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In the Raz With SS Das ft. Matty Jackson
412 Plays1 month ago
Former Liverpool captain and Academy North coach Matty Jackson joins Tom and Jamie to answer the big questions. What’s the worst thing he’s ever said to a groundsman? Why are Liverpool doing so well now he’s not captain any more? What’s the deal with young people having fun? And - in probably the best 10 minutes of genuine cricket discussion we’ve done - what can be done about overseas pros bowling all day?
The Last Hour cricket podcast is brought to you by Westcoast Workwear, a nationwide supplier of branded workwear and uniforms. Visit westcoastworkwear.co.uk to view products and services.
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Transcript
00:00:02
Tom Evans
Okay.
00:00:42
Tom Evans
Hello, hello,
Introduction and Eighth Episode Milestone
00:00:43
Tom Evans
hello. Welcome to the Last Hour Cricket Podcast, a podcast which is just a podcast of nothing beyond. um My name is Tom Evans. I'm from Motherside Cricket Online. With me as always is my co-host, Jamie Bowman. are you doing, Jamie?
00:00:55
Jamie Bowman
I'm good. Thanks, Tom. all All set first for this. We're surging on. What number are we on now?
00:01:03
Tom Evans
This is episode eight we're up to now. Yeah.
00:01:05
Jamie Bowman
Wow.
00:01:05
Tom Evans
So ah yeah, uncharted territory. I've said this a few times, but I'm pretty confident that most podcasts don't make it to eight episodes.
00:01:09
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:01:15
Tom Evans
you know i i think we're out of the long tail of podcast longevity, as it were.
Guest Introduction: Matty Jackson
00:01:22
Tom Evans
um I guess for episode eight is a cricketer and coach of many years standing and a man who once received a text message from an award-winning local cricket writer,
00:01:32
Tom Evans
featuring a picture of some boys' swim shorts, ages 10 to 11, and the words, will these do? It is, of course, former Liverpool Cricket Club captain and Academy North coach, Matty Jackson.
00:01:40
Jamie Bowman
Thank
00:01:45
Tom Evans
Matty, do you remember that?
Humorous Cricket Anecdotes and Groundsmen Disagreements
00:01:46
Matty Jackson
I didn't until you just said that and I do remember that now. yeah
00:01:50
Tom Evans
i was I was stopping off to get some swim shorts on my way to a Liverpool game, and I'd been texting you to ask about whether it was raining or not, and I texted my wife to ask if the swim shorts were okay.
00:02:02
Tom Evans
They were. You'll be pleased to know. It turned out. It's
00:02:04
Matty Jackson
I'd forgotten about that but yeah i do remember that now you mention it yeah.
00:02:08
Tom Evans
not something you forget about when you text someone something like that. The worst things I could have texted to a cricket captain instead of Mrs Evans.
00:02:18
Matty Jackson
i was an up school what i thought at the time um did i reply about the shorts did i have an opinion or
00:02:26
Tom Evans
I think I realized my error as soon as it had sent, and I quickly said, ah clearly that wasn't meant for you. Sorry. I think you were preparing your team for the game, so yeah, you didn't reply.
00:02:39
Matty Jackson
yeah
00:02:40
Jamie Bowman
It could have been worse if someone had been in the shorts, i suppose. i mean, that might have been worse.
00:02:44
Matty Jackson
but
00:02:46
Tom Evans
They were just on a hanger. Yeah.
00:02:49
Jamie Bowman
LAUGHTER
00:02:50
Matty Jackson
You remember that now.
00:02:52
Tom Evans
Anyway, we have a
00:02:52
Matty Jackson
Thanks.
00:02:53
Tom Evans
We have a ah lot of cricket to talk about, don't we? um Starting with, what's the worst thing that either of you two has ever said to a groundsman? Jamie, you ever had a row with a groundsman?
00:03:05
Jamie Bowman
why have had i i have to I had a stage when I was ah a captain where I had a lot of rows with my groundsman because we played at live we played a a ground that wasn't our own.
00:03:17
Tom Evans
know.
00:03:18
Jamie Bowman
And if there was a sprinkling of rain in the morning or even overnight, he would call the game off. um So i remember I remember arguing with him all the time.
00:03:29
Jamie Bowman
ah You know, and i'm saying it's bloody sunny now. Why can't we play? it rained overnight, you know. So, yeah, I have had experience of quite a few arguments with groundsmen.
00:03:41
Jamie Bowman
But nothing like today's aggression. Yeah. like today's aggression
00:03:45
Tom Evans
Nothing like India coach Gautam Gambier having a proper go at Surrey groundsman Lee Fortas. um Matty, you having a run-in with the groundsman? No.
00:03:56
Matty Jackson
um I don't think I have. I think I've begged a few groundsmen to call games off at times, other than the other way around. I do you remember, think about three years ago, we were playing Sefton, actually, and it was the first day of the football season. Liverpool were at home, lunchtime kick-off.
00:04:15
Matty Jackson
It was an absolute dead rubber between Liverpool and Sefton. And I did my... my
00:04:20
Jamie Bowman
no such thing. No such thing as a dead rubber between Liverpool and Safton.
00:04:24
Matty Jackson
You are right, but it was the start of the football season and I was looking forward to get Anfield. So I do remember, you know, questioning the groundsman's decision to actually do his job that day.
00:04:36
Matty Jackson
and But no, I don't think I've ever had a run-in with the groundsman that I can remember. Probably everyone else on a cricket pitch, but not a groundsman.
00:04:44
Jamie Bowman
I think there are a few
00:04:44
Tom Evans
I do remember...
00:04:45
Jamie Bowman
There's a few groundsmen around who don't actually want you to play on their pitch, isn't there, I think. I've come across a few of those a few times.
00:04:50
Tom Evans
but
00:04:53
Tom Evans
I remember an end-of-season game.
00:04:53
Matty Jackson
Definitely.
00:04:55
Tom Evans
I won't name the club. It's a club up in the the outer reaches of the of the catchment area. It was literally the last game of the season. And we were losing.
00:05:06
Tom Evans
Whitefield were losing. Whitefield seconds i was playing for. And... um but there hadn't been enough overs bowled to bring DLS into play. um Not that it mattered anyway, because an end of season, dead rubber, nothing to play for or anything.
00:05:19
Tom Evans
And it was chucking it down. And we were walking off the pitch because it was raining. And the the home ground staff were having a go at us because we were fielding at the time. they They were chasing a low target.
00:05:32
Tom Evans
And they were having a go at us for not helping them get the covers back on.
00:05:36
Matty Jackson
Mm-hmm.
00:05:37
Tom Evans
and saying, well, look the game's finished. it's look Look at that. Look at the sky. like It's not going to stop raining. ah But we don't want to we don't want to ruin the pitch. It's September. You haven't got a game here for eight months.
00:05:48
Tom Evans
I'm sure it'll be fine. um But anyway, I don't think I would have had a row with a groundsman the size and stature of of Lee Fortis, who's... um bit of a unit, isn't he?
00:06:00
Tom Evans
And let's face it, he's got access to heavy machinery and he knows a lot about soil density. I think I'd be a little bit wary of going in too hard on him, to be honest, but um
00:06:06
Matty Jackson
yeah
00:06:10
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:06:11
Matty Jackson
that he's ah He's gone at him massively today, hasn't he? but
00:06:14
Tom Evans
he really is, yeah.
Old Trafford Test Match and Fan Experiences
00:06:16
Tom Evans
um A sign, I think, that, you know, I think both England and India are showing signs of i little sort of mental weariness as well as physical physical weariness after what's been a very draining series and I think getting rattled and getting into arguments as ah is a sign of that because um it was bit of a strange end to the Old Trafford test, wasn't i know you were there on the final day, Jamie. and
00:06:38
Jamie Bowman
yeah
00:06:39
Tom Evans
what what From the stands, what did you make of what was going on at the end with ah that the offered handshake and the lollipop bowling from Harry Brook? Yeah.
00:06:47
Jamie Bowman
um Well, I enjoyed it i enjoyed enjoyed it a lot despite you know England's toils and mainly because of the atmosphere. It felt like an Indian home game. It was an incredible atmosphere out in stands.
00:06:58
Tom Evans
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
00:06:59
Jamie Bowman
There was music going on, there was banners cheering. just It was just incredible. And they kind of wiped the floor with us in terms of atmosphere. There was a couple of trumpet bursts and a few desultory kind of great escapes. But apart apart from that, it was just all India.
00:07:18
Jamie Bowman
So... we were kind of surrounded by Indian fans who were loving it. um And it was hard not to get swept along with it, to be honest. So um I was also with my daughter. It was her first test match.
00:07:29
Tom Evans
So we're
00:07:29
Jamie Bowman
And I said to her, said, you're going to see something a bit weird now. And I think that's always good to see something a bit weird, isn't it, on yeah on yeah your first test match? Because mike my first test match was back in 1990.
00:07:43
Jamie Bowman
And I saw a, it was at the Oval and it was India again, England, India. I saw a chap called Narendra Hawani bowl unchanged all day for India, leg spinner with glasses and a headband and he bowled 52 overs in a day, which I think is is a record.
