Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Verity. I'm your host, Felicia Masonheimer, an author, speaker, and Bible teacher. This podcast will help you embrace the history and depth of the Christian faith, ask questions, seek answers, and devote yourself to becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ. You don't have to settle for watered -down Christian teaching. And if you're ready to go deeper, God is just as ready to take you there. This is Verity, where every woman is a theologian.
Speaker: Well friends, we are in the very last episode of the Women's Issue series. This has been so much fun and I'm so glad to have this series available as a resource to back listen and refer to as these questions come up. And again, I know that this is just a really big picture view of these topics, but I'm hoping that it inspires you to go deeper
Speaker: on the individual themes of these episodes if you are so inclined. So in this episode, we're just going to talk about the questions that some of you had related to the previous episodes. This won't be a deep dive. I'm just doing a quick Q &A over the Women's Issues series. And so the first question that we had was, how does Jesus relate to women since he was incarnated as a man?
Speaker: And that is a great question. Jesus didn't come as a man and God revealed himself with male pronouns. So how can Jesus and God sympathize with women and their struggles if Jesus was a man?
Speaker: To answer this, you have to realize, first, Genesis 1, 27 to 28 tells us that both man and woman were made in God's image. So just because God has revealed himself using a male pronoun, using the term father, I will be a father to you, you will be a son to me, he also uses a lot of language reflective of the nurture and motherly nature of himself.
Speaker: So for instance, Jesus, when he talks about Jerusalem, says, oh, Jerusalem, I wish that I could gather you as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. That's a motherly sort of analogy between himself and Jerusalem. We also see that the character traits of Jesus and of God himself, of compassion and kindness and love, of gently leading those with young,
Speaker: we have attributed these different characteristics to certain genders. And I would say that this attribution actually is a reflection of our fallen nature and the way that we have divided up certain character traits
Speaker: of the Lord as male and female, specifically. And we're going to talk a little bit more about this because there's another question about it later on. But the idea that courage or logic are male actions or male attributes of God, and then you have nurture and kindness and compassion is female attributes. And therefore, you know, because God is not reflecting himself as a female or Jesus did not incarnate as a female, that these attributes don't make sense.
Speaker: That's us messing things up, theologically. These attributes of God do not have a gender, and all the goodness that we see in both genders all began in Him. He made both man and woman.
Speaker: So everything that we are was first found in him. And so this is not saying, oh, God is a woman. It's not changing his identity. He is a spirit. He has no actual gender, but he chose to use certain language in how he revealed himself through history. And that doesn't mean he can't relate to women because he made women.
Speaker: He designed us the way that we are. And we see Jesus' interactions with women as evidence that he can relate to women and have compassion on their situations, such as the woman at the well and the woman with the issue of blood, which was she was hemorrhaging.
Speaker: It's these stories, these examples of how God interacted with women who were infertile and women who were poor and women who needed to be honored and dignified in a society that neither honored nor dignified them. In those situations and passages of scripture, we see God's heart for women and that he can identify with us in everything. Next question is,
Speaker: Is it unbiblical to get an epidural? And to answer this question, I would recommend that you go back and listen to the birth episode. Short answer is no, it's not. And I say that as a woman who's had three unmedicated home births. So I will not say more about that. I'll say go back and listen to the birth episode for an explanation.
Speaker: Okay, third question is dealing with masculine emotions, anger, competition, logic. How do we do this? And so I wanted to answer this because of what I just talked about.
Speaker: We as fallen humans have decided that certain emotions are masculine and certain emotions are feminine. And then when we don't see those specific emotions reflected in a certain gender, we act as if there's something wrong. So I too am very competitive. I struggle with anger. I'm very logical and pragmatic. Now my husband is very kind.
Speaker: patient, compassionate, and sensitive to the needs of others. Does that mean that my husband is less of a man? Well, if that were the case, Jesus would be less of a man. And we know that's not true. These attributes, these characteristics, as far as they reflect the heart and holiness of God, do not have a specific gender assigned to them.
Speaker: A woman can be logical if her logic is consistent with the character of God. A man can be nurturing and compassionate because these are things that are consistent with the character of God. We do not get to assign a specific gender to biblical values and virtues. These are things that should be found in all children of God. And I think we run into this most when we talk about, for instance, the fruit of the spirit.
