and also the provenance. Let's talk about a brand that is dear and dear to both of us, but especially you, and that's Cartier. What is it about Cartier that you love so much? Because it's classic watch.
00:06:29
Speaker
especially the time-only watches, with the great design, it also is still contemporary watch under your wrist. The design watch from the 2013-40 was an extremely great balance in the case and the dimension, and they are still contemporary. I love the Cartier. For me, the best wearable watch in the world. Couldn't agree more. Do you remember when you first discovered Cartier?
00:06:58
Speaker
I started collecting them in 78. I went to New York. I saw in the flea market on the 26th and 6th and in New York, a nice tanks and trevos was very expensive. I put such later this kind of model and the first car table was a very simple tank normal from the 40. Were you captivated by Cartier right away?
00:07:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, right. And you said the Tank Normale was the first Cartier you ever bought. Do you still have it? Yeah, sure. All my Cartiers are still in my collection. And you love the Tanks and Tre, you have a ton of them. Yeah. You did a great video with Waco and Revolution. Yeah. Does the Tanks and Tre remain amongst your favorite designs? Yeah, because it was created in the 20s.
00:07:50
Speaker
was very thin with a small movement inside. And this curved case was almost unique. Other brands manufacture this kind of curved watch, like Patifolipe, Movado, Omega Tissot. But you see the design of Cartier is perfect. And you see the Cartier is an example of a micro mechanic. You see the inside, the screw, the case, the movement, and everything is handmade.
00:08:20
Speaker
they're perfect. Yeah, the diet with the Roman numerals are unique.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah. And that's what I love about Cartier is that for the most part, their dials have remained very similar with the same design language, but the K shapes have evolved and they've done some wild stuff, which you absolutely love. And I think that's what I love about them most is that they don't have to change their dials too drastically, but if they make things still elegant with great K shapes, it's very exciting.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah, the Cartier dial is iconic. It's the only Cartier. Absolutely. Would you say as a brand, you collect the most Cartier out of any other brand? No, I love four or five brands, like Pataflip, Rolex, Longines, and Omega. For me, Longines was one of the best manufacturing brands in Switzerland around 30 and 40. They create great chronograph with the
00:09:23
Speaker
He now has movement and with the great case and the Longines were very technical. All the Hermes and aviation cops used the Longines in that period. Can we expect a Cartier book from you in the future? I try to collaborate right now with the Francesca Cartier-Brickell to a new book about Cartier London time.
00:09:53
Speaker
Now or lately I travel in USA to take photo from my private collection, just only to take photo about Cartier London, because the period between 16 and 17 was very creative in Cartier, especially from the London production. Absolutely. Some of the most desirable.
00:10:17
Speaker
right now, because you know, with the social media, the people discover Cartier, London, but they are very unique. And also, if you understand that the period was a swing in London, in the UK, and the UK was a very advanced country. Everybody traveled to London was the central capital seat of the world for music, for the design, for cars, for movie, and for watches by Cartier.
Passion for Collecting: Inspiration and Craftsmanship
00:10:47
Speaker
And you also collect rare books, and if I understand correctly, you have arguably one of the rarest watchbooks of all time, which is the J.P. Morgan watch collection book. Is that correct? Yeah, yes. I put it in the shopping auction in New York. Because for me, Pierpoint Morgan was one of the best, the biggest collector in the past. More than collectors, I mastered a lot of items. I watches, painting, furniture.
00:11:16
Speaker
You know, he was very healthy and rich and came to Europe. He bought everything. Was this book an inspiration for you to write some of your own? Not a inspiration, but I like the binding, the illustration and color illustration. I like the passion of the collector behind this book. You know, you made a few copies just for friends and the collectors. Have any of his watches ever come up to auction?
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, a few. Did you have the chance to bid? No, because this kind of watch for me are too old for my taste. Okay. Because I started collecting watch from the 20 to contemporary times. No big passion of about the, you know, all the clocks and deck watch and hockey watch.
00:12:12
Speaker
They are very important. Have you had a chance to visit his museum? No, I just visited a long time ago the Time Museum in the rocket store. What was there now is they closed and they sold everything in the auction and sold it in the 2000 something.
