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Pixelated Harmony - Tom Salta
9 Plays24 days ago
In this month's episode of Pixelated Harmony: The Voices Behind Video Game Music, it's spooky season and I wanted to sit down with someone that I knew was no stranger to bringing terrifying games to life with music. My guest this week is none other than Tom Salta, Artist, Composer and Producer for some little title you may have heard of like Halo, Killer Instinct, PUBG, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, one of my favorites Deathloop, and most recently, a game I don' think I have the courage to play, The Outlast Trials.
We talk about Tom's journey as an artist, Atlas Plug, the benefits of meditation and a little preview of what he has going on now!
Website: https://www.tomsalta.com/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@TomSalta
X: https://x.com/TomSalta
Pixelated Harmony YouTube: https://youtube.com/@Pixelated-Harmony
X: https://x.com/smitty2447
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Transcript
Introduction to Tom Salta's Career
00:00:08
Speaker
And welcome to Pixelated Harmony, the voices behind video game music. I am pumped to introduce our next guest. I had the pleasure of interviewing him actually on LAN parties a few years ago and I am super pumped to just catch up with him. Known for his work and things like the Flash Trials, Halo, and one of my favorite all-time games, Deathloop.
00:00:30
Speaker
Please welcome in Tom Salta, award-winning composer, songwriter, and producer. Tom, how have you been, my friend?
Transition to Video Game Music
00:00:39
Speaker
I've been great, Brian. Thanks for having me.
00:00:42
Speaker
Man, you like Deathloop, huh? ah Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Just little. That was such a fun, crazy, unique game. Yeah. Wow.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you. No, absolutely. Absolutely. and And again, I don't I don't you know, thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate you taking the time. I don't want to take too much time. So I just want to jump kind of right into it. And I know a lot of times and you probably hear it all the time. You know, oh, how did it how did you get into music? This and that. I kind of want to skip past that part and I want to jump right into getting into video game music.
00:01:17
Speaker
What did that story look like? Just kind of how did that happen? Was that something by design? Was that something that you worked towards or is it kind of a happy little accident?
00:01:28
Speaker
Oh man, it was very, very, a challenging transition that occurred, that's the seed planted in 2001 when music industry kind of started to tank.
00:01:44
Speaker
ah And then you have the high speed internet and people just downloading music and you know for free and LimeWire, Napster and stuff like this. So I had all good intentions to be you know a big famous record producer, man. you know My idols, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Quincy Jones, Mutt Lang,
00:02:02
Speaker
Trevor Horn, that's it. So I wanted, you know, i'm a songwriter, producer. And then that happened and I'm like, you know, wait a second, what happened to the chance of me making a living doing this? And I was marrying him.
00:02:16
Speaker
So I had to reinvent myself and it was, you know, they say when one door closes, another one opens. So around this, this panicked moment in my life ah you know I'm playing Halo in 2001 and I'm playing Rainbow Six. It's new Xbox. You got this Xbox Live thing. I was a beta tester for that, actually. I was playing Prince of Persia, Sands of Time, one of my favorites. and and ah One day, it literally, it was like, what?
00:02:43
Speaker
It was like an epiphany. The light you know the clouds opened. I'm like, wait, i love you know I've been a gamer since the 70s, right? And it's like, this this is it. This combines everything I love. it It combines video games. It combines music. And oh my God, oh my God, I have to do this. i have to do this. That was when the seed was planted. And then you know actually manifesting that, that took a little bit of time.
00:03:07
Speaker
for years That took a couple of years. But ah you know trying to keep the long story very short, I had a rude awakening, you know thinking that when I went to E3, all these video game companies would just be bending over backwards like, oh, Tom Salta, welcome into the video game industry. What you know what was I thinking? No one really cared about the records I worked on and what have you.
00:03:30
Speaker
But I did come home, besides my with my tail between my legs, I did come home with an observation, which was, you know what?
Rise as Atlas Plug and Industry Recognition
00:03:41
Speaker
I get the sense that these companies don't really think that you know composers are very cool, but they do kind of think that artists are cool. you know Because I was seeing all these artists, they like, ooh, Crystal Method and you know Chemical Brothers and Moby and all this stuff.
00:03:58
Speaker
So I'm like, wait a second. No one knows who I am anyway. why don't I just become an artist and do an album, Electronica, under some fictitious name and you know make this crazy cool album cover and whatever and become that artist.
00:04:14
Speaker
And so I decided to name myself Atlas Plug. and Atlas is all from backwards. Plug is the opposite of unplug, which is kind of like acoustic, so this was electronic music. So I did this whole entire album of music, because I knew how to produce and songwrite and everything else.
00:04:27
Speaker
And I signed with the publisher, and before I finished the record, Microsoft came by and decided they wanted to license four tracks from the album before we were done. And that name was Rally Sport Challenge 2.
00:04:45
Speaker
And that was the beginning that led to more licenses and crackdown and Project Gotham Racing. And then I got hired to do Need for Speed Underground 2, which was one of my first scoring gigs.
00:04:59
Speaker
um And then years later, I got an agent and then I got a chance to pitch on Ghost Recon, Advanced Warfighter. And then, you know, the snowball started kind of rolling down the hill. And 10 years later, I was working on Halo Master Chief Collection, you know, and and original Halo scores and stuff like that.
00:05:18
Speaker
And here I am now. So my gosh, it was crazy. sure I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah. I mean, well, and I feel like with so many other things too, not only does it take skill, but there's also a bit of luck that comes with a lot of things too.
00:05:33
Speaker
And like, how, how was it that they heard your music even before, you know, and all a sudden they're re they're reaching out and and approaching you saying, uh, excuse me, but we'd like to license a few of your songs.
