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To the (P)Max! - Talking Performance Max Campaigns
6 Plays11 months ago
SEO is like a solar panel.
PPC, when done correctly, is like a light switch.
Look, electrical work isn't easy, but once you've run the wires, attached them to the switch, secured the switch in the wall box, and reattached the cover plate, and you flip the switch -- Voila! Power. (thanks Google AI Overview)
PPC isn't easy either, but once you've laid the groundwork, you turn on the ads and start connecting with shoppers.
As part of your PPC strategy, you may have heard of Performance Max (PMax) campaigns. You may also have heard any number of issues that marketers may take up about this type of PPC ad; however, SearchLab's own Susan Yen has some news for you: the juice is worth the squeeze when you apply the right pressure.
Her solution to any PMax holdup includes three tenets:
Strategic Account Structure
Great Ad Copy
Discerning Audience Signals/Targeting
That's right, it's time to get granular. It's time to get serious about the way your ads communicate to shoppers. It's time to know how to layer on audience details, like knowing the difference between affinities and buying signals.
Susan lays it out there, so you can bite off more than you can chew.
Plus, she provides a bonus insight about A/B testing in PPC.
In addition, as part of what is a tradition with More Than You Can Chew, Susan shares her favorite restaurant in Portsmouth, New Hampshire: Five81NE.
In the episode, Susan shares her own favorites, but host Dane Saville also set his sights on ...
Moo Ping Skewer
Isaan Style Marinated Pork Shoulder | Garlic-Soy Sauce
Chili-Tamarind Dip
Thai Noodles
Wide Rice Noodles | Chive | Egg l Bean Sprouts Garlic-Sweet Soy Sauce
As always, if you like what you've heard, please follow the podcast on your favorite platform and share it with your network on social media!
If you're looking for SEO or PPC services, or you'd like an audit of your website or content, please reach out to Dane Saville at dane.saville@searchlabdigital.com.
Thanks to the leadership at SearchLab Digital for making this podcast possible.
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Transcript
Podcast Release Challenges
00:00:11
Speaker
Well, welcome back to More Than You Can Chew. I'm your host, Dane Seville, and i gotta admit something. I've had some technical issues. I've had some traveling and scheduling issues.
00:00:27
Speaker
issues with regards to getting this podcast up. And so you're going to be hearing insights that you should have a few weeks ago. Now, they're still relevant, no you know right? They didn't they didn't expire.
Guest Introduction: Susan Yen
00:00:39
Speaker
But you'll hear in the interview Susan Yen, who will be our guest, PPC team lead here at Search Lab Digital. She was talking about how she's going to be speaking at PPC Heroes Hero Conference.
00:00:54
Speaker
And while that was... That was this week. So it's happened. It's done. But that doesn't detract from the incredible insights, dynamic energy, and truly actionable tidbits Food for thought. Oh, more than you can chew. Food for thought. Get it?
00:01:20
Speaker
But seriously, Susan Yan is just incredibly brilliant. And so I should quit with this whole preamble. Just apologize to you for the inconsistency of getting this episode out and commit my absolute best to you moving forward with greater consistency. So let's go ahead and, well, let's place in the interview.
Welcoming Susan Yen
00:01:42
Speaker
Welcome back to a nor new, o thriller welcome back to a new More Than You Can Chew. Well, it's like I got my mouth full. I can't even talk. I'm excited today because we actually have one of Search Lab's own folks, PPC team lead, Susan Yen. Susan, thanks for carving out some time on More Than You Can Chew.
00:02:01
Speaker
Of of course. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So lately, you know, Engage PDX, I believe you have what the Hero Conference coming up. You're starting to hit the speaker circuit. How exciting is that? i am so stoked. The engagement event was amazing. I had an incredible job, you know, learning so much about page search, AI content, all this stuff.
00:02:21
Speaker
And now I'm heading out to the Hero Conference. It's it's just wild. And i am i'm all I'm ready for it. but That's kind of where I'm at. Awesome. Well, i heard that your session at Engage was very well received, very well done. So congratulations on that.
00:02:34
Speaker
And that's why i want to have you on because you have things to say, you have ideas, and they're very, very compelling. So I'll never profess myself to be a PPC expert or novice.
00:02:47
Speaker
or amateur, or even remotely knowledgeable. But I do know how to look at information folks put out there about PPC topics. And there's one in particular I know you've kind of pounded the war drums about, and that's performance max
Performance Max Campaign Challenges
00:03:00
Speaker
campaigns. And while I've seen some complaints about them as well, things about the quality of leads or issues with targeting, ah that they're for more volume instead of quality, that it's tough with the ah determining audiences and and building out, or i guess, excluding irrelevant audiences and others. But those few kind of stuck out to me as really being the primary issues.
