Transcript
Speaker: You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Modern Myth with me, Tristan, the anarchologist. I have a very special guest today. Thank you very much for calling from across like land masters and water. Could you give us a little introduction of who you are and what you do?
Speaker: Okay, thank you very much, Tristan. My name is Ajay Bulu, Ajay David. I'm currently a graduate student at the University of Nevada, Nigeria at the Department of Archaeology and Anthropology. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker: I'm an archaeologist and I've been on this for quite a number of years and it is going to be six, seven years in counting now. I will be glad to share some of my experience. Excellent. And so, day to day, where does your work take you? Is it the local area or do you cover like a region?
Speaker: Yeah, when you say local area, you're talking about just my immediate environment. Is that right? Yes, yes. Actually, in the last couple of years, I've been working regionally in Nigeria. I've been looking at the archeological past of the Yoruba people of Southwestern Nigeria. And so far, it has been interesting. I've aspired to work in other parts of the country.
Speaker: And interestingly, I've been privileged to contribute to some of the research going on in other parts of West Africa. And primarily, my area of focus has been in southwestern part of Nigeria. And what kind of what kind of finds are you finding? Is it stuff that you're having to do a lot of digging for? Or are there a lot of surface level things?
Speaker: Actually, primarily, since I'm interested in reconstructing the cultural past of the people in the last few years, I've been looking at technology in the past. Our technology at the ship development and establishment of states in
Speaker: in the past. So primarily I've been looking at iron technology in particular, how the procurement of iron had heated in the development of ancient states.
Speaker: in the past as early as maybe 500 years ago, even earlier in some cases. So I've been looking at how it has shaped it, how trade had come in, and the social cultural impact. And interestingly, in recent times, I've been looking at how the impact of urbanization had affected many of our cultural heritage which we have in this part of the world.
Speaker: What is heritage looked at by the general public? What do people think of history and archaeology? That's an interesting question. Here in this part of the world,
Speaker: uh archaeology itself it's more of a colonial baggage it's a it's a strange thing to so many people and therefore it's what it entails is a little bit strange it is until recently we've been trying to work so hard on how we can make the people understand it so in essence in this part of the world heritage and archaeology is um
Speaker: something the people really, really do not connect with, especially based on the reasons that it is not usually economically rewarding, like other areas of specialization like science and technology. So when you talk about archaeology, history with the people, they are more or less like, I'm not really interested. I've heard quite a number of folktays and folklaws from my grandfather.
Speaker: for my dad and I don't think I want to continue that I want to talk about it and unfortunately the educational system has not been really helping because
Speaker: Not until recently, we had history reinstated back into the curriculum, because about a couple of years ago, the Ministry of Education scrapped history from the curriculum, and that is one of the problems which we had in the past. But thankfully, thanks to the kind of climate which we had, we've been able to restore it. So in essence, history, archaeology is not so much something
Speaker: people really relate to it here in this part of the world in Nigeria. I think there's actually quite similar problems here, especially when the history that's
Speaker: that's interesting gets to go on TV and everything else gets put at the wayside so like local histories are not really looked at and there's not an interest but these grand big histories are they get the money you know
Speaker: And I'd be interested to know about, obviously there are, their monumental kind of remains in Nigeria, are there like tombs and like stone structures? Does that kind of stuff get attention? Yeah, yeah, we have quite a number of monumental elements in Nigeria, quite a number actually.
Speaker: Interestingly, we have two world heritage sites in Nigeria. We have Sukkot in the north, and then we have the Oshoshubu group here in southwestern Nigeria, in Oshoshite to be precise. We have quite a number of heritage items which people could look at, which could fascinate them and make them understand the ingenuity of their
Speaker: of their past ancestors. We have quite a number of archaeological sites, ranging from the not -culture area that produced one of the earliest dates in iron metallurgy. I'm talking about Taruga, as early as 500 BC.
Speaker: And then we have, interestingly, one, I don't want to say novel, but it's one of the interesting sites in Austin State that produced evidence of glass making and glass speed walking. Recently it was investigated by
Speaker: who is currently a research fellow at Cambridge. And we have sites like Sugmoyredo, which is also one of the monuments which we have, which is believed to have been over 500 years old, which talks about urbanization in the forest zone of West Africa prior to the arrival of the
Speaker: Europeans. We have quite a number of movements around the community dotting the landscape. But the thing is that because of the everyday engagement of the people, you know, going out to make money and snits and the poor holiday culture which we have in this part of the world, many of our people don't really, really, you know, visit some of the sites and then
Speaker: It is one of the things that we are trying to look at how we can encourage more people to visit one of these beautiful sites. But I can tell you Nigeria has quite a number of a large number of interesting archaeological and heritage sites all around its landscape.
