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SEND and Safeguarding: Why your support matters on governing boards
209 Plays1 month ago
Do you have expertise in safeguarding or Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND)? Ever considered using it to support a school in your local area?
In this episode, we speak with Matt, a deputy head who volunteers as a link governor for safeguarding, and Louise - a link governor in safeguarding, SEND and wellbeing. They share their experiences of supporting children with SEND, the skills and perspectives they've developed as school governors, and the challenges they’ve faced.
Whether you're considering becoming a school governor or already involved, their stories offer valuable insights on why these roles are so vital in supporting the next generation.
Ready to find out more about the role of a school governor? Visit our website: https://bit.ly/GfSAboutTheRole.
Music by: Bensound.com/free-music-for-videos License code: 8P2EVFF3DFNJZLFU
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Transcript
Introduction to Governance for Schools Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of the Governance for Schools podcast, the best place to learn about a wide range of issues affecting today's governance landscape. My name is Joyce, partnerships manager within the team, and I'm delighted to be one of your hosts today. I'm also joined by my colleague, Alice.
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello, I'm Alice. I'm also a Partnership Manager at Governors for Schools and I'm really excited to be part of this episode. I think one that kind of resonates quite strongly with me. i'm So if you don't know who Governors for Schools are, we are a national educational charity that finds places and supports skilled volunteers, ah school governors and academy trustees on school and academy
Guest Speakers: Matt and Louise on SEND Governance
00:00:42
Speaker
boards.
00:00:42
Speaker
This podcast is geared towards an introduction to school governance for SCND, which stands for Special Educational Needs and Disability, and safeguarding professionals as we know that there is a real need for them across school boards and a value they can bring to the table. Allison Knights are not experts in these areas, so we've invited two guest speakers, Matt and Louise, who are school governors themselves to share their experiences and insights.
00:01:11
Speaker
they will definitely do a much better job than me of introducing themselves. So I'll hand over to them. Okay. yeah Yeah. My name's Matt Trevor. I'm currently a deputy head teacher at a primary school in the city of Birmingham. And then as well as that, I'm a safeguarding governor for a secondary school within the city of Birmingham as well. So yeah, pleased to meet you all. I'm looking forward to the and chat we're going to have today. My name's Louise. I am also a safeguarding governor. I'm also an SCND governor, a primary school up in Merseyside. And I'm also delighted to be here today, looking forward to this conversation.
00:01:41
Speaker
Thank you both for joining us today. We are so looking forward to understanding more about how SCND and safeguarding skills are so vital to the governing boards. And as host today, we'll be letting you know more about how the work that we do at governance for schools and how you can get involved in volunteering as a school governor.
The Rising Need for SEND Governance Support
00:01:59
Speaker
Okay so obviously according to what we know and government data there are over 1.6 million young people and pupils in England who currently have SEND or special educational needs and disabilities and that sort of number of young people and pupils needing support we know is ever increasing. Matt and Louise you both come from a professionally different
00:02:24
Speaker
backgrounds, different areas. I think it'd be really interesting to get an understanding of what the lay of the land is with regards to SEND and safeguarding in your schools right now and kind of yeah just open that up but also it'd be interesting to see the differences of what you you bring and you take from your own professional backgrounds. Obviously Matt is an educationalist, so his work is deep rooted within education and always has been. Louise works for Deaf Press, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, so it has a completely different sort of take on things and perspectives, but obviously you're both serving within kind of like those similar areas within a school governing board. So Louise, do you want to
Challenges in School Governance for SEND
00:03:08
Speaker
go first?
