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An Amateur's Analysis of Sappho
21 Plays14 days ago
It's our first special episode! Today I, a complete amateur, decided to take a look at some of my favorite Sappho fragments and ramble to my heart's content. It may not be coherent but I had fun and that's what matters. We'll be back with our normal Xenite conversations next time!
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Translations Used:
Carman, O'Hara, and Russell: Delphi Classics (2015). The Complete Works of Sappho.
Barnard: Mary Barnard (1958) Sappho: A New Translation. University of California Press.
Carson: Anne Carson (2002). If Not, Winter: Fragments of Sappho. Vintage Books.
Social Media:
Pod Twitter: @talkxenatomepod
My Twitter/Tumblr: @ellisthemighty (hit me up!)
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Transcript
Introduction to Talk Xena To Me and Special Episode Overview
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Talk Xena To Me. This is the podcast where i Elizabeth, um, or Ellis and all my social medias, um, usually talk to my fellow Z-knights about our experience in the fandom of the show, but to today is a very special episode. um i have decided that I would like to do um sort of solo episodes on various topics, um whatever comes to my mind, I suppose. um
00:00:53
Speaker
sort of not necessarily in between conversations, but, um, it is every so often. Um, and this is going to be the first one of those, um, super exciting, very, very self-serving.
00:01:06
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so thank you for tuning in.
Future Episode Plans
00:01:11
Speaker
Um, So a few points of business, actually.
00:01:17
Speaker
um Sorry, ah this took a bit of time. um I just might might get up and go. ah Got up and left me. So, um but we're here.
00:01:30
Speaker
We're here now and we're going to get this done. um So I want to go over a few um ideas that I had for some of these special episodes, just so you know sort of what's coming up. um I plan on um ah reading the Odyssey coming up soon within the next month, hopefully, so that by the time...
00:01:56
Speaker
the Odyssey movie comes out. I can go see that and I'd like to do an episode um talking about that movie because I'm excited and also very scared for that.
00:02:12
Speaker
um But we'll see.
Commentary Episodes with Friends
00:02:16
Speaker
We'll see. um And then Um, for those of you who have been around on my Twitter, for example, you might remember that, um, about a year ago, I guess, I had a thread on Twitter where I was, like, watching Xena with my boyfriend at the time.
00:02:35
Speaker
And you know that, um, I love showing Xena to people, um, in my life, whether they want to watch it or not. And, um, So my my college roommate, is one of my best friends, has agreed to watch an episode with me. So we're going to record um like commentary, I guess, um that you can play alongside. I think I'm either going to do um A Day in the Life or Girls Just Want to Have Fun.
00:03:07
Speaker
Um, but there's kind of a catch. She hates camp. She does not like camp. And, um, she had to bear witness to, um this whole hyperfixation. She saw my Killing Eve posters go down. She saw the Xena posters go up.
00:03:26
Speaker
Um, she, um, I think is rather tired of listening to me. um, And having me show her little clips. But she's never seen an episode.
00:03:39
Speaker
And um I don't know. I think I must have did her a favor or something. Because she was like, I owe you a Xena episode. So I'm cashing it in. um So that's definitely going to happen. I don't know exactly when. But probably definitely over this summer. um While we're both available to each other.
Engaging with the Zenite Community
00:04:00
Speaker
um But yeah, so this is ah some exciting things coming up. um The next podcast episode will be a conversation with another Zenite. Absolutely. Probably the next couple episodes.
00:04:11
Speaker
um So that's exciting. Keep on ah sending in those forms if you want to be on. I'd love to have you. I want to talk to as many people as possible. um Yeah, I think that's everything I wanted to say in terms of business.
Exploring Sappho's Works
00:04:32
Speaker
Alright, so moving into Sappho. um I wanted to do this episode because I love Sappho. um I love how simple she is. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but I just mean that she's very direct. Everything's very clear. Everything's written very... um
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, very simply. um It's well, depending on the translation, speaking from the translation that I typically go to. um So I want to start this off with a little conversation about translation and about what my goal is here, because I don't want anyone thinking that I am doing this um to chart um accuracy. So I'm going to, I've pulled four poems that I want to talk about.
00:05:20
Speaker
and the translations that I have of those. And I'm going to do some comparisons um between them, but I want you to think of it as more of a literary analysis rather than anything historical,
00:05:34
Speaker
um mostly because I purely do not have the knowledge for that. um
00:05:44
Speaker
The thing about trying to do accuracy is that I do not speak ancient Greek. um I have no measure of being able to know which of these translations is more correct to um what Sappho was saying and how, you know, it was the emotions that she was trying to get across. um And unless you do speak ancient Greek, you know, there are so many connotations and things like that, that unless you understand,
00:06:18
Speaker
how to speak the language and also the context of that language and what people meant, meant you know, what people meant when they said specific words. Um, you know, accuracy is and maybe not necessarily, ah the thing to strive for, but accuracy in terms of like how it makes you feel.
00:06:40
Speaker
Um,
00:06:44
Speaker
So when I took Latin in college, we had some translation projects. And those projects involved looking at the Latin and then doing a direct translation, which is just literally what do these words mean?
00:06:58
Speaker
And then you had to go back and make it more poetic, more flowy, more um maybe more metaphorical in some senses. But you just had to rewrite it into a poem, right?
00:07:11
Speaker
And that is what a lot of these translations are doing. They're not, you know, they're they're making their own interpretations of what they think that Greek, the equivalent of what it should sound like in English.
00:07:25
Speaker
um So we have to keep that in mind. And also um the two um oldest translations that I have, which is by Bliss Carman in 1907,
00:07:39
Speaker
and John Myers O'Hara from 1910, they are interpretations. Um, and they are reconstructive. So those two gentlemen, um, um, have been, um taking bits of Sappho fragments and, um, making them into full poems themselves.
Critique of Older Translations
00:08:05
Speaker
So, um,
00:08:07
Speaker
a lot of their translations are translations, but they're also um additional um text to that they have written um of how they think they should end or what they think Sappho would say.
00:08:21
Speaker
um And some of them get pretty ah pretty offensive, honestly. um So we'll talk about that. I'm not too big of a fan of that. um at all. I really love um Anne Carson, which is the version that we are going to be using as a base because I think it's the most um ah
00:08:47
Speaker
cut down. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but there's there's no um additional text at all. um All of the other translations um cut out gaps. so these are fragments, right? So they have Lots of blank spaces where we simply don't have the words that went there.
00:09:06
Speaker
And Ann Carson in her translations, she leaves um these brackets in. ah To signify that we don't have the words that would go there. um The other translations don't do that. um Even when they're not ah reconstructions, like the older translations, they are still um filling in gaps.
00:09:28
Speaker
At least minimally to make them... into full sentences or what have you. um So I prefer Anne Carson because I think the breaks really um make it feel real.
