Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Learning to 'Love' Active ETFs
33 Plays3 years ago
AFI interviews Camilla Love on why you should be adding active ETFs to your investment watch list. The Alpha Females Invest is a financial podcast for those who want to elevate their investing knowledge. We host a series of experts to navigate a technical deep dive into their field of expertise. We aim to promote gender diversity by having at least an equal representation of female guests on our show. Thank you for listening and supporting The Alpha Females Invest. Disclaimer: The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speaker. The content is not financial advice. You should seek the assistance of a professional who can take your personal circumstances into account prior to making any investment decision. The awesome tunes are courtesy of @tmykmusic
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Host Background
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome back to the Alpha Females Invest podcast. Two females working in the finance industry seeking alpha. My name's Emily. And my name is Clooney. And together we bring diversified perspectives from the buy and sell side of the finance world. We seek to elevate female voices in the finance industry to provide our business with diversified perspectives.
Guest Introduction: Camilla Love
00:00:24
Speaker
And today is no exception to that, with our guest Camilla Love, who is Managing Director and Founder of eInvest, and if that's not enough, also founder of F3 Future Females in Finance. Camilla is a senior funds management professional with over 18 years experience in business strategy, sales, client management, operations and marketing. Welcome to the show, Cam. It's great to have you on today.
Excitement and Disclaimer
00:00:50
Speaker
Hi, guys. Thanks for having me. So excited.
00:00:54
Speaker
Love the energy. We'll just kick off with a little disclaimer as we always do. As usual, any information discussed in the podcast is not financial advice. All opinions reflect those of the individuals. You should always read the PDS and talk to a financial advisor who can consider your personal circumstances before you invest.
00:01:13
Speaker
So back to our focus on Cam, which is our episode today.
Camilla's Career Journey to eInvest
00:01:17
Speaker
She's had a very successful career with perennial. And after a little while, actually a long while, she took the leap and founded eInvest. And for those who haven't heard of eInvest before, they're a provider of active ETFs. And the eInvest team are a very passionate group of finance professionals who provide the market with easy, tradable investment solutions that investors can buy and sell as they would any other share on the market.
00:01:41
Speaker
And today we'll dive into the role of ETFs and discuss when active management makes sense in a portfolio.
Podcast Blunders: Clooney's Memory Card Mishap
00:01:47
Speaker
As our listeners know, we like to start each episode asking our guests to reveal an embarrassing career moment. But before we get started, I actually wanted to throw Clooney under the bus here and she's definitely not expecting this.
00:02:00
Speaker
So it hasn't always been smooth sailing over here at Alpha Females Invest. And I think it's time we let our audience in on a little bit of a secret and share our most embarrassing podcast moment. So Clunes, can you please share with everyone our little hiccup?
00:02:18
Speaker
This was definitely not in the preamble and you've really caught me off guard here and I wasn't planning on telling our listeners this so soon. But I think the moment ends referring to is when we first started this podcast, obviously the enthusiastic people that Emily and I are thought we needed all the gear with clearly no idea. So we went out to Officeworks and we bought the state of the art sort of podcast recording machine, new microphones and
00:02:44
Speaker
for our very first episode which if you've listened to the show was with Elise Kennedy at Jarden on technology. We set up a time with her and we were super excited and we get into the recording studio and Em and I start setting all this up. Now look we probably should have decided to set this up prior to our first episode but luckily we were friends with Elise and she sort of knew us on a first name basis so we thought we'd be good to go.
00:03:10
Speaker
After about half an hour of going back and forth, we realized the memory chip card, which I had gone to Officeworks and bought, wasn't reading in our machine. And I just could not work out why, like back and forth, back and forth. We think this is really simple. This should be really simple. And anyway, we ended up having to scratch the episode altogether and just record it on our laptops in the most basic form of podcast recording there is.
00:03:35
Speaker
Anyway, the next day I decided I'd solve this issue and I went into Officeworks and started chatting to the guy there. And I was like, hey, mate, I bought this, you know, chip. It doesn't work. And I'm really annoyed because I was trying to record this podcast episode. And, you know, I really don't think it's good enough. And I started on a bit of a preamble.
00:03:51
Speaker
And he looked at me and he said, yeah, did you did you insert the chip? And I said, yeah, yeah, we did. And he's like, no, no, there's two chips. Like the little chip has to go in the big chip. And I just blankly looked at him and I was like, right. OK, yep. And then I definitely didn't do that. He must have just thought I was the biggest blonde bimbo going around town.
00:04:15
Speaker
And since then, we've now learned how to use a memory card chip. And I would say that is definitely by far our most embarrassing podcast moment.
00:04:23
Speaker
Whoo-hoo! Everyone's got to go through one of those. Oh, it's hilarious. But who knew that the little SD card had to go into the big SD card? I'm sorry, when digital cameras were a thing, there was not a little SD card that slits into the big SD card. That's all I'm going to say. I totally agree. And everyone I've told this story to is actually often on my side in that they say, you know, I would have totally thought the same thing. But then you tell people and they're like, obviously. And you're like, oh, OK, you retraced.
