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Does M Remember?
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It's been a good long while since we tested M's recall of their student radio days, so Josh has curated a package of themed episodes to quiz them with. Can M remember the details of conspiracy content that is even older than this podcast? Yes and no.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy
00:00:07
Speaker
The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Edison and Ian Denteth.
Recording Challenges: Construction Noise
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the podcast's guide to the conspiracy in Auckland, New Zealand. am Josh Addison in Guangzhou, China. They are Dr. M.R. Extenteth. um do do Do we have anything to say up the top here?
00:00:40
Speaker
Or sure should we just launch straight into it? think we should launch straight into it in part because, and people will be aware, previous episodes have been somewhat stymied by building work. Now, there hasn't been any sustained drilling for a few days up until Tuesday, at which point the drilling commenced for half a day.
00:01:00
Speaker
And so I had this horrible fear that if we make these intros really, really long, we slip into the possibility of there being construction noise going on beneath me. So I say we slip straight into a topic I know nothing about and I'm completely unprepared for. But that is my preparation for this week.
Revisiting Conspiracy Corner Episodes
00:01:21
Speaker
Exactly. We are doing, for the first time in more than a year, I think. I think there's only the third time we've done. I think for the third time only. We're doing an episode of Does M Remember? for which we do at least have a little sting. So let's play that now.
00:01:38
Speaker
Oi, have you heard? It's conspiracy. At the risk of your own sanity. Keep listening. So, how about you tee it up then? what what what What are we about to do in this segment? Explain it to people who don't remember it from the last time we did it.
00:01:57
Speaker
I mean, the problem is I might not remember it because it's such a long time since we did it. But I think if I really, really search my memories, the whole point of Does Em Remember? is that Josh has been going through a collection of episodes of the two 95 BFM shows I did back in the day.
00:02:19
Speaker
95 BFM is a student radio station still active at the University of Auckland in the city of Auckland in Aotearoa, New Zealand. And I did two segments, Conspiracy Corner and The Dentist Files, most of which are... either available online or I've managed to archive. And Josh has chosen at least one episode, although
Welsh Conspiracy Theories and Road Sign Mix-Up
00:02:42
Speaker
maybe more than one. And Josh is going to test my memory as to whether I can recall topics I discussed oh so long ago.
00:02:53
Speaker
That is all correct, yes. um We're going to be looking at episodes of Conspiracy Corner from 2011 and 2012. I have more than one episode I've looked at. I've picked out a few with a common theme.
00:03:08
Speaker
that theme high heels? They're involved. Is that theme death of the universe? No.
00:03:20
Speaker
Is that theme sausages? we can we No, no. i'm actually right So High high high Heels is is my best guess. High Heels is the closest you've come. But but before before we get into the theme, I do actually have an extra. there There was another little episode that just sort of stuck out at me and I thought it's worth... We can use it as as an aperitif before we get into the main meal of the episode. This this one just stuck out to me because i I saw the title of it and thought, wonder what's going on there. So can you play the very first clip, clip 1A, from which I have censored two words?
00:03:57
Speaker
And I want to see if you can remember what those two words are. Okay, we're about to play clip When it comes to large scale conspiracies, you type in conspiracy theory into Google. The most common hit you'll get is a funny little story about how there was a road sign mix up.
00:04:18
Speaker
A road sign Do you know what you were talking about there? Now I'll give you a clue. This episode is from August 2011.
00:04:29
Speaker
Do you remember what you had done not too long ago according to this episode anyway? In 2011?
Memory Test on 2011-2012 Conspiracy Topics
00:04:35
Speaker
Was this about submitting or getting ready to submit a PhD?
00:04:41
Speaker
na it was about travel. Had I, oh, the problem was Josh, you're talking to someone who is very well-traveled to the point where i know I've been to places, like I can't remember when I've been to those places. I've been to the UK and come back from the UK by that particular point in time.
00:05:02
Speaker
I might have been going to a conference in Singapore or having just come back from a conference in Singapore or maybe even, no, Kuxing is after I submit the PhD. So if it's still during the PhD, it's pre-Kuxing.
00:05:18
Speaker
Singapore did go to a few times conference-wise. or is this going to be going to, this is not going to the US for that conference or is it?
00:05:30
Speaker
You're right in one of those. Why don't you play clip one b and all will be revealed?
Illuminati Symbolism in Music Videos
00:05:35
Speaker
But when it comes to actually large-scale conspiracies, you type in Welsh or Wales conspiracy theory into Google. The most common hit you'll get is a funny little story about how there was a road sign mix-up where the English said turn left and the Welsh said turn ah sorry look look look right, the Welsh said look left, people said, oh, you know, maybe the Welsh authorities are trying to kill off all those English speakers who don't understand Welsh.
00:06:01
Speaker
There we go. Well, I don't recall that in any way, shape or form. Well, that's good then. it's It's good we're doing this episode to jog your memory. So, yes, you did a little episode about Welsh conspiracy theories and the lack thereof, really.
00:06:17
Speaker
oh and I remember why, because the former producer of Conspiracy Corner went to Cardiff to do her postgraduate degree. And so it's a kind of homage to her.