00:07:56
Matty Jackson
Sounds like the little food dump.
00:07:58
Tom Evans
but
00:08:03
Jamie Bowman
So I think it's good to see something a bit weird on your first day
England vs India Series Analysis
00:08:06
Jamie Bowman
of Test cricket. And I had no problem at all. I just thought it was, I just thought it added to the rich tapestry of the the day.
00:08:13
Jamie Bowman
And it was after quite a,
00:08:13
Tom Evans
I think that's a very interesting question.
00:08:15
Jamie Bowman
ah difficult days watched, to be honest. It was nice to end on a bit of stupidity, I thought. I quite enjoyed it. And I had no problem with them doing it either. i i I thought... I don't about you, Matty, as a captain, you've captained a much higher level than I have, but you're always taught to do what the opposition at least wants to happen, aren't you?
00:08:38
Matty Jackson
yeah i mean i think I think anybody in England's position would have tried to get the handshake there and then.
00:08:38
Jamie Bowman
So...
00:08:43
Matty Jackson
I think anybody in India's position would have said no and carried on batting. and I think it was that simple. I think the bigger issue was the comments from the England players after that, wasn't it?
00:08:55
Matty Jackson
which and Whilst I don't agree with, the needle through the entire series has made it even better, hasn't it?
00:08:56
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:09:00
Tom Evans
Well, I
00:09:02
Matty Jackson
The fact that they are going at each other a little bit and
00:09:05
Tom Evans
mean,
00:09:06
Matty Jackson
a little bit here and there. But I mean, I actually, if I was Shudman Gill, I'd have made them field the last 10 overs as well. I'd have left them out there for the rest of the day and carried on going.
00:09:18
Jamie Bowman
yeah
00:09:18
Matty Jackson
and That was a real, real issue.
00:09:18
Tom Evans
yeah
00:09:20
Matty Jackson
But they would have been well within their rights to do that. So no, I would have definitely kept Ingman out there.
00:09:28
Tom Evans
but i mean Harry Brook got a bowl. I think, you know, we don't know who'd have been bowling by the end if they'd made them stay out for 10 more overs. You know, would have had Jamie Smith taking his pads off.
00:09:39
Tom Evans
Would have had Zach Crowley having a go.
00:09:39
Jamie Bowman
He mentioned Dockett, didn't he, and his little ah rant to...
00:09:43
Tom Evans
Yes, yeah.
00:09:45
Jamie Bowman
So, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, if I if i was Gil, I think I'd have declared as well, put them back in.
00:09:50
Matty Jackson
Someone else said that to him me, yeah. That would have been quite amusing. But yeah, I think i suppose saw something today that's probably true. England have been out in the fields for two days.
00:10:01
Matty Jackson
Were they annoyed with India or were they just knackered? Were they just frustrated?
00:10:05
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:10:05
Matty Jackson
Were they just and probably?
00:10:06
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:10:07
Matty Jackson
But no, ah yeah I would have certainly done what India did. Probably carried on a bit longer.
00:10:12
Jamie Bowman
yeah yeah
00:10:13
Tom Evans
Yeah, I don't have a problem with what either side did. You want them to be opposing each other, their opponents, you know. And I think... I do feel like if I was Washington Sundar, I would sort of think... Imagine if he gets a century, a legitimate proper century, without Harry Brook bowling at the Oval now.
00:10:33
Tom Evans
And that's not his first test century anymore. and I do feel like that this it's not Juded Adrian Sundar's fault. It's kind of... This obsession we've got with round number milestones.
00:10:44
Tom Evans
They batted brilliantly. They did a superb job all day in difficult, like not in easy conditions against good bowlers. And they didn't give England a sniff. They did fantastic. They got to 89 and 80.
00:10:57
Tom Evans
those Those are fantastic innings. it's What they ended up doing by slogging Harry Brook and Joe Root for a few sixes, did it cheapen it a little bit?
00:11:08
Tom Evans
Did it put an asterisk next to the whole innings when it didn't deserve... It was good enough as an 80-knot out. Why do you need those last 20 runs?
00:11:16
Jamie Bowman
know, there won't be an asterisk next to it on the honours board, Tom. There won't be an asterisk next to it in wisdom. all there So i think I think, you know, that they created that position for that to happen. that's my That's my view. I think they deserved it. I know what you're saying.
00:11:33
Jamie Bowman
And I could see that was Stokes' point, wasn't it? it said you really I think he said, didn't he, do you really want a century bowling, you know, batting against Harry Brooks?
00:11:43
Jamie Bowman
But there you go.
00:11:44
Matty Jackson
i
00:11:44
Jamie Bowman
I think they created that sent that position for themselves.
00:11:48
Tom Evans
Harry Book has, of course, got Kane Williams outing it in a test match. So, you know.
00:11:51
Matty Jackson
yeah
00:11:51
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:11:52
Tom Evans
Hmm.
00:11:52
Matty Jackson
I think as well, a it's not up to them who bowls and I think that if anything, did it cheapen it? No. Did it reflect badly on England? I think it was a bit bratty. and And I think the other thing, we talk individual milestones, is there an asterisk next to it?
00:12:03
Tom Evans
Hmm.
00:12:07
Matty Jackson
We spent the four days previous talking about Joe Root's individual milestones. ah So it's like, we quick Individual milestones don't matter unless they're the ones we want to talk about.
00:12:18
Matty Jackson
ah
00:12:18
Tom Evans
Okay, yeah.
00:12:19
Matty Jackson
Those lads deserved 100.
00:12:20
Jamie Bowman
Good point.
00:12:22
Matty Jackson
If they decided as a team that that's what they should do, fine. But we have literally just spent the entire four days previous talking about individual milestones.
00:12:30
Tom Evans
Yeah, and I think not so much with Root. I think Root is better liked than his predecessor as England's leading run scorer, Alistair Cook. I think there are quarters of England cricket fans who did exactly that with Alistair Cook and some of his runs much less fairly. like They listed the bowling attacks that Cook scored his runs against and said, ah, well, but that's not as impressive as what but these players did in the past.
00:12:48
Matty Jackson
Yeah. yeah
00:12:56
Tom Evans
You know, scored easy runs against bad bowlers. And i don't know. I think, yeah, I take your point that, like, individual achievements do matter and the game would be a lot lesser without them. You know, we could all, I'm sure...
00:13:11
Tom Evans
veal off the highest individual scores in test and first-class cricket. We couldn't do the same with the highest team scores.
00:13:19
Matty Jackson
Yeah, absolutely.
00:13:19
Jamie Bowman
No, true, true, true.
00:13:21
Tom Evans
And it's a team game, you know.
00:13:23
Jamie Bowman
I think going back to the going back to the needle, i'm I'm loving the reaction in Australia as well.
00:13:23
Tom Evans
So...
00:13:28
Jamie Bowman
It seems to have really wound them up, doesn't it? So it's ah it's it's really, I've saying ah seen a few comments, Malcolm Conn, for example, and people like that.
00:13:33
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:13:37
Matty Jackson
I saw that, yeah.
00:13:37
Tom Evans
Oh, yeah, England have lost Malcolm Conn.
00:13:38
Jamie Bowman
yeah
00:13:40
Tom Evans
Oh,
00:13:43
Tom Evans
What a show sign that what they did was objectively wrong, that Malcolm Cohn doesn't agree with it, you know.
00:13:43
Jamie Bowman
But it's... um
00:13:48
Jamie Bowman
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's just, it's it's ramping up the needle for not only this series, but the series to come, isn't it? So, yeah.
00:13:55
Matty Jackson
yeah It's indirectly started the ashes off, hasn't it? Which is not a bad thing.
00:13:57
Jamie Bowman
yeah you
00:13:58
Matty Jackson
So I think,
00:13:59
Jamie Bowman
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:00
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:14:00
Jamie Bowman
Brilliant, brilliant.
Ormskirk's Success and Ian Cobain's Performance
00:14:01
Matty Jackson
yeah, which is even better.
00:14:03
Matty Jackson
and But yeah, no, I think it's been great. I think the needle has made it better. More of it.
00:14:10
Tom Evans
Yeah, absolutely. sure we've all agreed on that. um Good stuff. um Locally, ah anyone who thinks I talk too much about Ormskirk should stop listening for the next few minutes.
00:14:24
Tom Evans
Ormskirk are 50 points clear in the Premier Division um and they are through to the semis of the national that national knockout. A fantastic achievement away. A good side in South Northumberland on Sunday. um They defended 10 off the last over and had it been a tie they would have lost on wickets.
00:14:44
Tom Evans
um So that that that they were they were two runs away from losing and they managed to hold it off and ah get through to get through that national final. Great achievement for them and also win over win over their closest rivals on Saturday in in Northern. um as kind of it's It's still the so eight games left. It's a bit early to count any chickens, but it's looking very, very good for them. They have got a very good chance of being the first side since the 1960s to win three Liverpool competitions in a row.