00:04:52
Speaker
But enough about us, Cam. Can we hear about your most embarrassing career moment and hopefully it can top that?
Camilla's Christmas Event Fiasco
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, it probably will, right? So we've all done the emails to clients and stuff like that. But my probably most embarrassing moment, which wasn't embarrassing at the time, but now I reflect on it, is quite embarrassing.
00:05:13
Speaker
is, you know, I put my hand up for everything, as well knows. And I put my hand up to be the chair of the Christmas event committee for Women in Super a couple of years ago. And I wanted to go out on a big bang and all this sort of stuff. And we're organizing prizes for the raffle. And someone had organized a prize for some Zumba dancing, right? And I'm like,
00:05:40
Speaker
Great, someone dancing, you know, it's free, like 10 passes, go for your life, da-da-da-da, and they said, okay, great, we'll give it to you.
00:05:47
Speaker
if you allow our dancers to come and dance at the introduction, at the Christmas event. I'm like, okay, cool. And it was circus themed and all this sort of stuff. So it was all very in there, right? But the ladies turned up as Brazilian dancers with all the feathers and not much on, right? And so the whole industry, there was like 600 people there. Professionals, I'm assuming working professionals.
00:06:14
Speaker
working professionals, but you know what? For me, it was all about, you know, female, you know, they were doing fabulous stuff and I love what they were doing. And I just thought the vibe was great and all that sort of stuff. And then I had to go and front the committee like two days later about why I had organized these pretty terribly clad ladies to come to this Christmas event. And can I say that it wasn't embarrassing at the time.
00:06:41
Speaker
But now I reflect on it, it was highly embarrassing. And thankfully, no one holds me against that. Because these ladies, they were very skilled at what they did. It just probably wasn't quite appropriate. Bit of a swing and a miss, but that's fine. We all do it. There's always something, right? And if I had half their skill, I would probably do that as well.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah, for all those people in superannuation who are running lots of money and who are relatively conservative, it probably wasn't right. I hope you run the Zumba classes, Camilla. One of the more conservative people. Yeah, you'll find me in the park generally doing some sort of MMA or body attack. I'm there, whoo, whoo, whoo, clapping the hands and doing all the kicks. I guarantee you'll find me in the park.
00:07:34
Speaker
That was pretty good. We did have a guest who decided to strip down into his undies and jump into the pool in front of his boss. Back to the business end of things, which is really what we do here. We really want to get behind some of the key thematics in the industry.
Why are ETFs Popular?
00:07:54
Speaker
I guess you are the go-to ETF expert.
00:07:59
Speaker
I was hoping you could explain a little bit around the mechanics of an ETF and why they're surging in popularity at the moment. I know it's definitely a way that I personally invest and that I encourage others to invest. But can you talk us through why the market likes it and how it really works? Yeah, sure. So, ETFs stand for Exchange Traded Funds, and that's what they are in a nutshell. So, a fund that is found on the exchange that you can buy and sell just like a share like you intro'd earlier on.
00:08:29
Speaker
And they are a really great way to invest. And that's for a couple of reasons.
00:08:37
Speaker
Firstly, it is all about accessing great quality investments and really democratizing investing for people like you and me and everybody else out there who is really interested, particularly those who are wanting to start investing. It's a really great way to essentially put your toe in the water for not a lot of money. So a lot of the brokers, maybe you can start at about $500 to get invested.
00:09:07
Speaker
And investing in one ETF can give you up to 2,000, access to 2,000 companies or securities. And that's a really great way to start an understanding investment markets, different asset classes, diversification, all the general sort of the stuff that is
00:09:27
Speaker
everybody takes advantage of when investing. And I think that's a really great way of doing it. So we talked about a little bit about diversification. And I think that's a really good way of starting because a lot of people, when they do start investing in ETFs, they might not have a lot of money, right? So putting $500 to work in one CBA share might get you, I don't know, five or four CBA shares right now, maybe even less than maybe three.
00:09:56
Speaker
where investing in an ETF of $500 could get you multiple units that can get you access to a whole bunch of companies and securities. The other reason why I think ETFs are really good and have increased in popularity of late is because they're really simple and easy.
00:10:16
Speaker
to access particularly. It's a one stop shop. It is, you know, very simple. Like you and I, when we go and shop naturally for clothes or for groceries and stuff like that, you just go online, a couple of clicks and you check out and it gets delivered the next day. ETFs are sort of the same. So gone are the days where you needed, you know, $25,000 and a 28 page application form to complete.
00:10:45
Speaker
you can just go on through your broker, it's connected to your HIN, it's one spot that you can go and access and it's really simple. And I think that's the reason, there are three reasons why ETFs are increasing in popularity. It's one of the fastest areas of growth in the financial services market right now. And I really love being involved in it.
