Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Outdoorsy Educator Podcast, where stories become lessons and every journey has something to teach us. Every week I sit down with people from all walks of life to hear their adventures, explore their experiences, and uncover the insights that have shaped them along the way.
Speaker: Whether it's from the outdoors, the classroom, or any other path, each conversation offers a fresh perspective on learning, growth, and what it means to truly connect with the world and the people around us.
Speaker: And on this week's episode of the Outdoorsy Educator podcast, we have Kath Pender. Kath, how are you today? I'm good, thank you. Yourself? Just wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to be here with me today. It's very, very kind of you.
Speaker: Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Of course. Why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and who you are? am So I'm Cath. I'm chatting to you from sunny Glasgow at the moment, sunny Govan. And I, yeah, juggle a few things. I'm an artist. and I paint outdoors landscapes mainly. um That's changed over the years though. And I run workshops, and a lot of them outdoor nature-based stuff as well with a bit of a well-being mental health slant. And I also um and do outdoor youth work, which is quite rooted in community work with older teenagers. So it sounds like quite an array of things, but they are linked by the outdoors. hmm. I was going to, I'm definitely going to ask you about the link between all of these things, because I think that's super important. I'd love to hear more about these nature and outdoor workshops, especially as they lean on mental health in the youth, because that is something that I think we could all agree on is critically important.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, um yeah, so the the workshops, basically it's been combining a few strands of a few strands of work. So for a few years I was working for a fantastic um mental health charity called Commonweal, running their climbing programme, which is using climbing as a tool for wellbeing and, yeah, and just as a ah tool for...
Speaker: well-being, health and just feeling better for people living with mental illness. and At the same time I was running um art at workshops, so usually based out in nature, it can be quite challenging in the Scottish weather.
Speaker: And over time, they evolved to come together. So I, for again, for Commonwealth, also for a couple of other charities, I'll do outdoor-based workshops in a lot to do with slowing down and sometimes doing outdoor crafts ah using natural materials and a lot of spending the time really looking observing and just spending the time in nature as we tend to
Speaker: sort of crash through at great speed quite often. so Absolutely. And obviously this podcast, the Outdoorsy Educator podcast, I've seen the value in just spending time outside and trying to slow down a little bit. Something I've found in my experience is the outdoors itself is wonderful, but it's a tool and a catalyst for building relationships with people. And so how has being outdoors and taking the youth into into nature really been able to allow you to connect with them?
Speaker: am I think... I think it's the, oh so so many different ways, that hence hence the pause here. m So it seems to change the dynamic completely. So with the youth work that I do, we'll first, the the and so it's teenagers, 16, 17 year olds, and they apply for the project that we do. So the first meetings I have with them will be after reading an application and meeting them briefly at a meeting, either in their school or a Costa coffee. They're always really awkward meetings. Nobody knows anyone. yeah I'm this random grown up.
Speaker: As soon as we go out, so we take them for a week long outdoor residential. As soon as you're out and you're in nature, You can have conversations, you can connect with people and build rapport with your group in ways that are completely different to sitting around a table doing face-to-face chat. and Conversations about difficult topics can come up really organically as you're walking or
Speaker: people overcoming challenges through activities and I think that goes for adults as well so I've i've done a lot of sort of outdoor and workshops with adults as well and again it's doing activities in the outdoor setting that gives people the space and time i think to speak about stuff that would feel quite forced or formal in an indoor setting if that makes sense Oh, it makes perfect sense. I've talked about this with other guests, so listeners may be familiar, but I've had the great pleasure to interview a couple of therapists and they have started taking clients on walks instead of sitting in an office or at least giving the option. We can go for a one mile walk instead of sitting in the office for 45 minutes. And it's become incredibly popular.
Speaker: This is what people are wanting. They find it easier to open up. She, as a therapist, one of them in particular, uses nature as a metaphor. And it's easy when you're in it to use it as that metaphor to encourage people to to talk and understand what they're going through.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. And even just in terms of regulating your nervous system and, um yeah, that that that understanding. So, yeah, i can absolutely imagine for therapists, it's a a huge, huge tool. So, yeah. Yeah. Huge tool and one that thankfully is being embraced by people who may not be getting outdoors otherwise, which I think is yes just yeah just a wonderful thing.
Speaker: Speaking of being outdoors, I know a very small fraction of this story. You used to live in New Zealand and I'd love to hear about what took you there because I did a quick, you know, quick deep deep dive on your website and it sounds like an incredible experience.