00:09:39
Speaker
And I appreciate the breaks because it's like you have the one meaning of what Sappho really meant and what she wrote. And then it becomes a whole other meaning when you read it with the gaps and um
00:09:52
Speaker
there's something missing, but it also kind of makes it feel more whole in a way, I guess. It's like those poems, those blackout poems or whatever. Um, where you like have a ah wall of text and then you like cover up some words and then you leave some words out, that kind of thing.
00:10:09
Speaker
Um, it reminds me of that. So, um, I will go ahead and get started. Like I said, I'm going to read the Ann Carson first and then I'm going to make my way through the other translations that I have. um I will read the poems um and then I will talk about them. I plan on posting pictures of the poems um on the podcast Twitter um so that you can go look at those um because I know that it's way easier to have a visual on those things than listen to me read it and then be like, what did that say?
00:10:40
Speaker
um so I will be doing that. And I also decided um while reading the Ann Carson, because she has those breaks um and those gaps, that um I thought about saying the word break to signify a break, but I don't ah want to interrupt the flow.
00:10:59
Speaker
um And there's one poem in here that I really love that I think that would be pretty ah disastrous for the flow of it. um So I'm just going to pause. I'm just going to do a pause. um So if there's ah ah a place in the Ann Carson poems ah where I stop for a second or two um and then go on, just know that that is a place where um there are parts of the text that are missing.
00:11:26
Speaker
So that being said, let's go into our first poem. The first poem that we are going to look at is fragment 31. This is also known as the Ode to Anictoria, which is one of supposedly Sappho's lovers. um Oh, another thing.
00:11:46
Speaker
um ah
00:11:51
Speaker
I picked very gay poems, um obviously. um i don't know if Sappho was a lesbian or if she was bi or what? I do know, and I want to set this straight because it kind of annoys me, people talk about like, oh Sappho wrote that she was married to man from Man Island, like that's clearly a joke about how she's gay or like, she's not really married to that guy. Listen, Sappho, that was not Sappho who wrote that. Sappho did not write that. Um,
00:12:23
Speaker
This like play dude, this like comic play dude wrote it. It was like a joke in a play. Anyway. Anyway. She was probably bi. that's my That's my two cents.
00:12:36
Speaker
Anyway.
Mary Barnard's Translation
00:12:38
Speaker
um So this is the, like I said, Fragment 31. This is the poem that was in Xena. um It is the one that she gives Gabrielle from Sappho in Many Happy Returns, of course.
00:12:53
Speaker
um And I wanted to start with this one because this is really what I'm going to go into in the most detail um for obvious reasons. um So I want to talk about, I'm going to read the version that was in the um the episode first.
00:13:12
Speaker
So here we go. And, ah you know, you saw the title of this. It says it's an amateur's ah attempt, so forgive my uh, forgive my poetry reading skills.
00:13:26
Speaker
And also any kind of messy disorganizedness because I'm doing this based off my notes and not, I didn't write a script. Okay.
00:13:37
Speaker
There's a moment when I look at you and no speech is left in me. My tongue breaks, then fire races under my skin and I tremble and grow pale for I am dying of such love or so it seems to me.
00:13:50
Speaker
So hear Gabrielle read that. um And this is a very, very abridged version of the full fragment. um And it's a pretty it's a pretty decent sized fragment. you know it's It's almost complete, I think, to my knowledge.
00:14:08
Speaker
um Which is you know it's a lot longer than other fragments we have that are just like a line. um But this is ah very abridged from the whole thing. And they definitely did that on purpose. A, because you can't be saying in a whole...
00:14:24
Speaker
poem in that scene that would take up way too much time. And also because by cutting it, they have changed sort of the meaning of the poem to something else, which you'll see after I read the Ann Carson version.
00:14:37
Speaker
um It sort of turns um the poem ah from, it starts out in in the original text as sort of a jealous um observation from afar, and then it turns into um in Xena a direct statement two um the lover. So i am going to read, get my reading glasses on.
00:15:07
Speaker
Just kidding, that's metaphorical. I don't have reading glasses. um I'm gonna read the fragment 31 of, this is Anne Carson's, this is the version that I always go to.
00:15:20
Speaker
um And you will see what I mean by abridged because there's a whole stanza that we don't have in that version.
00:15:35
Speaker
So here we go. an Carson, this is from 2002. Here go. um here we go
00:15:43
Speaker
He seems to me equal to gods, that man, whoever he is, who opposite you sits and listens close to your sweet speaking and lovely laughing. Oh, it puts the heart in my chest on wings, for when I look at you, even a moment, no speaking is left in me.
00:15:57
Speaker
No. Tongue breaks, and thin fire is racing under skin, and in eyes no sight, and drumming fills ears. And cold sweat holds me, and shaking grips me all, greener than grass.
00:16:10
Speaker
I am, and dead, or almost I seem to me. But all is to be dared, because even a person of poverty... And then it ends. Then it's over. And we don't know what comes next.
00:16:23
Speaker
Um... So that is Anne Carson's version.
00:16:29
Speaker
So we're going to be using this as the basis for our... but Oh my god. The basis of our comparison. So... um The language is fairly simple, as you just heard.
00:16:41
Speaker
um Sappho doesn't name this man. She doesn't know this man. um She specifically says, you know, whoever he is, you know, his identity is not important.
00:16:51
Speaker
um But she really envies him because he is getting to sit And talk to this girl. um So it's fairly similar to the version of it that is in Xena. I would love to figure out what translation they used um and how they decided on that.
00:17:13
Speaker
That would be really interesting. There's little tiny differences like the Xena version says she trembles. This one says that shaking grips her. um The Carson version adds in um no sight and the drumming in her ears.
00:17:29
Speaker
um The Carson says greener than grass rather than um pale like the Xena version says. Although those two phrases um get kind of mashed together in a lot of things. A lot of people um say ah They get pale as grass or um they sort of get mashed together in different versions. um And then um it ends in that that last line, but all is to be dared because even a person of poverty, which to me, and and and we'll see in other versions, um sounds like, you know, these are all things that sound horrible, but, you know, we all love love.
00:18:12
Speaker
you know It's something that you we continue to put ourselves through, even if it's um painful or potentially painful. um So we have that whole stanza where she's observing this man talking.
00:18:25
Speaker
And obviously they cut that out for Xena because that wouldn't make sense. um But I do find it interesting that it turns Sappho um from this person who is outside of the scene,
00:18:37
Speaker
um She's like observing from, I don't know, for some reason I picture her like sitting in a bush somewhere oh um to just this sort of confession um in the Xena version, which i I really enjoy.
00:18:55
Speaker
All right, so now i want to talk about um Bliss Carmen. So Bliss Carmen is from 1907, like I said, and this is one of those um um reconstruction um pieces where they decide to finish the poem for themselves. So you'll see um the direction that Carmen believed that this poem was going in or should be going in.
00:19:24
Speaker
Peer of the gods, he seems, who in thy presence sits and hears close to him thy silver speech tones and lovely laughter. Ah, but the heart flutters under my bosom, when I behold thee even a moment.
00:19:37
Speaker
Utterance leaves me, my tongue is useless, a subtle fire runs through my body, my eyes are sightless and my ears ringing. I flush with fever, and a strong trembling lays hold upon me.