00:05:46
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Okay, well, I have a very strong feeling about luck, which is luck is nothing more than when preparation meets an opportunity.
00:05:57
Speaker
So what happened was, is that the publisher that I signed the music with representing my like had connections in film trailers and video games. He was friends with the person at the time who was choosing what music to license in so in certain video games.
00:06:14
Speaker
So he was showing off his new catalog and the new hotness and my stuff happened to fall across the desk, so to speak. And he heard it and... That is, he's like, what is that?
00:06:27
Speaker
i want that. I want that in the game. And that's what happened. And then actually the same thing happened, that the game. This is a little historical trivia for you. The first, do you know the first commercial, car commercial that ever used 100% video game music, ah excuse me, 100% video game graphics to advertise a real car?
00:06:51
Speaker
VW?
00:06:55
Speaker
Volvo S40. So Volvo came by, they cut a deal with Microsoft to use Rally Sport Challenge graphics in their car commercial. And guess what song they heard?
00:07:07
Speaker
They heard Two Days or Die, which was the title track on the record. So they put it in their commercial. So all of a sudden I kind of hit the scene. i That was really lucky. um stuff was there, was ready to go and and the opportunity came by. And so that was, that gave me a nice big launch.
00:07:25
Speaker
But it didn't seal the deal as far as me getting the chance to score, you know, create original music. That was a whole nother thing. um But eventually, you know, enough persistence. That's why I named my company Persist Music.
00:07:39
Speaker
no It's like, I will not give up Yeah, it like whether, yeah, you may say, yeah, exactly. It's like, you may say no today, but I'm to try again tomorrow and I'm going to keep trying until you say yes.
00:07:52
Speaker
And I, you know, yeah. And I think that's so important too.
Creativity, Self-Care, and Meditation
00:07:56
Speaker
Not only... I guess just as life in general, but is that something that you also kind of take into crafting music?
00:08:05
Speaker
um Maybe you're working on a project or or something that, you know, you just kind of get stuck or, or you're just, you know, you're at a place and you're just like, I'm not feeling it.
00:08:16
Speaker
Like, what do you, what do you do? How do you kind of get out of that funk? Yeah. Well, you know, the creative process is a very, unique, um often it's ah it's a mental exercise. there's There's this discipline that you have to learn the art of controlling yourre your focus and and and learning to let go of your analytical brain and embrace the sense of play.
00:08:47
Speaker
Because true creativity just comes from when you are playing, when you're having fun. And as soon as you start feeling that stress, you know that adult aspect of it, the creativity just goes away.
00:09:00
Speaker
And think that's pretty much where writer's block is. You know what I mean? There's there's no shortage of creative inspiration. there's no short Creativity is happening every second. It's just a question of tapping into it, being in the right headspace.
00:09:15
Speaker
you know And so I'm human. So just like everybody else, if I'm not feeling it or whatever, it's usually because I'm just trying too hard, not having fun, tired.
00:09:26
Speaker
I need a break. and And really, I think the most effective thing is it just as simple as it is, step away. Change, you know go take a walk, go do something else, and then come back. You know, just pushing through, pushing through, pushing through, ah ah forcing it is not really the way it works. That's not to be said. I don't sit in a chair for eight hours straight.
00:09:47
Speaker
and But you know what I'm saying? The idea is, yeah, you have to keep working at it and you got to keep coming back and you got to keep coming back. But you have to also understand the the nature of the flow. I find that you can get a lot more done in less time.
00:10:04
Speaker
when you are fresh, when you are focused, when you're enthused, as opposed to just, you know, pulling the all-nighters and the all-nighters. Because, you know, doing what I do, I've done it, I've done this for decades, over three decades now. It's a marathon, it's not a sprint, you know? So it's, you have to come back every day with the same energy that you had the day before, or more.
00:10:24
Speaker
And you can't do that if you're sprinting, sprinting, sprinting. No, you're right. you have yeah there You have to pace yourself. You have to, you know, you're gonna there's going to be the ebb, the flows, you know, and and you just kind of have to be able to manage that. But, you know, so while still moving forward and not completely burning yourself out or neglecting any of the things that you need to do to be able to do what you're trying to do. Yeah, it's very much like an Olympic athlete. You know, there's a lot that goes on besides the performance of the, of the of the you know, of the,
00:10:54
Speaker
The athletics, I mean, there's the ah diet aspect, the sleeping aspect, the mental aspect. you know i've i've gotten I've gotten a lot of benefits a couple years ago. I got into meditation and that's been a huge help to me in ways I didn't really even expect. you know just um So there's a lot of self-care that, and I tell this to my mentees and I'm writing a book about this and everything, that you know it's actually your professional obligation to do self-care. It's not selfish.
00:11:25
Speaker
because you need to keep yourself in tip top shape. And I, you know, when someone hires me to do something, they want the best version of me. Right. Yeah. don't want like, the oh God, I i can't do this.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah. i mean No, they want, you know, so it's very important to keep that, you know, that, that maintenance going. And a lot of that is self-care.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah. And I kind of want to dive into because i've I've messed around a little bit with meditation. It's something that I'm looking to do more, especially as I get older. Not only that, but like the first thing I try to do or I'm trying to do is stretch first thing in the morning. Just get my body limber and moving. And, you know, that wakes up your mind and whatnot.
00:12:10
Speaker
What have you seen or obviously you have seen, but like what kind of benefits are you seeing? are there anything that I'm not saying that necessarily you would recommend, but what is working for you?
