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Statement on Ukraine from CBA & Government ‘unlawful’ on planning AGAIN! - WB 15.04.2022
110 Plays2 years ago
Welcome to Watching Brief. As the name implies, each week Marc (Mr Soup) & Andy Brockman of the Pipeline (Where history is tomorrow's news) cast an eye over news stories, topical media and entertainment and discuss and debate what they find.
#archaeologynews #thepipeline #archaeosoup
Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/archaeosoup
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0:00 Introduction
1:44 UK Arch Response to Ukraine
2:35 Letters from Ukraine & Russia
8:43 Statement from Neil Redfern
12:13 Open Letter to UNESCO WHC
16:15 Problems with ‘Homes for Ukraine’
26:09 Context of Holocaust Memorial
32:39 Government ‘Unlawful’
43:37 Closing Comments
***
Link of the Week:
Disasters Emergency Committee:
***
Links:
Letters: War in Europe: - Current Archaeology: May/ June 2022:
https://archaeologyuk.org/asset/12DE3F33-2F10-405C-8D6F86A90A63EFFD/
Neil Redfern Letter (photograph courtesy of a viewer) - Current Archaeology: May/ June 2022:
https://twitter.com/Archaeos0up/status/1512709194192982020
Open letter to the UNESCO World Heritage Committee:https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/open-letter-to-the-unesco-world-heritage-committee-7-april-2022/open-letter-to-the-unesco-world-heritage-committee
Damaged Cultural Sites in Ukraine Verified by UNESCO:
https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/damaged-cultural-sites-ukraine-verified-unesco
Homes for Ukraine scheme: ‘I design Government systems for a living and it took me days’ to apply for visa:
Ukraine war: Minister who took in refugee says friendship will 'last lifetime' - but there are issues with scheme:
Just 1,200 Ukrainian refugees in UK homes under sponsorship scheme as 71% of applicants still waiting:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/homes-for-ukraine-scheme-uk-arrivals-b2053862.html
Displaced Ukrainian students to receive free tuition in Scotland:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Soupcast
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Soupcast, coming to you from Archaeosoup Towers. By popular demand, we're taking selected videos from the Archaeosoup back catalogue and bringing them to you as convenient podcasts. As the name implies, with Archaeosoup you get a bit of everything thrown into the pot. Archaeology, discussion, humour and debate. You can find out more at archaeosoup.com. So sit back, relax and enjoy our hearty helping of Archaeosoup.
Weekly Watching Brief Introduction
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Watching Brief for the week of the 11th of April 2022. I am joined as ever by the superb Mr Andy Brockman, who I gather is quite looking forward to a bank holiday weekend. It's Easter weekend
00:00:56
Speaker
And those of us who are sane and or paid by people who aren't ourselves are trying to get four days in a row off. Now, I don't fall into either of those categories necessarily, but I promise Mrs. Soup I'll try. So what's your weekend looking like?
00:01:14
Speaker
Pretty similar to yours. I shipped a piece of work which I needed to get out the door this morning so I'm now clear until Tuesday. And we've got sunshine outside and we're getting nuts in the garden and it's all looking really rather nice and peaceful.
00:01:32
Speaker
aren't we just so lucky? We are indeed. We are lucky indeed.
Government and Planning Law Issues
00:01:36
Speaker
Very fortunate. And in this week's watching brief, before we try and take a little bit of time off, we'll be talking in the second half with regards to, unfortunately, the government falling foul of planning laws once again. This stuff is important as it does pertain to the urban, the countryside environment and also the historic environment. For example, we've seen the government
00:02:02
Speaker
having been found to have acted unlawfully in and around the vicinity of Stonehenge in recent months. So we're going to be looking at that. But before we go there, we're going to start with a little up-sum of what's happened since we last spoke on Watching Brief, because we didn't technically do a Watching
Archaeological Response to Ukraine
00:02:24
Speaker
Brief last week. We wanted to give the previous episode some space to breathe.
00:02:28
Speaker
And we just wanted just to summarize, I suppose, ArchiWorld UK's response to the situation in Ukraine. And initially, I mean, we touched on the fact that SIFA, for example, the Chartered Institute for Archaeologists had initially tweeted seemingly in response to other people sharing a hashtag that we had helped to launch.