00:15:13
Tom Evans
the yeah The great Birkenhead Park side of your Tony Schillinglaws et al were the last to do three in a row in the 1960s. So even you know the great Ormsgirch and Boutal sides of the 80s and 90s didn't manage that kind of consistency. um So yeah, fat fair play to them. They're having a great season.
00:15:32
Tom Evans
um Looking a little bit further down the Premier Division, Formby's Ian Cobain made 188 not out at Boutal, which is the highest individual score in the top flight in the I sort call it the play cricket era, as in the era in which play cricket is reliable.
00:15:50
Tom Evans
im But i think a more ah more sensible cutoff is 2010, which is when the comp went to three divisions, so um so the which affects the quality and the you know the number of games you're playing and the and the quality of opposition you're going to facing. 188 was the highest individual score. And for me lost, Boothal managed to chase 290, which was an excellent achievement for them.
00:16:12
Jamie Bowman
he's He's averaging something in the 90s, isn't he, or something extraordinary this season.
00:16:17
Matty Jackson
Nearly 2,000 away.
00:16:18
Tom Evans
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he and...
00:16:20
Jamie Bowman
It's Bradman-esque.
00:16:22
Tom Evans
He's on 900-plus runs in the league already um with with eight games to go.
00:16:27
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:16:29
Tom Evans
So, yeah, he's having a fantastic summer. Yeah.
00:16:32
Jamie Bowman
He's had an interesting career, isn't he? Because obviously a bit of a late starter and... and and you know, didn't didn't really make it at Lancashire and then has gone off and done well at Gloucestershire, wasn't it, he'd but he played for.
00:16:45
Jamie Bowman
And and and and yeah, yeah, played in played in the big bash as well.
00:16:45
Tom Evans
yeah captain for some as well
00:16:50
Jamie Bowman
Yeah, quite so quite late in his career, I suppose, really. And now obviously come back to like play club cricket where his his dad, you know, his dad was so well missed as well.
00:17:02
Jamie Bowman
So yeah, really well played in really interesting few years he's had, I think.
00:17:09
Tom Evans
Definitely, yeah. sir Clearly a very good player in the in the form of his life as well. You do get some sort of responses saying, oh, well, he's ah of course he's doing well, he's a professional cricketer.
00:17:20
Tom Evans
There are lots of professional cricketers or former professional cricketers at that level um who aren't doing as well. Matty McKinnon, for example, is having a very, very good season. um I think we said last week he's 120 behind in the league.
00:17:31
Tom Evans
and the lake um Cobain obviously hasn't played as many Cup games because they haven't done quite as well in the Cups. um And also Cobain himself hasn't done as well in other seasons. So I do think it is worth worth pointing out the kind of the kind of numbers he's putting up this summer.
Matty Jackson's Cricket Career and Liverpool Team
00:17:47
Tom Evans
um Very impressive....
00:17:49
Jamie Bowman
Well, have you come across him much, Matty?
00:17:51
Matty Jackson
um Came across him as a junior a little bit. and Really nice lad. Really, really nice lad. We played Formby last year in the T20. We provided a pitch that was probably our best chance of winning. We went with like a day nine Mumbai.
00:18:09
Matty Jackson
and ah we We picked everyone who'd ever bowled spin at Liverpool. And it worked to some degree. We very nearly won the game, but Coey got 69 out and Formby won. and At one stage, he just looked at me and just said, are you ever going to go to SEMA? I said, absolutely not, no.
00:18:28
Matty Jackson
But yeah, it was, you talk about, he's played, obviously he's won the 100, I think. Did he, lee was he 100 winners?
00:18:34
Tom Evans
Yes, I'm pretty sure he did with the Trent rockets.
00:18:37
Matty Jackson
Oh, yeah, he played the big batch.
00:18:38
Jamie Bowman
Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.
00:18:38
Matty Jackson
And when you look at that kind of game that we played last year, he was probably 60 off 70 balls and a low-scoring one. and
00:18:45
Tom Evans
Mm-hmm.
00:18:46
Matty Jackson
There was one over where he clearly tried to go after it. And other than that, he just, honestly, he just scored off more balls than anybody else. There was just no stock balls.
00:18:54
Tom Evans
Mm-hmm.
00:18:55
Matty Jackson
I think it was that simple. Well, it's not simple, is it? But and there was no fireworks. It was just control, I would say. Yeah. and i think he does it all whilst just being a really nice lad and i think there's even more to be said for that
00:19:12
Tom Evans
Definitely.
00:19:12
Jamie Bowman
He he.
00:19:12
Tom Evans
um Speaking in Liverpool, Matty, it's going going pretty well. um As I said to say, now you're not captain anymore, but if youre but the correlation is there.
00:19:19
Matty Jackson
yeah that's yeah you're not the first point now um yeah it is it is going well we're having a good year i think
00:19:21
Tom Evans
I'm not saying it's causation, but you know.
00:19:31
Matty Jackson
In terms of new captains and stuff coming in, it was just the right time for everybody. and It was the right time for me, 100%. It was the right time for Jared, who took over. He was definitely ready to do that. and We played a game at Springview probably this time last year, maybe a bit later.
00:19:50
Matty Jackson
And I started to give a team talk and I just said, oh, for God's sake, if if you're not going listen to me now, it's been nine years and I'm going to say the same stuff. And it was that day that I just thought I am saying the same stuff. um So, no, I think it was the right thing in the off season and it's just great.
00:20:07
Matty Jackson
We've gone pretty young in the first team.
00:20:09
Tom Evans
um, yeah, um, um,
00:20:10
Matty Jackson
And yeah, it's been really, really good. Obviously, nine left, I think. and But we are in the position that everybody would want to be in. and it's in our hands I think that's that's probably the best we can hope for at this stage but no it's been it's been really good and I've really enjoyed it as well
00:20:28
Tom Evans
Good stuff.
00:20:28
Jamie Bowman
Thank
00:20:28
Tom Evans
I'm just thinking nine years as a skipper. I think before stepping down, I think you would probably have been second to James Cole at Northern as the longest serving.
00:20:39
Matty Jackson
Yeah, i think it was Ferthy obviously stepped down just before at Southport.
00:20:39
Tom Evans
you think anybody of any others? Yes.
00:20:44
Matty Jackson
I think probably me, James and Ferthy, who incidentally all grew playing a lot of cricket against each other.
00:20:45
Tom Evans
Yes.
00:20:52
Matty Jackson
and So, yeah, nine years. Yeah, long time. ah
00:20:58
Tom Evans
I
00:20:59
Matty Jackson
and And as you rightly pointed out, going into August, we were never 25 points clear at the top of the league. So, yeah.
00:21:05
Tom Evans
um i feel i feel I should point out you took, you know, you the year you went up from Division 2, you dominated pretty much every game, didn't you? I think you did lot one game you lost all season and and and in that Division 2 season, so...
00:21:17
Matty Jackson
I think they weret beaten where we weren't we?
00:21:19
Tom Evans
Hmm?
00:21:19
Matty Jackson
I thought we were unbeaten.
00:21:21
Tom Evans
Quite possibly, yeah.
00:21:23
Matty Jackson
I think we did unbeaten.
00:21:24
Tom Evans
I remember Pretty much every week you had the two Daniels, um Club and Kelly, taking all the wickets, didn't you?
00:21:30
Matty Jackson
Yes. Yeah. We, that year Clubby had moved to Liverpool, um, and, uh, DK, I'd obviously realised the grass was greener across the park. Sorry, Jamie, I'm only joking.
00:21:43
Matty Jackson
Um, but year we, we'd obviously managed to win.
00:21:44
Tom Evans
He's not is
00:21:49
Matty Jackson
I think especially at that stage, probably even now, no disrespect to anybody.
00:21:49
Tom Evans
i
00:21:53
Matty Jackson
They were probably too good as an opening pair to be playing division two cricket.
00:21:57
Tom Evans
Mm-hmm.
00:21:57
Matty Jackson
Well, as proven, really, because DK, Dan Kelly went on to play prime cricket for Raynail and dominate Div 1.
00:21:57
Tom Evans
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:22:02
Matty Jackson
Clubby's done three or four more years, taking 60 wickets a year in Div 1. So, yeah, it was from a captaincy perspective, I think that was probably the easiest year I've ever had.
00:22:14
Tom Evans
ah and
00:22:15
Matty Jackson
Not simply because we were winning games, but because there wasn't a hell of a lot of thought process behind it. Those two were taking so many wickets with the new ball that we we were ahead in
00:22:22
Tom Evans
yeah
00:22:26
Matty Jackson
probably nearly every game we played in the league that year. So there wasn't, they put us miles ahead of those games.
00:22:29
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:22:32
Matty Jackson
So yeah, and obviously a very different makeup to the team now. We've got a few new lads in this year actually as well. and
00:22:39
Tom Evans
yeah
00:22:39
Matty Jackson
A lot younger and it needed a younger voice lead in it. And Jared has been, as I expected, Jared has been absolutely super, very different to myself, and but in ah in a very good way. I had no doubts that he would do as well as he has been.