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah, next time you're in New York, you should go to his library in Manhattan. Yeah, I saw the library. I took the photo in the library because I'm a big fan of the architectural photo. I went to the photo of the interior, so it's a great library. That fireplace is like two times the size of me. Yeah. You could fit in there. Did you ever consider making a book similar to that that encapsulates your whole collection? I think about it, but no, this kind of
00:12:59
Speaker
quality. It's very hard to reproduce. You'd have a lot of buyers. Yeah, but I don't have a collection. I'm so excited to make a book. I think you'd be surprised how many people disagree. Yeah. Another brand we both love is Ralph Lauren. And before we were chatting today, I sent you a text wearing my Ralph Lauren watch in honor of
00:13:29
Speaker
of us recording today. Yes, because you purchase also the ZLIMCLE signal. Yes, mine's in white gold. I believe you have the platinum. Yes, I have a larger size on platinum. I bought almost eight years ago, 10 years ago. Yeah, amazing watch. You know, the rough learning watch collection is very interesting because I know what the designer, the designer Italian, his name is Jean-Pierre Bodino, helped to design all the
00:13:59
Speaker
watches in their flooring portfolio. And also, the manufacturing is located in Switzerland. They are made from Piaget or Jaeger LeCoultre. It's a great brand. Absolutely. Yeah. Why don't you think it gets the love it deserves? You know, the people doesn't like to have, I don't like to say a tailor, but as a fashion designer on the dial. Yeah.
00:14:28
Speaker
But in the past, Gucci made the good watches. Now they are very popular. But the other company, they tried to manufacture watch like Armani, Dolce & Gabbana and Versace was no, they never great for sex. But there are floating watches, are great watches. Especially, I like the last one. They launched a very nice silver
00:14:56
Speaker
So no case with the old engraved by hand with the nice leather. Yeah, the Western collection. Yeah, I like this kind of watch. Do you own any from the Western collection? No, I like to purchase one. Now I included to find one with the good price. I know, they're pricey. Yeah, very pricey.
00:15:19
Speaker
I think one just came up for sale for like $25,000 or $35,000. It's insane price. It's crazy. It's a great dial, great case, and great looking watch. Yeah, very different. Yeah. Very Ralph, as they would say. Yeah, yeah, right. What do you like about this little classic? Obviously, it's a great movement and whatnot, but... No, I like because I'm a big fan of the small watches and big watches.
00:15:46
Speaker
This is big watches, oversized watches, but with the cartiloupe. You see the dial is very cartier. And also the finish of the case and the dial is great with all guilloche on the bezel or two kinds of guilloche finishing on the dial. It's great. Well done. Nobody's really making cases like this right now. Yeah, because I think the idea came from a pocket watch
00:16:14
Speaker
that were floor and boat in the Southby auction. And he loved the finishing on the bezel, this kind of engraving bezel. And Jean-Pierre Bodine tried to reproduce this kind of finishing on this watch.
00:16:31
Speaker
One Ralph Lauren watch that I have in my collection that I was surprised not to see in yours, unless I'm wrong, is a stirrup watch. Yeah, still looks very nice, but prefer the original one, the Cartier Cloche. Yes. Maybe I came from there and I have a very old Cartier Cloche from the 30 in platinum. But, you know, they made a good job for the contemporary watch.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah, I have the small one in rose gold and the reason I got it is because the closures are so out of reach and I love that design and it brings me a lot of joy. Yeah, but the problem also, I think they broke the partnership in the Richmond Group between Ralph Lauren and the other company to manufacture the watch. This is the reason they start to launch new models.
00:17:27
Speaker
I see. I wonder if that's because maybe it didn't sell that well or? Who knows? Because, you know, the watch, I remember, were available all in their Florida store. And there are not so many other Florida stores around the world, you know? Right. I think it was, they were very popular in Japan with states, not a lot in Europe. In Europe are very, you know, conservative buyer.
00:17:57
Speaker
Sure. They prefer to invest money in a good brand, you know. Do you like the automotive collection from Ralph Lauren? He has a great collection. Yeah, with the with the wood, the Burlwood bezel modeled after his Bugatti. Yeah, because I think the idea came from a Bugatti dashboard, I think. Yeah, I was in a Ralph Lauren store here the other day and they and they had one and I just I love that watch.