Speaker: How often do you hear men being told to pursue gentleness? And yet gentleness is a fruit of the spirit. It's not a fruit of the spirit for women. It's a fruit of the spirit for all believers in Christ. And in my specific relationship with my husband, the person who needs to practice gentleness the most is me. So we need to be thinking, what is the Holy Spirit working in me? How does he want me to grow and emulate the character of God, not
Speaker: Is this fruit of the spirit more male or more female? I think all of us have been at a women's conference where we were told, you are a beautiful daughter of the Most High King. And it's true, but it's not the whole truth. The beauty of being God's daughter has some backstory and it's left out in a lot of messages preached to women.
Speaker: So if you're tired of hearing the watered down Christian teaching and you're hungry for a deeper spiritual life, I have something for you. It's my brand new book, Stop Calling Me Beautiful, Finding Soul Deep Strength in a Skin Deep World. Stop Calling Me Beautiful is a book about going deeper with God.
Speaker: I'm going to talk about pursuing the truths of who God is and who we are in relationship to Him, how to study scripture, how legalism, shallow theology, and false teaching keep us from living boldly as a woman of the Word. I'm so excited to put this book in your hands. You can grab your copy on Amazon, or for more information, head to my website FeliciaMasonheimer .com and click the book tab.
Speaker: Next question is, why did Paul prohibit teaching for women in the church? I would recommend going back, listening to the marriage and church episodes of this series because we dive deep into this and explore the different views and stances on this. But the short answer is that Paul was prohibiting most likely, this is one view of several,
Speaker: He was prohibiting an unhealthy teaching environment, a teaching where the woman was trying to take authority, run the show, essentially. We know that women were permitted to interact and lead in certain capacities in the church body.
Speaker: including as Deaconesses, including in discipling leaders in the church because Priscilla actually discipled alongside her husband. She discipled Apollos and brought him back from wayward theology. We see women heads of churches, whatever that means. They were they were hosting churches in their houses. So whatever that looks like, there were many different women doing that. And then we know women were prophesying in
Speaker: the church and that Paul encouraged this and the appropriate attire and behavior for women who are prophesying. So we know women were not completely silent. We know they had a role in leading in the church. What we see in I believe it's First Timothy that talks about women not teaching specifically uses a word for authority that indicates a selfish or domineering authority.
Speaker: Now, that can be interpreted still to mean that women should not be teaching over men, so as a senior pastor kind of situation. But whenever we talk about today's modern church, we also have to remember that the early church looked very different than your modern mega church did with a single CEO pastor, so to speak. And so that can be a player as well in interpreting this passage. I would go back, listen to the church episode, and it will give you more context.
Speaker: Next question is, 1 Corinthians 11, head coverings. Can you expound more on this? Yes. So in 1 Corinthians 11, we see a passage talking about the appropriate attire for women who are praying or prophesying in the church and that women need to have their head covered as a symbol of their husband's authority.
Speaker: so that they can be a witness to the angels. Now, the whole situation with the angels is a little bit crazy, and that's a conversation for another day. But basically, there is a biblical precedent for the idea that angels witness the behavior of humans and their interaction with the Lord. So basically, our behavior is not just a witness to other humans, but also a witness to the angels. It's really interesting.
Speaker: So, 1 Corinthians 11, the head coverings are a symbol of authority and submission, a symbol in that specific culture of a woman submitting to her husband's authority. And this would have been a pretty big deal because women who did not cover their head in this culture were often prostitutes.
Speaker: And so for women to take their freedom in Christ and say, I'm no longer going to cover my head and I'm going to do what I want to do, it really became confusing for the culture that they were in.
Speaker: Now the question is, is this just a cultural command or is this a command that can last to today? And my personal view is that the spirit of the command still stands today. I uphold this actually as one of the passages that does encourage us as wives to be in submission to our husbands.
