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Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown with Grimmsteel Games
23 Plays8 months ago
Are you ready to wrestle??? The Grimmsteel Games team joins the podcast to chat about their pro wrestling inspired board game, Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown. Who is Diabolical Dave? Do you have what it takes to compete, and win, in his mysterious wrestling circuit, the Diabolical Wrestling Council? Check out this episode to find out!
- Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown home page
- Kickstarter Campaign (launches March 26, 2024)
- Facebook group
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Transcript
Introduction to Grim Steel Games & Kickstarter Campaign
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone. Today I'm talking to you not only as the host of Should I Play It, but also as the editor-in-chief at Grim Steel Games. It's March 2024, and as of the publication of this podcast, our company is just about to embark on the Kickstarter campaign for our game, Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown.
Discussion with Partners: Is the Game Worth It?
00:00:23
Speaker
My partners, Mike Menard and Jean Ducharme are the guests on today's podcast. And we're talking about our game in the same way that we talk to everybody who joins the show, asking the critical question, why should I play this game? Should I invest my money in it?
00:00:40
Speaker
Normally, I would try to inject some kind of wisdom into this, but I feel like it's a good opportunity to thank several people who have really helped us along the way in developing this game before we launch this podcast and the game.
Acknowledgments to Contributors
00:00:54
Speaker
For starters, Giulio Fanfoni, our amazing artist from Rome, Italy, who has just blown our doors off when it comes to the art that he's delivered across the board to make this game really come to life and to pop.
00:01:08
Speaker
The same can be said for Victoria and her team at Algo Studios. They've been helping us all along the way with graphic design and really creating a visual approach to the game that has been second to none and has been echoed by other guests on this podcast who have used that studio.
00:01:27
Speaker
I want to thank Josh from Running Scared Motion Pictures who has sat down with us and created a gorgeous sizzle reel video to really elevate the game's visibility when we launch the Kickstarter next week as of this recording.
00:01:44
Speaker
John Spike from GameStormEdu and Andrew Loewen from Loewen Games, who have both been guests on the podcast, but who have also been available by email if we had questions along the production and publication path and have really just been great, great mentors and friends in the industry.
00:02:03
Speaker
And finally, the numerous and I can't even begin to list them all friends and family who have listened to all three of us talk about the game, who have play tested with us over the years, who've let us bounce ideas off of them, who have even become some of the wrestlers inside of the game as Easter eggs.
Excitement for Kickstarter Launch with Partners
00:02:22
Speaker
We want to thank you for all of your support and dedication and help along the way. It has really meant a lot to myself, to Mike and to John, and we can't thank you enough.
00:02:33
Speaker
So with that said, let's talk to the boys and hear more about Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown.
00:02:55
Speaker
All right, everybody, welcome back to Should I Play? This is a fun one. This is kind of sort of the reason why I launched this podcast and it's just an exciting time at Grim Steel Games. I have my partners, our co-founders, president and creative director of Grim Steel Games, Mike and John, on the podcast today. As we are gearing up to launch our game,
00:03:20
Speaker
Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown on Kickstarter just after this podcast launches. So guys, welcome to the podcast. We finally get to do this together. Hey. Hello. I've been looking forward to this one for months. Well, years actually, probably, if you think about it. Our Kickstarter launches on March 26, 2024, if you're listening to this in the future.
00:03:45
Speaker
I just want to talk first things first. Mike, as our president, Grim Steel Games, let's talk a little bit about how we came to be as a company.
Origin of Grim Steel Games & Game Concept
00:03:55
Speaker
Well, having known each other for several decades, we've always had common interests in the gaming sphere. Back in October, I believe of 2020, we decided that we were going to
00:04:07
Speaker
try to create some content just as a fun exercise. And around that point in time, we decided we were going to try to do something with, I think it was Pathfinder, making a module or something. And then we came up with some good ideas. And then I play fewer video games than I did when I was a child. So I prefer the board game side of things rather than the video game side of things. One night we were playing a game.