00:22:53
Jamie Bowman
And yeah you'd be ready ready for a Premier League campaign, do you think? Touch wood.
00:22:59
Matty Jackson
Touchwood, yeah, I think so. I think in previous years, the last sort of two years, we've come close. and A, I'm a firm believer there's no good or bad luck. It's 22 weeks. It's literally half a year.
00:23:11
Matty Jackson
Whoever finishes in the top two is the two best teams in the league. I don't think there's any... any arguments over that and we haven't been in that too I probably think we weren't quite ready as well and I think this year looking at the age of the team and where we're at I think it's as good a year as any to just kind of say why not like it's what's the point in in not wanting that as the goal? and Not suggesting that we will, there's a lot work, a lot of teams up there, but I think it's the most that we've, as a group, kind of thought, yeah, let's give it a crack and and see where we get to.
00:23:46
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:23:48
Matty Jackson
And I will put my hand up and be very, very unavailable for Ormskirchen more than away next year.
00:23:55
Tom Evans
Obviously, you've got some players in the group, like Sir Finn-Hulbert, Rob Rankin, Alex Rankin, who've played a lot of Premier League cricket in the past. and you know that that doubt They can obviously make the step up. It's helpful to have guys like that around, I guess, if you do if if it does come off and you do get promoted.
00:24:12
Matty Jackson
i think so yeah i think you know obviously we've had alex and robert now for for the two years finn just for this year finn is is very much sort of still thinking in that way, if that makes sense, in a good way.
00:24:24
Tom Evans
So
00:24:25
Matty Jackson
You know, if you look at our Cup campaigns this year, we we we lost to Lee and to Rainhill, both on Duckworth Lewis, and where I think it's very fair to say the games were very even.
00:24:28
Tom Evans
I think.
00:24:39
Matty Jackson
and So I think we've proven that we can we can hold our own amongst some of those teams. I think you've got to look at you know that league It's like a Super League, isn't it?
00:24:50
Matty Jackson
now That comp-prem is the standard of cricket in some of those games. It's just incredible. you know You look at some of the scorecards and you've got... You know you mentioned Dormskate before, but i would Tom Hartley, i was watching play for England last year and he's bowling all the time.
00:24:58
Tom Evans
Mm-hmm.
00:25:04
Matty Jackson
there's It is a Super League and to compete will be will extremely difficult, but we won't be going in with lads who haven't done it before. um As you say, with Rob and Al and Finn and...
00:25:16
Matty Jackson
Just the lads this year and doing well in the cup competitions. I think the way we've done, the way we've competed in those games, you know, it kind of has made people think, well, maybe we could compete, and you know, maybe not 22 weeks, and but hopefully enough.
00:25:29
Tom Evans
That's great.
00:25:31
Matty Jackson
But that being said, we've still a hell of a lot of work to do to get there. And I think that'll be just as hard as as as anything when we get up there.
00:25:40
Tom Evans
And some some good sides, obviously, knocking on the door and hoping so hoping you do slip up and i hoping they can take advantage, such as Springview, for example, who they've, ah I think, lost three in a row now, but they were going going really well at the top. um Obviously, still a good side. They're through to the Ray Tyler Cup final as of Sunday a again against Sefton Park. Jamie, there must be ah but be a lot of happy faces around the club at that.
00:26:02
Tom Evans
like Big day coming up.
00:26:03
Jamie Bowman
yeah Yeah, it was a really good weekend for the for the for the club, actually. A couple of wins Saturday and Sunday and they seem to have really hit some form at the right time this season, up to up to fifth, I think.
00:26:14
Tom Evans
So, if you can just say, don't say, I'm going to mention it.
00:26:17
Jamie Bowman
And yeah, as you say, a really, really big performance in the in this in the semi-final again against Magoal. And yeah, so yeah it's looking good.
00:26:28
Jamie Bowman
James Sterling, we mentioned him earlier, leading the team really well in Paul Horton's sir holiday absence at the moment. And some excellent bowling from Zephyr. He's doing a great job with the ball.
00:26:43
Jamie Bowman
Jimmy Dixon just keeps going. Another Pfeiffer at the weekend. And yeah, we're looking looking looking pretty good at the moment.
00:26:52
Tom Evans
Good stuff. and Speaking of Josefa and James, they're two of the players who are taking part in the Tateball World Cup, aren't they? um Which ah has been taking place at Liverpool College over the past week or so.
Tateball World Cup and Talent Engagement
00:27:05
Tom Evans
Matty, I take it you've been quite involved with with with with some of those games. Has it been been good fun?
00:27:10
Matty Jackson
Do you know why it has been good fun? That is the the the kind of exactly how I'd describe it. Obviously, we've been kind of know if we've been involved in the organisation, but i actually played in the last game for England.
00:27:19
Tom Evans
Mm-hmm.
00:27:20
Matty Jackson
and Yeah, it was fun. I think that is the the the best way I can describe it. I think we talk about... you know, going to play against teams that have got England players and that's how you give up your Saturday and it's so intense, it's so difficult at times that I think we forget that you're allowed to have fun and and it was it was really fun, that is how I'd describe it.
00:27:44
Matty Jackson
It was quick, mad, different, definitely different.
00:27:46
Tom Evans
Couldn't
00:27:49
Matty Jackson
and You know, the first game, I'm in the i'm in the England squad, and sort like a James Milner role, I think. I'm...
00:27:57
Jamie Bowman
yeah
00:27:57
Matty Jackson
ah
00:27:58
Tom Evans
couldn you have chosen a cricketer?
00:27:58
Matty Jackson
i
00:27:59
Tom Evans
Go on.
00:28:00
Matty Jackson
Yeah, it's like coming in as the 15th man in a squad of 15 when people need a rest, I think.
00:28:02
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:28:05
Matty Jackson
but and But we played against them against Afghanistan in the first game. Now, the a lot of the lads from the Afghanistan team are at Liverpool, where I am playing a lot of third and fourth team cricket.
00:28:16
Tom Evans
Thank you.
00:28:18
Matty Jackson
They've played a lot of tape ball and they absolutely battered a bunch of lads who are playing first team prem every week. It is different. and But yeah, it's been fun. It's been really enjoyable. um And we go again tomorrow. We've got two games tomorrow, two games Friday. So and no, I've really enjoyed it. Yeah, it's been great.
00:28:38
Jamie Bowman
And Matt, is it just all free to watch? You can just wander down to the college and and join in, yeah?
00:28:43
Matty Jackson
Yeah, Wander down Liverpool College. So we have games at seven o'clock and 8.30. and And it's on YouTube as well. But yeah, it's been a great atmosphere.
00:28:54
Matty Jackson
We have been getting a few people coming down to work, there's been barbecue on, been a DJ on.
00:28:54
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:28:58
Matty Jackson
And ah yeah, there's people smiling and enjoying just playing cricket. And I think perhaps we don't do enough of that. I know I certainly don't. So um I've really enjoyed being a part of it.
00:29:09
Matty Jackson
Yeah, massively.
00:29:10
Jamie Bowman
ah that Out of interest, are there a few players playing who aren't like attached to clubs, who are just you know playing and enjoying it? you know like I'm just thinking of doing a bit of talent spotting, you know a bit of scouting. Are there any good players we should be looking out for?
00:29:25
Matty Jackson
So, yeah, I mean, the first game on the first night was Bangladesh were playing. And obviously, through having linked to the cricket community, I looked through the squad lists and I knew people in each team. I didn't in the Bangladesh side.
00:29:38
Matty Jackson
Ladu has come out and opened the bat in an absolute... I think he got to 50 in the third over. and But and there are players involved who I don't know to be attached to local clubs.
00:29:45
Tom Evans
Thank you.
00:29:50
Matty Jackson
and And I think that's been a big thing for me in terms of You know the cricket community we've got might be a little bit bigger than we thought perhaps. And how are we engaging in these lads in playing more regular cricket if that's what they want?
00:30:05
Matty Jackson
You know, getting involved in clubs, doing more stuff like this, because I think, ah rightly or wrongly, just assume that we kind of know everyone who was playing a little bit and it's not been the case at all.
00:30:08
Jamie Bowman
Mm-hmm.
00:30:17
Matty Jackson
um So one thing we are going to do at at the end of the week is sort of, sorry, the end of next week, we're going to do a bit of a player survey for those who took part in it.
00:30:18
Tom Evans
And..
00:30:26
Matty Jackson
and to just learn a bit more. and Where are they playing?
00:30:32
Tom Evans
yeah
00:30:33
Matty Jackson
Are they playing? Do they want to play? Because there are people I know to not be involved in in local clubs and are we missing those people? and Or do they want to be missed? You don't know, do you? So we're hoping to find out a little bit more about that, I think.
00:30:50
Tom Evans
It's interesting. It's something written about a couple of times that, you know, particularly thinking of the Liverpool South Asian community, um i think there does seem to be some barriers. it Certainly the clubs that have a big ah big South Asian contingency, I'm thinking of ah South Liverpool, the Sports and Cultural Club, um the teams that play out of Nugent Park, the Super Kings, for example.
