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Episode 2: Alex Cheney
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⚠️ Content Warning: This episode contains mentions of suicide. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please contact 988 in the U.S. for free and confidential support, available 24/7.
In this powerful episode of Conversations for Change, we’re joined by Alex Cheney: consultant, singer, mental health advocate, and future doctorate-holder. Alex opens up about his personal journey through anxiety, depression, and discovering his potential neurodivergence. Together, we dive into topics like the stigma around men’s mental health, the challenges of finding the right therapist, and the importance of chosen family and community support.
Alex also shares how his upcoming autism assessment is shaping his evolving self-understanding, and how he’s turning lived experience into advocacy, especially in the workplace. This episode is packed with relatable moments, heartfelt vulnerability, and a shared message: the world needs more people like you, exactly as you are.
Whether you're on your own mental health journey, supporting someone else, or simply curious to learn, this conversation will leave you thinking, and hopefully, feeling a little more connected.
Connect with Alex:
🌐 alittlebitalex.com
📧 alex@alittlebitalex.com
🔗 LinkedIn: Alex Cheney (look for the rainbow flag and unicorn 🏳️🌈🦄)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Alex Cheney's multifaceted life
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Conversations for Change, a podcast from the Nurturing Tomorrow Foundation. Today, we are joined by Alex Cheney, a consultant, singer, and mental health advocate who's been on a powerful journey of healing, self-discovery, and breaking the stigma around anxiety, depression, and neurodiversity.
00:00:23
Speaker
As always, a quick reminder, we are not mental health professionals. Everything shared today is from personal experience and perspective. If you are in need of support, we encourage you to please, please, please reach out to a licensed provider.
00:00:39
Speaker
Alex, thank you so much for being here with us and just opening up. As we mentioned, we just think it is so important to have these
Alex's musical journey and family influence
00:00:49
Speaker
conversations. So I'm so interested though at first, let's dive in because ah ah life a lifelong ah dream of mine is to be an acapella singer and work at a paper company.
00:01:01
Speaker
So I'm super interested to know what kind of singer you are So um my undergrad degree is actually in music. um i studied opera.
00:01:13
Speaker
i my My first, like like, I guess, voice lessons were were in classical music. The stories that I heard when I was growing up is that I was singing before I could talk. ah So um yeah my mom was ah my mom was a voice major in college. My parents met singing together at Duke University.
00:01:32
Speaker
like So it's music has been in my life like since I was born. um But ah while I was trained in opera, I much prefer like doing Broadway, musical theater,
00:01:44
Speaker
ah stuff like that. I'm also ah ah relatively new member of the Palm Springs Gay Men's Chorus. um So i get to get to have my singing outlet with them as well.
00:01:57
Speaker
ah I mean, wow, amazing. ah Back to where your parents met at the Duke Chapel. the rock the The acoustics in there are great are crazy, right? Yes. what ah What an amazing place to fall in love.
00:02:12
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I got to go back with them. They had a yeah, they had a reunion, like a chorus choir reunion at one point ah when I was a kid. And so I got to go back and like hear everybody saying and and be in there.
00:02:24
Speaker
was It was a pretty awesome experience.
00:02:28
Speaker
Wow. Wow. That is awesome. That that root that really is super awesome. I have a love for singing as well. um Although my family has encouraged me to sing solo when no one is watching, preferably when they're out of the house. My three-year-old actually tells me to quiet down sometimes while I'm in the car.
00:02:53
Speaker
Well, I guess everyone's a critic these days. Everyone's a critic. Everyone's a critic. So also a fun fact, we both have a shared love for Elton John on road trips as well. Can you tell me about some recent road trips you've been on?
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, actually, actually just finished one. um So a really good friend of mine, i lived in Vegas for 10 years. And so one of my best friends um from that time in Vegas just got a really awesome promotion with her job, which ended up relocating her to Norfolk, Virginia.
00:03:27
Speaker
um And since I grew up in that that area of Virginia, when she told me that this was going to be a possibility, I said, if this happens, and that if when this happens, um i'm I'm helping you move. I'm coming with you. I'm just letting you know that. And we kind kind of laughed about that. So we took five days. We left from Vegas, drove across the country, did some little side trips. We went to like four corners. i'd always wanted to go I'm a huge geography nerd, so I'd always wanted to go to four corners and stand on all four states at once.
00:03:56
Speaker
um We stopped, up we visited some friends in St. Louis. Yeah. And so we we both kind of, we we had our we had our own playlists. And so the playlist was dictated by whoever was driving.
00:04:07
Speaker
um And so hers was more like that. like As it should be. Yeah, exactly. But hers was more of like the like the emo type of pop emo rock. And of course, mine is like, you know going to like the dance club. And so it was Whitney and Elton and and all sorts of stuff.
00:04:22
Speaker
ah Were you singing at like the top of your lungs, just like in
When did you realize you needed help with mental health?
00:04:27
Speaker
the car? Because I'm sure after the first couple of days, you're just like, well, she stuck with me at this point. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't like it.
00:04:36
Speaker
Well, the good thing is, is that the way that we became friends was through a production of Sounded Music that we were both in in Las Vegas. um So we both sing. So that was actually, yeah that was actually a good thing. we We broke out some harmonies occasionally, too.
00:04:51
Speaker
Alex, let's talk about your ah kind of mental health story. So um when did you first realize something was was going on with your mental health and you know what did that look like? Was an anxiety, depression, um et cetera?
00:05:12
Speaker
um So it was a mix of both, um the anxiety and the depression. um i finally started putting pieces together, I would say in the early, like late 2018, early 2019. I was going through some, you know, some personal things, some relationship stuff. And was getting to my, I was getting to a point where I knew that something needed to change with the relationship. I knew, i knew it needed to end.
00:05:45
Speaker
And I had gotten myself into a mental place thinking that if I were to end it, that I would lose my friends, I would lose my support system, I would lose all of this. And so maybe the easiest thing to do was to take me out of the equation. um And so that's when um and that's when I started thinking, like, what the hell? am what the hell like like Why am I thinking this way? And I was actually sitting at work one day and work would work tended to be the place that i could get my brain to jump shut those thoughts off i could focus on work i could focus on um i'm a recruiter so i could get on the phone and talk to candidates and kind of you know really engage with other people and and things like that and there was just this one day at work it was toward the end of january in 2019 and i couldn't shake it i couldn't shake it and my palms got all sweaty and i was like okay i need to do something and so i
00:06:43
Speaker
looked at my um health, health insurance benefits, who can I talk to, I say, I think I need to see a psychiatrist. And so I called a psychiatrist, they saw me the next day. um and I just kind of verbal diarrhea, everything that I had been, you know, thinking about the last, you know, several
How did talking about mental health help you and others?