00:11:13
Speaker
Cam, I'd love to delve into that point that you just made there in a little more. You touched on the $25,000 amount that probably in the past, professional management exposure required that type of minimum investment to go into a trust. That is clearly inaccessible for I would think most people definitely, Evan, myself included in that bucket. ETFs, as you mentioned, obviously have a much lower minimum investment amount.
00:11:38
Speaker
How do you think access to financial products sort of promote financial inclusion in the retail market and how are you seeing that play out as we move forward? Oh, it's the critical part of the education process of people. It is a critical part of understanding how investment markets work.
00:11:59
Speaker
You know, and it's also an easy stepping off point, you know, to save to $25,000 in the past to get to that point where you want to make an investment and then the research you need to do and all that sort of stuff. The risk involved is huge. Where, you know, putting $500 to work in an ETF, you know, it's much less risk to start with, particularly. You guys know well with investing. The hardest part is to start, right?
00:12:29
Speaker
And what that's doing is creating a whole new influx of investors to come into the market, as you mentioned. And I think particularly over this last little while, it's gone from, I think 150, 160,000 people investing in ETS to over half a million people investing in ETS alone in a really, really short period of time. And it's really about what I said earlier
00:12:58
Speaker
democratisation of it, making it so easy and simple for people to access. Gone are the days where investing was for the uber-rich, right? Investing is for everyday people these days, and ETS is at the centre of that movement, which I really love.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, I love that point on financial inclusion. And it's something that we have spoken a little bit about on this podcast because it's so important that people can get access to quality but also diversified investment products.
ETFs vs LICs
00:13:32
Speaker
I have had some financial advisors not understand the difference between a lick and an ETF. And the differences are quite significant, particularly that licks in the past have had mixed reviews. So can you talk us through what are the difference between ETFs and licks and why that's relevant? Yeah, the difference for a few reasons. And it's really important, as you say, and to point these out. So the first point that I would like to make is
00:14:01
Speaker
The ETFs are what we call open-ended and LICS, so listed investment companies, are closed-ended. That means that for a LIC, you only have a certain amount of shares on offer, and that is it, right? So you can buy and sell that amount of shares on offer. Where an ETF is open-ended, which means that there are more and more units available to increase or decrease
00:14:27
Speaker
as investors are buying and selling. And so that's really a really critical point on the differentiation. Another point is the fact that ETFs use what we call a market maker and they provide liquidity in the buying and selling of units where market makers are generally missing from buying and selling units in leaks. So what that means is that there is greater liquidity in it
00:14:57
Speaker
In addition to that, ETFs have something associated with it called an INAF, which is an Indicative Net Asset Value, so INAF, right? And what that means is it is an indication and ours are priced every second. So every second that's out there, an INAF is priced for our funds. So every second, investors can see what the value of our fund is moving up and down with.
00:15:26
Speaker
where licks generally is a price to NTA or something that's offered maybe once a month. And what that is, is actually all about, and you add it with the market maker, you put them together, it's all about price discovery. And that's a critical part of why the ETF trades closer to NAV than what an LIC would. So, you mentioned before in that
00:15:55
Speaker
You know, LICs have a bad name in the past. And that's a function of the fact that they can trade at a premium or discount to NAV. And generally in the lion's share, they have traded at a discount. You know, it's a function of its company, its company costs that are coming out of it, all that sort of stuff. ETF less so that way. So there are significant differences between ETFs and LICs.
00:16:24
Speaker
and well worth as an investor to understand those and understand. And I know that ASIC views ETS a little bit more in a brighter light probably than LICs. LICs have had a place in the past and they have a place currently that house assets that are lowly tradable or have low price discovery where ETS really need to have high price discovery assets found in them.
00:16:50
Speaker
It's well worth having a bit of a research yourselves on what the two differences are and how comfortable you are with each format. But my view is that ETFs are the modern day version and a better version of an LIC, but that's different for everybody's views.
00:17:08
Speaker
That's really interesting. And I think, you know, understanding the key differences with similar products is really key to starting your investing journey.
Why Focus on Active ETFs?
00:17:15
Speaker
So turning back to E-Invest specifically, Camilla, can I ask why you decided to launch active ETFs instead of passive? And can you sort of explain to us what that difference means to you? Yeah, okay. So E-Invest, as you mentioned, we're all about active ETFs, right? The ETF market in the past has all been known for passively managed ETFs.
00:17:37
Speaker
If you look particularly at the US ETF market, 99% of it is passively managed ETFs. Let's talk about passive management. What that means is that they're following an index. That index could be anything. It could be the S&P 500, it could be the ASX 300, it could be some ESG index, it could be an index that the ETF issuer has built themselves. You need to understand
00:18:06
Speaker
what is in that index and whether that fits for you, right? Why we built actively managed ETFs and what we do with actively managed ETFs to us, what that means is tapping into investment professionals and providing active management where we believe active management makes sense and
00:18:27
Speaker
We're generally trying to beat a benchmark or achieve an outcome. So whether that outcome be an income-based outcome, that sort of rhymes, so forgive me for that, or whether that is to beat an absolute return on cash benchmark or a relative return benchmark, saying small caps, for example.