Speaker: Yeah, it absolutely was. i um i went on a bit of a whim. Right. and So I went, when was it? Gosh, it was a lot longer ago than I think. i'm um I might be a bit older than I think I am. Right. Aren't we all? Yes. Yeah. and i Do you know, I was working in Glasgow. I was working in kitchens. I was seeing very little daylight and I fancied a change. And...
Speaker: I didn't really know much about New Zealand, but by coincidence, um a couple of friends had mentioned it. And I thought, well, this sounds great. and i'm And I went over. I thought it's a long distance to go for just a holiday. Takes a while to save up the cash. And so I checked out working holiday, realized I could just sneak in in the very last year of being 30. And I'm working on a visa.
Speaker: And went there and landed on my feet, basically. the end I had done a little bit of chefing work on the Crinnan Canal here in Scotland and on a puffer boat, the Vic 32, and the Stoker was from New Zealand. and he gave me a pointer of what company to go to for work so i pitched up in new zealand with a little scrap of paper with someone's name on it um turned up at a boat and said any jobs and they said no we don't but would you like uh would you like to stow away in this boat for a for an afternoon you know an afternoon trip and give you some names of people to contact and uh yeah and i found myself working in Fjordland National Park on an overnight boat. So visitors would come overnight and go kayaking and I was the i was the chef on board, so i would cook for 70 people every night, and I absolutely loved it. It does sound, I mean, hard work, long hours, chefing is a a difficult, difficult profession, but it sounds like a wonderful experience. Yes, it was it was incredible, and I ended up staying, instead of one year, ended up staying just over seven years, right um i um have my residency now so the door is open um for being able to go back and forth and yeah so yeah so my new zealand chapter is not necessarily over and i've Got a lot of absolutely fantastic people there who, yeah, who mean a lot to me. so
Speaker: And you've mentioned, of course, it isnt it's a long haul. It's an expensive long haul. Have you managed to get back since you returned from the seven years? Yes, and only once. So I went over at the start of last year and that was fantastic. um It reminded me of all the incredible things that New Zealand is and what all the people are and yeah and it reminded me as well of how much of that I've brought back over to my life here in Scotland and the influence influence that's had on my outdoors life and my artwork as well it's been really significant so I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you to develop that a little bit. I'd love to hear what you brought back consciously or subconsciously, you know, from your time in New Zealand. Yeah. Do you know, I think, I think the biggest difference is the impact of just being immersed in absolutely incredible wild scenery.
Speaker: the whole time. So I lived in quite a remote place, and Milford Sound. um And even once I'd finished work there, I was still in in very sort of scenic mountainous um locations.
Speaker: And the scope for a just going out and doing things is as huge. and And outdoors is a really integrated part of lifestyle. that it doesn't It's not like the separation that it sometimes is here where it's like, oh, I'm going to do an outdoorsy thing. It is it just is life. um And I think when I came back to Scotland, I realized how...
Speaker: how many incredible adventures there are here that I'd probably missed and it might be that cliche of you have to go very far away to appreciate what's on your doorstep I know that cliche well yeah I can ah i can imagine you do so yeah Yeah, that's very interesting. it something I think about a lot because where I am, I'm in a quite densely populated area. I mean, you you do have to make almost a conscious effort to get outside. It's house to car to work to car to house. yeah Unless you make a ah you know conscious choice to break that cycle.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. And it can be quite easy to be because I live in a city as well, of course, and it can be quite easy to be in that that that routine. But yeah, I can. And yeah, has it made you see Scotland differently as well? Just sorry to throw a question back at you. It absolutely does. I consider myself very fortunate because born in Scotland, raised in Scotland, that's where my roots are, that's where my family is, but I also get to see it through a tourist size in the sense that I was living here, bringing Kate back, things like that. i get to it almost
Speaker: It's not playing tour guide, but it's it has given me a new appreciation for many things yeah and been very thankful for it, which I think, as you have done, you need to step away from it sometimes to go God, this really is a great place.
Speaker: oh Yeah, that's true. Like everywhere else it has its ups and downs, but there's no better place to be from, in my humble personal work opinion. Yes, well, I mean, I'm very biased and I fully agree with you. Right.
Speaker: Well, speaking of, I'm assuming that this trip in New Zealand influenced this, but you you've hiked the Cape Wrath Trail, which is... Not and not yet. Not yet. I've still to me about this plan because this is not, from my knowledge, a well-marked trail with lots of things on the way. you are quite you know It's quite remote and rugged. What is bringing this about?