00:06:31
Speaker
she said, oh are there any Welsh conspiracy theories? And I was going, not that I know of And I did a cursory search discover that I couldn't find any particular Welsh conspiracy theories online at the time. So I remember the context under which this episode was made, but I don't remember the actual conspiracy theory itself.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yes, well, yes, so there was there was the road sign one, and that was the only real conspiracy theory you'd been able to unearth, apart from conspiracy theories around Princess Di, who was, of course, the Princess of Wales. Princess Wales.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, I do remember, i mean, there was a lot of discussion about Welsh road signs at the time, in that there were what may have been malicious compliance or simply bad practices in councils of...
00:07:21
Speaker
English officials going, oh, we need to, we we need a name for X. What is the translation for X? And someone is giving them either the wrong translation or a literal translation of what they'd asked for rather than what the name was meant to refer to. So thus there are all sorts of weird street names, which is what is the name of the street but in Welsh.
00:07:43
Speaker
Right. Yeah, because there weren't very many Welsh conspiracy theories, you then spent most of the rest of the episode talking about the prisoner, which was, of course, based on... what What's the place? Port Merion? Port Merion, which is in the north of Wales. I'm surprised i didn't talk a lot about Doctor Who or Torchwood.
00:08:02
Speaker
No, all the prisoner in this episode. I mean, The Prisoner is a much more conspiracy-orientated TV show. And any chance to talk about Patrick McGowan, who turns out to be not a very nice man, was always a pleasure back in those days.
00:08:18
Speaker
So yes, i I just found that one interesting. I saw you'd done an episode on the lack of Welsh conspiracy theories and thought, I need to know more. We should do we should doing an episode of this poll podcast on a lack of conspiracy theories. A lack of conspiracy theories from the year 1977. lack of conspiracy theories is about Josh's mum.
00:08:41
Speaker
yep The possibilities are literally endless ah But let's end to this bit now and getting out now So so we we have a theme That that that wasn't the theme nothing Nothing that we're about to talk about Has anything to do with whales or princess time Because there's nothing even high heels Adjacent to that particular story I'm sure princess time And that's the only clue I've got So i'm'm I'm resting on that And it's it's a fairly a fairly loose association with high heels. But, so, let's get into it properly. The first episode I would like to talk about is one you recorded March of 2011. Would you play clip two and then answer me who you're talking about in that clip?
00:09:22
Speaker
Certainly. Here's clip to. And the theory is that if you get a popular artist to just casually drop in references to the esoteric or black art, then people will go, oh, that's perfectly normal, and we'll have child sacrificing and nude orgies by tomorrow, lunchtime.
00:09:40
Speaker
Is this going to be the discussion of weird imagery in Lady Gaga videos? You are 100% correct. You are talking about Lady Gaga.
00:09:51
Speaker
Actually, you to to begin with, that that was Lady Gaga were talking about in the clip. To begin with, you started talking the episode about Friday by Rebecca Black. That bang, classic song, classic song. And how much you and your co-hosts hated it intensely, which...
00:10:10
Speaker
who Just to the people listening, do you remember Friday by Rebecca Black? It was a big deal for like five seconds. It was the song that was not good. It was not a good song. Sung by a young woman who was not a great singer.
00:10:23
Speaker
But she then got a whole lot of crap that she didn't did I think we all agree now she did not deserve at all. No, and actually, in retrospect, I actually think Friday is a bit of a classic tune.
00:10:34
Speaker
It's also interesting because... in your mind if you If you analyze the video, the Sky Tower in Auckland is in the video. and To get the exact shot of the car on the road with the Sky Tower in the right proportions, they have to be driving through the harbor.
00:10:54
Speaker
So it's an um amazing aquatic car. The other thing to note is, of course, yeah she did get... undue strife for this music video because essentially her parents paid for a music video to be made by one of those production outfits in LA and it got leaked online essentially yeah essentially got leaked online was never meant to be mass consumption music video but to Rebecca Black's credit She rolled with those punches, so to speak, and now has a music career, part of which is making fun of that music video. sir but yes So you you had a quick a quick chat about Friday, which, as you pointed out, is is in no way the result of a conspiracy, just just vanity press for music.
00:11:42
Speaker
But then moved on to the actual conspiratorial topic in the more a conspiratorial topic in the world of music, which was Illuminati and, to a lesser extent, satanic conspiracy theories that
The Short-lived Illuminati's Influence
00:11:54
Speaker
that pop up. And Lady Gaga at the time was the biggest one because, of course, she does that she she her big thing was like covering up one her one eye with her hand and the whole single eye, Illuminati, all of that business.
00:12:05
Speaker
But as you said in in in the episode, it's probably less a matter of she's actually a secret member of the Illuminati and this is them getting their stuff out there than the person who did her music video was a fan of that sort of esoteric symbolism and just decided to work a bunch of it in there.
00:12:22
Speaker
Yes, and there was a kind of almost a feeling of a self-fulfilling prophecy here in that people like Lady Gaga were getting a lot of traction because people were looking at the music videos and looking at the imagery going, oh, I wonder what that means. which then led to people in the business going, well, this kind of stuff helps sell and creates discussion about music videos. We should include more of this kind of imagery with other artists as well.
