Transcript
Speaker: ah If you were to die at home, they can keep you at home as long as you're on ice, refrigeration, dry ice, counts air conditioner turned all the way down, and have a service within a few days, and then transport you to where you're going to be buried or however your disposition is going to be.
Speaker: That's fully acceptable without funeral director involvement. Funeral Director
Speaker: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast. I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney aka the Glam Reaper and on today's episode i would like to welcome the lovely Fawn, what a beautiful name, from Glendale Memorial Nature Preserve. That is quite a mouthful but I got it in the end. Fawn, welcome to the show. How are you my love?
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me. We are a big fan of your podcast. So I'm glad to be here. This makes me so happy. What a lovely way to start. Well, thank you. Imagine if you started with, we hate your podcast. You were in the wrong place if that's how you started. Get off the podcast.
Speaker: Fawn, your name is just so beautiful. Like it's just such a lovely, lovely name. It really is. And it actually, I've never met a person that it more suits. Honestly, we have we were well, we were supposed to meet at Doolapalooza. She did a gorgeous interview with the lovely Gabrielle from Greenwood Cemetery, who was there on on our behalf. So tell us a little bit about what you do.
Speaker: So I do a lot of things around here I wear many hats. Primarily, i am a resident caretaker. i guess that kind of sums it up. um i am I'm on the board of directors for the nature preserve here. And what we do is green burial.
Speaker: We were the second green burial to open in the U.S. actually in the early 2000s. Yeah. And now we looked it up, Doran, one of the last podcasts we were on, and it was there's over 400 green burials now between U.S. and Canada. So that is absolutely to go from number two to now seeing 400. That is so phenomenal. I'm so glad that green burial is accessible to so many of our population now.
Speaker: Wait, so you were the second? we it was 2002 or I always the two dates. In years, we now have green burial space yes you It's phenomenal. I am a big advocate for just alternative disposition and death care in general. So you see it expanding is phenomenal.
Speaker: It's in I mean, it shows to the the want as well, the need that's out there that people, you know, people aren't setting these up to go out of business. So there's clearly a demand for it, which is people are dying to meet us.
Speaker: Oh, God, the dad jokes have started already. Oh, dear. oh my God. That's too funny. Now tell, OK, I'm pretty confident most of my listeners at this stage are in season six. Know who and we've a mixture of funeral professionals and then, you know, regular people like me before I got into this business. But if you can just remind us or give us because it is open to interpretation, I feel like.
Speaker: Give us your version of Green Burial. What does that mean to you guys? So for us here Glendale Nature Preserve, that is a body decomposing in the ground, naturally how it's designed to do. We're organic material. We're meant to decompose. And that's what we're doing here. We're also a nature preserve. So the bodies that get buried here provide nutrients for the the native habitat around us as well. So we're devoted to maintaining and restoring Florida habitats.
Speaker: What we do is no caskets with heavy metals, no vaults. A casket's not even needed if you don't want one. So you can be buried in a king-sized quilt or blanket. um We do offer caskets from a local casket tier here in town that does wooden caskets. Uh, that's a hundred percent biodegradable, but most people just do a shroud, which is made from um cotton or natural fibers. And we bury three and a half feet deep so that you're in the aerobic soil so that the air, the microbes, the fungus can all get to you a lot quicker and be able to provide nutrients for all around you.
Speaker: hi So that's that's excellent. Thank you very much for that explanation. m And so what about how do you feel about people who because I know in New York State where we're kind of based between New York, D.C. and Florida. And I know and we're fresh to kind D.C. I'm fresh to Florida pretty much. But I know in New York and people often have to travel quite a distance to get to a green burial site. And how how do you feel about that? I mean, obviously, that's, you know, the carbon footprint and stuff like that. So that's an interesting conversation. You know how and I know that comes up with terramation as well. You know, we're flying in the alfalfa and seeds and things like that. So what's your thoughts on that, if if if any?
Speaker: So thankfully, with the expansion of marine burial and alternative disposition in general, we have more facilities. So getting to a facility closest to you is becoming a lot more accessible than it ever has been. I think in Florida, we now have four.
Speaker: Three of them are down south and we're the only one up north. But you don't have to travel that far to find a green burial now, whether that be with us or another facility. Now, we do accept bodies from out of state. and There's...