00:04:35
Speaker
And my son Tyler says, hey, wouldn't it be great if we had the pro wrestling version of this? And that was the beginning of the end for me.
00:04:44
Speaker
I remember that night very well and Tyler saying that that was a pivotal moment in the history of Grim Steel games. So let's talk about the game a little bit. And, you know, obviously you guys pitch in either side, but Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown.
Game's Name & Nostalgic Wrestling Themes
00:05:01
Speaker
One, kind of a long name. I know there's a story behind that. I think it's a fun story to tell where the name came from. But also, let's just dive right in and talk about the game.
00:05:11
Speaker
When it came down to trying to figure out what I would want in a wrestling game, I thought about, I looked into some of the games that currently existed. I didn't want to go down the role playing route because I figured that would be too long where it takes several weeks or months to come to the results. I wanted something that could be completed in one, maybe two sessions and
00:05:35
Speaker
have some light role-playing elements. So I'm a very theme-based creator. So I felt we have to make sure that this checks all the boxes for somebody in our age group going back to the 80s and 90s of wrestling. And I did my best to make sure we checked all those things off.
Design & Mechanics: Alliteration & Themes
00:05:55
Speaker
Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown was a way for me to take all the
00:06:02
Speaker
nostalgic things from the eighties and nineties periods of wrestling and put it into one place. I grew up loving wrestling, going to see wrestling matches from probably, I want to say around age seven on up watching wrestling with my father all the time. And I knew I wanted some type of long title because there are so many keywords in wrestling that get reused and I didn't want things to be confused with other products. So.
00:06:31
Speaker
I think I had recently seen a movie that had a long title and I always thought, why would they put this in the beginning? Now I know why, because you have certain words like rumble. The word rumble is a very common word to be used in wrestling. Throwdown is not, but it actually just came to me. I didn't even think about the rumble throwdown side of the title. It just, boom, it was there. The Diabolical Dave part actually came later because I was looking for a character.
00:07:01
Speaker
And like he was alliteration and I had a bunch of ideas written down and then the name Dave popped up and I said, well, why wouldn't it, why not pay homage to the person that got me into wrestling? My father, Dave. And of course I just needed to go with an alliterative D for diabolical.
00:07:20
Speaker
And that's where the name comes from. And then we decided, hey, we're gonna go, let's go full out. Just made him a character in
Gameplay Mechanics: Commentator's Role
00:07:27
Speaker
the game. He's the main promoter. He was a promoter with a mustache before Vince McMahon. So if anybody out there thinks that's what we were doing, clearly not. I like to think that.
00:07:42
Speaker
He saw it and he was like, you know what inspired by your father is going to be Diabolical Dave for a short time. Anyway, the other theme was the the greatest thing, of course, different game mechanisms are important to have. And we went through a number of different mechanisms that we take from different sources and we've refined them.
00:08:04
Speaker
playtested extensively to get things to the point where we feel everybody is involved in the game. It's a three to six player, none of this solo stuff, none of this one-on-one stuff. I'm not against it. It's just after having been disassociating from friends for so long, we wanted to create reasons to get together. You're not going to play this game online remotely, mainly because the commentator is such a
00:08:31
Speaker
unique role in the game, because it's very subjective. It's, you know, light role playing. You can do nothing with it, or you can go over the top with it, whatever you want to do. But it creates, you don't want to do that kind of thing remotely is what I'm getting at. Because if you don't have a camera on somebody, you can't see their faces. If you get too loud, you're going to overdrive the microphone. Just get together and play the game. That's my goal with having it be minimum three players.
00:09:00
Speaker
And we decided to give that commentator role some additional power beyond just running an interview. They get to choose play order. They get to choose the event. So being the commentator has benefits as well as responsibilities.