00:18:25
Speaker
I think it could be very delicate to wear this kind of watch with this kind of wood ring. Yeah, you don't want to hit it. Yeah, right. So you've seen a lot of watches and whether they be in catalogs or in person and auction previews and from dealers, are there any vintage watches that you still haven't seen in person that you wish you could? No, so many.
00:18:54
Speaker
Real, because I participated to a whole auction around the world from Haiti, you know. I know well all the dealers. Just one watch. I just saw the photo in the Cartier book. It's a black and white photo of a strange rectangular Cartier made for the Pasha of Marrakesh. I think it's yellow gold with the all green, blue, red enamel
00:19:23
Speaker
I think Arabic ornamental on the case. Wow. It would be nice to find it, but I think it's unique. It would be very nice to find. You recently took a very viral photo of Tyler, the creator, wearing a Cartier crash. Yes. I was in Monaco for the auction. He participated in the auction. It was in a Monaco legend auction.
00:19:52
Speaker
He was sitting close to me. We start to talk about Cartier. He has a big passion about Cartier. I took the photo about his crash on the wrist, was it? Did you know who he was and did he know who you were? At the beginning, no. A friend of mine told me, this is a very important rapper. I went to the... I checked because I checked the name he got. And after that, I found the real name Tyler of the story. And also, I...
00:20:23
Speaker
went on my part to see all the, how do you call it, the movie video clip he made in the past. Very interesting. Very. He's a very creative person. Very. He reminds me a lot of Pharrell, who I'm not sure if you're familiar with, but Pharrell is very interesting too. Yeah, no, no. Pharrell is a great artist. You know, Pharrell designed also nice at the market.
00:20:51
Speaker
Absolutely. They designed a very nice astronaut helmet in the Royal Old Case. Your collection has such a wide range and variety, and I'm curious to know what attracts you first. Is it the case shape, dial, provenance? No, the aesthetics, the quality, and the provenance. And do they have to have all three for you to go for it? The rarity.
00:21:18
Speaker
And if you're going to purchase a vintage watch, does it have to have all of those attributes for you?
Social Media and Niche Collecting
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah. So you're, you're at this point, you're only collecting things that one attract you to have great provenance and condition and rarity. Right. What's your favorite period of watches and what's your least favorite? Favorite period for me is a 15 to 60 because many brands,
00:21:46
Speaker
they launched the new idea on the market, especially Rolex and Omega, they invented the tool watches, you know, around the end of 50, around 57, 58, they launched the Milgauss, GMT, and Daytona, and Omega, the Speedmaster, the Railmaster, and the Seamaster, the first tool watches with master production.
00:22:18
Speaker
You've posted a lot of photos of your collection on Instagram, which has been amazing for all of us to see and soak in. You know, the reason is very simple because I like to take photo of some unusual watch because on Instagram and other social media, there are too many vinyl, a common watches. I try to show something different.
00:22:43
Speaker
And you do, and I think that you're the reason a lot of people have gotten into brands like Cartier and Vintage Omega and Longine. I mean, your books have definitely helped people understand the importance of those brands a lot. I mean, I am a collector of your books, and I have them sitting behind me on my shelf if I can find them. You know, the books are getting old. The book are always old.
00:23:09
Speaker
Can you think maybe to find something on the website? Is there a decent portion of your collection that we haven't seen? Yeah, a lot. Now everybody's going to be wondering what kind of cardiers we haven't seen yet. No, no, there are so many. They are very common. I have two questions from our friend Rich Forden over at Hodenke that he wanted me to ask you.
00:23:38
Speaker
The first question is, is he wanted to know if you would ever publish another book in regards to your street photography? I would love to make another book about street photography, but I don't have enough time to travel around the world to take photos. You got a company to run and watches to collect. Yeah, but maybe when I will be retired, I will travel again around the world to take photos. My first passion.