00:19:49
Speaker
Paler than grass am I, half dead for madness. Yet must i greatly daring, adore thee. as the adventurous sailor makes seaward for the lost skyline and undiscovered fabulous islands drawn by the lore of beauty and summer and the sea's secret.
00:20:05
Speaker
So there's a lot here. There's a lot going on. Um, this language is much wordier than Ann Carson, um, which kind of comes with the territory with these old, um, translations. They tend to get a bit archaic.
00:20:23
Speaker
Um, But it's very sort of dramatic. He talks about the tongue is useless. um He uses subtle fire instead of thin fire. um Again, paler than grass. I love the phrase half dead for madness, which is really interesting. um You know, Sappho has you know lost her mind to due to this sort of jealousy and love that she's feeling.
00:20:49
Speaker
um And then these last two stanzas um made to finish... um The fragment comparing pursuing love to a sailor discovering islands drawn by beauty in the sea ah kind of made me think of like imperialism and conquering unknown lands and all of that lovely, lovely stuff um but that i usually associate with like British...
00:21:18
Speaker
imperialism, but that's because I took a class on the British Empire um in class. But anyway, this guy's Canadian. um
00:21:28
Speaker
he's He's part of the Commonwealth. um i I don't hate it I think it's okay. I think um it definitely shows some ah ah what the translator was interested in.
00:21:44
Speaker
i don't think that's where Sappho was going. I really don't. um So we're, yeah, I, you know, he he tried.
00:21:57
Speaker
did his best. It's not, it's not, you know,
00:22:02
Speaker
i wish he would have just left it alone, but, but it's not, it could have been worse. Could have been worse.
00:22:10
Speaker
All right, so we are going to move on to John Myers O'Hara. um He wrote, ah this book came out in 1910. Full disclosure, I do not like this man.
00:22:22
Speaker
oh he he I really don't like him. He has a whole section of his translations that's called Erotica, and it's just like,
00:22:37
Speaker
ah completely unnecessarily horny. And I think you'll see this here um in this translation. I just, I really dislike him. And you can tell in my notes, which you'll also hear.
00:22:50
Speaker
um But I'm going to read that now. Again, this is um Myers O'Hara from 1910. nineteen ten
00:23:01
Speaker
Peer of gods to me is the man thy presence crowns with joy, who hears as he sits beside thee, accents sweet of thy lips the silence breaking with lovely laughter, tones that make the heart in my bosom flutter, for if i the space of a moment even, near to thee come, any word I would utter instantly fails me.
00:23:21
Speaker
Vain, my stricken tongue would a whisper fashion, subtly under my skin runs fire ecstatic. Straightway mist surged dim to my eyes and leave them reft of their vision.
00:23:32
Speaker
Echoes ring in my ears, a trembling ceases all my body bathed in soft perspiration. Pale as grass I grow in my passion's madness, like one insensate. But must I dare all, since to me unworthy, bliss thy beauty brings that a god might envy.
00:23:48
Speaker
Never yet was fervid woman a fairer image of Kypris. Ah, undying daughter of god, befriend me. Calm my blood that thrills with impending transport. Feed my lips the murmur of words to stir her bosom to pity.
00:24:02
Speaker
Overcome with kisses her faintest protest. Melt her mood to mine with amorous touches, till her low ascent and her sighs abandon Loremeeta rapture. So, as you can hear, very, very, very wordy and dramatic for basically no reason.
00:24:23
Speaker
Um...
00:24:27
Speaker
He is just so extra, he adds three extra stanzas. Um, and he he calls on Aphrodite, for those of you who, if you don't know, Kypris, uh, is, uh, another name for Aphrodite, based off, uh, her origin story of where she comes from.
00:24:48
Speaker
Um, So ah it's it's very reminiscent of the ode to Aphrodite. It almost feels like he's combining them because, you know, in that poem, Sappho is calling on Aphrodite to help her win.
00:25:05
Speaker
um the affections of this girl that she's in love with. And um that's pretty much what's happening at the end of this poem. So um it might be in the the spirit of Sappho to some extent, but it's a little, it's little intense for me um to be so honest. But
00:25:31
Speaker
uh yeah no i got nothing i i don't like it i don't like it at all um it's just very
00:25:43
Speaker
it just doesn't there's no reason for this um Yeah, I literally wrote in my notes, it just says, contains all of the parts that the others do, but in the most dramatic way to say them, which I think is pretty much all we need to know.
00:26:00
Speaker
um This guy can, ki he can leave, he can go.
00:26:07
Speaker
So we are going to move on to Mary Barnard. um She wrote in 1958. So we're skipping forward in time.
00:26:19
Speaker
um And this is really lovely. I really appreciate her translation. um And and I just, I love it for multiple reasons. So here we go.
00:26:34
Speaker
um This is titled, um she actually gives it a title called, He is More Than a Hero, which is interesting. um So here we go. He is a god in my eyes, the man who is allowed to sit beside you.
00:26:49
Speaker
He who listens intimately to the sweet murmur of your voice. The enticing laughter that makes my own heart beat fast. If I meet you suddenly, I can't speak. My tongue is broken.
00:27:00
Speaker
A thin flame runs under my skin. Seeing nothing, hearing only my own ears drumming, I drip with sweat. Trembling shakes my body, and I turn paler than dry grass.
00:27:10
Speaker
At such times, death isn't far from me. I love this translation. It is so simple. is kind of on the same simplicity as they and Carson, which I appreciate.
00:27:22
Speaker
Um, and I love some of this wording. She said, the man who is allowed to sit beside you. It's not just, you know, Sappho seeing this man and going, oh, I wish that was me. It's, it's that she doesn't feel like she is allowed to be that man. It's sort of adds another layer of like tragedy, I guess that it's just like, she doesn't feel,
00:27:46
Speaker
um And not only that she can't be there, but she's not that's not an option for her. She's not allowed to. um And then um she does not attempt to include um the last line, the broken off line. It's just about um daring and and people who are in poverty that Ann Carson had.
00:28:09
Speaker
um She just completely leaves it off, um which I think is ah probably a good thing to do. um if you're If you're trying not to have awkward breaks,
00:28:22
Speaker
um I would much rather you just leave something off than like try to build a whole fake narrative. um So that's good. I love that last line, at such times death isn't far from me.
00:28:40
Speaker
It just feels very resolute. It feels very... um
00:28:47
Speaker
It's just nice. I love that it's just, you know, at these times, she's really um signaling out that that these emotions are when she sees this person, when she sees this girl. Because she says, you know, if I meet you suddenly, this is what happens. You know, at these times, this is how I feel. It's very, very... um cause and effect driven, I guess. But um
Peter Russell's 2011 Translation
00:29:12
Speaker
I just really love it. i think I think she did a really good job um with this one.
00:29:16
Speaker
Maybe not so much with some other ones, but with this one in particular, um i really, really enjoy it. um Yeah, it feels...