00:09:13
Speaker
So go pivoting to John. So John and I are both not as big of wrestling fans as Mike. And it's kind of been an interesting mix. I would call myself in the middle of the sphere. Mike is way over on one side, wrestling expertise. We get all, every wrestling move. I know that through experience, Mike
John's Contribution & Gameplay Balance
00:09:33
Speaker
is like, oh, that's not how it goes. That's not what it looks like. And John, you're on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to wrestling. So from a gameplay perspective,
00:09:42
Speaker
Uh, talk a little bit about the, the mechanics and the balancing in, you know, where you've been able to kind of put your fingerprints on the game. Well, but the balancing is very good. And the gameplay is excellent. It gives you a real sense of taking on the role of a wrestler and getting involved in their career. And in how it's all going to turn out, even if you're not a fan of. It's just a really fun game to play.
00:10:11
Speaker
And it drags you in very quickly. It doesn't waste much time trying to build up an interest. It just grabs you, pulls you in, and you start getting invested in your character and how their career is going to turn out. And you don't have to invest a lot of detail into that character, or you can invest a lot. So it gives the player the freedom to kind of play things at their level. If they're a hardcore role player, they can really get into that, like my brother.
00:10:41
Speaker
He knows nothing about wrestling but he loves to role play and he just loves to take on the role of the wrestler or even the commentator. As for my fingerprints on the game, I try to inject a little bit of elements from sci-fi, fantasy, little easter eggs and stuff, but also just my view of how a game should roll, how it should play, how it should all shake down by the end
00:11:11
Speaker
what you really want out of the game.
Strategic Elements & Game Appeal
00:11:13
Speaker
This is the crux of the podcast, the why should I play it part in. This is going to be kind of interesting. So and this is a part where I'm actually going to answer my own question, too. But I'll wait and let you guys answer it first. So Mike, if you're sitting down with somebody in there, you're showing them the game and you're saying, hey, look at, you know, hey, this thing's being kickstarted right now. It's coming out within, you know, within the next year, year and a half. Why should I why should I pay the money? Why should I back the project? Why should I play Diabolical Dave's normal throwdown?
00:11:41
Speaker
You should play Diabolical Dave's Rumble Throwdown, especially if you're a wrestling fan. But even if you're not, if you just want to have some fun with friends who might be wrestling fans, but maybe you're not. As John had said earlier, it pulls you in and it can play on other elements. Some people like to play with certain types of game mechanisms. We borrow many small mechanisms.
00:12:05
Speaker
from an inject into small parts of the game. Like for example, some people like collection building. So we created a gimmick that benefits from collecting certain types of gear. That's the only time it happens in the game is for that particular one, but it satisfies that niche for that person that likes that type of mechanism. From a thematic side, it's like you're watching a wrestling program from the eighties or nineties. It follows a very similar format. People have fun. You get together. That's the main thing is getting together.
00:12:34
Speaker
three people minimum, six people I would say the most. You try more, but I don't think it would work. We only give you six play mats. But this game allows you to, as John said earlier, you can create your wrestler. And sometimes it doesn't take as much because we've refined our setup to the point where you get some options, but not
00:12:55
Speaker
analysis paralysis type of options. And those options you get in play, whether you're styling your gimmick, that kind of builds your character, gives you the foundation to build on. So you don't have to come up with the entire thing without any help. We give you the sparks to build your own fire. And from that point, it just.
00:13:16
Speaker
It's crazy because you got people working together, but you're also working against each other. So it's not a co-op game, but it's not fully competitive either because you know you have to work with the people at the table in order to get further. So it's just so vast in depth and strategic. You might not think that because there's a lot of take that mechanisms in the game, but there is a lot of strategy built into it.
00:13:39
Speaker
Uh, and how you progress throughout and which titles you're going to go for and when, uh, when in your career, you're going to challenge for those titles. And, you know, which opponents you want to have, or if you're going to create stables, it's just, and you, you can play this game over and over again and not have the same scenario play out twice. That that's one of the great things that replay abilities is infinite. My opinion, especially depending on who you bring in, you could bring in the same people over and over again, and you kind of
00:14:08
Speaker
totally different results every time.