00:02:53
Speaker
We also put touch on the fact that FAME blocked us as well in that flurry of activity. But since then, other things have happened. And, well, would you like to start?
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, we'll start at the British end and then we'll sort of expand out to updates on what's been going on. You're at wider worldwide with organisations like the UN. We flagged up previously that British archaeology, the magazine of the Council of British Archaeology that's edited by Mike Pitts, was going to carry material about Ukraine.
00:03:30
Speaker
And in fact, the issue concerned was published last Friday. It's now available in bookshops if you can find a hard copy. It's also available online if you have a subscription. But the Ukraine material, which Mike published it, promised and published in the, in the letter section, yeah, in the letter section of magazine, yeah, is actually available
00:03:57
Speaker
It's been taken out from behind the paywall and you can download it and read it and share it. So that's a really great move on the part of the magazine. Absolutely. It was briefly unavailable for an unknown number of days, but certainly a couple of days, possibly due to a website glitch, it seems. So maybe there was a website update. We're not quite sure, but unless it is back available again, just in case anyone's following this on our Twitter feeds and that we'll have the link below accordingly.
00:04:25
Speaker
That's right, and I do urge people to read, particularly the two letters now. They will have been written a month or so ago now, so they're not reflecting up to the minute issues, but that's not really important because you can follow that material with organisations like UNESCO and something we can talk about in a bit.
00:04:48
Speaker
What you have really are two longish letters that are worth reading. One is from a Fedyev Androshchuk, who is the Director General of the National Museum of the History of Ukraine, Eton Keve.
00:05:04
Speaker
And a second letter, which is when you read it, you'll see it's necessarily anonymous from a, it would appear to be an academic post, probably a UK academic who has been working with colleagues in Russia and putting in conflict archeology, we talked about the view from the other side of the hill. In other words, that you have to
00:05:28
Speaker
look at and reflect on information from both sides in a conflict. Otherwise, you can't get a fair picture. And that in particular raises some very interesting and quite naughty issues where I come to in a minute. The
00:05:45
Speaker
the the the letter from the letter from uh video and rush hook um really talks about the response in the very early hours of the invasion of the war um on the part of his museum community and um talks about for example uh the steps that were taken using actually a a cold war protocol that was set up under the Warsaw Pact ironically enough
00:06:10
Speaker
about protecting artworks and cultural material from what's described as mass damage and so they for example triage exhibits between what are of sort of national importance and others that are of you know international importance of universal world value to use the kind of jargon that we'd use in the
00:06:38
Speaker
I'm not going to quite either of these lessons in detail really just to highlight that they are two very important views and they really
00:06:50
Speaker
you in the shoes of people having to make decisions that most of us would never hope to have to make in our academic lives and our careers as archaeologists and public archaeologists. In the one case facing physical destruction potentially and also members of staff who we've seen elsewhere in social media and so on, museum workers, heritage workers in Ukraine,
00:07:17
Speaker
working on protecting cultural sites and then getting into combat fatigues, picking up a rifle and going off to fight.
00:07:26
Speaker
On the other hand, from the other side of the hill, it talks about the regret, the missed opportunities, the difficulty of talking about the issues even in a society where the state is basically it doesn't allow open debate. And in fact, if you argue against the uncertainty, you'll seem to come out against the word public, you face now I think it's 10 to 15 years essentially in jail.
00:07:57
Speaker
But it also talks about just the little things, the things that people might not realize, for example, what happens if you want to license an image, say, from a Russian museum for an academic paper or for a book, and sanctions mean you can't actually pay for it.
Academic Boycotts and Their Impact
00:08:14
Speaker
Yes, yeah. So, but also, you know, around the idea of
00:08:23
Speaker
is an academic boycott in these circumstances is a good thing or a bad thing. I mean, people might be familiar with those arguments going right back to the sporting and cultural boycotts of apartheid South Africa in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. And the argument there was that it hastened the end of apartheid. The question is now,
00:08:43
Speaker
Is it actually better to continue to interact with Russian colleagues as individuals who may be privately will disown the policies of the Putin government?
00:08:54
Speaker
Um, because maintaining contact is more important than what some people would argue a performative act like, um, like a boycott. So naughty, naughty and difficult issues. Certainly. Um, they're available in, uh, in that PDF. Again, I say we'll put the link below.
