Golden Age: Josephine Tey

Transcript

Speaker: Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke, and we both love mystery. hi Brooke. Hi, Sarah.

Speaker: I'm looking forward to discussing with you today another Golden Age mystery author. i am too, and in today's episode, we are going to be speaking about Josephine Teg.

Speaker: Josephine Tay is one of the pen names that was used by Elizabeth McIntosh. To keep this simple, I will refer to her as Tay, though those closest to her knew her as Beth.

Speaker: She was the eldest of three daughters, born in 1896 to a fruit seller and a teacher in Inverness, Scotland. During much of the First World War, she studied to be a PE teacher and went on to provide fitness classes to factory workers and volunteer as a nurse in a convalescent home.

Speaker: After the war, she taught in England until returning to live with her father in 1923, following her mother's death. It was around this time that she began entering writing contests as Gordon Daviot, and it was under this name that her first mystery novel, The Man in the Cue, was published in 1929.

Speaker: As Daviot, she enjoyed success with plays, though none were as well-received as her first one, and only four were ever actually produced during her lifetime. In addition to writing for the stage, using that pen name, Tay also wrote for the screen and radio, as well as wrote several short stories, poetry, and some additional novels.

Speaker: Her second mystery was published in 1937 and was credited to Josephine Tay, as were the rest of her publications in that genre. She appears to have kept her writing personas and her personal life very separate and generally avoided public life. She refused to give interviews, and I hope we discuss this a little bit, Brooke.

Speaker: When Tay died of cancer in 1952, few people even knew that she was sick. However, she left behind a legacy as the author of what is considered to be one of the best mysteries of all time.

Speaker: Thank you, Sarah. That was such a great summary. This is someone who I knew very little about. i think I say that quite often. But um it was it was really fun learning about her, especially given the read-along we've done of The Daughter of Time.

Speaker: Yeah, I didn't know very much about her either. And there were a few interesting things that that I learned in my research. So I didn't realize that she had used a couple of pen names. I, you know, I mentioned Gordon Daviat in the intro and then I read a biography about her and in that the author Jennifer Morag Henderson and one one of the things that she uncovered in her research for this book was that there was actually a third pen name that is not very widely known.

Speaker: Interesting. Yes, she was definitely a an introverted person who kept away from not only publicity, but even kind of the center of the Golden Age mystery author world, which would have been London at this time. And she was living, as you said, in Inverness, Scotland with her dad. So she had this distance from kind of the center of things, I guess.

Speaker: Yeah, so she, um towards the last, let's say, a third of her life, would spend a few weeks a year in London. And she might go down ah twice a year, spend a couple of weeks, return to Inverness to be with her father. And my understanding is that those two weeks were filled with social engagements, attending theater productions, because I think that was a really important thing to her, even if it wasn't one of her productions. I think she really enjoyed the theater. um and And then also just, you know, meeting with people about either horror. her writing or script writing or or, you know, various projects that that she was working on.

Speaker: She seemed to keep that really separate from her life in Inverness. In an interview with the author you mentioned on the She Done It podcast, i learned that something that was a big advantage to Josephine Tay was that she did live with her dad who was involved in this family business. And so it took some of the pressure off of her to have to be producing, say, a book a year or um like some of her peers were doing, like

Speaker: very commercialized and like regimented business schedule that could explain some of the lengths of time between books of hers. But then I think that was just kind of part of her creative process too.

Speaker: Well, and she was working on a number of things, right? So screenplays, she she wrote, um i think at least one screenplay for Hollywood. The BBC commissioned her to write radio plays. So she she would have been working on a bunch of different projects. And I think there was a gap in...

Speaker: um what she produced during the Second World War, which is understandable because there was a lot going on. But you mentioned, you know, other Golden Age authors. So her first mystery came out in 1929. And that was really ah a prime time for mystery, right? Agatha Christie's um Roger Ackroyd had come out in 1926. Dorothy Sayers had released a couple of books in the in the Lord Peter Whimsey series by then. so

Speaker: It was a um ah vibrant time for for mystery authors. And that that book, The Man in the Q, is very readable in the 21st century.