00:03:08
Speaker
Okay, so the school where I am governor is a single-form entry primary school in a fairly rural part of a suburban area in Hensleyside. So as a result of that, I think for the, we've got really quite high numbers of essay of send and children in our school, given given kind of the the catchment and the the, you know, the location of it of the school. And that kind of brings about a lot of challenges at the moment, because the school doesn't get a huge amount of pupil premium funding or funding for for that but actually you know we've got quite high you know quite a high number of pupils that do have additional needs and are needing that support which obviously comes at a cost. We've got a fantastic Senco in post who's doing wonderful things and with supportive lots of staff throughout the school but it is a real challenge and increasingly I think each year
00:04:00
Speaker
the challenges seem to be getting greater. I think obviously with getting children diagnosed there's obviously a huge reliance on external, you know, agencies who are also stretched and also under, you know, not wanting to get anything political, and but you know the the stretch services aren't they? So I think it is a very challenging role. The school that I'm in, the Senko is also a full-time class teacher and also sat sits on the SLT. There's also a course coordinator as well so you know it's it's the typical thing that comes with single-form entry schools that she's got an awful lot on her plate but is doing the very best she can for the children who are like I say each year you know increasing amounts of EHCPs coming through the school and children who are
00:04:43
Speaker
waiting for, you know, that the in our area, we're waiting about two years for, from kind of referral to diagnosis for, you know, any matter, any number of conditions that might need that EHC pay. So that's a bit of ah a picture of our current status for SEND. Safeguarding isn't as, I mean, obviously it's a huge priority in the school and it is really, a you know, a big focus of and everything that the school does about keeping children safe, but we don't have a huge amount of safeguarding issues within our school. so That's really nice to give us a really good understanding kind of what perspective you're coming at this from. Matt, are you able to kind of yeah give us a similar sort of understanding of... Yeah, no, it's really interesting. It's really interesting actually sergeon put there to um to listen to Louise, because the the school that i um that I work at, that I'm in the SLT,
00:05:31
Speaker
of is very similar in many ways by the sound of it in terms of a smaller one-form entry school and I think when it comes to send those smaller one-form entry environments that are very popular for certain families with children who might have specific needs that they want to make sure are met and over the last few years we've we've also seen a big upward trend in the number of children who who who are eligible and who who who meet that criteria and just to reiterate the time scales involved you know are a long time you are talking a couple of years and it It takes a long time for those diagnosis them to kind of get through. I think another thing to to kind of think about as well is when you think of SEND, it's not all always sort of the cognitive aspect, you know, you've got the emotional aspects as well. And that's been a huge growth area, I think, in our school. So, you you know, you could look at performance data for attainment and progress.
00:06:19
Speaker
and a large chunk of this end population are performing very well. It's not cognitive, it's not linked with you know what they do and don't know in its purest form. It's additional, sometimes more complex needs that need to be met by the school. and it's yeah with the With the funding issues, and next you know we lean so heavily, schools on external agencies, it's it's difficult, it is really difficult to help those families.
Role Expansion in Governance
00:06:42
Speaker
In terms of my governance, firm from a governance perspective, and the school that I've been a school governor at for almost, I think it's almost four years now, three and a half years, something like that, at one point I was safeguarding and sending Link Governor for the school. It was only more recently that it was decided that both roles are actually so big, they should be done by two separate people.
00:07:00
Speaker
my directs and experience is relatively limited, I suppose. you know We work, as Louise said, very closely obviously with the Senko at the school and the role of a Senko is so pivotal and and it's so difficult because you have to wear so many hats. You're not you know just a Senko in school. you know Louise mentioned you know a full-time teaching position on top of that. You you wonder how they can get everything done because there is so much to be done. So yeah, I know from from my limited exposure to at secondary level at talking to the Senco there, you know, they're very much reiterating what what we're talking about now really, which is the fact that they're trying to do the very best that they can for, you know, the pupils under their care, but in incredibly challenging circumstances. Yeah, that sounds really tough and really challenging. And
00:07:44
Speaker
Whether it is from a Sanco's perspective or from a school governor perspective, there's so much work, so much things that you guys need to discuss and go through. And I think it's really interesting that Matt and Luis, you both have taken on safeguarding and sent link governor roles at the same time at some point in your school governor's journey. um Can you explain a little bit more to our audience who might not understand what a link governor is and taking on both roles. How have you found these two roles? How did you juggle two huge responsibilities at the same time? Okay so a link governor is so obviously as ah as a governing body you sit as a board and you attend meetings throughout the course of the year and you get presented with lots of information. A link governor then takes that a step further and actually goes into the school and will arrange and have a specific contact within the school for the responsibility that you're
00:08:37
Speaker
looking at or linking in with and that actually i is one of my favorite parts of governance to be fair is actually getting into the school and having a seeing what we hear about in action and getting the opportunity to have a look around and ask questions so the link of government role for me for the SEND and for safeguarding is with two separate people in the school I go in once a term at a time that's convenient to them I kind of look I prompted but let them drive it because they're obviously incredibly busy people working in a challenging environment. In terms of how I manage it, really, my job's easy, isn't it? I'm going in you know one once every time I'm going in. we've I created for our school report a visit report pro forma. So in terms of not just going in and kind of sitting passively and just
00:09:25
Speaker
getting the information. I wanted it to be of benefit and something we could actively feed back to the rest of governors. So it's just so that everybody who goes in now just completes this and it's it's got some very fairly loose prompts on it about what was the purpose of the visit, what did you learn, is there anything that the governing board needs to consider for future decisions and how have you seen like the school's vision, values and ethos in action during your visit.