00:09:14
Speaker
In addition to that, we also managed to hunt down a screen grab, because I actually called every Dibber 8 Smith news agent within a 19-minute drive of me and couldn't find a physical copy of British Archaeology magazine. So thankfully, one of the wonderful people who follow Archaeology on Facebook took a photo of the digital copy on their phone, and it contained a brief statement from Neil Redfern.
00:09:41
Speaker
Now I'll read this statement out but what I will say is this statement first of all echoes something that the CBA have already said and secondly it could have easily been a three-tweet thread weeks ago.
00:09:55
Speaker
I'm still not sure entirely what value it is being published in a relatively niche magazine here in the UK instead of being on Twitter, but unless this was his statement. After all, he is doing his best. We are all aware of the devastating war in Ukraine and the destruction and the impact on people's lives, a part of which is reflected in the letters page of this magazine, as we've just been discussing.
00:10:22
Speaker
As a small charity promoting the archaeology in the UK, the Council for British Archaeology, CBA, is not in a position to take an active role in propering advice or campaigning about the war, its effects on heritage, or its effects on heritage.
00:10:36
Speaker
However, as director of the CBA, I say we fully support the people of Ukraine and those organisations who have a direct role in helping them. Their suffering is at the forefront of all of our thoughts." So that was a very welcome statement and it was released in the most recent issue of British Archaeology magazine.
00:11:04
Speaker
And I think we'll leave our viewers to decide for themselves whether or not that is adequate.
00:11:12
Speaker
All I would say is that other archaeological bodies are being more proactive in terms of talking about issues such as protecting comprehension. I've come onto the UNESCO information that's been coming out about what's been happening to cultural sites in Ukraine in a minute. Traditionally, as you pointed out previously, CBA was one of those organizations that was involved in highlighting the need for the Hague Convention.
00:11:40
Speaker
Actually, the UK archaeology community, many individuals and many organisations, lobbied over a number of years for the UK government to ratify the Hay Convention on the protection of cultural material in conflict zones. The convention was written in 1954. I think it wasn't until I think 2017 that the UK actually ratified and it was seen as a big win for archaeology. So I think
00:12:09
Speaker
I'm not going to pick out CBA here, but the leading bodies, several of the leading bodies in UK archaeology, including CBA, but also SIFA and FAME, the Federation of Archaeological Managers and Employers, none of them have cited the importance of the Hague, even though they or their members were involved in getting the UK to ratify.
00:12:39
Speaker
So there does seem to be a little bit of a disconnect there. So I suppose stepping away from our key world, we then have, there was a policy paper, an open letter to UNESCO World Heritage Committee, published on the GOV.UK website, wasn't there?
00:12:59
Speaker
That's right. This is a letter to the members of the UNESCO World Heritage Committee, which is a branch of UNESCO, United Nations Education, Scientific and Cultural Organization. It was published on the 8th of April.
00:13:13
Speaker
and it is connected with the fact that by pure accident and somewhat ironically, the next meeting of that committee is due to be held in Kazan in Russia in the summer and under the chairmanship of the Russian Federation.
00:13:33
Speaker
Now, the letter basically asks the World Heritage Committee to remove the meeting from Kazan and remove Russia as the chair. They argue that, for example, I've got just quite a few short paragraphs, we'll link to the entire letter. It's not very long, we'll link to the whole thing.
00:14:00
Speaker
It says on 24th February 2022 Russia launched an armed offensive against Ukraine. One month later intense fighting continues with hundreds of lives lost and the buildings and sometimes entire cities devastated. According to figures recently released by the UNESCO Secretariat 53 cultural buildings, historical built monuments, places of worship libraries etc had been damaged or destroyed by 31 March and it's likely that figure has since risen.
00:14:26
Speaker
It then says, Article 6.3 of the 1972 World Heritage Convention states, each state party to this convention undertakes not to take any deliberate measures which might damage directly or indirectly cultural or natural heritage referred to in various articles, situating the territory of other states' parties of this convention.