00:03:24
Speaker
But it seems like you still see a lot of untapped potential for Performance Max to be a high quality lead generator lead generator. I can't talk today. So with all of those complaints, I want to ask one question. And listen, if you can't get through all of it, it's all good. That's what today is for. It's about biting off more than you can choose. So like I said, with all those complaints, with those perceived issues,
00:03:49
Speaker
What would you say, and go into as much detail as you want on one of them, all of them, whatever it might be in your head, get it out. What would you say are the top three, maybe four ways to overcome those issues and really make the juice worth the squeeze from PMAX?
Strategies for Performance Max Improvement
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, honestly, Performance Max, it's just it's a monster in itself. And I call it a like a black box nature. You know, you put a bunch of stuff in it and you hope for the best because you can't see the insides of it.
00:04:15
Speaker
I think a couple things that I think are very important in order to run a successful campaign that drives quality leads as opposed to just a mess of things um that come internally is the importance of it your account structure.
00:04:28
Speaker
I think that as you know as marketers, it's because the way that Performance Max was set up is to, it's a one campaign and it gives you absolutely everything from search, to display, video, and all that stuff.
00:04:41
Speaker
Unfortunately, what we decide to do as marketers is throw a bunch of stuff at it and just think it's going to to to work. And your account structure but especially with Special Performance Max is the more that you break it down and get granular with it, it's actually a better way for you to get data because that they don't give you breakdown of a lot the data.
00:05:01
Speaker
So, for example, is if you're running... um you know, the car dealer campaign is sometimes people will just have a campaign for just used cars. With Performance Max, you can't see into any search terms or anything like that. So you're not seeing what people are typing in or what people are searching in.
00:05:16
Speaker
Your audiences are kind of all over the place because just because someone is you looking for a used vehicle doesn't mean they're just, you know, they might actually be looking for a used Nissan and they're going to be very specific about it.
00:05:27
Speaker
But you can't do that within just a general, used cars campaign. So your best ah kind of way of structuring a campaign is to go, hey, this is a used, let's say used Honda, but underneath an asset group, you would have used Honda Civic.
00:05:43
Speaker
Keep it at that. Don't add any other makes or any other version of a Honda you can think of. Just have one campaign, one asset group. That way, when you are looking at that data and you're looking at like the clicks, the impressions, the conversions, and all those leads and stuff, is that you know it's coming from ah Honda Civic campaign. So that's number one, it's breaking it apart. It's going to look a little messy because you're going to, at some point, like, how granular can you get with this?
00:06:11
Speaker
It's going to look like a lot of different campaigns. But now you have Honda Civic on display, Honda Civic in search, Honda Civic on VLA, you have a Honda Civic on videos.
00:06:22
Speaker
It's now just one and you're able to communicate a little bit better in regards to what you're talking about. Which is my second point is that your ad copy and the way that you communicate with the audience is very, very important.
00:06:33
Speaker
People, it's a lot of noise out there. Everyone's trying to sell you everything at every point, everywhere. So how do we, I guess, break through the noise is the best way to do it.
00:06:44
Speaker
And Performance Max, and again,
Targeted Ad Copy and Audience Signals
00:06:46
Speaker
it makes it really hard to break through the noise because I think Performance Max in itself is noise. um So breaking it apart and and being able to say, okay, here's my account structure.
00:06:55
Speaker
Secondly, now your ad copy is going to communicate just about Honda Civic. So your headlines, There's tons of them now. you and fill out all those headlines.
00:07:07
Speaker
Give Google those ver variations of them. And then your adds um your descriptions also are now speaking towards the that particular vehicle or that particular service. And you're also setting sending them to the exact page of what they're looking for.
00:07:22
Speaker
there not no one wants to just click. you know If I'm looking for a Honda Civic and you're giving me sending me to a used cars page, I came here one thing. Don't send me everywhere and anywhere possible.
00:07:33
Speaker
So that'll make it easier. And that user experience um and that transition so much easier for you. And the third thing is honestly, your audiences and your audience signals and audience targeting.
00:07:45
Speaker
And what we want to try to do as marketers is try to get in front of everyone and anything and kind of, you know, we're adding in is some random stuff sometimes here and there, and we're not being a little bit nitpicky. And Performance Max does an amazing job of giving you a large significant like just a lot of different audiences you can choose from and sometimes you might have to you know test out in especially if this is kind of where your account structure comes in say if i have my honda and then my honda 7th is in within that campaign you can test out a couple of different audiences and say hey look we have a remarketing audience here versus um you know versus people that are intent versus affinity audiences be careful
00:08:26
Speaker
oh who and what you decide to choose to put in there. Cause there are audiences that are people that are searching for Honda, but look a little more more granularly, go through the list.