00:12:53
Speaker
So what was taken to be a large-scale conspiracy of, oh, the Freemasons and the Satanists and the Illuminati are... hawking their wares in front of our eyes was really more the music industry going, yeah, this stuff gets people talking around the water cooler, so let's do a little bit more of it. Let's lean into it, yeah.
00:13:13
Speaker
so in this episode, you actually gave a ah quick overview of the history of the Illuminati, which... I know we we have mentioned this before, but it probably, I don't think it gets mentioned enough, and you did mention it in this year episode, the fact that the Illuminati didn't actually last very long at all.
00:13:29
Speaker
I mean, obviously, if you listen to people, though they say, oh they never really went away, they just went underground and so on. But it was only, what, was it like 10 years, 20 years or something from... yeah Yeah, something along those lines. So Vishal basically has the idea that equality, fraternity and liberty are great virtues which are lacking in European society.
00:13:50
Speaker
The governments of Europe should be more equal, fraternal, and liberal. The only way to achieve that is basically to infiltrate those governments. What's the best way to do that? Well, everyone to Freemason. So if we can change Freemasonry, then we can change what people take to be the virtues of civics. So infiltrate Freemasonic organizations in order to change the world. And it turns out when people found out about this plot, they're going, we don't really like the idea of equality, liberty, and fraternity, because that sounds like that's going to allow poor people to have equal station in society. So that got shut down very quickly.
00:14:32
Speaker
But it was a real conspiracy. People really were infiltrating secret societies to instigate even more secret societies
Illuminati Theories: Blue Ivy and Celebrity Connections
00:14:42
Speaker
within them.
00:14:43
Speaker
And it was, it seems, a fairly noble goal. But then it went away, and yet people are still talking about it now, century or two later. So you move from Illuminati conspiracy theories into also this type of satanic conspiracy theories that show up in the music world. I mean, there's the classic story of, you know, the person selling their soul to the devil at a crossroads to be the best fiddle player in the world and that sort of thing, and and yet such stories tend to persist to the modern age where people will will try to say that all these people owe their success to Satanism and then also look for satanic symbols in their work, which does lead into the next episode. But before we go, before we go to the the next episode, there was an interesting little historical note at the end, which has not nothing to do with conspiracy theories, but I found it interesting. Play clip three, and again, can you remember who you were talking about here?
00:15:34
Speaker
Pop historians, I have to point out, the band... was initially formed by a bunch of role players. So of course that's why you get all of these imageries about the occult, magic, wizards and dwarfs appearing in the music, because that's what they did when they weren't rocking out on stage. They were rolling three six-sided dives trying to work out whether their fireball was going to kill that hobbit.
00:16:00
Speaker
I'd be talking about Led Zeppelin, wouldn't I? You were very much talking about Led Zeppelin, yes. I found that interesting. I also found it interesting that you knew that you do indeed roll 3d6 calculate the damage on a fireball, which...
00:16:11
Speaker
was quite impressed. kind of quitempressed I only know that now because my my son now plays Dungeons & Dragons with his friends. Yes, George, you only know that now because of your children. You didn't know that prior to that point in time.
00:16:23
Speaker
i did at some stage know that prior to that, but I think by 2011 it had been such a long time since I'd had anything to do with Dungeons & Dragons myself that that information would have would have fled my mind.
00:16:34
Speaker
Now, admittedly, D&D is not my preferred role-playing system. I'm more of a Blades in the Dark fan myself. But one of my greatest regrets was that many, many, many years ago, i picked up the original first edition AD&D Dungeon Master book, player handbook, and monster manual at a...
00:16:59
Speaker
kind of garage sale at the Sea Scouts in Devonport, and then sold it on to a secondhand bookstore several years later, not realizing just how valuable those books turned out to be.
00:17:14
Speaker
Oh, well, that's a bit of a shame. So to take your mind off it, shall we move on to the next episode? This one, we're moving forwards in time a little bit to January of 2012, but we're so we're staying in the same in the same arena. That's the year of the doomsday.
00:17:30
Speaker
It was, and yet wasn't at the same time. ah So, once again, can you play clip four? And again, tell me what you and your co-host are talking about in this clip. Okay, so it's good for the last episode. I'm probably going to be awful for this one, but let's give it a go. Only produce one. It's very rare. Probably will sell very, very well on either.
00:17:51
Speaker
Or be taken by a witch. Sorry, I need to listen to that clip again because I i do because it's very short and the context is scant to say the list. Only produce one. it's very rare. Probably will sell very, very well on either.
00:18:04
Speaker
Or be taken by a witch. I'm not talking about the Wu-Tang album that was bought by that terrible pharmaceutical guy by any chance, are we? I think that was post-dates this. I'm not sure. But no, no, you were not talking about that or any other album.
00:18:20
Speaker
Was talking about high heels? I guess it is the Lady Gaga connection than the previous one, but I'm going take a punt. Was it Dorothy's Magic Slippers? Quick question, what colour were those slippers?
00:18:34
Speaker
Oh, so, they are, in the movie, they're the ruby slippers, but in the original book, aren't they silver? They are, yes, silver slippers. There we go. okay And the reason why they went for ruby with the film is that in Technicolor, ruby slippers look so much more impressive than silver slippers would do.