00:14:46
Speaker
It is impossible for the 45th session of the World Heritage Committee to be held either in Kazan or under Russian presidency, while the latter is destroying, quote, outstanding universal value in Ukraine. The credibility of UNESCO, the 1972 Convention protecting the world's cultural and natural heritage is at stake.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, and on a similar note, actually, I believe this is probably published on the 11th of April, UNESCO issued a statement with regards to the damaged cultural sites in Ukraine that have been verified by UNESCO. Now, they hasten to add that no UNESCO heritage sites have been damaged. World Heritage Sites. World Heritage Sites, sorry, have been damaged, to be clear.
00:15:30
Speaker
But as of the 11th of April, UNESCO has verified, damaged in 90 sites and since the 24th of February, 44 religious buildings, 6 museums, 25 historical buildings, 3 theatres, 11 monuments and 1 library have been destroyed or damaged.
00:15:48
Speaker
UNESCO is conducting a preliminary damage assessment for cultural properties, term cultural property here refers to immovable cultural property as defined in the article 1 of the 1954 Hague Convention, irrespective of its origin, ownership or status of registration in the national inventory and facilities and monuments dedicated to culture and including memorials.
00:16:13
Speaker
and they go on to give a detailed list by region in Ukraine.
00:16:19
Speaker
So I think that's probably, that's a very sensible letter to send. Hopefully, Russia isn't able to act in what would appear to be a bad faith role, if they do go forward, or if they were allowed to go forward. I mean, they've also been removed from the UN Human Rights Council. That's a yes. Understandably. I mean, understandably.
00:16:46
Speaker
Now, it's worthwhile pointing out, one of the things that we were advocating and that we were encouraging other people to suggest to friends and colleagues in archaeology was to do with here in the UK, the Homes for Ukraine scheme.
Homes for Ukraine Scheme Challenges
00:17:02
Speaker
We initially had a request to make it clear that we weren't asking archaeological bodies to do this, but rather people may be as individuals acting within the Homes for Ukraine scheme.
00:17:14
Speaker
And it is worthwhile saying that the Home for Ukraine scheme is not perfect. It is the only official scheme that our country is offering for people who are fleeing conflict in Ukraine. And given that today, this morning, in fact, our Prime Minister announced a scheme whereby refugees from other countries
00:17:34
Speaker
will be of, sorry, certain refugees from other countries, notably young men, are likely to be sent off to Rwanda to either live in that, quote, dynamic country, or in the spirit of being a beacon of freedom and, was it freedom and hope? No, freedom and generosity, wasn't it? Being permitted to fill out their refugee forms in Rwanda before they, having got to Britain, before they were allowed to come back to Britain, if they are.
00:18:02
Speaker
The Holmes Ukraine scheme actually does look rather generous by comparison, I would say. However, it is not perfect. And there are a couple of reports that we're linking to below where it is being criticized. Now, notably, it's been criticized primarily for being shoddy.
00:18:19
Speaker
We have a link here from here. And Tuesday on cumbersome. Well, precisely. Yeah. A link here from MSN Home or msn.com. Home to Ukraine scheme is written by Molly Blackhall, I believe, as a Briton hoping to host the Ukrainian family under the Home to Ukraine scheme.
00:18:35
Speaker
The person that she was interviewing said that it took two days to complete their complex visa applications, even though she designs government systems for a living. Elise Jones, who lives in Liverpool, is trying to host a family of four, two sisters in law and their children, a five-year-old girl and a seven-year-old boy.
00:18:55
Speaker
The family tried for an entire day to fill out forms but could not manage it and so handed it over to Ms Jones. I designed government services for a living, she said, and it took me two six-hour days to do four Bs of forms. It's that complex. Even now, I have no confidence that I have done it right.
00:19:13
Speaker
She completed the forms on the 23rd of March, but two applicants did not have an international passport, so had to go to Visa Application Centre to process, and so on and so forth. So it's complicated, it is drawn out, it's making some people's lives very difficult. There are reports of Ukrainian families giving up altogether and just going back to a war zone.
00:19:33
Speaker
because they can't stay in Northern Italy or wherever else they appear to be, while people here in the UK who are offering them their homes try and make their way through this scheme. With regards to the Ukrainian War, the minister who took in a refugee has said that the friendship that she has achieved through taking in this refugee will last a lifetime, but there are issues with the scheme.