00:07:00
Speaker
years. And um that's when that's when I first heard the words like, you know, generalized anxiety disorder, and depression and,
00:07:09
Speaker
you know, we were talking about my, my, my thoughts of suicide, and I had gotten myself thinking that people that was a normal thing that people thought about, I didn't realize that that was not normal. um And so like, as we were, as we were talking about this, and you know she will put me on a on a on a medication, um i was starting to realize that the things I have been thinking, and the way that my brain was operating, I could take it back, I could take it back, like to when I was a kid,
00:07:39
Speaker
Um, and, and certain things like how certain would trigger me and how, how I was always a person that was, I was always worried about what everybody else would think. Like if I did this and if I did what I wanted to do, I don't think people are going to like it. And I think people are going to hate me. So I'm just not going to do what I want to do and so and suffer so that I can make everybody happy.
00:07:58
Speaker
Um, and so that kind of is what started my process. And then through that, I, I originally was keeping it very quiet. I was like, I felt, I felt, I would don't want to say that I felt shame, but I just felt like this is very personal. Nobody needs to know about this. You know, I can do this. I can take my pill quietly and, you know, things can even out.
00:08:21
Speaker
And then a couple months later, i saw something on Facebook or so or where somebody had talked about, you know, they had just lost somebody to suicide or something like this. And I was like, you know what, my my being quiet about my journey is not helping anybody.
00:08:34
Speaker
And so I started talking about it and people, you know, people were just like, I can't believe that you've been going through this and you didn't, you haven't said anything. Thank you so much for being so open. Thank you for, for, you know, um taking us on this journey. And I think it was also because there are so many stigmas, but there are especially stigmas about mental health for men.
00:08:55
Speaker
And I think it was that when you, when they saw somebody, when they saw somebody that on the outside, looked very successful, looked very happy, looked you know, always, you know, seemed to be the life of the party when they understood that I was having struggles.
00:09:11
Speaker
I think that also helped people realize, oh, there are some things in my life, maybe I can benefit from talking with somebody, maybe I can benefit, you know, sharing my story. And so that's kind of, that's kind of how it started and and and why I've been so vocal about my journey. I mean, and then it's ever evolving. Like there, there, I'm learning new things about, about, you know, my own mental health, um, every single day.
00:09:36
Speaker
And, and, you know, it's, and I think it's platforms like this where I can come and talk about that or anybody can come and talk about that. That's really going to help people, you know, in the future. i I, I think that is so relatable coming from a standpoint where you, you know,
00:09:52
Speaker
you were looking around and and thinking, everyone around me has their life together. They're feeling good. They're happy. This is inside. This is wrong with me. But you also mentioned at the same time, you knew when your peer group, your your your circles were viewing you, they saw the life of the party, someone that looked happy.
00:10:12
Speaker
And you when you put yourself in that perspective, you know you you really think, well, what's wrong with me? I have all these wonderful things, you know, um ah success, ah family, a support group. why Why should I feel this way? And right then you don't consider that everyone else that you're looking at and from the outside, they look like they've got it together on the inside.
00:10:36
Speaker
They could be struggling just like you are. Right. Right. I think it was also like once I finally met with a psychiatrist and, you know, she put it in a really simple way to me. She's like, you know, you also need to set up time to see a therapist.
00:10:50
Speaker
She's like, you know, I'm the chemist. I'm going to help your brain chemistry. And the therapist is going to help you work through the feelings you're having and how you can, you know,
00:11:01
Speaker
Be able to understand when things are starting, how you can help them. And when I thought about it that way, i was like, it kind of helped take some of the shame away. and that like, this is, this is something going on in my brain that I just can't control. Like, like my, my chemistry, my chemistry is off.
00:11:18
Speaker
um I've always, I've always joked that little off kilter. And so it was kind of like, you know, oh it was kind like, oh, i actually am, um you know, and, and understanding that, that it's just something that I can't control, or that I, it's just part of who I am, really helped me to understand that, like, I don't need to be, I don't need to feel any shame about this, I should talk about this, because um know there's other people struggling, that probably think that they shouldn't talk about this, but it's something that they just can't even control.
00:11:47
Speaker
It's, you said something as, as you were talking about how, you know, you're still learning today. And the way I've been thinking about that as well is I'm not just learning about kind of today and the path forward, but I'm also relearning some of the stuff that's happened in the past.
00:12:09
Speaker
yeah And you you also made the comment about like, oh, I've kind of always thought this way or or, you know, for a long time thought these things. And, you know, I've also looked back where it's like, wait, I did that thing when I was younger that, you know, felt off and I had no explanation for it.
00:12:29
Speaker
But now I'm starting to learn that there's a reason for it. um And, you know, at least for me, one of the reasons why I like you know talking about um how I am and and who I am today is you know not only to help the folks that are our age, but as we're interacting with people with children and and stuff like that, how can we use you know our story from the time we were born to today and in the future to help kind of
00:13:07
Speaker
improve their lives as well. We didn't have the internet when I was, you know, eight, nine, 10 years old. Well, not the internet of today at least. And so like, how can we use this, this, this thing that we have to, to help tell a story that those kids, those families may not, um right see every day.
00:13:29
Speaker
so for sure but you were diagnosed with,
Challenges of finding the right therapist
00:13:32
Speaker
um, anxiety uh did it start with uh sorry were you diagnosed anxiety and depression at the same time or did one kind of okay um and your treatment really started with the psychologist you you saw you said right away and then you started going to to therapy um Are you still going to therapy today? know, or I'm not. I'm not. And that's, there's several reasons for that. um So I was living in Las Vegas when all of this happened. um and that
00:14:08
Speaker
All of this happened. That said it. That's not a bad when I made these discoveries. um And so I ended up um after I finally i went through my divorce um in the toward the end of 2019, I ah ended up relocating to Long Beach, California, um like two weeks before the entire world shut down.
00:14:30
Speaker
Um, so, uh, because I had left the state, my therapist, obviously couldn't, you know, couldn't see me over state lines. So I did, I have looked for a couple, but as you know, as I'm, I don't need to explain this to to other mental health folks, finding the right therapist is really difficult. I got really lucky in Vegas that my first one was fantastic.
00:14:52
Speaker
Um, so I haven't, um, I'm not currently seeing a therapist. I do think it's something that I want to start again. I'm in a little bit of a location transition period again.
00:15:04
Speaker
we're, we're up in the Bay for a little bit. I'm trying to sell a house up here and then maybe be back in Palm Springs. And so I will, I mean, there's tons of resources at Palm Springs, um, especially for the LGBTQ community.
00:15:15
Speaker
Um, so I'm sure I can find um something there, but. You know, I'm also going to be, I actually, i think this is probably something that we were going to talk about a little bit later in the in the conversation. So I might be opening the door a a little too early, but um in a couple of weeks, I act ah in a couple weeks i actually am going through a and the evaluation process for autism spectrum disorder.