Speaker: Three states, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Alabama that require embalming for transportation. However, there is a get around if the family's doing the transportation themselves and you file all the correct paperwork.
Speaker: So there' then you can, if you're not using a funeral facility or so or and a transportation service, there is a little bit of a get around. There's some wiggle room. You got to fight for a little bit for it. and I know some airlines will also transport without embalming.
Speaker: You just got to check. I'm not 100% sure which ones do it off the top my head, but some places do allow transportation. transport without embalming. But for the most part, if you're doing it yourself, it's fine. But thankfully, we don't have to go that far anymore find it. Yeah.
Speaker: That is so interesting in and of itself because, you know, in the U.S., and I've often talked about this, the most ironic thing about the United States is that it's called the United States of America, when every state is so different in what it in what it accepts, doesn't accept, allow you know, all the different rules and regulations. So because a lot of states don't realize that you are a lot. Sorry, a lot of people don't realize that state by state you can transport the body you can't you know and then sometimes they think oh the funeral home is trying to scam me um because you know my death doula told me i can transport the body myself whereas funeral directors like i promise you i'm not trying to scam you this is the law like it you know so they're the states that surround you they do allow the body to be transported by family
Speaker: All except for Alabama is the only one that but connects with us that's going to give you some problems when it comes to transportation. kids are one of those requires embalming states. and But even if we could...
Speaker: drive around Alabama to get to us too that's acceptable uh yeah why otherwise you know home funerals are acceptable in every state as well you can have home funerals and taking care of your deceased loved ones yourself it's that's becoming more popular as well okay and in that in that particular instance is there a need for a funeral director at all then in the state of Florida no I can tell you for a fact in the state of Florida, no funeral director is required. Other states, I can't say 100 percent. I think Louisiana requires a funeral director for burial.
Speaker: But in Florida, as long as a family member or a designated representative claims that they are acting as the funeral director, that's good enough. As long as you file all the correct paperwork, you obtain a death certificate, you get the but a burial transit permit, which can be all found on our website under forms tab. We have quick and easy PDF pamphlets ready to go they're You can print them off. You can view them on the Internet. But it's step-by-step guide on how to obtain all this paperwork.
Speaker: And then you can just do it all yourself, 100%.
Speaker: That's amazing. Wow. I didn't actually know. I mean, I'm i'm new to new or New York. I'm new to Florida State. And so which I'm actually in the process of redoing my will and my, you know, all my different documents and things.
Speaker: um But I didn't realize that actually. Honestly, I never questioned not using a funeral director because even I feel even for home burials, um I personally would want to have an expert with me. um And to me, that's what funeral directors are. Right. Is, you know, and I feel like honestly, they need to pivot their marketing of themselves to be more of consultants as opposed to, you know, what but where they're currently at. and But I guess... Okay, so in the state of Florida, so in the state of florida which I currently reside, and i ah my friend could could come from a different state and pick me up and bring me... If you...
Speaker: We're to die at home. They can keep you at home as long as you're on ice, refrigeration, dry ice, o air conditioner turned all the way down. And yeah have a c service within a few days and then transport you to where you're going to be buried or however your disposition is going to be.
Speaker: that's fully acceptable without funeral director involvement. Now, don't get me wrong. I love our funeral director. There's two funeral directors here in town that we work really well with. ah Yeah. They're just amazing people all around.
Speaker: Some people can't take care of their loved ones after they've deceased. It's a mental thing. You know, they're too distraught. They can't do it. So in that case, absolutely. Hire a professional. But if you're able to do it, do it. And the closure, I think, is so much better on a personal level. yeah Taking care of your deceased loved ones.
Speaker: It's different. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's something I we grew up with um a little bit in Ireland, more rurally. I'm from Dublin. And so in Dublin, we we we were a city. So we had were not not similar to the US, s but we always had funeral homes and funeral directors and, you know, the men that would come in and take care of everything. Whereas in rural Ireland, though, was very community based and the women, I mean, women were original, the original undertakers, really. And we took care of the bodies and washed and bathed and everything like that.
Speaker: But a question I guess I'm fascinated with on this one is ah who, how do we regulate that or how or how is that regulated, though? Like, You know, as so a person dies in a funeral home. I mean, obviously a death certificate. So they have to be a doctor, was you know, they have to medically assigned as as deceased. And if postmortems and things like that, not like a kid can just, you know. yeah After somebody passes away, you have five days to file a death certificate.