00:19:57
Speaker
This is the story of Environment Minister Victoria Prentice, who has taken an Ukrainian woman into her Oxfordshire home as part of the Homes for Ukraine scheme. She said that she has developed a relationship that will last the rest of her lives, but admitted that there have been problems with the scheme. So far, just 15% of 32,200 visa applications received under the government's Homes for Ukraine scheme have been granted,
00:20:20
Speaker
Ministers for Refugees, Lord Harrington has admitted that the government was not geared up, not ready for the volume of Ukrainians seeking refuge in the UK. It turns out that Ukrainians really do want refuge in the UK, apparently. Mrs Prentice said that there was not a moment of indecision before she decided to take on Vika, who has stated that she's incredibly grateful for the opportunity to come and seek refuge.
00:20:48
Speaker
She is welcome to stay as long as she needs, the minister said. However, groups like Conservative Home and others are, in addition to pointing out the fact that it is difficult and a cumbersome process, that there are questions at this stage as to what happens after the six months of the scheme are up.
00:21:04
Speaker
One can only presume that the scheme will continue in some form while it's required, but obviously that hasn't been confirmed. So there is another question mark there with regards to the Homes for Ukraine scheme. It isn't specifically, for example, a job scheme. It is a homes scheme where people are welcome to come and work and live in the UK while they are here.
00:21:28
Speaker
So, oh well, and also in addition to this, there's another figure here from the Independent, just 1,200 Ukrainian refugees in the UK, and UK homes and the sponsorship scheme is 71% of applicants are still waiting. So the figures are high, whether it's in the 80s or the 70s, it is a slow process. Needless bureaucracy and delays ministers have been accused of, and also squandering British generosity.
00:21:53
Speaker
So, yeah, it's not perfect, but it's what we've got. What do you think, Andy? Well, it's not perfect, but it is what we've got. It is pretty much the only way, realistic way for refugees from Ukraine to come to the UK at the moment without the even worse bureaucracy of things like work visas.
00:22:19
Speaker
Now, there are a couple of things I think I'd like to add. As of this morning, the Scottish government has announced a new initiative whereby students from Ukraine taking up full-time FE and HE courses from the new academic year beginning the autumn will not have to pay for tuition and will also get support for their living costs.
00:22:43
Speaker
They've also announced a scheme for existing students from Ukraine who might have trouble, for example, if their parents can't send them money. And are we certain that those students wouldn't rather that we simply gave them weapons?
00:22:59
Speaker
That's not what this is about. This is about people who are in country, who are in education, and the Scottish government at least has announced this scheme. It's not immediately affected. They have to tweak Scottish education legislation, but given that the SNP, along with the Greens, form a government there, it's going to happen.
00:23:26
Speaker
So once again it's a scheme that's responding to a need to identify precisely precisely that precisely that and I think again it's worth highlighting the the need this again the probably the best data is from the UNHCR the UN High Commission for Refugees it's a sort of gold standard for figures and I think
00:23:49
Speaker
people will understand. And of course, and as another UN official said yesterday, there are many other crises going on in the world, in Yemen, in Ethiopia, and Tigray, which we mentioned on much in brief previously. Yeah, which I actually checked. I've been tweeting about this stuff for a decade, Andy.
00:24:09
Speaker
I just thought I'd highlight that. I'd propose everything, of course. Exactly. We have been covering these stories for some time. Ukraine is particularly massive. It's happened particularly quickly.
00:24:28
Speaker
because we're dealing with, at least on the one side, one of the world's two main nuclear powers, it has potentially global implications. So I think we're absolutely justified in highlighting it. It's the second largest country by land mass in our continent, so on and so forth. So just to put the whole thing in context, since the 24th of February, UNHCR estimates that
00:24:55
Speaker
4,736,471 people up to end of yesterday, 13 April, have become refugees from Ukraine. That's just since the war began. Poland has taken almost 2.7 million, Romania 716,000
00:25:20
Speaker
797. Hungary, getting almost a quarter of a million. Moldova, one of the smallest countries and poorest countries in Europe, almost 418,000. And so on. And
00:25:42
Speaker
Again, the UN estimates that the entire Ukrainian diaspora in the UNHCR is your region. So the country is most immediately affected, including Britain.
00:25:52
Speaker
And obviously this includes people who are already working away from country or in education or in work or whatever, but it's something like five million. So, you know, you're adding almost as many again to that diaspora.