00:31:13
Tom Evans
um There are sort of No one's intentionally putting barriers in place, but there's barriers to new clubs becoming established because they haven't got a They're nomadic.
Challenges in Establishing New Cricket Clubs
00:31:25
Tom Evans
South Liverpool managed to find a home over on the Wirral earlier this season, which is great, but it's unrealistic to expect other clubs to be able to do the same because this isn't the space.
00:31:39
Tom Evans
There just cricket pitches lying dormant, not being used.
00:31:40
Jamie Bowman
Hmm.
00:31:43
Tom Evans
So it's kind of... is there a way of integrating the players or integrating the clubs that they already play at? you know um Because, like you said, that the the the community is bigger than is bigger than we give it credit for, I think.
00:31:56
Matty Jackson
I think so, and and and perhaps I'm not suggesting what we've hit hit on here is is the answer either, but is there something outside of mainstream cricket that we're doing right now that would engage more people?
00:32:07
Matty Jackson
and We're all very familiar with games starting on a Saturday lunchtime and timed cricket. I'm not going to get into that debate, by the way.
00:32:15
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:32:16
Matty Jackson
and and And then Sunday cricket, is instead of course, that's what we're familiar with. That's what we know. and Is there something else we can do? i don't have the answer. I'm hoping to try and learn more.
00:32:28
Tom Evans
who
00:32:29
Matty Jackson
But yeah, is that, well, there has to be more, I think. I think this has shown it by saying, but quite what the answer is, I'm not sure.
00:32:38
Tom Evans
No, but it's ah it's definitely interesting that um the Tateball World Cup has kind of just seems to have cracked the door open a little bit. so
00:32:45
Matty Jackson
Hopefully.
00:32:46
Tom Evans
so
00:32:46
Matty Jackson
Hopefully.
00:32:48
Tom Evans
Good stuff. um Jamie, was there any other local cricket happenings you wanted to mention?
00:32:53
Jamie Bowman
Well, yeah, one one result that really caught my eye this week this weekend was in the Cheshire County Cricket League Division
Maritime Cricket Club's Victory and Lancashire Highlights
00:33:00
Jamie Bowman
1. We're talking about about these these these teams maybe that that that operate a little bit outside of things. Maritime Cricket Club on the Wirral are one of those. I think, again, i mean mainly South Asian teams.
00:33:14
Jamie Bowman
um And they they they got promoted to Division One of the Cheshire County Cricket League last year. And ah they managed to they managed to rack up a score of 423 for five of 50 overs on Saturday against Davenham.
00:33:30
Jamie Bowman
And then bowled Davenham out for 63. So that's um that's a pretty big win. 360 run win. in ah in in league cricket. So well played well-played Maritime.
00:33:42
Jamie Bowman
I think there was one century and four half centuries in that. But 4-2-3 off 50 overs, not bad going. So so take a bow Maritime, ah a club I'd probably need to know a bit more about seeing as they're on my patch.
00:33:56
Jamie Bowman
but So if anyone from Maritime is listening, wants to get in touch, I'd love to talk to you.
00:33:57
Tom Evans
say
00:34:02
Tom Evans
Excellent. Yeah. wellre Well, well done to everyone there. um i think last time we spoke, this is probably the shortest gap we've had between episodes. I think Jamie, um last time we spoke with, with David Prentice, we were talking about Lancashire's resurgence in the County Championship. um Obviously they had another win over last week, didn't they? With Tom Hartley, we mentioned earlier getting a century and two five for some, uh,
00:34:25
Tom Evans
Yeah, ah great individual performance from him, great team performance from Lancashire. I think, yeah, things definitely they definitely seem to have turned a corner.
00:34:33
Jamie Bowman
with that Hartley innings, we've really got to put it in perspective. He's one of only four players, ah four four times it's ever happened. And I think Liam Dawson's done it twice, believe it or not.
00:34:43
Jamie Bowman
And Rian Ahmed did it even on the same day that Hartley did. And the yeah the the other player Richard Hadley. So he's in pretty good company. So, yeah, I mean, a great a great advert for the comp.
00:34:50
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:34:53
Jamie Bowman
as well. you know A player who's come through, played in the comp, played for England. and and you know i watched him bowl today actually for Lancashire. He was putting it on the right spot.
00:35:04
Jamie Bowman
and you You do wonder, it b seems to have been a bit forgotten about this summer after some great performances for England over the winter. so Perhaps that that performance has made a few selectors rethink rethink his prospects.
00:35:19
Tom Evans
Yeah, well I wonder if England would would ever select him when they're only going choosing one spinner. um I'm not sure they would. Well, you know maybe, like you say, maybe his performances can change their mind on that, but they've they've not done that so far.
00:35:32
Tom Evans
um And I was sort of wondering whether he might be an outside bet as a backup for for the winter, for the Ashes, were it not for the fact that, as you said, Rayan Ahmed has just done the same thing, just scored a big century, and he's got another century today, hasn't he?
00:35:47
Tom Evans
um So he's building
00:35:47
Matty Jackson
So they, uh,
00:35:47
Jamie Bowman
Yeah, he's got another ton today. I mean, he really is having an extraordinary season. So, yeah, I mean, he's probably probably a very long shot for Tom, but fair play to him.
00:35:53
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:35:58
Jamie Bowman
You know, he' is is is he's still doing it and he wasn't getting in the county team at the start. And as you were saying, he was playing quite a lot of comp cricket this season. So, yeah, fair play to him.
00:36:10
Jamie Bowman
He's still knocking on the door and he's still pretty young as well, isn't he?
00:36:14
Tom Evans
Definitely, yeah. So, um yeah, all going well for Lancashire the moment. Obviously, we're recording this on Tuesday night after day one of Lancashire's game against Glamorgan, aren't we?
00:36:26
Tom Evans
So I'll try and get it out as as soon as possible so it's says so it's as timely as possible. was trying to make these episodes episodes timeless in case anyone is digging back through the archive.
00:36:34
Jamie Bowman
Hmm.
00:36:36
Tom Evans
Yeah. which um obviously we don't want to dissuade because you know listeners um speaking of features which will keep the listeners coming back um I think it's time to ask our guests to take the floor and um give us his submissions for dressing room 101 which is the regular feature in which our guests give us their theyre cricketing irritations or bugbears and Jamie and I run the rule over them and decide if if they are annoying enough to get into dressing room 101 so Matty Jackson what have you got for us
00:37:05
Matty Jackson
I think you've got to appreciate I'm 10 years older than everyone in the Liverpool first team now, so
Young Cricketers' Energy and Development Concerns
00:37:09
Matty Jackson
this could be a long list, to be honest. and But, yeah, just young people in the changing room in general, and they...
00:37:10
Jamie Bowman
We're just kids.
00:37:11
Tom Evans
It's just young people. yeah
00:37:18
Tom Evans
Oh, well, it is. Okay.
00:37:20
Matty Jackson
and they are They can't sit still. So you, and surely we're all in agreement. If you are chasing, you sit in the same seat, you can't move, can you?
00:37:31
Matty Jackson
You can't move when there's a good partnership. They're jumping off chairs. They're lapping, lapping should go in there as well, to be completely honest. You should should all sit together.
00:37:42
Matty Jackson
So lapping and moving round when in the changing room, just sit down and relax.
00:37:43
Tom Evans
what
00:37:49
Matty Jackson
um and don't laugh that's my first one for you
00:37:54
Tom Evans
Okay, so it's the the laughter of children ah yeah is the thing that annoys you more than anything else, right?
00:37:56
Jamie Bowman
yeah
00:37:57
Matty Jackson
happiness people being happier
00:38:01
Jamie Bowman
as hate
00:38:02
Matty Jackson
ah
00:38:02
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:38:05
Tom Evans
So yeah is it on is it on superstition grounds? do you Have you noticed times when people have been moving around and breaking the taboo and then someone's got out and...
00:38:13
Matty Jackson
thing i think about the superstition i think it's just a dumb thing isn't it like just just sit down just yeah they they're so active they've got too much energy um just relax and watch the cricket don't laugh it's still just in
00:38:28
Jamie Bowman
Do you try and engage them? do you try and talk to them, Matty? Or is that just a non-starter? Are they on their mobile devices looking at TikTok or whatever it is young people do?
00:38:39
Matty Jackson
you know what they are a good group guys
00:38:39
Tom Evans
about la-bubu and eating matcha. but
00:38:43
Matty Jackson
they are they are yeah that They are a good group of guys, but um yeah, they just need to sit still, don't they? They just need to sit still. I blame the 100 somehow. Shorten cricket, they're't they're not used to sitting there all day. and But yeah, laughing, moving round, anything like that, gone.
00:38:58
Tom Evans
and yeah
00:39:03
Tom Evans
You were young once, Matty.
00:39:05
Matty Jackson
Yeah.
00:39:05
Tom Evans
Surely. You were that young buck in the and the changing room, annoying the old timers with your enthusiasm and happiness.