Speaker: definitely as everywhere in the world and I actually have some questions from some listeners who I told about I was going to listen I was going to speak to you so one of them says are there many sites along the coast of Nigeria and is it different in the south to the north what you kind of find?
Speaker: Actually, we have quite a number. Interestingly, a friend of mine is currently working on an island in the Badagri region called Topo Island, where he's trying to look at the migratory history of the Topo people.
Speaker: as early as the 18th century. And we have some other sites known as Belefu and Ovaron, I think, around the Lagos coastal area. And one thing is because of the disparity difference in the geography of the coastal area and the northern part of Nigeria,
Speaker: the type of archaeological materials which we have there varies. Unlike the southern part of Nigeria, the coastal area I mean, the preservation of archaeological heritage in the north is better done because of the type of climate which they have there.
Speaker: So, when we're talking about the type of aerogets, there's quite a number of differences between them. Our visible and available data, like in the southern and the southern coastal area whereby we have issues of quick deterioration and so on.
Speaker: That's good to know, and that's the same with other coastal areas as well. It is one of those things where you have to try and save archaeology that is disintegrating into the sea, unfortunately. So I've got a question that says,
Speaker: Is archaeology a part of Nigerian national identity? I think we've kind of touched on that already. How do you think a Nigerian national identity kind of takes from history?
Speaker: Actually, like I said earlier, archaeology in Nigeria is one of the colonial elements. It came with the colonial baggage. And until recently, it is still seen as an elitist element. So it's very few people really interested in both in the formation of the Nigerian identity.
Speaker: Archaeology played a very important role, especially in the area of discussion of technological and social ingenuity. In the past, we've always believed that there's this prior notion that the forest zone of South Africa, I'm talking about the Sub -Saharan Africa,
Speaker: was not occupied. But with the help of archaeology, as early as the fifties, went to Austin Shaw, who was the meeting head of the Department of Archaeology and Anthropology, University of Ibadan here. When he carried out his research with S .H. Daniels, they were able to carry out some investigation that's
Speaker: elucidates the fact that this area of Nigeria is known as Uwiluru in Ondo State. It has been occupied as early as 11 ,000 years ago and it has in a way shipped the way Nigerians are at large.
Speaker: you know, see the community. It is not like we just arrived here recently or after the Europeans, but rather we've been here for a very long time. And this is what we've been doing. Our forefathers were not just recipients of good things. They themselves, they were engineers. They are able to do things. They can develop ideas on their own and execute it. So, ecology in a way is one of the tools
Speaker: which we've used to ship the Nigerian identity and build some more self -consciousness in our heritage and cultural past. So, I would say, though archaeology is an elitist and a culture, an element built from colonial hegemony, but over the years it has built, it has grown to enlighten the Nigerian.
Speaker: Yes, because in most of our history in Nigeria, it does not go beyond the amalgamation period and when the aftermath was, I know. But because of archaeology and the material evidence which we have, we've been able to shed more light on the history of just people putting on leaves around their leaves and around their waste and leaving them caves. But archaeology has shown beautiful things about Africa.
Speaker: about Nigeria in particular in terms of trade networks, in terms of science and technology, et cetera.
Speaker: this is a very difficult thing to kind of work with because as you said, you know, archaeology has that colonial baggage. What ways do you think as a practitioner of archaeology are you trying to undo that? Like, how do you begin to kind of take the colonialism out of archaeology? Like, what are you doing there to
Speaker: unpack it. Thank you very much on that question. One of the things we've been trying to do to decolonize archaeology is to make its own grown, is to develop, you know, theories and concepts within the concept of the principle of amineutics. Prior to, let's say, one or two decades ago,
Speaker: The whole thing that the discourse in Nigeria is all about is things that were taught by our European lecturers, teachers and all. But in recent time with the type of effect that we noticed this colonial thought has on our discussion, one of the things we've
Speaker: try to do so far is to look at archaeological past within the context of the local people, which is where the public archaeology comes in. Before now, most of the time what we do is to, well, what the pioneer of archaeology in Nigeria do is to probably use their own perceptive about what the culture is
Speaker: And usually the local people are kept out of the interpretation. But in this age, what we've been trying to do is to bring in the local people from the beginning, the design of the project itself, archaeological project itself. During the course of the project, the field exercise, we make sure the local people are involved in it. We have conversations with them. And we let them participate.