00:15:38
Speaker
Awesome. Because that is something that also that as I've been on my mental health journey changed kind of come up and you know, again, knowing that, like, my understanding how my brain chemistry is not necessarily the same as other people's is ah learning that, okay, why? And and so some of the behaviors that I have, some of the ways that I interact with people,
00:16:05
Speaker
um you know, are these fully, are these specifically anxiety? Is it just that I don't like people? Is it that I need a alone time? Is it, you know, all these different things. And so I'm, that's going to be the next step of this journey. And I think that once that happens, that may open the door again to re reentering the world of therapy because I'm sure it's there's going to be tons of questions and you know what does this mean and then how do I you know how do how does what does this mean for for my relationship with my partner and like like how do I how do I bridge these things so that's kind of that's where I am right now with my journey and therapy I'm super excited for you first and foremost because I know that you and I connected
00:16:47
Speaker
yeah initially on LinkedIn because I posted about my ah autism diagnosis as an adult and and you reached
Why consider an autism evaluation?
00:16:56
Speaker
out with some questions. So i I knew that was a ah possibility for you at some point. um And so I'm super happy. and And, you know, look to your point, finding the right therapist is hard, like yeah really, really hard. and And I know the people who know it know that.
00:17:18
Speaker
And I feel like there's a large group of people out there that just don't realize exactly how hard it is. And then once you add in another diagnosis like autism, that changes the game completely because you then need to find a therapist that's, you know, can touch on everything else.
00:17:36
Speaker
But autism plays such a big part in you know my life that i needed someone who could kind of talk, or I was going to say talk that talk, but like ah know exactly what I was going through.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um I'm super happy that you'll finally, finally be yeah ah going through that process.
00:18:01
Speaker
I would like to add to that, you know, it's, it it is no small feat finding a therapist. I'm super fortunate that ah my therapist now, I met about six months before shutdown um and we developed, ah you know, a really, this was before, I mean, there was, there were online um platforms at this time, but back in late 2019, early 2020, it's not to where it is today. so we really developed a relationship through that struggle. But I have had so many conversations with people over over the years. I mean, so i've I start my started therapy when I was 12.
00:18:40
Speaker
um So from 12 to 36, I don't know how many conversations I've had where people just tell me how much they don't like their therapist. And they just continue to see this person and talk to them. And I'm like,
00:18:53
Speaker
Why, why you know, like you gotta, you gotta really date around, get a feel for it. You know, it's, it's not, if you can't connect, then you're, you're wasting ah ah really valuable time where you could be healing. So I think it's really important. And I'm, I really thank you for sharing, you know, ah that, you know, right now I'm not seeing someone because you are looking for the right one, because I think it is important um to find someone that you can connect with and, and feel open with.
00:19:22
Speaker
For sure. being yourself and safe. Like, say i think, yeah, that's the important really really being able to share Like almost be able to because with anxiety and depression, like we're always just to what you talked about before, Alex, like we're always nervous about like, what are other people thinking about us?
00:19:46
Speaker
Are people going to be thinking, you know, I'm weird or quiet or too loud or somehow all of those things at the same time. And you want that therapist that that you feel safe, that you can just be yourself, talk to.
00:20:01
Speaker
um And you also, like at least for me, I want to feel like my therapist genuinely cares about me. And I know we're not going to be friends and whatever. like They might not think about me after we hang up that call, but I want to feel that she actually you know, genuinely cares, genuinely wants me to get better to the point where hopefully I don't have to talk to her, you know, every two weeks and get to a better point. The last question I had and in kind of the segment was around, you you talked about medication earlier.
00:20:42
Speaker
um You were put on medication after I guess probably a little over five years ago at this point. Um, have you, medication is medications. i had a doctor at one point that explained to me like therapy medication can help, but medication can't fix everything. And medication combined with therapy, um, can, uh,
00:21:11
Speaker
play a really transformative role. Um, how has medication played a role for you? Has it been smooth, put on one medication, stayed on that one medication? Have you had to kind of rotate through what's that kind of look like for you?
00:21:28
Speaker
So again, like I, I just, I feel like I've been a little bit
Experiences with medication for mental health
00:21:32
Speaker
lucky here. Um, uh, so I'm on citalopram, um, which is the generic for Solexa. Um, I've got put on that.
00:21:40
Speaker
ah first. um And then ah that's what I've been on the whole time. There have been a couple of times, there have been a couple times where even like my therapist was like, she was like, you know, I see even though I, my experience with cytokine itself has been fantastic. It's whatever, whatever chemical imbalance or something that's going on, it's definitely smooth that out.
00:22:03
Speaker
um where i I'm not saying it's taken away the anxiety, I'm not saying it's taken away the depression, but it's definitely made it much more manageable. um My therapist wanted to see, you as we were working through some some of the the baggage that I had in my past, and I was able to more freely uncover that, um as we were working through it, she said, you know I feel like the goal here should be that you know, you were able to continue with therapy and we're able to work through these things, but but and see what that would look like with you not being on the medication. Because I feel like she, and said she's like, I feel like the medication is making you almost too, too good where you're not necessarily able to dig in and really deeply to some of your things. And and that what made sense to me. So, um yeah you know, I worked with her to and with her my, my psychologist to, to titrate and I went off the medication and,
00:22:55
Speaker
And it seemed like there were, I have a couple of episodes here and there, but, you know, it was for for, you know, it was pretty, I was, I still felt, you know, pretty, pretty good. for about nine months.
00:23:06
Speaker
And then about nine months after is like things, you know, like it would be like the heart racing when I'm trying to go to bed and, um, you know, all of these things. And, um, and so I had my doctor, my doctor, my, my general, my primary care physician was also a part of all of this. And, you know, I was explaining it to her and, you know, she put me back on the medication and, um, you know, so I've, I've, I've attempted to go off the medication a couple of times when, when I thought that the, the,
00:23:33
Speaker
um triggers in my life were no longer there but then i just have come to realize that there are so many other triggers that are you know deep down um that i don't even realize are there that uh you know and if if if me taking a pill every morning for the rest of my life means that i can sleep at night and that i i don't you know i don't want i don't think about you know taking my own life you know things like that then they're not that's a small price to pay Absolutely.
00:24:04
Speaker
Silence, snap, the self-awareness there chills, seriously. Victoria, i'll pass it on. to you yeah so alex i want to talk back to more you mentioned uh the community that you have in long beach now um and just for the listeners and also for us are there any types of community ah programs or outreach that you have participated in or been involved in that have really been instrumental um in your mental health journey and helping others
Supportive communities and chosen family
00:24:36
Speaker
and yourself? Yeah, for sure. So when I, when I was in Long Beach, so I'm in the Palm Springs area now, but I was in Long Beach for about, you know, about three years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:43
Speaker
No. Um, but that was like pretty soon after like, you know, I had gone on that mental health journey and all of that. So, you know, I, I've been lucky that, um, you know, Long Beach has a very strong, um, LGBTQ population, very supportive population.
00:24:58
Speaker
um you know, there's a, there's a fantastic LGBTQ center in Long Beach. um that would have a lot of um events or, you know, they would have things very specific to, you know, health concerns for our community.
00:25:12
Speaker
They have mental health professionals that were targeted to our community um that really understood some of the the things we go through. And now that I'm in Palm Springs, you know, those those ah similar um resources exist.