Speaker: but Well, it was, you know, what is my Cape Wrath journey has had an ah quite a of lengthy journey before I've actually set foot on the trail. That's right. So I initially, when I first heard of it, I thought this sounds a fantastic challenge. So wild, remote, um you know, i I don't cover many miles in a day when I'm walking. i'm I'm a, you know, I'm a fairly... steady walker and I don't feel the need to set speed records so I thought well this could be you know up to a month of potentially very challenging but also very very remote and beautiful um and I started planning it and in the year that Covid started so right I was all set to go and then Covid hit and nobody was going anywhere right And particularly in Glasgow, nobody was going anywhere for a very long time. Our lockdown lasted, to think it was the longest in the UK.
Speaker: and ah So I thought, well, I'll walk it straight after that. And then various life events um got in the way. So... Yeah, so, well, there were some some family things. I know you're you're aware my dad was very ill for a while.
Speaker: And then um I became ill from Lyme disease. And so now things have settled and life is looking different. And I have next, I have May off. The reason I'm not walking it this year is quite simply because...
Speaker: At the tail end of summer, the amount of midges, the amount of ticks, right and also a lot of the um a lot of the land that iss a that you cross is deer stalking land, which there will be some shooting restrictions, and the finish line is an MOD firing range, which can be quite active in autumn. LAUGHTER i do love the image of you crossing the i know there's not exactly a finish line but crossing the finish line and some sort of mortar shells flying over your head yeah that woulduffice for all those reasons um me as the as my proposed uh start date i have i have a month off work and i have the the route i have well but a bit time to work in my fitness but generally i will just set off and take at my own pace Good for you. Yeah, very very much looking forward to f
Speaker: It's probably far enough a away that I'm fully looking forward to I'll be getting nervous closer up to the time. Absolutely. I walk, there's a there's ah the longest, don't know if it still is, it was the longest footpath in Texas. It's called the Lone Star Trail, about 100 miles or so. And there's windows that you are highly encouraged to not be on the trail. And if you are, you legally have to wear almost like high-vis things because it's in the middle of hunting season ah and all of that. So...
Speaker: almost every hiker you talk to says, don't just don't do it. You can wear all the high vis stuff you like, you know, if there's shots going on around you, it's deer hunting season, all of that stuff.
Speaker: I mean, that really puts a whole new spin on going for a lovely, challenging walk. That's no longer about your own personal challenge. That's about, you know, trusting other human beings not to take a shot at you. Exactly. And I would rather not take that gamble. so No, no, that's that's that's not really, yeah, that's that's not the kind of risk I'm getting on either. No, no, I did it well after the season for Deere had finished.
Speaker: um So I'd love to talk to you a little bit about your art and how you it got into art. But obviously it's a skill that you have honed and developed over the years and is now your living in many ways.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. So it's, um yeah, i guess I always absolutely loved drawing and um yeah, then decided to apply for art school and yeah, went up to art school after school and ever since then have yeah I've just been continuing with it it's evolved a lot over the the years so when I first I've always had a studio I've inhabited some very odd corners of Glasgow And in New Zealand as well. I always had a studio, always had ah and an art practice. But initially it was very much about the urban landscape and urban environment. So a lot of footprints and brickwork. And that changed slowly. It changed slowly the more I started heading into the hills because I was a bit of a late starter with hill walking. Only really discovered that there were hills once I'd
Speaker: I think once I come back from you art school, actually. um and yeah And then the years in New Zealand as well just meant that mountains became the main focus of of my work. But it's very much about the feeling of the place and the environment rather than just a direct representation of the place.
Speaker: So... Interesting you bring that up because I'm going to make an assumption here and if the answer is it doesn't, it's just fine. But I kind of got the feeling that Glasgow has probably influenced your art because it has such a distinct personality as a city, that yeah the architecture, the people, the humour, the history, all of those things. So I was curious if and how that may have influenced your art.
Speaker: Yeah, ah do you know what? I've... I've spent... most of us, suppose, bar bar New Zealand and and and studying, I have spent most of my life and adult life in Glasgow. And as you say, it's it's so distinctive and it's got, it's a collection of villages and the creativity and the diversity is is is fantastic.
Speaker: So I think, I think it has continually influenced it in terms of the earlier work was always about walking through the city and seeing traces and speaking to people So when you're, i do a lot of drawing on location and it's interesting when you're out in the hills doing drawing on location, people will sometimes stop to say hello or maybe sort of quietly peer over your shoulder and carry on walking. You do this in Glasgow, you are without a doubt going to meet a lot of people. Yes. So I don't think there's many Glaswegians that are afraid of coming up and saying what you're doing or what's that meant to be? Right. Something lovely and warm like that.