Speaker: and to know more about my stance on that and the variety of views on it, go back and listen to the marriage episode. But this means I don't wear a head covering when I pray or when I prophesy. In prophecy, again, we discuss that in both marriage and the church episodes. But I do believe that I am to be in submission to my husband, which means
Speaker: be at peace with my husband, be in unity with my husband, not be doing things that are in direct contradiction to my husband's loving will for our family. Now, what this means is my husband is not sitting here saying, Felicia, you can't do this and you can do that because we're in unity. And he is also deferring to me, submitting if you will, but either whatever term suits your fancy, there's several different definitions.
Speaker: we are in unity together. So because my husband is laying himself down for me as Christ laid himself down for the church, Ephesians 5, and I am also deferring to him, we are at peace. There is no power struggle or conflict or wondering who's the boss, or basically, in the end, our complementarian marriage looks very egalitarian, and most people assume that we are theologically.
Speaker: But in our home, we do hold to what is called complementarian theology. We just don't look like it because there's no power struggle. And I think that in a healthy marriage that's following the pattern laid out in scripture, that's exactly what it looks like.
Speaker: When it comes to head coverings then, the question is, are we fulfilling the spirit of this? Are we at peace in our marriages, in unity with our husbands? And is the spirit of that covering being fulfilled? Now in some traditions, they will actually wear a physical head covering, which is fine too. Oh my gosh, I'm holding the baby and he just burped. So if you heard that in the background, I'm sorry.
Speaker: but essentially when it comes to head coverings you'll have to do a little bit more research but there's a variety of views on it and ultimately it comes back to the spirit of the law or the physical observance of a head covering and ultimately I believe points to a complementary and interpretation of scripture.
Speaker: The next question is, how important is it that your church affirms your view of women? I think this really depends on the church and depends on what you are doing in the church. So if it's a spiritually abusive, complementarian church, then I think it's really important that you get out of that church. If they are misinterpreting what authority and submission are and mean and using it to control people, then that's not a healthy environment and you shouldn't be there.
Speaker: If you are in a church where holding a certain view of women creates a divide, whether there are other people in the church being divisive or if your views are divisive, then I think maybe it's time to move on to a church where you can truly support their theology on this topic.
Speaker: if you can be in the church with your theology and perhaps you differ a little bit from the doctrinal statement of the church and yet they still give you freedom to serve and the disagreements do not result in divisiveness, then I don't see any reason why you should leave. I've been in many different churches over the years and have had
Speaker: differences of opinion on these passages and have never had to leave a church over it. But these churches have all been healthy with very open -minded and open -handed staff who were willing to let me use my gifts and I also
Speaker: was willing to submit to the doctrinal statement of that church because that's where we were in that season. I was not going to seek to be divisive on this topic. And so it really is subjective depending on the nature of the church and what you are trying to do within the church. Next question is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to women? Hmm, I would have to say,
Speaker: My advice would be to dig deep into the Word of God on every topic, of course, and don't be afraid to read multiple views, especially to read outside your long -held views. The things I've shared in this series are things that I have studied personally for many years in order to understand what other people think.
Speaker: and it has developed and changed my personal views over time to where I stand today. But I'm still always studying and learning. And I think that if women became more confident in digging into what they believe and why they believe it and how it affects their daily life, it would not only improve their witness,
Speaker: But it would give them so much more confidence in their personal walk with God and knowing the heart of God that is love and kindness and justice and who is the defender of women and who has invited women to be part of his mission to reach the world. Okay, last question. Am I going to write a book on this?
Speaker: I am not. There are so many great books that have been written on this topic. I could never redo the good that has been done. And if you want to read a few, I have linked them in many of the show notes on the blog for this series. But a couple that I do recommend, Half the Church by Carolyn Custis James, Worthy by Elise Fitzpatrick and Eric Shoemaker, Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood by Amy Bird,
Speaker: Is the Bible Good for Women? by Wendy Alsup. And there are some more out there too. I think there's a couple Paul and gender, beyond authority and submission, neither complementarian nor egalitarian. All of these will offer you different perspectives on this topic that will help you process what your role is in the world and how God is using you and your gifts to reach it.
Speaker: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Verity. You can connect with fellow listeners by following me on Instagram at Felicia Masonheimer or on our Facebook page by the same name. Also visit FeliciaMasonheimer .com for links to each episode and the show notes.