00:25:26
Speaker
um I feel like there are even more of them also being ah now being a part of the Palm Springs Gay Men's Chorus. Like that's just opened up an entire new part of the community, um you know, where I think that was something that was and was lacking um in a lot of my life is having that the sense of of community of people that are facing the similar struggles or they they had a similar journey or a similar background.
00:25:54
Speaker
um you know I firmly believe in this this idea of of like your chosen family and and how you know my direct family members dont haven't understood everything that I've gone through.
00:26:08
Speaker
They also haven't understood the part they've played in my mental health journey. you know and Whereas you know now having this really strong group of of the people that I'm calling family,
00:26:21
Speaker
you know, we're able to share these things and have similar conversations about, you know, this happened in my life as well. This is how I, this is how I handled it. This is, this is how I dealt with that situation. And it, and I feel like it, it really helps us open up about these things a lot more.
00:26:36
Speaker
um And so, but yeah, I mean, there are definitely those resources there. I've just found, I've just found so much comfort in having built this really strong community in the Palm Springs area that, um that that that, that really helped.
00:26:50
Speaker
That's beautiful. And back to the the chosen family, gosh, I can really relate to that myself. um I know a few of my friends and I that that we're very close and share our struggles. We kind of have, we just do like a a mental health check. We haven't, you know, life gets busy. We haven't heard from each other in a few weeks. Everybody's got things going on. It doesn't have to be anything, but you know, like just a quick, like, you know, how, yeah you know, you you're doing good. Um,
00:27:18
Speaker
And I think that on on top of being able to open up with someone, you know, where where we just kind of live in a society where it's just if someone asks you how you're doing, you're like, you know, good, hope you are. or Right. Exactly. You know, fine, whatever. I'm fine. if I'm fine. Yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
if If you say something else, they're like, oh, crap. I wish I wouldn't have asked, you know. So ah it's good. yeah It's. It's not not good. it's It's great to have someone or multiple people have that sense of feeling that you it's okay just to not be okay. And you don't, it's sometimes it's all, it's not all, you know, butterflies and ice cream, you know, sometimes it's.
00:28:00
Speaker
melted ice cream and ants on your shoes right yeah and like you know my family and some of my friends that i've i've been friends with my whole life like i know they genuinely mean well when they want to help you know when i'm having a meltdown or i'm having a rough time they genuinely want to i i know there's good intentions there but in in some ways like if you haven't gone through these situations firsthand you you can't almost help as well as that community the kind of the new family you're you're you're building up and you know i've i've been super fortunate in my adulthood to to just make some of the the best friends anyone could ask for and and
00:28:52
Speaker
what you said, Victoria was like, you know, I have a ah really good group of friends that I just don't talk to nearly as much. Life has gotten in the way. I'm busy with so many different things, but you know, my buddy Travis will just message me one time be like, miss you.
00:29:08
Speaker
Love you. I'm like, Thanks. And he seems to always know exactly when I need that the most. I don't know if he's like spying on me or something, but like he always somehow knows there's like that telepathic um rhythm in the air or something where it's just like, and I can go to him and be like,
00:29:29
Speaker
appreciate it Like things have been rough and you know, he'll send me a voice message back or call me or whatever. And like, he's not just, it's not that, Oh crap. I wish I didn't ask. It's the genuine curiosity interest in, in helping. So yeah, for sure.
00:29:48
Speaker
If you could go back ah speaking with me, if you could go back to young Victoria, if you could go back to 15 year old Victoria or 12 year old Victoria, and you know knowing yourself like what is there if the if there anything is there anything that you would say to you so Alex my question to you is if you could speak to your younger self a would you want to and be what would you say I mean I think I definitely would want to you ah you know
00:30:20
Speaker
you divulged your age, so
Advice to your younger self about being different
00:30:22
Speaker
I will divulge mine. My next birthday will start with a five. I'm not too sure how i how much I appreciate that. um But, you know, when i think about when I think about, you know, me, my 12-year-old self, like that was the late 80s. You know, and that was, you know, when you think about, you know, mental health and you think about autism, like those were still things that were super taboo subjects where the you references, you know, the references were and were movies like Rain Man.
00:30:50
Speaker
um You know, and that's that's what people associate things with. And um I think i would go back ah to I would go back to that, you know, to 12-year-old me and say, you know, if you just because you are different doesn't mean that you're that.
00:31:06
Speaker
Like, it like didn you have to understand that, like, your differences are your difference is it what make you you. And they're what make you special. And that, you know, yes, maybe, maybe there are going to be some times that you need some help and it's okay to ask for help because I think that's another part of it is that, you know, there is such a thing where like, you don't ask for help.
00:31:28
Speaker
The things that are going on in your brain, it's not because you're weird. It's not because you're different. It's because so your chemistry is different. Like the way that you were put together is just different. And, and, and it's not bad. It's not good. It's just difference.
00:31:42
Speaker
And there are ways to make there are ways to help you normalize it. There are ways to help you understand it. There are ways to help you work through it. And I think those are all of the things that were lacking in that period where we just thought, the victim was like oh, you're weird.
00:31:59
Speaker
Like that was what it was. You're weird. you know And so people, you were a cast out you People didn't want to be your friend because you were weird. And and i and i think that what I would say is like, you're not weird.
00:32:11
Speaker
you're just put together a little bit differently. And this is how, and this is how you can work through it. Yeah. And being unique is, is, is a good thing.
00:32:22
Speaker
And, you know, that was something that I'm 39 and I think I just learned like this year where it was like, you know, talking to the psychologist during my autism assessment and then now talking to a therapist where it's like,
00:32:40
Speaker
Being unique is a really good thing or can be really good thing. It's a powerful thing. a powerful thing. It's intimidating. That's why I, you know, it's a great thing. It's a powerful thing. It's a powerful thing that is made to feel very intimidating in a society that wants us all to assimilate.
00:32:56
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. And I was like, finally this year, I'm like, I told my therapist first session, I said, I want to turn it into my superpower. How can you help me turn this into my superpower?
00:33:10
Speaker
um And I don't have a cape or anything. think you're on the right road. I'm trying. I'm trying.
00:33:20
Speaker
That's all I can say. But it's it's a journey that takes... it takes time. Um, it's not always an an enjoyable journey, but, oh yeah um, it's a, uh, necessary journey.
Is discomfort in therapy necessary for growth?
00:33:36
Speaker
I think that's part of it also is that, you know, there's the mentality of like, at the way that we're wired and the way that we're raised is that, you know, if things don't feel good, don't do them, you know, and, and so much therapy doesn't feel good.
00:33:52
Speaker
You know, it's like, like you're, you're, you know, you're you're having to deal with some really hard shit, part of my language, you know, yeah and and and it doesn't feel good. And and it like, there were times I would leave therapy, and I would just be like, I know that this is helping me. But right now, all they want to do is like crawl into a hole and, and, you know, and just not talk, not see anybody, I just, you know, want to be in my feelings. And so it's, I think it's just this inherent, this inherent discomfort with discomfort.
00:34:24
Speaker
And, you know, and and I think that if we can get more comfortable being in those really icky places, then it'll help a lot of people be able to understand that, like, it's okay to feel that way.
