Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Spherecast presented by Atlas, the podcast where innovation meets insight, highlighting the people whose ideas are shaping our world. I'm your host, Jamie Myers, bringing you conversations that uncover fresh perspectives and highlight the people turning bold thoughts into real impact.
Speaker: We'll take a deeper dive into what happens on the ground and behind the scenes with those who work to make your life better as they help create thriving cities and healthy communities. So whether you'll be tuning in from work or home or stuck in traffic, wondering what can be done to improve the natural environment or built infrastructure that gets you from here to there, you've come to the right place.
Speaker: On today's episode, we're taking a closer look at what it means to lead differently and how thinking beyond the conventional can open the door to new leadership in transportation.
Speaker: We're joined by Kara Swanson, Vice President and Transportation Environmental Market Lead here at Atlas. With nearly 25 years of experience, Kara's led complex environmental and transportation projects from the mountains of Colorado to the shores of Guam and Honolulu.
Speaker: But what truly sets her apart isn't just the scope of her work. It's the way she leads, connects, and challenges the norm. As we look ahead to the 2025 WTS International Conference in Toronto, where this year's theme is Mobility plus Momentum.
Speaker: we're spotlighting one of the anticipated panels, Unleashing Superpowers, a conversation exploring the unique strengths and very real challenges faced by neurodivergent women in the workplace.
Speaker: Cara is one of the voices on that panel. And in this episode, she shares what it takes to succeed in spaces that weren't always designed with different thinkers in mind. Cara, welcome to the show.
Speaker: Hi, thanks. Glad to be here. We are so excited to have you today. All right, we're going jump right in and get into your path into transportation. So let's just start at the beginning.
Speaker: What first drew you to transportation? Was it planned or did you just stumble into the field? Oh, definitely not planned at all. um I definitely stumbled into it. So I got my um undergrad degree in environmental science.
Speaker: Thought I was going to be wearing Birkenstocks and trudging around wetlands my entire career. um I got very bored with that very quickly um because they would send me out by myself. um And so I went back and got my master's degree in environmental policy, took one class on the National Environmental Policy Act.
Speaker: um And decided it was time for me to leave the Midwest. um And so while I was working on my degree, I had a and a friend in Denver who said, hey, you know, I think my company's hiring um and they might need an environmental person.
Speaker: I said, great. I interviewed. They said, great. You took one class. You're clearly qualified. Clearly. Yeah. Not at all. um And they hired me and it was it was a transportation engineering firm here in Denver. And I just kind of got tossed into the deep end. um And it's and here I've stayed, you know, for for a couple of decades now.
Speaker: Clearly, clearly you weighed in the deep end very, very well. So that sounds like a major stumble into it. So was there ever a time early on where you kind of questioned whether this was the right industry for you? And what kept you going?
Speaker: Absolutely. um Especially when i I was first into transportation, when I moved to Dunder in 2006, I think it really had to do with you know, the um my supervisor and some other senior folks in the office that I just, it didn't feel right. I didn't feel supported.
Speaker: um i didn't know what the industry really meant. um I didn't know what opportunities there were or things that I, you know, where I could kind of harness my strengths. I didn't even know what my strengths were at the time.
Speaker: um So there was there was a time I was all set to become a science teacher, middle school science teacher. um I was this close to to going back to school. um And at the time it was, well, that's going to be more work. i'm going to have to go back to school. Do I really want to do that?
Speaker: And then, you know, as I was deciding those things, a new woman started at the company and she trusted in me, got to know me um and said, hey, you know, i I have this position in Hawaii. I'm going to be moving there.
Speaker: um If you want to, if you're interested, you know, let me know. And so she was the first person, I think, to really see more in me than other people did or right that I saw in myself. And so it was it was finding that person. And then throughout my career since then, finding those people that would advocate for me, that would support me. um And I just kind of fell in love with transportation, which never, ever thought I would say that. um And so here here I am. um I'm glad I stuck with it.
Speaker: But it was it was a rough road at the beginning. I love that, finding your person. You touched a little bit on not knowing your strengths early on in your career. So your upcoming panel really is gonna focus on the unique strengths that neurodivergent individuals bring to their work.
Speaker: Now that it's been a while, what's one of yours? um So I actually have ADHD. I was technically diagnosed in high school, um but it's only been the last few years that I'm realizing all of all of the different traits that can be associated with ADHD.