00:08:37
Speaker
Is there a used civic audience that you can target? And then there's like in market versus, you know, affinity. Those are two different audiences and how you communicate with them are going to be a little bit different.
00:08:47
Speaker
Affinity might not be, you know, if if you just like cars and you just like cars versus, Hey, I'm shopping for a car. You're aware of the fact that, you know, If you're buying something that significant or that large, it's going to take a little bit more time to get those conversions. And so the way you communicate with your audience is going to be different.
Effective Targeting with Customer Lists
00:09:06
Speaker
Also, your customer list.
00:09:07
Speaker
So use the people that come to your website. Set up those conversions and make sure that they're correct. um Is getting those, your converting audience or people that visit a particular page, don't just send them to, oh, here's my homepage and this is that audience I'm going to use.
00:09:22
Speaker
Send them to the used, let's say, you know, again, we're going use the model of the Honda Civic. is We're going to say people that visit the used Honda Civic as a whole. And then we're going to you just use Hondas because sometimes I want to say, like but what if there's a different, um a make that I want of a Honda? I'm a Honda driver. So that's probably why I'm getting into that little bit more.
00:09:44
Speaker
And then maybe just like other sedans that are similar to that Honda Civic, you can use that as audience. You need to layer things on top of each other. And because those, the way that you communicate with those audience are going to be very, very similar to, to one another.
00:09:59
Speaker
But it's all encompassing and, you know, and getting those emotional triggers. Like, why are they getting something that's small? Like a sedan versus someone that might be looking for an SUV versus someone that's looking for a convertible, you know, a luxury vehicle. call So, and, you know, everyone's at different point in their lives and they're shopping for something, not just for a solution, but for you to understand why they're shopping for that and for you to, and we always say this, let's meet our audience where we where
Regional Audience Communication
00:10:28
Speaker
they're at.
00:10:28
Speaker
But we don't actually do that. You need to figure out, you know, what's going on in that particular targeting area. You might be able to speak their language. That's where your ad copy come in. If you're marketing in Boston and you live in California, how they communicate with each other are different.
00:10:46
Speaker
um Their lingos are a little bit different. So, and now with marketers, we're global, we're all over the world, and you never know what's going on in different areas. i mean, we just had a hurricane. So you need to kind of, you know, get your conversations a little bit towards like, they might be looking for something a little bit different.
00:11:02
Speaker
Be aware. And sometimes it does feel like, do we know too much about our audience? Can we get too focused on the language? Are they going to get a little creeped out by it? ah They might.
00:11:13
Speaker
But at least they know that you understand where they're coming from and you listen to their problems. So I think those are honestly, to me, those are the three. think that was a lot. Those are the three. Your account structure, super important.
00:11:24
Speaker
um Your audience's second list. And your third is how you communicate um with your audience. And that is how I think that you but stop avoiding performance facts. Just figure out a better way to understand how it actually works.
00:11:38
Speaker
It's not going to go anywhere. promise you that. I'm pretty sure. And I hope but they don't take it away because it can work if you did you give it a chance. Awesome. You know, i as a writer by trade, I'm particularly attuned to and really enjoy the idea of understanding your audience and the language in which you use. And I always try to say, you know, colloquialisms don't get overly sort of you know, ah too colloquial, but understand how people talk in different regions. And you can incorporate some of that language and in in, you know, different elements of ah landing page copy and and other copy you write. and
00:12:13
Speaker
And I really like that. Understand the audience and and really write tailored towards them. um The one thing i did want to ask, and this, you know, again, if you need to take a few moments and really marinate on it, that's fine. Silence is not a problem. We can always edit it out.
00:12:27
Speaker
but But, you know, I always talk to folks about you know like what you know what what you know how a search lab different, what do you do, you know how do you test things? And I you know i talk about you know when you're talking about the intent of a search and a landing page, what intent that landing page is trying to capture.
00:12:43
Speaker
And you know then you can look up you know semantically or contextually related searches to that primary sort of key where you're trying to capture to test maybe in the title tag or the H1 or the content. How do you go about effectively doing sort of A-B b tests on the PPC side?
00:12:59
Speaker
Maybe even if you even want get particular performance max or even just if you just want to talk about that in general. Because I think it's important that I think a lot of folks set and forget both on the PPC side and the SEO side where people just, you know, SEO folks will create content and then they just let it sit there and they call that SEO.
00:13:17
Speaker
You know, people create an ad and they just let it sit there and they call it PPC. So how do you go about strategically thinking about A-B b tests?
Adapting PPC Campaigns with A-B Testing
00:13:26
Speaker
I think as as marketers as a whole, regardless of if you're on SEO, if you're doing content writing, if you're a social media influencer, if you're a digital page search person, is that I think one, it starts with just understanding that we're in an industry that changes consistently. And we need to be able to adapt and also change with it.