00:18:45
Speaker
And there's a place for both, definitely. So our view at eInvest is it's not active or passive, it's active and passive together. And together, they should build you a whole portfolio that should aim to grow your wealth and achieve your goals, right? Whatever those goals could be. At eInvest, we believe active management makes sense in certain asset classes, small caps being one of them, fixed interest being one of them,
00:19:15
Speaker
you know, income generation definitely being one of them. And what we do is we partner with high quality, institutional quality asset managers, fund managers, and bring their skills into the ETF market. So that's one reason why we focused on active ETFs. The other space that when I was building eInvest, my view was the fact that there was a gaping hole for active management
00:19:44
Speaker
in the ETF market, right? And it wasn't until really six or seven years ago that we were able to fill that hole, right? There's new structures and the regulators allowed more flexibility in the way the ETFs were traded and all that sort of stuff. And so in passively managed funds, it's really hard to differentiate yourself from any other manager, right?
00:20:11
Speaker
So if you are a passively managed fund and you're covering the S&P 500 and another brand name covers the S&P 500, essentially if they're the same thing, it has the same stocks in it with the same weights, generally the same fees. So it's really hard to differentiate. With active management, the world is your oyster about differentiation. And so my view was that gaping hole needs to be filled by someone.
00:20:40
Speaker
and that someone was going to be e-invest. And so that's how e-invest started. And that's what active management means to us. That makes complete sense. And we've had a couple of guests talk about passive versus active. And so it's great to hear an active perspective. But I guess one of the biggest pushbacks that we have had on active is that the fees are typically higher than those in passive funds. And from what you've explained, it probably makes sense given that there's likely more work involved in active.
00:21:08
Speaker
What do you say to investors who are concerned about the fee hurdle? Because I guess I know a lot of my non-financially literate friends who are very smart people, but just not financial literate and who read, for example, the Barefoot Investor, which tells them go for the funds with the lowest fees. Can you kind of give a bit of context to why there's that difference and maybe why it doesn't necessarily always mean the best outcome with the lowest fees?
00:21:37
Speaker
Sure. And yes, active managers do generally have higher fees. So we'll put that up front, and I'm not hiding from that at all. But sometimes in life, you get what you pay for. If you're going to pay for peanuts, you get peanuts. My view is I would never scrimp
00:21:56
Speaker
on champagne and chocolates. I will happily pay $25 for those, but I will maybe scrimp on like cooking plain flour and all that sort of stuff and maybe cling wrap, right? So my view on that sort of stuff is
00:22:15
Speaker
Active management makes sense in some certain asset classes and does not make sense in others, right? So passively managed where it makes sense there and actively managed and pay up for areas where you think you can add value and actually pay a little bit more because what I talk to investors about a lot is
00:22:36
Speaker
net of fee returns, right? So it's great that you're going to pay 30 basis points or less for a passive fund, but by definition, those fees will be taken out of a benchmark return, so you're going to get less of the benchmark return anyway. Perfectly fine, right? And sure, with active management,
00:22:55
Speaker
the people who are running the money are actually taking active bets on where the outperformance is going to come from and sometimes they win and sometimes they lose, right? But when you have a fund that is 7.2% above benchmark and has returned 36.7% net of fees for the year, it's really meaningful, that number.
00:23:19
Speaker
Net of fees, right? So you need to take that into account when you're putting your whole portfolio together. So you're scripting and saving where it makes sense and paying up where it makes sense. And I definitely wouldn't script a save on cheap champagne because it only gives you only like tomorrow morning.
00:23:41
Speaker
Camilla, I couldn't agree more with you on both points, firstly, the champagne, and secondly, the active management. But I think that's interesting, active managing where you believe you can add value. And I think that slides nicely into my next question, which is, what is your favorite E-Invest product? What are the types of products available in the market today? And from a value perspective, where do you see the biggest opportunity?
00:24:07
Speaker
Yeah, clearly this is like asking me if I have a favourite child, right? Very difficult, very difficult. But of course you do have favourites. You just don't really want to say that. Sorry, I know I'm the favourite child, Camilla.