00:29:29
Speaker
It feels like a story, or feels like Sappho is sort of directly talking to you and and telling you about something that happened to her. um She's giving you the gossip.
00:29:39
Speaker
so um And finally, look, we're 30 minutes in, and we're almost done with the first of four. um But I did say that this would be more than the other ones, so um We have a final one. This is Peter Russell. This is the most recent translation. This is 2011.
00:29:58
Speaker
um So there's there's also some some really interesting things happening here that I'm going to to pick out some specific wording.
00:30:12
Speaker
And again, this is Peter Russell from 2011.
00:30:18
Speaker
That person seems to me the equal of the gods, who sits in your presence and listens to your sweet voice and beautiful laughter. Indeed, it makes my heart beat swiftly in my breast. When I see you for a short time, i am speechless.
00:30:31
Speaker
My tongue becomes useless, and suddenly a deft flame steals under my skin. My eyes see nothing, my ears chime, while sweat pours and my entire body is seized with convulsions.
00:30:42
Speaker
I am paler than grass, and in my madness I believe I am almost dead, but I must dare. And then it ends. He ends it with a dot dot dot actually, which I think is quite quite mystical.
00:30:55
Speaker
I like that. um But there's a few things to mention. um I love this ah framing of a deft flame.
00:31:05
Speaker
um Before it said a thin flame or a flame ecstatic. um But deft is um a deft that that steals under. um It's like she is being under attack by her feelings, especially with convulsions. You know, this is a ah violent um situation that's happening to her. And it reminded me a lot of ah another book by Anne Carson called Eros the Bittersweet, which is about how um the Greeks talked about ah desire.
00:31:40
Speaker
And a lot of times I talked about desire and Eros as being bittersweet. the Duh, I just said the title again. ah But um they sort of saw these things as as an attack, as something that happens to you, um takes control of you.
00:31:58
Speaker
um So that to me feels like a very, very... um true to ancient Greek thought translation there, which is really interesting.
00:32:12
Speaker
um Going back to the use of convulsions, he's just, he's very, very physically intense. um And I also really enjoy this um phrase about, in my madness, I believe I'm almost dead. you know, she's not actually dying, but um she thinks, you know, because she's a little crazy with love, that she is.
00:32:35
Speaker
um I wonder, this has made me wonder where um
00:32:43
Speaker
where ah Carson got the line about poverty from. I'm sure it's in the ancient Greek. I'm sure it is. But um Russell makes an allusion to the last line. He starts to say it, but he cuts it off probably because it wouldn't have a word a place to go.
00:33:02
Speaker
um But I just find it interesting that that's the only translation that I have at least um where that line got in there. um But yeah, anyway, i hope I hope that was... Anyway, that's the first poem that I wanted to talk about just because it's used in Xena. I know we all know it. We're all very familiar with it. But I want to see how, you know, different people write things differently and they interpret things differently. Yeah.
00:33:30
Speaker
I'm going to move on to another poem um that is actually maybe my favorite Sappho of all time.
Analysis of Fragment 94
00:33:45
Speaker
um It's a long one, but it is just, I love it so much. And the reason why I love it is because of the Ann Carson version. um I love the way um the breaks make the ending sound. So this is another one, um or rather this is the first one where the gaps in what we have is going to be really important. So really make sure that you listen for um the times where I stop and I will try to make them very obvious.
00:34:16
Speaker
um
00:34:19
Speaker
I know it might sound a little weird to have me just stop talking and then come back, but um it's better than saying break. um And we're really only going to be comparing two translations because um the oldest ones did not have um this fragment in them. so And I'll talk a little bit about why that is, perhaps. So, alright.
00:34:47
Speaker
This is Ann Carson. from 2002.
00:34:54
Speaker
I simply want to be dead. Weeping, she left me with many tears and said this. Oh, how badly things have turned out for us. Sappho, I swear, against my will I leave you.
00:35:05
Speaker
And I answered her, rejoice. Go and remember me, for you know how we cherished you. But if not, I want to remind you. And beautiful times we had.
00:35:17
Speaker
for many crowns of violets and roses
00:35:22
Speaker
at my side you put on, and many woven garlands made of flowers around your soft throat, and with sweet oil costly you anointed yourself, and on a soft bed delicate you would let loose your longing, and neither any nor any holy place, nor was there from which we were absent, no grove,
00:35:47
Speaker
No dance. No sound. i i just love this. Something about this really hits me. i
00:36:00
Speaker
i just, i love, um there's a lot of religious themes in it, um which anytime... um
00:36:10
Speaker
any Anytime a sort of same-sex ah relationship or love is compared to a a religious um theme, I just, ugh, I eat that up.
00:36:22
Speaker
I think a lot of people do. um That's why taking me to church was such a hit. um But, um yeah, i let me look at my notes, actually, because I'm going to lose myself in just...
00:36:38
Speaker
to my own thoughts. um I love the the blanks at the end um because they're literally, there is blanks between each of those phrases, no grove, no dance, no sound.
00:36:51
Speaker
And it still works, you know, even though we're missing, you know, it like, it made its own poetry. It made its own flow. It made its own meter, um which I love.
00:37:03
Speaker
Very romantic, very gay. kind of sexy in like a sad, a sad, wistful way. Um, like I said, I love, I love the word anointed. and that's a very religiously, um,
00:37:21
Speaker
uh, affiliated word. um You know, we have to remember that all of these words are chosen very carefully by the translators um to make sure that they are sort of getting the very most, I say most accurate. I'm not supposed to talking accuracy, or that's what I told myself, but um try to get the spirit of what Sappho was saying.
00:37:44
Speaker
um
00:37:48
Speaker
And then I'm not going to talk about Oja Aphrodite, even though it's the only complete poem we have um it's super popular but she says against my will i leave you which really reminds me of that um you know if she flees soon she will pursue or if she um uh something about refusing gifts soon she'll give them or she'll something like that how something it might be against her will now but it it won't be you know she'll do these things even if she doesn't want to
00:38:20
Speaker
um It's very similar to that poem. um And you'll see that with a lot of Sappho. If you read a lot of Sappho fragments, she has a lot of very defined themes um and phrases that she comes back to.
00:38:33
Speaker
um And I just love that. um That's why I love bands like like Big Thief is of my favorite bands. And it's because they have lyrics or um phrases in their lyrics that come up again and again and again. And you can just tell that those phrases have so much meaning for those people.
00:38:52
Speaker
um So I looked, and I looked, and I looked for other translations that was not in the other old translations. um I think maybe because it was too sexy, too gay, maybe.