Speaker: at least 70 % into the research. And then by the time we're done and we want to do our interpretations, we don't do the interpretation void of them. We try as much as possible to bring one or two people who had shown interest from the community into the interpretation. We hear their own side of the story. We made use of adequate and well scrutinized oral tradition, which is also very important to
Speaker: So we try as much as possible to look at it in this perspective and so far it has been good because primarily for me the research I had not long ago which was built on public archaeology generally, apart from the fact that the project was funded by the local people
Speaker: the people from the indigent of the community will give them the privilege to share their ideas. Though we do not let their ideas clear cloud judgment or interpretation, but we try to see points where we can reconcile their point of view, their history with archaeology. Where do they meet? So that is what we've been doing in Nigeria recently.
Speaker: in the aspect of trying to decolonize archaeology. So we're looking at homegrown theories and concepts that we'll look at that will change our narratives about how we see archaeology in Nigeria. And since we started, it is interesting to know that
Speaker: The people are now conscious of archaeology, you know, they want to know, they want to, oh, oh, oh, and we have situations whereby, oh, my forefather told me something about this, or there is something like this similar on my farmland, similar, you know, and we, you know, get contacted by local people to come around and investigate their culture.
Speaker: In a way, it has been great so far. Actually, it has been great so far. So, declinizing archaeology in Nigeria primarily has been based on public acquaintance and introduction.
Speaker: Excellent. And I actually am quite interested, you mentioned earlier that history was taken out of the curriculum, but was recently put back in. How does somebody study in Nigeria to become an archaeologist? How do you study in Nigeria to become an archaeologist?
Speaker: Yes. Well, during the course of your high school, you say in US, I say high school, but in Nigeria, we use the British system. So I'll say in secondary school, we have a preparatory class for people in the huts and commercial classes. They have one or two ideas about history.
Speaker: While virtually every one of us in secondary school, we have a little idea, which we call social studies. Recently it's called civic studies of DERBA. And then we have a little knowledge about our past. And then you can go ahead to learn more from home, from your parents. But at a time of entering into the university to learn archaeology, there are minimum requirements, courses which are expected to have good grades.
Speaker: And because archaeology itself is not just a one -way street, it's more or less a master of all trades, so it's a home for virtually all courses, you know, you're in faculty of science, you have a science background, I mean, or a arts background.
Speaker: you're welcome. So the thing is provided you're able to procure some percussive knowledge from your secondary school days and at the point of examination or university entry if you have good grades then you're pretty much welcome
Speaker: to come and study archaeology in Nigeria. But that doesn't mean that it's meant for everybody. But the most important thing is that you need the minimum requirement. If you don't have those minimum requirements, it might be hard for you to cope, except you are able to switch from whichever background you're coming from. I think it's just the internet, something happened there.
Speaker: No worries. So I was just wondering, are there requirements to go to field schools in Nigeria? So like, in the UK, for example, you have to go to field school to break up your experience before you become a commercial archaeologist.
Speaker: Yeah, actually in Nigeria, it's a different case. I'm quite aware of the UK system on becoming an archaeologist. But here in Nigeria, you don't just go to field, actually. You don't just go to field. In Nigeria, you have to complete a one -year program course. It's part of the program. At your first year, you take classes on methods of field techniques and so on in your first year.
Speaker: And then you take the class onto your second year, the first half of your second year. At the end of the first half of your second year, then you are allowed to participate in archaeological field work. And that field school is for about two weeks.
Speaker: It's for two weeks and that is where you're groomed in on archaeological field work practices. So you are trained by, you are supervised by trained archaeologists, but lecturers and graduate students who have been in the field for quite a number of years. So it is not that you just come in and you start digging. No, but you have to take the
Speaker: the progress and knowledge in the classroom first. It's always a source of frustration to see large museums in the UK who make up excuses for keeping items that they stole during colonial kind of times. What's the view from heritage professionals in Nigeria, especially with specifically items that were taken from Nigeria?