00:12:22
Speaker
I'll tell you exactly. 20 minutes a day of it's called centering prayer, but basically and another way of calling it is objectless awareness. So it's 20 minutes where you basically, there's nothing that you are focused on.
00:12:37
Speaker
It's basically you're observing your thoughts as they, you close your eyes, you have an intention in mind. I just want to be, you know, we we think, you know, we're so busy doing things, do, do, do. Yeah. But we're not human doings, right?
00:12:49
Speaker
We're human beings, right? And we forget that sometimes we just have to be, you know? yeah I love nature. I love just watching, you know, just... So anyway, it's really just a question of allowing all the thoughts you know come to come through, acknowledge them, but don't engage with them and let them go. you know Everyone's like, no, I can't meditate, man. I can't clear my mind.
00:13:08
Speaker
Of course not. No one can. it's not It's not about clear your mind. It's not this skill. Oh, you know they think some Zen Buddhist has this like of special ability to just have not a single thought. No, of course not.
00:13:21
Speaker
Don't think of a white elephant. Of course you're going to think of it. i mean to your thoughts the The question is, don't engage with it. don't Don't go into that inner dialogue and that conversation.
00:13:33
Speaker
Notice, oh yeah, I'm thinking about that phone call I have to make. Okay, just let that and then just return to the center. You know you might just envision, let's say, peaceful water. Anyway, it's it's that thing. It's constantly observing, letting it go, returning, re-centering.
00:13:48
Speaker
Boom, 20 minutes a day. What are the benefits? I'll tell you from personal experience. This isn't something I studied. This isn't something i read about. ah This is personal experience. So one, biologically, let's say, one, my memory has come back.
00:14:04
Speaker
Right. And that's amazing because, you know, as I'm getting older, you get, you get north of 40 and then you get north of 50. You're like, ah, yeah, my memory's shot. Well, that's because, that's because our brains are overstimulated. We have so much crap going on between these devices and every pain, you know, whatever your brain, it's, it's kind of like you're you're driving at 90 miles an hour and you never let the engine cool down.
00:14:29
Speaker
So what happens is when you do this meditation, your anger, your brain actually heals itself. It has a time. It's not the same as sleeping. Sleeping, your brain's really active. When you're when you're centering, it's not.
00:14:41
Speaker
It's not, you're letting this stuff go. So anyway, literally my memory has returned to the way it was in high school. And that has served me in more ways than i could have imagined because even with my music, right? I have tons, tons and tons of like sample libraries and software and this.
00:14:59
Speaker
And you know I would forget half of the things I have. Now I'm like, I'm remembering things, oh wait, from 20 years ago. that's right. I remember I had that, that CD or i sampled this thing, or I created this instrument or whatever. So it's really just kind of helping me like, you know, it's like leveled up my brain as far as recall, which is yeah great. it It allows me to tap into my creative center much more quickly.
00:15:22
Speaker
It has allowed me to kind of let go of that ego based, that egocentric way of creating, which is ah worried about what people think, worried about is it good enough, worried about if I am good enough to do it, you know, is it going to win an award? You know, like all that nonsense is is completely getting in the way of it it. It allows me to observe it, to realize what's happening, and let it go, let it go. let So I really can kind of just get rid of all the noise and all the extra red tape that's between my creative center, who you really are, basically.
00:15:56
Speaker
and Right. and create it like just helps clear the plate. um You know, and it's got all kinds of other benefits it helps you think more clearly it helps you, you know, maybe not it helps your mood to be more level, it helps you feel more refreshed, you don't feel that burnt, you feel more in control, I can go on and on and on. It's really great. I'm i'm actually adding that in the book as well.
00:16:19
Speaker
No, that's huge. And not only that, it's wild that you say that, because that's something that I've that i'm noticing, too, as I'm getting older, just I'll go upstairs and be like, I don't even remember why I came upstairs.
00:16:31
Speaker
And then I'll go back downstairs and then remember why I went upstairs and things like that. And it's just like, what is going on? So, you know, that that stuff is it's super important. Yeah, it absolutely is.
00:16:42
Speaker
Who knew? Yeah. yeah And and and you've if you've referenced a book as well. Can you talk a little more about the book? Yeah, absolutely.
Insights on Writing and Horror Game Music
00:16:52
Speaker
Absolutely. um I've been working on it for a little over a year now, and i hope to be wrapping up ah soon.
00:16:59
Speaker
ah It's going to be I haven't landed on the exact title yet, and I think this is the first time I'm publicly announcing it. But it is going to be a book about making a career as a creative person.
00:17:12
Speaker
specifically in video game music but a lot of the content beasts on the technical aspects is going to go into things that apply to not just composing or not just music but i mean could be for magicians it could be for it could be for any any especially any creative outlet and particularly for freelancers Because when you are a freelancer, you have to be self-motivated. you have to You're your own company. you you
00:17:44
Speaker
You're your own brand. so And no one's going to be telling you you have to do something. So it's like, how am I going to steer my own ship? And a huge part of that are are a lot of soft skills, which don't really often come up in school.