00:39:14
Matty Jackson
Yeah, but we've got 10 of them now. Like, we've got a really young team.
00:39:16
Tom Evans
Yes.
00:39:17
Matty Jackson
Like, I feel like I'm kind of out there on my own. Finn Hulbert, he can sit with me, but the rest of them, and yeah, rest of them, they're too young.
00:39:29
Tom Evans
Right. i I don't know. Is there anything specific they do? I'm just to nail down exactly what year what you're putting in dressing room 101 here. Is it...
00:39:39
Matty Jackson
um I'm going put lapping, lapping when you're batting. Sit with your team, though.
00:39:43
Tom Evans
Laughing on your... Right.
00:39:44
Matty Jackson
Lapping, going for a lap.
00:39:46
Tom Evans
Just non-cricket related things. Like not if someone hits a big six and they laugh at what a good shot it was. ah
00:39:53
Matty Jackson
Lapping, so going for a lap.
00:39:55
Tom Evans
Laughing.
00:39:56
Matty Jackson
Yeah, gone.
00:39:57
Jamie Bowman
laughing Tom, you don't feel walk around the ground.
00:39:57
Tom Evans
i thought you said laughing.
00:40:00
Matty Jackson
Yep, go.
00:40:00
Tom Evans
I know what lapping means, I just thought that thought it wasn't what he said.
00:40:03
Matty Jackson
Yep, sit down, sit down and watch the game.
00:40:03
Tom Evans
but
00:40:06
Matty Jackson
Quietly, ideally.
00:40:08
Tom Evans
But everyone everyone laps. that's ah that startup but That's a pretty universal cricket. It's right for runs, left for wickets, isn't it? that's that's what If there's a saying about it, if there's a superstition about the thing itself, then then it must be a traditional thing.
00:40:24
Matty Jackson
but I have an issue with this because hi I field when you're bowling, i don't go for a lap and have a wander while you're bowling. So when I'm batting, you should sit and watch and support. People go for a lap. They are not watching the game. Boundary Bowls is happening.
00:40:39
Matty Jackson
It's... a
00:40:41
Tom Evans
but well you mentioned You mentioned Finn. and Finn, I've noticed, is a Boundary Bowls player.
00:40:47
Matty Jackson
Finn is a Boundary Bowls player.
00:40:48
Tom Evans
Lee, love a game of Boundary Bowls.
00:40:50
Matty Jackson
Finn is a Boundary Bowls player. You are very right with that.
00:40:53
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:40:54
Matty Jackson
So Finn can get in there as well.
00:40:55
Tom Evans
You're putting all your teammates in dressing room 101. Is that what you're saying?
00:40:59
Matty Jackson
Yeah, let's put them all in. Yeah, put them all
00:41:01
Jamie Bowman
why why did you Why did you resign the captaincy, Matty?
00:41:05
Tom Evans
He lost the dressing room.
00:41:07
Matty Jackson
in. I didn't resign anything.
00:41:11
Matty Jackson
I didn't resign anything.
00:41:15
Tom Evans
and um'm You can probably tell which way I'm leaning on this. I feel like ah feel like people it's good to have people who are enthusiastic. and ah yeah um i'm astonished that anybody doesn't like the walking around the get walking around the pitch during the game is so universal. that um
00:41:34
Matty Jackson
shouldn't
00:41:34
Tom Evans
and but Most of my social life involves talking to cricketers who are walking past my bench when their team's batting. That's
00:41:41
Jamie Bowman
It's the only steps I get in, to be honest. You know, so. Yeah, and i i like
00:41:49
Tom Evans
I
00:41:50
Jamie Bowman
I don't think we can pass this one, Tom.
00:41:52
Tom Evans
i don't think we can. it see It's going to be a no from me. Do you agree, Jamie?
00:41:56
Jamie Bowman
It's a no from me. Sorry, Matty.
00:41:58
Matty Jackson
that's fine
00:42:04
Tom Evans
Okay.
00:42:05
Matty Jackson
ah well
00:42:05
Tom Evans
Fazeer Muhammad agrees. on.
00:42:07
Matty Jackson
One will be very contentious for you for the timed cricket enthusiasts, but bowling all day from one end bowling all day from one end, that needs to go now. and ah from ah From a personal perspective, i i do I don't want to face the best bowler for 25 overs.
00:42:25
Matty Jackson
and
00:42:25
Jamie Bowman
Bye.
00:42:26
Matty Jackson
But from a more serious perspective, I think it's probably stunting the development of other cricketers. I think bowling all day from one end. i am not getting into a timed cricket debate, but I do think we need to limit overs.
00:42:40
Matty Jackson
For bowlers, sorry, I should say.
00:42:41
Tom Evans
We said, when we were talking about the test match earlier, you said um always do what the opposition least wants you to do.
00:42:50
Matty Jackson
Yep.
00:42:50
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:42:52
Tom Evans
Surely what the opposition least wants you to do would be to bowl your best bowler as much as possible.
00:42:57
Matty Jackson
Oh, stop using my own words against me. Yeah, but I think we need to look at what are we? What are we? Are we ah yeah are we ah are we an elite level of sport or are we a recreational sport? I think at times we're somewhere in the middle, aren't we?
00:43:12
Matty Jackson
If we're on it.
00:43:12
Tom Evans
Yeah, think a bit both, honestly.
00:43:13
Jamie Bowman
Thank you.
00:43:14
Matty Jackson
I think there is a bit of both, but I think and think now, I actually think it's worse, worse in inverted commas, in Division 1 than it is in the Prem.
00:43:26
Matty Jackson
It has been. and But I
00:43:28
Tom Evans
Yeah, I think just from looking at the scorecards, the overseas pro spinners dominate the wickets more, certainly in Division 2 and Division 1, than they do in the Prem.
00:43:39
Tom Evans
I think that's fair.
00:43:40
Matty Jackson
I think so.
00:43:40
Jamie Bowman
um not ah not I'm not um'm not singling anyone out, but I think Caldys Pro bowled 30 overs, didn't he, on Saturday, I think, if I looked.
00:43:49
Tom Evans
And, you know, we you know look ah ah I do take your point, and but, you know, why wouldn't you if if he's fit enough to bowl 30 overs?
00:43:49
Matty Jackson
like
00:43:56
Tom Evans
Because I know he's a spinner, but still, you know, i couldn't twindle up for 30 over even if I was any good at bowling because I'm not fit enough. even yeah But there's, you know, the it's not easy to be
00:44:07
Matty Jackson
I did it. I did it as captain. I remember, I think it was Ainsdale two years ago. We didn't make a bowling change all day. We did it with two. and And Steve Lucas at Ainsdale, who I got on very, very well with, was less than complimentary towards me when I was fielding on the boundary.
00:44:23
Matty Jackson
And I completely agreed. and We were doing what we felt we had to do that to win that game, but I don't agree with it in general. um i think now, i think we need to limit bowlers' overs. I think it's...
00:44:37
Matty Jackson
it's hard work for the batters we've got to face 25 overs of somebody who's played five test matches uh for one development for other players but i think from a captaincy perspective as well i think it takes out a lot of the tactical battle
00:44:43
Tom Evans
but
00:44:51
Tom Evans
yeah at I there's things to be said for both both sides I think we talk a lot about who who are these young players who aren't developing because of the first spinners bowling all day from one end where are they
00:45:07
Matty Jackson
i I don't know as individuals, but I think if you went through a lot of scorecards in Division 1 and Division 2, do you have young lads batting eight and lower and not bowling? I think you'd find the answer would probably be yes.
00:45:19
Tom Evans
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:22
Matty Jackson
I think you'd find the answer would be yes.
00:45:25
Tom Evans
See, um um I agree with you in principle. I'm not a fan of putting a hard limit on the number of overs a bowl is allowed to bowl because I think that sets us off on the way to losing timed cricket, which I know is a separate issue almost, but it would set us on the way because teams would have to pick a limited overside if they didn't know how long they're going to be in the field for.
00:45:52
Matty Jackson
i I'm going to argue that on 2.1.
00:45:52
Tom Evans
You know... Mm-hmm.
00:45:54
Matty Jackson
I'm not saying it's five bowlers of 10. I'm saying, you know, maybe 15, maybe whatever. and But I think it would go some way to saving time cricket, to be honest, because I think a lot of people who are anti-timed cricket at times is, oh, God's sake, someone's just bowling 25 over someone. and I think I am.
00:46:15
Jamie Bowman
usually a's not Usually a slow left arm.
00:46:19
Matty Jackson
Yeah, and that is the entire game at times. and and So i actually I actually disagree. I think it could revitalise timed cricket.
00:46:30
Tom Evans
Okay.
00:46:31
Tom Evans
clubs want to keep timed cricket with no... You know, they voted on this fairly recently, and they haven't voted to restrict overs. Yeah.
00:46:40
Jamie Bowman
i think there's something I think there's something in matt in what Matty's saying. My worry is that if you start restricting the bowlers, do you have to start restricting the batters?