Reflection on Development & Nostalgia
00:14:10
Speaker
Very true. Yeah. Well, considering the amount of times that we've play tested it and we haven't gotten sick of it yet, I think that that's a, that's a testament to it. So John, in your words, like, how would you answer that question? Why should you play this game? Well, I mean, when it comes down to it, cause you want to have a fun time with your friends, that's really what's at the heart of it. If you love wrestling, of course that that's definite. If you love wrestling, you're going to love this game.
00:14:38
Speaker
There's no two ways about it, especially if you love wrestling from the heyday, the eighties, nineties. When you really get down to it, it's you want to have a rip roaring time with your friends. You, you want a lot of laughing, a lot of talking, a lot of smack talking. You just want to cut loose and get a little boisterous and have a great time. That's really.
00:15:03
Speaker
what makes this game, I think, attractive to people who are interested in any genre but enjoy board games. You don't really need to enjoy wrestling because the game itself is such a fun time. And for me, that's really what all board games come down to. You want to have a fun time with your friends. Yep, I hear that. All right, so I'm going to ask myself this question now.
00:15:30
Speaker
Why should we play this game? There's a couple of things, and Mike, I think you touched on it. The strategy. I love strategy games. And this game, as you look at it, and I'll actually touch on another one right now, the artwork is absolutely ridiculously gorgeous. The most fun that I've had behind this game is every time Mike shoots us a new sketch or a new drawing on Discord, and I get to see it for the first time. Like, oh, you know, this move or this character, I get to see that. And our artist, Giulio Fanfoni, and Giulio, I'm sorry if I
00:15:57
Speaker
What's your name? He is he has just been a pleasure to work with. Mike has had most of the contact with him, but his drawings have really brought this game to another level entirely. But you wouldn't anticipate just how deeply strategic this game really is until you actually sit down and you see the combinations.
00:16:17
Speaker
and you are trying to build up that perfect wrestler to take on your challengers and to beat the people at the table. And the other thing I say is, you're right, Mike, it isn't fully competitive. It's as competitive as you want it to be in the same way as it's as role-playing as you want it to be. We can sit down and really, really get dirty about trying to beat the other people at the table.
00:16:46
Speaker
But, or you can work together and see, you know, just see how, what, what the story, what kind of story unfolds, which is kind of interesting in a way. It's kind of a, it's kind of a metaphor for pro wrestling itself in that sense. And I'd say that's the last, the last piece to me that's really stood out. The Easter eggs. John's talked about it. The, I remember that happening in 1988.
00:17:11
Speaker
which dating myself here a little bit that I can remember that that far back clearly but I remember something like that happening because it is truly inspired by it's not derivative of it's inspired by 80s 90s the early aughts wrestling that really golden age of pro wrestling that we I think we may view it as the golden age because that's what we grew up watching
00:17:33
Speaker
But at the same time, it really was epic. And the entertainment value was top notch. So that's my answer for that. First time I got to answer that question on this podcast. So it's a fun one. All right.
Kickstarter Campaign Details
00:17:46
Speaker
So last question, kind of the important one for people. I mentioned earlier, we're going to Kickstarter. By the time that this launches, it'll probably just be around the corner. But Mike, talk a little bit about
00:18:01
Speaker
the plans for the Kickstarter and how to back and obviously not buy it yet, but how to back the game. So, yeah, we're launching the campaign on the 26th on Kickstarter. The pledge levels are pretty simple. We've got the base game, which will be going for 60 dollars, which is below MSRP. And we have another reward level that's going to offer two expansions with the base game. Now, these expansions
00:18:31
Speaker
are not finished yet. Our base game art is nearly complete. When I say nearly complete, I mean, it'll be done in May. And that game would be totally ready to go to production. But we wanted to add two expansions. Now, the first expansion is going to be called Breaking Cave Fabe. It has more adult themes in it.