00:09:48
Speaker
And it's, you know, hopefully to provide something really positive back to the the governing body, but also flag areas for concern. So that's, so I obviously go in, I'll normally go in for anywhere between an hour and two hours and then complete the report. I'll always send the report to the person I've met first in case of, because obviously not working in the sector. I don't want to misconstrue anything they say. I don't want to put anything that's maybe been said to me in confidence down that was just said conversationally.
00:10:13
Speaker
so they get to proofread it and then once once they're happy it goes to the head and to and the rest of the governors as well so that hopefully through each linked governor the whole board gets a taste of what's going on within sort of daily life in the school far more than sitting there and you know ratifying policies and you know listening to their head teacher give their report as well. yeah Yeah I'd like to just extend on really what what Louise said because yeah it's very similar.
Primary vs. Secondary School Governance
00:10:37
Speaker
It's interesting I suppose to look at it from a secondary perspective because like I say I've had 12 years experience at governance at primary level and then it was like I say almost three and a half four years ago that I then decided to kind of look at governance um at at secondary school level.
00:10:50
Speaker
that a lot of things obviously are very similar, very similar indeed, to be perfectly honest. So like like Louis said, it's the it's the terminally visits, go and speak to the lead DSL, the designated safeguarding lead. I think at the moment as well, you know there's a big push just to make sure they're okay because they're under incredible stress and some of the you know some of the issues that have to be looked at and the support that has to be given to families can take its emotional toll on professionals, even those that have been in there for a long, long time and would deemed to be you know would be deemed to be very resilient people. but that that the well-being of the pupils as well as staff is incredibly important at the moment. We've had audits and things like that that the school secondary school that I'm involved with that have had so it's it's quite good to be involved in those audits from a safeguarding perspective because they do hold the school to account and they do want to speak to school governors as well as those employed by the school and especially the school still in the offstead window at the moment so obviously with that looming it does fill you with a little bit of confidence that
00:11:46
Speaker
the school's been kind of doing its due diligence annually to make sure that they're, you know, doing things that they should with regard to safeguarding. Those monthly visits also involve looking at the single central record. So that's obviously that the school has a single central record with details on and part of the safeguarding link of Nuzroa is to obviously look at those, look at the single central record, cross-reference that with personnel files just to make sure that everyone's compliant. Like I say, make sure that those people that are coming me into school whether it's a sports coach, whether it's, you know, music tuition or in whatever capacity people have got direct contact with children. Obviously, we need to make sure that there's robust actions in place to make sure that that that things are safe. So yeah, there is an awful lot to do. As Louis said, you know, you you you're feeding back to the full governing board. Safeguarding is kind of like the backbone of how schools operate. So, you know, it's always on the agenda. But you do have those termly reports that
00:12:39
Speaker
the safeguarding link governor will write and then obviously then as Louise mentioned it gets checked it gets ratified before being presented to the to the governing board um and that will always be something that people will have plenty of questions about because if there's anything that you're going to kind of hold scrutiny it's going to be the safeguarding aspect before you even touch anything curriculum based. Yeah it's a big it is a big role it's an enjoyable one but it's far more than you know saying that you've read the latest version of keeping children safe in education, which to many people, they think that's really where where it kind of stops. It's couldn't be anywhere near from the truth. Yeah, thanks for sharing that Matt and Louise, and it's so true that what you guys are doing at link governance and safeguarding and SCND are huge, huge responsibilities. And I think what you've shared justifies why we need to do this do this podcast, which is to recruit people like yourself, passionate, experienced, Yeah, to to be on a school governing board to help people and the school in terms of sand and also safeguarding. And I think it is also important to mention the and extricable link and overlap that SCND and safeguarding have within the education sector. Some of our listeners may work in care with children or adults with SCND. And we'll definitely know a lot about the added vulnerability of these people and children. And in this podcast, we'll be talking about SCND and safeguarding as two separate skills and areas of expertise, but know that in many, many circumstances, the overlap is there.
