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Jeremy Keating interviews Waseem Malik from Aviva - Episode 4
53 Plays1 year ago
Join us today as Jeremy sits down with Waseem Malik, Chief Claims Officer at Aviva, to discuss: -His unique journey to leading claims -The pressing issues and innovations reshaping the insurance industry -Leveraging data for improved decision-making -Diversity challenges -The power of technology in streamlining operations Waseem offers insights that anyone in the sector, or even just curious about it, shouldn't miss.
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Transcript
Vision for Data-Driven Insurance
00:00:00
Speaker
My vision for insurance is one which is data-led decision-making supported heavily by technology and improved infrastructure.
Introduction to Wadeem Malik
00:00:08
Speaker
Today I'm joined by Wadeem Malik, who could be the nicest person in insurance. I've known him since his days at AXA. With an impressive background, he is now Chief Claims Officer at Aviva. Wadeem holds non-executive director roles, has three children and coaches under 10s football and cricket.
00:00:27
Speaker
so clearly likes to keep himself busy inside and outside of work. Hello my team and welcome to the show. Great to see you Jeremy, delighted to be here.
00:00:38
Speaker
brilliant to see you
Wadeem's Career Journey
00:00:39
Speaker
as well. The first thing I want to ask you is how did you get where you are today? Good question and I probably haven't taken the most standard of routes either. I'm a chartered accountant by trade, I qualified with PwC, started your team transaction services. I was specialising mostly in insurance and that was my first taste of the sector and actually really believed in the noble purpose that insurance serves, helping customers at their time of need.
00:01:03
Speaker
I then moved into more traditional finance roots. I did a chief of staff role, which was great. Learned a hell of a lot doing that. And then moved to become the CFO of insurance, where obviously we both went together. That's right. I did that for a number of years. And then I think I got to the point where I was like, actually, I want to do something operational. I want to do something quite different. And here I am in claims.
00:01:27
Speaker
I did the claims role at AXA for about three and a half years. And I'm now close to one and a half years into the chief claims officer role at Aviva. And I think probably shows that actually you don't need to be an expert or a specialist and actually just providing core skills, leadership, understanding commercials, actually you can almost do anything in the insurance sector.
00:01:51
Speaker
You work with great, intelligent, like-minded people who all have a quest for doing good things for our customers.
Ethical Motivation in Insurance
00:01:58
Speaker
That's probably where I am. And I probably haven't stuck to the knitting, so to speak. I've been quite up for challenge and change. And here I am running claims. Did I think I'd be doing that? Not a team.
00:02:09
Speaker
It is brilliant though you are right there's lots of opportunities in insurance for different career paths and in some ways the operational side gets forgotten about by some people. I think it's interesting to pick on what you said about the sort of ethical side of insurance as well because I very much that was one of my motivations to join it because when you think about someone who has suffered a severe loss be it
00:02:33
Speaker
perhaps a car accident or their home or actually protect them and put them right. It's a wonderful thing to be able to do. I completely agree. And probably the most soul destroying thing is when you look at trust indices, insurance is quite low.
Addressing Misconceptions
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah. Customers think that we're to rig allows paying valid claims. We absolutely don't. And if you look at how much we do pay out, it's in the high 90%.
00:02:57
Speaker
So actually there is a misconception between reality and perception and actually is working in the industry. Everyone wants to do what's right for the customer. I think we all have a part to play to help promote that, educate customers to say that we're not evil. We are there to help you and we will be there at your time of need. And you're absolutely right. That's a great noble purpose. And I think it gives you a reason to get out of bed in the morning.
00:03:22
Speaker
Let's keep demonstrating and let's give customers those great experiences so that it does change perception. Unfortunately, we know insurance is often a grudge purchase, particularly now with the cost of living crisis we're under.
Changing Customer Perception
00:03:37
Speaker
So actually, the one opportunity we have to change that perception is when customers claim. So let's give them a great service and help change that perception.