00:39:05
Speaker
um It was also kind of discovered in the late 1800s and these books came out in the early nineteen hundreds so i don't really, no time base if it was like maybe it wasn't I don't know don't know um but I could not find it maybe I just missed it um sometimes it can be hard to um find the equivalent translations because they don't always use the same word so you don't really know necessarily what to look for um especially with these two guys who sometimes take one line and then just write their own poem based off of that um
00:39:42
Speaker
the Peter Russell version had um a fragment that was just one phrase. It just said, and gracefully woven garlands on a tender neck, which was very reminiscent of, you know, woven garlands of flowers around your soft throat, um sort of the same spirit. But that was all, that was included in
00:40:03
Speaker
That. So, um, we are actually only going to be comparing, um this poem to, um Mary Barnard, um, who is another woman. These were women translators are really, really killing it. They just, they just know better. Like, they just know better. They, they're women. They know, they just have the better vibes. I don't know. what These men are trying to do way, way too much.
00:40:33
Speaker
Um, in this case, they didn't do anything at all, but, but, in general. All right. Let me get Mary Barnard.
00:40:45
Speaker
Um, okay.
00:40:50
Speaker
This one is called, i have had not one word from her, which is really interesting to me. Here we go. Frankly, I wish I were dead.
00:41:01
Speaker
When she left, she wept a great deal. She said to me, "'This parting must be endured, Sappho. I go unwillingly.' I said, "'Go, and be happy, but remember, you know well, whom you leave shackled by love.
00:41:14
Speaker
If you forget me, think of our gifts to Aphrodite, and all the loveliness that we shared. All the violet tiaras, braided rosebuds dill and crocus twined around your young neck.
00:41:25
Speaker
So, and on soft mats girls with all that they most wish for beside them while no voices chanted choruses without ours no wood light bloomed in spring without song so it's It's less sexy than the other one, notably.
00:41:44
Speaker
um It's sort of filling in um these specific memories between Sappho and this girl um that we don't necessarily get um in the Carson. It adds in Dylan Crocus to the flowers.
00:41:59
Speaker
um I don't know why. Maybe that if anyone knows um flower language for these, that would be cool. um, could have looked it up, but I didn't, um, yeah, it's just less, less sexy than the other one, there's not, you know, um, the, the soft bit and everything, it talks about, um, you know, mats and things, um, I do think you could find some of that in, think of our gifts to Aphrodite, you know, what would a,
00:42:31
Speaker
What would a cup two gals give Aphrodite? um to But, um you know, and all the loveliness that we shared. So um that's pretty vague. Could be anything. Could throw anything in there.
00:42:46
Speaker
um Yeah, i love I love that she says shackled by love. um
00:42:56
Speaker
It's just, yeah, shackled by love. It's very, you know... she is being injured by this. They're both being injured by this. Probably this girl is going off to get married. That is almost 100% what's happening.
00:43:09
Speaker
Um, so, you know, she's going off. She's not going to see her again. And they were just, you know, girls being girls hanging out and now she's got to go get married and, and that's it. And she's saying, you know, you might forget me, but don't cause you know, we had all these good memories and, um,
00:43:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's just sad. um I love the difference between the two endings. um You know, she said, um no voices chanted choruses without R's.
00:43:42
Speaker
No woodlot bloomed in spring without song. They were just out there doing it. They were just, they were living their lives. um You know, they were singing, and they were having fun.
00:43:54
Speaker
um And then compared to Ann Carson, where she said, you know, and neither any blank nor any holy place nor was there from which we were absent. They were everywhere.
00:44:04
Speaker
um No grove, no dance, no sound. um That almost feels more metaphorical to me. I think because of the gaps, um it feels more magical. It feels more, um there's no holy place that we aren't.
00:44:20
Speaker
they're it feels more like she's speaking about their love as a concept rather than than them and physically i guess if that makes sense um but i just really i just really love that so
00:44:41
Speaker
and one last thing i want to note before i move on to the third poem which will be very brief um these fragments ah are all, uh, it's fragment 94, but it's also known as Sappho's confession.
00:44:55
Speaker
Um, which again, nowadays, well, no, Catholicism has been a thing, not in ancient times, but confession has a very, um, religious, uh, connotation.
00:45:08
Speaker
Um, and it's just like, yeah, this would have been, you know, it's a little, little hush-hush secret. She's, you know, speaking to this, she's telling us about how she and this girl had this conversation. And, um, anyway, it's also been called Sappho's Confession. I think that's important because i don't know.
Death and Memory in Sappho's Fragments
00:45:27
Speaker
I'm living, I love all these titles. It's very telling, um, what they get titled. So moving on to number three, it's going to get a little bit dark.
00:45:42
Speaker
Alright, welcome back. To you it has been one second. To me it has been 24 hours. Um, but I have taken a three hour nap this afternoon and I am raring to go.
00:45:56
Speaker
So, we have two more poems. Um, this next one is a little bit of a bummer. um But it it it I really like it. It tickles me.
00:46:11
Speaker
Not tickles me. that's That's the wrong phrase. But um I really love one specific phrase. um If you ever need any more evidence that this is just so for my own taste and not really ah really thinking about anyone else. um Anyway, andm um I'm just having fun.
00:46:34
Speaker
um So if you're still here listening, thank you. That's awesome. um And if you're not, that's okay. You don't even know that I'm talking to you right now. So anyway, um I'm going to jump right in um We have um four translations um this time.
00:47:00
Speaker
So that's super exciting and there's some real craziness. So... Here is Anne Carson's.
00:47:09
Speaker
Dead you will lie, and never memory of you will there be, nor desire into the aftertime. For you do not share in the roses of Pieria, but invisible too in Hades' house, you will go your way among dim shapes, having been breathed out.
00:47:25
Speaker
So as you can see, this is about, hey, this is still what's gonna happen when you're dead. You're gonna walking around, in in Hades and no one's going to remember you and no one's going to want you and you're just going to be, ah just a figure hanging out.
00:47:47
Speaker
Kind of depressing. Um, but I love that last phrase, having been breathed out. Um, and which I'll go back to after I read some of these other translations. Um, But that is our base. It's really simple.
00:48:04
Speaker
um Very um ah gentle, but like kind of vaguely threatening feeling. And I think some of the other ones might feel a little bit more threatening. um But yeah.
00:48:22
Speaker
So moving forward chronologically, um We're going to go back to John Myers O'Hara from 1910. He has titled his translation Pieri as Rose. um i really hate this.
00:48:37
Speaker
I really hate it. He has made the the fascinating choice to rhyme, which I really am not a fan of rhyming. Yeah.
00:48:50
Speaker
In my poems. ah It just feels cheesy to me. I just really don't like rhyming poems. um But. ah So he's made that decision.
00:49:01
Speaker
For some reason. um And he's also. Added. Quite a bit. um That. Of extra material here.
00:49:13
Speaker
um That's just. Really. Just the audacity of him. it It is awful. um So here's the ah Myers O'Hara.
00:49:28
Speaker
Pale death shall come, and thou and thine shall be then and thereafter to all memory, forgotten as the wind that yesterday blew the last lingering apple buds away.
00:49:39
Speaker
For thou hadst never that undying rose to grace the brow and shed immortal glows, Pieria's faithless flower that few may claim, to wreath and save thy unremembered name.
00:49:52
Speaker
A. Even on the fields of dis unknown, Obscure among the shadows and alone, Thy flitting shade shall pass, Uncomforted of any heed from all the flitting dead.