Speaker: to get that taken care of at the vital statistics office. Doctor. intriguing Like say you're terminally ill and a doctor's been treating you and they say, yeah, i knew she was going to die. So yeah, let me just, I can sign off on that for you.
Speaker: Now, if you die under mysterious circumstances and you have to go to a medical examiner's office for a few days, the medical examiner's office can sign that death certificate for you as well. And then you can take all that paperwork to the Vile Sister's Office again and get a burial transit permit.
Speaker: And that accompanies the body at all times. They can put your body in the back of ah a pickup truck with a cover on it and then bring you to the green burial site of your choosing and bury you there.
Speaker: And that's it. That's all that's required is as long as your paperwork is filed, your death certificate is filed, that's it. Wow. And you could say thousands of dollars by doing that. yeah In Florida, the average cost of a funeral service is $7,000 to $10,000. And I think the e National Funeral Directors Association's website, I've compiled all of their statistics, and it was about $14,000 for average.
Speaker: For a few. And that's including your cemetery costs, your vault costs, the viewing service fees, the staffing fees for the funeral home and what have you. But here for us, it's $1,800 and that's it.
Speaker: That's the opening and closing of the grave site at time of need. And because we're a nonprofit, 100% of that goes back into maintaining our nature preserve. so So you call yourselves a nature preserve as well, not a cemetery.
Speaker: Yeah. you so we're we're a conservation cemetery and nature preserve. We go hand in hand kind of with it. You know, these, yeah all these that are buried here provide so much nutrients for the habitat around it that it just makes sense to, you know. We also do a longleaf pine ecosystem as well. We're restoring nutrients. the native pine leaves, native pine trees for Florida here. I think there was less than 3% of the native habitat for the pine needles.
Speaker: For many. Yeah. my yeah ah john putton his input John is our founder. Him and his brother are one of our founders. ah We should get John on comrade. Put him in there. and he's he's from my He's providing the facts in the background.
Speaker: Hi, John. Yeah, we didn't even get to our founding story yet. I know. Welcome to the Glam Reaper podcast. Tell us what made just what made you start this.
Speaker: It was the answer to how do we make sure our farm never ever gets broken into little pieces. There's no taxes on a cemetery. Aha. So who thought it was a financial decision. Yeah.
Speaker: In a sense, now, as we were going through the process of learning how to actually make this happen, as basically naive, ignorant country boys, it began to get obvious that there was divine intervention involved.
Speaker: Most likely, my parents, my brother, our wives, all incarnated into planet Earth at this time to make this happen. along with a bunch of other people who just showed up and says, I'm going help you with this.
Speaker: People with skills and ah that we didn't even know existed. But to actually make it happen was quite a process. It's just an idea.
Speaker: Yeah. And it's, it's non-profits. I mean, it's, you know, it's. That was a cheap and easy way to actually make it happen in today's financial slash political world.
Speaker: ah Yeah. foundation would have been better, but it costs a lot more. and And the lawyer that the law school professor who stepped up and says, Hey, I'm to help y'all do this. Ah, where do you, where does that come from?
Speaker: ah He he are suggested we go with a nonprofit. So at that point in time, we didn't have many options considering de du root to really make something like this happen, you need a billion dollars up front to start with for trust fund lawyers.
Speaker: Yeah. But that part was lacking. So we did what we did, and it turns out I don't think we could have done anything any better. Yeah, that's great. Setting the foundation for...
Speaker: other green burial facilities yeah open as well. yeah I was just telling her that there's over 400 now. but We were number two in the nation and number one in the state of Florida.
Speaker: The first one in America was in South Carolina. And that guy, bi Dr. Billy Campbell, he helped us do this. That was part of the divine intervention. Yeah. i we go that's good and any Amazing story.
Speaker: We thank you for doing this and sharing your story. I'm having fun. What can I say? switching have We do have a lot of fun out here for sure.
Speaker: out of curiosity, when you said you bury um three and a half feet deep, and do you have markers on each grave? And do you, because it's more of a nature preserve, do you recycle those graves after? I mean, you're you're probably not around long enough yet.
Speaker: I'm so glad you asked that question. Yes, we do. and So we use recycled material, um primarily brass and aluminum that we melt down here at our workshop.