00:18:52
Speaker
Yes, I can imagine. And The Wizard of Oz was one of the first big colour films back in the age when colour was actually expensive, so they saved it for their their big marquee events. But anyway, no, it's in nothing to Back in the day where you could paint a person silver and give them lung damage and also almost burn a witch to death on sand. Yes, yes.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, well yeah and and speaking of witches, so in in that clip, that this this thing that there was only one of might sell well on eBay or get taken by a witch, you were not talking about a record or any other thing, you were talking about a person, actually.
00:19:28
Speaker
Can you imagine which person you might have been? a child? A child? Yep, you were speaking about a child. 2011. I can't imagine. Josh, what children were i for was I fascinated by in is context. It's going to be very... and In a future episode of Does M Remember, when you clip out the, Josh, what child was I fascinated by in 2011, is going to be the quote that comes back to haunt me.
00:20:00
Speaker
yeah Everyone was fascinated by this child in 2011. Everyone was fascinated by this child, yeah. Recently born to a pair of individuals who are relevant to the theme of this episode.
00:20:11
Speaker
Relevant to the theme of this episode being High Heels. So a pair of shoes gave birth to a child, and then we became really fascinated by that child. You may need to give me slightly more. I think we've moved on from the high heels was the little aspect of it. It's the only clue I've got, Josh. It's the only clue I've got.
00:20:32
Speaker
but I thought we'd established that the theme is music in general. So two musicians had a child in 2012. Did they? they could sleep british mus yeah i'm Probably more than one, actually. i imagine quite a lot of children were born probably to to to celebrities at the time. Shall I put you out of your misery?
00:20:51
Speaker
Please do, because I'm going, i I can't even remember what music came out in 2012. I can't remember who who the artists of 2012 were. Well, i mean, these were artists who were possibly bigger individually earlier than 2012, but by 2012, Beyonce and Jay-Z were very much popular. this their Weird Child Blue, Blue something?
00:21:14
Speaker
blue Blue Ivy, you are correct. Yeah, I'd say Blue Origin, but of course that's Jeff Bezos' space agency. Blue Ivy, oh yes, the old Blue Ivy.
00:21:26
Speaker
So do you remember why people thought to the fact that their newborn was named Blue Ivy was somehow proof that it was there there was a conspiracy that they were hinting at? Didn't. Didn't people make some kind of connection to the Illuminati at the time with the name Blue Ivy?
00:21:43
Speaker
They did. There were two. There were two putative reasons that white why her name showed that this was actually Illuminati members, Beyonce and Jay-Z, showing the world that they were loyal to the Illuminati. One...
00:21:57
Speaker
was the claim that Blue Ivy stands for Born Living Under Evil Illuminati's Very Youngest, which is a shit-acted name, although it does hit the words. Yeah, that's in a classic case of we need to find a way to explain this name. Let me let me spend 15 minutes brainstorming. What can I get here? So,
00:22:27
Speaker
very young. No, right, no, no, no. I can make this work. Just give me more time. Just give me more time.
00:22:39
Speaker
You did try to come up with an acronym yourself in the episode and also failed because it's an awkward arrangement of letters. So that was one. bo um Born living under evil, Illuminati is very youngest, which you and your co-host pointed out would imply that the Blue Ivy was therefore the last Illuminati member ever if she was their very youngest. Surely that name would not continue to apply if another Illuminati baby were born after her.
00:23:05
Speaker
You know, just Blue Ivy Junior, Blue Ivy 2, Blue Ivy Harder, Blue Ivy with Indians. Blue Ivy and this time we mean it, yes. yeah So that was one. That was one why people had tried to claim that Blue Ivy was a scion of the Illuminati. The other one was the claim that Blue Ivy backwards is Evie Elub.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yes, I do remember. Obviously. You immediately know what that means. Yes, which they claim means, like, is Latin for Child of Lucifer or something. and But obviously not only is it not Latin for Child of Lucifer, it's not Latin or any other language at all. It's the kind of thing you associate with. with a Latin chant in a horror film in the same way that O Fortuna is always taken to be classic Satanist hymn that gets played, even though actually it's got nothing to with Satanism whatsoever. It just sounds melodramatic. People will go, oh, that sounds like Latin chant. because of Yeah, that's because Latin chants you've heard in most films is just something that sounds good on film.
00:24:18
Speaker
a ah Do you actually remember, you did explain this in the episode, do you remember why Blue Ivy was actually called Blue Ivy? No idea. That is the kind of information i would have boned up on at the time and then gone, I am never going to need this in the rest of my professional life and thus regretting that because I really should remember it now.
00:24:39
Speaker
Right, I will be clipping you saying boned up at the time, but we'll save that for later. Yes, just out of interest, Blue Jay-Z has a thing for the colour blue.
00:24:49
Speaker
um He wears a lot of blue. His albums have blue in their names and what have you, so that was it. And then Ivy is a reference to IV, the Roman numeral for four, because both Beyonce and Jay-Z have a thing for the number four. Apparently they were both born on the fourth of their respective months. They were married on April the 4th, the 4th of the 4th. Four's an important number to them. So that's why that's where Ivy comes from.