00:13:52
Speaker
And if you Change the way that you think and remind yourself that it is an ever-changing place, which also goes into your audience are always changing.
00:14:04
Speaker
So you can't be running the same things because your people are not going to be the same at all. And whether that is, hey, I need to create a different campaign altogether to test it out, whether it just either it's the same campaign with a couple, like, you might be changing the language of it, you might be changing the images of something, keeping the same language, changing the image, um or just testing out a whole entire new bidding strategy, there is, you can get stale with letting things, just because it's working, doesn't mean you can't make it better, so I think the best way to honestly test out A-B testing is
00:14:47
Speaker
If you see something, because I think a lot of times is we focus too much on something that isn't working and then that's when we decide to make a change. Even if it's going really well, keep that campaign, test out a different version of it.
00:15:00
Speaker
It might actually be better. I think there's like, um what is that? Goldilocks? Like she went around testing out the different suits to find the right one.
00:15:13
Speaker
Or like testing out different chairs to try the right one. um So, not I mean, granted, she didn't stay with the ones that she did like that. I'm just saying, like, you need to test it out and you need to understand that as marketers, if we're growing, that means that our audience are growing.
00:15:27
Speaker
The way that that you're communicating with someone right now does not mean it's going to continue to work. And if we need to stay ahead of that. um So keeping your campaigns, your content all the same just does not make much sense anymore in this changing industry that we we're So...
00:15:45
Speaker
so Test out if someone's working and it's doing a really good job, test something else out. If it's doing bad, then test something else out. Don't just, just because it's going well doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. We're innovators.
00:15:58
Speaker
That's why we're in this industry is to continuously progressively add new things. I mean, AI for crying out loud is joining into our our ah into everything. So how do we incorporate, you know, I have a campaign that's working really well.
00:16:11
Speaker
How do I incorporate AI to make my job a little bit easier? I didn't cover AI to make my ad copy maybe a little bit you know better. um There's always things to test out. So I think that it's changing our mindset and making it a little bit differently. I think that'll push you to just get outside the boundaries of what's working and push hard.
00:16:32
Speaker
Great. Awesome. i love just because it's working doesn't mean it can't be better. I like that. And Susan, what you're doing is working and I see you continue to get better and better and better. And i'm excited for your upcoming talks, your upcoming strategies, everything you're doing on behalf of Search Labs partners you're doing. I just know ah phenomenal job. So I thank you for that. But now I'm going to put you really in the hot seats. This is the this is the most important questions. So this is why here's what I like to ask everyone I have on because, you know, more than you can chew, was like, I like to tie it to food. Oh,
Culinary Recommendation in Portsmouth
00:17:05
Speaker
gosh. Whether it's something in your hometown or it's something you've had in your travels, um is there a place you could name that you would say, listen, if you're in this city or in this town, this is a place you have to check out?
00:17:21
Speaker
Oh, my problem with is I probably spend 90% of my money eating it. ah So let's see.
00:17:32
Speaker
They're in my hometown. There's this restaurant, because love restaurants that not a lot people know about, because being in crowds is not my not my thing at all.
00:17:42
Speaker
But also the environment is is amazing. So there's this place called 5, 8 Degrees or something. like it doesn't have the It has the degree sign, which I think in itself is just a unique way for them to as a marketer I think that's cool so they did a good job um they do a combination of like an Asian cuisine with like a a Greek flair to it and there's this like tuna tartare dish and this like duck appetizer I always order a bunch of appetizers because if I order this one plate I'm gonna be trying to take a bite out of everyone else's plate at the table basically just you know
00:18:23
Speaker
Try everything out. But those are the two. It's like it. You know when you take a bite of something and it melts in your mouth? Oh, oh yes. And you just have to sit in the moment for a little bit because it's that good.
00:18:37
Speaker
So they have a tuna touch iron and sits on top of like this out of cucumber. Oh, man. See, now I'm hungry. little a hu it It's so good. So if you ever get a chance, it's in Somersworth, New Hampshire. Nope. It's in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
00:18:51
Speaker
Go there. Amazing atmosphere. you drink and you have it like cocktails, amazing cocktails to go with your food. But get the duck appetizer and get the to um the beef tartar or steak tartar.
00:19:06
Speaker
and So good. Sounds fantastic. And if I am ever up that way, that is definitely place I will go because that sounds really, really good. Well, thanks for that insight as well. See, your your your insights on ah local cuisine is just as as just as tailored and in-depth as your PPC.
00:19:23
Speaker
Susan Yen, thank you so much for carving out some time. I really appreciate you taking a bite off of more than we can chew. Thank you for having me so much. This is great. This is so much fun. Absolutely. Thank you very much, everyone. I'll catch you on the next episode of More Than You Can Chew.