00:26:12
Speaker
And just to compare those figures again, that's almost 2 million refugees have gone to Poland. 2.7 million. 2.7 was almost 3 million. OK. And at the moment, as of a couple of days ago, Britain has accepted 1,200 refugees in the Home Street Ukraine scheme. Yes. OK. OK. And I should just add, I'm currently working on the story about how archaeologists have tried to engage with the Home Street Ukraine scheme. Yeah.
00:26:40
Speaker
Okay, moving on to the second portion of this week's
Planning Issues for Holocaust Memorial
00:26:45
Speaker
watching brief. We have a story of how our government has fallen foul once again of the planning system. The proposal for a Holocaust learning centre and memorial not too far from the grounds of Westminster have
00:27:05
Speaker
Well, it sounds quite complicated. What's actually happened? Because this has been floating around for a little while now, hasn't it?
00:27:11
Speaker
It has, and we've covered the story before. Basically, the Memorial Trust was set up to create a national monument and learning center to remember the Holocaust. A design was commissioned from a J.A. associate and one-arid architect, very high profile.
00:27:38
Speaker
architectural firms and the situation was that
00:27:49
Speaker
although the local authority had, which is Westminster, had refused planning permission, because of the sensitivity of the site, which is the Victoria Tower Garden, proposed sites, Victoria Tower Garden, which is a triangular public park at the western end, the upstream end of the Houses of Parliament. Now the Holocaust, the trust who wanted the project to go ahead,
00:28:14
Speaker
were adamant that they felt it should be close to the seat of government to reflect the involvement of the government for good and ill in the period of Holocaust and for example in
00:28:30
Speaker
uh, strangely enough, keeping refugees from Europe out in the period running up to September 1939. Which, yes, things like the Kindertransport, which were in fact were private operations, um, run by
00:28:47
Speaker
human beings trying to be charitable to other human beings and often opposed by government officials. So yeah, so there are all sorts of, and that's as the education is arguably required. It's a good thing to have available. Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:03
Speaker
Absolutely. And it has to be said, none of the campaigners opposing this project oppose the idea of a national Holocaust memorial for the United Kingdom. The slogan has been, we're using it on our publicity for this video, right idea, wrong place. Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
The problem as opponents saw it were really twofold. One is that it's one of the few public green spaces in that part of London and this would have been quite a substantial imposition albeit an architecturally interesting one. Well actually I should tell you the image, the proposal in terms of a projection as to what it might have looked like
00:29:55
Speaker
is quite striking I mean it consisted of 23 bronze fins seemingly almost leaning and then sort of falling like dominoes and the concrete kind of basin that led towards at one end you can see part of the of Westminster Palace there so it would have been quite striking but as you say at the expense of that green space
00:30:20
Speaker
That's right. It's called Victoria Tower Gardens. It's also famous for hosting, for example, the Statute of the Burgers of Calais, the Rodin statue, and also to early women parliamentarians and so on. So it's
00:30:40
Speaker
In fact, I remember I was there shortly after the murder of the labour MP Jo Cox just before the Brexit referendum. And there was an impromptu commemoration trying to her memory in that garden. It was private, it was quiet, it was an appropriate place and people were adopting it to make their feelings known in that very sad circumstance.
00:31:08
Speaker
So there is precedent for the part being used for contemplation.
00:31:13
Speaker
But the idea was that this was just too big a project in an area where traffic access is poor, it's busy. Obviously, it works both ways with something like a memorial to the Holocaust because sadly, security considerations have to be taken into account. So the idea was it's also a secure location. It's one of the most secure locations in London in terms of how much it's watched by police and security services.
00:31:40
Speaker
So on that front side, can I just tell you a little anecdote? I have a friend who used to work in, is it called the Jewel Tower next to Westminster? Stoneman's College Green, I think it is. Yeah, and
00:31:58
Speaker
No, no, no. It's in the shadow of Parliament. It's in the shadow of Parliament. The jolt. Oh, is it in both? Sorry, I don't... OK. Fine, fine. See, I'm speaking, isn't it? It cleans the name of Westminster Mark. It's called Westminster. It's one place, you idiot. So, yeah, OK.
