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The Cards are on the Table | Key Issues in North America Wood Industry w/ Gary Sihota
7 Plays9 months ago
Gary Sihota (Director of Operations at Mid-South Engineering) joins Vadim Kovalev on the Wood World podcast to delve into the intricacies of the wood industry. From designing wood facilities to addressing key issues like mill closures, fiber supply, and sustainable forestry, Gary sheds light on the essential role of the forest industry in British Columbia. They also discuss labor concerns, forest management practices, and the importance of educating the public on why "wood is good." Gain insights into the challenges and potential of the wood product supply chain and the significance of maintaining healthy, managed forests. --- 🌟 About Koval We specialize in delivering high return and quality solutions to support the branding, business development, hiring, and training needs of people and businesses in the wood industry.🌲 Improving the lives of people in the wood industry globally 🌎 🔗 Connect with Us - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kovaldigital/ Listen to the Wood World Podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/5aC26P3QO2DKh7oM0EOGRU 🚀 Ready to Elevate Your Digital Presence? Schedule a call with our team and let’s make things happen! Visit https://kovaldigital.com to get started. #woodworld #timber #woodindustry #sawmillbusiness #businessmanagement #timberindustry #masstimber #hardwoods
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Transcript
Introduction and Gary's Background
00:00:00
Speaker
Today on the Wood World Podcast, we've got my friend Gary. Gary is an expert in the industry and Gary works up in British Columbia, Canada. And so today we'd love to hear from you, Gary, because you and I had several conversations. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and just sharing your thoughts. Can you please introduce yourself? Hey, Vadim, thanks for having me. um Yeah, I'm super excited about your podcast.
00:00:26
Speaker
um I'm an expert in designing wood facilities, ah engineering, sawmills and pellet plants and other ah wood processing facilities. um I've worked exclusively in the wood products industry for 14 years now.
00:00:43
Speaker
That's incredible. that's That's a substantial experience already, Gary. Look, um you and I had some conversations before the podcast, and you know my real curiosity, what spiked my curiosity is, I don't think there's any one person. I sure am not proclaiming to be like an expert in all things wood.
00:01:01
Speaker
But what I do see in our industry is a lot of experts that know something really deep and also a lot of us that see on the surface level a lot of issues or a lot of good things. So both sides good and bad. Gary, could you maybe first let's start with a little introduction. Just give us a little bit of context. What is it that you do? What have
Defining the 'Wood World'
00:01:20
Speaker
you built? Just give me some kind of flavor for how did you get to where you are today in your career.
00:01:25
Speaker
And then just to set the stage for the audience, guys, I'd really like to understand from Gary's perspective, you know, things that you're seeing in the industry, Gary, things that, you know, you are, you and I are aligning on a lot of topics. We know that what is good. We want to tell the world that what is good. And so, yeah yeah you know what, let's just jump into it. Give us a little bit more on the introduction, Gary.
00:01:48
Speaker
Yeah, a little bit more on introduction. So I started 14 years ago with Stolberg engineering um and really started off designing sawmills and pellet plants, ah nuts and bolts, ah you know, from small components and then working my way up through um into actually doing plant design and then project management. And then and now I run the office, the Richmond office ah for Mid South. Mid South had bought s Stolberg in 2019.
00:02:18
Speaker
um So that's kind of the the short and sweet kind of version of. of my background. ah Gary, look, because I've also been in this industry for some time, I kind of understand what you just said. But you know what? There's some people here that are tuning in that take the wood world the way I define it. I'm just coining this term wood world, right? yeah People think it's forestry, or people might think it's sawmilling, or pellet production. But actually, the wood world that I define is super broad. In fact,
00:02:50
Speaker
I mean, it's it's huge. There's millions of people involved that are creating value on, I would say, the wood product supply chain. And then also a lot of companies like yours that are supporting that supply chain. I mean, the basic question is, where in the wood world do you fit in?
Company's Role in the Industry
00:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, so we fit in definitely in the support side. So, you know, there's people out there doing logging and and setting up cuts and and putting you know, lobster mills. And what we do is we support that. um We support the wood products facility, something like, you know, how a sawmill
00:03:26
Speaker
um laying out a sawmill, designing the sawmill based on the log population, what's going to go through it and what the end products are. um that' That's our stuff. So we will take care of all the mechanical ah equipment. Anything that's vendor supplied by a larger OEM will help support it and integrate it into the actual mill. We'll do the electrical and the structural design. We'll do concrete.