00:50:04
Speaker
But no one made, I think, beneath the skies, At any time shall live and be as wise, In sooth as I am, for the muses nine Have made me honored and their gifts are mine.
00:50:15
Speaker
And men, I think, will never quite forget My songs or me, so long as stars shall set, Or suns shall rise, or hearts feel love's desire, My voice shall cross their dreams, a sigh of fire.
00:50:29
Speaker
So,
00:50:32
Speaker
i i he has made this decision to write these stanzas that are just Sappho bragging on herself about how she's blessed by the muses and how people are going to remember her forever, which It's just so crazy to me that he he's made her... um You know, some poets can be a bit stuffed up. Sappho's not someone who feels um
00:51:04
Speaker
super into herself. She feels fairly humble um in in her poems. So I really kind of am offended on Sappho's behalf that he's added this. um And it's also interesting because he's kind of commenting on...
00:51:21
Speaker
himself at the end. of thishow you know Men are never going to forget you know my voice, my poems, and he's a man who's making a translation of her work.
00:51:32
Speaker
um So yeah, I really don't like this version. I think he's really taken some some liberties here um that I don't appreciate. um Yeah, just boo boo on this man.
00:51:51
Speaker
major boo on this man.
00:51:56
Speaker
So moving on to Mary Barnard's version from 1958, find this really interesting because she's titled her translation Rich As You Are, which is adding this element of, um,
00:52:13
Speaker
you know, before Sappho is just saying, you know, you, whoever she's talking to, you are going to die and you're going to be in the underworld and blah, blah, blah. But Barnard has added this element of, you know, um talking to a rich person and saying, you know, being rich isn't going to prevent you from, from this fate. um Which is a really interesting element to,
00:52:41
Speaker
add that I don't think was there before or else I feel like it would have been more brought out as a theme in the other translations. um But here is ah Rich as You Are, as as Mary Barnard has titled it.
00:52:56
Speaker
Death will finish you. Afterwards, no one will remember or want you. You had no share in the Pierian roses. You will flitter invisible among the indistinct dead in Hell's palace, darting fitfully.
00:53:10
Speaker
So a few things that are interesting. She has added more action, right? She's talking about flittering and um that, you know, before we've had um
00:53:24
Speaker
some some language about, you know, you're just going to, um you're making your way Among the dead. in In this version. She's talking about how.
00:53:35
Speaker
um The dead are are darting fitfully. They're they're restless. um There's a sense of like. A discontent. um also think it's interesting. That she doesn't say Hades.
00:53:49
Speaker
Which obviously is sort of removing. That Greek. God underworld. Name anyway. She just goes straight for hell. um And she also switches. house, which the other ones all say Hades house to hell's palace, which is more grand.
00:54:07
Speaker
And I think also more, um,
00:54:12
Speaker
more empty. Like if you have a house like that at least sounds cozier than a palace, a palace to me sounds like big and open and cold, which I guess makes sense. If you're comparing a palace to the dead sort of darting around fitfully in there, you know, I'm picturing more like a like a big old empty space compared to a house, which feels more, um
00:54:35
Speaker
I don't know. It just has cozier connotations, I guess, even though it's not necessarily meant to be cozy. It's cozier than palace.
00:54:43
Speaker
All right. And now finally, last one. um This is from Peter Russell, the 2011 one. Um, really, really simple, really, really following the formula that we saw first in Anne Carson.
00:54:59
Speaker
Um, pretty much a basic description. And it says, forever you shall lie dead, nor will there be any remembrance of you then, as you have none of Pius.
00:55:11
Speaker
Instead, you shall wander unknown in the house of Hades, mingling with the shadowy dead. So what I find interesting about this is that he he says wander. So um but that has different energy than the darting fitfully. It's more um aimless, meandering around, um sort of calmer.
00:55:35
Speaker
um
00:55:39
Speaker
i i think there's ah there's more of a sense of interacting with... um
00:55:46
Speaker
with the other dead around you. Cause I know the other ones say, um, things like invisible, like you're invisible, you know, you're, you're among, um, the dead, but you're not necessarily with them. She kind of sets the the person apart from the other shades.
00:56:04
Speaker
Um, so i just find it interesting that in this, he says mingling with the shadowy dead. So you're, you're a part of them. You're talking to them or,
00:56:15
Speaker
but If they can talk, I guess they can talk. But you're you're um communing with these other dead people in in Hades. So um I find that interesting. So um finally, I want to go back to the Anne Carson because, like I said, I really love that last line.
00:56:37
Speaker
um So it goes, you know, invisible to in Hades house, you will go your way among dim shapes, having been breathed out. And I find that so interesting that it's not been, ah that doesn't, that phrase, that concept doesn't really show up in the other translations. I don't know if that's because um Ann Carson ah includes a more um full translation of the fragments, whether or not um it ends up being a complete thought.
00:57:14
Speaker
um but I love that idea of someone dying, um having been breathed out. Um, the idea of sort of a, a soul being released. I love placing, um, um, placing sort of making the cycle of life into a biological system. So like the, the biological act of dying is now compared to being breathed out, which in itself, is a biological act, you know?
00:57:51
Speaker
You breathe in oxygen, you breathe out carbon dioxide, I guess you're born and then you do what you do in life and then when you're done, the the world gets rid of you, I guess, breathes you out. um I just think it's so interesting that that's what...
00:58:10
Speaker
what um
00:58:15
Speaker
that that's what she landed on that's the metaphor she landed on and I know that a lot of cultures and things and I I don't entirely know if this is the case for ancient Greece although I should I really should but I know that a lot of cultures see the soul as as the breath the breath being the soul the breath of life all of that stuff um so I just find that last um that last line to be particularly poignant, which is honestly, that was the whole reason why I picked out this poem.
00:58:47
Speaker
um But we will move on to number four, last but not least.
00:58:58
Speaker
All right, so the last um fragment that we're going to be looking at is Fragment 16.
Themes of Love and Beauty in Fragment 16
00:59:06
Speaker
And just as a side note, that's the official fragment number. Ann Carson um uses the official fragment numbers. um I had some trouble actually hunting down those other translations because they just do whatever. But um so fragment 16 is the actual number. I chose this one kind of last minute um because I realized that people have theories that this um is about, well, not theories.
00:59:33
Speaker
um I shouldn't say that. It's confirmed because she says it. um But this is about Annectoria, who the theories is that the the very first poem, the Xena poem, about that man who sits opposite you, um people think that that is also about the same woman as this fragment, um which is cool. So I wanted to do include it as sort of a bookend to um where we started.
00:59:59
Speaker
um little little bit happier. This isn't um necessarily a jealousy poem. This is a a wistful um sort of um love poem um that I want to spend some time on. So again, this is one of those poems that has um sort of important gaps. So i will be pausing um to demonstrate that.
01:00:33
Speaker
Alright, this Anne Carson's. Some men say an army of horse, and some men say an army on foot, and some men say an army of ships is the most beautiful thing on the black earth.