00:46:51
Matty Jackson
No, there's no form of cricket that they do that. We're not going to start with that one. No.
00:46:56
Tom Evans
No. But I did take your point.
00:46:58
Matty Jackson
No.
00:47:01
Tom Evans
Would it just lead to clubs... you know what it would it just lead to club
00:47:06
Jamie Bowman
but No, why mar post I what I mean is, would your overseas pro who's a fantastic batsman, could he only bat in the top? I don't know, could he only bat at six or seven or so? I don't know. i I'm just being...
00:47:18
Tom Evans
would it lead to clubs making different decisions when it came to their overseas?
00:47:18
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:47:23
Matty Jackson
I think it might.
00:47:24
Jamie Bowman
yeah
00:47:25
Matty Jackson
I think it might. and But if i'm a if I'm a slow left arm overseas professional, I can bowl 24.5 bad overs and keep going because I blow one good ball.
00:47:39
Matty Jackson
Any batter can get a good ball.
00:47:41
Jamie Bowman
Mm-hmm.
00:47:42
Matty Jackson
anybody can get a good ball.
00:47:42
Tom Evans
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:44
Matty Jackson
You know, you talked before about about Ian Cobain and this season being a lot better than what he's had
Strategic Importance of Spinners
00:47:50
Matty Jackson
previous. Has Coey become a better cricketer? i don't know. and But these spinners will bowl 25 overs regardless of what the first 24 go like.
00:48:01
Matty Jackson
That's the
00:48:02
Tom Evans
ah Yeah, thats that's part of the game at every level that bowlers can make five mistakes in and over and then get a wicket and it'd be a successful over. Whereas batters tend to get one or two mistakes at most and then they can't bat anymore. that's that's That's the way it goes. And that's the way that's the reason clubs tend to go for spinners at the moment. If there was restricted, would we see more...
00:48:26
Tom Evans
overseas professional batters or seamers even. That's something that you see much more rarely is proper seam bowling overseas because they tend to only be good for eight overs a game compared to three times as many from your spinner.
00:48:39
Matty Jackson
But already, already we're talking tactics and not just let's go and find the best slow left armor we can to bowl all day for six months. So already we've opened up a new discussion.
00:48:49
Tom Evans
I guess, yeah.
00:48:53
Jamie Bowman
I'm sympathetic I'm sympathetic
00:48:53
Tom Evans
Yeah, and none none of what I'm saying is is a reason to to keep things the way they are. i am but my main My main worry is that it would lead us down a path that would end in overs cricket.
00:49:12
Tom Evans
Because if you didn't know how long... I mean, you know could set the overs at 15, fair enough, you're not going to be out there for 60 overs.
00:49:20
Tom Evans
But we're talking about tactics. Would batting sides bat longer and longer and longer in order to get through the overs of the... Would it lead to more blocking? Would it lead to less exciting cricket?
00:49:31
Matty Jackson
know
00:49:32
Tom Evans
Because they knew that the they wouldn't try and take on the overseas pro left armour because they know he's only got four overs left.
00:49:37
Matty Jackson
they don't anyway they don't anyway look at that they don't anyway these lads are going at 1.5 and over every single week
00:49:42
Tom Evans
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:46
Tom Evans
this This is a different levels thing again, I think, because in the Prem, they do get taken on.
00:49:50
Matty Jackson
yeah yeah that's fair yeah that's fair
00:49:53
Tom Evans
you know even Even a couple of years ago when Summit Ruica was in his pomp at Wallasey, he was getting taken on. He was going for three, four and over some some games. you know He was going with the odd boundary.
00:50:04
Matty Jackson
Yeah, but again, it's it's that tactical battle, isn't it?
00:50:05
Tom Evans
Hmm.
00:50:07
Matty Jackson
ah Would it lead to people batting longer? Maybe. Are people good enough to bat longer? don I don't know. I think we've opened up conversations that are being had already.
00:50:20
Tom Evans
Quite possibly.
00:50:20
Jamie Bowman
And that's what we're for.
00:50:20
Tom Evans
and Yeah, yeah.
00:50:21
Jamie Bowman
That's what we're here for.
00:50:24
Tom Evans
It turns out up ah i'm I'm as surprised as you are, listeners. um Yeah. i ah Jamie, what do you think?
00:50:35
Jamie Bowman
i'm I'm sympathetic. It's a debate we've had many times in the bar after the after the games when Sefton have been on the wrong end of, of of as you say, someone bowling 25 plus overs.
00:50:46
Jamie Bowman
Yeah. ah just and I like Tom, I worry that the end result is the ebo abolishing of timed cricket.
00:50:51
Tom Evans
great
00:50:56
Jamie Bowman
So um'm I'm wary, but I'm sympathetic. if that god um I've got splinters out in my bum, haven't I? I'm sitting on the fence. But i I, yeah, I don't think we can put it in room 101.
00:51:09
Jamie Bowman
Well, we could because it's a personal dislike, isn't it
00:51:13
Tom Evans
Yeah, but it's whether we agree with it. we Matty can say what he likes. so Our position is as we're we're judge jury and executioner here. That's what we've signed up for.
00:51:21
Jamie Bowman
Yeah, true, true.
00:51:22
Tom Evans
It's in your podcaster's contract.
00:51:26
Jamie Bowman
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:26
Tom Evans
The podcaster's code.
00:51:28
Jamie Bowman
When you put it like that, Tom, yeah, yeah. I can't ah can't ah can't do it. Not yet, anyway.
00:51:33
Tom Evans
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:34
Jamie Bowman
I could be persuaded. could be persuaded, maybe in a year's time.
00:51:37
Tom Evans
Yeah, i thought I've been persuaded by the way you're talking now, Matty, more than i have by any of the other discussions I've had.
00:51:46
Matty Jackson
I'll take that as a win for now.
00:51:48
Tom Evans
Well, no, because
00:51:54
Tom Evans
it's absolutely not a win, but you know.
00:51:56
Matty Jackson
It's a moral victory and as the England cricket will tell you, they are the most important.
00:51:57
Tom Evans
be um love
00:52:02
Tom Evans
My ah whole victory for you there. Very good. um Did you say you had another?
00:52:07
Matty Jackson
um No, I think we've covered nine. think we've covered
00:52:10
Tom Evans
Yeah, yeah. I think that's that's quite enough earnestness anyway.
00:52:13
Jamie Bowman
with pay it's people and cricketers basically isn't it yeah
00:52:14
Tom Evans
im
00:52:17
Matty Jackson
It's just people.
00:52:19
Tom Evans
yes
00:52:19
Matty Jackson
Especially when we're good at cricket here and can bowl up there.
00:52:24
Tom Evans
It's enthusiastic young cricketers.
00:52:25
Jamie Bowman
Well played, Matthew, well played.
00:52:27
Matty Jackson
It's people who talk at cricket games and perform well.
00:52:27
Tom Evans
Yeah. people
00:52:30
Matty Jackson
Yeah, that's it.
00:52:33
Tom Evans
good stuff Well, I'm glad I said no in that case.
'Stump the Host' Trivia Segment
00:52:36
Tom Evans
um then Our next regular feature is Stump the Host, where our guest tries to confound Jamie and myself with a piece of cricketing trivia.
00:52:46
Tom Evans
So what have you got for us?
00:52:48
Matty Jackson
Okay, early 2000s, 2001, 2002. India's order was Dravid Tendulkar Ganguly Laxman. Who were the opening batters in Test cricket and which Liverpool comp clubs did they play for?
00:53:04
Tom Evans
Jaffa?
00:53:05
Matty Jackson
Jaffa is correct.
00:53:06
Tom Evans
Was he in Jaffa?
00:53:07
Jamie Bowman
Was he in Jaffa? Played for...
00:53:09
Tom Evans
say Highfield.
00:53:12
Jamie Bowman
He played for... Did he play for Formby?
00:53:16
Matty Jackson
Nope. Nope. Closer with Formby in terms of the geography.
00:53:22
Tom Evans
Wasn't on the Whirl, was he?
00:53:24
Matty Jackson
Nope.
00:53:24
Jamie Bowman
No, no, he was up that way because I was writing for the flipping paper up there.
00:53:26
Matty Jackson
Nope.
00:53:29
Jamie Bowman
It wasn't a high town then, Formby. Formby, oh, God.
00:53:32
Tom Evans
S&B?
00:53:33
Matty Jackson
Nope.
00:53:35
Tom Evans
Hmm.
00:53:37
Jamie Bowman
I'm stumped now.
00:53:39
Tom Evans
No, no, not yet.
00:53:42
Tom Evans
We're going to be going 55 minutes, Jamie.
00:53:47
Jamie Bowman
I remember interviewing him. um' very tri ah Yeah,
00:53:49
Tom Evans
You interviewed him.
00:53:52
Matty Jackson
he scored a thousand runs in half a season, but that's not definite. But I think he did.
00:53:57
Jamie Bowman
yeah. He hated timed cricket, by the way.