00:32:15
Speaker
You're from out of town. I know. I'm a simpleton from up north. The Jewel Tower, he said, it's run by the National Trust, and he said that he was told that they weren't allowed to go on the roof for any reason without phoning a particular office that would then radio the police to say,
00:32:38
Speaker
someone's going out on the roof. Whether that was decorating or checking for leaks or something, whatever the reason, you could get shot because you might be seen as someone who's there to do ill to people who are passing in and around Parliament. It's a very, very secure area, even for employees of the National Trust.
00:33:10
Speaker
This whole process has taken something like eight years. It was originally announced by David Cameron when he was still Prime Minister. It's five years since Aja and Arad were appointed to come up with the plan. It's been through planning inquiries, local authority planning committees and
00:33:31
Speaker
eventually the decision ended up with the government. A government minister basically, a man called Christopher Pinscher, who was then the housing minister, his planning comes under the housing communities and local government portfolio, essentially waves through the plan.
00:33:54
Speaker
in spite of the fact that the government was actually the applicant in that the opponents argued that the UK Holocaust Memorial Foundation was essentially a part of the government. The government had driven the project. Pincher said that he made the decision based on the advice from the planning inspectorate because they've been a public inquiry in 2020.
00:34:18
Speaker
The cut into the chase. We are where we are now because the London Historic Parks and Garden Trust
00:34:34
Speaker
took the case to judicial review, which we've talked about before in connection with Stonehenge, as you mentioned, right at the top of the show. It is one of the few tools that opponents to schemes of any kind or government actions of any kind have when they believe that something inappropriate has happened, including a government body, a government minister acting unlawfully.
00:35:02
Speaker
What happened here was that following a judicial review at the end of March into April, this is Justice Thornton, in these cases I've seen by single.
00:35:17
Speaker
a single judge, ruled that the whole public inquiry and planning report weren't valid. And that was because a historian, in fact, someone who used to work at the House of Commons, had written an argument
00:35:38
Speaker
that the planning decision hadn't taken into account. The London County Council brackets improvements and brackets at 1900. Now, the importance of that, that act, Act of Parliament contains a clause which says that the Victoria Tower Garden
00:35:57
Speaker
should be maintained as a garden in perpetuity. Right, yeah. And that was a material consideration and it hadn't been considered and it should have been and therefore this is Justice Thornton quash the planning permission.
00:36:10
Speaker
So the government was in a weird position there where, I mean, they, I'm sure some people in the current government would say that the previous government was a different, a whole different kettle of fish back in 2016. But, but unless they were sort of judging the validity of their own proposal. And, and it also as well falling foul of this, of this particular law from 19 provision, sorry, for the park in the 1900. Yeah.
00:36:37
Speaker
And the point was, you know, there had been written submission warning them about this warning them that the London County Council improvements act was relevant, and they'd ignored it. Yeah. And so, you know, in a sense, what was just Justin Thornton was saying was that, you know,
00:37:00
Speaker
be more careful next time, guys. Don't ignore relevant legislation. Yeah. We should say we've linked to the PDF that contains- Of the entire judgments. Of the judgment below. So you can check it out if you're really interested. And also the blog post by Joshua Rosenberg, wrong place, right ruling. And again, it's interesting to point out
00:37:25
Speaker
that the opposition to this hasn't just been from people like the London Parks and Gardens Society. Many members of the Jewish community have also opposed this for various different reasons, but it's not in any way
00:37:47
Speaker
even underlying an anti-Semitic argument. It's absolutely about planning and appropriateness of place. Some of those questions have been surrounding the meaning as well, because actually from above there's this sort of great grand sweeping path that leads up to an earthwork that then encompasses the bronze fins. It's a very elegant shape
00:38:09
Speaker
but people were asking what does this what does this mean anyway you know and so so yeah some of that stuff but regardless lawyers representing the government have argued and that there was no error of law um and in the decision making process in this instance and that policy was not misinterpreted or misapplied so uh i think they're trying to say let's agree to disagree
00:38:34
Speaker
Yeah and by the way it wasn't the party and the cake never came out of the Tupperware.
00:38:39
Speaker
That's going to be the least of their problems. Apparently, there's more coming down the track there. But anyway, government lawyers and the people who are backing the National Holocaust Memorial will be considering the next moves. We're also linking to one of the latest articles about this, which is an upsum from The Architect's Journal. And it basically says it ain't all over yet.