00:24:07
Speaker
First question was photos, second watches. And was Kodachrome the first book that you put out? Yeah, it was a very personal book for a friend. I made just a print, just I think 1,000 copies. And it sold out. Many friends asked me to have a copy of the book, but I don't have any more. Did you ever think about putting it back into production?
00:24:33
Speaker
No, I don't like to reprint the books, I like to make something new. Everybody asks me to reprint the famous one of the superlative Rolex watches, but I prefer to launch a new book. Yeah.
00:24:49
Speaker
You know, I, I have that book and it's very, very, very hard to find it. Very hard to find. So you're going to think this is funny, but I couldn't find the English version. So I bought the German version. No, I printed the, I don't know, many 3000 copy in English, 1000 in German, 2500 in Italian, and also 1000 French, but are gone. Wow. That's amazing that, that all those copies have sold out.
00:25:19
Speaker
Yeah, my idea was to produce a second one. I'm working on it. I took many photos of other 100 rare Rolex watches, but I'm looking for something new, something different, and it's not finished yet. Well, I just figured I would buy the German version, and then I can learn some watch terms in German.
00:25:47
Speaker
It's a fantastic book. I have quite a few of your books behind me. I have the Steel Patek Philippe books. I have the Longine books. I have the Omega books and the Rolex book. And I have maybe my favorite book that I have is the book you did with your good friend Alessandro Scorzi. Ah yeah, the time to work. Now I launched the second version of the Time to Race part two. Already finished.
00:26:15
Speaker
and it will be available on the Odean Key Shop next month. Yes, it's a very sought-after book. The first one was amazing. I have it sitting as well behind me, and I received that one as a gift, which was very nice, and I recommend to everybody to go out and check your books out. Okay, thank you.
00:26:39
Speaker
The second question from Rich, he wanted to know if you collect fashion in a similar manner to how you collect watches.
Beyond Watches: Exploring Other Interests
00:26:48
Speaker
No, I'm not a big collector. I love the vintage denim, the vintage military clothes, and I'm also a big fan of the tailor-made clothes, but I'm not a big fan of them. I'm not a big collector of clothes.
00:27:08
Speaker
And you like Double RL as well, right? Yeah, I love Double RL because I think this brand showed the American, not the American dreams.
00:27:21
Speaker
So I went on your Instagram and I picked three random watches that were attractive to me, and I'm hoping that you could tell me info about them, maybe where, when you found them, if you can remember. Okay, now this moment open. I don't have a great memory. Well, I picked some popular ones, so I'm sure you'll remember, but the Octagonal Alanger by Cartier London around 1970.
00:27:49
Speaker
I bought it in a Monaco Legend auction almost one year ago. It's very rare. I saw just two, three examples around the world. Yeah, I was going to ask. I can't imagine that there's many examples that have ever surfaced of this watch. Yeah. One in the auction a long time ago in Geneva and another one in London. Only two examples known. It's an amazing watch.
00:28:18
Speaker
a perfect example of what Cartier represents, I think. Especially Cartier London. You see the dial with the big Roman numerals, 12 and 6, and the case is incredible. How about the white gold and wood Bugari by Gerald Genta circa 1979? Oh, yeah. This was, I present to my wife. I love that watch. Yeah.
00:28:46
Speaker
I meet him next weekend in Bulgaria, Rome, because they asked me to write an introduction of the new book about Bulgaria time. And this watch was one of the watches I started to write about Bulgaria, because Gerald Jaintham met Johnny Bulger in the end of 70. He approached him to manufacture some watches for Bulgaria.
00:29:10
Speaker
and from his creative mind came out the famous Bulgari Bulgari watch. We know with the Bulgari room, Bulgari Bulgari name on the bottom. The wooden Bulgari watch is very rare. Yeah, so another example with the bracelet, another one around two years ago in the Miami, in the combination of a Miami antique shop. It was one of my
00:29:38
Speaker
from the company with Gerald Jainton in Switzerland for Bulgari. Amazing. It's very flattering that they asked you to write the introduction for their new book. Yeah. I like to start from the 70s because before Bulgari was selling just Audemars Piguet or Vacheron watches with the Bulgari signature on the dial and also the serpentine with the Bulgari name on the dial.