00:03:56
Speaker
Those types of things. So that's, that's what, uh, that's what I'm
Promoting the Wood Industry
00:04:00
Speaker
all about. And that's, uh, that's the engineering and consulting part of the wood facilities, you know, for things like sawmills or, or planer mills or, um, pellet plants or whatever it is totally understood.
00:04:15
Speaker
Well, um Gary, I guess another reason why we connected more recently is I started posting about, you know what? It's time to tell the truth about our beautiful industry. And I guess my big message is simple. Wood is good. And we see this because you and I are in the weeds daily. Not a lot of people see it the way we see it. So help me understand what do you see in this industry? Why is wood good? And why are you in this industry still? and Just unpack that for me a little bit. Yeah, let me
Family History and Industry Opportunities
00:04:48
Speaker
give you a little background. So, ah you know, my parents are immigrants. My dad came here in 1972. He worked in the Sawmills ah for 28 years. um And then when I got out of university, ah I worked for Stolberg Engineering. Stolberg, I think, Stolberg Construction started in 1947. And then the engineering was a huge part of that company. um And so I think What people have to understand is that ah the I think the province was, most of the cities in the small towns are are made from the forest industry. The forest industry is is huge. um What is good, I like that saying. I think ah the the forest industry still plays a huge part in in British Columbia and our region too. There's obviously Vancouver has developed into
00:05:40
Speaker
multiple industries and and different sectors, but the backbone I think of the province is still that.
00:05:49
Speaker
Thank you. um What do you do on a daily basis? I mean, there's another part of this whole, I guess, movement. What I'm trying to do is encourage young people to see this industry as one that's thriving. it's There's a lot of opportunities. Do you see it that way? And can you kind of share maybe, what do you do on a daily basis? What kind of jobs?
00:06:13
Speaker
do you guys have at your company? What kind of, what can young people go and look up on Google? Like I want to become a such and such. I want to be like Gary. Yeah.
Daily Work and Industry Processes
00:06:21
Speaker
I think my office is quite, it's niche. I'll, I'll explain a little bit. I think first to answer the first part of your question, I think the wood industry is definitely something that's going to be here for a long time. It's, it's a great industry to be in. I think, you know, the people um are great. I think the the legacy, the the history is great. So those things I think are are it's what's going for it. um What I do is um there's a lot of engineering consulting firms, right? And they you know they might be in residential or they might be in in designing skyscraper, or whatever it is. What we do here is we we do all of the engineering and support for ah wood facilities. And so what I do on a day-to-day basis, like I told you, i was
00:07:08
Speaker
I'm a mechanical engineer by education and I used to design conveyors and conveying systems. And then later on we did a lot of plant design or I did a lot of plant design. And then project management is is one of the big things that we do here. um And that's all to do with the planning stage of capital projects for these these wood facilities. So whenever we have somebody doing a big upgrade or a brand new mill or whatever it is, modernizations, you know, they'll come to us and say, okay, we have the planning stage, this is this is what we intend to do. um We will come up with designs and most of it's drawings, right? Like the the deliverable again game there is is what you get at the end are issued for construction drawings and designs for whatever the mill output is gonna be.
00:08:05
Speaker
OK, so if I can help summarize for somebody who's watching and and doesn't know how a sawmill gets put together, let's imagine the sawmill, because you brought up sawmill, is a black box, right? Your input into this black box is what? Logs. Logs, yeah. And then the output is is? Is generally timbers and lumber. And so um all the processes in between are generally taken care of by an OEM company yeah that will design or multiple OEMs that design specific types of ah machinery. And then so, but to put all that machinery together and to like, you need all the disciplines, right? You need electrical, you need you need to support it with structural, um you know, there's buildings involved in the whole plant layout. So that that's what we take care of.
00:08:59
Speaker
And then just to go back into, let's say, sawmills, for example. So you've got logs coming in. um They're cut on a primary breakdown. They'll generally go through a secondary process um and then they'll go and be trimmed and sorted and stacked. um Go through another process generally, which is a drying process in the kilns, and then they'll go through a final process through a planar mill where they're planed and are kind of like shaved down into into finished pieces. And so that's in a nutshell, I think what we're trying to get at is for ah the layman, that's the the process from going from ah logs to lumber. I love it. And besides sawmills, what other types of mills can you or have you guys worked on? Yeah, we've worked on a lot of um plywood and veneer.