00:17:58
Speaker
you know that kind stuff whether it's you know how to manage your clients how to write a good email how to read a room how to network or meet people or you know all those little things so basically i'm treating this like i'm mentoring the people who are reading the book it's stuff that i would teach my own kids if they wanted to do what i do which thank god they don't and um you know so all kinds of uh all kinds of useful information i think it's kind of is it is all encompassing it's it's uh of the ecosystem, I think, of what is involved in
00:18:30
Speaker
doing this kind of thing and especially doing it on as a professional, uh, and, you know, creating under deadlines and, you know, keeping your sanity and, and you know, surfing the creative waves properly. So you don't waste time and even technical stuff. And, you know, I go into deep dives. I, there's a deep dive in death loop, uh, about, you know, from soup to nuts, how everything came together and it's great it there's a lot of good stuff i'm i'm like i'm writing it in a very non-linear way it's kind of like who this will be good in this section here and then i'll go back to the beginning and i you know what i mean so it's yeah it's it's a it's a nice thing so i look forward to uh getting that finished and uh hopefully maybe we could talk about it when it uh when it finally comes out yeah that would be that would be absolutely awesome um but obviously
00:19:25
Speaker
While you're here, let's talk about some video games. I've got to start out with yeah The Outlast Trials. Okay, I got to tell you, I'm i'm i'm an absolute weenie. I don't know that I can play The Outlast Trials.
00:19:39
Speaker
I've watched people play it. I know the music. I know the... but Please tell me how, I mean, and and especially too, it it seems like you had some fun when you were creating the music and the atmosphere with it. it it For me or anyway, or somebody that's familiar with some of your work, i feel like it's it's there's some difference in and and a lot of variety ah within that genre ah that you got to play around with. yeah Man, I got to tell you, you know this is one of those things where
00:20:15
Speaker
And I'm so grateful for this. you know Those times in your life in your career where you're like, you wake up and you pinch yourself. You're like, okay, I'm getting paid to do this. This is so much fun.
00:20:27
Speaker
Most people don't know, those in the professional circles don't know that i am i am a huge Halloween haunted house-like obsessed person.
00:20:42
Speaker
I'm the guy who, when I was a teenager, ah would be ah making haunted houses at Halloween, like walk through haunted houses. And we'd have these big parties and I'd have smoke and lights and music and actors and I'd build mazes and I'd do the sound effects. And, you know, it was it was nuts. And it went on for years and years. So I love, and then I'd go in, I'd be one of the,
00:21:08
Speaker
people in the haunted house or you know' like jumping down. It was great. So I just love creating ah atmospheres and and and scaring the bejesus out of people. It's so much fun.
00:21:21
Speaker
I think I would get a huge kick of watching you because I think that's one of the most fun aspects of the Outlast Trials. It's one of those things that it's almost more fun to watch other people playing it, especially like if you go on Twitch or YouTube and you see, you know, the screen in the bottom, the streamer, and they're like, um my God. You know, and they're screaming, and it's like, I love that.
00:21:43
Speaker
And what's even better is I remember when it first came out, ah there was this big, you know worldwide launch and everything. And I was jumping around like a little kid going between all these Twitch channels and, like, all people around the world, languages that i've you know i know don't understand, but they all understand the language of horror, man. Absolutely. And it is so great to just see people.
00:22:06
Speaker
It's just tons of people the same way. You know, it's it's such a terrifying thing. Yeah. I had a lot of fun. And the thing is with a game like this, you can't, you don't take it seriously. This is, this is an adrenaline rush, man. It's, it's a mind game.
00:22:21
Speaker
It's, it's, um, yeah And and you know you have fun with it. I mean, I know the the most kind, ah gentle people like, oh, I love that game. You know, and it's just kind of like an outlet. It's a healthy adrenaline rush, which by the way, is actually a biologic. It's very good for you.
00:22:38
Speaker
Um, so it's kind of taking a cold shower. So, uh, yeah, I love it. I mean, everything from all the little diegetic music, like ah all the little cutesy songs that are, you old fashioned music on the radios or the lobby, or even in the, the root canal, that little, um,
00:22:55
Speaker
Mother, mother, gooseberry, she's our friend. You know, like I was singing at my wife. I got my wife in here. We did the chipmunk voice. And, you know, I'm like, I just love the opportunity to just put all this juxtaposition. I think that's what's really cool.
00:23:11
Speaker
You know, one of the first great games that really embrace this in in a similar way. Remember Bioshock back in the day? Yes, simon absolutely. It's so great. I love games. And Fallout did the same thing where it's like you you have this old-fashioned music which is complete, you know, ah opposite of the mood of what the game is and what the what the score is.
00:23:35
Speaker
And it just becomes so much more effective. So when you put this ultra-happy, almost too-happy, creepy thing with, you know, the super scary stuff, it's just, oh, it's great.
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah, that definitely an uncanny feeling. Before, have you played any of the other Outlasts before working on this? Were you like familiar with like any of the story or any of the lore stuff?
00:23:59
Speaker
No, no. I played, I think, a good 20 minutes of Outlast coincidentally years before, and I didn't get out of the basement. All i remember was that, like, I was hiding in the locker, and I just didn't want to come out. but This guy was walking around like, what am I supposed to do?
00:24:15
Speaker
My batteries are dead. I don't know what to do Why would anyone play this? You know? Yeah. But the thing about the Outlast Trials is like, this is, i mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but man, I can't really think of any other multiplayer horror game that has pulled it off like this.
00:24:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The fact that you can play not only solo, but you can play with up to three other people at the same time.
Dynamic Music Technology in Gaming
00:24:43
Speaker
It's a dream come true because that's what you want. You want to have, you know, that person who's super scared that kind of comes in. all you hear, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. its I mean, it's great. You're laughing your head off, you know. It's it's like, so um being able to play with other people in real time.
00:24:59
Speaker
And i I will tell you, not to get too geeky, but man, they pulled off some technological stuff. sorcery when it came to synchronized music over the servers.
00:25:09
Speaker
because you know if you have Because if you watch split screen, like people at the same time, which we've done through other captures and stuff, the music is is exactly synced, but you're going to hear a different perspective based on your situation.