00:25:13
Speaker
But yeah, so you talked about the the birth of Blue Ivy, otherwise known as Baby Yonce, which I thought was quite nice, as an excuse to talk about more Illuminati conspiracy theories. around her parents in particular. and And again, the idea that, yes, they're either in the Illumati or that they're Satanists. And this idea with with it with ah with ah a little tinge of racism in there as well, the idea that a couple of people, in particular a couple of African-Americans, could not rise to the heights of success that that they had without selling their soul to the devil or something.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yes, which unfortunately has a very, very long history in the annals of music going all the way back to people selling their souls to be great fiddle players.
00:25:56
Speaker
Those stories are largely only talked about with respect to African-American musicians. Because how dare a person with dark skin tone know how to blow air through a tube?
00:26:08
Speaker
Did you see Sinus? Oh, Straw Strain. Did I see Oh, yes, I did. Yes. Very good. Very good, wasn't It was. It was. If you haven't seen it, you should. And you sort of just rehashed some of the things you talked about in the and the Lady Gaga episode. But there was an interesting note at the end, which... um i don't I don't recall coming up in the past, but you did you did at the time, you said that these particular theories about Illuminati theories around around Blue Ivy and her name and what have you, you said that um there were some some of the what you might call true believers in Illuminati conspiracy theories didn't like the Blue Ivy ones at all because they thought they only existed to make Illuminati conspiracy theories sound stupid.
00:26:58
Speaker
and so So people who thought, I don't there really are Illuminati out there, were were dead against these sorts of conspiracy theories because they thought yeah they're not true and they're just designed to make us sound bad. Yes, actually, this is a common refrain for certain parts of communities that have particular conspiracy theories where other members of the community have varied theories concerning the same event. So the great example of this are 9-11 inside job conspiracy theories, which range from hologrammatic planes to the Twin Towers never existed, to remote-controlled planes, to controlled demolition and the like. If you've ever spent any time on a 9-11 inside job you will discover that actually there's a lot of infighting in that community when it comes to, well, I believe they were hologrammatic planes and the the towers were destroyed by controlled demolition versus the people who, no, they were destroyed by controlled demolition, but real planes flew into them.
00:28:02
Speaker
Your hologrammatic nonsense makes our theory look like a mockery. And so I can understand why at the time when the Blue Ivy conspiracy theories are coming about, the kind of people who seriously believe in the existence of, say, a deep state or the Illuminati being in control of world government, is going know that they wouldn't be involved in something so stupid and so theatrical.
00:28:28
Speaker
If people start promoting this, it makes the rest of us look bad. So, yeah, that does. that It makes a lot of sense that was going on at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And that was what you sort of closed out that episode on.
00:28:39
Speaker
And so then that brings us to the to the last episode in this theme that I wanted to look at. This theme appears to be the Illuminati. Well, it's it's it's conspiracy theories in the world of music, I think. because Ah, okay. All right. this This next one doesn't go into the Illuminati so much, but it is very conspiratorial. and music-oriented, and yeah you use a particular event to talk about the idea of celebrity endorsement of of various theories. And in in in establishing that theme, you start this episode with what is possibly your most controversial opinion ever.
00:29:18
Speaker
Can you please play clip I'm a bit worried about clipping on... Clipping? Clicking on clip 5A. Controversial opinion. Mm-hmm. All right, let's see what I may or may not be committed to this present day. I'm so fantastic that I'm actually riding on the power of my very limited radio celebrity to the point I feel I need to endorse lots lots of views to make the most of my celebrity nature. I just want to put it out there.
00:29:47
Speaker
Right. So there you're teeing up the fact that you're going to use your internet your your your student radio celebrity to put forth a radical view that you endorse as as on the back of your celebrity.
00:30:00
Speaker
Do you remember what that view was?
Strong Opinions on Fish Fingers
00:30:02
Speaker
I'm assuming it's grunge and music is terrible. Or at least grunge music by male vocalists is terrible. I've got a soft spot for Hull.
00:30:13
Speaker
Well, yes, don't we all? No, that was not the opinion you were putting forth. It's even more possibly, such a thing is possible, it's even more controversial. was it my controversial opinion that male singers can get in the sea?
00:30:27
Speaker
No, wasn it ah i'll I'll give you a clue. It wasn't anything to do with music. It was just an opinion that you earnestly and fervently hold to this day, I assume.
00:30:38
Speaker
Oh, now trying to work out whether I said something jocular or something serious. And then I'm going, I want to commit to my most fervently held opinions once again air for all the world to listen to, or at least the the eight subscribers we have on YouTube and how many subscribers we have via various podcasts, syndication systems. Josh, you're going to have to give me a hint.
00:31:05
Speaker
Why don't I just put you out of your misery and you play clip 5b? Alright, let's find out what I'm committed to and whether I'm still committed to it. I'm gonna put it out there.
00:31:16
Speaker
Fish fingers are horrible. You son of a bitch. Now ironically, any anythings about fish ironically, I've actually got some vegan fish fingers in the freezer.
00:31:29
Speaker
I wasn't vegan at the time that this came out, or was I vegan by the time this came out? It was 2012. Yeah, it's possible I was vegan by this particular point in time. But you were person who had eaten fish fingers and had strong opinions. Yes, and i i kind of know the context as to why I probably would have been talking about fish fingers. Yeah.