00:34:35
Speaker
If you're doing if you're if it's putting you on a path, it's going to make you, you know, deal with some of your things or or put you in a spot that's going to be better. yeah That is so you put this beautiful mental image. I'm sorry I keep talking about butterflies, but as you were speaking and talking about being uncomfortable, I just thought about think about that caterpillar who's wrapped himself in that like awful, disgusting. It's probably like musty and just like moist in there and just really gross. Right.
00:35:09
Speaker
And then just think about what emerges. I mean, oh oh ah ah ah something that you know mesmerizes you know people. every you know It's such a beautiful thing.
00:35:22
Speaker
it It really is. it's also, but it's also like like, if you think about, let's let's let's take this analogy further, like this visual further. like You think about like a caterpillar, which is such like a cute little you know a cute little little thing.
00:35:33
Speaker
Then it wraps itself up in this thing, and it basically just liquefies itself. you know And it's just like, into this, like, just bleh. And then it reemerges into this butterfly. And so sometimes you have to, sometimes you have to put yourself into a to be able to come out on the other side in in ah in a beautiful place.
00:35:52
Speaker
Yes. The way describe therapy, like how uncomfortable, because I've heard people say that to a lot of my friends who like, therapy doesn't work for me. It makes me feel worse than i did before I walked in.
00:36:02
Speaker
And in my mind, you know um I'm trying to be supportive, but in i mine of my mind, well, isn't that the point? Like, that's like, get it out, get it out. That's that toxicity that's living inside of you.
00:36:14
Speaker
Because all we've done, all we've done, oh, ah sorry. and You're good. Here we go, I told you tangents, here we go. um but like But I also, but i but I feel like, and especially, like I look at the generation people ah fine people in my generation who are now parents and how many of them just say, always say yes to their kids or always, you know, tell them exactly what they want to hear all that stuff. And it's like, they have to understand that, that feeling icky is okay.
00:36:49
Speaker
Or like not getting what you want is okay. Not everything is meant to, you're not supposed to always feel good. You know, and so it was like, I don't like the way I feel after therapy. Well, yeah, exactly. big It's helping you work through your stuff.
00:37:02
Speaker
Like you have to, you have to feel that way before you can, you know, so I think, I think that's part partially, that you know, this is this generation of kids that are, you know, kids growing up being told that everything is, everything they do is wonderful and, you know, they're great and which is good. Yes. We want to, we want to positively reinforce people, but we have to do it in a realistic way where, you know, anyway,
00:37:24
Speaker
like her and I'm not a parent, so it's easy for but me to say probably, but you know, that's what's how I feel. I am ah ah a parent um of, well, a human now of three years, a dog parent long before that. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, i mean but the dogs the dogs are great. But it's easier it's it's easier for the parent to say yes. You know, it's out of a convenience thing is how I feel about it. But ah no one, the time,
00:37:52
Speaker
I was gonna say it was such a disservice when I was younger, the there I think of a lot of times I should have been told no, but I don't I don't think it did me any favors as an adult looking back on it. I do. i had a thought as you were talking, Alex about like, you know, me going through therapy right now, I'm going through that therapy there that part of therapy where like, it sucks.
00:38:14
Speaker
And i I I tell my therapist, I love my therapist, ah Hannah, she's amazing. But I have, you know last week I met with her and I i said, this sucks.
00:38:27
Speaker
Like, I don't have any better way to say this. Like, I felt like I was doing better for a while because we were working on a you know specific set of things. I was getting better. And then we started working on some other things. And she was making me think about things and talk about things that just are not the most enjoyable part of what I want to talk about. And, you know, I get to the end of it and i'm like,
00:38:52
Speaker
That was horrible. I hated that. I'm looking forward to the next appointment. and i I, after it kind of settles in and I can think about it and work through it a little bit more, I'm like, okay, okay.
00:39:07
Speaker
um' I'm seeing the progress here slowly, but it, it like, To your point, I think we need to be put in these like uncomfortable situations. and Absolutely. It's going to be uncomfortable. It's not going to be enjoyable at all times.
00:39:23
Speaker
um But hopefully in time, um it will and will help and allow us to kind of feel better and in more of those yeah situations.
00:39:35
Speaker
Do either of you guys listen to Hidden Brain, the podcast, Hidden Brain? No. Um, uh, Sean Kerr is like a, is a psychologist. I think he works for NPR and every week he brings in a different specialist and they, they talk about different areas of mental health in this past.
00:39:50
Speaker
ah This last episode, it was about just how in our society and as human beings, we're on this pursuit of happiness and especially Americans because it's and and embedded and written into our constitution.
Societal views on happiness and passion
00:40:01
Speaker
Right.
00:40:02
Speaker
And they talk about that actually that people who are on this pursuit of happiness and, you know, right now we're really into live your passion, find your passion, which I'm a passion i'm i'm I'm very much that I, you know, I live for that as well. But, you know, you also need to do those things that make you uncomfortable and that you don't necessarily bring you happiness. But just it's a really good episode. I felt like it kind of ties into what all of us were talking about. I'll check it out.
00:40:26
Speaker
I think that we should, so we kind of did talk about, you were talking about, you know, how we were talking about how important community is, but how as a community, just, you know, even us as ah a group of people who want to talk about our mental health, our our own experiences, learn from the experiences of others, how do you think that we can all better support each other?
00:40:54
Speaker
I mean, i think it's a lot, you know, I think we just need to, we just need to communicate. Like we need to, we need to, we need to be comfortable. We need to find those people that we're comfortable with and that if we're not doing well, we need be able to say that.
00:41:07
Speaker
Or, you know, if something is bothering us, we need to be able to say that. Um, I think as, you know, if I take this back again to like the beginning of my journey, i was noticing that, you know, in my relationship, if something was bothering me, i would,
00:41:23
Speaker
either push the rug, or I wouldn't say it because I would know i would be like, Okay, if I bring this up, it's gonna open up all of these other cans of worms that I don't that I don't want to deal with.
00:41:34
Speaker
So I'm just going to keep it inside. And so I think I think that if we can find those people around us that, you know, i can go to you and say, Hey, I'm having a really terrible day. Or when you did this, when when you said this to me, it made me feel like shit.
00:41:49
Speaker
And this is why, like I think that those are the kinds of, those are the kinds of conversations that we need to be able to have, whether they be with our friends, with our partners, you know, with our children, mean maybe don't say something like that that mean to your children, but, um you know, but um I just think that those are the, those are the things that are really important. I'm very lucky personally.
00:42:11
Speaker
that I have a lot of my very close personal friends that I grew up with, um that I'm still in contact with. And we all grew up, you know, we all went to, you know, from elementary school through high school in Southeast of Virginia, you know, in the eighties and nineties, when, you know, people didn't talk about this.
00:42:26
Speaker
We are still very close with each other and have all gone on our own kind of parts, different parts of mental health journeys and to different extents. um One of my friends has actually just decided to go back to school She just completed her master's degree in clinical psychology. And she's decided she, her, in her previous life, she was a pastor.