00:25:24
Speaker
So if you're being chased... Right. And you're going to hear certain kind of chase music, which which supports the idea that, you know, the person's right on your back, breathing down your neck and oh, my God, and crazy cacophony of of of madness.
00:25:38
Speaker
But then, you know, if your friend is observing you and he's within, let's say, 10 meters or whatever, he's going to hear or she's going to hear a different version. It's going to be a bit more thinned out, which is showing that someone is getting chased, but it's not you.
00:25:51
Speaker
you know and And so there's all this real time dynamic mixing going on, but it's all synchronized. It's pretty amazing. It's like you're watching, it's like watching the same movie, but getting the score delivered in different ways.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah. So like, is that something like, do you know, like how they are able to accomplish that? And like, could I know too, and and and especially, ah you know, now music in video games is is becoming more of a mechanic and and complementary to actions and things that are happening or changing and and being dynamic based off of what the character is doing.
00:26:29
Speaker
that is there is a ton of technology that goes into the back end to be able to achieve something like that oh boy okay well i'll give you the the the layman's explanation about this i mean i'm not a coder but i know how how it works basically the idea is this there Think of the the the the game engine as the director, right? And think about the the middleware, which is really the, think about that as like the DJ in the game was listening to the director.
00:27:02
Speaker
So the director is going to say, OK, this player is here. This is happening. This this enemy is within this distance or this many rooms or whatever. And then, okay so what do you got for me?
00:27:13
Speaker
So, you know, the audio director will will program all the implementation and I will deliver music in and what I'll call, let's say, musical blocks. that can be connected horizontally vertically all different kinds of ways as some are synchronized some are not synchronized it's all designed to support the needs of the gameplay so that and everything from the that we call it the um all the the let's say the tension music they call it the proximity stuff you know let's say if you're hiding under the bed
00:27:44
Speaker
You know, and you'll hear like this, if if the enemy is within a certain distance and let's say door open, door close, all these little parameters, which you wouldn't even imagine, the awareness of the NPC, the music, there's like five different layers of the music that will actually be...
00:28:03
Speaker
real time control like a like a dj movie oh yeah and so you know the heartbeat will start soft but it'll get louder but it'll also speed up then you have this first low music then you have this music a little bit higher you ever play dead space Yeah, ah I have no, no, not Dead Space. No. Okay.
00:28:22
Speaker
Jason Gray's and one of the most terrifying scores, very aleatorious. Oh my God. It's so that had some similar dynamics ah in in it as well. Okay. With this idea of this multi-layer dynamic music that can be controlled depending on the situation and the parameters that they program.
00:28:41
Speaker
And it's it's that's really a ah coordinated effort between the audio director who designs and programs, sets up the rules, and the composer who has to create that the the music that accomplishes what the director needs.
00:28:58
Speaker
So you guys are, I mean, So do you guys work pretty closely then when you're when you're crafting that or essentially trying to lay that out and and get that, ah ah you know, to to be a mechanic, to be within the system. You guys are basically working hand to hand when crafting that.
00:29:16
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, he'll do his best to explain. you know Now I know you know, more or less, it's its a lot it doesn't have to start from the beginning, but um you know there'll be this explanation of what's going on, what the dynamic is. I'll...
00:29:32
Speaker
He'll inform me about what the environment looks like. Sometimes I'll get screenshots. Sometimes I'll get video capture. He'll tell me how much music, what's the length of it, where how does it loop, where does it loop, how many layers, what's the gameplay.
00:29:47
Speaker
And then we discuss... probably what's the best way to approach it then i'll do you know as i'm creating it i'll give him some rough drafts he could check it out might have some comments and then at some point they'll put it into the game test it out play test it and then there's usually some final feedback sometimes and sometimes it's right on and sometimes it's not you know and so it's just a lot of this back and forth it's a collaborative team effort i Yeah, I love that. And is that does that happen? a lot I mean, I imagine that happens depending on the game.
00:30:17
Speaker
Sometimes you're getting just like descriptions. Other times, ah you know, you're getting screenshots. Do you ever get a chance to like actually like hop in and like play while you're scoring?
00:30:30
Speaker
Oh, my God. ah Would that well that physically be possible first off? Well, yeah. i Very rarely. i think what's interesting and cool about the Outlast Trials in particular is that there's constantly new gameplay coming out. There's new DLC and there's new music.
00:30:50
Speaker
And yes, I have played the game. I've completed the challenges I got through. You know, i've I've gotten free. I played the the Project Amelia.
00:31:00
Speaker
You know, they had a two-week thing where you can literally get out of the trial. and You don't get like, you know, and that was awesome. um So I've played it before. So I know what it feels like to play it.
00:31:11
Speaker
you know and And I'm always trying to say, okay, wow, that was effective. Or how could this be more effective? So now that I come back, I'm so familiar with it. you know i It's easier for me to create stuff that I know that I will enjoy. i know the the players will enjoy because...
00:31:33
Speaker
We've done this already. You know, at the beginning, it was a little more difficult than that. But I've done everything from, you know, Prince of Persia, the sand ah the Forgotten Sands was one I had a chance to to see the game and give a chance to play it without any music in it.
00:31:46
Speaker
um But I've also had the opposite. I remember when I did Hawks, the original Tom Clancy's Hawks, that was a spreadsheet. I got an Excel spreadsheet. that's it
00:31:58
Speaker
it was crazy birds on i mean yeah fortunately i had just come off of doing ghost recon advanced war fighter and i knew that this game was basically the air campaign to support the air support of that game so it wasn't like i had to start a brand new style but it did have to change the tone so it felt like you're in the you're in the air and i had to do my own little research and and play testing by finding other video games that had, let's say, constant engine noise. Because that's all it was. I mean, it's basically you're looking at the back of a jet and you're just hearing, you know, the whole score is played over that.