00:09:51
Speaker
So we've done those ones where they actually take a log and they will peel it, they peel it into a thin veneer and then in a plywood plant, they'll glue those and press those veners veneers together to make ply um and it's multi-ply. And so that's one of them. so here So I cut my teeth on pellet plants, which is ah another type of plant ah where um it takes ah different residuals from different sawmills or or wherever the the wood product facility is and or the bush from where the tree was cut up and then ah goes through a process and at the end product is a wood pellet um and then that wood pellet is used for power generation in place of coal. Gary something you're touching on I think but from somebody looking outside into our industry would you say that these plants as you design them and these like for example the pellet plant
00:10:49
Speaker
tree doesn't go to waste. As far as I've seen our industry, there's no like waste. Everything gets used. Can you unpack that just a little bit? I mean, like, yes, you make lumber. And then there's all these things like the shavings or the sawdust or the trims or whatever, what happens to all this? Is it is it thrown away or landfill? Or where does it go? Yeah, so that's, that's what we call ah residual material. And that's, that's all used up every every part of the tree is used somewhere. So You know, if it's the bark, sometimes that goes to a furnace and it's again used for code generation, power generation um or for heat. And then the the sawdust, the shavings, the chips or wherever it is, those things can go to either biomass or the chips can go to a pulp mill to make paper. So there's zero waste. There's no part of the tree that's actually wasted. All of it's used.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, I love it. I mean, that's that's what I hear. That's what I see when I go to, you know, factories and mills and wood products facilities across the globe. Well, If we're going to try to switch topics here for a little bit, like thank you for the context.
Challenges and Issues in the Wood Industry
00:12:00
Speaker
um That's what you do. But as you do what you do, what are you seeing as far as key issues? I mean, our industry, I feel like does a lot of good. And that's why my message to the general public is wood is good. I guess, first of all, do you agree with that premise that wood is good and then
00:12:20
Speaker
unpacked up for us. like What are the key issues today that are causing some division? Maybe not even inside of our industry, but higher level. Let's put the cards on the table. What are the key issues that our industry may be more regionally in BC or in Canada as a whole, or maybe even across North America and the globe? What are some of these key issues, if you can please share with me about the woodwork?
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah, so regionally, I think we've seen ah fiber supply issues and mill closures in BC. That's probably the biggest problem that we have. um and And because of that, there's been a flight to safety. And I think we've seen the majors move from BC to the southern United States. um I think the big third one is the misinformation and sustainability.
00:13:10
Speaker
and and around that what people think about it and what the attitudes are towards forestry. Got it. Well, can you share a little bit about what are the issues pointed to issues? And again, I'm not expecting to close the loop here and and propose a solution necessarily, but just help me understand and maybe our and audience to understand like these are really serious issues. And Gary, like,
00:13:36
Speaker
I don't take these lightly because, I mean, I honestly spent half of my July, you know, driving around in Canada and BC, the bulk of it. And it's so sad to me to go into rural communities and hear, you know, that my friends are really suffering and it and it saddens me. I mean, I've got to, I live in the US, but You know, is there anywhere how help me understand these things? Because my goal would be to just go find information. And I'm not saying I'm the expert. I'm saying that I'm going to go out there and try to find and get information and and but and publish that information as much as much as I can.
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think um in BC the big thing is that ah the AAC, the aacc the allow annual allowable cut has been reduced and it's been reduced to less than half. while I think the provincial government has a lot to do with it. um The stumpage fees is another big problem. I think it's the most ah expensive log to get into a sawmill anywhere in North America.
00:14:42
Speaker
um And then the the new thing that we just saw last week is the US tariffs on Canadian softwood. So there's a number of things that are playing into the region and as issues. um And I think what we've seen is there's been a flight to safety. um And we've seen the majors move down to the south.
00:15:04
Speaker
there's a bigger return on investment in the South. And so I could see why um there's there's a lot of companies moving down there. here' because we When you say majors, you're talking about companies like we just saw another press release from Canfor. They're shutting down another few sawmills. And it's, again, sad because those sawmills are in rural areas that basically drive the economics of a small town. Is that right?