Speaker: And we turn them into markers. Each marker gets two. You get a brass and an aluminum one. Brass goes at the head, aluminum at the feet. So that way we can tell orientation in the future. Okay. And after they set on a piece of rebar, we then hand stamp first, last name, birthday, and death date into each marker.
Speaker: So that's how we tell where where the burial sites are. There's also a bit of a mound that's left over. So because we don't use bolts, there's a bit of ah round and dirt displacement. So every piece of dirt we dig out, we try to put back on top and then you get the dust mound. So that will never start to decompose or biodegrade in the grave itself.
Speaker: The settling isn't as noticeable and it's allowed to settle. The state of Florida says we must be able to identify who's buried where for forever.
Speaker: The markers that we make and some little maps that we make referencing numbered concrete posts on a grid in a pine forest. We send the family home with some copies of the map. One stays here, one stays at Fawn's house, one stays at my brother's house.
Speaker: This bureaucrat in Florida who called and asked, how are you doing that part? Said that's better than most cemeteries. Look at us, guys. We're initiatives, you know? it fireproof it termite proof It's It's rock focus-proof. And it should last on and on until Jesus comes or whenever.
Speaker: I don't know if you can see it right here. So you get our mound here and then two posties on each end. Okay. Yeah, very good.
Speaker: Does ever um do any graves have more than one person in it at a time? or No, we don't stack. So there's 350 woolen acres. and boom a license that we operate under says we cannot stack bodies.
Speaker: That's a $50,000 license that gives you that ability. Yeah, and wait. There's so much property out here with 350 acres to choose from. wow We don't have a need to even do that. you know, we have so, so much space for every, when we go on tours, ah we don't even use a grid system. Most burial sites say, oh, you know, we have a a plot system, you know, this plot's available, what have you. We don't do that.
Speaker: So if we're out and we're given a tour, and either somebody's already passed or they're going to pass and they're picking out their own spot. If we're driving around and the wind blows or a butterfly lands on a specific spot and you're like, that's it. Okay, we'll put down two flags, mark its geological location, and that's where you'll be buried.
Speaker: And then we try to need room on the sides of you. So then that way, if your family wants to be buried with you in the future, there's room for them as well. But there's, I think at the current, we were going to max out at like 22,000 whole body burials. And currently we have like 200.
Speaker: a Future generations problems. Well, hopefully, you never know. Maybe they'll all have decomposed enough that it'll be a whole new cycle of of graves maybe or something. I don't know. Maybe you like in 200 years from now, you never know. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: I know there's um overseas they do that. Where they'll, you you rent your burial plot for so many years and then they... yeah I'm going to be going on a European tour for in May and June, where I'm going to be talking about the different and disposition methods in each country and the different ways and communities come together or don't and Harane burial. So being a European myself, and you know, we're unlike Europe, i because I always joke, I'm like each state is like a different country. It's like the United States is Europe, right? Like so Europe, in Europe being Irish is very different from being German or French and the way we do death is very different so yeah I'm on an exploratory trip to sort of see exactly what we're all what we're at so I live for your adventures so she's off to the net with bones always doing something yeah
Speaker: Always getting into some form of mischief too. I mean, it's, it's my, my dad jokes that I need to write a book about the the adventures I get on because it's never normal. Like what happens to me when I do my travels is never, it's, it's comedy.
Speaker: I mean, if people saw the line looking with flags up and down flights of stairs and falling down and oh my God. pady oh Anyway, I do wonder sometimes how I've survived to the right old age of 43.
Speaker: Hopefully another another 40 years or so that'll do me as long as I live healthy and can travel still until I'm eight. Very happy. very happy and Well, this sounds like I mean, it sounds like a wonderful, magical place, honestly. um And I really am well, I'm not sure I'll get all the way to yours. If Florida is crazy big, I never realized it until I moved here how big it is. It really, really is. So maybe I'll maybe I'll find a um ah cemetery closer to home here and maybe we'll go visit and do some filming. and But it does. it's I mean, Green Burial is a beautiful concept. It's a beautiful idea. um I mean, it's what we did ancestrally. All of us, you know, bombing didn't become popular in the U.S. until the Civil War because they needed to find ways to get soldiers back home. And then it was, yeah, oh, hey, i know let's do this. let's You know, try to preserve them and bring them back home. Then it you really took off as an industry. It's an industry, you know. Yes. there yes and
Speaker: Yeah. And people, people love it. People hate it. um You know, it's everyone has their opinions on it and their thoughts on it. And, you know, ah the way I look at it is it's like everything, you know, what's for you isn't for me and what's for me isn't for you. And, you know, what that's what makes the world go around. We're such a wonderful, diverse, you know, um group of people. and And we have choice. We have free will, allegedly. So.