00:30:07
Speaker
I think that one of the first watches manufactured specifically for Bulgari. Yeah. Do you know how many of those they made? No, I really don't know. Maybe 20 pieces, maybe. I don't know. Wow. Because you know, Bulgari was selling watch early in his boutique in Rome. After that's not open in New York, the end of 70, it was no great place to sell the watches.
00:30:36
Speaker
I've only seen yours and one other of the white gold and wood Bulgari watches, and it's amazing. Yeah. The exclusivity of the Bulgari was like Cartier. You know, if you want to buy a Cartier in 2030, it would take the boat, the train on the flight to go to Paris, to New York, to London to buy watches, and Bulgari just to go to Rome to purchase jewelry or watches, and they would take
00:31:04
Speaker
Did you ever have the opportunity to do that? No, no. The first flight I made in my life was in the 69 with my parents. They brought me to London, the 69 I remember, and my mother, I went with my mother to see the, I remember the Cartier window in Bond Street. And I was very young. I was a 10 year, no, 12 years ago, 12 years old.
00:31:33
Speaker
I understood the exclusivity of that place. Yeah. Special place. Yeah. Did your parents like watches too? No, a lot. My father was a big fan of Omega and my mother, she was not a big fan of watches. She never wore a watch. Wasn't as common back then. Yeah.
00:31:57
Speaker
How about the platinum Cartier Cloche? Only two examples made with Arabic numerals. You have number two of two circa 1996 Paris. Yeah. I put three of the, 10 years ago from a dealer. It was a special order. I think they made in the 1996 or 1997 for the Cartier auction at Antique Warren in Geneva.
00:32:25
Speaker
car team manufacture special was for the auction, some special jump power with a crown of 12, some special sintre with the dual time, dual face dial, and jump power, cloche, and a few watches. Amazing. What do you think of the new cloche that came out a couple of years ago?
00:32:53
Speaker
I don't like a lot. It's too big, too square. It's a nice watch. I prefer the old one. I prefer the collection. Me too. In the 90s, the collection was a very well-made collection and they reproduced exactly the model from the 20s to the 30s. They made a great job with the Sintre, Cloche, the jump power, the
00:33:21
Speaker
They make only a little mistake with the crash. They make a smaller compared to the original one from London. But the other watch was a perfect. If your parents could see your collection now, what do you think they would say? Bravo. Does it? I think everybody says that. My parents never saw my collection. They knew I was buying watches, but never saw my collection this safe.
00:33:50
Speaker
I don't want to take too much more of your time, so let's finish up here with the collector's gene rundown. Okay, tell me. What's the one that got away? Yeah, was during the auction in Christie at Geneva in 2006 was a unique watch made by Schulz, was a New York jury.
00:34:16
Speaker
Even unfortunately, the most complicated wristwatch in the world for that period, more than some Patek, more than some Vacher, was a tonneau platinum case with the minute repeating chronograph and perpetual calendar. They used the same movement, a Bosch from a Patep Philippe, this is a Victorin Piggy Bosch. And for that period, it was a $10,000 watch in the 30s, imagine.
00:34:46
Speaker
Wow. I don't think anything was $10,000 back then. I don't know. I think the, I think a per pay 12 kilo cool price would be up around the $1,500, $2,000. And it was a special made from a Jim Schulz, the owner of the company. And after that, the Jim Schulz sold the Watson after the second war 46 to every topping, the big,
00:35:16
Speaker
to American investor and sportsman. He was the husband of Lana Turner. After years, he came out in the auction on Saturday night of Christine in the night. In 2006, he came out for the last time. It was a $1 million watch. Wow. It was a lot in my pocket. But I lost this watch. For me, it was my holy grail watch.
00:36:11
Speaker
Do you know who bought it?
00:36:16
Speaker
chronograph, perpetual, minute repeating. Amazing. Yeah. Manufacture in the 30, 34. Yeah, I can't imagine being $10,000 in the 30s. Also there was an article of Life magazine in the 40. They made a little page with the most expensive watch in that period. The shoes was the most expensive. Compare Partech or other watches.
