Building DeFi's $25B Liquidity Engine, with Curve Founder Michael Egorov

In this episode, Lex speaks with Michael Egorov - Founder of Curve Finance and YieldBasis. Kicking things off about his journey from experimental physicist to founder of Curve Finance and YieldBasis, highlighting how theoretical physics concepts influenced his creation of financial invariants in DeFi protocols.

Curve pioneered fully automated concentrated liquidity for stablecoins and introduced veTokenomics, a governance model rewarding long-term commitment with voting power and protocol fees. Egorov defends veTokenomics against criticisms of unlock-driven volatility, citing that most CRV locks average over 3 years and behave like permanent commitments. YieldBasis expands Curve’s approach by offering impermanent gain strategies to counter impermanent loss in volatile markets like Bitcoin, aiming to scale toward a $50B market ceiling.

The discussion closes with reflections on DeFi token market structure challenges and Egorov’s call for protocols to connect token value to real economic flows by activating fee-sharing mechanisms.

NOTABLE DISCUSSION POINTS:

1. veTokenomics Drives Long-Term Alignment and Token Sink Efficiency
   Michael Egorov introduced veTokenomics in Curve to address short-termism in token governance by requiring users to lock CRV tokens for up to 4 years to gain voting power and protocol rewards. This mechanism has proven effective in practice, with the average CRV lock time exceeding 3 years, effectively removing tokens from circulation. Egorov notes that veTokenomics removed 3x more tokens from supply than buybacks would have, highlighting its material impact on protocol stability and investor alignment.
2. YieldBasis Aims to Neutralize Impermanent Loss via Engineered Impermanent Gain
   YieldBasis builds on Curve’s AMM infrastructure by combining two layers: a Curve pool experiencing impermanent loss, and a complementary structure engineered to capture “impermanent gain”. This dual-layer approach statistically delivers net profit in volatile assets like Bitcoin, assuming mean-reverting price movements. Egorov estimates the market ceiling for this strategy at $50 billion, positioning YieldBasis as a scalable solution for volatility-based yield generation.
3. DeFi’s Market Structure Issues Stem from Uncertain Token-Economics Linkages
   Egorov critiques much of DeFi for failing to connect protocol economics to token value. While Curve distributes fees directly to CRV lockers, most protocols (like Uniswap) have not activated fee-sharing mechanisms (”fee switches”), creating valuation uncertainty. Egorov argues that unless projects “turn the switch on” and reduce economic ambiguity, token pricing will remain volatile and fragile, hindering broader adoption and investment confidence.

TOPICS

Curve Finance, YieldBasis, Uniswap, MakerDAO, Convex, StakeDAO, Threshold Network, NuCypher, AladdinDAO, Athena, Yearn, DeFi, veTokenomics, AMM, Stablecoin, Tokenomics, Governance, CRV Token, Ethereum, ETH, Bitcoin, BTC

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TIMESTAMPS

1’17: From Laser Cooling to Stablecoin Swaps: Michael Egorov on Physics-Inspired DeFi and Writing the “Laws” of Money

9’12: On-Chain Macro Labs: Designing Economies at Speed

14’58: Lockups vs. Liquidity Wrappers: When “