01:00:46
Speaker
But I say it is what you love. Easy to make this understood by all. For she who overcame everyone in beauty, Helen, left her fine husband behind and went sailing to Troy.
01:00:57
Speaker
Not for her children, nor her dear parents, had she a thought. No. led her astray. Four.
01:01:09
Speaker
Lightly.
01:01:12
Speaker
Reminded me now of Annectoria, who is gone.
01:01:19
Speaker
I would rather see her lovely step and the motion of light on her face than chariots of Lydians or ranks of foot soldiers in arms. Not possible to happen.
01:01:30
Speaker
To pray for a share. toward out of the unexpected. So obviously at the end there, it gets a little avant-garde.
01:01:43
Speaker
It gets a little confusing purely because there's so much missing. um But this is a very, very famous fragment. um People quote the beginning of it a lot. um
01:01:57
Speaker
What I find interesting is easy to make this understood by all. And then she talks about Helen because obviously everyone knows who Helen is. It's sort a ah universal metaphor. It's like um sort of today, ah you know, obviously you could still make that kind of reference today and everyone would probably talking about, but it's like making a Bible reference today or um that kind of illusion that she's making.
01:02:23
Speaker
um
01:02:26
Speaker
But I love this idea that she's looking at, you know, the society that's very patriarchal and all about sort of
01:02:35
Speaker
conquering and fighting and she's sort of pushing against that and saying that you know she thinks that what's most important is um and most beautiful is what you love. um Let's see. I'm looking through my notes. um Yeah. her her so the girl that she's talking about Ectoria, most likely she had been friends with Sappho, Laveres,
01:03:01
Speaker
lovevas And then left to get married is probably what happened. So, um you know, Sappho's basically like, you know, it's not possible to see you again because you're married.
01:03:16
Speaker
um But remember, you know. Yeah, but yeah yeah. She's basically just like, it's not possible to see her again, but I wish I could.
01:03:31
Speaker
Basically, um just sort of putting her her lover on um this pedestal of like, this is what's important to me, um which is interesting. Yeah, the the the blanks are um more frustrating on this one. I feel like I don't.
01:03:51
Speaker
I feel like to some extent when she's saying like, not possible, you know, to pray for a share, you know, she's hoping for you know, something out of this person to still have part of this relationship, I think.
01:04:07
Speaker
Um, but like the bar part of the end about, you know, out of the unexpected, who knows? I i don't, I have no idea. Um,
01:04:19
Speaker
so, um I was not able to find translations for, um the Carmen version or the O'Hara version, but I do have in my notes, this was where, this was, this was when I came across the erotica section of the O'Hara and I was so mad in my notes that I put the erotica section exclamation point.
01:04:47
Speaker
And then I had a quote that said, one long kiss of passion, he flowered her virgin heart. Um,
01:04:56
Speaker
And and i it apparently that really offended me, or not offended me, but it made me mad.
01:05:04
Speaker
I was anti, I was big anti that. um
01:05:10
Speaker
So this time I'm going to um
01:05:16
Speaker
to ah do, well, I'll just go ahead and do Barnard. I thought about switching it up, but I'd like to stay chronological we'll stay chronological um so barnard again is writing in 58 which is super interesting to me um in terms of like gender and everyone sorts of associates like the 50s with like more like trad wife i hate saying that that's on my mind because of what my therapist said earlier anyway um
01:05:49
Speaker
my therapist said trad wife and also chud in my session today. And it was, it was a little disturbing. Um, but, um, anyway, um we're going to go to, ah this poem that is, um, you know, it's about, you know, Helen and Helen had a sort of, that people thought that she abandoned her responsibilities and things like that. so um
01:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it's super interesting to me that that's sort of being written, um this translation in the 50s, so. And again, she keeps coming in with these titles that are so fascinating to me.
01:06:35
Speaker
This fragment is titled To an Army Wife in Sardis, which makes me think if she's sending, if she thinks that this poem should be written to an army wife, and she's saying, you know, some people think this army is the best thing in the world, but I think it's what you love. It's sounds like maybe she's, you know, I feel like it, to me, it sounds like she could either be like dissing this person, like, like you're an army wife, you're, you're, you know, whatever. Or it sounds like she's, you know,
01:07:11
Speaker
sympathizing with this person who is an army wife and her, her husband is in the army and, you know, maybe he thinks that the army is the most beautiful thing. And, and this wife, you know, loves her husband and she thinks that that's the most beautiful thing or, or she's, you know, I don't know, but, but it's interesting to me that she's, she's added that on.
01:07:34
Speaker
um Yeah. So here's that.
01:07:40
Speaker
Some say a cavalry corps. Some infantry. Some, again, will maintain that the swift oars of our fleet are the finest sight on dark earth, but I say that whatever one loves is.
01:07:51
Speaker
This is easily proved. Did not Helen, she who had scanned the flower of the world's manhood, choose as first among men one who had laid Troy's honor in ruin, warped his will,
01:08:03
Speaker
Forgetting love to her own blood, her own child, she wandered far with him. So, Anactoria, although you being far away forget us, the dear sound of your footstep and light glancing in your eyes would move me more than glitter of Lydian horse or armored shred of mainland infantry.
01:08:20
Speaker
So, i don't like it as much as the the first one. I think it's a little wordy. i think some of the, um, the grammar is kind of odd, which again is not the biggest deal, but I feel like it's poetry. yeah You know, you want it to sound as best as it can, which is also, you know, just as important a part of translation as, as the actual translating is. But, um,
01:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, she says warp to his will, you know, Helen's not, you know, she's being influenced by outside factors, um you know, forgetting love due her own blood, just seeing this as like,
01:09:07
Speaker
you know, sort of a betrayal, but something that Helen did for love, um sort of to point her, you know, to prove her point that she's making in this. Yeah.
01:09:19
Speaker
But yeah, it's it's it's pretty basic. It has basically the same um um parts that the Ann Carson does. I just think the Ann Carson um ah tends to word it a little better. Although the Ann Carson doesn't really have um the same sense of um betrayal, really. Like she talks about how you know she didn't have a thought for her children. um But it it sounds a little bit gentler to her. It says, you know, she was led astray rather, you know, warped to his will. Sounds um little more aggressive a little more little more blaming, I guess. I don't know. Maybe not. But
01:10:04
Speaker
um yeah, anyway. um So the final translation is ah Russell from 2011, which I thought, I assumed before I read it, um that his he's been he's been okay His translations have been sort of um astoundingly basic. um But this this threw in some interesting things.
01:10:33
Speaker
All right. So here is that Peter Russell. Some say that the most beautiful thing on the dark earth is a host of cavalry, and some claim a host of foot soldiers, and others say a fleet of ships.
01:10:46
Speaker
But for me it is my lover, and anyone can understand this. When Helen, the most beautiful of all, chose love, destroying the honor of Troy, though a little more than a child or parent herself, yet she was led by love, giving her heart away, since woman is easily led astray, when she takes a little account of those dear to her.