00:14:16
Speaker
and both are incredibly valuable skills to bring to the table as a school governor. Yeah, and I think as well that the environment, sorry, safeguarding an SCND also lends themselves to environments that are touched by lots of people day to day, both in their personal.
00:14:32
Speaker
and professional roles so we know that the skills, the skills are out there, the skills are definitely out there and I think Louise what you touched on with regards to you know your opportunity to to be doing the Link Governor role is it's obviously a huge responsibility and it's a lot of work but also it gives you the opportunity to go and actually get into the school and really see what's happening on the ground with the pupils with with with the staff in the schools day in day out and it's yeah it's it's a great perspective to them bring back to that governing board table so it's not it doesn't feel kind of disjointed and like from this more strategic kind of level where you're sitting around a table looking at data and policies and what have you. It's lovely to be able to to bring that bring that in on a more kind of like personable level day to day within the school. Joyce, I can hand over to you. Cool. I feel like we've laid a pretty good foundation for safeguarding and also a sense. But we'd love to know more about you and Louis, to hear more about your governor journey. So what made you interested in becoming a school governor in the very first instance?
00:15:46
Speaker
so For me, it was I started as a parent governor, so when I've got two daughters, my eldest was in F2. I used to go in, I was working part-time at the time, I used to go in and read for with F2 one hour a week just to really to have a little nosy as to what was going on if I'm perfectly honest with it. just to see what was going on in the the classroom and see how my daughter was settling. But obviously then you get involved don't you and you you see kind of how the school runs and you you get to know some of the teachers and got speaking to speak to and the school business manager because ah and there was a parent governor vacancy at the time and she asked me if I'd be interested and that's how i how I eventually started getting involved. Not working in that sector at all as I've said it was a huge challenge to be fair
00:16:29
Speaker
and I spent the first year we had at the time an incredibly experienced long-term governing but body with a couple of the, we're a small governing body, a couple of the governors at the time had been in there since the late 1980s, so massive, massive experience and I was new and I didn't know any of the acronism you know acronyms, sorry, and I didn't, it was and completely alien and I spent the first probably six eight months thinking I've done the right thing here I'm really really not sure whether this is this is for me. Then COVID happened and governance well I don't know whether this is the same in your experience but governance just seemed to get shelved certainly for those first few months I think the schools were just reeling and trying to support the pupils as best they could support the staff everyone was very worried for all manner reasons for those that spring of 2020 weren't they but our
00:17:21
Speaker
had a teacher at the time, I think had a bit of a taste of finishing work at a reasonable time and had decided that she wanted to step aside once life got a bit back to normal in and September 2020 and schools reopened again. So and ah this um this coincided with me starting to think about stepping aside because I just thought I've done a year and this I'm not sure this is the right role for me. Everybody was really friendly and helpful but I didn't see what I was bringing to it at all and then she she announced that she was stepping aside and we were going to recruit obviously start the campaign for a new head teacher and they were asking if anybody had the local authority safer recruitment training and I was like oh I've done that I've done that professionally and you know I can help here. And then from there on, I was kind of hooked in more and more because I'd done that qualification or that training course, and it was kind of much more in my sphere of work in recruit recruitment and HR. And then obviously, yeah you know by the time you get to the end of a lengthy recruitment process for a head teacher, you know you're invested then, you want to see how they do, how they perform, and the rest is history, really. I think I just thought, well, if I'm going to do it, I need to learn.
00:18:26
Speaker
I need to put myself on courses, need to kind of get in as much as I can. Luckily our new head was really amenable to that. And yeah, it's it's just been, that's kind of my journey. And then as obviously the more I learned, the more I've picked up, the more link roles, the more kind of I've sort of moved through as people have moved off the governing board, I've then stepped up into other roles. So that's where, how I got to where I am now. a Like really,
00:18:52
Speaker
lovely journey to kind of start really just grassroots you wanted to go and see your daughter in school and then like here you are now great love it absolutely love it Matt what about yourself Yeah, I mean, from my perspective, I joined the school's governing board where where I still work now, because I've been at the school from an NQT and just worked worked my way up really into the leadership team. So I think it was my second, I think it was in my second year of teaching when I was on a residential, the governors were there and I think they twisted my arms to say, you know, you should join the governing body. You know, you'll really enjoy it.