00:32:36
Speaker
So... Yeah, you just gotta get creative. And that's why, you know, being a gamer and being such a game enthusiast and and a lover a lifetime lover of games. I mean, I collect the dark things. I see I have arcade machine back there, but um it helps. It helps because I love the art. this is not This is not a paycheck for me. This is a labor of love.
00:32:56
Speaker
And I'd be doing this if I wasn't getting paid. And I have. ah but So I understand the art. I understand the what it is. I'm a gamer myself, so.
00:33:07
Speaker
this To me, this is just how I participate in in the art and craft of something I love to do. I love, yeah. No, I absolutely love
Emotional Impact of Game Music
00:33:17
Speaker
that. And and like you said, I mean, you some of the the just absolute iconic games that you work on.
00:33:23
Speaker
So many multiple Tom Clancy ah titles that you've worked on. um um' I'm sitting here. Why am I why am i sitting here spacing?
00:33:34
Speaker
Wolfenstein. Wolfenstein Youngblood was another one I wanted to say. That one, something... um My goodness. That, let me just say, Tom, how do you get it to make me feel like I want to lift over deaths and punch things and what um when I'm listening to it, it gets me pumped.
00:33:54
Speaker
Wow. Thank you. Okay. So it's, it's very simple. It's very simple. The music is a language.
00:34:05
Speaker
And it's just like any other language, right? So you the more you speak a language, the more you get fluent in it. And the more you know how to put a certain accent on or a certain nuance in the words.
00:34:18
Speaker
So for me, yeah the ah music is what emotion sounds like, right? So if you say, I wanna feel pumped or I wanna feel tense, I wanna feel, you know,
00:34:33
Speaker
ah elated or I want to feel like a Pyrrhic victory, you know, or I want to feel like all this complex emotion. For me, it's the language that I speak so I can, I know how to, you know, just weave certain sounds and melodic things and chords just to create that emotion. It's it's just a feeling thing, honestly.
00:34:54
Speaker
there's it's For me, it's not like a book thing. It's not something that you that you have to analyze. It's something you feel. It's like I just... you know close your eyes and and let's let's do it.
00:35:05
Speaker
what do you want to feel? Come on. And that's it. i yeah I know it sounds overly simple, but in a way it is. But it takes a lifetime to, I guess, get fluent like that.
00:35:16
Speaker
too Yeah, and i yeah I think that's a great way of explaining it, though. Because that that really is how I truly... I mean, obviously, you know we we we take in music with our ears.
00:35:28
Speaker
But for me, music is more of a feeling Then, ah you know, ah not not more so, but it's a part of it. It's just as important to me, the feeling of it and and how it makes me feel and and the sound of it.
00:35:44
Speaker
ah Of course it does. I mean, think about this. And you you know this for a fact. I give you so many examples, but just imagine, close your eyes and imagine you're looking at a a hallway, like a Matrix thing where it's white hallway.
00:35:55
Speaker
right now think think imagine like the outlast trials music like some 10 stuff to that okay now erase that dry erase that all right now you're looking at the hallway and now um imagine you're hearing some like really peaceful spa-like music and just calm and pianos and beautiful it changes the whole changes the whole thing.
00:36:20
Speaker
Everything. Everything's different. Everything's different. you know And I've seen, you you you know you can go on YouTube and you could type Star Wars with no music or Star Wars with you know the wrong music. and And it becomes very comical. I mean, it's a amazing. know Music really informs the emotion, I will argue, more than the visuals.
00:36:41
Speaker
it It can completely turn ah something that is serious into something funny or vice versa or anything in between. It really can. Music tells you how to feel. You're right. No, you're 100%. I mean, like even even that experiment, and hope those that are listening, those that are watching, I hope you played along. I hope you tried it as well because it literally is completely different. And you can take that example and and put that with so many different things where it's just like, and when we talked about that a little earlier with the Outlast Trials and just the juxtaposition of these creepy things with this very whimsical, playful music.
00:37:18
Speaker
That makes it even creepier. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's amazing. It's not just that one piece of music, but it's how they react together. Another way of thinking about music is really it's it's ah like cooking.
00:37:31
Speaker
Yes. It's like cooking because, you know, if you take one dish, you know, you can focus on making this one dish and that's great. and there's certain ingredients and you put a little this and little salt and this spice and blah, blah, blah. It's like cooking, you know, so that's one thing. But then it's like, wait, what happens when I combine this with that?
00:37:48
Speaker
Oh, wait, that's a whole different experience now. You know, it's it's interesting. it's I think it's ah something that can take a lifetime or many lifetimes to just explore to one's personal satisfaction. It's it's an endless...
00:38:03
Speaker
journey i just love it i just love it and i just i just love the pack for me it's like a way of being able to communicate with anyone around the world and and and it happens i get notes from people like gosh pakistan china australia you guys like people i've from places i've never even heard of i'm like right and they're telling me how much it means to them and it's like it'd be the simplest little most obscure thing you know so music really touches people and you never know how or why or you know So it's wonderful. It's just a privilege. And I'm so glad that I found that and discovered that calling and I get to do it.
00:38:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, and I think that's why conversations like these are so important too, just to be able to, because people do have strong emotional ties to music and and in in so many different mediums and whatnot, but especially for gamers.
00:38:55
Speaker
I mean, I can think of music from when I was a kid that still resonates in my head, you know? And just like- Absolutely, it'll bring you right back too. Yeah, and over beeps and moops. Remember back to where you were you know? Yes.