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, we saw two. There was a can for plateau and can for Fort St. John, both closed. Stolberg actually designed ah the can for plateau mill ah in 2005. So if you're looking at 2005 and it's 2024, we didn't, we got 19 years out of that mill. um And in the South,
00:15:55
Speaker
I think you're looking at 20 and 30 year outlooks because you got, ah you know, the the government's friendlier. um You have a partner in the fiber supply and um yeah the cost to get a log into the mall into the mill is a lot less. And so, um you know, the the investment dollars are going to go where the opportunity cost is better and that's what we're seeing right now. It's a big issue and I think to I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think that something has to be done. There has to be better planning in the government that that allows, um you know, more companies to to stay here and and to um do business here in the wood world. Yeah. No,
First Nations and Forestry
00:16:40
Speaker
listen, I mean, we work with a lot of Canadian companies at Koval and yeah, it's definitely been saddens me to see that those those press releases and and, you know, things that I hear from the people I work with on a daily basis.
00:16:53
Speaker
um Um, but let's come, let's come back to that or let's keep going Gary. What, what other ones you mentioned? quite i kind if you get child Sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say we can come back to that, but like go back to the the big picture. Like what other key issues do you feel are at play right now and in North America? Well, I think what ties into that last thing is that the, the first nations, um, the indigenous people are, are also, um, they're going to play a huge role.
00:17:22
Speaker
um And they have I think there's gonna be a lot of partnerships and and that's part of the reconciliation here um And that new agreements will probably be set up um I'm sure that there's gonna be a different type of um Tenure and and logging agreements, I think which will probably lead to hopefully um a lot of ah Smaller sawmills and investments from from those communities and so I think out of something that's really bad, I think we're gonna get some good out of it. And, you know, we already saw after the, the just recently, camphor announced that their Mackenzie forest license is gonna go, but which has been sold to two indigenous bands. So I think there's gonna be a lot of change in that area too. Got it. I guess in the US, we probably call them different, but what are First Nations in BC?
Logging Practices: US vs. Canada
00:18:20
Speaker
ah They're the indigenous indigenous people of of Canada. and And so they're the... and i don't I don't know the exact term. I think First Nations, they used to be called Indians. and I know that's ah not the right term, um but historically, um I think they had agreements. And and so those agreements now, are they're being reconciled. And so they're going to have a huge role to play in in the forest industry.
00:18:48
Speaker
how does I don't know if you're familiar with this, but like how is logging different in Canada versus ah the US? s I heard some of this, but do you know much about it, or can you point me in the right direction? Who to go out? Generally, I think in the US, it's private ownership. I think they're owned by REITs, which are Real Estate to Investment Trusts.
00:19:10
Speaker
um And in in BC and in Canada, they're owned by the Crown. So um the government decides what the you know the stewardship and the forest tenures and and you know what the investment's gonna be and what the stumpage costs are. So ah there's a single ah single seller versus multiple sellers. And so that's the big difference.
00:19:35
Speaker
And when you said they reduced it, that's that's a fact that we can just go look up, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's been reduced almost in half. And the Council on Forest Industries has ah has the the data on that. It says the ah in 2020, the harvest fell to 35 million cubic meters, could be as low as 30 million this year. um And I think the original, I think four or five years ago was 80 million.
00:20:03
Speaker
So I mean, like, like high level in one sentence, I mean, it's a complex issue. But basically what I'm what I'm understanding from that and the way I interpret is basically if you're cutting fiber supply, you're basically choking the folks who need fiber as the input to their black box to make something of value. Absolutely. And then the second part of that is the fees that you're you're charging for that. And so um the the stumpage fees have are too high. That's part of the problem um in the in the United States, ah it's it's more free market because you have so many people or so many companies selling the logs. So there's there's an actual fairness there, right? Gary, help me understand. So if i if again, from a big picture perspective, if your raw material going into the black box, call a sawmill, is higher, then
00:20:58
Speaker
That means that and and we know raw materials are a big percentage of economics of a mill. At the output, that means the output, the products that are made, they're going to have to be priced higher. Right. But then because the output of mills in B.C. and the mills in U.S. all play in the global commodities market.