00:53:59
Tom Evans
and
00:54:00
Jamie Bowman
I remember him saying he just didn't understand what we were doing. He thought it was terrible. I remember that.
00:54:07
Tom Evans
And yet he was going out there and scoring a thousand runs in half a season.
00:54:10
Jamie Bowman
Yeah.
00:54:11
Matty Jackson
was that good, bowling changes, that's what.
00:54:11
Tom Evans
Coming off.
00:54:16
Tom Evans
i but So a coastal side, we're talking...
00:54:20
Matty Jackson
yeah
00:54:21
Tom Evans
Like, it wouldn't have been... This isn't a guess. It wouldn't have been Northern, because they've never gone down the big-name overseas
00:54:30
Tom Evans
route. um
00:54:34
Tom Evans
Not Hightown, not Formby. There's only the Southport left, isn't there? There's only the Southport sides. No? He's shaking his head, listeners. I haven't
00:54:43
Tom Evans
and really got the hang of the audio medium, but he's shaking his head.
00:54:47
Jamie Bowman
I
00:54:47
Tom Evans
Um...
00:54:49
Jamie Bowman
mean, I'm desperately wanting to Google my interview with him to see if it's still on the Southport visitor website.
00:54:55
Tom Evans
But it's not a Southport side.
00:54:57
Jamie Bowman
It wasn't trin Southport Trinity, though. No.
00:54:59
Matty Jackson
It wasn't Southport Trinity, but you can't.
00:55:01
Tom Evans
Oh, you sort of said you went a bit, mm, listeners. You went a bit kind of, mm, when I said it was not a Southport side. Is it Ainsdale?
00:55:08
Matty Jackson
It is Ainsdale, yes.
00:55:09
Jamie Bowman
and no
00:55:10
Tom Evans
There we are.
00:55:12
Matty Jackson
And the who was the other opening batter and which comp clubs, plural, did he play for?
00:55:12
Tom Evans
Kind of gave me that.
00:55:20
Tom Evans
So coming in ahead of Raoul Dravid and Sashin Sandulka and...
00:55:24
Matty Jackson
He got the new ball for Sachin.
00:55:26
Tom Evans
seeing us a new ball for... That's an absolutely cracking middle order, that, isn't it? See, I'm trying to think back to that.
00:55:38
Tom Evans
they England played them around that time, didn't they?
00:55:42
Matty Jackson
He did play against England.
00:55:44
Tom Evans
Did they play in that Kolkata test where they won after following on?
00:55:49
Tom Evans
When Laxman and Dravid got a million runs, yeah.
00:55:51
Matty Jackson
I know the test you're talking about.
00:55:53
Jamie Bowman
Wasn't Vinod Cambly, was it?
00:55:55
Matty Jackson
No.
00:55:57
Matty Jackson
I'm literally, while you two think I'm Googling the... So he did...
00:56:01
Tom Evans
I want to see them at Headingley. Now, yeah I didn't see India bat at Headingley though in 2002 because Tendulkar got a big 100.
00:56:12
Tom Evans
I think Ganguly got a hundred as well and a England followed on and lost.
00:56:15
Matty Jackson
so he did He did play that Calcutta test.
00:56:18
Jamie Bowman
God. Hmm.
00:56:21
Matty Jackson
And in the second innings, he was hit wicket, bowled Jason Gillespie.
00:56:26
Tom Evans
Did he play in the Headingley test in 2002?
00:56:30
Matty Jackson
England, India.
00:56:32
Matty Jackson
I think so, but I'm going to tell you now. August 22nd, when India, no, he did not.
00:56:40
Tom Evans
But Jaffa did, didn't he?
00:56:43
Matty Jackson
Oh, the opening battles were Sanjay Banga and Verenda Saywag.
00:56:47
Tom Evans
but So that's two it isn't. See how I did that? I cleverly, cleverly, cleverly got Matty to tell us two people who it isn't.
00:56:56
Matty Jackson
I think you know if Saywag had played in the comp.
00:56:56
Tom Evans
So now we've got the...
00:56:59
Matty Jackson
That's all I'll say, so you know it's not him.
00:57:02
Tom Evans
No, say what, no. Yeah, we would have known about that.
00:57:06
Jamie Bowman
Yeah, not Gambier, is it?
00:57:06
Tom Evans
i am...
00:57:10
Jamie Bowman
You mentioned him.
00:57:10
Matty Jackson
No.
00:57:11
Tom Evans
No, we've already talked about him.
00:57:15
Tom Evans
I
00:57:17
Jamie Bowman
No, think we're stumped on that one, mate.
00:57:19
Tom Evans
think I'm at a bit of a loss, yeah. um give Give us a name and we'll we'll get the clubs.
00:57:23
Matty Jackson
Shiv Sundar Das, SS Das.
00:57:26
Tom Evans
Yeah, okay. I do know the name.
00:57:29
Tom Evans
Yeah, I was looking up high scores. to check that Coey's was the best and he was in there.
00:57:34
Jamie Bowman
That's just us.
00:57:38
Matty Jackson
That wouldn't surprise me.
00:57:40
Tom Evans
Is he Highfield?
00:57:42
Matty Jackson
So he actually did three comp clubs.
00:57:45
Jamie Bowman
v
00:57:45
Tom Evans
Three comp clubs. And we're talking in turn of the century comp.
00:57:49
Matty Jackson
and
00:57:49
Tom Evans
Are there any other clubs who aren't in the comp currently?
00:57:52
Matty Jackson
No, they're all they're all in the comp currently. and They're all in the comp currently. I think his last year was 2007. Was the middle one. Yeah.
00:57:59
Jamie Bowman
New in the willows.
00:58:01
Matty Jackson
was the middle one yeahp
00:58:03
Tom Evans
Well done.
00:58:05
Tom Evans
Geographically, where are we talking?
00:58:08
Matty Jackson
um
00:58:10
Matty Jackson
Local to us, there's a clue.
00:58:13
Tom Evans
Local to us?
00:58:15
Jamie Bowman
The bootle?
00:58:16
Tom Evans
I'm in Liverpool.
00:58:17
Matty Jackson
Played at Liverpool for two years, yep.
00:58:18
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:58:18
Jamie Bowman
Wow.
00:58:18
Matty Jackson
I opened it in my first two years in first-team cricket.
00:58:19
Jamie Bowman
wow
00:58:21
Tom Evans
Yeah.
00:58:23
Jamie Bowman
Wow. Wow.
00:58:26
Tom Evans
a
00:58:27
Jamie Bowman
Interesting.
00:58:29
Matty Jackson
And I believe it was Sutton first.
00:58:33
Tom Evans
Sutton, okay.
00:58:33
Jamie Bowman
Really?
00:58:34
Matty Jackson
think I think it was a year at Sutton 2 at Newton 2 at Liverpool.
00:58:38
Jamie Bowman
Well played.
00:58:40
Matty Jackson
And
00:58:40
Tom Evans
That's an anchor.
00:58:40
Jamie Bowman
That is a great stat.
00:58:42
Tom Evans
That is a great stump to host. that That is one of the great s stump to host, definitely.
00:58:47
Matty Jackson
I'm certain that 2007 was his last year because I have a photo of the two of us together in the Raz on my 18th birthday.
00:58:56
Tom Evans
In the last with SFDAS episode cycle.
00:58:59
Matty Jackson
not sure.
00:58:59
Jamie Bowman
What was he like, Matthew?
00:59:01
Matty Jackson
He was the nicest man you could possibly meet. He was an absolute win-at-all-cost competitor on the pitch, white line fever. and But he was the nicest man who still keeps in touch 20 years later with people from the club all the time.
00:59:16
Matty Jackson
and
00:59:16
Jamie Bowman
Brilliant.
00:59:16
Matty Jackson
Won't meet a nicer fella. Brilliant.
00:59:19
Jamie Bowman
Lovely. Well, that was that was a really good Stump the Hosts.
00:59:21
Tom Evans
ah so
00:59:24
Tom Evans
Yeah, excellent. you' done well there. um
00:59:27
Matty Jackson
Nothing in room 101, so I'll take that.
00:59:32
Tom Evans
There you go. You get that.
00:59:33
Matty Jackson
if
00:59:34
Tom Evans
and
00:59:36
Tom Evans
And I think unless there's any other business, I think all remains for me to to wrap up and say thank you very much for coming on, Matty Jackson. It's been been very enjoyable.
00:59:44
Matty Jackson
Really enjoyed that both. Thank you very, very much.
00:59:46
Tom Evans
And thank you again, Jamie, for ah co-hosting.
00:59:46
Jamie Bowman
announced the gras
00:59:49
Jamie Bowman
No problem. Thanks, Matty. And, you know, I believe the coaching is going really well as well. So, you know, good stuff.
00:59:55
Matty Jackson
ah Thanks very much. Yeah, all good. Thank very, very much.
01:00:00
Tom Evans
Excellent. um Thank you very much for listening. Don't forget to like, subscribe and share and spread the word as widely as you possibly can. I've been Tom Evans. This has been the Last Hour Cricket Podcast. Thank you very much.