00:19:23
Speaker
I know we're very right to be honest because I have really enjoyed it and the 12 years, the three terms flew by. I think at that point I was on obviously everyone's part of the full governing board and I was also on the buildings and finance which was quite nice. I didn't want to be on the curriculum side of it because I felt you know that was your bread and butter kind of Monday to Friday. So I really enjoyed the buildings and finance and kind of seeing an aspect that i wouldn't have really touched upon if i hadn't been a school governor and then after yeah when it got to those 12 years and and i could have started my fourth term it's interesting really because i mean louise mentioned about this that there's a lot of experienced governors on a lot of governing boards and that has many benefits but obviously there's also a few negative things that can creep in not that i experience personally but
00:20:05
Speaker
There was a big movement, I think, at national level almost to try and make sure that you know you got fresh ideas, fresh people in. But you know the only issue with that is they don't have the expertise. And the other issue is the fact that this is a volunteering position and there's not a wealth of people, particularly at certain schools that might be willing to to obviously step up and have a go. And thirdly, um the accountability aspect, which seems to go up and up and up and up and up. so it takes a certain type of person to put themselves forward for all of that, most definitely. um And obviously there's a lot of you know there's a lot at stake and we've already touched upon a lot of that in this podcast so far. At the end of that 12th year, there was a lot of, like I said, there was a lot of colleagues that were interested in doing the same thing and joining the governing board. So there was part of me that thought, well,
00:20:46
Speaker
you know, in a way it's a bit selfish for me just to crack on with it because, you know, I enjoy it and I'm used to it and I've got the experience. So I decided at that point to look at becoming a school governor elsewhere. Initially I was thinking about going to another primary school, but I'm really pleased that ah you know I actually ended up going to a secondary school and it's almost like ah a very big secondary school. It's um part of a kind of almost like a mat structure there, so very much different to the maintained school that I work at at the moment, which isn't part of an academy. So the two helped me an awful lot. As we've already spoken about, safeguarding is such a big
00:21:20
Speaker
such a big driver of my professional career and my my professional job that having that safeguarding link governor with my other school and the opportunities that gives me really does help kind of solidify my role as ah as one of the deputy DSLs for example at the primary school that I work at. When was it tail end of last week? We have safeguarding or regional safeguarding governor meetings so within that kind of map structure you've got all the safeguarding leads that can meet together and they can go through contextual safeguarding across the city of Birmingham. It's also just an opportunity, I suppose, for safeguarding link governance just to have a chat and you know reassure each other because sometimes it could be a little bit stressful and people don't always understand what the you know what the job description is, for want of a better phrase, because it's such such a big such a big thing. So yeah, that's how it's kind of evolved from my perspective. you know Having 12 years where it was directly aligned with my
00:22:14
Speaker
professional career and then just like a really great opportunity to actually branch a little bit further and especially at a different key stage or key stages as well to give me a kind of a much more holistic approach to how things operate in schools. ah That's great and I think I guess what you both touched on what I'm kind of getting from both of you there is It's afforded you lots of opportunities along the way to kind of grow and develop and maybe explore areas that you didn't necessarily think that you would kind of dive into when you first started out, thinking about being a governor and you're both you're both still doing it and doing so much great work, which is fab to hear. I think sort of, I know COVID has been brought up and it's such a massive thing and it has had a huge impact and obviously will
00:23:03
Speaker
continue to have a massive impact within education.
Impact of Covid on School Governance
00:23:07
Speaker
Do you have any particular moments on the governing board that have been pivotal to the direction of the school or the progress and attainment of pupils? You could talk about COVID or any other kind of experiences or moments that have cropped up that are really kind of key for you in both of your times on the school governing board.