00:21:19
Speaker
The price
Economic and Labor Challenges
00:21:20
Speaker
is going to be the same. then yeah That makes it not so advantageous to be the guy who has to pay a lot more for input. I mean, I know if I'm here, but let me understand. No, you got it. And so because you've got to compete on the global market. um So you can't you're not going to be able to sell your your two by fours for more money and they they got to be in the same same dollar value. So really what it is is the profit gets squeezed for the saw millers in this area because the input costs are higher.
00:21:49
Speaker
Hmm. Understood. Well, I'll chase that one down. Um, maybe, maybe you can back, come back to it. If you have any ideas of, do you have any recommendations for folks that maybe I can go talk with, or if ideally, if I could get them on the podcast, who, who could speak in a very educated way, um, pro against. I want to hear all perspectives really in long format conversation. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people. Um, I mean,
00:22:18
Speaker
If you want to know the story, I'm not probably not the best guy to ask about how these things have happened or what the negotiations were with the government. But I think, um, Don Cain, you know, he's the CEO of Canfor, but he's, he's going to, he's retiring at the end of the year. I think he's a good guy to ask. Um, maybe after he retires, uh, Ray Ferris is another guy who's the CEO of, uh, or was the CEO of West Fraser. Um, so those.
00:22:47
Speaker
those two guys would probably be the right guys to um ask what the story was and figure out, um you know, what they think, what's what's their solutions for these things. sure sure no And I'm sure they would have some really valuable insights into, you know, how they'd like to see it. Right. Understood. Okay. Well, I'll try to follow that train of thought forward. What what other are, would you say are key issues right now that we touched on?
00:23:18
Speaker
um
00:23:22
Speaker
eight I think we touched on the the major ones. was there Was there something that you had in mind that that you remember from our ah previous chat? Well, it seems to me that it comes up a lot in conversations. Maybe I could share a couple that feel come to mind, like labor. I mean, to run a factory, yes, it's automated the way you guys design them.
00:23:43
Speaker
the ways that the way that I see, you know, sawmills and mills just overall are getting more automated. I mean, that's maybe why I relate to you is my background is engineering. And so my job was to help with sawmill automation with 3d scanning, etc. But still, you need people. And I believe what I'm hearing what I'm seeing is labor still one of those hot topics. I think getting reliable labor probably is or getting the skilled labor. But I think um right now, I think the bigger issue with with the sawmills closing is probably um is probably getting enough work for the people that we already have. So i you know that's that's my concern, right? My concern, the big thing that kind of hurts me is, like I told you, when when we started, you know my family, ah my father was in the sawmill industry for for a very long time.
00:24:41
Speaker
And, you know, you think about some of the families that are up north and when ah when a mill closed down, there's, you you know, 500 people laid off. I think that's the ah bigger problem, right? um So where do those people go and where do they fit in? You know, what happens to those communities? You know, they're really small communities, so they're super effective. I think that's a huge thing. Well, I mean, I see your perspective, you know, I was a guy from Canada, but like in the US, I feel like still I'm hearing that labor, people want skilled labor and such. So maybe there's, maybe there's a gap in an opportunity, but then it's like people are literally living with their, with their families and established in these communities. Like it's not like that easy to like pick up and move to a whole different country, et cetera. So that's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's very tough. Very tough. Um, other topics, like just buzzwords that, you know, people like throw around, but I feel like,
00:25:36
Speaker
I really want to go chase down. Some of those are like things like climate change or trees are, you know, are good, which is true. But then like people say, don't, don't cut those trees or, you know, when a tree is cut, it's a negative thing. And I don't know, man, I, I get it that like some places somewhere there could be bad players, but from what I've seen in North America, like There, there's a lot of really good people doing a lot of good things with wood. And it just kind of sad to me that, you know, it feels that when I go to association meetings and, um, you know, talk to people in our industry, like we understand that wood is good, but how do we help get the message out that what is good and should be consumed by consumers that drive the demand for, you know, all the different things? What are, what are trees used for? I guess at the end of the day, Gary, like, and then help me understand.
00:26:37
Speaker
How do I go chase this down and and share the message that we originally agreed to that what is good?