00:03:45
Speaker
Hopefully they'll go away with a different view and tell their friends and family. It's a little bit about transparency as well. I think a lot of customers don't quite understand the cover they have. And actually a lot of the dissatisfaction that then arises is because they haven't really understood the cover. They have an absolute part to play in making sure they do. And actually things like consumer duty will actually help. So it's a lot of work, but actually I think ultimately it's for the right reasons.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yes, we should simplify the products, make it easier for customers to understand. What do you see as your mission for insurance? I'd like customers to believe in insurance and being more, to begin to appreciate what it's there for.
Diversity and Inclusion in Insurance
00:04:32
Speaker
And then actually appreciate the service they get in exchange. So it's very much about changing that customer perception. So really what we've been talking about. So how can we do that? As I've said, it's through that service offering. But I think there's probably more we can do on promotion. And I think we're such a big, strong industry. What more can we do?
00:04:52
Speaker
Here at Viva, we play a huge part in our communities in making sure that people understand that we're here for our communities as well. I think that DE&I agenda is really important and historic de-insurance hasn't been a very diverse sector. I think there's more we can do and I'm pleased to see we are doing that.
00:05:11
Speaker
All those things help. They all change that perception of what the insurance industry is there for. And I want to play a big part in that because I see myself as someone who is in a senior position and I'm very grateful for that, but that gives me some influence. And I want to make sure I use that influence in the right way to help bring that positive change. There's a lot of big insurers out there. We all spend a lot of money and invest in economies and people and talent.
00:05:38
Speaker
but I think there's more we can do to sell that message. I don't think historically we've been as good at positive PR and making us an attractive career choice rather than people just falling into insurance, which most people do. Let's make people choose to come into insurance because they understand what we're there for. So I think if we can achieve those sorts of things, I think the whole industry will be in a great place and we've got something to leave to that next generation of talent coming.
00:06:07
Speaker
I think it is very common for people to say they fell into insurance actually, or it wasn't what they imagined doing. And then they did join it, have enjoyed it, enjoyed the experience. It's interesting on the diversity point as well, because whilst there has been progress, there is so much more today.
00:06:27
Speaker
Totally. And I think it's really pleasing to see the progress we're now making. I think we've made big strides in gender. I think there's more to do on ethnic representation and other forms of diversity. But again, we spent a lot of time at Aviva talking about it. There's a lot happening in the industry as well. So I think we all have a part to play no matter who we are. I think there's something to do there for all of us. And I almost feel it's a responsibility we have.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yes, I think we all need to be responsible in that way. But what do you see as your vision for the future?
Future of Insurance
00:07:02
Speaker
Whenever I look at the future, I see quite an exciting world because I think there's many things that insurance is at the forefront of. So I would say we probably use data better than anywhere else.
00:07:14
Speaker
Historically, it's probably been more in the pricing sphere, and I think that's now evolving. So certainly in claims, we are using a lot more data than we used to, and that will help us make better decisions ultimately for our customers, get the claim right first time. So actually, I see a world where insurance will be even more data led.
00:07:34
Speaker
than it is, I think the role of technology has a huge part to play. We've already seen an acceleration of digitization with sort of the COVID crisis. I think there's more to come. I think there's a lot of journeys we can just automate and digitize end-to-end so that when we actually touch customer experience is to add value. And I think if we look at the next generation of people coming through,
00:07:58
Speaker
They're used to interacting everything via an app or, you know, online. So once the last time you went into a bank branch, I don't think I can remember, right? So banking via our apps has become so commonplace, insurance is still lagging a bit on that. So I probably see a world of high automation, high digitized personalization, and actually if.
00:08:22
Speaker
There are people interacting. It will be on complex claims where we can really add value, where we can make a difference. And I think data will lead a lot of that. Probably my vision for insurance is one which is data-led decision making supported heavily by technology and improved infrastructure. So we're all encumbered by legacy. I think that will have to change. You will have to find ways around that. And there are technological solutions now. You can put platforms in the cloud.
00:08:51
Speaker
You can have APIs connecting into your core platform where you don't need to modify that too much. And actually you can even have an old platform and almost bring it to life through the eye layer that you put in. So actually I think it's quite an exciting place and I think we'll continue to see a lot of live scale transformation in trying to get us there. We'll see different roles emerge. So actually how we retrain our staff and take them on that journey, I think is equally important.