00:42:47
Speaker
um And now she has decided to take that and to be a therapist that is um helping people work through their religious trauma. know And so beautiful
What are generational perspectives on mental health?
00:42:57
Speaker
and much needed. Wow. Right. amazing Yeah.
00:42:59
Speaker
And so, and to be, I think it's like, I think, you know, we're, we're in a generation of people that are realizing that we, we act in one certain way. but we're still young enough to understand like, Hey, maybe that wasn't right or that wasn't the best. And how can I take those experiences and turn them into something good? And so I'm finding a lot of people like that in my life that, you know, that are able to kind of look back and say and reflect and say, Hey, you know, this is how I was. This is what I thought.
00:43:33
Speaker
This is how I've taken that to re re-evaluate where I am. Um, and, you know, to help, help bring that good to other people. Yes. so and We still have some of that neuroplasticity left. Like I, I, I know that, I know that we do.
00:43:48
Speaker
And i love, I want to add to what you said too, like consider it ah like ah a lifelong journey, make maintenance
Why is brain health crucial for well-being?
00:43:57
Speaker
work, right? Like we don't, we don't just like work out a couple of times and then five years later think that we're fit from those few classes that we went to. And then we just like automatically go and do a 5k, you know? So I think to me, and maybe this comes a little bit from my background and and love and passion for yoga and meditation, but I really try to put the mental and the physical health it in the the same the same level um and
00:44:29
Speaker
treat them treat them as one and yeah I think, well and and and I think you said, read it like that. Right. Exactly. But I think there's, you know, and there have been so many, I've seen so many memes and like, I've seen this said so many times, but I don't, I don't think you can ever say to this enough. It's like, you know, I eat a healthy diet or I try to eat a healthy diet.
00:44:48
Speaker
So I'm taking care of like my, you know, I'm taking care of my body that way. I do. I exercise, I lift weights. so I have a Peloton. I like to go running. I'm taking care of my body in that way. Why are we not taking care of our brains?
00:44:59
Speaker
You know, we we're worried. We're worried about every single worry about our heart, and worried about our livers, we're worried about our bones and our and our muscles. Why are we not worried about our brains? You know, and that's and because it literally is what is helping the everything else function.
00:45:14
Speaker
um And so I just think I think that just needs to be said over and over and over and over again for people to understand that, like, you've got to take the time out to to think about that. and i i love how you put it. Why are we not helping our brains? I think if you put it that way to someone who's just not quite getting it through their brain, maybe that could click.
00:45:34
Speaker
It had me thinking about like, we talk about these invisible diseases, um like depression, anxiety. And when we talk about the...
00:45:47
Speaker
physical items that people can see if someone breaks their leg, someone will, is is more receptive to ask, Oh, how are you doing? How are, you know, are you, uh, you know, feeling better? Are you getting more strength in your leg? But then when it comes to these invisible diseases, ah or disease sounds so dirty, but like people don't,
00:46:14
Speaker
think to ask about it. People don't want to talk about it quite as much. And i think that's a ah thing, not just within ourselves, that we need to get better at being able to ask for help, to your point, and be able to talk about it. but like Other folks need to be.
00:46:34
Speaker
I think we all have some room for improvement to ask others. And when things seem off, it's not just, oh, I see your broken leg. It's, oh, something seems different today or this week versus last week.
00:46:49
Speaker
um Let's ask about it. And, you know, depending on the day, we may not want to talk about it. We may not trust that person ah enough to, you know, want to share everything. But, know,
00:47:01
Speaker
I think those baby steps, if if a person... I have a very good friend of mine who I won't share their name um because I know they won't want it shared. But like she's very she has a lot going on and keeps it close to her chest and doesn't like to talk about it.
00:47:17
Speaker
um And then you know I asked about it plenty of times and didn't want to talk about it. And then finally, think i think she gained enough trust in me to where she could talk about it And I'm one of those resources for her now. So um it's, it's not easy, but it's just all the talk about kind of physical got me also thinking about a lot of the work that I think us as people can do with mental support as well.
00:47:50
Speaker
Sean, I think a takeaway ah from what you just said ah to consider would be just because you ask once, And you can tell your spidey senses say something, something's off and they say, no, it's okay.
00:48:04
Speaker
ah will ask, ask again. You know, you don't, you don't have to ask just once, like, you know, if you feel something's off, give it some time, put a pin in it, come back to it. You know, just don't, don't, don't give up on the conversation.
00:48:19
Speaker
I think there are also people that are afraid to ask about it because they're afraid of what the answer might be. And then they're actually be like, okay, what do I do? What do I do with this? You know, like, like, if it's like, Hey, how, Hey, how are you just want to check in? How are you doing today? It's like, well, uh, you know, this sucks. My job sucks. Life sucks. Life is horrible. You know, i mean, that's probably a little dramatic, but you know, it's like, and then that person maybe might be like, uh, sorry.
00:48:45
Speaker
You know, it's like, i think, I just think there are a lot of people that don't ask about it because they don't want to hear, and they don't want to hear the truth. They don't want, they won't know what to do with it. Well, and to that point, like yeah one of my closest friends, ah this was probably just a week or two ago, that exact situation happened. I asked them, you know, something felt off. So I asked and they,
00:49:10
Speaker
they dumped all of the information out and i and this was just over like messaging. I didn't know how to respond. I typed maybe five different responses and I was like, none of this is genuine. Like, I don't, I don't know what to do with this. And I, I just, I wrote,
00:49:30
Speaker
I'm really sorry to hear that. And like a lot of times, like it doesn't need to be this big kind of solution session or ranting session or whatever. Like a lot of times just somebody asking and then saying like, I'm really sorry is, is actually more helpful than I think some people.
00:49:52
Speaker
recognize Maybe not always, but not even saying you're sorry, just being like, yeah, that actually really sucks. and and And don't have and don't compare it to anything or just just be there. You know what mean? Just take up space with that person and be like, you know what? Yeah, that's that's really terrible.
00:50:08
Speaker
I think there are a lot of us out there, especially around our ages that are in the same position in the in the 80s and in the 90s when I grew up.
00:50:22
Speaker
the the The spectrum was there, but it is not the spectrum that it is today. So I think a lot of us who are neurodivergent or have neurodivergent tendencies, people out there are really looking right now to to think am, am I, um, is this something that I could look into as an adult? So if there's someone out there right now, who's like, how do I even start this process? Like what would be your advice to them? If it's something that they're thinking about?
00:50:57
Speaker
Um, fine, Sean, uh, honestly, because so no, it's, I mean, I'll, I mean, I can just kind of walk you through it my journey has been.
Exploring the autism spectrum
00:51:06
Speaker
So yeah like, as i was, as i was going through my mental health journey, um,
00:51:10
Speaker
I started wondering, i would, I would say like it was fairly soon after that. So like, probably have been ben questioning the whole ah spectrum topic for about four or five years. um And when I was going through this, I was also, I had another friend of mine who was kind of also talking about this with me, a little bit older than I am. So again, we we both grew up in a time where that wasn't really discussed or the, the, the man autism and something but much more extreme. um And we also started talking about she started talking about how she's very much an empath when when you know and when she's around people she absorbs her energy and so I started I also started researching more about being in what that meant.