00:18:53
Speaker
We didn't want to include in the base game, which is 14 plus. These more adult themes are 18 plus. They're not over the top or anything, but definitely something that would make adult players have more fun, especially if there are no kids around. The second expansion is going to be infernal invasion because we've had a lot of outreach from independent wrestlers saying, hey, put me in your game, put me in your game.
00:19:19
Speaker
And what we wanted to do is give all these guys and ladies one place to put everything. So there's going to be a rival faction of wrestlers coming in to invade the DWC. And that we don't have all those people yet. We're actually still taking applicants. So we will list that for you. And they're interested in being in the game. And we're not going to totally limit it to just independent wrestlers. There might be some other people that we can get in there as well. But yeah, that's the next pledge level. That's going to be $100.
00:19:47
Speaker
for all the expansions in the base game. We're going to have a retailer pledge, so that way we can get some retailers out there to stock our product. Then we're also going to have four unique tiers, higher end tiers for 500 each, where you get to create a superstar that will be included in the base game. There are four different styles in our game. There's the brawler, the flyer, the grappler, and the technician.
00:20:11
Speaker
And there's a very delicate balance of these styles. We have to have basically things work in increments of four. So there will be one of each of those wrestling style superstars available to be created. So in the end, the game will contain 40 superstars, four of which were created by a crowdfunding. And they can have your face or somebody close to you as long as we have their permission.
00:20:37
Speaker
And that's what we do. You'll notice there are a number of characters in this game. You might not know these people, but that we've, uh, we've included ourselves in this game. So we'll see that we've wrestled, uh, no pun intended with the idea of stretch goals. And we felt that we're putting everything into this, into the game. We're not trying to, there's not much more we can do with this level. We're not, you know, we're going to give you the best components we can give you. We're not, we're not looking to.
00:21:07
Speaker
set goals to get better components. We're working with a bunch of different manufacturers, getting great quotes. So we feel for the price we're selling it at, we're going to give you the best quality we can. And we're not going to have a deluxe edition of the game that's only Kickstarter specific. We really want this to be uniform for everybody.
00:21:30
Speaker
So that way, you know, when you go to the store and buy it, you're going to be buying the same thing and you won't get that, Oh man, I missed out on what they sold Kickstarter. We want everybody to have the same experience.
00:21:41
Speaker
Right on. I think that that's the important thing is actually getting everything. And even if you just grab the core game, you can be up and playing immediately. Some people who like to collect, there's card collectors out there who love to buy packs and everything. This is not for them, although I think that the cards themselves, there's like what, 240 something cards in the game. I think there are over 200 unique illustrations.
00:22:04
Speaker
And that's just the base game. So it's a collection in and of itself, as we've seen from the size of the box of our prototypes, which I have one sitting right next to me right now. So guys, got to wrap it up. I think this has been awesome. This has been a great year.
00:22:20
Speaker
journey together, just a culmination of, like you said, decades of hanging together and playing unlimited number of games that I can't remember the rules to anymore.
Conclusion & Where to Learn More
00:22:30
Speaker
If you're interested in learning more about the game, you can visit our website, grimsteel.com. It's grimwith2msteele.com. You can check out Kickstarter, look for Dialogical Dave's Rumble Throwdown. You can also find it on BoardGameGeek.
00:22:47
Speaker
follow it there and we look forward to running through this Kickstarter and Hopefully meeting some of the people who who buy the game and playing with them in the future Mike John. Thanks a lot and Don't forget to check out our Facebook page, too. Yes, that's right. Check out our Facebook page to look for that Michael. They have a dedicated group where we have Over 1600 members, I believe right now
00:23:14
Speaker
Excellent. Good point. Join. Come talk to us and we will catch you on the next episode of Should I Play It? Thanks for listening.