00:39:07
Speaker
Essentially, the government could appeal the decision they might lose again. It could have another planning inquiry. It could even go as far as repealing the London County Council Improvements Act 1900 to get rid of the legal obstacle. Which they can do. But then that will still lead, but all of those activities will still lead them into further planning inquiries and potential for more traditional reviews.
00:39:34
Speaker
which is really crucial here and this is probably where we need to sort of underscore and maybe round it up with a reminder that it's judicial review that highlighted what was quote unlawful with regards to Stonehenge. Judicial review is also the thing that people who have fallen foul of judicial review
00:39:57
Speaker
seemingly described as being inconvenient and getting in the way of the business of government moving at a pace that it would like to move on certain issues. So we're highlighting this partly because it may sound like a very niche British, UK, London
00:40:14
Speaker
part of London planning issue, but actually it's important because this is exactly those moments where judicial review, where the minutiae of law, where the budgets that come into these sorts of things are very, very important to take a look at before jumping on the bandwagon, I guess, or before saying yes or no to it. There's a lot more that goes into it and long may we keep judicial review. By no means is it guaranteed forever.
00:40:44
Speaker
No, it's, well, to coin a phrase, it's use it or lose it. Yeah. And if there is a threat to lose it, then fight for it. Because as you say, it is one of the few tools that civil society has to stand up to government when government has clearly acted unlawfully, or really unthinkingly.
00:41:08
Speaker
In this case, unlawfully, there was an active parliament, which they were told about, and they ignored. They didn't think it mattered. And yes, it did. But I think the thing I'd finished by saying is that the sadness of it, obviously, is the time that's been wasted. One of the aims was to get the National Holocaust Memorial in place while there was still a substantial number of Holocaust survivors, people with a direct memory of those events, alive and able to bear witness.
00:41:38
Speaker
and those are a diminishing band of people now. Well we saw the value of that sort of effort when it came to the bomber command didn't we and then the memorial there, the ability to actually have some of those people witness those events being memorialised in the heart of the capital.
00:41:56
Speaker
That's right. And one can point to other similar memorializations of significant historical events. So had people been more sensitive, had they listened, had they chosen a different site? Well, I mean, for example, it's been suggested that York or Leicester, where there were anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle Ages, would be an appropriate site.
00:42:23
Speaker
for something like that because it links the whole history of anti-Semitism. But again, those conversations also absolutely have to take into account the communities involved as well, because for example in York I know that
00:42:43
Speaker
I have Jewish friends who just aren't comfortable going to York, full stop. So the nuances come into it. I don't want to appear as though we're just saying this is up to the wall. No. And in fact, as it's the capital city, people have still talked about London. And I think last time we talked about this, we talked about one site that's been suggested is next to the Imperial War Museum, which has just opened new state of the art upgraded Holocaust galleries. Yeah.
00:43:10
Speaker
So, you know, there are and always have been other opportunities and it's not entirely clear why this one was being rammed through as it seemed to some people, even some, as I said, some people in the number, many people, influential people in Jewish community and why it had to be there.
00:43:31
Speaker
And as it is now, the real sadness is that whatever happens, there will be many, many fewer survivors of that awful and important event to remember and bear witness when we finally do go. I'm sure that it's something that will happen. I'm sure there will be a National Holocaust Memorial at some point in the next decade, probably. But unfortunately, it comes in the wake of this basically mess.
00:44:00
Speaker
I can't imagine our government getting involved in a mess. I just can't. It doesn't happen, Andy. Now then, I'm going to wish you a very happy Easter weekend, Andy. I know that you're having family arrive immediately, even if they haven't already arrived by the sound of some arrivals halfway through our recording there, but hopefully people
00:44:23
Speaker
fully understand that, you know, we have lives, we have lives to live, and yeah, have a great weekend, Andy. Have a great weekend, everyone else who is having a relaxing weekend this weekend. Absolutely, whether you're celebrating Easter or not, just have a happy and peaceful time. Absolutely, yeah, and until next time, take care. Bye-bye.
00:44:50
Speaker
This podcast episode has been produced by the Archaeology Podcast Network in collaboration with Archaeosoup Productions. Find out more podcasts at www.archaeologypodcastnetwork.com
00:45:06
Speaker
This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.