Speaker: That's right. That was like a pivotal time and precisely the time that the Detection Club comes to be founded. um Now, Tay was not a member of the club. Is that right, Sarah?

Speaker: Yeah, so she was um invited to join the club, but didn't ever participate in that initiation ceremony. Remember, we talked about in our Detection Club episode, and it's attending that ceremony that makes you officially a member. So her biographer did uncover ah letters exchanged between her and Dorothy L. Sayers with Sayers inviting Tay to join the club.

Speaker: And um I think Tay was quite pleased to have been invited. This was towards the end of Tay's life, and she just did not end up ever having the opportunity to participate in that initiation event, and so never formally joined the club.

Speaker: Oh, that's very sad. In fact, the the end of her life is quite sad because she was really kind of getting her feet under her in the mystery world. um She had been quite successful as a playwright, it seems. um I mean, you did mention she only had four plays performed, but she her name was known as a playwright. But it is just sad that she didn't have more time to explore you the world of the mystery genre that she was writing in.

Speaker: Yeah, so you're right about her success as a playwright. So her first play had a year-long run um and was ah quite popular and kind of started the careers of a couple of the performers in it. So she was, I think, very well respected as a playwright. um But you're right, you know, if you kind of think about her...

Speaker: um her career, the first part ah was the short stories and and with the exception of that one mystery in 1929, really wasn't, mystery wasn't her focus. So it was almost a decade later before she published another mystery. um and then it was really after the war that I think she found that momentum. The Daughter of Time, i think, was published in 1951.

Speaker: As we talked about in the read along, that is considered to be one of the best mystery novels of all time. And that was published shortly before she died. So you have to imagine that she had more that she she she could have produced had she lived longer.

Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, you mentioned 1937, that was a shilling for candles. And I loved learning that that was adapted by Alfred Hitchcock for his film, Young and Innocent. And, you know, he was known for not really liking whodunits because he did a completely opposite thing in his movies, which was to tell the audience more than the characters knew. And that builds that.

Speaker: really agonizing suspense and psychological tension but I think it says a lot about his choice to adapt Tay's work um because I think in some ways her mysteries did lean towards more of that thriller and character driven suspense more than just the black and white puzzle mystery yeah I I would agree you know um So I've read The Man in the Q and we read together The Daughter of Time. And those are two different books because in The Daughter of Time, her detective Grant,

Speaker: doesn't leave his bed. Right. And he's investigating ah a historical mystery in the man in the queue. It's a more traditional detective story. He's in but meeting with suspects and, and, you know, there's a, there's a chase. um But it really isn't until the very end that, um that the solution is, is revealed. And,

Speaker: I think she she did it in ah a very clever way. And and i won't I won't reveal it because I do think it's worth a read. Like I said, it it's very accessible to readers in the present day.

Speaker: Interesting that we mentioned The Daughter of Time and Alfred Hitchcock in the same conversation because we noticed that there was a big similarity in The Daughter of Time. Our main character is laid up in bed and unable to get out and about, which is very similar to one of Alfred Hitchcock's famous movies, Rear Window, um where, of course, the character is laid up in bed and anna is re

Speaker: has to resort to telephoto lenses and binoculars. So there are some similarities there. I think that they could have really hit it off. Yeah. I don't, you know, I, I don't know if they ever met. I, I, um, I don't think she went to, the U S, um, even when her, her book was adopted by, by Hitchcock.

Speaker: Well, you mentioned how in The Daughter of Time, it's a very different type of detective story. And Tay did seem to deliberately break some of those fair play rules, didn't she? um And I have heard people say that that's why she didn't join the detection club, which we have debunked. We have found the true invitation. But she she did it differently than some of the other authors. um

Speaker: And I wonder where that came from. You know, she wasn't a classically trained writer, so to speak. Like she didn't go to to school to learn to be a writer. This was something that just kind of grew out of her interests.