00:31:51
Speaker
So our friend Grisham, around about that time, bought some fish fingers as comfort food because he hadn't eaten them in about 10 years and only remembered them from his childhood and thought they would be delightful to eat and then discovered that actually there's a reason why people stop eating fish fingers as they approach adulthood because they're horrible.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah. Are fish fingers a British thing? Do Americans know what fish fingers are? Imagine... Yeah, i guess I guess for people outside of the Commonwealth, fish fingers are a lot like chicken nuggets. A lot like chicken nuggets. they're made it of fish and they're longer. So, I mean, i know I know McDonald's have done fish nuggets at some point. Imagine a fish nugget, but it's an elongated chip. perfectly rectangular, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's...
00:32:47
Speaker
That's a fish finger. Now, admittedly, I imagine fish fingers today probably of a higher quality than fish fingers were, say, in the 80s when we were eating them as children. It's been a while. it's like They are the sort of food you give to young children to shut them up. And, yeah, I don't think we've – we have had fish fingers in the house, but not for a long time because now my boys are a bit too old for them as well, I think. so But when we had them more in more recent times, I don't remember them being any good. so you I do have some vegan fish fingers in the freezer because I find I'm doing a g Grisham here and I'm going, haven't had fish fingers a long time. I can't eat real fish being vegan, but I can try a vegan fish finger. and I imagine they're probably as bad as I think they're going to be.
00:33:39
Speaker
Probably. I have a similar relationship with KFC. I don't don't eat it often, not because I'm vegan or anything, but because it's usually bloody horrible. But it's always, you always get that, oh, should have a bit of KFC. And then, oh, okay, there's a reason why. they ge I have the same thing with KFC.
00:33:57
Speaker
And i I don't mean the the white powder makes you go, whee! I mean the actual drink. Which also makes you go, whee! I do not like Coca-Cola, but occasionally I go, why don't I like Coca-Cola? So I will buy a Coca-Cola, and then I'll drink it, you because it's foul, and it tastes hard. horrible. The only time I'll drink Coca-Cola is basically when traveling on a plane because most people, certainly josh Josh here is holding up his caffeine addiction of choice, which is the drink Mountain Dew. Now, I'll drink Coca-Cola on a plane in a situation where after an 11-hour flight, if I need caffeine before disembarking, i will drink Coke rather than
00:34:45
Speaker
coffee in part because a coffee on a plane is horrible b coffee on a plane is always somehow hotter than is possible to be hot and c you also don't know what the strength of that coffee is going to be so either could be incredibly weak or incredibly strong coca-cola is a measured dose of caffeine but by and large i have the same experience with coke Yep. Okay, anyway, enough enough food talk. this This episode did not have a theme of food. It had a theme... It had an incident from the music world, which then led into talk of celebrities endorsing
Mass Shootings and Government Staging Theories
00:35:23
Speaker
conspiracy theories. The particular event involved Dave Mustaine of the band Megadeth. Do you remember what Dave Mustaine said as during a concert in Singapore in August of 2012?
00:35:36
Speaker
This wasn't a white nationalist thing by any chance, was it? wasn't a white nationalist thing, no. All right, because i mean yeah I know there has been some member of that heavy metal community that's done an anti-immigration rant around about that time. yeah it's is it Is it a UFO-related hypothesis?
00:35:57
Speaker
No. what's What's the one kind of conspiracy theory that we always... people seem to like to fling around... anti-semitic conspiracy theories. Oh, actually, that's probably true. Of the ones we look at, which which which which is the one that, oh, it's always one of these bloody ones?
00:36:15
Speaker
JFK? JFK? False flag! Oh! Which false flag was he endorsing at the time? ah He said, during a concert in Singapore, that Barack Obama, then president, had staged the recent Aurora shootings and the recent Sikh temple massacre because of a gun control bill that he was trying to pass. I do recall this now, yes, I do recall this. Suggesting that his country was in some way turning into Nazi America, which some people report, like, I heard the quote, and he was just like, yeah, my country's turning into Nazi America or something because because of these people trying to push gun control laws and and faking mass shootings to try and make them pass. This was reported at the time as Barack Obama is...
00:37:04
Speaker
is faking school shootings so as to bring about Nazi America. But I don't think Dave Mustaine was actually claiming that Obama wants to make Nazi America. He just said his country is starting to feel like that because of the oppression of his Democrat president. Now, do you the Aurora shootings, i had to look I had to look that one up again.
00:37:25
Speaker
ah do you remember which one was Aurora? No, because unfortunately there had been so many of those mass shooting events that what the big ones sent...
00:37:36
Speaker
Sandy Hook, which of course has had the longest tail because of the whole Alex Jones thing. Aurora is just one of the many mass shooting events you might list off when talking about them.
00:37:47
Speaker
But unfortunately, I have to say, I can't remember many details of that particular mass shooting. That was the Dark Knight Returns one. That was the one when it was shot at the movie theater. Yeah, which also meant a whole bunch of films cause people to be violent, be made by...
00:38:04
Speaker
politicians who grew up with ultraviolet Western films. Yeah. Yes, so that that was the shootings in movie theatre showing the Dark Knight Returns resulting in the deaths of 12 people or 13, depending on your feelings on the status of unborn fetuses.