00:24:23
Speaker
My mom always told me I was the best child of her three. Never told me I was a favorite. I don't necessarily think I was. But anyway, what I would say is I have a couple. So I'm PQ. So the Better Future Fund that Em knows pretty well is a cracking fund. Like it really is. And I love this fund for multiple different reasons. You know, it has a great team behind it. It has fabulous performance. And I knew when I built
00:24:53
Speaker
and I wrote the business plan five years ago that this product was going to be the first, if not the second, and it was the second product off the rank, right? And at the time, we actually didn't have a product that looked like this at all, right? And I remember sitting back there writing my business plan going, I need this fund, I want to have a sustainable fund, and I want it to be in smaller kneecaps, and sitting there
00:25:20
Speaker
building the investment process and looking at the marketing of it and finding the gap in the market for it, there was a gaping hole for this type of fund. And looking back now on the initial beginnings of that,
00:25:35
Speaker
and knowing, you know, where it has come from to where it is now and where it's going to go to is just so, it feels like, I love that, right? So it's so rewarding, it's so rewarding. And I love the fact that not only do I get that warmth every day, but as an investor myself in the fund, the fund, you are backing companies that are doing better for society, that are creating better outcomes, you know, in,
00:26:05
Speaker
EduTech and MedTech and renewable energy and all these other great, great companies.
Camilla's Favorite eInvest Products
00:26:11
Speaker
For me, it's like a meeting of the minds, right? I love that E-Invest, our clients have embraced this fund wholeheartedly and I can't wait to see where it's going to go. So, favourite child number one. Favourite child number two is E-Core, which is our core income fund.
00:26:32
Speaker
fixed income in a really equities-focused market. So ETFs are very much equities-focused, right? ETFs with fixed income as their underlying assets have only relatively been new, maybe the last three or four years in the markets. And it's a consistent performer. The fixed income asset class, I think, is underrated and overlooked by everyday investors because everyone's chasing returns and not necessarily looking out about the holistic
00:27:01
Speaker
portfolio, the role of fixed income for insurance and downside protection. And you know, it's again, a cracking little fund. And yeah, I can't wait to see whether that kind of just goes too. So you're gonna have to have me back on in a couple of years time. So I can say, hey, look where they've come from and look where they are now. We'll make you choose next time. Oh no, no countries.
00:27:28
Speaker
So you named two funds, so INPQ and eCore. You talked about the benefits of active management, where it makes sense. So let's have the conversation about performance. What has the performance of the products been since launch? Are investors getting that active management value that you speak to? Yeah, of course. So let's start from the top. So the first fund that was listed for eInvest is IGA, so the Income Generator Fund.
00:27:54
Speaker
It's an equity income fund and so its target is not about capital return, it's actually about income return. And its target is a 7% per annum gross yield and it has achieved that. That's pretty high given that if I put my money in a bank right now, I'm getting probably negative percent because I'm paying fees.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, indeed. And it is one of the highest yielding ETFs in the market out there. So it's been doing really well. It's been giving investors exactly, exactly what they're invested. My view is you have to do what you say on the box. And Iger is definitely doing what it says on the box. So it's worth it, definitely. Second fund that was listed was INPQ. I've already mentioned performance for them. It is a cracking fund. It has got
00:28:44
Speaker
really big returns and it's well worth people actually going to have a look at those returns specifically. So it's doing really, really well. And I think it's also, it's really tapping into a theme in the market for sustainability, investing and companies that are really focused on that. So I think that's really good. And the fixed income products, initially they had a really tough time. So within four months of starting,
00:29:11
Speaker
The COVID crash occurred, which crashes can happen all the time, but you don't want them to happen in the first little while of a fund. Ben is saying that both of them, e-core and e-max, have done really well. Again, consistent returners, they do what they say on the box. E-core is aiming to achieve a 2% to 3% return above cash, and it's meeting that target
00:29:34
Speaker
And EMACs is more like a 3% to 4% return. It's a little bit underneath that target because of that COVID piece. But again, if you invested today, I'm sure that you'll get what it says you will over time. So we've been well-supported in all our funds through our investors. We've got a couple of thousand these days, which I'm pretty excited about. And we're getting over 100 a week, which is really exciting.
00:30:00
Speaker
There's some pretty impressive numbers that you just rattled off there, Camilla. And I think, you know, even though we're recording this remotely, given the current lockdown situation in New South Wales, you know, your passion is clearly contagious. So I'd love to know how did E-Invest come about and what is its core mission? E-Invest came about, my background is actually in institutional sales. So I would go and sell to the large superannuation funds.
00:30:26
Speaker
And I spent most of my time doing that for probably about nine years before starting an event. It started because my boss popped his head over the petition one day and said, Camilla, what do you think of the ETF market? And I said, had you read my MBA thesis that I delivered on your desk three years ago, you'd know. And so he asked me to dust it off and write a business plan.
00:30:52
Speaker
And then a week later, he said, what do you want to do about this, Camilla? And I said, I want to run the business. So that's what E-Invest is today. And that's how it all came about. I can't wait till I have my light bulb moment and also create a super stellar financial elevating business as well. I'll keep you posted. Are you not on AFI? And that was your view. We're like, we've done this. We already have this.
00:31:18
Speaker
I'm going to combine a couple of questions in one, but I guess the key point of the questions is to talk a little bit about the competitive position of E-Invest and a bit more background into its strategy and its business model. Firstly, how long have you been around for? You said you created a business plan about five years ago, but there's obviously a longer history with perennial there.