00:23:30
Speaker
any jumping out, shall I go to Matt first on this one just to keep it making a lot? It's a really difficult, it's a really difficult question and really difficult for me to differentiate between my role as a school governor and from being a school leader because to be honest with you when you ask that question it's really the more kind of operational side of things like as in how on earth are we going to work out who you know is eligible for being a key worker and whose children can come into school and all those kind of things. Now that did fall on the plate of of the governing boards across the nation really at such a short, at such short notice I suppose. But yeah, it it's it's fundamentally the fact that obviously children were in school. Now my role as a school governor at secondary level kind of started really just after it had happened. We're in the Covid times but we're kind of dealing with it I suppose. But I know conversations that we had at those initial times was the fact that
00:24:25
Speaker
If you haven't got the, when those pupils aren't at school, whether they're deemed as being more vulnerable or not, straight away, you've got safeguarding questions that, that obviously come up and you know, the amount of days and time and hours that were spent from it, from a deputy head teacher's perspective at this point, phoning everyone, making sure everyone's all right. And really, it was the parents and carers that wanted more of a conversation, to be honest, than the actual children, because, you know, people were lonely back then. They wanted someone to speak to, they wanted reassurance and everything else. I mean, some of the data that I've managed to find in terms of, you know, the number of children who have been absent from school, especially when you think of in the post COVID times,
00:25:04
Speaker
125,000 in autumn 2022 were severely absent, which meant that they were in school less than 50% of the time. Now, that alone is an alarmingly high number of of children. Now, obviously, when we were dealing with the immediate aftermath of of COVID and dealing with COVID, you had 95% of schools across the nation who were in school. So that, for me, from a safeguarding perspective, was the biggest hurdle um to combat is you had to find out and make sure that and have reassurances that that those children were safe because if you can't see them you can't tell if they're safe and you can't presume we know that you only have to read the news to find that out so yeah from my perspective and it's kind of linked in like I know I've i've talked about the response from from you know an employee's perspective from it from a school leader's perspective but it definitely has a direct correlation with that of um from a governance perspective and particularly from a safeguarding governance governor's perspective because
00:26:02
Speaker
no one had trained for this, no one had ever could have ever believed that what was happening was happening. And to have such a high proportion of children nationally who weren't in school and therefore weren't potentially safe is quite an overwhelming thing to think about. And I know you know from from the perspective of the school that I currently work at, the school that I'm a governor of, and like I say, I was kind of like put into position after COVID started, but very much when remote learning was in place and everything else, it's making sure that and that people are safe. So there that would be the the overarching kind of memory from that period of time, from my perspective. That's great. It's really interesting. I imagine it's just completely, just fundamentally changed the way that you work on an individual level as a governor, but also perhaps as a whole governing board together in terms of focus.
00:26:54
Speaker
um um since since COVID happened. yeah and I know just to interject, but I know obviously like we're like we're having running this podcast now, kind of like using technology and I know governing boards prior to COVID, a large percentage of governing bodies would have met in person and there's ah there's a lot of benefits to meeting in person. But obviously now, especially with some of the subcommittees and we've meant we've mentioned about like link visits and all the rest of it, which are so important, whether they're subject link visits or safeguarding send and all the rest of it. i know and
00:27:24
Speaker
a lot of governing bodies still have those meetings in person but then some of the other meetings whether it be the odd full governing body meeting or and like I mentioned you know building some finance or curriculum to kind of ease the workload a little bit and just to make it more accessible they you know they get on a Teams call or a Zoom call so these are things that I think have been fast-tracked not just in education but across all aspects of life but that has helped. Yeah absolutely can definitely see that I don't know whether you found this in your school map, but I know talking to the Senco in the school where I'm a governor, I think the past few years of children coming through into F2.