00:38:20
Speaker
One of the victims was pregnant. 70 other people died. were injured, either either by bullets or in the crush that followed. He also said that the recent, so that was, I'm not sure if that was, so this episode of yours was August 2012. Dave Mustaine's remarks were August 2012. He had just made those remarks, which is why you were talking about them.
00:38:40
Speaker
Aurora, I think, was like July. It was not in that month, but quite soon before. And then the Sikh temple massacre, which you brought up, was the very start of all. So it had just happened. Dave Mustaine had just mentioned it, and then you had just talked about what Dave Mustaine talked about. The the the Sikh temple manic massacre was when it was in Wisconsin.
00:39:00
Speaker
a white supremacist shot up a Sikh temple, killing six people and wounding four before, I believe, being killed by the police. So, So yeah these are particular mass shootings that were were had just happened, were very much fresh in people's minds and in the news cycle. And so they were the ones that Dave Mustaine had latched onto as being with with with his false flag conspiracy theories.
00:39:26
Speaker
And so then this this turned into a discussion on celebrity endorsements of conspiracy theories. so why why would we listen to a guy ah who says these events were false flags just because he's the front man of a band?
00:39:43
Speaker
And yet we do. and of course, this brought in, who who's your favorite celebrity endorser of conspiracy theories? My favourite celebrity endorser of... Well, I mean, it's always the the front person for Muse.
00:39:58
Speaker
there is um there's There's one person who you've brought up a couple of times as someone who put forward conspiracy theories and was referred to as an eminent personage or something like that.
00:40:09
Speaker
martin um i have Martin Sheen? charliey she Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen, yes. It's mentioned in the PhD because there's that great line when someone with the gravitas or the Charlie Sheen speaks, you have to listen. guess of I don't know that you do, in part because I don't know that Charlie Sheen has gravitas. He was the highest paid sitcom actor in the world, and I believe it actually still is the highest paid sitcom actor in the world for his time on Two and a Half Men. But being a highly paid actor doesn't mean you need to listen to his political opinions.
00:40:51
Speaker
No, or indeed the political opinions of any celebrity. That was sort of the ah the idea that you were discussing, that simply people people may not have a firm opinion on an issue and they may not have a lot of knowledge on an issue because people just that people are off living their lives. They don't have time to look at at every issue that comes along. um But celebrities, they're there. They're in our faces. We see them. And so when a person who you know, even though you don't you don't know them the same way that, say, I know you, the way that that you know your friends or families or workmates, but a person you know starts saying the stuff people do rightly or wrongly, I would say wrongly, um attach weight to them.
00:41:31
Speaker
I mean, it's the whole terror of the parasocial relationship. Yes. an An interesting point, again, like like that interesting point you brought up about the Illuminati at the end of the previous episode, you brought up another interesting point here, which I don't think is, it was new to me. Maybe we've discussed it in the past, but if we have, I didn't remember it either.
00:41:50
Speaker
But you talked about mass shooting false flag conspiracies as being things that both extremists on the far right and the far left would buy into. Does that sound...
00:42:02
Speaker
Does that sound familiar to you, that line of argument? So I mean, on the far right, they assume it's a conspiracy theory by the state to get rid of gun control. And assuming, if I'm recalling what I thought correctly at the time, on the far left, these things are actually being either orchestrated or covered up by elements in the government.
00:42:25
Speaker
So you can have yeah one of two conspiracy theories. So they in they're engineering these events to cause fear or there are more of these events and go going on and there's a concerted activity to kind of downplay them.
00:42:41
Speaker
It was actually it was more um even more symmetrical than that. You talked about the idea that both the far right and the far left may put forward theories, conspiracy theories, that these mass shootings are false flags designed to bring about gun control, But on the far right, they believe that people want to bring about gun control simply for a matter of state control because they want to want control over allies. Whereas on the far left, they believe that governments wanted to bring in gun control because they want to restrict weapons to only the right people, namely being their money and interests.
00:43:19
Speaker
and keeping them out of the hands of the the disenfranchised and minorities and what have you. Yes, actually that does ring a bell because that actually was one of the arguments by the Black Panthers about gun control back in the...
00:43:35
Speaker
60s and 70s, their concern was that if gun control came in, the government would basically go, well, there's a certain class of person who probably shouldn't own guns. And coincidentally, that certain class of person appears to be non-white.
00:43:51
Speaker
Yes, isn't it wasn't it the case that Ronald Reagan, famous famous Republican president, did did bring in gun control measures himself, which, as I recall, were was a response to, quote-unquote, urban violence, where urban is the code word for for black. So yes yes, once the idea that the African-American community might be might be having access to guns, that's when the government, when a Republican government started. is willing to step in and and bring about some manner of gun control. So maybe maybe they do have something, maybe there is something to that.
00:44:28
Speaker
um And you it so so and and this this this discussion of the far left and the far right was sort of leading towards the idea that you know they met the the extremists may have their reasons for believing these sorts of conspiracy theories like these false flags, whereas moderates who don't really have a bob either the way, they might they they're the sort of people who might actually be swayed by celebrity endorsements of this kind, which is why they are perhaps more of an issue.
00:44:55
Speaker
a sound Sounds plausible. I was a very wise person back in those days.