00:39:07
Speaker
yeah so it's it's Yeah, it really is. It's it's so just powerful. Yes, and and it's it be very therapeutic. I mean, I'm sure you've seen these things where, you know, let's say someone's completely senile. They've they've done things where, like, let's say someone would not talk for a year, and and they'll play music from when they were a child, and all of a sudden you see them light up.
00:39:27
Speaker
yeah Because it touches parts in your brain that cannot, that dialogue can't, that speaking can't. So it's it's a magical thing. And it's invisible. It's just a bunch of vibrations. It's unbelievable. i mean, when you think about it, but I digress.
00:39:43
Speaker
yeah I love it. I do want us to switch gears ah real quickly. Cause I, I, I have to, I know that we've had the conversation about Deathloop before, but I have to talk about it because seriously, it is,
00:39:56
Speaker
Still, to this day, one of my all-time favorite games, not only the gameplay, but the music in it is fantastic. ah You know, talk about that experience, especially something, and and we kind of talked about this a little bit too, with like, say, like a Fallout and things like this, where you're almost in this...
00:40:16
Speaker
time period, ah but not quite, you know, there. And, and not only is it the, the, the lingo, the style, the design, but of course the music and the music really is what kind of brings you in, but it's not like just, please, please talk about it a little bit.
00:40:37
Speaker
What was the process? How did you get there? Why do I love it so much? Okay.
Creative Processes in Deathloop and Future Projects
00:40:44
Speaker
Yeah. yeah I think you're talking about Deathloop. Is that right? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. that wasnt the game I'm not sure you heard that, but okay. So Deathloop. Okay, cool.
00:40:54
Speaker
Yeah, so Deathloop was, that man, there's so much to talk about with this game. It's unbelievable. I'm such a fan and and and admire so much of what they did with it. Because I will tell you, I'll be honest, I'm not i'm not shy about saying this. When I first heard, you know, they they they approached me. I had worked with them before. It was the same team that actually did Wolfenstein Cyberpilot at the time. I think that was the first time I worked with Arcanion. And so when he told me that they're working on this game then and, you know, took place in the late 60s,
00:41:23
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, no.
00:41:27
Speaker
You know, I'm thinking Austin Powers, like, yeah, baby, yeah! You know, and you know Flower Child and hallucinogenic. um You know, I don't really equate late 60s music with, let's say, Combat.
00:41:40
Speaker
You know, it's not really known for it's like, yeah! You know, and, you know, so immediately I was like, oh, no, oh, no, oh, no. You know, what do I do?
00:41:51
Speaker
So that that was a and and a challenge. And I know I'm going to forget to say this. I'm going to mention this right now. Actually, if if you go to my website, TomSalta.com at the top,
00:42:05
Speaker
There's a masterclass tab. If you click on that, one of the masterclasses that I offer is a deep dive into Deathloop. And just the trailer will show you all the different like you know facets of what's going on in there. So anyway, just for anyone who's really an enthusiast, just curious to even look at that.
00:42:24
Speaker
um So really the thing with Deathloop was this. It had such a unique identity. that Not only the plot, the premise, that was amazing. i love that kind of You know, it it almost reminded me a little bit of Loki, you know, in the sense of this.
00:42:45
Speaker
You got super technology, but you you combine it into this old 1950s kind of looking. Right. Fallout did it.
00:42:56
Speaker
Right. Alternate universe 50s. You know, wait, robots and 50. No, that didn't happen. You know, alternate universe. And there's plenty of games like that. um So one, I love that. I love the sci-fi, but it's like lost in the past. And it's so artistic.
00:43:11
Speaker
The artwork, the concept art, even though saw it's gorgeous, gorgeous. And, you know, so it was ah it was a bit of an interesting start because the first thing that I did was a theme, a main theme.
00:43:28
Speaker
But most people don't realize it's not it's not the theme. No one actually heard it. because i did this theme. It was very mysterious. They described to me like the one sound like this lost island and, you know, very mysterious and, and, and the music should be very interesting. And I made this very interesting thing and and they, they loved it.
00:43:51
Speaker
Then they approved it. And, and then I started, you know, two months into the game and I started seeing some of the captures and started hearing some of the dialogue and the banter between, between Colt and, and,
00:44:02
Speaker
ah It was hilarious. I'm like, wait a second. This doesn't match the personality of the of the game. The game is much more bigger than life. It's very exaggerated. doesn't take itself seriously. its it's It's catchy. It's just, ah.
00:44:19
Speaker
So without telling anybody, I went dark for a week. And yeah. And I started working on this other theme and I wanted to do something like a James Bond meets Inception meets, I don't know, just something and and something that had a very recognizable motif, something that looped, that repeated, but in a way that you just want to keep hearing it and keep hearing it and keep hearing it. So was like, you know, that's where I came up with the chords.
00:44:47
Speaker
no dan andrew didn in And that's it. that Those notes, that's the whole theme because it's the same as the first part. Anyway, not to get too deep into it, but it's so simple.
00:45:02
Speaker
And then I just created a a musical recipe out of all 1960s instruments and effects. Even if I use technology,
00:45:14
Speaker
it was meant to imitate and only stick to things that were available between 68 and 71. So I didn't use any reverbs past that.
00:45:25
Speaker
I didn't use any instruments past that. you know, um, and, but I did it with a modern sensibility. So it's kind of like, I didn't want it to sound like it was some lost tape from the sixties, but I did want it sound like it was some room that was uncovered with dust and you open it and you take it out, but you use them in a modern way.