Speaker: yeah yeah Yeah, absolutely. So I think that i think all those those layers of of people and place and identity, um Absolutely come through in all the and all the the landscape work as well. And that's where it's where it's very much about place rather than just the the rocks or the view that's in front of you. Right. Funny you bring up the people who may come and peer over your shoulder because I'm i'm kind of hoping it's not just me. I'm assuming people might come up to you, see your artwork and say something along the lines of, oh, I could never do that. I wish I could do that. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: What do you say to people who who have never attempted, i say attempted art, you know, so yeah as an adult, they haven't drawn since they were in school and they they're kind of curious about dipping their toe into it. What did you say to them?
Speaker: Do you know what? that's ah but That's a brilliant question because it's one that I get a lot and and a lot of workshops as well. I get a lot of, and oh, I'm not creative. I can't do this. And I don't know what age that gets sort of stamped out of people. Because when you see kids, I mean, kids are so proud of what they've drawn, are clamouring for you to admire it. Right, right. And then it's at some point it changes. and
Speaker: I think the the, so something that I do often in workshops, if people say, oh, I can't, I can't draw at all, is I say, just start drawing a couple of little squares on a bit of paper. Find a leaf or find a little flower or find any, even just a blade of grass from your local park.
Speaker: and try and draw that outline in the little square in your sketchbook so break it down into tiny little pieces you don't need to draw a huge big thing straight away or look at the patterns or and just do simple little all things like that or find a color of a leaf and try and match that color on a piece of scrap paper And the other thing I always say to two people is have a sketchbook, just a little scrappy little notebook that can fit into your pocket. And instead of doing that thing we all do, which is if you have a moment of downtime, scroll through your phone. yeah um Instead of that
Speaker: pull your little notebook out your pocket and just sketch whatever's in front of you. And that can be, you know, just just the the pattern on on something or or it can be, you know, you can go grand with it as well. But don't be precious about it.
Speaker: all my sketchbooks i'm always very happy to show all my sketchbooks because some of the drawings are absolutely abysmal and it's great that's how you get good drawings you have to start somewhere absolutely yeah absolutely and i think there's nothing that drives the fear fear into people more than a large piece of blank paper that says this must be a perfect piece of artwork so right yeah so if you can lose the perfection and play with it a little and see what comes out of it I think that's what i mean that's a good line you could use in all aspects of life just losing the perfection which will allow you to move forward
Speaker: I was also thinking when I was you know preparing for this interview, you must spend a lot of time sort talking about art and teaching people, but what's art taught you? If you kind step back from your life and you think, where would my life be without art and what has it given me? What's it taught you?
Speaker: Oh, gosh. Putting you on the spot. Yeah, no, I absolutely love that. That's brilliant because... I don't know if I've ever really slowed down to think about that. And as soon as you said, what has that given you or what would it be like without it? it's It's everything. It's absolutely everything. I didn't realise quite how deep that went. and It's given me a way of...
Speaker: seeing the world, a way of trying to understand the world, and a way of trying to communicate because, you know, because communication isn't all, you know, standard verbal. It isn't, you know, that's, it's visual language as a whole different language and it's given immense amounts of joy I can get so excited about colours. What a beautiful thing that is, to get excited about colours.
Speaker: It really is. Sometimes in the studio, if i if I've just mixed out a colour of a particularly intense blue, it'll be an absolute thrill the same way as if you see ah you know ah a blue sky out there. So, yeah, it's given me a lot and a means of communicating thoughts and emotions to people as well, which is, yeah, which is pretty yeah which is a lot I love that it's uh yeah it's it's just such an interesting world to me because I don't know much about art in a sort of academic sense but I can look at a piece and and there are some pieces I'll of no reaction to and then other ones for some reason and I don't understand it will willll get you they'll get those feelings going
Speaker: Yeah, and that's the fantastic thing about art and everyone will be completely different and I can, there's loads of artworks that I can really appreciate. from a technical point of view and I respect them and I understand them and i think they're fantastic. And then there's others that are just, you know, they hit you emotionally and I don't think we need to understand that. I think, yeah. I agree. I think it's beautiful to not dig into that too much and just let those feelings and emotions be.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. As we kind of round the corner here to kind of wrap up this interview, I did warn you, I'd have three questions for you. Yes. The first one is, what does success look like to you and how has that changed, if indeed it has, over the years?
Speaker: and Success to me as defined as having what you need and the people that you love and care about being well that's that's that's success so to me being able to do work that i enjoy would be nice for them to be slightly more lucrative but right right or maybe even just financially stable career choices would be good But yes, success would be being able to follow, be it being able to live the kind of life that you that that you want to live. And in my case, that's a creative and outdoorsy one.