00:28:04
Speaker
as I think she's found it really hard so to start of, sorry, to start to sort of identify any children who may have additional set needs because they come, especially last year, I think, were coming in with a lack of social skills because they were the year that didn't go to baby groups, if you like, when they were at that crucial social age. So they they weren't very good at kind of sharing or interacting with others others through no fault of their own just because they were probably one or two during that Covid year but that's kind of had an impact even on it the role of Senco I suppose because actually you've got an entirely different cohort coming in with a different skill set to maybe what what's been in previous years where you can start as an expert in this as opposed to identify traits of people that might need that early support
00:28:50
Speaker
I don't know if that's... Yeah, it's a really interesting conversation because I've thought about this, I mean I've got a daughter of my own who was born in 2020, so she's just started school, she's just started reception and obviously the reception class that ah that have just come through in the school in which I work, you can look at that group and think you know how affected are they going to be and I wholeheartedly agree with what you've mentioned. I think a lot of the issues that those children that have faced, those Covid babies have come through the parents and carers' predicament of of going through such an awful time. But then you can just, justifiably so, and this is once, once again, now looking at my role as a governor at a secondary school at the moment, that, you know, arguably those, those, those pupils who were, you know, of secondary school age, maybe, you know, 11, 12, 13, 14, you know, get about to kind of make that change into adulthood. um And having that kind of halted
00:29:44
Speaker
you know arguably you could say that they've been affected more than children who to be honest with you are so young that they you know they can't remember my daughter doesn't know covid or remember covid because she was too young however there's plenty of households and situations where you know with so much going on and the pressures going on that through the prism of the parent and carer you know a lot of aces a lot of adverse childhood experiences could have been you know thrust upon that child and that then now is having repercussions now as they've entered their schooling so you know it's a very you could talk all day long and I think i' mean obviously everyone was affected weren't they and to what degree is very subjective because yeah the conversations that we have at the governing boards meetings I have at a secondary school are very much different to those that I had you know within my working day at a primary school but they're
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah very much with what you said Louise there though with the fact that there there is a lot of need, there is a lot of need there now. Can I just ask Matt just off off the back of that obviously when you're on the governing board at the secondary school and you're saying that obviously you know the focus is is different to to where you work professionally, do you how do you bring your learnings back to your professional role?
00:30:57
Speaker
And I guess, ah Louise, I can ask you to say the same question. like How's how's the kind of the overall role of a school governor? Obviously, Matt, you've kind of got the more intricate detail between primary and secondary within the education sector. But then, Louise, as well, for you, just bringing it back generally into your into your professional life. Matt, I'll go back to you. Yeah. and For me, it kind of works twofold. like with With my role, with with the the governance role at a secondary school, it's really nice to know, because you know open up until that year six, when children do their SATs and then they start their transition work and taste the days and all the rest of it, and then they kind of fly the nest and off they go into year seven, it's really nice to kind of see how that year seven then turns into year eight and then into key stages three and four, and obviously they then leave and you know join
Encouragement for Aspiring School Governors
00:31:46
Speaker
the working world. and
00:31:47
Speaker
and become incredibly successful people that that is really really interesting to see that kind of like you know because ah otherwise I was in year six as a year six teacher for the first sort of i'll day five six years of my teaching career and I loved that age group and I loved the fact you had those hurdles to get across and all the rest of it get them ready and prepare them for for the next phase of their life um conversely coming back the other way where I find it helps me um professionally the the role of the school governor is the fact that particularly at secondary school um
00:32:19
Speaker
Because I think of economies of scale and people, um when reports are presented, whether it's an attendance report, and that's part of obviously the safeguarding remit or ideas linked with how they can develop the curriculum. I take those back to primary and we have chats about those in SLT meetings and things of that nature to a watered down degree due to just capacity, for want of a better phrase. And obviously primary and secondary are two completely different ecosystems. but What it offers me is I get loads of ideas that I can then take back. Some might be applicable, like directly applicable. Some might need a bit of a tinker around with to make them kind of relevant for the primary sector. But that's that's really helped me professionally. And like I say, it's also been nice to see through my role as a governor, kind of what happens to those pupils when they leave the primary phase. Yeah, that makes total sense. I can totally see it. What about you, Louise, kind of bringing those skills back?
00:33:15
Speaker
to what you do day to day in your role? I think the role I do professionally is a very much an operational role, working like a resource and environment, to kind of bringing people in and, you know, onboarding them and HR and what have you. I think where the school government role really has benefited me is the strategic oversight. I think it encourages me to be a more strategic thinker because obviously you put your governor hat on your governance hat on and you're looking at your strategic planning you're keeping way out of the operational because that's not your remit at all so I think then being able to kind of in the day job actually put that strategic hat on and think well okay that's not my role here to be strategic but I need to you know think ahead and it just helps I think it just helps give that there's no kind of
00:34:04
Speaker
like direct examples, like obviously Matt's got in terms of how it will actually impact his day job. But for me, it's certainly kind of just given me that greater oversight and encouraging me to sort of think bigger, I suppose. Yeah, definitely. I can totally see that. Absolutely. Joyce, over to you.