Speaker: I don't know. That's a good question, Brooke. um You're right. She didn't ah she didn't study to be a writer. um But I think writing was all was always something that she was interested And

Speaker: and maybe the better way to say it is that she was willing to experiment and and have the mystery unfold in different ways. um And i I find that really interesting about her.

Speaker: Yeah, i think I think that's right. Like, you know, when we talked about the Daughter of Time, um it is an unusual mystery, right? In the, in the way that it's told. Um, and, uh, but it's still very good. Um, and I, I will read the, read some more of her books because I really have enjoyed what I've read so far.

Speaker: And you have read more of her books than I have, Sarah. What is, because The Daughter of Time doesn't give us a regular picture of Inspector Alan Grant, what kind of a character is he? Like, how does he ah compare to Lord Peter Whimsey or some of the other Golden Age sleuths?

Speaker: So he is independently wealthy, um but that's because he's inherited some money. So it's not, you know, where whimsy has grown up in the establishment, if you will. i I don't think that that's the case for Grant, but he is described as being very dapper.

Speaker: And I think, you know, he's an attractive detective. He's also very kind and um open-minded, right? He's not, he doesn't set his sights on a particular answer and, and fit the facts to make, to make that answer the, the, the truth. Um, but he likes, uh, he likes good food. There's a few mentions of him visiting, um in, in the man in the queue, there's a few mentions of him visiting, uh, uh, um, uh, a particular restaurant and where he's well known because I guess he frequents, um, he frequents there a fair amount. Um,

Speaker: But yeah, he's, he's a, uh, he's well-dressed and I think well-liked as a detective. Well, that's great. I, you know, we've said before that you can see some of the author in their sleuth. And so I think that tells us a little bit about Tay as well.

Speaker: I think that's true. And I think the other thing that I would mention, and you know, we see this in the Daughter of Time, um but I think it's also mentioned in the man in the queue that he is known for being very, astute at being able to look at someone and from their face, you know, make a, make a judgment about, about who their character. Yeah. I liked that about him in that story.

Speaker: Well, Sarai, did you learn anything about the way um Josephine Tay did her writing or her schedule or anything like that? So nothing really specific, except that I think she really enjoyed the research part of writing. And so that suggests to me that she probably was someone who spent a lot of time thinking about the story, perhaps plotting it out more than being a discovery writer.

Speaker: Interesting. Yeah, that would make sense to me for someone who really likes the research. And I can see that about her in the little bit I've read of her work. I can see that she would like to learn and research her stories.

Speaker: I will mention as well that I read a book um from a series written by Nicola Upson, who has Josephine Tay as her sleuth.

Speaker: So this is a series of books. mysteries. They're not cozy. um Certainly the one that I read was ah quite dark. ah But she has Josephine Tay as the sleuth and has her as this person who has quite a social life.

Speaker: The theater plays a role in the one story that I read. So I think, you know, she's honoring that truth of of Josephine Tay's life that that theater was was really important to her. um And i I really enjoyed that book. I'll probably read at least a few more in that series as well.

Speaker: Oh, that's wonderful. I'm putting it on my list. And even though Josephine Tay's creative life was cut too short, I'm happy to hear that other writers are, you know, helping her live on in the literary world.

Speaker: So what what I liked about the book by Nicola Upson that I read is that she has, i think, imagined um,

Speaker: Slightly different life for Josephine Tay that is perhaps a little bit more affording her a little bit more time for that, those creative pursuits that she might not have actually had. So it would be interesting if we ever get the opportunity to have her on and and talk to her about that.

Speaker: Oh, that sounds great, Sarah. Well, Brooke, it has been a lot of fun to discuss the life of Josephine Tay, a Golden Age author, even though she wasn't a member of the Detection Club.

Speaker: That's right. Thank you for all your research. This has been so fun today, Sarah. And we hope that you enjoyed our discussion today too, listeners. But for now, thank you for joining us on Include in Mystery.

Speaker: I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery. Clued in Mystery is written and produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen. Music is by Shane Ivers.

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