Storytelling and Public Education
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, you know i think I think you're the right guy. like you know I think storytelling is really important. I think um packaging it properly um you know for the everyday people is important. and I think you're probably the right guy that does that. um And I think ah the the big story that needs to be told is like,
00:27:06
Speaker
the the forest cycle or, you know, if you package it in the carbon cycle, um that's huge. That's a huge thing. I don't think a lot of people understand that. And I think they should probably teach it in schools. But I think people really need to understand that, you you know, when there's the forest cycle starts when the the trees grow, right? The trees grow and they're bringing in a ton of carbon, they're carbon dioxide. So they're they're pulling it all in.
00:27:32
Speaker
um Those trees mature, you know that it becomes a a forest, there's a canopy. Once that that matures, it hits that high spot and then beyond that, the forest becomes decadent, right?
00:27:47
Speaker
Um, once it's decadent, you, it starts to decay and you get, uh, you know, it, something replenishes. There's always going to be a cycle that replenishes. So yeah it either decays and there's tons of insects that are formed. There's, um, you know, fires, huge fires that are happening. That's one of the other big issues that I should have brought up earlier. Um, the fires, the forest fires that are happening now are huge. There's too much fuel in the forest. Um, so that's, that's another thing, right? Um, we gotta, we gotta.
00:28:16
Speaker
If we want to manage the fires, we're going to manage the forest. um So one of the things that that plays right into that is is harvesting those trees once they get to that that top peak before they start to decay, or when they start to decay, um so that you know the the forest is staying really healthy. um So what you do is you can pull out those logs and and you know, when you're making houses or you're making furniture or whatever it is, and and you put that that wood to use, it's stored. It's storing that carbon into into those products. um and And before, you know, that carbon dioxide goes back into the environment, um it's ah it's actually going to be used somewhere. And that's where the biomass stuff comes in, where I hear a lot of people saying, oh, why would we use this? And, you know, I think people have to understand that
00:29:08
Speaker
that carbon dioxide or whatever that carbon was, is going back to the environment anyways. And it's worse if it if it goes up in a fire. So the best is if you can use it um and and capture all that that carbon and different using different systems and technologies um on the emission side when you're power generating. right And so um I think if if that story is told really well,
00:29:34
Speaker
um you know better than the way I told it. But, you know, if you told it and, you know, you did it with but the right graphics and the and the right kind of storyline and explained it, I think um you would hit that that broader audience, right? Like you'd you'd get to um all of the moms, right? Like the moms and the dads out there, right, that are teaching their kids. Are they teaching them the right things? is it Or are they teaching them, hey, you know, we want to,
00:30:05
Speaker
Deforestation is bad, which is true. Deforestation is bad. um Environmentalism is good. But you know if they're if they're misinformed and don't have it quite right, um that's where I think you know they don't quite understand that that the wood products um industry is helping the forest industry. It's all one, right? it It helps it together. So that's a great story to tell. And I think that's it that would be a good one. That kind of describes the issues.
00:30:34
Speaker
um that you're talking about. Gary, I absolutely agree. I mean, I don't, I was recently at the conference and someone mentioned like this, it's, it's a sunrise industry and I and i love that. And also what you just mentioned, it's, it's one that unifies. I mean, look, dude, like, I mean, it absolutely unifies people. I go across the globe.
00:30:54
Speaker
to talk to people about wood and I guess it kind of makes me like a wood nut at this point like people are like okay here's this guy who's all bent up on wood but like truly man like it align it unites people it aligns people like the people who are you know pro forests and there's groups all over that are I'm learning about more and more that are, you know, for whatever reason, anti-wood. And I want to have long-form conversations with him, Gary. Like, I want those people to approach and let's have a civil, reasonable, long-form conversation. Explain your point of view. You're trying to preserve habitats for the critters in the woods. Beautiful. We do too. But like fundamentally, there's
00:31:40
Speaker
ah There's kind of a breakdown in that. Is it education? Is it misinformation? What is it? that And I want to go chase it down.