Speaker: Yeah, thank you very much for that question. Interestingly, I believe you are aware about the clamor against the Christie CUT on some of the heritage on their auction platform, which are just today. Actually, the country is not happy about it. Both all cultural resource managers are not happy about it. And for me personally, it remains a shame.
Speaker: know that at this current age we still have museums and auction house still perpetrating this act. Well the thing is what we've been trying to do so far is to continue with our sensitization of the local people because I must tell you the truth
Speaker: This cultural heritage did not leave the custody of their owners magically. Someone, locally, hated the transfer of these cultural materials, which is one of the sad part of it. You can imagine Christie's cut, you know,
Speaker: point blank stated that these materials were procured through with the aid of a local person so it did not come down from from Paris to come and pick it up from here like stilid I mean so it is sad actually that many of our cultural heritage you know still remains in museums and courthouse stores
Speaker: But the thing is, locally, cultural resource managers in Nigeria have been working tirelessly on how to get them back. Recently, I started a discussion on the archaeological association of Nigeria, because I haven't seen what Christi Kot has been doing recently. I was a little bit provoked.
Speaker: And I think there is need for us, you know, to have all ends on deck to mitigate some of these things going on. Because regardless of the way Christie or whoever or any other museum procure their cultural, you know, peace, I think it is still illegal to keep it away from the people.
Speaker: because it has no significance to whoever is purchasing those cultural materials. If you take it away from the people that really understand their meaning. So I think cultural heritage should not just be seen about curious objects that is just going to be kept on shelves to entertain your guests and yourself because you have the money to purchase it.
Speaker: I think there is this responsibility as a human to another human community, which is to return all this item. But I hope that what happened recently will help us move further on mitigating the sales of cultural heritage. Because I have to tell you the truth, it does not speak well of the country itself,
Speaker: And at the same time, we the cultural heritage keepers here in Nigeria. So I'm a little bit saddened by the news because yesterday I was still following it up and seeing how we can get things back. But I hope, you know, I hope that situations like that does not happen. But it's all I can say.
Speaker: for both the museum skipping heritage that do not belong to them, it is unfair and it's more or less an unjust practice, let me say that.
Speaker: I find it quite funny that sometimes the reasoning hasn't changed over the last hundred years. I have seen pretty awful kind of justifications. How do you respond to a museum who says, we would like to loan back these items to Nigeria? Do you not feel that's like, is that spitting in someone's face? You know, it's funny.
Speaker: When a guest tells you that I will let you sleep on this side of the bed, of your own bed, you know, it's funny, you know, you've got to look at it because it's a slap on her face as a country and as a people. Because how can you say you want to loan back what does not belong to you in the first place?
Speaker: How can you say you want to give me cast, a fake, a replica of what belonged to me? I see that as a shit and fraud in my own perspective, and it is wrong.
Speaker: Because for me, if you think you are entitled to have another man's thing, then I guess you shouldn't feel back when someone steals what belongs to you also. And within the confines of human emotion, I think it is wrong and it's bad judgment. And I'm glad that on this side of the world in Nigeria, the discussion is no, because we sometimes add a debate.
Speaker: On it, on repatriation of some of our cultural heritage, should they be left there? Should they be loaned back? Should we receive replicas or no? But I'm glad that the larger percentage of the voice is that no, the original should be returned.
Speaker: Because for me, I still see it as one of the effects of neocolonialism. You cannot continue to control my mind. You cannot continue to control what I deserve. It belongs to us. And historically, if we look at how many of these cultural materials were taken, they were not taken illegally. Many of them
Speaker: were taken as a result of punitive actions that were up when some of them were looted. And when you have something that does not belong to you and you can obviously see it, I think the humane thing to do is to return it to the rightful owner, not make replica or think, give us an absurd title of loaning it back. It is disrespectful.
Speaker: And I think there is need for more campaign against that kind of thought. If you want to do good, do it well. Don't do half good. Do it well. It speaks well of who you are, your personality, and how people should see you. So I totally disagree with the learning. And I see it as a slap on our face as a country and as a people.
Speaker: I wholeheartedly support that in every single way. I think it's definitely one of the things that I would like to see museums fundamentally change. This is one of the first steps that they could do to fundamentally change. You're right.