00:45:47
Speaker
And that's kind of like a quick way of describing how I approached the, the music, you know, and, um, You know, it came out great. It's so much fun.
00:45:59
Speaker
It is. i mean, even, even, it's crazy because like even going to like the YouTube comments, I remember somebody saying that ah there is, I can't remember the exact title of the song, ah but it's one that has words.
00:46:13
Speaker
They say, this is the only game I've ever listened to a song from the game outside of the game. It is in my regular rotation. Yeah. That's awesome.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah, and you know what? Here's another interesting thing a lot of people don't don't realize. I did the score, but I think probably half half of the music in the game was all the diegetic music, was all the songs and stuff.
00:46:37
Speaker
I didn't even do those. They had three other people doing that kind of stuff. And they purposely separated us, like in a way where they wouldn't, they didn't want us to get influenced by each other.
00:46:49
Speaker
right They wanted this separation to have the score so that that music felt like it wasn't score-like. They wanted to just feel like legitimate. Like it was that from there. And my job was to create that emotional connection to the game.
00:47:06
Speaker
Whereas that the diegetic music was all the the lyrics and the songs and the thing the band is playing or or the guy up on the you know on the cliff. winter pramp wow po and you know Anyway, it it was really, really, really cool.
00:47:20
Speaker
And you know they really value music. Arcane really values music. And that audio director, Michel, he's brilliant. he's brilliant he's a music lover he really puts a lot of effort he understands his importance and he really supports the the creators yeah and i that completely comes through you can tell that just the labor of love from it and and just the way that you're like you know how you explained it it's like yes that is literally what you know what i mean like how you've explained it is what like i thought i
00:47:54
Speaker
that that I feel validated, you know, because I did feel like it's like it's kind of like a like almost that kind of James Bondy feel. But like there's something but like there's still this modern, like a modernness to it in that mystery to it. But it very much feels like it fits in this weird kind of off time period.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yes, it's yes. It's like an alternate universe, but like ah something, an offshoot. Definitely inspired by that established, you know, genre and and stereotype. It's, it's ah yeah, it's really interesting. they they I love it. I love the game. I love the characters. It was just something that's a work of art.
00:48:36
Speaker
No, it really is. It really is. And and again, that that just making me want to go back and do another playthrough because it's been a little bit for me. That took me a while. You know, got but there's so many different ways that you can do things. You know what I mean? yeah you could is Again, literally, you could just keep playing the game over and over again.
00:48:55
Speaker
um So just to me, everything about it um is just is brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant what you guys did, what you guys were able to accomplish and to collaborate and come together. um It's an absolute...
00:49:09
Speaker
you know, work of art on so many different levels. um Again, that's why I had to say something about it because it it it's still, you know, four years later is still fresh in my mind. And I think about it. And anytime somebody asks one of your favorite games, oh, Deathloop, dude, easy, oh easy.
00:49:28
Speaker
Wow. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yes. No. So, so thank you. And, and not only you, but like you're saying that the team and everybody that worked on that, it really is a a special game on, on so many different levels.
00:49:42
Speaker
um yeah You know, again, Tom, I don't want to take too much of your time. um Can you let people know what you're kind of working on now? I know we talked a little bit about the book. You're still cracking and and and working on that. What else do have going on in the pipeline?
00:49:58
Speaker
Okay, I wish you man, you know this industry so darn secretive. yeah Let me see. Okay, well I'll start with the the obvious stuff is that Outlast isn't going away anytime soon. um And so I know that there's gonna be more coming down the pike. I'm actually working on the soundtrack for the new volume four, which is gonna include everything from I think when Franco shows up to now and there's a lot of music in there. We've just been so busy at and I haven't had time.
00:50:25
Speaker
ah So I'm putting that together. um there are I created some new music. I've been working on another thing most people don't know is ah Just Dance. um i've I've been creating songs for Just Dance since Just Dance 2.
00:50:41
Speaker
ah And I've done everything from originals to also recreations of songs that everyone knows, ah thinking it was the original, but no. um So there's always stuff like that. There's some new stuff and the new version coming out.
00:50:56
Speaker
And there's this really amazing project I wish I could talk about. um
00:51:02
Speaker
You know, here's the thing. The game actually has been announced. What hasn't been den announced is my involvement. So in order to not violate any NDAs, I might encourage maybe someone to, you know, look at the games that have been announced. Look at companies I've worked with.
00:51:22
Speaker
and i don't know there might be a connection somewhere along the line maybe or not that's fair you know you never know yeah but there's something that I'm already a year into and yeah it's gonna take a ah little bit more but man it's gonna be fun yes I cannot wait yeah no stop stop yeah no stop that
00:51:53
Speaker
Tom, again, thank you so much just for for taking the time. Jimmerjabbing with me again. It was so good seeing you. Let people know where can they find your music? Where can they find you on the socials? All that good stuff, brother.
00:52:05
Speaker
Great. but so So right here, see Tom Salta. Boop. Let's see that. oh Look at that. Yeah, so if you just type that into Spotify, you're going to see a lot, a lot of stuff.
00:52:16
Speaker
Atlas Plug is my artist name too. So Salta backwards. That's easy. um And then my website, TomSalta.com. I think that is probably, that'll cover a lot of stuff, I think. Perfect.
00:52:28
Speaker
No, that is awesome. Again, ah thank you so much for coming on the show. And thank you guys so much for joining us. Again, you can find Pixelated Harmony on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast. Just look up Pixelated Harmony. Of course, you can find me on the socials. I'm basically smitty2447 everywhere on all the socials. So just look me up.
00:52:52
Speaker
Again, thank you guys so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and we'll see you guys next month.