00:31:39
Speaker
What is the total FUM? So funds under management for your products at the moment and what are your medium and long-term aspirations? I'm sure they're aspirational. And then can you also tell us who would be your biggest competitors and who else is in the space and maybe your point of difference? Yeah, sure. So I've been with Perennial for nearly 20 years.
00:32:04
Speaker
So I started as a grad and worked my way up from there. So it's generally unheard of these days, but I guess the business has been able to give me enough rope for me to swim in. And I've lived up to everyone's expectations so far. And that's how I sort of got the opportunity to start E-Invest. The first fund actually was listed on the 7th of May, 2018, and that was IGA.
00:32:32
Speaker
we've had a number of funds since that point in time. So it probably took about 18 months before that to put the product and the operational bits and pieces together. So that's sort of how long it's been around for. We talked about the differentiation between why E-Invest is different in the ETF market than our competitors.
00:32:57
Speaker
But our biggest competitors are, of course, the passive guys, because generally they have the lion's share of inflows that are coming in. And they're the likes of Vanguard, iShares, B2Shares, VanEck. And there are a number of, you know, single smaller competitors, single fund sort of competitors that are coming into the market now, because it is one of the growth areas in financial services.
00:33:21
Speaker
But, you know, my view is, as I mentioned before, if we can carve out the active only component within the market. And so everyone knows that we stand for active management where active management makes sense. They can come here to buy their product that will hopefully outperform over time. We're just shy of 80 mil across our funds. Our goal is to be at 100 mil by December and hopefully we'll make it before then.
00:33:50
Speaker
and close to 200 mil by June of next year. And ideally, and you'll have to have me on in five years' time, I want to be at half a bill by June 2023.
How to Invest in eInvest Products
00:34:02
Speaker
So, we'll see how that goes. Come on, AFI listeners. Let's get her there. Yes! Go! Go team! If you're at half a billion, I reckon M1 can be at half a billion listeners.
00:34:15
Speaker
Oh, okay. Let's do this. Maybe we should do a percentage increase. Totally. We should put a prize on the end of this. Champagne, high quality. I'm there. I'm there. Well, you've got me on board Camilla and clearly this sounds like a fantastic business. So I'm sure our listeners and myself would love to know how can we get access to eInvest.
00:34:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So the easiest way is to either head to your online broker and search for one of the ticket codes, I think you either e-core or e-max and go from there. You can head to the e-invest website, e-invest.com.au, and there's a how to invest page on our website that will take you through everything if you're unsure. So well worth doing that.
00:35:07
Speaker
You know, no financial advice given, as you said earlier on, and you need to read the PDS before you invest. It's really critical that you will understand the risks involved with each investment that you're going to make. And that goes with every investment, just not ETFs or E-Invest ETFs. So really think about that.
00:35:26
Speaker
And we're big supporters of the newer brokers that are popping up around these days. So people like Perla and Superhero and the like, you know, it's really great to see new entrants come into the market to help and target new investors and make their journey into investing a little easier and a little simpler. And so if you're interested in, and you don't have a broker that you're associated with,
00:35:52
Speaker
already, it's well worth checking them out, but you have to go through a broker or financial advisor to access our ETFs and you just trade them on the exchange just like you do a share.
00:36:05
Speaker
Thanks for that, Cam. I guess I wanted to go to a little bit more about E-Invest and its brand strategies. When I look at E-Invest, I think that it's really modernizing how investors think about investment. You're active on social media, you do lots of media presentations, you're writing content, it's on the website, you're connecting with the millennial.
00:36:26
Speaker
So why did you position the brand to be more modern than the traditional investment managers that we know? And how important is social media for financial and investment ideas and advice going forward, given that we're seeing the increasing popularity of influencers? I mean, Clinton and I are doing a podcast. There's lots of financial podcasts out there. Can you talk about the role of, I guess, the free advice model as well? Because that is quite topical.
00:36:54
Speaker
Yeah, so it's social media, talking to people in their own language is really key to E-Invest's communication strategy. And we really want it to be simple, approachable and easy to understand. And I think that that is just such a fresh and modern way to look at fund management and investing brands.
00:37:18
Speaker
For us, no question is a dumb question. A lot of our investors just ring us up to ask questions, whether that be, what are the fees, or tell me a little bit about it, or even just to chat to poke the fact that you're a real person, that sort of stuff. We love that. We want to educate as many people as possible about investing. We like to have a good time. We don't take ourselves obviously seriously.
00:37:44
Speaker
you know, investing can be so serious sometimes, like too serious. And I think, you know, we like to be nimble and small and we have a high performing team and that's what I want the EMS brand to be portrayed about. You know, gone are the days, you know, I think there's so many fund managers and forgive me, I'm going to swear, right? That look like they have a carrot stuck up their ass, right? Talking it to mum and dad, you know, everyday investors.