00:51:57
Speaker
um One of the best books I've ever in my life was is the empath survival guide. If you haven't read it, I highly suggest it. It like to the point where where I read the I was like three paragraphs in on the first page, and I literally dropped the book and kind of like scream because I was like, Oh my god, I make sense.
00:52:15
Speaker
Like it was like the first time I actually made sense. And when I was reading the book, one of the one of the chapters in there talks about how people who are very empathic, often think that they may be on the autism because of the way that because of how they feel because of sensory overload, um you know, things like that. um You know, when I was starting to learn more about this, I've always been one where yes, I, can be the life of the party.
00:52:42
Speaker
If it's around people that I'm comfortable with. um If it's people that I don't necessarily know, i will stand in the corner and I will either listen or I will just go off on my own.
00:52:53
Speaker
um there have been you know there was even a ah christmas with my family where i had to remove myself from from the room because there was so much like my stepmother is high energy all the time and it is always a life of the party and that doesn't ever you know it just amplifies the more people that are around and so like i had to like remove myself and so it turned into like are you upset are you mad like what's going on you know And I was like, no, I just, i just i I need to recharge. I just, I need to recharge. Like my my social battery is is depleted and I need to recharge it before I can come back you know into the situation.
00:53:30
Speaker
And that, when like when I started realizing that about myself, that I know went back to infancy because my parents would always talk about how, you know, if I was you know playing by myself on the floor and I got picked up, I would squirm, i would like wine, would like kick and like not want to be held.
00:53:49
Speaker
But once they put me back on my playpen or something, I was fine. And you know, which is not necessarily, don't want to say normal, but it's, it's different. And, you know, and so when I was doing all of this, you know, it's, it's really got me thinking a lot more. And when I was talking to my partner about it, like, and other people that are my age that are kind of talking about this now and realizing that, Hey, perhaps I am on the spectrum or perhaps there, this is part of me.
00:54:16
Speaker
It was actually Sean's LinkedIn message that really got me thinking about it. And he was talking about it so openly and that how he had just been recently diagnosed as an adult. And I was like, but this is exactly where I am.
00:54:29
Speaker
And he actually gave me some resources to look at. while, because I'm in California, those specific resources didn't necessarily work for me because and California is weird. um It allowed me to see, oh, there are resources out there.
00:54:43
Speaker
online resources, you know, virtual, you know, things like this that I can do. and that's how I ended up finding a company that I'm going to be talking with in a couple of weeks to go through the assessment.
00:54:54
Speaker
Um, so I just think, you know, there are so many people out there that are going through the same thing. And i think that taking this back to being growing up in the eighties and nineties, where people did think of autism as being such an extreme thing that, you know, it is a spectrum and there are people who, who are,
00:55:12
Speaker
that do have these exact same type of characteristics, you know, that on the outside, you wouldn't think there's anything, you know, you wouldn't think there's anything different, you wouldn't think there's anything off, if you will. I hate saying it that way. But, um but then my friend that I was talking about before, they just got her master's and is now going for for therapy, her eldest daughter ah is on the spectrum, and is autistic and is in is is able, you know, she's able to work, she's she's been going she's been going to school, she does require a bit more care, um you know, but but she is still able to to operate on her own. And so even with talking with her, and about how I'm exploring this myself, and I'm going on this journey, she was able to say, this makes so much sense, because I'm remembering you as a kid, I'm remembering growing up with you. And there now that I have an autistic child, and I'm learning more about it,
00:56:05
Speaker
I'm remembering things about you from childhood. I'm getting goosebumps. Uh, I remember things as well. Yeah. But, but she would be like, I remember things about you from childhood that definitely mean or definitely indicate that you could be on the spectrum.
00:56:24
Speaker
And, and I think that, you know, think I just think about like how many, like what, how, how many, um how much more we know about it. Like, I think that that's also part of it is like, people didn't really know a lot about it in the eighties and nineties.
00:56:38
Speaker
And so if you, if you weren't, you know, severely on the spectrum, people didn't, you know, they just thought, again, they thought you were weird. You were different. You were weird. And, and now it's, it's being able to kind of to what Sean said earlier, it's like, I'm learning all of these things about myself now. And I, you know, on this journey for these last five years, how do I make these messy?
00:57:00
Speaker
And like, and that's what I'm really trying to do. And I think that, you know, the way that I can make it a superpower for me is to just talk about it more, you know, be, you know, and the thing is like, I may go through this evaluation in two weeks and be told that I'm not on the spectrum, you know, and that's, and that's, and that would be fine too, but at least I won't,
00:57:20
Speaker
I will probably learn more about myself even through that, through that, you know, through that situation. you Right. but Yeah. And even if you necessarily aren't diagnosed on the spectrum, those those traits that you've had since childhood, those neurodivergent traits, like that, that's all still real. That's all still there. So maybe, you know, there's, there could be just like a few little hairs off, you know, from that. Right. And so I wouldn't discredit this journey. Oh, no, absolutely not. No, I think it's,
00:57:47
Speaker
It's been it's just been it's been a very eye-opening. And while i while i and and will freely discuss it, it's not something that I freely discuss with everyone. It's people that I feel comfortable with. It's people that, again, like kind of take it back to like my chosen family or people that you know I know will understand. to and to be honest with you, this is not something that I've talked about much with my with my father and my stepmother because I just don't think that they understand it.
00:58:16
Speaker
you know, having come from, you know, come from that generation where, you know, you ah you know, my, my father was, was born the late forties. And so, you know, when he was going through these things, you know, it was in the sixties and, you know, Oh, you know, people, you know, if you, if you were, if you had autism, you were likely put some kind of a special home or something like that, you know? And it's like, it's like, there's just so much that I feel like people don't understand that it's like going to be part of my journey to,
00:58:44
Speaker
to be that person who can educate and say, like, you know, it doesn't have to be it's an autism is not a black and white thing. You know, much of life is not a black and white thing.
00:58:55
Speaker
You know, there's there's there's all these shades of gray in here. And while you know, and and Sean, like, you know, his, his diagnosis of autism may manifest in a vastly different way than if I am diagnosed with what would manifest with mine.
00:59:12
Speaker
you know, and so, and I think that that's something that's really important to to think about as well, is that just because, you know, you are, if I'm diagnosed as autistic, you know, just because I will be diagnosed that way doesn't mean I'm going to know everything about it, or doesn't mean like, oh, well, I'm, you know, I'm autistic and so are you, so you we must be the same.
00:59:31
Speaker
You know, there's so many different colors and so many different shades of it that, you know, that we're still learning about every day. I think it's important to tap back and to mention what you just said about how you're your yourre dad and your stepmom, you know, just because of the generational difference and your dad being born in the 40s, like they might not understand it. And I think that a lot of people out there in ah in different capacities um and will, you know, specifically to mental health right now,
00:59:58
Speaker
They are are needing to, you know, they don't they don't know how to address this with their families, right? Like, how do you bring this up? Because they're feeling the same way. They don't understand it. And I think from a place of if you're learning boundaries, I think healthy boundaries are important. And If they can't understand it, that's okay. If you want these people in your life, great, but they need to respect it.