00:09:18
Speaker
It's a great profession. I would love to attract more people in it through choice and give them that diversity of career and that talent path because the industry offers so much and people like us, we've lived and proved it. We see that. Let's bring that to the outside world.
Automation and Efficiency
00:09:33
Speaker
And I think we might attract to different people when we talk about this revolution that's coming, be that data, digital technology, automation, et cetera.
00:09:42
Speaker
You just look at Gen AI and chat GBT. Yeah. Possible with that is huge. Yeah. Clearly we're at very early days. It needs to be tested. It needs to be developed. But that strikes me as another opportunity where I think insurance can again, lead from the front. Exciting times, I'd say.
00:10:00
Speaker
It is definitely. I spoke to Jason Cabrula a few weeks ago and he from the AA and he was especially interested in the first notification of loss being with say a chatbot. So there's that conversation with a customer and then it can triage the claim there and then, and perhaps it goes to a human or perhaps even the machine can do a lot of the work before.
00:10:26
Speaker
Absolutely. And I only see things like that increasing. So already we have an enol electronic notification of loss operating on most of our personal lines products. Yeah. Take-up is large. And in some areas we get more through enol than we do through ethanol. Yeah. That's a big shift.
00:10:42
Speaker
And actually we can automate that journey end to end for simple claims. And actually people have busy lives. They don't necessarily want to be in a queue waiting to speak to someone, whatever the call center opening hours are, they can do this anytime.
Evolving Roles in Insurance
00:10:57
Speaker
So we are absolutely seeing customer habits change, customer demands change. And I think as an industry, we absolutely have to keep pace with that.
00:11:07
Speaker
Absolutely, it's good for us as well. So far too much inefficiency creeps in when perhaps a customer has to contact us just to ask where their car is and we're like, oh, it's being worked. It's just inefficient for everyone.
00:11:22
Speaker
I agree. I think if you did any analysis of any insurer, you would probably find 30 to 40% of most calls are waste phone calls. Their customers are chasing for updates. Like, are we not on the system? Do you ever have to chase Amazon for where your delivery is? No. But every stage where it is, just through that proactive push, technology exists for us to do that in insurance. So let's do it.
00:11:45
Speaker
I just see a change and an evolving nature of the skill sets we need. So you go back five years. Did you need data engineers? Did you need translators, et cetera? They're probably two of the hottest areas of recruitment in insurers now, because it's all about data.
00:12:03
Speaker
It's all about the analytics you do with it. So that's a great example of something that's probably mushroomed in the last five years or so. And that's only going to keep growing. And I'm sure we will see more and more of those types of things.
00:12:17
Speaker
Definitely. I'm seeing people needing pricing developers and pricing testers. And that's 10 years ago. We would, we just did that. It wasn't a thing at all. And it's the same in other areas where you're seeing these new roles of care, which is great. It's great for everyone and particularly good for customers. I completely agree. If I apply that to the journey, I've been on claims recently.
00:12:41
Speaker
I didn't really just employ claims handlers anymore. I'm recruiting statisticians, I'm recruiting data analysts, recruiting software engineers, digital experts, people from other industries who have good online customer experience type skill sets, commercial people. It's a whole array of different roles. And you need that. And I think we'll need that more and more as we go forward. I think you will need that diversity of skills there and experience as well as everything else.
00:13:11
Speaker
It is a genuinely exciting time, seeing how things are evolving and how we are, like you say, going from having lots and lots of people with perhaps very similar jobs into having very diverse skill sets to work with. I agree.
Appeal for New Talent
00:13:26
Speaker
And I think the macroeconomic factors will only accelerate that. Yeah. Because times are tough and that forces organizations to think differently because your customers are facing pressures. So we have to act.
00:13:40
Speaker
Brilliant, Wesley. Thanks very much for talking to me this afternoon. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Probably not. Other than I'd say insurance is a great place to be and I'd love to see more talent attracted to it. Thank you for the conversation. It's been really great.