Speaker: And these are things that i've always I've always been told that, you know, you need to change how you do this or you need to change this about yourself or, you know, you're not doing what you should be doing. um And starting to look at those traits as more of a strength and how to how to refocus those things.
Speaker: um And one of those is hyper focus, which is a huge trait of folks with ADHD. um When I am interested in something, whether it be, you know, my obsession with the Denver Nuggets or pop culture or, you know,
Speaker: um Any of the environmental resources um that would go into a to a NEPA document, when I'm interested in that, I am all in. um Also, if I have an immediate deadline, which another thing with ADHD is kind of procrastination because that pressure...
Speaker: Kicks in that hyper focus. um It's a misconception that people with ADHD can't pay attention at all, which is not true. um Again, when there's when there's a deadline or there's something you're really interested in you can block everything out um and really focus in on on those things.
Speaker: Love that. I can absolutely see how hyper-focus um definitely lend lends itself to be more of a strength and even a superpower when you need. So transportation industry, there's always deadlines.
Speaker: Lots of pressure there. Can you tell us about a moment or a project where that particular strength came into play? Yes. um And it's actually, it's happened a lot over the years. um So my previous company, my role was half project work and half business development. And so working on proposals, the strategy part of it, all of that. And same thing at Atlas now, you know, that the strategy, those proposals, those immediate deadlines, those...
Speaker: You know, everybody is super busy. And so, you know, just recently we had a proposal where I wasn't as familiar with the client, but I was leading the overall proposal process. We had some great technical folks.
Speaker: um But me having to to dig in and learn as much as I could about what the project was about the client to help. to help with that big picture, what are we selling? How are we doing this?
Speaker: um And, you know, spending just kind of going down that rabbit hole, spending a couple hours learning as much as I possibly could, because like we have to win this. We've got to turn in a good proposal.
Speaker: um And so being able to dial in when I need to, um to really help, you know, to help sell Alice and to help tell highlight what we're what we're going after. So I love that.
Speaker: Okay, so looking at that, how do you think traits like pattern recognition, creativity, or that hyper-focus challenge the traditional approaches to planning or problem solving?
Speaker: um So I think I'm a very visual person. um This is where the creativity kicks in. I can see things in my head about how things could be presented or laid out in a proposal or ah report or anything like that.
Speaker: um My brain just kind of pieces together topics and thoughts and I can i can see how these things fit together. um And so being able to leverage that and and approach things differently,
Speaker: um Like we don't just have to write pages and pages of text. Hey, we could do this visually. We could turn this into, you know, something something else that is more graphic or more, you know, a better way to present material.
Speaker: um And i think I think hand in hand with that, you know, I'll mention the hyper focus again. something I've been able to harness for good. um i function so much better under pressure. i am great in an urgent situation, emergency. I will step in, i will take charge.
Speaker: um oh So i think I think using those traits, you know whether we're chasing a project or we're trying to deliver a project, um bringing in those different kinds of traits that inhale against the kind of traditional way of doing things um has definitely helped.
Speaker: I love that. I love that. I love being able to leverage those differences and seeing things visually for you where someone else might see more in text lends itself to a more well-rounded proposal. I love that. Okay, so looking at navigating systems and, you know, really shifting culture, we know that strength doesn't always mean ease.
Speaker: So um there's bound to be barriers. You know, what kind of barriers have you faced as a neurodivergent woman in this field? So I think... Number one is the lack of awareness, um both on my part and and the people around me, whether it's you know direct colleagues or supervisors.
Speaker: um I think it it is changing, thank goodness. um Thinking there were things about myself that I had to change in order to fit into this industry or having a supervisor that says, no, you can't do that. You have to do things this way. You have to think this way. You have to go sit in your office for hours and...
Speaker: read a 300 page report. um You know, i I think those things are, they are changing. um but But that lack of awareness, I think it's it's having people be more open to um understanding that not everyone functions in the same way.
Speaker: And i I would love to go back and give my my younger self starting out in this industry a hug, you know, and say, fine, Work harder to find people, find people who will support you. And if something isn't working, leave.
Speaker: You know, it's you don't have to suffer through some of these things. um It's it's OK to try a different job. It's OK to, you know, go explore the industry and figure out where else you may fit.