Speaker: I picked up earlier, you mentioned the archaeological association of Nigeria. Yes, yes. What is that like? How big is it? How many people in it? How does it run? Actually, archaeological association of Nigeria is not just for academics.
Speaker: Architecture Association of Nigeria is meant for all cultural resource managers, from people working in museums, to private museum keepers, to people working with the federal government, especially with the National Commission for Museums and Monuments. So it's pretty much a large body. It encourages young minds, either students or academics.
Speaker: Its main purpose is to protect cultural heritage in Nigeria. One of its goals is to enable sustainable development while protecting and promoting cultural heritage in Nigeria.
Speaker: And do you have conferences for archaeology in Nigeria very often? Yeah, we have annual conferences. If not for the COVID pandemic, which is currently ongoing, we pray that it ends very soon.
Speaker: We hope to have one. I think by June, I think between July and August, there should be one. Unfortunately, we cannot have it. So, annually we have our conferences.
Speaker: I've been privileged to attend two sessions now, one in the University of Benway, in Benway State University, Makori, and the other one I attended at Unsuka. So far, it has been great. So that is one of the platforms which we tend to let the government understand what is going on outside.
Speaker: outside the country and within our borders, how to preserve, prevent looting, and no, no, no. So we have our conferences annually in Nigeria.
Speaker: What is it that you would like to say to archaeologists around the world? What is one thing that you feel about maybe Nigerian archaeology or African heritage that you feel people have the wrong impression about? Yeah, thank you very much for this privilege. So I'll just go straight to it. One, I want to say this. At this age, at this point in time,
Speaker: I think archaeologists cannot be complacent in their duty first to the cultural heritage materials themselves and secondly to posterity and the ancestors that produce the materials which we are the sole custodian of today.
Speaker: And what do I mean by this? Why am I saying this? In the last couple of years, I have discovered that many of our scholars are primarily these days, you know, relenting on their efforts to carry out their duties. And people that stop publishing, or probably when they publish, the publications are not good enough.
Speaker: And I think the more we stop to engage the materials, to do good by these materials, the more we as archaeologists lose our relevance. And I think that if we do not carry out our duties as cultural resource managers, then I don't know what we are doing. I don't see why we should be archaeologists.
Speaker: And I think, secondly, I want to say this. Nigeria, for instance, to a possible extent, we are curtailed by the kind of, let me say, we are curtailed by
Speaker: how much funding we get for research. That is a very huge element which we combat here in this part of the world. Several of us don't have good grants to carry out research, which is one of the reasons why we have weak research designs and execution of archaeological project. So I think that if we have more organizations, locally and internationally,
Speaker: putting in more efforts to fund more archaeological research in this part of the world in Nigeria and in Africa at large, we can do more to promote archaeology and more audience can get to understand us. And again, it has always been my prerogative that archaeologists need to widen their scope of audience. We cannot continue to speak to ourselves in conference rooms and in publications.
Speaker: We need to widen our scope of our audience. We need to talk to the masses who need this cultural knowledge, who these materials can speak to, can inspire. So if we do not desist from just talking to ourselves and then we continue to use our archaeological jargon,
Speaker: You know, the layman out there, the person might be a professional, might be a medical doctor, you know, the layman out there that is not aware of some of our archaeological concepts, might not really understand the relevance because of how we put out our words to them. So I think that archaeologists in this age should understand their audience and then pass the message directly to them in a language which they will understand and appreciate.
Speaker: because the essence of us doing this research and being archaeologists is so that we can impact life and those lives can impact their community and as a community at large, they can build the nation towards sustainable development and peace and unity sustenance. So I think that archaeologists at this age need to do more. Like I said earlier, we cannot be complacent. Secondly,
Speaker: We need to encourage adequate and more funding for research in this part of the world and totally we need to widen our scope of audience. We need to communicate more to the people and we need to let the people understand what we are doing as archaeologists. We don't just want to be isolated because sincerely archaeology is not esoteric. It is not just something that exists
Speaker: in the clouds, you know, in the space. It is something people can relate with every day.
Speaker: you know especially in this part of the world there is hardly a day that you will not think about your past there is hardly a day and the archaeology therefore cannot be complacent we can just do less than what is expected of us so i will implore archaeologists all over the world to do their very best to be diligent you know to be faithful to the work which they've decided to do not just for the grants not just to make name not just the phd
Speaker: but rather to make no to be faithful to the work which they've solely decided to do. Don't under any circumstance be pressured to selling or keeping no cultural materials that belong to the people for yourself. It is for me, I see it as being criminal. So we should be faithful to our duty as archaeologists.