Speaker: I love it. You've got a beautiful bookshelf behind you. and I wanted to ask you about what book has perhaps had the most impact on your life. It's not necessarily the best book, but one that has been particularly impactful on your life.
Speaker: Do you know, I don't know if I could choose just one. That's so difficult. So difficult. This happens quite a bit where people suddenly three or four come to their mind. So you can yeah choose one of them with the understanding that there is actually several.
Speaker: OK, well, I would say... One of them would be, let's see, I'll stick with the outdoorsy one then. Actually, there's that out of out of my line of sight, there's a whole bookcase of amazing graphic novels as well. so said But one book, I think, which I first got into wandering up hills with is quite an old book. It's by Alistair Borthwick called Always a Little Further.
Speaker: And it's an account of the very first sort of hill walkers and climbers that hitchhiked their way out of Glasgow to head up to Arachar and, you know, do some pretty rough and ready sleeping in barns and then going climbing the next day.
Speaker: And there was something about that sense of adventure that I loved. And one of my first outdoor adventures was to photocopy. This is how old school was. Photocopy a page out of the book that described some caves up by Archer.
Speaker: Go on the description, the book and this soggy little photocopy to find these caves and spend the night in them. And that was tremendous. It's funny. I've just I've just finished listening to another podcast just a week or two ago about it was the first two people to drive from coast to coast in America.
Speaker: And the adventure, and and I guess there's a documentary, there's there's stuff on these people out there. And it really did make me realize we've lost so much of that, you know, that that sense of adventure because it's all been done. it's documented. Yeah. And so I do love reading about the firsts.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely. So I've written this name down and we'll need to look this book up. Yeah, yeah. some Yeah, for for for me, it just, yes, it's early adventure. That's what it signifies. I love it. Well, my final question for you is, and I don't believe this is your medium, but if you could sit down and paint somebody's portrait for the day,
Speaker: And you could have them at your disposal to ask any questions, to ask them about anything and everything you would want. Now, this could be somebody who has passed away, somebody who's alive, somebody famous, somebody, know, anyone who has ever existed.
Speaker: Who would you love to spend a day with? Paint them or paint with them. And you get to tap into their mind. Oh, Oh, now how long do I have to think of this? You can think as long as you want. I will let you know, you know previous guests, they've gone on a huge range of tangents.
Speaker: Yeah. from From close loved ones to, I can say this because it's been long enough, they told me off air they would actually want to sit down with Hitler. Because they would want to and they would want to understand how such where such evil came from. Yeah. And understand how to ah never allow that to turn into something.
Speaker: What could they do to try and turn, which I thought was a fascinating perspective. Yeah, that is fascinating. Yeah. And then we've had everything in between. My guest, a week or two, goes I wanted that a TV celebrity who loves nature, Steve Irwin, the great Australian, is no longer with us. So, yeah, a whole range of people.
Speaker: so just depends where your mind goes well i'll i'll describe what my mind rattled through still haven't quite settled but maybe in explaining i will uh find someone when you said um and painting portrait then the first my one of my first thoughts was also loved ones that are that are gone because i've somehow found myself to be one of the think where we're pretty much the the oldest generation in my family now which i feel like i'm far too young for that so so i have lots of you know i would very much love to sit down and draw portrait of my mum and ask her all the questions that i couldn't ask you she passed away when we were about i was about 24 i think so yes so so lots and lots of questions there i think
Speaker: And then immediately rattled through lots of incredible women in the outdoors and amazing artists as well. But I think I think I would have to just, yeah, settle back to my mum.
Speaker: And I think that's a beautiful place to end this podcast because I've got yeah very fond memories and her stories and laughter live on through my mum and the stories told. Absolutely. and I appreciate that so much as well. It means, honestly, it means so much to me. It really, really does. So, yeah. It means a lot to me too. It's wonderful. If people have questions they would like to ask you about your travel, about art, especially in Scotland, where could they find you?
Speaker: um So, Cath Pender Art on Instagram or Facebook or my website, which is also cathpenderart.com. I'm not always great at updating everything, but I am active there and yes, and I would be delighted to chat with anyone about anything i'm quite uh quite approachable i think or at least i like chatting i think so i can vouch for you you are as approachable as they come well kev thank you very much for this time today this has been just tremendous yeah thank you so much appreciate
Speaker: Thank you again to this week's guest and I hope today's episode was as enjoyable for you as it was for me and perhaps even inspired your next adventure. If you did enjoy the show, please be sure to subscribe, leave a review or follow us wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more information at theoutdoorsyeducator.com or follow us on Instagram, TikTok or Facebook. Until next time, thank you so much for listening to The Outdoorsy Educator Podcast.