Speaker: That's what I love about having access to funeral directors who are open-minded. A lot of funeral directors are not so open-minded to the home funeral concept, to the green burial concept, to taramation. You know, they're so against it. It's like...
Speaker: you're still getting paid at the end of the day. you know, if you, if you were to open up your mind and be so more accepting of helping these families and file the paperwork for them, charge a small fee and let them do the risk, you're missing out on us so much money. That's it. Yeah. It's pitching themselves more as consultants and experts, I think is, is the next level, you know, rather than the old fashioned way of maybe making money on caskets and the, you know, merchandise and things like that. It's, That we're never going to see again.
Speaker: Yeah. And grand grandma's not going to know that silk pillow and the gold knobs and the beautiful hard oak wood casket that it's going to get buried and we're never going to see that.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, there are people I have dear friends who are very aligned. I specific casket they want, like they want the top line. And that's the thing is people are specific about their their things. And it's, you know, it's it's very interesting of what people value at the end of the day, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, so my husband's great aunt just passed away recently. And her, she had a a typical modern day funeral. And she had this bright pink casket that was covered in glitter.
Speaker: i was so cute. It was so on point for her. But she did, she had this beautiful casket. I'm like, oh my goodness. Oh my God, I love that. Where are these...
Speaker: from Valdosta, Georgia is where they're at. So um whatever funeral home... That they were dealing with her at that time. Yeah. She planned it all out as soon as she got diagnosed with, I believe it was cancer. I don't remember what. Yeah. She got diagnosed with her ailment. She went right to the funeral home, pre-planned everything, which we're, i love pre-planning.
Speaker: Pre-plan at any age. Because you never know. You know, always have an advanced directive, always have a will. Always say, hey, this is where i want my disposition to be. Like, 100% yeah and any any life changes you go and you change it again which is why I need to update mine because I'm here saying that so actually need to just do it we have booked here in our office for sale
Speaker: Oh, shit. Dead napos. And then this one here says, sorry, it's your problem now because I'm dead. And it has, like, account information. And I want to be buried at this place in this funeral home. Or I want a home funeral. And these are my passwords. And this is my car insurance. And did having this with your will...
Speaker: We actually we so we have a PDF that we actually provide for free to people. It was actually appendix days of my first book. And so I do an awful lot of pre-planning workshops and talks about this and stuff. And there's actually a 42 page. I think it is document like that, that we send to people and we're like, it's free. But what's so interesting is how many people still don't avail of that.
Speaker: It's free and people still don't avail of it because people are afraid of just. planning and so yeah it just they think they're to last forever i don't know yeah i mean we're we're currently doing a document that incorporates a little bit more um like a checklist of you know your will your advanced directives your funeral plan your different things so just because we're getting a lot of requests with that and we're not lawyers or anything of the sort but just because people Request it. So, um yeah, listen, no matter where you get it from, no matter what you do, I think both me and Fawn are telling you, if you're listening to this, get your plans together.
Speaker: Probably about 18 the first time I did my will. It had nothing in it, but it said, hey, this is what I want. You know, just to have something in there. you've got You never know.
Speaker: We're not promised tomorrow. And working in the death care industry, I can tell you, it can come at any moment. yeah All the people we have buried here had plans tomorrow.
Speaker: Yeah. So get your stuff in line, especially if you have children, too. Yeah. Very important to do all that for the ps sake of your child. Who do your kids go to? Who do your dogs? If you are a dog parent, who do your dogs go to? Who do your cats go to? you know, it's so important that that was in your will.
Speaker: Exactly. Exactly. Well, that is a brilliant end note for this podcast. Pre-plan your funeral. Pre-get your shit together. Yeah. And if you're if Green Burial is what you're interested in, well, you've got Fawn in the panhandle at Glendale. was about to say Gleandale. Yeah, but check out your local Green Burial site. If it's for you, great. If it's not, then, you know, just look at your other options. Fawn, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a pleasure. Thank you for having me it was so nice chatting with you. and I hope everybody goes and pre-plans their dispositions.
Speaker: you