00:38:13
Speaker
No one wants that anymore. No one wants for you to stand on a pedestal from up high and preach to everybody else, right? We don't want that. We want to have a conversation with you, not at you, and a lot of financial brands
00:38:30
Speaker
do that. And I think that's where the influencers are coming in because they, again, this is the theme of democratizing financial products, but this is democratizing financial advice, right? And they are very quick to say they don't give advice, right? And, you know, ASIC is really looking at this segment really hard about making sure that that line is not grey, it's definitely black and white. But what these influencers are particularly doing
00:39:00
Speaker
is being very open about what their net worth is and their philosophy of investing and things like that, right? And I really love that because my parents never talked to me about investing at all, right? You can now pick up your phone and go through Instagram and find out some influencer who's 24 has $285,000 in net worth, great.
00:39:29
Speaker
I love that, right? And I think that there is that. I mean, we want to be fresh. And I guess the other thing for E-Invest, for your listeners to understand is that behind us, we have a fund management firm who backs us that we partner with.
00:39:47
Speaker
And they have 20-year pedigree, they have $7.5 billion in assets under management. We tap into all their legal risk and compliance. And it's that basis that we can have the freedom and the flexibility to be able to be a challenger brand in the financial services space. And I really love that. Social media is just a way to communicate with our investors.
00:40:17
Speaker
You guys could already tell. I love to talk. Give me a podium. And I'm happy to either dance or I'll talk into a microphone. Either way, podium is good for me. And social media is just one of those. And whether that's an investor who decides to pick up the phone, dial the number and talk to me, or whether they want to DM us across Instagram or Facebook.
00:40:40
Speaker
perfectly fine. They can visit the chatbot. They talk to real people on the chatbot. We just want to be simple, easy, approachable. And I have a principle, no dickheads, right? That's essentially what ENVEST is all about.
00:40:55
Speaker
I think that point about having conversations with you, not at you, is so pertinent in the world we live in. I think that's one of the key reasons behind doing this podcast. We really want to speak with different people about different products that are in the market.
00:41:12
Speaker
and not feel like we're standing on a pedestal and necessarily dictating what people should do with their money. I think there's so many different ways you can invest, and I just think it really opens up the realm to all opportunities on the table. I really appreciate what you're doing, Camilla, and I do think it really aligns well with our core values as well.
00:41:32
Speaker
So before we finish off, I do have a question in terms of what can we expect to come from eInvest in the future? What are the opportunities or sectors of the market that you think retail investors currently have limited access to? And where do you see the big opportunities in the next two to five years?
00:41:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great question. And, you know, it is very much a watch this space. So we have in a couple of months, we're launching a global hybrid fund. Most Australian investors know what hybrids are. Most of them have an allocation to them, mainly in the big four banks. But global hybrids, much deeper universe, good relative returns and will diversify your portfolio away from the big four, which I think is really critical for
00:42:22
Speaker
Australian investors to get amongst. So we're definitely doing that. We're looking at a couple of global investment opportunities with some really good and high quality partners. So watch this space.
00:42:35
Speaker
not giving too much away. Investors will have to follow the journey. Exactly. You've got to join our newsletter to work out the new ones. I guess our final professional question, we're very focused on gender diversity. It's in our name.
Encouraging Young Women in Finance
00:42:50
Speaker
We strive to have equal representation of female guests because we think there's not necessarily enough platforms for females to demonstrate their financial leadership.
00:42:59
Speaker
So I guess it's also a passion of yours. Well, not I guess. I know it's also a passion of yours. And you've started F3 Future Females in Finance. And you also have your own podcast, which is called Shares Not Shoes. So can you give us a bit of background to your work in the space and why it's important to you? Yeah, sure. I love this space. I love education. I love investing and driving the pipeline of highly talented females into our industry to make it
00:43:29
Speaker
more robust and better for the future, I think is really, really critical. And it sort of came about a couple of years ago when I was...
00:43:39
Speaker
in head of institutional and I was getting peppered with questions about where the females were in my investment team and thankfully it's changed a little now. But back in the day, the answer was big fat donut and it was very disappointing. So I can't change anything in lots of other people's organizations, but what I can do is educate the next generation. So that's what F3 stands for. It's educating girls from years 10
00:44:08
Speaker
all the way through to the end of their journey at university. And we do that through panel sessions and other education pieces, showcasing great role models and providing practical work experience. And it's really about nudging the talent through the industry, giving them the network that they need, giving them experience and the skills. I mean, these days, you know, it is about
00:44:35
Speaker
who you know and how you're going to get in and all that sort of stuff. It's not necessarily about what you know and I'm trying to get as many girls into the industry as possible and giving them the skills and the platform to do that and I'll read you something that I got emailed this week and so I send a whole bunch of girls through work experience and online work experience program with F3's corporate partners and it just fills my cup. There is not
00:45:03
Speaker
a day or a week that goes past that I don't get an email from one of these girls that either says, you know, thanks, it was a fabulous opportunity or whatever. But I'll read you this one that I got this week, because it was really amazing. It says, Dikemilla, I cannot express enough how grateful I am for being able to participate in the F3 program. It was well structured and gave me great insight into the finance industry. As a woman who hopes to go into finance, I was definitely intimidated by the industry. But this program
00:45:33
Speaker
not only left me feeling supported and empowered. And I can't thank you enough for this. And that is what it all is about in one foul swoop. And oh my God, it makes me tear up every time I think about it. So, you know, it's so amazing. And, you know, our industry has nothing to fear. If you're going to get as many talented females in as possible as the ones that I have seen, we are going to be in much stronger position in the future. So yeah.