00:36:44
Speaker
What's the on deck circle for you? So what's next in your collecting? Is there maybe something you have your eye on? No, right now my policy is to reduce my collection, to improve the quality, to improve the rarity, and to have a less number of watches. I'm still looking for nice watches. I don't have any watch on target.
00:37:09
Speaker
What's the unobtainable, maybe one you can't have because it's too expensive or it's in a museum now? Yeah. Also, this was came out in, I think, 2019. I don't know when the Christie auction is an oversized chronograph split second by Paterfilippe. It's a reference 2512 with black dial.
00:37:37
Speaker
was purchased from my Patefili Museum. If you go in the Patefili Museum, you see a window with that watch on it. Yeah, it's amazing. I love the oversized pilot watch, and this is very similar to my 4-1, 1-3 Rolex Patek split-second, no, Rolex split-second. The famous one. Yeah, it's very similar. This is in gold with a black dial made by Patek in unique sample.
00:38:08
Speaker
And so the Patek Philippe Museum purchased it? Yeah, almost 22, 24 years ago. How about the page one rewrite? So if you could collect one thing besides watches and the other antiquities and books that you collect, what would you collect? Just one watch. Just one watch? Yeah, just one watch, just maybe a particular Patek Philippe chronograph reference 1518.
00:38:39
Speaker
because it's very simple watch. It was the first perpetual chronograph lounge in the 40 and it's a conic watch. You know, the collector started collecting watch to buy this kind of watch. If you could collect it in any metal, what would you choose? Stilva was impossible to use it. They already
00:39:07
Speaker
located in the Great Collection. Yeah, that watch in steel is pretty perfect. Yeah, but just the one, perfect. 1518 to put on the wrist, does it? The only one watch? Yeah, it's all you need. Only one denim pants, one chambray, short eye, perfect. That's your personal Sprezza Tuda. Yeah, right.
00:39:31
Speaker
I'm curious for your answer for this next question because a lot of the guests that I have had on have said that you are the answer to this question for them. So who is the goat for you? Who do you look up to in the collecting world? I don't see a great example in the collectors. I remember just one collector was a lady in the 90 Milano. She amassed a great collection of everything.
00:40:02
Speaker
Great Patek, Vacheron, Rolex, Clocks, and Pocket Watch by Breguet, Cartier, she built a great collection. And unfortunately, she passed away and all the collection was spilled on the market. That's unfortunate. But you know, I don't see right now a great collector on the market.
00:40:29
Speaker
what I like, because all the best collectors are focused on the big animals. Sure. Very important part, very important part, and does it aerolics. Did you look up to your parents as great collectors when you started collecting? No. For me, my parents don't know. From my point of view, no great collector because they didn't focus well in some period.
00:40:59
Speaker
didn't focus well on the quality and the rarity. You ship, they prefer to a mass thing to put in the house. Sure, to make it look good. They fill up the house with the things, that's it. Do you enjoy the hunt more or the ownership? No, I always, always love hunting. I don't care about the tone I watch. I put one day on the wrist and does it
00:41:28
Speaker
I put the watch in the safe. I take a photo, does it? It doesn't bother you that a lot of the watches are in the safe and you don't get to wear them often? No, no. I don't care because regularly, I'm wearing very simple watch. For the summertime, I wore the all-brown Tudor. Right now, I'm wearing a Bulgari Octo Finissimo Special Edition by Shijima.
00:41:58
Speaker
And that's it. Yep. Very simple watch time only on the wrist and I don't care about important watch on my wrist. As long as you own it and you get to go look at it sometimes that's perfect for you. Yeah, right. Sometimes I wore casual swatches. I don't care. Most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene? Yeah, I think so. My parents
00:42:26
Speaker
give you this kind of realness, I don't know. I figured your answer would be yes. Yes. Arrow, such a pleasure to have you on today. It truly means a lot to me. I know I personally look up to you in the collecting world and in watches, and I appreciate all the books that you've written and everything that you've posted and all the knowledge that you've shared. It's truly a pleasure to talk to you. Welcome, Cameron.
00:42:56
Speaker
And thanks to two of my answers. Absolutely. Maybe we'll do this again soon and when you put some new books out. OK, great. All right, Arif, take care. Bye bye. Talk about it. Ciao. All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.