00:34:25
Speaker
Cool. I guess, yeah, there are a lot of benefits to being a school governor. I'm a school governor myself as well. And I've learned so much from being a school governor. um Yeah, so I really encourage people to be a school governor. And I believe you guys have the same thought too. As this podcast comes to an end, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to people who are considering to be a school governor?
00:34:50
Speaker
Okay, if you're coming from outside of working in education and not having any knowledge, I would say if you if you do decide to become a governor, obviously you've got to be prepared for the amount of time I think and it takes. I think you get the most out of it when you you put into it, so you're being prepared to undertake training, being prepared to to kind of learn about the role that you're going to do. But also I'd i'd say and I say this to anybody who joins our governing body is if the school is amenable, get in as much as you can. I think that would be the greatest bit of advice to actually see what is going on day to day in the school.
00:35:25
Speaker
and how the decisions you take impact that and how the the documents you look at are reflecting the real life you know the actual you know the children and fundamentally at the end of the day isn't it it's kind of getting those children the best educational start that they can have in a safe environment and and you're a part of that so but it's really important for you to actually I think get in and and see that and and and that will help shape you into the kind of governor that hopefully will be acting in the best interest of the children in school. That's helpful. What about you, Matt?
00:36:00
Speaker
to To be fair yeah I think Louise has hit the nail on the head there because I think it is so important to be able to go in and um and and visit schools and to c and to see them in you know in action because you know you could be a governor for years and years and years sometimes and probably never set foot you know in the school when the when the pupils are there and the children are there and not see you know all those policies in action for want of a better phrase I think that is so so important and I know it's a big driver for all schools to try and get their governors in more. you know That's where now there's much more of an emphasis on coming in to look at subjects and for every subject to have a linked governor so they can come in and so they can hold the teaching staff to account. But more importantly, for loop from the governor's perspective, is to build that rapport with the staff and the children. And you know they're such an incredibly important stakeholder of a school. you know The chair of governors, as as as Louise has alluded to, are responsible for recruiting staff and head teachers. and
00:36:55
Speaker
you know, there's no more important job than that to make sure that you've got the right people working with, you know, the next generation of of our workforce and and our society really. The other bit of key advice that I would talk about, and I know Louise has alluded to this as well, is just ask questions. When I think back to when I was a first to school governor, and bearing in mind, you know, I worked in a school at that point Monday to Friday, but as you said, there's so many acronyms to learn, you know,
00:37:20
Speaker
what's pecuniary interest? What does that mean? And you know, it was months until actually I started to join the dots a little bit and think, okay, right, understand how that works. And even 12 years later, when I then went at secondary level, you know, yes, the structure of a meeting was similar, um but it was very much different. um So it's still a learning curve. It's a constant learning curve, always, always ask questions, always and And when I mean that, ask questions if you're unsure, but also always ask questions of the school and don't be afraid to hold a school to account because schools want their governors to ask questions. There is nothing worse than having a governing board that don't want to ask questions because they think it might be awkward and and things of that nature. Obviously,
00:38:00
Speaker
you know, it's all linked in with the ethos of the school and the way it's done. but It is incredibly important to ask ask questions for the collective benefit of of the school, but yeah, go for it. it's ah it's a very It's such a rewarding position, I think, even from someone who's in education and been in education for a good while now, but I wouldn't volunteer my time because we're all busy people if I didn't think it was worth it. Absolutely, absolutely.
00:38:28
Speaker
But what you've said, both of you, is so valuable. um And hopefully, you know, S&D and safeguarding are vast, vast topics. And we couldn't possibly kind of go into all the intricate details of what that looks like on a
00:39:49
Speaker
but actually being able to network with other governors in other schools and chat about the challenges that you're
00:40:54
Speaker
And we also want you to feel confident in your governance role as quickly as possible. So we have ah a range of free e-learning modules on a number of topics. We also hold regular webinars so you can continue your learning and have the opportunity to ask our governance experts questions.
00:41:12
Speaker
And once placed at the school, you'll be given 12 months free access to online Governor Resource and Knowledge Band from Governor Hub Knowledge. So once you've submitted your application, it is definitely worth checking out all of that as well as any other of our podcast episodes, which might strike your fancy.
00:41:39
Speaker
experiences and advice and also thank you everyone for listening who will hopefully be back with another episode soon. So stay tuned!