Speaker: That is really, really powerful. That is something I can fully support and get behind. I want to know more of a personal story. What part of history that you've discovered has really spoken to you as a person? What part of history really means a lot to you? Wow. Thank you very much. Primarily for me, let me say this. I am from the Yoruba ethnic group of Nigeria.
Speaker: And there is this notion that all Yoruba people are from in Liefle. I want you to hold that in mind first. About a couple of years ago, I know where my family is, my father is from, I know which community he belongs to, but where did my community come from?
Speaker: Who am I? Who is Baluwaji? Who is he? Who are his ancestors? I am back on the journey, about a couple of years back, to know where I belong to in the family tree of the Yoruba race. And interestingly, I find myself within the lineage of Obalufon.
Speaker: And the upper luffin is believed to be one of the patriarchs of an elite, you know, as early as the 9th century AD. And this man was a great man, actually, as the history described him. He's a man that brought peace and unity and consolidated the government
Speaker: of Elif at that point in time and secondly he was believed to be the patron and the sponsor of many of the technological advances that happen in Elif from the bronze casting to textiles to so many other things at that time you know creation of a lot of monoliths and all and then
Speaker: How he consolidated the government at that time was something that really, really, really inspires me a lot. Now, apart from the fact that he's a preacher of peace, you know, he brought his life to a very, very prominent state in the history of the Yoruba people. And for me personally, this is something that challenges me every day.
Speaker: You know, I feel I can do anything. He is my patriarch. He is my ancestor. I belong to his lineage. And every time I go out, I see him in me.
Speaker: You know, I might not have known him, but because of what I've heard about him, it gives me this sense of belongingness and a sense of pride in who I am. My identity has ever since then been changed. And in a way, it influenced the way I practice archaeology and how I hold the materials in so much in high regards.
Speaker: Looking at myself in this history that has come hundreds or thousands of years, I see myself not just floating. I'm not just floating in history. I'm part of it. And I live it every day. And it encourages me to pass it on to my children. I know personally I cannot go out and constitute nuisance because my forefathers did not
Speaker: I cannot go out. I am a maker. I should think in a creative way to ensure that my community is at peace, to ensure that my community is progressive, because that was what my forefathers did. He did not sit back and let the ultimate come to shame. He did his effort. He made sure that the community grew stronger and stronger. So that is how I see myself. That is how I see myself in history.
Speaker: And I look at it that when I pass it on also, people will talk about me too in the nearest, probably later in the future. Sorry, I was saying that was really, really lovely and really beautiful. And I think that connection is so important for each of us to have to the past. Is there any way I can help?
Speaker: If I am living outside of Nigeria, what ways in which can I support the archaeologists in Nigeria? What can I do? This is a very interesting question, which I so much appreciate. Now, one of the ways you can help is what you're doing right now.
Speaker: to tell more of our activities in Nigeria, about archaeology in Nigeria. I don't know if you've attended the conferences where Nigerians participate, but if you have, you will see that we have quite a number of people in attendance. So one of the ways which you could help as a person is what you're doing right now.
Speaker: broadcasting about archaeology in Nigeria. And in one way, you're promoting our engagement right here in Nigeria. You know what? Nigeria is not just those sites. Archaeologists in Nigeria are not just those sites. They are doing their work. And then if you will permit me, I can share your link with quite a number of friends who are currently doing their research. And they can share some of their experience with you, pictures in the unknown unknown, which you can continue to broadcast to the world
Speaker: on the things Nigerian archaeologists are doing to promote their own cultural heritage. I wouldn't want to say you give us donations, but what you're doing, which we appreciate right now, is speaking more about Nigerian archaeology in positive light.
Speaker: It is very, very important and encouraging for archaeologists in this part of the world. Continue, let me use the word, preach the archaeology going on in Nigeria. That's excellent. Well, thank you very much for taking time out of your day to come and speak to me. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much for inviting me to this interesting podcast.
Speaker: You know it's clear, misconception to hell, dear They told you what you wanna hear Why can't you see that the truth will set you free? Expose this modern bill for you, dear
Speaker: This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www .archpodnet .com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork .com.