Speaker: Absolutely. And I think as the conversation gets louder and more prevalent and platforms like the panel that you're going to be featured on for WTS presents opportunities to share that, ah it sort of lifts the veil on what people think neurodivergence is or even ADHD is and lets you shine in some of those areas to show what those strengths really are.
Speaker: So you've had you've navigated a lot. You've had a dynamic career. what What has really helped you in those moments? Do you have any strategies or support systems or even just internal mindset shifts that you sort of rely on um you know during those difficult times?
Speaker: Yeah. So initially um it was it was finding a company where the women in the Denver office really provided me kind of the freedom to dabble in things and discover what I really enjoyed and was good at.
Speaker: I will forever be thankful for that ah so because that that allowed me to go, oh, I have strengths like these aren't bad things. I can I can do something with those. um Currently, I'm surrounded by see a senior management team at Atlas that I can just be myself with. They trust me to do my job, do it well, will give me feedback, which I need.
Speaker: Sometimes I need to go back on the right path. um And I think... I think those are those are the type of things that help me and have helped me over the years, but also simple, really simple things.
Speaker: Using email to communicate. You know, I process what I hear a little slower, like I need to take a minute. And, you know, it's another thing with ADHD, the auditory processing. So I love to communicate over text or email. I prefer that.
Speaker: um Again, something so simple, but having an electronic to-do list, a Word document, I can't lose it. It's always on my computer, ah side notebook.
Speaker: um You know, being able to cross things out and delete them. Like, it again, so simple, but only in the last five years did I start doing that. um Another thing, you know, was a podcast I discovered a friend had recommended to me, and it's about...
Speaker: Changing your thoughts. And it's so, you know, one of the things with ADHD is rejection sensitivity to seporia. And what that means is when we get feedback, or, you know, somebody says something to us, it, it cuts deeper than most.
Speaker: um It it's hard to take constructive feedback sometimes um and understand that it's coming from a good place and you just hear it as negative. This is wrong with you. This is, you know, this person is saying this because they don't like you.
Speaker: um And that's gotten in my way a lot over the years. It's, you know, how I reacted to that. Not great. um And I own that. And I think, this This podcast, though, like having a circumstance where somebody is giving you feedback. What's your immediate thought about that? Kind of retraining your brain on how the thoughts that you have about different circumstances, because those then your thoughts cause your feelings.
Speaker: Absolutely. Act a certain way. um And so all these all these little things, the more I read about ADHD, the more I learn about it. um The more I can explore different tools and different ways to.
Speaker: not retrain my brain, but adapt, adapt to how I react to things, adapt how I communicate with folks. So. I love that. I love that. And sharing on these platforms only gives an opportunity for other folks who might be experiencing the exact same thing to look at avenues or strategies that can potentially, um, potentially help them, which I think is just fantastic. Um,
Speaker: one thing Never underestimate that the power of a good therapist or coach or, you know, depending on what your neurodiversity may be. There are there are people that that it is their job to, you know, and they are training to be able to give you those tools and techniques.
Speaker: So as far as this at transportation industry goes, so if you could change one thing about how the transportation industry supports neurodivergent professionals, what would that be?
Speaker: more understanding that it exists. um i think I think it's actually just, You can apply this to anyone, neurodiverse or not. Understand that there are different ways of thinking and having and processing information and communicating, whether the folks are neurodiverse or not or different background or whatever it is.
Speaker: um Getting to know those folks and understanding it's not a one-size-fits-all approach. We work with a lot of engineers. yeah and and And it's that very... not all engineers, obviously, but, you know, that linear way of thinking and it's black and white. And I've had to I've had to you know, get people to understand that it can't be a one size fits all approach to help people communicate how they receive feedback, how they complete their work.
Speaker: um Again, this applies to everyone, not just neurodiverse individuals. So I think people, you know, especially folks in senior leadership positions, having those conversations with your employees, um this could apply to any industry too. It's not just transportation, um but getting it getting to know the folks you work with and that work for you,
Speaker: um to understand how they best communicate and receive feedback and all of those things. So true. um And I think it's about showing up, right? Showing up for your different employees, for your different colleagues, and giving them the information and the things that they need to work and succeed in the way that they best respond to.