00:46:02
Speaker
Cam, I think that's really funny, that story you just shared about all the responses you get. It was actually really interesting. The other day, M&I received a DM, as you said, someone slid into our DMs on the Alpha females and they just sent us a really lovely message just saying, you know, they stumbled across our podcast and they really love it. You know, they've just finished their degree and they're not quite sure what they want to do next.
00:46:26
Speaker
They love that we're bringing this next layer of discussion. I think Em and I had the same response. We both thought, oh wow, that's really amazing that we're definitely reaching people. I think we both got a bit excited about that too. I definitely think we're all on the same page here.
00:46:43
Speaker
Last but definitely not least question, and we always love to end our episodes with this. Clearly you've had a extremely incredible career that I believe is still definitely going ahead, steaming ahead at a great pace. But if we stop and stand for a second, can you tell us what's your top career tip?
00:47:04
Speaker
I've got so many, but I'll limit them. Okay. Cause I could go on, this could be a whole podcast on this, right? And that's what I do with shares, not shoes, but I've got three. So if you give me, let me wax lyrical a little bit. The first one and the biggest one is choose your partner wisely, right?
00:47:23
Speaker
And my view on that is if you want a long-term, high-profile career, you need someone that supports you and the household as a team member, not just as a significant other, right? And it means 50-50 on everything, 50-50 on child rearing, 50-50 on folding the washing and doing the shopping, and of course making financial decisions.
00:47:48
Speaker
If you don't sit the ground wolves early on that, you will personally get a disappointing outcome of where you think you are. So really have those discussions early.
00:47:59
Speaker
and choose your partner wisely, which is really deep, right? Really deep. Particularly when you're talking to people who are quite young and they're like, oh, my boyfriend does this and I've only been dating for this long. I'm like, well, have those discussions. My second one is say yes to everything and then work it out later, right? So take every opportunity by the horns and totally run with it. You can always say no at a later date, but if you say no before even trying, that's just playing down.
00:48:29
Speaker
Right? You need to work that out. You need to go through those learning experiences and really seek out those opportunities. Say yes is my second one. And my third one is network, network, network.
00:48:43
Speaker
It is totally critical. It's who you know, it's not what you know, end of story. You know, for those people who really hate networking, find a way. Find a way. Either partner with someone who can help you or network in somewhere that you feel comfortable in, but you've got to find a way.
00:49:04
Speaker
I've done a whole piece on my LinkedIn page. You can go and have a bit of a look, see that. And just starting with smile when you network is really important and it cuts through the pretentiousness of people and the difficulty that comes with networking. So then my top three could go on forever, but I'll stop there.
00:49:22
Speaker
I think you've hit the nail on the head with networking. I think we're two professionals who love a network. My friends tease me. Hashtag networking. So I think that's great. Great advice. I'm the type of person who walks into a room and goes, yes, I know nobody here. Let's go. People think I'm absolutely crazy, but I love it. I love people's stories.
00:49:48
Speaker
I love understanding their backgrounds. I love where, you know, it interlinks with my interests and all that sort of stuff. I love that, right? I will be the person asking you 101 questions and you do all the talking. I love it. Love it.
00:50:04
Speaker
Maybe and once we're at a lockdown, we need a, not a virtual, but a real life event and we'll invite Camilla and hopefully she knows no one and we can get everyone networking in the same room. Clooney, I have to tell you that that's very unlikely for Camilla.
00:50:21
Speaker
That's quite true. That's quite true. It's really weird. I went on a local lockdown walk the other day thinking I'll run into no one. I think I ran into eight people along this in the middle of nowhere. It was hilarious. People from school through the people in the industry, it was hilarious. It was hilarious.
00:50:40
Speaker
Thanks so much Cam for coming on. We told you that it was an episode we've been looking forward to. We think your passion is so admiring and we love your enthusiasm. And we think that this will be an episode that will really resonate with our listeners. So thanks for coming on. It was great to have you let the race to half a billion begins.
00:50:59
Speaker
Indeed. And we'll hold you to the champagne. So thanks again. I'm happy to lose that bet to you guys, right? Only to you guys. Don't worry. I took notes, Cam. I'm all over it. Okay, cool. Thanks for having me. It was so much fun. I hope you'll have me again sometime once you run out of your people that you're going to fight along. Thanks, Cam. Thanks again. See you guys.