Motives Behind Protests and Sustainable Models
00:31:48
Speaker
I'd love to do that. I mean, yeah we can have it all, right? like we can have We can have the critters in the forest. We can have healthy forests. ah We can have working forests. We can make sure everything is is good. um I think a lot of times um misinformation is is there. And I think um sometimes, like you had mentioned, some of the the protesters, there We don't know how they're fun. Like we don't know what they're after. What are they, you know, they if they're if they're against wood, what are they for, right? And so I think their motives, some of the motives have to be questioned. um I think there's some really good models. I think there's ah the plantations in and in the South and the Southern US, um the, the yeah
00:32:34
Speaker
um
00:32:37
Speaker
sorry. I, uh, I lost my train of thought there. Well, you're talking about the misinformation and plantations of Southern yellow pine in the South. That's what I was trying to get. at Yeah. So the, the plantations of the Southern yellow pine in the, in the South, um, are a good example of, of managed forest, right? Um, and so they harvest those and and that's, that's the right way to do it. Um,
00:33:01
Speaker
And they also do that in Europe. And so those are some some key things that we can look at and say, how have they done it? And then what do we want to do up here or in different areas? How do you want to to manage those forests and see the success and in how they've done it and you know what the environment looks like there? And so, um yeah, i think I think those would be good examples to point to.
00:33:26
Speaker
There's a lot of issues that are happening in the wood world as we know it. We touched on some of those. My goal is to continue asking the hard questions and try to really go into those areas and understand for myself, I'm a super curious kind of guy and understand like what is happening, you know, like with the topics we we touched on. um And I'm literally going to be traveling to various events and and trade shows and Expose uh talking to people who own sawmills and forest lands people who sell forest lands in the south and the pacific northwest So i'm literally going in very in many different too many different people in places across north america Um, i'm a really curious kind of guy, but if you had an opportunity to ask You know the guys in the southern in the southern yellow pine Market, what what kind of questions or what kind of things can I? ask them
00:34:24
Speaker
or show so that people that are outside of our industry can start really getting a sense of, well, what's actually happening inside? What can I show? What can I ask? Any any thoughts or suggestions there, Gary?
00:34:36
Speaker
um I think a
Podcast Mission and Future Exploration
00:34:38
Speaker
good story is how does it affect, how is the changing market affecting you as a sawmiller? um What's different than it was 10 years ago? How is it affecting your workers? um has Has the wood industry, ah has the improvements down there affected the families and the people and and how has that growth come? um Those are, that's what I would want to know.
00:35:05
Speaker
um I think also, Vadim, you were talked about, um I saw your your video of when you went to Africa, and so something along those lines of how just having um like a a sawmill or or having a group of people come together or how they came together um to to produce ah these products forest products, um I think that is a great story to to get after.
00:35:38
Speaker
um And I'd like to know kind of even for support industries like like ourselves. um Last time I went to ah SFPA, I talked to somebody who said, oh, I just love the the forest products industry because because I used to sell these sensors or whatever it was. and And he said, you know, but now I got this industry and and he's got a client he doesn't sell anywhere else. He only sells in this market now.
00:36:03
Speaker
um and And so some of those stories would be really nice to to hear about of how, um you know, this industry is taking care of itself, right, and how that integrates with with new people and with the people that were here. um Southern Yellow Pine is definitely kind of it's it's expanded so much it's everywhere and so uh i know that's going to have a ah huge huge net positive effect for all of the people in that in those regions um so those stories would be interesting to hear i love it thank you thank you and i'm i'm all about it man um i don't know if i
00:36:42
Speaker
Told you, yeah, but the Wood World podcast, we we aren't sponsored and I'm literally following my own curiosity. So, um you know, we as a business make money in doing projects at Covel supporting the industry. But when we're out there, when I'm out there and doing things like this, this is genuinely me trying to scratch that curiosity itch for myself. And that's why I ask you to come on and share kind of your thoughts.
00:37:08
Speaker
I genuinely believe in this industry. I believe there's a lot of good it does. And I believe wood is good, which is the message here and want to chase after these stories and try to understand deeper, um, you know, all the intricacies of not just saw milling, but what I call the wood world is is quite a bit broader than that. I think, man, you're doing the right thing. Uh, I want to see your stories through the lens. I like it. Um, I think you're the right guy to do it. Uh, and I wish you all the best.
00:37:38
Speaker
Thank you, Gary. Thank you so much for taking some time. I'm glad that we were able to put together this podcast. I didn't give you much notice. We just talked last week and I felt your passion and excitement about everything that's happening in our industry. And I'm like, man, this is what I'm doing already. So come on and kind of share some thoughts. Thanks for highlighting some key issues. And actually now I'm and so i'm inspired to go chase after those and you know try to get some more attention to ask the right people the right the right questions and and get some attention on some of these hot issues. get to the man Thank you. Thank you. gary