Speaker: I once had a class that said, um if the golden rule is treat others how you want to be treated, the platinum rule must be treat others how they want to be treated. And I try to apply that same thing ah when working with our marketing communications team here at Atlas.
Speaker: So I love it. Golden, golden. Okay, so before we let you go, we have to get some advice and some insights and really talk about the power of showing up here. um What would you say to someone who feels like, you know, they just don't quite fit in into this transportation world, especially someone who's neurodivergent Yeah, um find an advocate.
Speaker: So find find somebody in your place of employment that has your back, that truly knows you and can see what you can do. um that That to me is huge. And I didn't have that early in my career. I had a lot of you're doing this wrong type folks around me.
Speaker: um And so once I actually found that advocate and have continued to find them over my career, it's been huge. um Even just, you know, even outside of your place of employment, find a mentor, someone who can help you understand your strengths and and find your voice.
Speaker: I think that's why WTS is so, so great um for both men and women. You know, you can you can find folks there that, you know, range from planning through construction.
Speaker: um understanding that you could try business development, you could try, you know, just project work. um WTS Colorado here, um actually, I'm the one of the co-chairs of the Executive Advisory Committee.
Speaker: And the intent of that is to, we've got about 25 senior ex and executive level folks that have said, hey, we want to be available if any any WTS member in Colorado has something they want to bounce off of us. Are you interviewing for a job in the public sector?
Speaker: um So I think it's, I'm hoping that, you know, we can get some traction with the Executive Advisory Committee here um and be be able to help help folks. I love that. I love that.
Speaker: And it's all about finding that advocate or that sponsor, someone that could support you where you are in your journey, I think is critical and key. um And I love that platforms like Women's Transportation Seminar, WTS, really provides that ah that avenue and that opportunity for others.
Speaker: So we're headed into a lot of different ah areas in the transportation industry right now. What excites you most about where this industry is heading? So I think and think we're really starting to see people having conversations about about topics that have typically been ignored or brushed over in the past. And this can range from, you know, the types of project projects we're doing, whether it's you know, road maintenance in rural areas or providing transit for for veterans um to get to hospital appointments, you know, that's that's a big concern too. But we're starting to see, um you know, I think people coming together across the board, whether it's, you know, from the planning side, construction, are we looking at multimodal? Are we looking at capacity projects?
Speaker: Kind of banding together and saying, hey, where is our money best spent? How are we most going to help people? Because really, when it gets down to it, that's what transportation is all about. um You don't get groceries without transportation. You know, the you can't get a lot of goods. You can't get medical support. You can't get care if you don't have a good transportation system, whether that is transit, whether that is just a reliable road um that isn't clogged with traffic.
Speaker: um I think all of those things kind of layered together. i i have high hopes for where the industry is heading. um But I think you're really seeing the industry as a whole come together and say, we need to do this. We need to be thoughtful about the projects we're doing and how we're implementing things to provide that safe and reliable transportation for folks.
Speaker: I love that. I love that. It's all about keeping you connected, right, to what matters most. I love that. Well, WTS is just around the corner, and I know you're excited. Toronto is going to be cold, I'm sure.
Speaker: But what can people expect from your panel? Like, why is this the right moment for this conversation? For me, the biggest takeaway, even just in the conversations I've been having with them, is to hear how different all of our stories are.
Speaker: um It's not a one-set-all approach to how ah we approach our our jobs and how you know how people work with us and communicate with us. um So i think I think it'll be great to hear everyone's stories.
Speaker: um And I'm excited. I'm excited to be with this group of women. I'm excited. And it's going to be a fascinating talk. So Cara, with that, will we give you back your time? Thank you so much for sharing your story with us and for reminding us the different ways of thinking aren't just valid. They're really powerful.
Speaker: You know, it's conversations like this that help push our industry forward and make space for new voices and perspectives to lead. So if you guys are heading to the WTS International Conference in Toronto, you don't want to miss Kara on the panel, unleashing superpowers, the unique strengths and challenges of neurodivergent women in the workplace.
Speaker: And if this episode resonated with you, don't keep it to yourself, share it start the conversation. Let's continue building an industry that works better for everyone. Thanks for tuning in. Be sure to subscribe, leave us a review and follow along as we continue spotlighting the voices shaping the future of transportation and infrastructure.
Speaker: Until next time, keep thinking differently and keep moving forward.