Reflecting on Past Conspiracy Theories
00:45:01
Speaker
Well, you certainly were. And and you're not not entirely unwise now, given that you did actually manage to remember is a respectable amount of the things that I threw at you.
00:45:12
Speaker
So the thing which is kind of fascinating about this is twofold. One... kind of makes me recall how many conspiracy theory topics have occurred since the heydays of those 95 BFM episodes and now.
00:45:28
Speaker
And B, just the breadth of conspiracy theories that can be talked about. So it's kind of it is surprising how many of these things I recall, given that... Particularly in those days, I was kind of proactively searching for conspiracy theory topics to discuss on the radio on a weekly or fortnightly basis. I've kind of gone back from that particular attitude, in part because given how algorithmic our search engines have become now, if I was doing that proactively, I'd basically just be swamped with dire news stories all the time. And I do try to keep my work separate from my personal life, and that's harder to do without algorithms ruining things all the time.
Researching Conspiracies Without Algorithm Bias
00:46:20
Speaker
But it does make me think maybe I should go back to slightly more proactive looking up contemporary conspiracy theories because it occurs to me I haven't really done and we haven't really done a lot of contemporary wacky stuff like the Blue Ivy stuff and the like, and I'm sure that stuff is still out there.
00:46:39
Speaker
It seems to be found. Yes, we talk about current events usually in our in our bonus episodes, but but yeah, that's sort of overt conspiratorialism. Yeah, maybe we do need to look at some more of that.
00:46:52
Speaker
yeah Yeah, we need to find a way to search these things without destroying our search functions forever. But that's for another time. So that that is Also, my worry is a lot of this stuff is video content now, and nothing makes me not want to go into a topic. They go, oh, God, it's 45-minute YouTube video. Why can't there be a text article I can skim?
00:47:16
Speaker
Yes, no, that's true. ah But for now, where we we finished another episode of Does Em Remember? Tune in in about 18 months' time when we do another one, I guess.
00:47:26
Speaker
ah But for now... Sorry, there's a joke there to insert. No, when Josh remembers, we'll have another episode of Does M Remember? when i When I get around to it. But no, so that's the end of this episode. But as I say, we do do bonus episodes for our beloved patrons, and we're going do one of those right now.
00:47:45
Speaker
If you'd like to hear such a thing, then become our patron. Go to Betrayon.com and search for... Now, I always say, search for the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. When I've looked on Patreon, it's it's really like the the entry is Denteth and Josh Addison who are making the podcaster's guide to the to the to the conspiracy. So you might actually have more luck going on Patreon and searching for Denteth and Addison. But anyway, however you find it, it's there. It's on Patreon. You can sign yourself up. It's not as difficult as I just made it sound.
00:48:15
Speaker
Also, we've started doing stuff on YouTube. We have no subscribers, which is, well, we have eight subscribers, which is to be expected. We're just kind of chucking them up there because we can. But if you diff you want to see faces as well as voices, you can go you can search YouTube for the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy and you will find either... the channel that Em has set up with our modern episodes on it, or the old, old episodes we used to put up a very long time ago. update, we have 10 subscribers, which means we have 9 subscribers, because you are one of them. I am one of them, yes. I'd say comments-wise, we're not getting a lot of comments, but, I mean, and our last episode had two views.
00:48:57
Speaker
So, I mean, really, ah are we doing well? The David Ike episode has 317 views. That's interesting. we do We do get the occasional comments still on the Uncle Sam's one, the way the old, old one from way, way, way back, usually just sort of a two-word or
Promotion of MonkeyFluids Webcomics
00:49:16
Speaker
a a very short, these guys are idiots, this is dumb or something with no further no further comment, but it still shows people are watching, so that's nice. um And I guess the only other thing, I should once again plug the fact that I am, for a limited time only, back doing webcomics at monkeyfluids.com. And the most recent was a hilarious joke about pride and prejudice.
00:49:42
Speaker
It was about both. It involved both pride and prejudice. So that's kind of thing you like, or if it's not, I don't know, go go have a look anyway. It makes me feel good. um And we're done. I think we're done. Are we done? We are done. At least i and i remember being done.
00:49:57
Speaker
Yes. Unless I forget. Have I forgotten being done? Are we done? We are done. Well, we will be done by the time we finish this. So if it's possibly some sort of Tachyon dream like Out of Prince of Darkness where you've beamed the memory of being done back to yourself and now you remember it, if you see what I mean.
00:50:16
Speaker
I do see what you mean. Also, we did do a version of the intro for this podcast as the intro to Prince of Darkness back in the day. That was a long time ago, yes. There's always been a lot more artistry went into the intros to this podcast.
00:50:34
Speaker
That's true. ah But anyway, that's not that that that that's the past. This is the now. And now it's all over. Goodbye. Goodbye!
00:50:49
Speaker
The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy features Josh Addison and Associate Professor M.R. Extentis. Our producers are a mysterious cabal of conspirators known as Tom, Philip, and another who was so mysterious that they remain anonymous.
00:51:03
Speaker
You can contact us electronically via podcastconspiracy at gmail.com or join our Patreon and get access to our Discord server. Or don't, I'm not your mum.
00:51:31
Speaker
And remember, according to the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, a stranger is just a friend you haven't met.