01:00:19
Speaker
yeah I don't think that you have to fully understand something to respect it. And I think that if somehow we, you know, we as people can communicate that with people in our life, you know, don't.
01:00:30
Speaker
i don't I don't need you to understand what I'm doing. you know just Just respect me. I think that that could be big in conversations moving forward with people yeah in our lives. Yeah, for sure. and And respecting those boundaries, like if if I am neurodivergent,
01:00:47
Speaker
and I'm talking about it and you know, with my peers or friends or family and I'm explaining kind of what's necessary for me to be in a better headspace to kind of cope with the realities of life a little bit better than like,
01:01:04
Speaker
Let's use work, for example, if I have those conversations with work, if if I need additional time, if I need more prep upfront to be prepared for a big client presentation, like, yes, that's what's necessary for neurodivergent me.
01:01:20
Speaker
But there might be someone, let's say, newer in their career who need some of those similar items. So it's it's not just, hey, listen, listen to neurodivergent Sean and do it for neurodivergent Sean. Like by listening and taking these things into consideration, you are better. You are being a better peer. You are but being a better colleague. Like you're being a better person at the end of the day. so um and I think that's yeah so what you just brought up.
01:01:52
Speaker
I think if I want to connect this also to the work that I do, so in being a recruiter, you know i think that as I'm going through my own journey, I'm starting to understand parts of ah a recruiting process or like if somebody's applying for a job or going through an interview process, how biased these processes are towards neurotypical individuals.
01:02:15
Speaker
um Where so many, the the way the way the interview questions are set up or the way the interview panels are done, they are they are done in a way where they they bias they positively bias people who can think quickly on their feet, who just, you know, you ask them a question, it's like blah, blah.
01:02:35
Speaker
Whereas, you know, somebody who is neurodivergent needs to take a step back, needs to think about it, needs to formulate their answer, put something together and then share it. which is oftentimes seen as like they don't know what they're talking about or they don't experience and and i think that you know again if i want to take using this as my superpower i think that this is some way that in my career i can help to potentially change the perception in that we need to really look at how we're interviewing people how we
01:03:06
Speaker
but like you know I've applied for 117 jobs since ah March. And I've spoken to many recruiters, had lots of interviews and interviewing is such a struggle for me. Like i I want to start crying right now, listening to what you're saying. I'm like, yes, like, please get on right now.
01:03:22
Speaker
Become a top voice on LinkedIn. Talk to the recruiters. Let them know what's going on. Talk to the hiring managers. They need to hear your voice.
Future plans and advocacy for neurodiversity
01:03:31
Speaker
They need to hear your experience. Yeah.
01:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I shouted as much as I possibly can. um But I just think that, you know, the more I um so I guess to toot my own horn a little bit here, um part of my the next part of my journey, I just found out that um I was accepted to Vanderbilt University to get my doctorate in organizational um leadership and learning.
01:03:52
Speaker
um So, you know, nothing like going back to get your doctorate at 50. Um, but you know, I'm, I'm hoping that this will also help launch, continue to launch this platform that I have, um, or I can, you know, i want part of my research that I do with my doctorate to really focus in on this, on, you know, what does it mean to be, you know, neurodiverse in the workplace? What does it mean to be othered, if you will, in the workplace? Like how can we, how can we create a workplace? How can we create organizations where, where people like us feel
01:04:26
Speaker
truly like we belong. You know, that's, I think that is so much of it as well. Like if if if you think about, you know, even these 117 jobs you've applied for, these interviews you've had, like in those a interview processes, you know, have you felt a sense of belonging like towards people that might be new or diverse within the company?
01:04:44
Speaker
you know, that's so important to think about, you know, as people are are are learning about your organization. And so I'm hoping that I can take this next part of my journey, just mash it all together and, you know,
01:04:54
Speaker
Then I'll put my cape on and you know I'll go save the world. I feel so very confident. I don't know you, Alex, beyond you know some of the messages we've shared back and forth and what you've shared on LinkedIn. But like based on this discussion, based on what you've shared on on online, like you are such an advocate for, i feel like for everybody.
01:05:17
Speaker
like you are like I see your comments on posts. I see your posts yourself. like I think you you are such a big advocate for like the betterment of everybody.
01:05:28
Speaker
um So no pressure, but go get your doctorate, put on your cape, save the world. um Because i think we need you. Like, i I think we, no pressure again, but I mean i think we kind of need you.
01:05:46
Speaker
i think i think the I think the world needs me too. but so But yeah, so it's just gonna, I just gotta convince everybody else. That's, that's, that's a beautiful way to wrap up the conversation, I believe where it where it came from.
01:06:02
Speaker
We started where you were sharing with us, you know, that this, you went from thinking this is a world that I might not want to be in to this is a world that needs me.
01:06:12
Speaker
I mean, oh that's that is so beautiful. i think do we We need like a mic drop sound in here so we can just be like, I feel like, no, don't. You dropped your microphone last time, Victoria, and I think that's why you were having issues with it ah the beginning here. um Alex, I think, ah again, to tap back to ah what you've said, um we can go from being in a world to where we feel like
01:06:46
Speaker
we don't belong to flipping that perspective to being like, wow, the world actually needs more of me. um And with that being said, i would like to know how can our listeners connect with you? um If anyone is looking to reach out, because i know from the conversation that we've had today, I'm i'm dying to stay connected with you, see where your journey goes.
01:07:11
Speaker
um And I know I'm not the only one.
How to connect with Alex Cheney
01:07:14
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Alex Cheney, C-H-E-N-E-Y. You can find me, you'll know it's me when you see and next to my name, you'll see a rainbow flag and a unicorn.
01:07:26
Speaker
um So if you don't see a rainbow flag and unicorn, it's not me. But you can also find me through my my business, my consulting business called A Little Bit Alex. So that's a littlebitalex.com.
01:07:39
Speaker
um You can email me at alexatlittlebitealex.com. Lots of Alex's in there. um but yeah but i mean i'm happy to stay connected i'd love absolutely love to stay connected with the two of you but i'm also always happy to you know chat with people that you know might be feeling in the same situation or or you know feeling some of the same things and you know i think there's there's so much opportunity to not only share my experience but to to also learn from others and and and i would love to have that opportunity Truly, and i I don't want to speak for Sean when I say this, but we are really so thankful to have had this conversation with you. um
01:08:18
Speaker
It has been learning experience for us all. This is a lot harder than it looks, anyone's wondering. Yeah.
01:08:27
Speaker
It is. I still have the microphone that my cat has chewed. We talked about that last time. It's still there, but this is much harder to do than.
01:08:44
Speaker
So with that being said, guys, we are going to head out for the day ah and remember to subscribe, visit nurturing tomorrow.org and let's keep the conversations going.