01:11:05
Speaker
Thus, Anactoria, it appears you do not remember that when she is with you, I would rather hear the gentle sound of her footfall than see all of Lydia's chariots chariots and armored footmen. In this world, I know that man cannot have the best, yet to pray for a part is better than to go without.
01:11:21
Speaker
So... There's a lot happening here. First off, he's adding a whole lot of explanation about Helen. um Which, I'll be honest.
01:11:34
Speaker
And I really should not admit this. I've not read the Iliad or the Odyssey.
01:11:40
Speaker
Which is... I'm ashamed. won't lie. I'm ashamed. I'm fixing that soon. I'm reading the Odyssey soon. But... um Yeah, anyway. It's just fascinating. i i really...
01:11:55
Speaker
at at And again, this is just like ancient Greek. This is just how they thought. But like, it's just so crazy. The, you know, woman's easily led astray, you know, the blaming of of, you know, her not doing what is expected of her, which is taking little account of those dear to her, not, you know, um and not being loyal to those around her.
01:12:21
Speaker
um And then I really um am intrigued by the last line of, in this world I know that man cannot have the best, yet to pray for a part is better than to go without, which is a really interesting interpretation of um the blanks that were left um with, um you know, pray for a share, um which is the main ah phrase in Ann Carson's book.
01:12:45
Speaker
Just the idea that, hey, you know, sometimes, uh, you can't have, you can't always, in the words of the Rolling Stones, that's Rolling Stones, yeah. You can't always get what you want. Um, but if you try sometimes, you you just might find you get what you need.
01:13:03
Speaker
That's what he's saying that Sepho's saying right here, which I think is really interesting and probably not too far off, if I had to guess. Um,
01:13:15
Speaker
But yeah, um I also think it's interesting that in the other translation, Sappho is saying, you know, it's not the army, but it is the what you love. And here he specifically says, it's my lover. It's not just um what you love. You know, it's not a hobby. It's a it's a ah specific um person. so Okay, well.
01:13:39
Speaker
All right. um I feel like I was more succinct and... ah less rambly and clear this time, um, tonight, probably because of the nap. Anyway, um I have a few notes in my, in my, um, in my notes that says to end with, um, fragment 69 because I'm a child.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:14:03
Speaker
Um, and because I thought it was funny that, um, fragment 69, just for your information, is just the word sinful. That's it. It's just blank,
01:14:15
Speaker
Blankety blank blank sinful blankety blank blank. Which, um... I don't know how the numbering system works, but it's very funny to me that that coincidentally ended up being fragment 69.
01:14:29
Speaker
But, um... Yeah, I wanted to close by saying that these were some of the, um... The longer fragments. Sappho has a lot of fragments that are, um...
01:14:43
Speaker
very much not long at all. They're like phrases at most. Um, and I might do another episode in the future, maybe talking about those just because I love them so much. Um, the only problem is that I don't know if I do much of a comparison because it's hard to find the other translations of those because they're literally just one line and then the other people like make up the rest of it. So if you don't catch like that one line, um,
01:15:14
Speaker
it's just hard to match up. It's really hard to match up. But, um, yeah. Um, if you don't have, um, and Carson's, um, translations, I really, really recommend it. i love this book. I loved it so much that I lost it. And then I bought another copy and it's, I probably have two in the house now, but, um,
01:15:41
Speaker
It's just fascinating, you know? And if if I didn't have this book, I would know that there's a fragment that just says celery. And that's beautiful. I love that that made it thousands of years to now.
01:15:51
Speaker
um But I wanted to close with my favorite um short fragment. I'm not going to talk about it, really. I just wanted to read it just because I really love it. It really hit me when I was flipping through. um a lot of these hit me, like I said, but particularly...
01:16:10
Speaker
um, this one, um, and I'll read, actually, this is a fragment that's in parts, um, or that's in two pieces, um, but,
01:16:24
Speaker
um, I'll read both of them, but it's really the first, um, the first part that I really, that I really loved.
01:16:35
Speaker
Alright, so this is fragment one zero four a Evening. You gather back all that dazzling... Nope, I'm gonna start that over, because I just made myself mad.
01:16:47
Speaker
yeah
01:16:50
Speaker
I made myself mad that I messed up. Okay. Back again. 1-0-4-8. Evening. You gather back all that dazzling dawn has put asunder. You gather a lamb, gather a kid, gather a child to its mother.
01:17:05
Speaker
I just love it That's all there is to say, really. I just love it. And then 104B just says, of all the stars, the most beautiful. Which, you know, that's not really what I want read. But it goes with the first one. It was part of the first fragment. So, anyway. Alright.
01:17:26
Speaker
I guess that's it I was trying to think if had anything more to say, but I don't think I do. um Thank you for listening. If you're still hanging around, um I appreciate you. um I appreciate everyone who's following along on this podcast that rocks.
01:17:41
Speaker
um I would love to talk to you. If you would love to talk to me, um the form to fill out a Google form will be in the description of this podcast. um Or you can just DM me or you can just, i don't know, c send a pigeon.
01:17:57
Speaker
um I'll get it. um Just put like my, my ad on there and it'll find me. Um, um But yeah, ah I'm trying to think if there's anything else I have to say. i will put, um oh yeah, I will put the translations that I used um in the description as well, along with my social media. um Check them out if you feel like it, if you want to.
01:18:26
Speaker
um i really recommend having um the physical copy of Ann Carson, honestly, because she has um the original Greek on one side of the text. And, or one side on the page and then the translation on the other side. And, um, ah there's just nothing like flipping through a ah book of old poetry is there.
01:18:46
Speaker
So I highly recommend that. Um, secondly, I'd recommend Mary Barnard's is pretty good. It's pretty solid. I really am fascinated by her titles just repeatedly.
01:18:57
Speaker
Um,
01:19:00
Speaker
ah The other ones can burn, honestly.
01:19:05
Speaker
No, I find them interesting. Sometimes I sometimes i appreciate um um O'Hara I don't really have a a big appreciation for because he gets so weird. He gets so weird and so flowery and so um kind of bombastic and annoying. But um the Bliss Carmen really um ah he's making it up, but he does a good job. Like it feels very, um, Sappho in spirit, the things that he is sort of filling in. So, um, I have an appreciation for a lot of those poems, um, in, in his section of the book. Um, even though it's not, I would never call them Sappho. I wouldn't necessarily say it's Sappho is based off Sappho, but it's Blitz Carmen's work. Um, uh, but they still have a lot of the same energy that I find really attractive, I guess. Um,
01:20:01
Speaker
But anyway, okay. I think that's everything. Yeah, I'll put those in the a description, the forms in the description. Contact information. Please, um if you want to talk about Sappho with me, if you have any questions, if I was too confusing and rambling and And not making any sense to anyone but myself.
01:20:23
Speaker
Shoot me a message. Let me know. Ask me questions. Talk to me. ah I'm down for whatever. So um thank you. And next time i will see you. We will be talking to another Zenite.
01:20:37
Speaker
So yeah Hope you're all having a good time. And I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening.